The Psychotic Rant of a Former Audiophile

[Early B.]

Just got off my 3-month hiatus from the forum and thought I’d take a moment to rant about this hobby and hopefully get flamed for it so I can feel nostalgic. Here goes...

Every so often we should take a critical look at ourselves and ask, “What the f*ck am I doing?”

Lately I’ve been wondering why I engage in critical listening in a feeble attempt to improve my system and make it appear more similar to a sound that doesn’t exist. Hell, if you ask me what I want my system to ultimately sound like, I couldn’t tell you. And even if I could, my opinion would change tomorrow.

Here’s the stupidest thing of all -- we constantly compare the sound of audio components or systems to live music. However, when we go to a concert, we don’t analyze the sound in the same manner that we evaluate our audio systems.

If you listen to most live music, especially a rock concert, you’ll notice that it’s often difficult to clearly distinguish each instrument, and even more difficult to clearly hear the vocals. Nevertheless, it was great concert, wasn't it? In fact, those issues aren’t particularly important to most of us. Have you ever walked away from a rock concert disappointed because each instrument wasn’t clearly discernable? But if we don’t hear a high degree of instrumental clarity in our audio systems, it’s time for an upgrade or a tweak.

A live performance is both a visual and auditory experience, and I dare say it is more stimulating visually than auditory because most live performances sound crappy. Our stereo systems can never duplicate the emotional and visual effects of a live performance, so comparisons between live music and 2-channel audio borders on insanity. Ultimately, the only thing about a great 2-channel system is the feeling the music gives you, not the soundstage, imaging, and all that other audiophile-type bullshit.

If you want to determine whether or not your system is a good one, there’s only one major consideration – how does the music make you feel? Because any other pointless critique merely masks the fact that you aren’t really enjoying your music.

Here’s my latest battle cry -- “NO MORE UPGRADES. NO MORE TWEAKS. I DON’T WANNA BE AN AUDIOPHILE GEEK.”

Say it with me…

[Dennis Gardner]

Please send your Jolida my way, since your Pioneer will no doubt be adequate in your new found "average is good enough for me" world. ;)

[polkatese]

Timely rant. Btw, welcome back!. As Art Dudley ranted on the latest Stereophile "As We See It": Music lovers buy torch songs from their favorite singers-Bessie, Billie, whomever-because that's what they want to hear. Audiophiles buy the same songs from Jacintha because they're well recorded...." how true!

[Tour2ma]

Wheeew... Thought for a minute this was going to be another Lazurusman thread...

There's live music (Symphony Orch, etc.) and then there's amplified music that's played live (Rock concerts, etc.). IMO it's the characteristics of the venue that create the live sensation...

I'll pass on the pledge, EB... welcome back.

[dorokusai]

Hearing is believing.

[lomic]

I see music live to experience it, and listen at home to enjoy it :D

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Well in my "vast" experience I've found that buying a pair of speakers you ENJOY - while having detail is better than buying an extremely detailed speaker you can only listen to a few songs on.

The more detailed you get... the limited your song selection gets. If your trying to find the "perfect" setup - your going to hang yourself with your own craziness.

[danger boy]

Just got off my 3-month hiatus from the forum and thought I’d take a moment to rant about this hobby and hopefully get flamed for it so I can feel nostalgic. Here goes...

Every so often we should take a critical look at ourselves and ask, “What the f*ck am I doing?”

Lately I’ve been wondering why I engage in critical listening in a feeble attempt to improve my system and make it appear more similar to a sound that doesn’t exist. Hell, if you ask me what I want my system to ultimately sound like, I couldn’t tell you. And even if I could, my opinion would change tomorrow.

Here’s the stupidest thing of all -- we constantly compare the sound of audio components or systems to live music. However, when we go to a concert, we don’t analyze the sound in the same manner that we evaluate our audio systems.

If you listen to most live music, especially a rock concert, you’ll notice that it’s often difficult to clearly distinguish each instrument, and even more difficult to clearly hear the vocals. Nevertheless, it was great concert, wasn't it? In fact, those issues aren’t particularly important to most of us. Have you ever walked away from a rock concert disappointed because each instrument wasn’t clearly discernable? But if we don’t hear a high degree of instrumental clarity in our audio systems, it’s time for an upgrade or a tweak.

A live performance is both a visual and auditory experience, and I dare say it is more stimulating visually than auditory because most live performances sound crappy. Our stereo systems can never duplicate the emotional and visual effects of a live performance, so comparisons between live music and 2-channel audio borders on insanity. Ultimately, the only thing about a great 2-channel system is the feeling the music gives you, not the soundstage, imaging, and all that other audiophile-type bullshit.

If you want to determine whether or not your system is a good one, there’s only one major consideration – how does the music make you feel? Because any other pointless critique merely masks the fact that you aren’t really enjoying your music.

Here’s my latest battle cry -- “NO MORE UPGRADES. NO MORE TWEAKS. I DON’T WANNA BE AN AUDIOPHILE GEEK.”

Say it with me…


You are correct. There HAS to be a certain point where we just take a break from swapping/tweaking and just enjoy what we've worked to put together. I think sometimes we spend more time doing that then actually enjoing what we've put together.

So what if for 30 days you don't upgrade or tweak this or that.. maybe in the long run... it doesn't need it. Is that even possible? Yeah it is. Everyone of us has something they are currently contemplating changing or upgrading. C'mon admit it. ha ha ha.

Just sit back for a minute and listen to the rig you've put together and enjoy it this Thanksgiving with your family and friends. I'm sure they'll be impressed with your knowledge of electronics and the time and effort you've put into tweaking your system. :)

[janmike]

I find that if sound quality is not on their list, the music coming from a $20K system and a Radio Shack all-in-one unit sound the same. I've had people listen to what I have (by no means a $20K system) and those who are remotely connected with the audio world comment on the clarity. For the others, its noise and it would not matter what the source was. I think this audio thing is a learned behaviour. Like a fine wine, a 15 year old white cheddar (my god that's good), or a high-end audio system, it takes time and experience to learn to appreciate the finer details. Exposure is the only solution to mastery.

[TroyD]

I've never used live as the standard for comparison. Live and recorded is apples and oranges.

Critical listening makes up a small percentage of my listening time....my choice of gear is more aimed at being musical as opposed to accurate.

BDT

[reeltrouble1]

Hi Early,

Well I agree to a point about visual rock concerts, they are about the music though, let the band stop playing and zip the magic is gone.

I dont do to much rock anymore on my rigs, I find myself being drawn to acoustical music, jazz, classical, even listening to one well played instrument, close my eyes and it just floats. Well placed vocals, even accapelo, like AK doing her thing. The string instruments are still my favorites, but its all good.

RT1

[jmierzur]

Hi Early B,

Welcome back.

As for myself, my goal is to have my system sound like a live performance. My choice of performance differs somewhat from yours, as I would select the performance of a symphony orchestra. The season tickets we held four seasons ago in the Dress Circle (best seats in the house) before the children were born provided a detailed, dynamic, etc. soundstage I would dearly love to duplicate in my own room. That is my goal.

I can not remember the last time I was at a rock concert. And in all honesty, I do not miss the experience as I have no desire to see the big names as they roll through town, nor do I care to duplicate that experience in-house.

I have always enjoyed listening to music regardless of the source. Music from a clock radio moves me as much as from a live performance. OK, not quite as much, but you get my point.

I have never been one to constantly flip components so I will also pass on your pled.

[jdhdiggs]

For me, my system is now "Good Enough" as I don't have any desire to upgrade anything right now. For my ears, everything is very involving and nice so I don't see the point. This is part of the reason for me posting less and less hear as I don't have the upgrade bug as much. I still read the forum, but without really trying to push for a "what's next" idea, it's hard to post a lot.

Anyway, I just like the way my system sounds. Who cares if it sounds live or not.

[BlueMDPicker]

IMO it's the characteristics of the venue that create the live sensation...

Give that man a cigar! Nevermind, he took another pledge. :)

IMO, a recording can have a very much live dynamic. It's more about the SQ of the source than the gear to me. Talented recording engineers can put you there. People like David Manley and David Z can count me as a loyal follower regardless of the genre they're working in.

Nice to hear from you, EB.

[cfrizz]

Welcome back Early! And I think you & Danger have the best outlooks with regards to this crazy hobby of ours!

[PolkThug]

I just want my system to reproduce what is on the source CD/DVD the best it can, within my budget.

[Early B.]

I just want my system to reproduce what is on the source CD/DVD the best it can, within my budget.

Perfectly practical. I nominate PT's statement as the quote of the week.

In the past I've been guilty of venturing beyond my budget in an effort achieve sonic nirvana. The maddness has gotta stop. The good thing, though, is that I'm enjoying my music and I rarely do the critical listening thing 'cause that's what creates the desire to tweak, mod, and upgrade.

[shack]

To each their own.

1) For some the hobby is all about the journey...the thrill of the hunt...finding and assembling the rig. The gear, the cables, the tubes are what get them fired up. The end result (the music) is often just the pleasant by-product of the process.

2) For others it is the sound and the assembling of the gear is merely an exercise of necessity in trying to obtain that sound. These are the "critical listeners" or audiophiles. They probably have several versions of the same recording looking for that elusive "perfect sound". The gear is very important as it relates to obtaining the sound, but is expendable if it fails to provide nirvana.

3) Then there are the "music lovers" who may have had the same rig for years but are constantly buy new CDs, vinyl, tapes and have hundreds, if not thousands of recordings. Or maybe they have the same few recordings that they listen to over and over...but it is truely about the music.

4) Then there are the "collectors" of gear and music. A subcategory of the first and 3rd segments. The hunt is the thing but...instead of replacing a rig once comlplete they simply get another one and can't part with the predecessor. Finding that rare Japanese pressing of KC and the Sunshine Band is the goal.

While there are those that fall strictly in the categories above...most of us have elements of each that attract us to this hobby. A person can be obsessive, casual, passionate or whatever about the gear, the music, the sound etc... They can like it all or just some of the aspects of the hobby. It's all good. We can constantly change the way we choose to do audio or we can remain the same for our lifetime. Do whatever you enjoy and don't criticize others for the way they pursue the hobby. It's their money, their time, their enjoyment....(just as it is yours) and after all it's not life or death....IT IS ONLY A HOBBY. Just have fun.

[Early B.]

Great post, Shack.

[HBombToo]

Timely rant. Btw, welcome back!. As Art Dudley ranted on the latest Stereophile "As We See It": Music lovers buy torch songs from their favorite singers-Bessie, Billie, whomever-because that's what they want to hear. Audiophiles buy the same songs from Jacintha because they're well recorded...." how true!

I read this also and after reading it again I remain clueless as to what it means... Help out a dumb guy please.

Henry

[McLoki]

Why we do the things we do…..

I really like my audio system. It sounds great, looks nice in my living room, and my wife doesn’t hate it. I even get occasional validation from other Club Polk members that it sounds good. ( always nice to get a compliment from your peers) so why do I want to upgrade? (current plans are to ditch the AVR that I am using as a pre-amp and purchase an actual pre/pro and I would LOVE to upgrade my front speakers to SDA’s if I can convince my wife they belong in the living room. :D )

Read any review of a decent pre/pro and it will say how it makes the sound travel seamlessly from the front speakers to the rear. It sonically transports you to the scene you are watching. I really like the sound of my system, but it has never once tried to convince me I was standing in the middle of a holo-deck from Star-Trek. No matter how good it sounds, I can never feel the rain on my face or the crunch of gravel under my feet like these sonic miracles the reviewers have, seem to do.

You can get 6 Polk R-15’s and a cheap AVR for under $300-$400. The move from TV speakers to surround with Polks cheapest speakers is HUGE. Move from that to my LSi7 – SVS – Onkyo – Cinepro setup and you will notice the difference, but it is still not as huge as that first jump into surround sound.

I keep upgrading looking for that next big revelation. The wonder of “wow – I thought I had a good system but damn where was that hiding?” I am well into the land of diminishing returns with my system. Most of my upgrades from this point on will be of marginal differences. I will not be able to have my wife pick any movie, throw it in, and with almost any part of the movie have her say that was “$500-$1000 well spent” like I could have with the very first (and cheaper) upgrade mentioned above.

She thinks I am mental for wanting to spend this kind of money to upgrade a very good sounding system. For me it is no longer a sound system though it is a hobby.

Changes are for the sake of change, just to see what happens. I want to experience not just read about what works and what doesn’t. I don’t care about some reviewers holo-deck audio system – I just want to know if it works or doesn’t and recreate it (for a fraction of the price if possible) in my living room.

My name is Michael Hand and I am an audioholic. Thankfully I have found a number of others to share my disease with. (and even a few I can look at and say “see, I’m not really that bad…” :D )

Michael

BTW - welcome back to the fold Early B. :)

[McLoki]

Shack - Great post. very well written and thought out.

Michael

[madmax]

we constantly compare the sound of audio components or systems to live music. However, when we go to a concert, we don’t analyze the sound in the same manner that we evaluate our audio systems.

I do. ;)

Now, sit back, listen some more and get back on the upgrade train!

madmax

[Ricardo]

At different levels, there is ALWAYS something that sounds better than what you have. As long as you don't know this, you are fine, but the moment you realize that you can actually make your system sound better, you just need to go for it.

At least that's how it works for me; I was really happy with my HT setup until I listened to McLoki's.....I don't care much for his LSi's vs my RTi's....or even the 500w per channel power because I think my Denon gives me all I need (I actually tried going with separate amps and did not find it worth the additional cost..so I returned them)..BUT.....his sub...I just cannot take that out of my mind.....I was so happy with my PB10-ISD...damn!!!

Anyone knows if SVS will take my PB10 for an upgrade????


:D :D :D :D :D

[criverajr]

Polksters,

I have mixed feelings althought I like my 2 systems it seems like their is no easy way to stay away from the upgrade paths of this HOBBY. I have also slowed down in upgrading as I can honestly say that my systems to me atleast sound really, really good. I have gone from the bottom end of the polk series to the top end and can say that their is a difference but is their something I am missing I don't know until I find it. I have also said to myself that I will not upgrade just to upgrade, example: I purchased a tube pre and slid it into my system, rolled some tubes and just didn't like the sound to my SS setup, different strokes I guess. I can say that I tried it and it was not for me. I was going to pull the trigger on an SVS and then recalibrated my system after the new home was built and I have found it to sound quite nice just the way it is. I can't say I won't buy anything else but I think I have gotten over the "impulse" but part of this HOBBY.

CRj

[Tour2ma]

Finding that rare Japanese pressing of KC and the Sunshine Band is the goal.Do you know hwere I can get a copy? :D

[shack]

Do you know hwere I can get a copy? :D

You can borrow mine if you take good care of it.

[organ]

Welcome back!

I agree with a lot of the things you say. I go to see live shows quite often. I remember my first concert. I came home and told myself, that's the kind of sound I want. Soundstaging and depth took a dive down my list and dynamics/slam/clarity/effortlessness became my priority. That's why I ended up with the gear I have now. When I go to concerts, I'm very happy because my system sounds so close. My favorite spot is front row center. That's where you hear the monitors more than the PA. More clarity up there.

I'm glad I was able to find my sound so soon because if I didn't I'd be broke.

Maurice

[PolkThug]

I read this also and after reading it again I remain clueless as to what it means... Help out a dumb guy please.

Henry


I think its kind of like me buying a Telarc SACD. I bought it just because I wanted to hear what well recorded music sounded like.

[reeltrouble1]

PT,

Feel free to send me all that non well recorded music, I am in one of those, Oh I got new stuff phases where you listen to every cd you have!! So what did you think of the Telarc??

RT1

PS--Madmax and TroyD Rock. High on my Christmas Card list.

[opus]

Why we do the things we do…..

I really like my audio system. It sounds great, looks nice in my living room, and my wife doesn’t hate it. I even get occasional validation from other Club Polk members that it sounds good. ( always nice to get a compliment from your peers) so why do I want to upgrade? (current plans are to ditch the AVR that I am using as a pre-amp and purchase an actual pre/pro and I would LOVE to upgrade my front speakers to SDA’s if I can convince my wife they belong in the living room. :D )

Read any review of a decent pre/pro and it will say how it makes the sound travel seamlessly from the front speakers to the rear. It sonically transports you to the scene you are watching. I really like the sound of my system, but it has never once tried to convince me I was standing in the middle of a holo-deck from Star-Trek. No matter how good it sounds, I can never feel the rain on my face or the crunch of gravel under my feet like these sonic miracles the reviewers have, seem to do.

You can get 6 Polk R-15’s and a cheap AVR for under $300-$400. The move from TV speakers to surround with Polks cheapest speakers is HUGE. Move from that to my LSi7 – SVS – Onkyo – Cinepro setup and you will notice the difference, but it is still not as huge as that first jump into surround sound.

I keep upgrading looking for that next big revelation. The wonder of “wow – I thought I had a good system but damn where was that hiding?” I am well into the land of diminishing returns with my system. Most of my upgrades from this point on will be of marginal differences. I will not be able to have my wife pick any movie, throw it in, and with almost any part of the movie have her say that was “$500-$1000 well spent” like I could have with the very first (and cheaper) upgrade mentioned above.

She thinks I am mental for wanting to spend this kind of money to upgrade a very good sounding system. For me it is no longer a sound system though it is a hobby.

Changes are for the sake of change, just to see what happens. I want to experience not just read about what works and what doesn’t. I don’t care about some reviewers holo-deck audio system – I just want to know if it works or doesn’t and recreate it (for a fraction of the price if possible) in my living room.

My name is Michael Hand and I am an audioholic. Thankfully I have found a number of others to share my disease with. (and even a few I can look at and say “see, I’m not really that bad…” :D )

Michael

BTW - welcome back to the fold Early B. :)

Well said. From now on you speak for me. Anyone has any questions for me pm McLoki. :D

Your line about being a hobby is so true. My friends all have Harleys. I have a Home Theater. I can't afford to do both so I choose the hobby that I don't have to wear a helmet.(SVS notwithstanding)

[organ]

My friends all have Harleys. I have a Home Theater. I can't afford to do both so I choose the hobby that I don't have to wear a helmet.(SVS notwithstanding)

Don't know about your friends but my friends look at me as 'weird' for spending all my money on audio gear. They think it's a complete waste of money. I look at their hobbies the same way too:D.

BUT, I always love the look on their faces when they see and hear my system for the first time:).

Maurice

[polksda]

Re: the "live experience", I've been at far too many rock concerts that simply sounded like crap. I much prefer a well-shot and well-mixed DVD (Toto - Live in Amsterdam, or Heart - Live in Seattle, for example) to an actual concert. The sound is SOOOOOO much cleaner in my living room...

[McLoki]

I much prefer a well-shot and well-mixed DVD (Toto - Live in Amsterdam, or Heart - Live in Seattle, for example) to an actual concert. The sound is SOOOOOO much cleaner in my living room...
Tickets are much cheaper as well. :)

Michael

[cmy330go]

Just have to throw in my thoughts.

First of all, my goal with my system is to achieve a live sound. But not live in the sense of a concert. More "live" as if the musicians are sitting in my room.

Second I do get picky about sound at concerts. I walked out of a Blues Traveler show once because the sound was so loud and distorted that I couldn't understand a word. On the other hand I saw Harry Connick Jr. last year and the sound was AMAZING. I could hear every detail. Even his foot tapping under the piano!!!! :eek:

Also here is a helpful tip to any concert goers, especially rockers. Take a pair of earplugs with you. You will be amazed how much more detail you will hear. Plus you will actually be able to hear your buddies when they are talking to you. And one of the biggest advantages is the lack of ringing ears after the show. After all you don't want to ruin those audiophile ears.

BTW.....All in all I agree with Early. It is too easy to get wrapped up in endless tweaking. We all need to step back from the constant mods and actually enjoy the great systems we have put together! ;)

Welcome back Early and Happy Listening Everyone :)

[danger boy]

Re: the "live experience", I've been at far too many rock concerts that simply sounded like crap. I much prefer a well-shot and well-mixed DVD (Toto - Live in Amsterdam, or Heart - Live in Seattle, for example) to an actual concert. The sound is SOOOOOO much cleaner in my living room...

True. i was at Heart Live in Seattle. the DVD has much better audio on it. See if you can find me in the crowd? LOL i'm way in back off to the right of the stage as you're looking from the stage. ;)

[mantis]

For me I have loved music and Instruments since I wa a kid. My mom sings, grandparent play piano and organ, mom plays organ and piano, they bought me a guitar when I was 9. I also learned piano off of the guitar.
I had my first record player, tuner and seperate speakers when I was 7. I remember buying Grease, Saturday Night Fever(moovie soundtracks) and St.Ppeppers Heart club band(Beatles) records, then it moved to Kiss. My mom was heavy into Disco and Barbra Striesand, no naturally I followed. Later Pop and Punk came into my life, my dad hooked me up with my first 8 track, tape deck, receiver and speakers to play Niel Young, The Who, More Beatles and now Rock 80, Billy Joel, and more Kiss.

Over the next years, I played in bands, performed live in my uncles band when I was 12 at the Trenton City Gardens(due to is guitar player getting really sick) I learned all there music in less then a week and performed that Saturday night.

Music has always been in my soul and movies. I was a huge Movie fan. I loved going to the movies. I saw Grease and Saturday night fever(snuck in I was under age) the same day.

Once I tasted a higher level of sound , picture or complete experience, I started my quest to own it. Then once I thought I was there, someting else came along and made me want to go to the next level.

Today I wonder if I lost my way. I pursue the gear way more then the software. I can go to Best Buy and walk out with nothing. Purpose for going there was to buy a new CD and DVD.Take me to a hi fi shop and I can write a list at the door step. Even in here, I have called "the flavor of the month" Mabye not directly at me but the products I'm into at the time. I think about that statement from time to time and wonder.I can't remember the last time I seriously searched for new music for myself. But I can tell you how many times I have been on the Audioquest website in a day.Sad but very true.Even worse, I'm considering upgrading my seperates already. I don't own a subwoofer but I want new seperates. Somethings wrong with that.

I work in the field of which my hobby is the same. I believe this has help my sickness grow. I see all the new gear, meet the engineers who build this stuff,go to the shows and get trained every few months. Work with alot of gear that I can't afford but have a deep desire to own. I try to plan ways t get what I want and find them.

I started out as a music and movie lover and turned into a Gear head.

Not that long ago, I got out of it for awhile. I fade in and out but have that burning desire. I got myself into other things, cars, Outdoors, mountian biking,got back into training martial arts. So I kinda but the audio hobby on the sideline, really never completed my system and left it at that. Now that it's getting coder, I'm spending more time inside, I find myself right back where I was. As all of you know I'm fascinated with wire.Now that Tweeter got rid of Monster, Audioquest is all I think about. It's new, it's wire I really have limited experience with and I want to see if it's better then what I own.

In many ways I agree with the opening post. I can really relate.

Dan

[BobMcG]

I see music live to experience it, and listen at home to enjoy it :D

Absolutely!

[BobMcG]

Don't know about your friends but my friends look at me as 'weird' for spending all my money on audio gear. They think it's a complete waste of money. I look at their hobbies the same way too:D.

BUT, I always love the look on their faces when they see and hear my system for the first time:).

Maurice

Priceless isn't it? :D

[reeltrouble1]

yep, sure is :D . Thats why it does not matter the cost. How can I put a value on something that connects with well, the soul?? I love the gear and tinkering with it, but in the end its about the music for me. Always has been, cant say I think that will ever change. When I add a new piece I will listen to the "gear" for a while, but I always seem to end up back listening to the music after a short time.

RT1

[steveinaz]

It can get frustrating at times, hell 2 years ago I was about to sell everything, hunt down all the stuff I had (and LOVED) in the 70's/early 80's and be done with it. Like most any hobby, the more high-tech you get, the more the flaws show.

What snapped everything into focus? 2 things; (1) I weaned myself off the treble knob. (2) I forgot the oldest/best rule of audio---build your system around your speakers. Of course, where I live makes it very difficult to audition anything, so alot of money and trial & error went down before finding my speaker.

If I would have done the above early on, I would have saved lots of money and frustration.

Live & learn.

[daniel_paul_]

I live for the clubs and concerts that are mind-numbingly loud, but leave no ringing in your ears after you leave. That is where my musical quest started. Loud and Clear.

[danger boy]

why did this thread ever die? it's good to sometimes question your addiction to this hobby :)

[Zero]

Rolfcopter @ Early.

[pearsall001]

Hell EB, I didn't even know you were gone for awhile! I was too busy tweaking & spending money on my system to pay attention!! You make some good points though. The bottom line is that we all pursue things in a different way.

It's a fun thing this hobby of ours & the path we choose to take is the one that keeps us happy & content at the end of the day.

[treitz3]

Hehe, look at the date of the thread.

[pearsall001]

Hehe, look at the date of the thread.

Well, I take it Early's back by now!! Calling EB, calling EB !! :D

[rskarvan]

I think the objective should be to match the "studio" sound. Live sound isn't nearly as good.

Anyway, I think I have an exceptionally accurate system. I love the sound of a really good recording. That makes me smile ear-to-ear. However, accuracy is both a blessing and a curse. All the limitations captured on the CD from a bad recording are infuriating. Almost unlistenable.

My system never fails to reveal exceptional detail. But, some music doesn't benefit from close examination. The good is incredible. The bad is absolutely horrible. And, mostly, the middle is a little disappointing.

[bikezappa]

Just have to throw in my thoughts.

First of all, my goal with my system is to achieve a live sound. But not live in the sense of a concert. More "live" as if the musicians are sitting in my room.

Second I do get picky about sound at concerts. I walked out of a Blues Traveler show once because the sound was so loud and distorted that I couldn't understand a word. On the other hand I saw Harry Connick Jr. last year and the sound was AMAZING. I could hear every detail. Even his foot tapping under the piano!!!! :eek:

Also here is a helpful tip to any concert goers, especially rockers. Take a pair of earplugs with you. You will be amazed how much more detail you will hear. Plus you will actually be able to hear your buddies when they are talking to you. And one of the biggest advantages is the lack of ringing ears after the show. After all you don't want to ruin those audiophile ears.

BTW.....All in all I agree with Early. It is too easy to get wrapped up in endless tweaking. We all need to step back from the constant mods and actually enjoy the great systems we have put together! ;)

Welcome back Early and Happy Listening Everyone :)

All concerts with electronics will sound different depending on who put it together, the hall and how loud it is. Live music is as rare as the Dotto Bird. Live music by my defination doesn't use electronics. There is no standard live music to compare to anymore.

I went to a Roberta Flack concert in Boston's Symphony Hall and they had 20 speakers every where on the stage. The sound was horrable and way too load. I walked out after the second song. Boston's Symphoney Hall has one of the best natural sound in the country. To use speakers there is a sin.

If you use ear plugs and paid more than $50 for a concert, LEAVE and admit you got screwed.

"Music is the best" FZ

[Early B.]

Just re-read my post. Damn, that sounds good.:p

Hell, I probably upgraded something the day after I posted it. Today, I'm closer to living those words. Haven't upgraded anything in several months (although I have my eye on a bigger amp).;)

[wingnut4772]

There is no such thing as a former audiophile. Once you are in, you are in for good. There is no escape.

[reeltrouble1]

Tone, the ultimate addiction, gotta get me a fix.

RT1

[hearingimpared]

Tone, the ultimate addiction, gotta get me a fix.

RT1

That is my exact thought and my pursuit, TONE! The matched tone of the instruments is what I need to feed my addiction.

[Music Joe]

For me it's the intersection of a few things. A hobby, finding something new different and exiting, coupled to the guys penchant to wanna fix somthin' that ain't even broke....arr arr arrrr!!!!

Music was way before Hi-Fi for you and I.

I used to fall for artists and bands hearing 'em from a passing car radio or on tv, the weekend cruise, then seek out their material, bad audio environs. A surprisingly good warm-up band at a concert.
A demo of music I'd hear on some nice system once in a while.
More often, it's from forum recommendations, online sampling, blind buys, cutout bins, or a demo of music I havn't heard--or bettered--on a fine system.

I've got more music then I could listen to till I'm dust. Yet on their way are 'Black Parade','In Rainbows','Map of the World','Voices From The Dust Bowl',and 'Dreaming Wide Awake'. :)>>>thanks wingnut<<<:)

Collecting, gear, music, tweaks, is about enjoyment...stay in focus of what you get out of it not what it gets out of you. For most, audio's a phase one of many that come and go.

[Early B.]

Tone, the ultimate addiction, gotta get me a fix.

Problem is -- great tone doesn't mean the music will sound better. My last system had tremendous tonality, but it sounded a bit sterile.

Consider this -- when you listen to live music (i.e., a symphony) with multiple instruments, you don't normally hear the tone of every instrument. Rather, you hear a blending of the instruments which is what makes the sound "musical."

The ultimate addiction isn't tone, it's musicality. This is measured by how hard you bob your head, tap your toe, play your air guitar, get up and boogie, and how often you press the replay button.

[Midnite Mick]

To me, stereo listening is about the emotion that it conveys to me. It is easier for me to feel an emotional involvement with the music sitting at home in my room, by MYSELF, than any live concert could duplicate. Part of this emotional involvement is attributed to all the properties we define as audiophile in nature.

Live shows, especially rock, are all about the energy of the event.

Just my thoughts,
Mike

[cfrizz]

OMG!!!! EB you GET IT! you honestly & truly GET IT!!!! THANK YOU!!!:)


The ultimate addiction isn't tone, it's musicality. This is measured by how hard you bob your head, tap your toe, play your air guitar, get up and boogie, and how often you press the replay button.

[Early B.]

OMG!!!! EB you GET IT! you honestly & truly GET IT!!!! THANK YOU!!!:)

Gee, thanks for being patient and believing in me. I couldn't have done it without you.:p

[cfrizz]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!:D:D:D

Gee, thanks for being patient and believing in me. I couldn't have done it without you.:p

[George Grand]

A bunch of years ago, Bob Carver went to visit a mad audio scientist friend. He said when he got there the guy had like 24, 200 watt amps in a daisy-chain/gang bang configuration, able to deliver all the power as if one giant amp. The guy was trying to ACCURATELY re-create the sound of a pair of household scissors making one snip. When viewed on the o-scope it was apparent the amps were driven into clipping trying to re-create that sound.

Full symphony orchestra? Thousand watts per channel? It's not happening. I stopped upgrading a long time ago. It was all very timely. It was right around when my ears started DOWNgrading, so it was pretty easy to take.

[Yashu]

These audiophiles.... they vibrate?

I like music... does that make me one? I like it to sound good too, I forgot to say that... I like music and I like it when it sounds good. OH! I keep forgetting things today. I like GOOD music and I like it to sound good. I don't care for bad music, so whether it sounds good or not, I don't really mind... does that make me a bad person?

I am listening to music now, it sounds pretty good, but not as good as it COULD!!! Wait... how do I know? I don't, since I have never heard the studio master tapes of this band in the studio of which it was recorded originally. I think it sounds good. I am enjoying it. I want to think that is what really matters... but... then again, it's fun to test the limits of my perception. The dark void, the unknown, the drive to experience something different. It may not be better, it may sometimes be worse, it usually is just different, but it is fun, unless it isn't.

I like music and I like it when it sounds good...

[lightman1]

Why do we torture ouselves?

[Yashu]

Because we cannot help it.

Ignorance is bliss. The tree of knowledge of good and evil entails that when the apple has been tasted, we learn that there is both good AND evil. It is about the only thing in the bible that makes any kind of sense in the modern world. I am not a theist, but I can tell you that what you are not aware of is not going to bother you. Just being aware of something, even if it is awareness of possibility, or potential, can turn into an obsession to find a balance, or a relative place for ourselves in a universe of nothing but relativity. How hard can that be anyway, eh? There are *only* an infinite amount of possibilities. We can, at the very least, pat ourselves on the back for knowing that much, but perhaps try not to turn our noses up so high to those that are not aware of such things, for they, in their ignorance, have something that we do not, which is bliss without second thought.

I will die before I know everything, but I will die knowing that I tried.

[lightman1]

Ignorance is bliss and I'm the happiest man alive...

[George Grand]

What a crock of shit.

[lightman1]

Couldn't have said it better myself, George.....

[Face]

What a crock of shit.
Tell us how you really feel, LOL!

[George Grand]

If I ever start talking like that, somebody please kick me down a flight of stairs that aren't carpeted.

[shack]

What a crock of shit.

Couldn't have said it better myself, George.....

George does have a way with words...

[Early B.]

Damn, Yashu -- you're really taking this "psychotic rant" thread seriously. :p