Ripping music to computer

[michael_w]

Wasn't quite sure where to put this one but anyways... I just reformatted my computer and I'd like to stick most of my music back on it eventually. My question was which format would provide the best sound quality without making the files massive. I realize you can do things like use exact audio copy and create near lossless files but at ~500 mb a cd and with a collection of about 200 cd's I don't think that'll work well. I only have 160 gb hard drive and I'd like to keep some space for tv recordings and dvd's. Before the reformat I just did mp3's at 320 kb/s and they weren't too bad but I was just curious if there was a better format at about the same file size. I'll be using iTunes to play back the music.

Thanks,
Michael

[Josh-S]

well, that depends on you tastes in codecs. I use MP3's at 320 like you did but theres more to it then that. The software you use will make a big diferance in the quality of the rip more so then the format. I personaly stay away from WMA and the likes. *.oggs are very nice. But its not all that comon so I dont recomend you rip to it. Also whats your sound card? If you are lucky enought to have a Creative X-fi it uses hardware mp3 encoding so its far better then any software ripers.

If I were you I'd try WinLame http://winlame.sourceforge.net/ I'm shure otheres here will coment on the Encoder. Also it does ogg's :p

[audiobliss]

What's the scoop on .oggs? My media player will play them, but how would I rip to a .ogg file? And what's the difference in a software and hardwoare encoder?

[Josh-S]

*.ogg is kinda rare for now, but its a profesional format. It is said that it maintains a higher fedelity. And I can vouch for that. MP3's sound flater to me kinda dull incomparison. This linky http://www.vorbis.com/faq/ will explain all about ogg. Hope it helps! :) You can rip to ogg's by using suporting encoders like the one I posted above.

Now to the hard question. Creatives X-fi uses some new algarithums (soo cant spell) that pruduses a clairity like I have never herd before! It doesnt use losse software codecs and the like but instead its all done directly on the chip. The details arnt really known yet since creative isnt forthcoming on such things. Never the less its truly amazing what that sound card can do.

[michael_w]

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll just stick with a more common format so that I leave more options open for messing with the files (put on my pocket pc, import into other programs). This isn't for critical listening or anything, but more of a massive library on shuffle for background / doing homework music :p .

I'll give the winLame a shot and see how that goes.

Thanks,
Michael

[Josh-S]

good choice ;) If you have any problems with the program feal free to PM me with questions or posty in thready... :p

[audiobliss]

Cool. I might have to start ripping in .ogg format just to try it out. How much does that card sell for? Is it also a great sound card for playback?

Thanks for the information.

[audiobliss]

After reading that link on .ogg, I think I'm sold, lol.

Is there a progam that will rip into .ogg format that you would recommend over the winLame that you linked to?

Thanks!

[Josh-S]

Is currently the best. There are 4 product lines and I'll give you a breife run threw.

X-Fi Xtream music = Base card, doesn't have the onboard 64 megs of ram used for gaming (worthless to date anyway) $100 - $125

X-Fi Plat. = Includes a breakout box for the front of your PC with optical in and out for an added $70 bucks!

X-Fi Fatality= Includes 64 megs of ram and a light on the card with the fatality symbol = $250 and not worth it

X-Fi (cant remember) = Focused on home theater users, very expensive! Only difference is it has an external decoder and 7.1 output processor on the decoder versions the onboard card.


There curently the best simply due to there MASSIVE on board proc.
http://www.creative.com/products/welcome.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&

heres where we PC geeks drule "51M transistor CPU (OMG) APU/10,000MIPS" In lamence terms thats one hell of an audio prosesor! with a s/n ratio of 109dB :)

[audiobliss]

So out of that line up you'd say the X-Fi Xtream music would probably be the best, eh? Interesting.

I read about it on compusa's website and it never said a thing about .ogg.

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=333984&pfp=BROWSE

[audiobliss]

I see that there are a few different versions of WinLame availabel. Which one should I try out?

[Josh-S]

Its the best bang for the buck out of the whole line up. But it wont rip to oggs by defult. You will need to use the Lame codec first. once its instaled into your system it will then reconize it as a selectable format

[audiobliss]

Hmm. So it still uses software.

[audiobliss]

So I just installed WinLame and I'm playing around with it...does it just encode files? It won't actually rip from a CD? So I should rip in .wav or something and then encode it in .ogg?

[cfrizz]

I rip cds to my pc all the time using Windows Media. Just put the disc in & tell it to rip & specify where you want it to go. Then I burn the tracks onto another cd. I have a blast doing it, and have a nice collection of discs at work to listen to rather than the radio.

[audiobliss]

^^ That's the latest way I've been doing it. Before that I used EAC to rip them in .wav format. However, that took up a bunch of space and made it difficult to send them to folks through AIM.

[Josh-S]

So I just installed WinLame and I'm playing around with it...does it just encode files? It won't actually rip from a CD? So I should rip in .wav or something and then encode it in .ogg?ohhh.. look at that. Winlame used to suport riping in its earlyer sourcsforge days. Thats kinda gay now. Here you go CDex http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=567&package_id=584&release_id=183719 It also uses the Lame encoder. and is very popular. but there main page is down.Google it later on, the above link is a direct download. When I try to view the home page I get

"MySQL Has Reported Errors
Error Number: 2003

Error Information:
Can't connect to MySQL server on 'mysql.sourceforge.net' (111)
TwkDDb Version 0.3a "

[audiobliss]

I just downloaded and installed that version. When I double clicked the icon to start it, an error popped up and said:

Failed to load the wnaspi32.dll driver!
Use the "Native NT SCSI library" driver option instead?

What's that mean?

[Josh-S]

uhh... ummm... errr...

*runs from thread! :D

[audiobliss]

hahahah!

I'm a-gonna click yes and see what happens.

[Josh-S]

That one was way beyond me bro. :D

[audiobliss]

Well, I ripped my new Bob Seger CD in .ogg format! And foobar2000 is playing it just fine! One of the songs is 5:33 and takes up 17.9mb.

[Josh-S]

hows the fidelity?

[audiobliss]

Well so far I'm just using it as background music and through my receiver and Scott speakers, so I'm definitely not listening critically. But I'll give it a more critical listen tomorrow afternoon.

[punk-roc]

EAC will rip to .mp3, thats how i rip my cds...

[audiobliss]

Oh, it will? I never knew that. I thought it required another encoder, so I also downloaded lame to use that to convert the .wav files to mp3.

[michael_w]

Interesting... I might just try eac to rip mp3's and compare those with ones of the same file size ripped straight from iTunes. In the meantime I'll be waiting for audiobliss to fiddle and work out the bugs :D

[audiobliss]

Now, the thing is that EAC doesn't rip them to mp3. It rips them to .wav files, which is what's on the CD. I used Lame, I think, to convert them to mp3's after I ripped them. However, I quickly stopped converting them and just using the .wav files as I have a 200gb HD and didn't need the space.

So far I'm pleased with the WinLame Josh-s linked to in the end. You put in your email address for the CDDB querry, and all you do is select what format and quality level you want the music in, pop in the CD, and it goes to work. I have it set to encode in 'ogg vorbis' at a quality level of 10 which is the best (about 400kbps). It's a little slower than using WMP to rip to WMA's, but it's not too slow.

[Sami]

HD's are cheap so I would just add another to your computer. 300-400GB drive will go a long way. Other options are to add an external drive (external USB case with IDE-adapter will be cheaper than already assembled drives) or a file server, in case adding an internal drive is not an option.

[michael_w]

I might just do that... So far the 160 gig western digital I have now has done just fine but now that I have a tv tuner card I'll be recording a lot of tv. Add that to my music and the space I need for making copies of dvds and my extra space might dissapear pretty quickly. I think I'll have to just deal with it for now and add another later because my computer desperatly needs another 512mb of ram and a video card first. It's a good idea for the christmas list though ;)

[mldennison]

i have been using cdex when ripping to mp3 for a while now, i am pretty sure that it does ogg as well. it is very simple to use and i have had no problems with it. i was previously using EAC to tediously do the ripping and then something else for the encoding but honestly the only time i ever heard a difference was when the cd skipped in which case i would just re-do the song.

[jcaut]

I didn't read all the way through the thread, so I apologize if you've already got the info you need.

You can read all about different lossy and lossless compression formats HERE (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=idx). I think the general concensus is that, among the lossy compression schemes, .mpc generally gives the best sound quality at moderate bitrates. I find .ogg to be good as well, and possibly better than .mp3.

I keep a lot of music on the computer too, and though I don't use it for critical listening, I still like for it to sound good. I experimented with some alternative formats, but I keep coming back to .mp3. After all, you're going to have to use a lossy compression if you want reasonable file sizes, and you're not going to use it for critical listening... IMO, .mp3 fits the bill. The upside is it's playable on so many things nowadays, while most of the others aren't, yet.

Here's what I do:

EAC is the best ripping program, IMO, if you are concerned more about the quality of files you create than outright speed. You can go directly to just about any format you want; You don't have to go .wav first and then convert. You just have to know how to set it up. Read on the hydrogenaudio forum (the link I posted above), in the MP3 sub-forum about the recommended LAME compile and where to get it. Download the zip file and extract it. Copy the "lame enc.dll" file and paste it into the directory where EAC is. Launch EAC. On the EAC tab in the upper left, choose "compression options". Under "Wave format" you should now be able to choose "LAME MPEG Layer-3 encoder v3.**v*.**" Use sample format: Preset:Standard. Check "Add ID3 tag" if you want, and check "Do not write wav extension to file". Then in the "File extension for headerless files" put ".mp3". Now just load your CD and click the MP3 icon and you should rip and convert to .mp3 directly. There are some other configuration options with regard to naming and directories and so forth, but they're not hard to figure out.

Preset standard will produce VBR files that average around 200kbps, so the file sizes are reasonable. They sound quite good to me, too.

[michael_w]

Cool thanks Jason.

I haven't really tried anything yet because I've been super busy this last week but I'll try some comparisons going and post my findings.

[cmy330go]

I know I am late to this thread. But for what it's worth I ripped all my music using iTunes and the AAC (basicaly MP4) format at 160k. I finally decided this after much testing between formats and rates. I found that AAC sounded quite a bit better than an equal or higher rate MP3, and took up the same space. I'm not saying that ripping above 160 does not sound better, but if I run too high of a sample rate it will shorten battery life when playing on my ipod. However in addition to listening on my Ipod I also have a pc connected to my HT system so that I can access the same music files over the network. I must say that the sound is not the least bit offensive. Little or none of the typical tinny, choppy sound of mp3s.

If it is not too late I would heavily recommend trying AAC. As you probably already know itunes is a free download (http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/).

Good Luck
Have fun ripping your library!

[michael_w]

So far I've been using EAC with lame doing the mp3 encoding. It's pretty decent and the file sizes are very good. It takes a little longer to rip the at least I know the rip is a quality one (well for the file size and vbr).

I'll try some other ways of ripping and maybe change ways but for now I'll just stick with EAC and lame. Thanks for the great responses people!

[audiobliss]

If I wanted to use EAC for ripping, but wanted to rip to .ogg files, how could I 'integrate' an .ogg encoder with EAC? Like you said do with LAME, putting it in the directory with EAC, etc...

Thanks!

[heiney9]

Flac files are compressed but ARE NOT Lossy. IMO, this is the best way to rip music to your hard drive. FLAC files are roughly 20-30% smaller than regualr .WAV and .CDA. I won't use any kind of software that is a lossy format (yeck).

Here are some links to get you started.

http://flac.sourceforge.net/

http://members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm

http://sourceforge.net/projects/flac/

http://toritraders.com/guides/flac.htm

H9