Healthcare Costs

[Mike Reeter]

Is anyone else fed up with the rising costs of healthcare? My wife suffers from an occastional Migraine Headache,I've had to take her to the Emergency Room twice to get a shot to relieve the pain...and knock her out...the only way to really get rid of the headache...

The last trip to the E.R. we were billed $1157.00 for a shot that probably had .50 worth of medication in it.

Fortunatly,we have Health Insurance,but with sizable deductables...

When my wife called the Hospital to question the bill,she was told that "people with insurance pay for the ones that don't"

Now,I sorry,but is this Bullshit in my book...

Small rant over,Thank you.

[venomclan]

The healthcare industry is so full of fraud it is scary. I recently went into the hospital for a diagnostic surgery/test. It could have been done outpatient for my 25 deductable but I wanted to be out because of the pain. It cost $12000.00. They charged $2000 to sit in recovery for 30 minutes. An ace bandage cost $400. Use of the room for 30 minute procedure was $3000. Are we insane?

The government needs to come in and take over fast. Lawyers and insurance companies are raping the American public. We are the most advanced country on the planet, but we have the most primitive health care system. every other industrialized nation has government health care. Except us. What is sad is that most hospitals havr to take care of every immigrant right off the boat. If you are a citizen you get nada.
Venom

[Mike Reeter]

Well said,The Healthcare Industry is about the only business left in this country that is not regulated by the Fed.

I'm not for Government control of anything,but...someone needs to do something...fast..

[Mazeroth]

It's big business at its best. Corporations are running the show now.

Here's a good story...

My buddy at work had a sharp pain in his stomache for a few hours and called his Mom. Not wanting to take any chances she took him to the ER to get it checked out. They did bloodwork and checked a few other things. When those came back normal they said he needed a cat-scan. That came back and the results were inconclusive. They sent him home, and two to three hours later he felt fine.

At this time, he didn't have any health insurance. When the bill came for the visit they were asking for $7,200! $1500 or so just for the ER visit, over $4000 for the cat-scan, and almost $2000 for the other tests. All of that and they had no idea what was wrong. It's like taking your car to the mechanic, letting them do a few tests on it and saying sorry, we don't know how to fix it, but you still owe us.

[Demiurge]

The government needs to come in and take over fast.

Yeah, just what we need....socialized medicine. So it's cheaper at the cost of never getting taken care of when you need it. That's insanity. :rolleyes:

[Dennis Gardner]

Living with the high costs of healthcare in the US beats the alternative.............passing away while on some other governments waiting list.

[janmike]

I do feel for you folks in the US when it comes to Health Care. While Canada is not perfect, I have never paid for anything in my life (doctor visits, drugs (the prescription kind that is), surgery. A lot of companies in Canada have full medical, dental, and drug plans free to employees. The gov't, while not great, looks after major things on a province by province basis. I have a few friends and relatives in the USA that have been hit hard with major medical bills.

[Demiurge]

Funny I was going to say that Canada is a perfect example of why to avoid socialized healthcare. You're paying for it, and so is everyone else. You also don't have the cream of the crop for doctors because it doesn't behoove someone to work for less when they can make more elsewhere on a competitive salary scale.

I know all about how high healthcare costs are, or should I say...health insurance costs. Businesses pay out the rearend for their employees to be covered. You see what's on your paycheck, but your employer needs to match dollar for dollar what you put into your medicare account. Not to mention the costs of health insurance...which varies from company to company, but is always extremely high.

End the frivolous law suits and you have a good start.

[RuSsMaN]

Try having none. PATOS. Pay At Time Of Service.

Now THAT is a bitch.

Count your blessings, no matter how small they are.

[bobman1235]

End the frivolous law suits and you have a good start.


That's a huge part of it. Doctors pay out the ass to keep themselves insured from asshole ambulance chaser lawyers and their moron clients.

[venomclan]

I never said lets be like Canada. All I am saying is that the health care industry can do anything they want with no restrictions. If they make a drug to cure a disease, they can charge whatever they want and justify it. The lawyers are driving the prices up. Stupid lawsuits. We have crisis now. Not enough doctors and nurses. They cannot afford to practice because of malpractice insurance sky high. Small businesses are going under from the weight of these costs. When the baby boomers retire, the amount of medicare costs will cripple the economy.

I think that if we send all our lawyers to Iraq, Al Queda will surrender.

[Ron-P]

Yep, the cost of healthcare sucks but it's a necessary evil.

Mike, is that shot the "Imitrex"? My wife had to get that shot many times for her migraines. Eventually, we found that the birth control pill was the main cause.

[Willow]

I do feel for you folks in the US when it comes to Health Care. While Canada is not perfect, I have never paid for anything in my life (doctor visits, drugs (the prescription kind that is), surgery. A lot of companies in Canada have full medical, dental, and drug plans free to employees. The gov't, while not great, looks after major things on a province by province basis. I have a few friends and relatives in the USA that have been hit hard with major medical bills.

Right, what I don't understand is our company drug plan wouldn't cover the Twinrex shots, neither will the gov. But If I came back sick with hepA or B. The gov. would flip the bill...go figure.

[shack]

Having the highest level of medical care and technology the world has ever known isn't cheap

[George Grand]

And that puts it out of the reach of a sizable portion of hardworking Americans. It's just so wonderful having this level of medical care and technology (if you can afford it).

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

[shack]

Then again there is always socialized medicine....mediocre care for everyone. I'm sorry not everyone is afforded the abosolute best there is in medical coverage. Like it or not, our health care system is the best there is. Due to our "flawed" system even the lowest on the socioeconomic level has access to healthcare the rest of the world can only dream about.

[aaharvel]

Funny I was going to say that Canada is a perfect example of why to avoid socialized healthcare. You're paying for it, and so is everyone else. You also don't have the cream of the crop for doctors because it doesn't behoove someone to work for less when they can make more elsewhere on a competitive salary scale.

I know all about how high healthcare costs are, or should I say...health insurance costs. Businesses pay out the rearend for their employees to be covered. You see what's on your paycheck, but your employer needs to match dollar for dollar what you put into your medicare account. Not to mention the costs of health insurance...which varies from company to company, but is always extremely high.

End the frivolous law suits and you have a good start.

agreed

[Danny Tse]

Don't forget there're many groups working to keep healthcare cost high, such as the drug manufacturers and the American Medical Association (AMA). These groups lobbied hard to defeat universal healthcare when it was proposed by the Clinton administration in the early 90s and later on when it was proposed for California. Sure, the silly lawsuits is one of the reasons healthcare cost is so high in this country. However, if you look into the components of the cost, the administration of our current system is actually costing us 30+ cents per dollar spend. Countries with universal healthcare systems, such as every other industrialized nation on the planet, use only half our cost for administration.

I do think the government need to step in. However, I seriously doubt our government, of either political leaning, has the political backbone to stand up to the lobbying efforts of those who can benefit the most from high healthcare cost. The idea is not to copy another country's system, but to take the best of other countries' idea and create our own unique universal healthcare system here. I hate to say it, but I don't think I will see that happening in my life time.

[polksda]

The biggest problem I see is that in order for a universal care system to be solvent, there would have to be certain illnesses/conditions that simply would not be covered. It would have to be basic/preventative coverage. Where do you draw the line? If you choose to cover the N most serious afflictions, a person that has been diagnosed with N+1 will sue and/or scream bloody murder why it's not covered too.

To cover everyone for heart attacks, strokes, cancer, accidental injuries, etc., the vast majority of "wishful thinking" types of procedures (plastic surgeries, fertility treatments) would have to go. You want? You pay.

It's an unpopular opinion, but I see no reason why, on an overpopulated planet, fertility treatments are covered by insurance at thousands and thousands of dollars per attempt.

Just about every government-run program of any magnitude is rife with incompetence and fraud. Not to say that the current privately-run system doesn't have fraud, but the last thing I want is another government boondoggle getting anywhere close to my health care... our government has PROVEN that it cannot run anything efficiently...

[Danny Tse]

Just about every government-run program of any magnitude is rife with incompetence and fraud. Not to say that the current privately-run system doesn't have fraud, but the last thing I want is another government boondoggle getting anywhere close to my health care... our government has PROVEN that it cannot run anything efficiently...

This is one of my fears of a government-run helthcare system as well. If this is to change, there must be fundamental changes to take place in order for such a system to work. It can certainly happen.....just look at the US Postal Service....several years ago, it was hundreds of millions dollars in the red. The USPS just announced it has made a profit of over a billion dollars last year.

[shack]

Countries with universal healthcare systems, such as every other industrialized nation on the planet, use only half our cost for administration.
They are also taxed out the ass to pay for average to poor health care. You want waste...let the government run the medical system.

I do think the government need to step in.
A recipe for disaster. As much as many hate the thought of profit in medicine...it is what drives the research and technology and creates the ability to provide medical breakthroughs and cure/control many diseases.

However, I seriously doubt our government, of either political leaning, has the political backbone to stand up to the lobbying efforts of those who can benefit the most from high healthcare cost. The idea is not to copy another country's system, but to take the best of other countries' idea and create our own unique universal healthcare system here. I hate to say it, but I don't think I will see that happening in my life time.
I hope I never see the government in charge of my healthcare...It will shorten my life by 20 years.

[MacLeod]

So ya want to government to step in and run healthcare. OK, Ill sign on as soon as you can name me one government organization (besides the military) that runs well.

The government cant deliver the mail, how is it going to run health care.

Also, all these countries with "free" health care have a tax rate that you wouldnt believe. Not only do you pay for it with 70% of your income going to taxes but you pay for it in your economy suffering from the extreme tax burden.

There was a protest sign I saw once when Hillary Care was being debated back in the 90's: Health Care Free ----- Big Mac $15 That kinda says it all.

Nobody is denied health care in this country. You can walk into an emergency room and they have to treat you.

And as for government regulation, its government regulation that keeps insurance premiums as high as they are! You know the bare bones plan in Kansas costs $170 a month while the bare bones plan in New Jersey costs $1000+?!? How can this be? Because the imperial federal government mandates you cant buy insurance policies outside your state and each state regulates the MINIMUM an insurance plan can cover and since you have no choice but to shop in New Jersey they can raise the minimum coverage as much as they want and drive up the cost of premiums. If the imperial federal government would allow you, if you lived in New Jersey, to shop for insurance plans in Kansas then in order to keep the New Jersey companies from going bankrupt would have to ease restrictions and regulations on New Jersey policies.

[CrBoy]

Let me chime in... (I know I live in a different, smaller country and all that crap so bear with me)

The healthcare is managed by the governemt here and while it's not perfect it works very good... we pay a monthly fee (deductable from our salary) of 9%, so the more money you make the more you have to pay, but everybody gets the same kind/quality of treatments.

Surgeries, cancer and AIDs treatments and such are covered... plastic surgery and fertility treatments are not (which makes a lot of sense to me)

Private treatments cost 20 times more and are just as good... but faster!

There are many crooks on the health businness here... people selling drugs/medication/treatments but for the most people the system works, it needs some improvement for sure but that's about everywhere!

[Danny Tse]

They are also taxed out the ass to pay for average to poor health care.

You're right about being taxed. The US enjoys one of the lowest tax rates amongst the industrialized countries.


As much as many hate the thought of profit in medicine...it is what drives the research and technology and creates the ability to provide medical breakthroughs and cure/control many diseases.

At the same time, the same drugs are much cheaper across the border in Canada. And our government forbid us to "re-import" that same drug back to this country so that we have to pay the drug manfacturers' inflated prices.

[madmax]

In the future I can see the possibility of an economy care service for those who need it. You sign a waiver preventing lawsuits, the whole system works like a Sams club with a membership and only general care problems are accepted. Most of what I see people going to doctors for could be handled by someones grandmother. Of course the higher profile stuff would still need a referal for specialized care at an even higher cost. For these referrals I can see the government flipping the bill.
madmax

[StopherJJ1980]

OK here is a very non-PC but VERY real world explanation of health care. Everyone thinks that health care is a right, and im sorry but thats just BS. It is a product and service and BUSINESS just like anything else. The only reason we have some of the great advances in drugs and health care that we do os because capitalism provides the financial motivation to do so. Then once the billions have been spent on research and development, testing, marketing and production, people then assume it is their RIGHT to access it cheaply. And Im sorry but you dont. Sure maybe your wife's meds had 50 cents of material in it (althoug im sure its an exaggeration) but it had millions if not billions of dollars going into deveoping it that need to be made back.

And tons of liberals love to point out how Canada has free health care but ask anyone from Canada and they'll tell you it sucks. So you have two choices. Capitalism promoting the best advances in medical technology at a high price, or socialism providing little motivation for advancement at a lower price. Again, capitalism makes the most advances, but it'll cost you and that just a fact of life. If you dont like it make more money. This may sound snobbish but I make 30k a year and still have this opinion, because its the reality of how things work.

[StopherJJ1980]

It's big business at its best. Corporations are running the show now.

Here's a good story...

My buddy at work had a sharp pain in his stomache for a few hours and called his Mom. Not wanting to take any chances she took him to the ER to get it checked out. They did bloodwork and checked a few other things. When those came back normal they said he needed a cat-scan. That came back and the results were inconclusive. They sent him home, and two to three hours later he felt fine.

At this time, he didn't have any health insurance. When the bill came for the visit they were asking for $7,200! $1500 or so just for the ER visit, over $4000 for the cat-scan, and almost $2000 for the other tests. All of that and they had no idea what was wrong. It's like taking your car to the mechanic, letting them do a few tests on it and saying sorry, we don't know how to fix it, but you still owe us.

YEAH, OF COURSE! Youre buddy could have waited abit longer and felt fine and paid $0. First of all he could have gone to county for free. But he probably went to a real hospital because he wanted to or was too dumb to know he could access free county care. And these people didnt strap him down to a gurney and force him to take these tests then pay for it, HE WANTED THEM! He had to ok them. These test are expensive, thats the fact. At a mechanic you still pay them for diagnostic test even if they dont fix your car, same as medical care.

And never mind your post says he didnt have medical insurance, well in my opinion, thats what you get when you dont get medical insurance. Thats why it is so important to everyone else.

[StopherJJ1980]

The healthcare industry is so full of fraud it is scary. I recently went into the hospital for a diagnostic surgery/test. It could have been done outpatient for my 25 deductable but I wanted to be out because of the pain. It cost $12000.00. They charged $2000 to sit in recovery for 30 minutes. An ace bandage cost $400. Use of the room for 30 minute procedure was $3000. Are we insane?

The government needs to come in and take over fast. Lawyers and insurance companies are raping the American public. We are the most advanced country on the planet, but we have the most primitive health care system. every other industrialized nation has government health care. Except us. What is sad is that most hospitals havr to take care of every immigrant right off the boat. If you are a citizen you get nada.
Venom

"It could have been done outpatient for my 25 deductable but I wanted to be out because of the pain. It cost $12000.00."

That is all you need to say. You "want"... you pay...
Its up to you if the cost is worth is.
Health care is NOT a right.

[venomclan]

"It could have been done outpatient for my 25 deductable but I wanted to be out because of the pain. It cost $12000.00."

That is all you need to say. You "want"... you pay...
Its up to you if the cost is worth is.
Health care is NOT a right.

"want" is a loose term. The procedure was a cystoctopy, if you are not sure what that is-a 14" rod is inserted in the penis as a diagnostic procedure. I had this done before while awake, never again.
Take your worst pain, multiply by 100. Because of the pain, the procedure cannot be done effectivly with the patient awake.The second time left me little choice.

I agree that healthcare is not a right. I, like many people work hard for a living and are fortunate to have health care through my employer. This has not always been the case for me and is the same for many people. Using Canada is a bad example. Most of their government systems are screwed up. I think that the U.S. can have a better system-for U.S. citizens only. Capitalism gives the U.S. the drive to be the best at everything, and we are. The U.S. pioneers more of everything, and then other countries copy it.
But there is a difference between capitalism and pure and obsessive greed. High prices can be met, raping people at every turn will drive the middle class under.
Venom

[markmarc]

Argumentative points for both sides:
Insurance costs to employers have risen at an annual rate of 15% over the past decade. The free market has been unable to adequately control costs.

Canadians, British wait sometimes months to have non-emergency surgery.

Both sides have huge flaws and problems.

In the US, doctors are forced by malpractice insurance carriers to order tests that are unnecessary in 99.9% of cases just for protection. Health insurance has to pay for unnecessary tests. It's a vicious circle that is going to force more and more employers to cut back or eliminate health care.

Eventually, unless huge tort reform is made, health care in the US will be a two-tier system. Basic gov't sponsored coverage. Then privately paid premiums for those who want extra care.

[Tour2ma]

I know all about how high healthcare costs are, or should I say...health insurance costs. Businesses pay out the rearend for their employees to be covered. You see what's on your paycheck, but your employer needs to match dollar for dollar what you put into your medicare account.But the tax rate on both is only 2.9%... not much of a rearend there. What is your business ponying up for private health insurance as a percantage of wage?

I am sure by now that Employer Indirect Payroll Costs (IPC) have risen to the point of being nearly dollar for dollar vs. direct wages (they were ~$0.80 per dollar the last budget cycle of my working days), but that's the total for all benefit's, including Federally mandated programs, 401k's, private health care. So 3% out of a total of 80+%... really worth calling that out. :rolleyes:... if you look into the components of the cost, the administration of our current system is actually costing us 30+ cents per dollar spend. Countries with universal healthcare systems, such as every other industrialized nation on the planet, use only half our cost for administration.Actually both systrems in the USA are much better than you are saying. Which is the more efficient, Private or Medicare? Surprise!Private plans typically have administrative costs eight to ten times that of Original Medicare. Whereas Medicare uses less than 2 percent of funds for administrative costs, private plans, on average, use 15 percent of funds for administrative costs.
Sources:
“Medicare Administrative Expenditures as a Percentage of Medicare Benefit Payments, 1979-2000," Medicare Chartbook, 2nd ed., Kaiser Family Foundation, Fall 2001.
Inspector General, Department of Health and Human Services, “Adequacy of Medicare's Managed Care Payments After the Balanced Budget Act of 1997," September 2000. I've seen more recent data, very similar, but could not find it on the web. I do think the government need to step in.It's not a matter of hoping the Gov will or won't... It is going to have to. Look around folks, the days of employer provided retiree health care benefits are going fast. So far I still have that option, but expect a letter any day now. Retirement Health Care is not, and never has been, a guaranteed benefit. Almost nightly we see another example of Corporate America dumping it's soon-to-be-former workers on the Government. And the cost of doing that is going to have to come from somewhere, so expect the Medicare tax to rise...

Frivilous lawsuits, fraud, etc., popular targets, but all drops in the proverbial bucket. The real reason health care costs are rising, and will continue to rise? A Catch 22 Joseph Heller would be proud of... More people are living longer.1. Medicare covers 41 million Americans, including 35 million people over age 65 and 6 million people under age 65 who have Medicare based on disability or End-Stage Renal Disease (ESRD). 1 The total Medicare population is projected to grow to 46 million in 2010, 61 million in 2020 and 77 million in 2030.
Source:“Data Book: Health Care Spending and the Medicare Program," MedPAC, June 2003My Mother is 80 now. She's still independent and active, but only thanks to procedures and med's that were not available even as recently as 20 years ago. Worth every penny I've paid in...

[Demiurge]

But the tax rate on both is only 2.9%... not much of a rearend there. What is your business ponying up for private health insurance as a percantage of wage?

We have 7 employees that take advantage of our private healthcare, quite a few others are using their spouses health insurance at much larger companies (Mercury Marine, Harley Davidson, and Kohler, Inc.). We're a really small business, but we serve large industry (Boeing, Pratt & Whitney AutoAir, Inc., GM, GE, etc, as well as lots of small manufacturers).

Anyhow...for those 7 people we paid $4,684.07/Mo. in private Healthcare costs in 2005. There is an SEC 125 Pop Plan in there as well, but that is in addition to the above costs.

Of those 7 people, 4 are an E, 2 are ES, 1 is ESC.

Medicare costs aren't as ridiculous as the private health insurance costs, and I didn't mean to convey that. It is surprising how many people don't know what's coming off of their paychecks and that it's matched dollar to dollar by their employers.

[I-SIG]

The government needs to come in and take over fast. Lawyers and insurance companies are raping the American public. We are the most advanced country on the planet, but we have the most primitive health care system. every other industrialized nation has government health care. Except us. What is sad is that most hospitals havr to take care of every immigrant right off the boat. If you are a citizen you get nada.
Venom

Let me get this straight: You want a government that wants to spend $230 million on a bridge to an island with 33 people on it in Bumblefuck, Alaska to manage YOUR health?

No goddam way.

Wes

[Tour2ma]

We have 7 employees that take advantage of our private healthcare, quite a few others are using their spouses health insurance at much larger companies (Mercury Marine, Harley Davidson, and Kohler, Inc.). We're a really small business, but we serve large industry (Boeing, Pratt & Whitney AutoAir, Inc., GM, GE, etc, as well as lots of small manufacturers).

Anyhow...for those 7 people we paid $4,684.07/Mo. in private Healthcare costs in 2005. There is an SEC 125 Pop Plan in there as well, but that is in addition to the above costs.

Of those 7 people, 4 are an E, 2 are ES, 1 is ESC.

Medicare costs aren't as ridiculous as the private health insurance costs, and I didn't mean to convey that. It is surprising how many people don't know what's coming off of their paychecks and that it's matched dollar to dollar by their employers.Thanks God that you've got some customer diversification there... So private health care is like 15% of direct wages for the seven???

What are "E, ES, ESC"?

"Dollar for Dollar" did have a "big read" to it. At first glance I took it to mean something completely different... You should have seen that reply... ;)

[Demiurge]

We pay all the healthcare for the plan (unless I am misunderstanding your question), at least all $4,684.07/Mo., but there is also a SEC 125 POP Plan they pay into which is a total of $213.22/wk. on average. That's not split down the middle 7 ways either, it's all got to do with what age bracket you fall into as well as who else is on the plan. That's the only portion of the private plan that they pay, as well as their obvious medicare costs each week. Healthcare costs would be much higher if we didn't do that plan. There was a time where we didn't pay anything off of our paychecks each week, but Healthcare costs have gone up so much we didn't have much of a choice for a while there.

If Soc. Sec is $558.11/wk., we pay $558.11/wk. If Medicare is $130.53/wk., we pay $130.53/wk.

We also pay into WI SUI & FUTA, which is basically money down the shitter each week because we really haven't had to lay anyone off in a while, but I do understand it. It just seems to be a bit of a racket considering the ammount we pay into it each week.

I mean, there is tax implications for all of this stuff both ways, but taxes here are I believe the highest in the country. Tack on those high healthcare costs and it can really put a choke hold on small business when you have a slowing trend in manufacturing purchases.

E = Employee
ES = Employee & Spouse
ESC = Employee, Spouse, and Child(ren).

Costs go up exponentially in that order.

[Mike Reeter]

Very valid points,I'm grateful to have Health Insurance,and I know we in U.S. enjoy the"best of the best" I just hate the thought of being raped...

[MacLeod]

All this talk about $400 band-aids and $100 asperin reminded me of an old joke.

A shop manager had a maching quit working so he called in a technician. The tech showed up, tinkered with the maching a bit and then reached in his toolbox, pulled out a hammer and stuck the machine one good time. Bingo the machine started working. When the manager got the bill it was for $5000!

The manager was furious and called the technician's company and demanded to be sent an itemized bill. The next day the manager received the itemized list.

Hitting maching with hammer - $5
Knowing where to hit the machine with a hammer - $4995

I guess the moral of the story is that youre not paying $400 for the band-aid but rather the extreme knowledge and expertise of the person that treated you so all you needed was a band-aid as opposed to your leg rotting off from infection.

Watch doctors perform operations sometime on Discovery Health. It is simply aweinspiring the knowledge and skill these people possess. All that doesnt come cheap.

Just a thought.

[aaharvel]

YEAH, OF COURSE!And never mind your post says he didnt have medical insurance, well in my opinion, thats what you get when you dont get medical insurance. Thats why it is so important to everyone else.

that's an asshole suggestion if i've ever heard one Stopher. "That's what you get when you dont get medical insurance." Are you kidding me?!?!?

Did it ever occur to your peabody of a brain that maybe (not saying) he can't afford health insurance or maybe he works at a job that doesn't provide for insurance- hence prob. the fact that he can't afford it? Millions of Americans are in this predictment as we speak. And the vast majority of them are NOTwelfare whores.

OR maybe he has a medical condition that forces his premiums to skyrocket above his budget?

I have epilepsy and had my first seizure in between my last job at Lowes Co. and when I went back to school. 2months later i had another one. 1 week later i had another one. 4months later i had another one. Guess what? No one would insure me and if they did the INSURANCE PREMIUMS WERETOO HIGH for me to pay for. I'll prob. be paying for this for the rest of my life..

use your brain and stop dumbing everything down to "well he either has health insurance or it's fault that he doesn't"- or Republican good, Liberal bad... what a crock of shit. and oh yeah speaking of "TONS OF LIBERALS?" I'm a Liberal and i'm not for Socialistic healthcare. But I also know that our own medical system has its faults. BOTH SYSTEMS HAVE THEIR PROS AND CONS. And please, PLEASE name 20 Liberals BY NAME that favor Canadian-style healthcare. I'm so anxious to hear the names of a TON of Liberals..

Oh no, you're not being political at all. Wake up tomorrow and have a Grand-Mal, then we'll talk.

What a dick

[Demiurge]

Mac-

While you're right about that, there is a lot of outright price gouging. Most of these prices DO stem from the costs of insurance for the doctors agains malpractice suits and what have you. To me, that's square one. If we don't put an end to all of the abulance chasers and the people trying to win the lottery on bullshit suits these costs are going to keep rising. There's so many dynamics to this issue, but for me that is the starting ground.

Doctors should get paid for their skill, no doubt. More of the money should go there way instead of to the insurance companies and then ultimately to the trial lawyers.

[aaharvel]

i agree a big problem if not the major one is out of control mal-practice lawsuits that can't be substantiated. The question though is, where do you draw the line with what qualifies as a strong case or not? I honestly don't know- and that's what sucks about it. Is it a problem that can ever be solved?

[Demiurge]

i agree a big problem if not the major one is out of control mal-practice lawsuits that can't be substantiated. The question though is, where do you draw the line with what qualifies as a strong case or not? I honestly don't know- and that's what sucks about it. Is it a problem that can ever be solved?

If I knew the answer to that i'd be a rich man myself....wait... :p Damnit! :cool:

In all honesty I don't know how you'd solve it. Most trial lawyers go after entities with deep pockets, and then these entities settle for fear of the $100 Million Dollar lien against them (or whatever large sum you want to come up with). With that fear looming over their heads they're almost stupid not to settle...so I don't know. You may start by putting limits on the rewards.

Whatever happened to the idea of an accident? Shitty things happen to people, but since when does that entitle us to huge sums of money for it?

I had a lady hit me on the way home from work one night. She hit me as she was decelerating from 45MPH while I was just about to a complete stop at a light. Sent me sailing through the intersection into oncoming traffic, and she ended up taking down 2 traffic lights. She turned out to be intoxicated just under the legal limit when a blood test was done. So...she was drunk, but didn't get pinched for it. I didn't go to the hospital (I was fine, back a little messed up) and just had things worked out between our insurance companies. I could have sued her, but why? She ended up filing for bankruptcy after all was said and done and she got her just punishment. I recouped my lost property and that was the end of it. It was still an accident.

[aaharvel]

yup that's pretty much it- no answer. I don't think anyone has one.

And Stopher if i was rough with you earlier I apologize, but only half-heartedly.
Put yourself into other peoples health and financial positions before you rant about the gray areas of being insured.

No, I still don't have insurance. No one will insure me as the risk is too high. No fault of mine. None at all. But I am an American. I do pay taxes. So does the government have some obligation to help me ? You goddamn right. And they do- i get my medicine for free through the Epilepsy Foundation. And if anyone thinks that i'm a whore of the financial sort (lol) they can kiss my ass. :D

[Demiurge]

Well...putting settlement/reward restrictions in would help. The real joke of it is that the bulk of the money goes to the lawyers, not the 'victim'.