How much power? LSi 9

[1hotsho]

I am new to the home theater, but I have been doing alot of reviews on the LSi9 speakers and I would like these for my home theater system. Many posts have stated you need alot of power to make these speakers perform, so my question is, is there a stand alone receiver that would do these speakers justice or would a preamp and amp combo be better. For reference my room is 25'X16'W. I am putting in-ceiling speakers for the surrounds, the side/rear just won't work. Probably go with the LC80/60i? I am looking for receiver maybe in the $750-1000?

[Ferres]

If you intend to power lsi9's with a reciever get an HK brand. :)

[sickicw]

I bought some lsi9s about 6 months ago, and I will tell you my experiences. First of all they are 4 ohm speaker and the impedance can get down to 2 ohms. This means to get a flat frequency response from them (so they will sound as they were designed to), you will need an amp that can double its output from 4 ohms to 2 ohms. Most amps were designed for 8 ohms and don’t sound good at all with the lsi9s unless you have a good equalizer to flatten the response (and your amp has plenty of reserve power). Don’t bother with a receiver. If you are going to use a receiver, I would look into other speakers. Me, personally I tried the outlaw 755 and although it drove them, it couldn’t really didn’t take hold of the woofers and the sound was pretty thin. Then I did a little “do it yourself engineering” and bought a good car amplifier and a used 55 amp power supply and integrated one nice and cheap 2 channel amp able of dishing out 200 watts at 4 ohms and 400 watts at 8 ohms all for under $1000.

My new car amp sounds much, much, much better than the outlaw amp and I am very happy with it. I still haven’t decided if I am going to take the time to swap over all my home theater speakers to use Rockford Fosgate car amps (of course I will have to build some nice enclosures if I do this), or same up the money and get me a krell 3250.

Anyhoo, I guess to answer your question, you need lots of high current power that is stable down to 2 ohms if you want it to sound its best. Might also want to check out a sunfire amp. You can probably pick one up used for under $1000. But really it all depends on your tastes. If you are happy listening to the lsi9 with a high crossover setting on a less than idea amp, go for it and let your sub do all the work. Me personally, I want the lsi9s, to do the work down to 60hz. I bought those bad boys for a reason, and think it would be a waste to not use there full potential …..

[McLoki]

Then I did a little “do it yourself engineering” and bought a good car amplifier and a used 55 amp power supply and integrated one nice and cheap 2 channel amp able of dishing out 200 watts at 4 ohms and 400 watts at 8 ohms all for under $1000.

Interesting solution to the problem. I have never heard of anyone doing this before. If you get a chance it would be an interesting read to hear more about the problem you were trying to solve and how your solution worked in comparison to the outlaw amp that many here seem to like. (as far as home amps go)

I don't know if I would try it - to many excellent amps in that price range that are designed for home use - but I am glad it worked for you and I wish I could hear the results sometime.

BTW - I bet it is 200 watts at 8 ohms and 400 watts at 4 ohms. (just to keep from confusing people - in a good amp the watts should increase by 50%-100% as the ohms (resistance) decreases.)

Michael

[sickicw]

If you get a chance it would be an interesting read to hear more about the problem you were trying to solve and how your solution worked in comparison to the outlaw amp that many here seem to like. (as far as home amps go)

BTW - I bet it is 200 watts at 8 ohms and 400 watts at 4 ohms. (just to keep from confusing people - in a good amp the watts should increase by 50%-100% as the ohms (resistance) decreases.)



Yea, i might write it up and send some pics one of these days. I basicly wanted a high current amp that is designed for low impedances. Car speakers are 4 ohms, so it seemed like a no brainer...

the output for it was rated at 200 watts at 4 ohms, and 400 watts at 2.
It wasn't rated for 8 ohms, but i assume it is 100 watts.

[steveinaz]

My opinion is that Lsi9's should be reserved for seperates, with an amp minimum of 125 watts/channel, preferably 200watts/channel or more.

I'm not trying to be an audio snob, just telling you that the Lsi9 is a VERY demanding speaker on the amp. It can be a very rewarding speaker when ran "correctly."

Personally, If i were going to spend "Lsi9" money, I'd go Paradigm Ref Studio 40. But thats my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...

[polkatese]

My opinion is that Lsi9's should be reserved for seperates, with an amp minimum of 125 watts/channel, preferably 200watts/channel or more.

I'm not trying to be an audio snob, just telling you that the Lsi9 is a VERY demanding speaker on the amp. It can be a very rewarding speaker when ran "correctly."



Right on, Steve. I would add it's true of LSi15 too. Now, what is this about Digm that you don't like about? ;)

[opus]

My opinion is that Lsi9's should be reserved for seperates, with an amp minimum of 125 watts/channel, preferably 200watts/channel or more.

...
Steve, Would that be 125watts at 8 ohms? IYO

[VR3]

YOU NEED ALOT OF EFFING POWER!!!!!!! ALOT!!! ALOT!!! ALOT!!! SO MUCH YOUR BRAINS WILL SPILL ON THE DESK IN AMAZEMENT AT THE POWER NEEDED!

An amp STABLE at 4 ohms will adequately POWER the LSi9. Of course, the better the amp with more current will power them BETTER.

The Adcom GFA-535 would power the LSi9 just fine, but not to its capabilities.

NO RECEIVER (Mainstream) will power the LSi9 to its abilities. B&K, Rotel, Adcom, Outlaw, NAD, etc all have receivers that are capable.

[tdeluce]

Right on, Steve. I would add it's true of LSi15 too. Now, what is this about Digm that you don't like about? ;)


I agree but even more so with the LSi15s ( they have an additional 8 in.
unpowered woofer ). It wasn't until I turned on 600 watts to each of my
LSi15s and LSiC that I understood what I was missing. I am sure I don't use
anywhere near that most of time but it helps enormously when I drive
them hard or when a peak comes along...

[polkatese]

my magic number is 400 watts @ 4 ohms for the LSis...

[markmarc]

Steve:
I've heard the LSi9's and the Studio 40's and I have to agree with you on picking the 40's. My reasons are #1, that the 40's are smoother IMHO, across all frequencies. #2, they sound great with a wider variety of equipment.

As for using a car amp, its an intriguing idea, but I have to wonder about the S/N ratio as car amps don'y produce very "clean" sound from what I understand. Just my 2 cents.

[steveinaz]

Steve, Would that be 125watts at 8 ohms? IYO

YES, bare minimum--and don't expect much.

The Lsi9 sits in a strange "niche." Most people who are running serious power (300watts/channel and above) aren't interested in driving bookshelf speakers. With that kind of power, why be limited by a bookshelf (my thinking), because of physical limitations in the small cabinet that cannot be overcome. Plus, with that kind of power costing you probably $1500 or more, you're gonna run a $1000 speaker? Just don't make sense to me. Polk should have built this series to be a little easier to drive, IMO they're just too "eccentric", for lack of a better term.

I would think the Lsi15 would actually be easier to drive because it doesn't have the extremely low impedance dips that the 9 displays--niether does the Lsi7, which might explain why many prefer the Lsi7 over the Lsi9. This is conjecture, as I've never heard the Lsi15 or 7, but I've seen the impedance curves of both.

[McLoki]

It is a speaker series that sounds good (I would say what you would expect for the price) with most upper end AVR's. (around $1000 price point)

The true value and worth of the speaker though will never be seen by those running AVR's. It is a decent speaker with decent electronics, but it just keeps getting better and better as you move up the audio food chain. I think that makes it a great transition speaker for budding audiophiles.

It will sound pretty good if you are starting with a decent AVR and will just keep sounding better and better as you upgrade your other components. It is a really nice mid-high end speaker series that will show the benefits of high end equipment while still being accessable on decent mid-fi gear. (at least not showing mid-fi flaws to the point of sounding like crap - aka it is pretty forgiving)

There are tons of people who have purchased the LSi series and think it sounds great running on denon, onkyo and yamaha AVR's. While I will agree with them on the sound, most owners of LSi speakers will never know what the LSi's are capable of and will, unfortunately, upgrade the speaker rather than the electronics to get a better sound.

Michael

[2+2]

It wasn't until I turned on 600 watts to each of my
LSi15s and LSiC that I understood what I was missing.

I can't hear you!!!!!....no more upgrades...no more upgrades....no more upgrades...no more upgrades....no more upgrades...no more upgrades...

[McLoki]

I can't hear you!!!!!....no more upgrades...no more upgrades....no more upgrades...no more upgrades....no more upgrades...no more upgrades...
You don't have to listen to him. You don't need 600 watts to open up the LSi series, 500 is more than enough. :D :D

Michael

[RuSsMaN]

Ummm....Eighty Nine watts should do it. Yeah.

[McLoki]

In all seriousness, I really think current capability is much more important than watts for the LSi series to shine.

Michael

[2+2]

In all seriousness, I really think current capability is much more important than watts for the LSi series to shine.

Michael

I think agree with you there....I liked my LSi15s better with an HK 80W amp than a Rotel 120W amp, HK having higher instantaneous current capability than the Rotel :eek: ..... My LSi 15s will just have to settle for the 200W Rotel I am giving it now...I am not going to give it more!

[McLoki]

My LSi 15s will just have to settle for the 200W Rotel I am giving it now...I am not going to give it more!
But you know you want to..... :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Michael

[steveinaz]

The ability to drive extremely low impedances is #1, IMO, however that is achieved. I didn't have to push my HCA-1500 (215 watts) that far to get loud, but either the Lsi9 was beginning to compress its dynamics OR my HCA was running out low impedance steam...don't know which, based on how the speaker sounded, I suspect the former.

[scottnbnj]

steve, from your review thread, it looks like y'all had alot of fun with those lsi9's and really had them shaking. everything you mentioned fit into what i've heard from mine at one time or another, though i can't say i've ever seen my drivers work as hard as what you described. but then, my room is smaller and my uh,'the receiver' obviously has alot less grunt.

in any case, considering the force you were propelling those 9's at, your demo would have benefited greatly from spiking those suckers to the floor. i gotta think that that might have influenced what you heard when you were really juicing them up.

thanks again for your review in the other thread.

)

[steveinaz]

True Scott about the spiking, I hadn't considered that. I didn't have any decent stands available so I used 2 bar stools, which happened to place the tweeters just perfectly at ear level.

I didn't want to harp on the power issue too much as the Lsi9's played PLENTY loud for most anyone, and certainly louder than any other bookshelf I've heard.

[scottnbnj]

heh. heh. you should see some of the shi..,uh,stuff i had mine stacked on before i decided what height stands to get. that sticking to the tweets could have been another thing that not spiking might affect too, not soley, i've heard it other times too, but, partly.

)

[lanion]

I have a HK DPR 1001 I use to drive my LSI9s and I think it sounds good, but I certainly want a new amp. The DPR puts out 50watts/channel into 8 ohms and 50/watts channel into 4ohms, so its really not high current at all. At times it sounds fantastic, other times not so great. I just want to get away from amps that have a 4ohm / 6ohm / 8 ohm switch.... it sounds so much better when set to 8ohms, but it worries me when I do that.

[steveinaz]

Lanion
If I were to buy a set of Lsi9's, I'd be hitting the 'gon or ebay looking for Carver M-1.5T. There's 2 of them right now on the bay...

[lanion]

Im gonna get something from Outlaw soon.

[SKsolutions]

IT'S ALL IN THE CAPS.! Literally. Transformer fills em, speaker drains em. Current capability is equal to quick power from the supply to the caps and through the output transistors with out frying em. The load presented by the 9's is complex and very near a dead short in certain frequency ranges 200ish. There is also the damping and negative feedback factors of the amp that contribute to control of the drivers, and thus the sound that is generated. I am currently (pun intended), driving my 9's very well with a 75 watt amp that will peak at 135 ish with less than 1% THD into an 8Ohm load. The same amp will deliver around twice that into a 4 Ohm load.
So, to those who say you need a ton of power.....you are correct....in a sense. You just need to have it when you need it (deep passage and when the impedance drops across the frequency range).
IMO Philips

[beardog03]

My Parasound HCA-3500 drives them nicely..

I`ll let ya know how the Cary V-12 mono`s do in about 6 months.. :D

[Mazeroth]

I may get bashed but I'm going to try to help some guys that aren't familiar with how speakers work.

Watts = Volume...nothing more.

Some people are under the impression that more watts = tighter control over the speaker drivers, better separation etc...that's absolute nonsense. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here but for the last 1.5 years I've devoted at least 1-2 hours per day reading and experimenting with loudspeaker design, and have learned a TON. A lot of the stuff I thought to be true, before getting into loudspeaker design, wasn't. With that...

The LSi9s will play just fine with a receiver, GRANTED, you don't listen to them at extremely loud volumes. When you double power, you gain 3db in output, PERIOD. Not better control, not better separation, just 3db. Yes, having an amp with greater headroom means the amp will be less likely to clip, which will give you better sound quality, but if you listen at a reasonable level, a 50-100w @4 ohm amp will be more than sufficient.

Polk rates the LSi9 at 88db/1w/1m efficient. When you 10x power, you gain 10db. Therefore, the LSi9 will play at 98db/10w at 1 meter listening distance. When you double distance, you lose 6db (almost always). At 2 meters, you'll have a speaker playing at 92db, which is LOUD. At 4 meters, that speaker will be playing at 86db. 86db is a pretty good number, considering you're only throwing 10 watts at the LSi9. Oh, and I forgot to mention, that is only for one speaker. Let's throw 10 watts at the other one, which gives us a 6db increase in output since we're doubling our power and number of speakers. Now, with dual LSi9s, each getting 10 watts, you're getting 92db of volume at 4 meters! Drop back another 4 meters, which I doubt anyone listens at 8 meters, and you're still getting 86db of output! Double the power to 20w, and you're at 89db. Double that to 40w, which any HK receiver can do (I had an AVR230 on LSi9s and it was great), and you have 92db of output at 8 meters, or for most people who listen around 4 meters, 98db, which is extremely loud:

http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/content/4/physics/corus/sound/psch1pg3.html

Sorry for going on so long, but I'm an advocate of not needing a ton of power. The line arrays I built are 98db/1w efficient, and I had them running off a Sonic Impact T-Amp, with the gain about 1/4 the way up and they would drive people out of the room with about 2 watts of power. The tube guys can attest to how little power is truly needed.

I say save your money and get a beefy HK, NAD, Outlaw etc. receiver and call it a day.

[wingnut4772]

Thanks Mazeroth...that was actually pretty enlightening.

[TroyD]

Quality, not quantity.

A lot of people won't EVER believe this but a competently designed amp of between 75-100 wpc with a few db's of headroom will drive just about any speaker you can come up with to levels that any normal person would consider too damn loud.

BDT

[wingnut4772]

What specifications would you look for then if not necessarily the wattage?

[Gaara]

I think TroyD hit the nail on the head with this one. Quality, not quantity is what is important. I think my LSis sound great with my 600watts per channel coming from my Cinenova, and about the same as my 200watts per channel coming from my A23. It is all about quality power over quantitiy.

Jared

[TroyD]

I'm not saying wattage isn't important, it is. Brute force can overcome more than a few obstacles. However, given the choice of a pair of, say vintage Levinson ML-2's for example (25 or 35 wpc) and, say, an Adcom with a gazillion wpc.....see where I'm heading here?

Hell, I run my SDA SRS 2.3tl's on 75wpc and NEVER had an issue with not enough power.

I've run my LSi's on a little 35 wpc Marantz receiver and pushed them to levels no sane person could tolerate and the Marantz never broke a sweat. Something that I look at is, for example, the output should come close to doubling as the impedence drops. My Classe is 250wpc into 8ohms, 500 into 4, 1000 into 2.

Now, there is no substitute for surface radiating area and a manly amp, however, wpc isn't the WHOLE story.

BDT

[sickicw]

I may get bashed but I'm going to try to help some guys that aren't familiar with how speakers work.

Watts = Volume...nothing more.

Some people are under the impression that more watts = tighter control over the speaker drivers, better separation etc...that's absolute nonsense. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here but for the last 1.5 years I've devoted at least 1-2 hours per day reading and experimenting with loudspeaker design, and have learned a TON. A lot of the stuff I thought to be true, before getting into loudspeaker design, wasn't. With that...

The LSi9s will play just fine with a receiver, GRANTED, you don't listen to them at extremely loud volumes. When you double power, you gain 3db in output, PERIOD. Not better control, not better separation, just 3db. Yes, having an amp with greater headroom means the amp will be less likely to clip, which will give you better sound quality, but if you listen at a reasonable level, a 50-100w @4 ohm amp will be more than sufficient.

Polk rates the LSi9 at 88db/1w/1m efficient. When you 10x power, you gain 10db. Therefore, the LSi9 will play at 98db/10w at 1 meter listening distance. When you double distance, you lose 6db (almost always). At 2 meters, you'll have a speaker playing at 92db, which is LOUD. At 4 meters, that speaker will be playing at 86db. 86db is a pretty good number, considering you're only throwing 10 watts at the LSi9. Oh, and I forgot to mention, that is only for one speaker. Let's throw 10 watts at the other one, which gives us a 6db increase in output since we're doubling our power and number of speakers. Now, with dual LSi9s, each getting 10 watts, you're getting 92db of volume at 4 meters! Drop back another 4 meters, which I doubt anyone listens at 8 meters, and you're still getting 86db of output! Double the power to 20w, and you're at 89db. Double that to 40w, which any HK receiver can do (I had an AVR230 on LSi9s and it was great), and you have 92db of output at 8 meters, or for most people who listen around 4 meters, 98db, which is extremely loud:

http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/content/4/physics/corus/sound/psch1pg3.html

Sorry for going on so long, but I'm an advocate of not needing a ton of power. The line arrays I built are 98db/1w efficient, and I had them running off a Sonic Impact T-Amp, with the gain about 1/4 the way up and they would drive people out of the room with about 2 watts of power. The tube guys can attest to how little power is truly needed.

I say save your money and get a beefy HK, NAD, Outlaw etc. receiver and call it a day.


I usually don’t do this, but I’m gonna have to call BS.

Actually, watts = voltage * current. I’m not going to go into this any more. I’ve already posted on this subject many times, but people will believe what they want to.

Just remember, lots of current at low distortion = better amp. You don't have to have "Lots of power", just very high current power.

[millerman 3732]

I'm not saying wattage isn't important, it is. Brute force can overcome more than a few obstacles. However, given the choice of a pair of, say vintage Levinson ML-2's for example (25 or 35 wpc) and, say, an Adcom with a gazillion wpc.....see where I'm heading here?

Hell, I run my SDA SRS 2.3tl's on 75wpc and NEVER had an issue with not enough power.

I've run my LSi's on a little 35 wpc Marantz receiver and pushed them to levels no sane person could tolerate and the Marantz never broke a sweat. Something that I look at is, for example, the output should come close to doubling as the impedence drops. My Classe is 250wpc into 8ohms, 500 into 4, 1000 into 2.

Now, there is no substitute for surface radiating area and a manly amp, however, wpc isn't the WHOLE story.

BDT
So your saying I can run a 500w speaker on a 75w amp and it will still sound great ? I hope so because I would very much rather buy a 75w amp

[shack]

So your saying I can run a 500w speaker on a 75w amp and it will still sound great ? I hope so because I would very much rather buy a 75w amp
There is really no such thing as a 500w speaker. A speaker's power rating (in general) tells you how much power can be dissipated in the speaker's voice coil without damaging the speaker. It doesn't mean a speaker need that much power to operate properly.

[wingnut4772]

Ok. My head is a little spinny now. Let's take a real world example here. So...what would be the difference according to what has been outlined here from THIS (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/770.html) amplifier to THIS (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/earthquake-cinenova-grande-power-amplifier-10-2004.html) amplifier....besides the wattage and channel numbers..?

[millerman 3732]

There is really no such thing as a 500w speaker. A speaker's power rating (in general) tells you how much power can be dissipated in the speaker's voice coil without damaging the speaker. It doesn't mean a speaker need that much power to operate properly.
I understand the whole 500w speaker thing but what I was asking is that a speaker that will hold 500w say an RTi 12 will that sound just as good on a 100w amp as it would on a 500w amp

[cfrizz]

I will tell you what I discovered.

My brother has a pair of LSI 7's being run from a "high current" 50 watt per channel Rotel amp.

The speakers sound excellent at moderate levels. However, when I feel the top of the amp, YOU COULD FRY AN EGG ON THE POOR THING!!!!

If it was pushed much higher it would probably run out of steam, & damage itself or the speakers.

Lets face it, every now & then EVERYONE wants to blast thier system just for the fun of it & not have to worry about blowing up thier speakers or thier amp.

For me the bottom line is I would rather have a 200 watt amp pushing ANY LSI speaker & know that it will NOT have to work excessively hard with tons of reserves to spare, than to push them with a 50-100 watts & risk burning them out.

I would rather spend more the first time & have the equipment last a lifetime rather than take the cheap way out now & have to repeat the expenditure in the near future.

[steveinaz]

There are 4 factors related to system loudness:

1. Power in watts of the amplifier
2. Efficiency rating of the speaker
3. Impedance of the speaker
4. Size of the room

How anyone can make the statement that "watts" are not important will need to explain that theory to me in detail. Can you run Lsi9's with 50 wpc?, Sure go ahead; hell, you can run them on 1 watt. However, if you like to "crank" it once in awhile, or be able to hear dynamic passages rendered in realistic scale, you better get more power.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[sickicw]

Max watts at 8 ohms is not as important to me as the ability to double the watts as you drop impedances in half......


wingnut4772 ,
Outlaw: Power output: 200 watts RMS at 8, 300 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. THD: 0.05%

Earthquake: Power output 300 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms, 600 Watts RMS at 4 Ohms. THD: 0.006%


Based on these two spec, I can tell you that the earthquake will give you
a) more power
b) less distortion
c) Higher current (it is able to double the power as the impedance is halved)

[sickicw]

oh yea, wingnut4772 , with respect to the lsi 9, i don't own both of these amps, but i am willing to bet that if you plot the freqency response on a graph, with both amps, the earthquake will give you more bass response than the outlaw.

[wingnut4772]

Well..I have to save for that one. Kinda blew the budget last year. :o

[wingnut4772]

Anyone here want to sell theirs? :D

[millerman 3732]

I've been thinking of getting in to the whole LSi thing myself but I don't know if my AVR ( HK AVR 635) can handle it, HK says ''that all HK receviers can handle MOST 4ohm loads'' but they also said '' there are some manufacturers' that have minimum impedance WELL BELOW the 4 and 6 ohm nominal impeadence'' does this apply to the LSi line? also if the AVR can handle the load does that mean that the AVR will be pushing 150w instead of 75w :confused:

[wingnut4772]

I just placed THE order for the Cinenova. I am an out of control freight train...but this is it ...I swear.

[shack]

I just placed THE order for the Cinenova. I am an out of control freight train...but this is it ...I swear.
Bet the boyfriend is gonna be pissed......

[jtgranby]

Bet the boyfriend is gonna be pissed......
She will be looking for a roommate soon. Post in flea market :)
JT

[audiobliss]

Congrats on the Cinenova...and getting rid of your roommate...lol...

[wingnut4772]

Actually he learned his lesson. I told him I was getting it and he said 'as long as the bills are paid...."

It pays sometimes to stand your ground. ;)

[Joey_V]

Some people are under the impression that more watts = tighter control over the speaker drivers, better separation etc...that's absolute nonsense. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here but for the last 1.5 years I've devoted at least 1-2 hours per day reading and experimenting with loudspeaker design, and have learned a TON. A lot of the stuff I thought to be true, before getting into loudspeaker design, wasn't. With that...

The LSi9s will play just fine with a receiver, GRANTED, you don't listen to them at extremely loud volumes. When you double power, you gain 3db in output, PERIOD. Not better control, not better separation, just 3db. Yes, having an amp with greater headroom means the amp will be less likely to clip, which will give you better sound quality, but if you listen at a reasonable level, a 50-100w @4 ohm amp will be more than sufficient.



I am as skeptic as they come. And when I owned the HK330, I thought to myself, why bother with separates? There is nothing to be gained, I thought.

Well, someone better explain to me why when I hooked up the Rotel RB1070 to the LSi9, why was there such a tightening of the image, enhancement of the bass, and improvement in separation? So much so that both my younger brothers heard the difference with only 1 A/B switch.

There was a fuzziness in Mariah's voice when powered through the HK (at the same volume) that I didnt get with the Rotel, for example.

I believe, that current is far more important than pure watts. If an amp has a current throughput of 130amps at 100watts, it will outperform something that gives out 15 amps at 100 watts (like a typical Yamaha receiver).

All in all, at SAME volume, a good high current amp will drive the speaker better than a receiver with low current output.

[Zero]

Whatever.

The best I have EVER heard the LSi sound, was through 6 watts. It got plenty loud too in the mid sized room.

But the standard is high current. HK can get the job done. Rotel can do it better. And well, you can go from there...

[Joey_V]

Whatever.

The best I have EVER heard the LSi sound, was through 6 watts. It got plenty loud too in the mid sized room.

But the standard is high current. HK can get the job done. Rotel can do it better. And well, you can go from there...


I agree with Zero, the standard is definitely high current.

Of the receivers, an HK will definitely get the job done. Once you go Rotel, Parasound, Classe, Bryston, Halcro, Krell, Levinson and so on.... you start squeezing more and more of the 9s potential as you go up in tier. More current = more dynamics methinks.

[cfrizz]

Darla, you're a freakin avalanche rolling over everything in your path!!! :eek:

Congrats on the amp, and well done with the man!!!! :D :D :D



Actually he learned his lesson. I told him I was getting it and he said 'as long as the bills are paid...."

It pays sometimes to stand your ground. ;)

[Ricardo]

I just placed THE order for the Cinenova. I am an out of control freight train...but this is it ...I swear.

Good for you!!!!

Hmmm....will we be seeing an Outlaw 770 in the FM soon??? :)

[audiobliss]

The best I have EVER heard the LSi sound, was through 6 watts. It got plenty loud too in the mid sized room.

Just out of curiousity, I'd love to know where that 6 watts came from.

[heiney9]

Max watts at 8 ohms is not as important to me as the ability to double the watts as you drop impedances in half......


wingnut4772 ,
Outlaw: Power output: 200 watts RMS at 8, 300 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. THD: 0.05%

Earthquake: Power output 300 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms, 600 Watts RMS at 4 Ohms. THD: 0.006%


Based on these two spec, I can tell you that the earthquake will give you
a) more power
b) less distortion
c) Higher current (it is able to double the power as the impedance is halved)


Sorry but specs mean nothing. How can you be absolutely sure A,B & C will actually happen in the "real" world, with a real musical load, in a real room, with a real dynamic passage. Fact is just by comparing specs you can't. Specs are a very general guideline and should never be substituted for actual real world listening expriences. I'm not going to jump into the whole debate as I've made my point clear several times in the past. General or absolute statements are never true when it comes to audio equipment. Each piece of the system needs to be judged regarding the synergy with the whole entire system. Making blanket statements about one small area of the equation is never going to get you anywhere; (ie; watts are only good for volume).

YMMV

H9

[wingnut4772]

Congrats on the amp, and well done with the man!!!!

Thanks Cathy! :p I think he just realized that he was being a little too much. But after this amp I really can't see where I can justify spending on anything else. I will post elsewhere and compare it to he OUtlaw 770. I know Tdeluce got one to replace his Outlaw amp and was very pleased with it.


Hmmm....will we be seeing an Outlaw 770 in the FM soon???

I actually put it up on Ebay under Auctionpalooza :o ....because If I stop paying the bills, THEN I will be in big trouble :eek: . If no one bites I will lower the price and offer it on the FM.

[heiney9]

Congrats Wingnut on another new purchase. When you having us all over to hear what sounds like a kick a$$ HT experience? I think you'll notice a justified difference between the your new amp and the Outlaw....can't wait to hear the results. I think it's so cool :cool: to have you, Cathy, Laura and others of the opposite sex here interacting in the forum. Not trying to appear sexist but normally females don't put audio and related discussion at the top of their interest list.

H9

[Ricardo]

But after this amp I really can't see where I can justify spending on anything else.
Yeah.....sure :rolleyes:



I actually put it up on Ebay under Auctionpalooza :o ....because If I stop paying the bills, THEN I will be in big trouble :eek: . If no on bites I will lower the price and offer it on the FM.

Bad girl... :) I understand...hope you sell it!!!

[wingnut4772]

Thanks and tell me about it. All my friends think I am nuts with this stuff " You spent what on a subwoofer?!"

I have been sitting on the fence for a couple of months on the Cinenova but when Outlaw stopped production of their 300 watt amp and all the good word of mouth on the Earthquake...I just had to. I would be really amazed if there is a big difference. Maybe even have a religious experience because my set up sounds pretty decent now. Tdeluce seemed to like his Cinenova over the Outlaw so we will see...You really think I will notice a lot?

[wingnut4772]

Yeah.....sure LOL!

No really....I swear...I really mean it this time.....

[heiney9]

Tdeluce seemed to like his Cinenova over the Outlaw so we will see...You really think I will notice a lot?

Well there must have been a reason to get rid of your Outlaw :) . If you've had the Outlaw for awhile and are really accustomed to its performance I think you'll hear a difference with the Cinenova. It won't be a religious experience, probably more subtle. It won't be like replacing your sub was. You may notice an improvement over time as you use it.

I swap components around at home once in awhile and I hear a distinct difference in cdp, dvdp, dacs, and receiver vs. seperates. But I'm very critical in my listening habits and I've had my gear for a long time and can notice a changes between components with my favorite musical passages. Some are night and day others are subtle and some are in between the two.

Good luck

H9

[wingnut4772]

Well there must have been a reason to get rid of your Outlaw

Yes. I am looking to really get those LSIs going . When I play them loudly I can feel a bit of strain from the Outlaw (and hear). I would like more headroom and from what I have read the Cinenova really opens up power hungry speakers like the LSIs( back to thread topic :p )I just can't wait!

[McLoki]

Just wait till you decide you need a set of carver silver 9t's (tube sounding, Solid State monoblocks - 575 wpc into 8 ohms. 900 wpc into 4. ) for the front stage and end up moving your Cineova to handle the rear channels.... :)

So, if you sell your outlaw, what are you going to use to run the rest of your channels?

Michael

[audiobliss]

Just wait till you decide you need a set of carver silver 9t's (tube sounding, Solid State monoblocks - 575 wpc into 8 ohms. 900 wpc into 4. ) for the front stage and end up moving your Cineova to handle the rear channels.... :)

Now that sounds like it'd be a nice setup!

[wingnut4772]

So, if you sell your outlaw, what are you going to use to run the rest of your channels?
I have 2 Outlaw m2200s for the back two.

[SKsolutions]

Try re-reading the post.

Save the 2+2 mathematics for the novices that need simple linear equations, as they have little to do with the dynamics.
Good luck with the Sally Struthers school,

I'm eagerly awaiting your insights to: Relativistic Quantum Field Theory and Statistical Thermodynamics of Complex Liquids

Oh, and a Watt is: a unit of heat expended over time, which has little to do with power, i.e. current, but thanks

[Ricardo]

Try re-reading the post.

Save the 2+2 mathematics for the novices that need simple linear equations, as they have little to do with the dynamics.
Good luck with the Sally Struthers school,

I'm eagerly awaiting your insights to: Relativistic Quantum Field Theory and Statistical Thermodynamics of Complex Liquids

Oh, and a Watt is: a unit of heat expended over time, which has little to do with power, i.e. current, but thanks

Errr..excuse me....but some people are really slow here....Could you repeat the question please???

[SKsolutions]

I agree with Zero, Joey, et al. You can drive the 9's well with a HK 635 or better. I put together a rig including plasma in less than two months, and the TV was purchase one, and the LSi9 was purchase two. I've evolved it from there and made some compromises since I've gone over my budget. I expected the possibility of relegating the AVR to a pre/pro after a week or two and finding a used 5ch on the 'bay, but am still enjoying being stunned at the dynamics of the combination of the AVR/LSi9's. Someone asked earlier if the HK 635 would deliver the 75 watts into 8 as 150 into 4. I no longer have the gear to measure such, but I can tell you it sure sounds like it's hooked up to a 150+ watt AMP, and not a "receiver". The HK is also rated conservatively at 50Amp of instant current and able to deliver it into a low impedance load. You can see why it was the only receiver I'd purchase, since I'd chosen the speaker I'd wanted first. If it didn't perform as it did, I'd have bought a separate amp straight away and spent the money right then.
Will the LSi9's sound better with a higher end amp. I'd say some will sound better, and some will sound worse. It's not the money you spend, but the design of the amp. Your odds just get better as you spend more. Better/More output transisters/Larger Caps/Toroid Trans/ works better with this speaker.
I have a fairly good ear, and I am not easily impressed by comsumer products, but this combo is quite dynamic. I've not heard a better combo for the money that is. Nearest would be a pair of Tannoy nearfields in a studio.

[SKsolutions]

HTrookie,

I was stating that simple numbers don't define the equation of an audio signal. There are some that believe in spec's because they don't know any different. I believe that spec's are as trustworthy as the source, and tell little of the whole story. Marketers market to what sells, and most people think "Watt" means how bright a bulb is, i.e. power, so marketers use that to market their AVR's or speakers etc. Technically a watt is a measure of heat, more like a calorie than a derivitive of current.
If you are a rookie, be skeptical. Claims are hard to disprove. Trust your ears and the opinions of those you respect. Do some searches on different gear, and go a lift up a well made Reciever or Amp and feel the difference. There is a reason a lot of people here have a lot of the same gear. Sorry if I was ranting, all watts are NOT created equal. Jusy ask the Tube guys.

[m-rorem]

I run my LSI system (9's, C, F/X, 7's) all off of an Integra Research RDA-7 (300x7 @ 4ohms) after multiple movie soundtracks at -15db from reference levels the IR never even get's more than slightly warm to the touch. Of course it is a very well designed amp connected to a dedicated a/c line on an open rack.

I agree more power is a good thing, but QUALITY is definitely most important factor when picking an amplifier to mate with the LSI series. Amp MUST not only be stable at 4 ohms but must be able to maintain it's output into loads much lower than that. In order for this to happen, the amps is going to have to have a VERY robust power supply, size DOES matter.

mrorem :)

[chase17]

I just picked up a B&K Reference 200.7 amp (375x7 @ 4ohms). Now i need a speaker upgrade.. Thinking about LSI's. I just want a substantial upgrade.

Pioneer Elite VSX56txi
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Sony SCD-C555ES
SA-3250HD Cable
B&K Ref200.2 amp (sold today)
************************
PSB Stratus Silveri main's (gloss black)
PSB Stratus C6i Center (gloss black)
PSB Image 10S sides
JBL HL10 rears
SVS PB2+ sub

[polkatese]

Nice, very nice! LSis would definitely be a logical next step, as far as upgrade is concern.

[bankshot]

Quick ? I have a Denon reciever. It is rated at 110w into 8ohms, no description of the 4ohms rating (prob not a good thing).

If I run an LSiC and 2 LSi9s (for the surrounds) on it and I set the Dynamic Range compression to max, will I have to worry about damaging the speakers or the reciever.

[cfrizz]

YES! Denon's are NOT designed to run 4ohm speakers by themselves.

[aiden]

I have a RTi setup that I think sounds pretty good, more for Movies than music. When I hear the music I feel it's a little bright. I have heard so much about the LSi speakers. I would love to hear them, but I don't know where to go? Does any one know where I mite go in Ohio to hear them? I live in the Akron/Canton area. It's hard to find anything above the Monitor speakers. HH greg, CC or BB is all I can find. Thank you for your help! :confused:

Denon 2900 universal
Yamaha 2400 Reciever
Monster 3500 Power
Anthem MCA 20
Anthem MCA 30
fronts:Rti 10's (biamped)
Center: CSi5 (biwired)
Surounds: RTi6's (Yamaha)
Backs: RTi6's (Yamaha)
Sub: HSU VTF MK2

[SKsolutions]

Limiting the dynamic range does nothing to change the native impedance of the speaker, just the amplitude of the signal, so NO, sorry. Denon as a pre/pro only.

[SKsolutions]

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