What will you do when NOS tubes run out?

[organ]

OK, tube heads. None of us want this to happen but eventually it will. What will you do?

I voted for new production. They're getting much better with new designs coming out.

Maurice

[dragon1952]

I would say these NOS are going to be around for quite awhile because they last so freakin long. Maybe the NIB will dry up but I don't think we have to worry a hell of a lot but having said that if I found something I really liked then I'd probably buy an extra set. But then again, I'm almost 53 . If I was 25 I might stock up on several sets. NOS/NIB tubes are probably a pretty good investment right now.

[dorokusai]

I'm not worried about it as their is vintage gear floating around all the time with rare and super rare tubes....whether it's NOS makes no difference to me.

[Tour2ma]

Just something about polls like this that invite trashing by including one or more variations of "This is stupid"...

[organ]

Dragon,
You're absolutely right. Imagine coming across a storage room or warehouse full of these? It's like winning the lottery http://www.tubedepot.com/pa-ecc803s-tele.html

Doro,
Good point. Some sellers just find some old "junk" in the attic and put it up for sale cheap without knowing their real value.

[organ]

Tour,
lol. I picked 6 options but couldn't think of anything for the 6th one so I just added that in. I guess the members who hate this organ creature that's always lurking in the 2ch forum will vote there:).

[nadams]

Okay, so I'm not into tubes... haven't had any tube gear, ever... but I have to ask.. why can't they make new ones that sound as good as the old? Tubes don't seem to be very complicated devices (but again, I know nothing about them). I do think that the demand has gone back up for tubes. They went out of style in the 70's, 80's, and most of the 90's, but it seems like a few manufacturers are putting out new tube gear, which means the demand for tubes is going to increase. This should lead to manufacturers making good-sounding tubes to satisfy the market...

[organ]

Nadams,
Tube production is a VERY complicated process. Everything from raw materials to the strength of the vacuum. Not to mention the tiny parts that must be put together. Back in the days, and I'm sure even today, these companies keep their formulas secret.

Things are really improving with current production. Some tube types sound just as good, if not better than NOS while some sound a lot worse than NOS.

[madmax]

I'm very happy with some of the latest production stuff. Right now my TungSol 6550's have grown into the best power tubes I've had so far. Also, the newer EH pre tubes are the best to date. These new tube manufacturers have it down.
madmax

[faster100]

aside from fancy new tubes, or vintage old tubes.. I just like the nostalgia (sp) of the old tubes.. the print, some coming from cool places like holland or germany, knowing its still working from the 40's or 50's.. the smell of old tubes that have alittle old dust on them.. the sound although new tubes sound great!! Old tubes have been in some of the worlds sought after gear and burned in with years of listening from god only knows who... It's just my 0.02 cents.. but that's my reasons.. People have the attitude, "ah i don't give a crap" are the same people who are buying vintage tubes now while they are still plentiful :) I won't stock pile, and may be to old to worry once they are gone..

Good post maurice

[Early B.]

Today's tubes will become tomorrow's NOS, so we'll never run out.

[SCompRacer]

I'm very happy with some of the latest production stuff.

IMO 12AX7LPS Sovteks fall into that category too.

[BlueMDPicker]

As long as there's a madmax and upgrade bug, no worries! :D

[beardog03]

I have to agree with Madmax...

and Early B..!!

[reeltrouble1]

Hmmm........I will wake my bod from the dirt nap, smile at the Polkies and then turn back to my truly "heavenly" rig.

RT1

[landry_p2000]

Since ND13 told me about how much a tube amp would cost, :eek: I decided that it would be best for me to go solid state. I wouldn't mind listening to a tube amp just to experience it though.

[madmax]

Since ND13 told me about how much a tube amp would cost, :eek: I decided that it would be best for me to go solid state. I wouldn't mind listening to a tube amp just to experience it though.

So how much does a tube amp cost?
madmax

[ND13]

I believe he must be talking about how much a NEW ASL AQ1001DT would cost when I was looking at them, $1100-1400 depending on the retailer, which imo is still a bargain for the performance and SQ that will be had. :)

[W WALDECKER]

I think that it is a good idea to buy a supply of some of the classic NOS tubes because the price will always keep going up .I am buying Quads of 6DJ8/6922 and 7308 twin triodes. i am really digging the Amperex 7308s and would like to get a matched and balanced Quad of the Siemens 7308s. i also want to get a Quad of matched and balanced Amperex A-frame orange Globe 6922s. if anyone knows of a Great modern day manufactured tube in this catagory i am willing to buy a Quad of them also. i talked to Bruce Wenger at BWS consulting in Arlington Va and i am considering mods to the Anthem Pre 1L including high performance diodes and paper and oil capacitors. thanks....WCW III

[dragon1952]

Here's some really nice NIB Amperex 6DJ8's
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1137993906

[W WALDECKER]

Here's some really nice NIB Amperex 6DJ8's
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1137993906the guy i am getting tubes from has both NOS types that are shown in your link and tells me that the A-frames sound better than the bugle boys so i will buy a Quad of both to see which ones i prefer in my setup. ND13/Noel prefers the Bugle Boys over the A-frames so who knows ?thanks...WCW III

[danger boy]

I have a friend who is paying his way thru college by selling and buying tubes on Ebay. He's doing quite well. Plus he owns all tube gear himself. :D

[organ]

It will take a long time before they run out but before then, the price will really turn us off. Glad the new stuff are sounding really good. All the new companies have good and bad tubes depending on tube type.

The only NOS that I MUST have are Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 and RCA or Sylvania 7199.

[organ]

if anyone knows of a Great modern day manufactured tube in this catagory i am willing to buy a Quad of them also. i talked to Bruce Wenger at BWS consulting in Arlington Va and i am considering mods to the Anthem Pre 1L including high performance diodes and paper and oil capacitors. thanks....WCW III

My favorite current production 6922 is JJ. Amazing sound from those little gems. I like it more than a few NOS I have.

Also, the current Ei 6DJ8 is copy of Ampex A-frame.

[dorokusai]

I think that it is a good idea to buy a supply of some of the classic NOS tubes because the price will always keep going up .I am buying Quads of 6DJ8/6922 and 7308 twin triodes. i am really digging the Amperex 7308s and would like to get a matched and balanced Quad of the Siemens 7308s. i also want to get a Quad of matched and balanced Amperex A-frame orange Globe 6922s. if anyone knows of a Great modern day manufactured tube in this catagory i am willing to buy a Quad of them also. i talked to Bruce Wenger at BWS consulting in Arlington Va and i am considering mods to the Anthem Pre 1L including high performance diodes and paper and oil capacitors. thanks....WCW III

I've run all those tubes thru the Anthem PreXL's, and my favorite is the Mullard, but I keep forgetting to get them back from Emlyn. He's found another tube he enjoys, so there's the change in perspective.

Why are you replacing 6922 with 7308? It's not a direct replacement.

The only way to find out what you like, is to try it out. The quad theory also changes with other changes in your rig, so don't get caught up and try to have everything at one time, you'll just ruin the whole experience with placebo effect.

My pre-amp requirements have changed over the years so I have spent more money in re-tube than is neccesary.

In regards to the Bruce Wenger upgrades....it's overkill and a waste of money. It's an above average unit to begin with, worry about the output stage only....and that's two PCB components. Easy, CHEAP, upgrade.

[beardog03]

I thought 7308`s were a direct replacement for the 6922/6dj8..

I have learned to let them break in longer, and not roll them in and out so fast, or so many times...otherwise they all start to sound the same..!!

[W WALDECKER]

I thought 7308`s were a direct replacement for the 6922/6dj8..

I have learned to let them break in longer, and not roll them in and out so fast, or so many times...otherwise they all start to sound the same..!!maybe doro was thinking of the 7DJ8 i dont know? they will still work also although they run a slightly higher heater voltage. from everything that i have read the 7308 is the premium grade version of the 6DJ8 and it works Great in my Anthem preamp so i want to try the Siemens 7308 next to see which one i like better.i am considering mods to the Anthem and i also want to talk to the folks at the Parts Connection because they used to build the Sonic Frontiers/Anthem gear and may know a thing or two about the best way to approach Hot Rodding the Anthem Pre 1L.thanks....WCW III

[W WALDECKER]

I've run all those tubes thru the Anthem PreXL's, and my favorite is the Mullard, but I keep forgetting to get them back from Emlyn. He's found another tube he enjoys, so there's the change in perspective.

Why are you replacing 6922 with 7308? It's not a direct replacement.

The only way to find out what you like, is to try it out. The quad theory also changes with other changes in your rig, so don't get caught up and try to have everything at one time, you'll just ruin the whole experience with placebo effect.

My pre-amp requirements have changed over the years so I have spent more money in re-tube than is neccesary.

In regards to the Bruce Wenger upgrades....it's overkill and a waste of money. It's an above average unit to begin with, worry about the output stage only....and that's two PCB components. Easy, CHEAP, upgrade.Hey doro ,i do understand that the Pre 1L is an above average preamplifier and i thought it was the best bang for the buck in its respective used price range vs some of the new entry level tube preamplifiers on the market.i will try the Mullards as soon as i find a Quad of nice ones. i have Quads of 6922s that are still new in the box and i am in no hurry to roll the tubes in and out of the Anthem.it is my understanding that the 7308 is at the top of the 6DJ8 ladder and that this twin triode is built to tighter tolerances and is supposed to be the most linear of the 6DJ8 family. i dont know what mods i will have done to the Anthem Pre 1L yet because i am still looking. thanks....WCW III

[dorokusai]

I roll tubes according to an actual, printed tube replacement manual, not an internet link....feel free to roll what you want. Happy Listening!

[faster100]

So gary dodd is telling people the wrong thing to use in place of a 6dj8/6922 that the elp uses? Just curious..

[W WALDECKER]

So gary dodd is telling people the wrong thing to use in place of a 6dj8/6922 that the elp uses? Just curious..i would pose this question to Gary Dodd himself and find out what his opinion is. i just looked at the Audible Illusions Website and one of the NOS tubes that is on thier reccomended list is the Siemens 7308.Tube Guru Kevin Deale of Upscale Audio also reccomends this tube and the Amperex 7308 for the Anthem Pre 1L that i am using.it may depend on the specific Preamplifier design but i have never heard any issues raised before regarding the compatability of the 6DJ8,6922 and 7308. can anyone else chime in on this compatabilty issue ? thanks....WCW III

[faster100]

I don't need to ask again, Ive asked him when i had the ELP.. asked Russman who comfirmed it and this is the first ive heard its not a compatable for the 6dj8/6922 varient.. I guess several good sources could be wrong, lord knows a 50 year old book couldn't be wrong with current production equipment :)

[BlueMDPicker]

A good read (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8) for basic info, your impressions may vary substantially.

[W WALDECKER]

A good read (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8) for basic info, your impressions may vary substantially.i already have that link stored in my favorites. i wonder if there are any white papers adressing compatability in the 6DJ8 tube family? thanks....WCW III

[RuSsMaN]

The 7308 is a 6DJ8 just like the 6922 is a 6DJ8, it is a direct replacement in ANY 6DJ8 circuit.

[dorokusai]

As I stated previously, go with your own knowledge source, but you won't find them in my collection.

Mike - Nice link.

Faster - Are you using a 50 year old book? That would be silly.

[faster100]

Nope, I use known good sources.. or atleast id like to think they are good.
Russman, Gary Dodd, and yes internet info.. I'm pretty sure not many here know first hand about tubes, IE: when they came out.. and many of us didn't use tubes till recent years.. and you all got your info from somewhere, be it online, a friend or a book.. :) I'm no expert by far, however i do alot of reading and picking brains to find out what i know.. which is enough to take care of my needs.. No need to be a total expert, the Internet does me well enough

[RuSsMaN]

Back on track, I'm not worried about NOS running out, I've got pretty much all I need, plus there is still a TON of great stuff being made.

I think the toob noobs get too wrapped up in rolling sometimes, and forget about the peice of gear and the circuit the tubes are installed in. Tubes should be icing, on an already delicious cake - they won't make or break something built right. A well engineered tube component is just that.

$500 tubes in a $500 peice? Silly, in my opinion. You'd get more audio mileage out of having $200 worth of mods done to that $500 peice, throw in some affordable current production, or less expensive and easy to source NOS (mil-spec, etc), and have lots of coin left over for other things in the audio chain.

Cheers,
Russ

[fredv]

i already have that link stored in my favorites. i wonder if there are any white papers adressing compatability in the 6DJ8 tube family? thanks....WCW III
I came across this link recently, not sure you saw it not not:
http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/6dj8sound.html

[RuSsMaN]

Dennis is our audio group (Dallas Audio Club), and good friend of mine, he talks, I listen. You want to talk about someone who has forgotten about more tube gear, than anyone will ever know. ;)

[Dennis Gardner]

I think Russ hit on a common issue with some of the new tube gear on the market. The "iron" that the circuits are built around are simply shit. The transformers are what made some of the '50s-'60s Mac, Marantz, Fisher, even Dynaco such great platforms to work from. Tweaking those models with different tubes was a great place to start. Alot of the Chinese stuff on the market today are trying to get around this fact with slick wiring schemes and lots of chrome, cosmetic covers over tiny power transformers, etc.

I'm not saying that it is all crap, just in agreement that rolling high $$$ tubes into some of the poor designs today only changes a shitty sound to a less shitty sound.

[organ]

6DJ8, 6922 and 7308 are all in the same family.

7308 are premium 6922.

The only time you'll have any issues is running a 6DJ8 in a pre amp designed for 6922. The 6922 have slightly higher current than 6DJ8. It would burn out the tube pretty fast.

[W WALDECKER]

I think Russ hit on a common issue with some of the new tube gear on the market. The "iron" that the circuits are built around are simply shit. The transformers are what made some of the '50s-'60s Mac, Marantz, Fisher, even Dynaco such great platforms to work from. Tweaking those models with different tubes was a great place to start. Alot of the Chinese stuff on the market today are trying to get around this fact with slick wiring schemes and lots of chrome, cosmetic covers over tiny power transformers, etc.

I'm not saying that it is all crap, just in agreement that rolling high $$$ tubes into some of the poor designs today only changes a shitty sound to a less shitty sound.i was running a matched and balanced Quad of JAN Philips 6922s in the Anthem Pre 1L and it sounded very good. i wanted to try some Amperex tubes because i wanted to find out what all the fuss was about. was there a dramatic improvement after installing the Amperex 7308s and letting them burn in? you bet your sweet ass there was! the deal was that in the event that i did not care for them the guy that i am buying the tubes from would let me return them and try something else. i dont know about anyone else but this option gave me the green light to try a Quad at no risk to my wallet, so i went for it and i am sure glad that i did. i dont know if the earler comments were directed at me or not but here i go ,as far as being new to the tube scene, so What ?i am a 43 year old blue collar pipefitter/ mechanical forman with an above average IQ and i have been involved with the Audio scene since i was 13 years old and i do know a little bit about it .i seek advice and i sometimes listen to suggestions. at the end of the day i am perfectly capable of making the final decisions about what direction i will take in this hobby of ours. as for the veiled and condecending comments leveled at CP members who happen to be new to the tube scene from certain more tube savy senior members of club Polk i feel that it serves no other useful pupose except to further inflate thier already over inflated egos and if the shoe fits wear it ! thanks....WCW III

[BlueMDPicker]

The only time you'll have any issues is running a 6DJ8 in a pre amp designed for 6922. The 6922 have slightly higher current than 6DJ8. It would burn out the tube pretty fast.

Bingo! That's the most important consideration when using tubes, other than "preferred substitutes", if a circuit was designed for the higher operating limits of military spec and TV tubes.

There are a couple of schools of thought. Some think a tube sounds "best" when not operated near its design limits, while others think a tube sounds "best" when operated quite near its design limits. Who's right? Your ear on your gear, of course.

William - relax. I don't believe anything here was directed at you personally. This is a public forum, and the opinions/advice may be read and absorbed by many others who don't comment (and who have not invested the time you have in researching your interests in the hobby.)

[Dennis Gardner]

Hey William, the gear you run can hardly be considered low end to most of us here. I haven't went the high $$$ tube route for any of my gear simply for one reason: I still see more benefit for the $$$ in my system in other places, Once I have some of my gear in place longer, I may go NOS. The differences I've seen in some of the 12AX7 tubes I have rolled in haven't been a pleasant experience. I just don't care for veiled and muddy. I have tried EI, EH, Sovtek LPS and JJ tesla and ECC83. All new versions of course,

Russ' comment is made in the same vein as a $2K set of wheels on that primer grey $500 car. Somehow, sumpin' just ain't right. :D

[BobMcG]

Wouldn't effect me a whole lot I suppose. Only owning two tube devices at the moment and not being a big tube roller at the moment either, (times could change) I'm happy with the newer stuff out there. As the next ten years pass by and some more of the older NOS stuff dries up...........




well, my ears will be ten years older. And not getting any better.