Leak turntable sounds TOO low with old philips amplifier

[u235vu239]

Hello.

I don't know much about these kind of things, so I'd very much appreciate the help of some of you guys.

I bought this old Philips amplifier. It plays fine with my Mustek cd player, but when it comes to the Leak turntable made by Lenco, it justs plays really low. I turn it up to the maximum, but it's still pretty ridiculous. I think the amplifier has 35 watts/8 ohm output for speakers. I have a 6 ohm pair of speakers.

I don't what cartridge I have, but I think it's quite good and sensitive. Would it play louder with a rougher cartridge? Doesn't the turntable have enough gain or something? What can I do to make the turntable play louder with this amplifier? It's awful. I'm affraid I've waisted money in vain.


Thank you.

[RuSsMaN]

Does the Phillips have a dedicated phono stage? Phono needs an additional (equalized) step-up / amplification stage to play properly.

[u235vu239]

Yes, it does! Thanks for the attention.

[heiney9]

If the Phillips has a dedicated phono stage, then your problem most likely lies with the cartridge. There are 2 types MM (moving magnet) MC (moving coil). I can't remember which is the general standard. My pre has switchable capacitance for both types. Look on the back of the Phillips and see, by chance, if it has a switch to accept both types of cartridges. If not, it would help to know what you currently have and then purchase/borrow the other type to see if this helps.

H9

[u235vu239]

If does have a dedicated phono stage, but it doesn't have a switch to accept both the types of cartridges that you mention.

I tried it with a Onkyo turntable that had a rougher "kind of nail" cartridge. I think it's pretty much "the other type". The sound did play a bit louder, but not much. Can you help me to distinguish both cartridge? And could it be something else besides the cartridge?

Thanks a lot for your time

[u235vu239]

Oh, one more thing. The entrances of the amplifier are all DIN, but I use RCA adaptors. Does that make the amplifier lose any gain/sound quality?

[steveinaz]

Moving coil cartridges generally need more gain the Moving magnet. If your Phillips has no switch, it's more than likely a Moving magnet input. Try a MM cartridge.

[u235vu239]

Moving coil cartridges generally need more gain the Moving magnet. If your Phillips has no switch, it's more than likely a Moving magnet input. Try a MM cartridge.


Hello. I tried a turntable of a friend of mine that has a MM cartridge. It didn't play louder than my Leak turntable switched to the philips amplifier. It played pretty much the same.


"If your Phillips has no switch, it's more than likely a Moving magnet input." ---> could it be a Moving Coil input?


Thanks.

[Tour2ma]

Unlikely that the Phillips has an MC phono stage.

What is the sound level if you plug the phono output into the input that works for your Mustek CDP? If it's the same as when you use the phono input, then your phono section may be dead.

As for the RCA-DIN adapters... added connections always offer the chance to degrade the signal, and especially when it's low level. Odds are this is not the issue, but we need to keep it in mind.

[u235vu239]

Unlikely that the Phillips has an MC phono stage.

What is the sound level if you plug the phono output into the input that works for your Mustek CDP? If it's the same as when you use the phono input, then your .

As for the RCA-DIN adapters... added connections always offer the chance to degrade the signal, and especially when it's low level. Odds are this is not the issue, but we need to keep it in mind.


The sound level, if I plug the phono output into the input that works for my Mustek CD Player, is much much lower! I almost can't hear a thing.

Thanks for your question and suggestions

[u235vu239]

If it's unlikely that the Phillips has an MC phono stage, how come did I try a turntable with an MM cartridge and the result was the same rather low volume?

[Dennis Gardner]

It sounds like you have a weak phono preamp section. It does stepup the volume compared to the line level inputs, as you noted, but is still weak. You can always use another phono preamp into a line level input to get the volume you need. This might be less expensive than trying to repair the weak phono section.

[Tour2ma]

Agree, DG, phono pre's can give out with age.

u235,
I'd you you got the same low volume because the cartridge on your leak is a MM, just as your friend's is.

Just for the record, what models are we talking about here?
The Phillips?
The cartridge on your Leak?
The cartridge on your friend's TT?

[u235vu239]

Agree, DG, phono pre's can give out with age.

u235,
I'd you you got the same low volume because the cartridge on your leak is a MM, just as your friend's is.

Just for the record, what models are we talking about here?
The Phillips?
The cartridge on your Leak?
The cartridge on your friend's TT?

The Philips is really old, from the early sixties or something. It only has STEREO written on it, with capital letters. No model number or anything.
My cartridge on the Leak turntable is a audio-technica. It only has the logo on it, so I can't really tell more about it. My friend has na MM Rega.



Thanks for the attention

[heiney9]

Sure sounds like an issue with the Phillips phono section. I didn't realize your unit was THAT old....er um...I mean vintage.

H9

[u235vu239]

Yes, I prefer the word old. But perhaps I exagerated when I said early 60ies. Maybe early 70ies. But it has a great sound with the mustek cd player. And it looks great, kind of like those old Leak amplifiers.
If it sounds great and warm with the mustek cd player, why shouldn't it do the same with the turntable?

[heiney9]

Yes, I prefer the word old. But perhaps I exagerated when I said early 60ies. Maybe early 70ies. But it has a great sound with the mustek cd player. And it looks great, kind of like those old Leak amplifiers.
If it sounds great and warm with the mustek cd player, why shouldn't it do the same with the turntable?

Hey I understand what you are saying....but the fact remains there is probably a problem w/the phono section. IMO, you have 3 options.

1) have the Phillips serviced to see if there is a fixable problem
2) hook your TT up to a different unit, yours or a friends and see if the problem persists
3) purchase an outboard phono pre-amp.

H9

[Tour2ma]

Yup... that about sums it up.

If it's that old and you really like it, taking it in for serviceing may be a good idea, even if there's an issue with the phono section that cannot be repaired.

EDIT: Not sure if we asked, but the Phillips is a solid state and not a tube unit... Correct?

[u235vu239]

I think it's a solid state. Or is it some sort of hybrid?... I can't really tell from what I've seen on the Internet. Is there any chance for it to be a mix of the two?

[Tour2ma]

There are hybrids... not sure if Phillips is/ was among them.

Can you post a picture?

[u235vu239]

I was desperately searching for a picture of it, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Thanks for all of the help.

[Tour2ma]

No camera either I take it?

No problem... Was trying to get a view to see if it is a tube integrated amp. If it is, then tubes in the phono section would be very likely candidate.

[BlueMDPicker]

Hey Bruce - maybe his TT is Leaking? :D

My suggestion: put a source into the phono inputs with higher output (CDP, tape deck, iPod). Gradually increase the source output and see if you get higher output from the Phillips, or just distorted same-level output.

IMO, higher output would mean a cheap phono stage could be added. Distorted output at same level means pop the hood and start looking for anything obvious that's discolored or leaking. One of the manual mongers may have a copy of the service manual available if you can identify the model.

Good luck!

[Tour2ma]

A variable output line source into the phono section....

Good thinking, Sparky...

[u235vu239]

Hey Bruce - maybe his TT is Leaking? :D

My suggestion: put a source into the phono inputs with higher output (CDP, tape deck, iPod). Gradually increase the source output and see if you get higher output from the Phillips, or just distorted same-level output.

IMO, higher output would mean a cheap phono stage could be added. Distorted output at same level means pop the hood and start looking for anything obvious that's discolored or leaking. One of the manual mongers may have a copy of the service manual available if you can identify the model.

Good luck!

If I plug the CD player into the phono input I get a much higher (distorted if I turn the volume to the maximum or even middle) sound.

Do you suggest I add a "cheap phono stage"? I don't really know what that means.

Thanks.

[u235vu239]

Is that the same as a "variable output line source "? How can I do that?

[Tour2ma]

Some home CD Players (CDP's) have fixed and variable outputs. Most portable CDP have variable outputs.

The way I am reading your test, I think you have a fixed output from your CDP, and the volume turning to which you refer is the volume control on your Phillips... Yes? If I'm right, stop running this way as high level inputs into your phono section can damage it.

1. Get a variable line source to the phono section. Strat with its volume/ output level very low.
2. Set the volume control on your Phillips to a low level, e.g., the 10 o'clock position and leave it there.
3. Gradually increase the level of the source input until it's audible, note how it sounds, paying attention to any distortion. IF it does not sound distorted, go to next step.
4. Gradually increase the level of the source input until it begins to distort. Stop the test at this point.

[BlueMDPicker]

Do you suggest I add a "cheap phono stage"? I don't really know what that means.

If your experimentation with modest increase in input signal strength to your phono input does not create distortion, yes.

Here (http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=BELLVP129) is a relatively inexpensive tube phono stage -- $199 -- that will handle MM and MC cartridges, with added bonus of headphone amplification.

http://audioadvisor.com/images/products/BELLVP129_000.JPG http://audioadvisor.com/images/products/additional/BELLVP129_820.JPG

[u235vu239]

Some home CD Players (CDP's) have fixed and variable outputs. Most portable CDP have variable outputs.

The way I am reading your test, I think you have a fixed output from your CDP, and the volume turning to which you refer is the volume control on your Phillips... Yes? If I'm right, stop running this way as high level inputs into your phono section can damage it.

1. Get a variable line source to the phono section. Strat with its volume/ output level very low.
2. Set the volume control on your Phillips to a low level, e.g., the 10 o'clock position and leave it there.
3. Gradually increase the level of the source input until it's audible, note how it sounds, paying attention to any distortion. IF it does not sound distorted, go to next step.
4. Gradually increase the level of the source input until it begins to distort. Stop the test at this point.


The volume turning to which Irefer is the volume control on my Phillips, yes.
So you suggest that I should get a discman into the phono section? And if the sound gradually gets distorted (starting at 10 o'clock) then I shouldn't get the "Tube Phono Stage/Headphone Amplifier", right?

Thanks for the attention.

[Tour2ma]

Do the test and let us know what you hear.

And there are very inexpensive phono pre's out there. For $20 you can get one that's won't be great, but will do what may be needed. So if it come to that, depending on what you can/ want to spend, there are options.