2 channel on the cheap....

[TroyD]

I was sitting here thinking....and I could be talking out of my arse (as is the case a lot)...but it seems that most folks labor under the impression that a good 2 channel separates system has to cost an arm and a leg.

I for one think that it just isn't so with the plethora of QUALITY used items out there you can build a good mancave 2 ch rig very inexpensively....

In my situation:

Dahlquist DQ-10's - 280
Carver m1.5t - 250
Adcom SLC-505 - 75
AMC cd8b - 175 (new)
Signal cable interconnects - 60
14 ga lampchord - 10 bucks, maybe

All in, I got 850 in the whole rig......not bad I think.....

Point is, I think that folks can do it, and do it on a budget...

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

Agreed Troy, the rig I used in the KEF review as follows:

ADC 16/2r cd player - $25
Carver m400a Cube amp - $110
Nad 1130 pre (arriving this week) - $60 (Lux R113 was only $35)
Signal Cable Interconnects - $60
14awg wire - $10
KEF Cresta 2 - $125
Stands - $35
Homemade Flexy rack - $40

Total, a whopping $405, $330 for the gear itself......

Cheers,
Russ

[Aaron]

While all this is true, I've had some bad experiences with used gear. I'm sure there's some good used stuff out there, though. The used stuff just doesn't give me that pride of ownership. There's nothing like taking a brand new piece out of the box. I guess it would be different if you could see and touch the piece ahead of time (unlike eBay, the forum, etc.).

Aaron

[RuSsMaN]

Used doesn't give you 'pride of ownership'?

Man, worry a little less about the Glitz and Label, and more about the sound.....

You have a food-stamp 2ch system put together, don't you? Run it down for us....

Cheers,
'Confused to hear Aaron say that' Russ

[Aaron]

I like my gear in perfect condition, and if it's glitzy that's a bonus. I put my 2-channel system together for under $500 (since I already have a CD player). It sounds good for $500, but it doesn't sound good to me. Once you've heard the good stuff, you're ruined. I'm sure I could improve the system a bit with tweaking, but it won't satisfy me.

Aaron

[rskarvan]

Nothing wrong with used Krell.
Yes, its still expensive... but, it holds its resale value well - assuming it was purchased smart on the used market.

I'd rather buy used and have the ability to resell and get 95% of my money back than buy new and resell at 40% return.

Used electronics that is. I think speakers should be new - as, they are easily damaged by misuse - clipping receivers, etc.
But, for everything else... nothing wrong with used at all ! ! !

[RuSsMaN]

Yeah, I agree, even 'high-end' gear, why buy new. (my one exception being CD players) I have bought 3 used cd players, all arrived with one or more issues....that I trust they did not leave with...

I won't be seeing Krell anytime soon, I'm pretty hip to the 'dollar-per-watt' (or less) used amp theory.....

My m200t was $.58/watt, the m400a came in at $.54/watt.

Speakers are a toss up, I've had 10+ good (intact no damage) speaker experiences, used and shipped, 1 bad due to Ups. I'm not afraid to buy speakers used, and have them shipped, but a local deal (and demo) is always preferable....

Original packaging is a big plus, NEVER had a problem with original packaging.....

Cheers,
Fred Sanford

[TroyD]

I, however, am not any more proud of a new item than a used item.

Good gear is good gear, IMO, regardless of age. IE: in terms of sound quality, I will stack my DQ's up against most anything out there today.

I think it depends, obviously my system is not a 25K B&W/Krell setup and if you use that as a basis for comparison, then not much will ever satisfy you.......but for 850 dollars, I'm VERY satisfied with my setup.

When buying used gear as with anything else, if I don't have a warm fuzzy from the seller, I walk away.........


BDT

[mantis]

I'm with Aaron on this one,
I'm not a fan of used gear.I like buying new, I have all my life.And will for the rest of it.We get in a lot of used gear at our store,I look at it from time to time and have demo'd ton's of it.
If you guys are happy with buying used...more power to yeah.
I like the smell of fresh new gear out of the box.

You can get some killer deals on used gear.I have seem many good Adcom's ,B&K stuff,Audio Research preamps,etc............
I guess I can see why you wouldn't want to pay retail for the good stuff.It get's way up there in price.
I don't pay retail,But thats an advantage of working in the field.

One man's trash is another's tresure........

But in audio.....used or new..........I need to hear it go first.I can't buy anything off of faith.....................just don't happen.

[TroyD]

Is there really a difference in performance though?

Does a speaker (or amp/preamp) that is 10yrs old perform worse than a brand new one?

Granted, I understand the desire for new stuff and certainly don't knock it but practically speaking, if an item is in good condition, theoretically it should perform at the same level?

Thoughts?

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

I don't see any reason to buy new, without searching used first, unless you have an inside source, friend, discounts...yadda yadda....

Sometimes, you don't have a choice, what you want you may not be able to find used. But butter my ass and call me a biscuit, I have found TONS of kick-ass used deals over the years....

Some I keep, some I pass the deal on to a brotha in need, some I turn for some coinage.....

Cheers,
Russ

I agree with the 'new' smell, but there is something to be said about that 'thirft-store/pawn shop/grandma's house' smell too.....

[TroyD]

the best feeling is when you catch one of those rare finds or get a great deal on a cool piece of gear....

280 for a pair of DQ-10's....I still grin about that.


BDT

[weavercr]

280 for a pair of DQ-10's....I still grin about that

Thats better than the Denon POA 2400a I got for 25.00

I am still working on mine "new" 2ch rig. Heres what I have so far:


Polk Rti 55 - $400 (new)
Denon POA2400a - $25
Denon DCD 590 - $10





As for how it will sound, I will post when I get it completed.

[hoosier21]

90% of what I buy is used. I have had some really great stuff to play with and like rskarvan said, I get 90-110% of my money back when I sell it to buy something else. But I am a poor white boy, if I had the cash, I might buy all new.

There is a risk, UPS damage, lying bastards, crooks and thieves.

But for the most part, I have found people in this hobby are honest and good people.

[weavercr]

QUOTE]You can get some killer deals on used gear.I have seem many good Adcom's ,B&K stuff,Audio Research preamps,etc............ [/QUOTE]



Now If we could get Mantis to hook us up I bet we could get some killer deals on used equipment.

[TroyD]

"Now If we could get Mantis to hook us up I bet we could get some killer deals on used equipment." - now there is a GREAT idea!

I just think if you rule out used, you eliminate the option of TONS of great equipment. Plus I am not morally conflicted by letting the original owner take it in the shorts for the initial markup.

However, if you have all the money in the world, there is no need for option.

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

Now If we could get Mantis to hook us up I bet we could get some killer deals on used equipment.

I don't know, might be nice to hear about his open box buys, but I think Aaron has already attached at the hip, you'll have to wait in line...... :eek:

Cheers,
Russ

[TroyD]

//in my ring announcer voice//

RuSsMaN...off the top turnbuckle.....KA-BOOOM!



Mean Gene

[Aaron]

Consider your ass buttered, biscuit-boy!

Aaron

[TroyD]

NOW who is the the ass-slammer?


BDT

[Aaron]

Try as hard as you like, but no one will ever take that title away from you.

Aaron

[TroyD]

hey, I'm NOT the one talking about buttering Russ's biscuit....................

Hey, I have a completely clear conscience.

BDT

[Aaron]

Hey, I have a completely clear conscience.
You give a whole new meaning to the saying "sweet taste of revenge." Yuck! :eek:

Aaron

[TroyD]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

BDT

[mantis]

So you guys want good deals on used gear..........we have a ton of it.How about a used B&K 2 channel amp for a killer price.We have an Adcom gfa555 sitting and waiting for a new home.
Anyone want some DYnaudio 8's(might have to get in the ring with Aaron first)these are some killer sounding floor standing speakers.We have tons and tons of used gear.We sell it at the best possible price.
If you let me know what you are in the market for I might be able to come up with it....by the way we have miles of used wire.....Transparent,straight,tributaries,Monster, etc............

[juice21]

i really need to get down to your store. :D

[BBUBBA]

What B+K 2 channel amp??? or amps do you have used ???

Reference series??? big?????

you can E-mail me at jjeeffvv@msn.com

thanks!!:lol: :lol:

[weavercr]

Does your Store have a WEB site?

Whats the name of your store and where is it located?

What B&K equipment do you have?

drop me an email weavercr@comcast.net

[hoosier21]

I can see a feeding frenzy about to start here.

Mantis we all want to know what you have and for how much, this could make you salesman of the month :D

[joe6pak]

Wow Mantis. They are right. Bet you could make salesman of the month. Do you ship UPS? Let the feeding frenzy begin.

joe

[mantis]

Sorry guys,
But I'm not a salesman,just an Installer.Our website is www.soundexonline.com...........this is not a link.
We are in Willow grove Pa.
It would be wise to check out our web page,if you live close enough, take the trip.Many amps used ready for a new home.
The B&K amp I mentioned is an st140 with a rack mount face plate, for those of you that have a middle alantic rack(like me I have 2).
Spell out a wish list I can tel lyou if we have something.
I don't normally sell unless Im on the job in a customer's house and modifing there system.

[mantis]

Ok it is a link www.soundexonline.com

[gidrah]

TroyD: I remember when you got your DQ-10s. I didn't realize what you paid. Damn dude! Awesome.

Mantis: Nice site and store. The car out front was very appropriate. I tried the Used Gear section and could only get transparent cables. I'll try again later. Old computer.

Used gear in general: Heck yeah! Some stuff just isn't made like it used to be. When it is it costs too much. I bought a pair of used Altecs off E-bay just because I like the price. It worked out well.

My 2ch rig: @ $350
Monitor Bronze Series 2 spkrs @ $200 used
Dynaco ST-120A amp @ $99
Dynaco Pat-4 pre @ $51
Cables, wire, Playstation (CD) used by me and sitting around collecting dust. It sounds great!

[RuSsMaN]

All I see used are cables.....

Do they post any open box gear on the site? If they don't , maybe they should...

Cheers,
Russ

[TroyD]

Thanks Mark....yeah, 280 for the DQ's is one of the all time great scores. Especially since, operationally, they are flawless. Within the last 5 yrs they were completely redone (all drivers, wiring and crossovers)

I have been thinking, based on a conversation with Russ, that in terms of new gear, I would probably be looking at the better part of 5K to rival my gear in terms of sound quality. (edit) Actually, I was just reading some of the paperwork on the DQ's and they went for 700 a pair, new, in 1974. Translate that to 2002 dollars and 5K may be an overly conservative estimate......

Flame and scoff if you want, the B&W demo that Russ and I did, with the same amp, I wouldn't be ashamed of the DQ-10 performance.


BDT

[Aaron]

What cost $700 in 1974 would cost $2683.55 in 2001.

--- http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

Aaron