View Full Version : SDA SRS 2.3 Setup Question
This was brought up in the thread Looking for SDA's? Updated info here! I thoughtit would be better to discuss it in this forum than in the for sale catagory.
This has been a point of confusion for me for a while and I would like to get it cleared up. The question is what is the correct setup for the SDA SRS 2.3 speakers not the 2.3 TL's. A sellers speakers show the right speakers with the larger speaker array to the outside (see photo). This photo is the one of the speaker labled as the labeled right speaker. The manual shows the dimensional array speakers are in the group of 4 speakers (see photo). I have these set up per the manual and plates on the rear of the speaker.
Is there a way by looking at the crossover to determine which speakers are actually the SDA speakers and whiich are the line source speakers? Also if anyone has a copy of the SDA SRS 2.3TL manual are the speakers labled the same as shown in the 2.3 manual as shown below? From everything I have read on this forum the SDA drivers should be on the outside of the speakers when setup. I will be switching the speakers tonight to see if there is an improvement in the soundstage, but would prefer not to have to move these several times since they are a pain to move around.
I can't seam to attach the other photos for some reason
Tour2ma
02-04-2006, 01:21 PM
Pics may be too big...
The Manual is wrong. Here's proof (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/closeup.php?userid=60693&pic=176_21_big.jpg) from the SCPolkfest... TroyD would not have his set up incorrectly.
EDIT:
Plus the "SDA Compendium" states for both the 2.3 and 2.3tl:
"The two SDA bass-midrange drivers along the outside edge of the speaker... The ... four stereo drivers along the inside edge...."
Want absolute proof? Have a 2.3 owner unplug his SDA IC...
candyliquor35m
02-04-2006, 01:33 PM
Tour,
Those are 2.3tl's which might have changed. On my 2.3's, the column of 4 midrange drivers are on the outside.
Good idea I will unplug the cabe before I move them.
Tour2ma
02-04-2006, 01:42 PM
Well, if I am wrong, at least I have good company...
Awaiting test results...
danger boy
02-04-2006, 01:42 PM
i too would say that the SDA drivers belong on the outside edge. that gives your the openness and the surround sound effect. in later models like the 2.3TL, and others... they used fewer SDA drivers.. Just like in the CRS+, only one tweeter was used in those.. they realized you don't need as many SDA tweeters.
Tour2ma
02-04-2006, 01:45 PM
db,
Question here is whether the SDA and Stereo MW's are mixed on the same side of the cabinet as shown in Post #1's attachment.
Upon further review... No way the manual is right as shown. The FR's overlap too much and would muttle the SDA effect...
F1nut
02-04-2006, 02:02 PM
This info is from Polk Audio's schematic drawings which I take as the truth.
SDA SRS 2.3:
The two drivers by themselves are the STEREO drivers. The group of four drivers contains two DIMENSIONAL drivers (in the middle) and two SUB BASS drivers (top and bottom). This driver arrangement is totally different than any other SDA speaker.
SDA SRS 2.3TL:
The two drivers by themselves are the DIMENSIONAL drivers. The group of four are all STEREO drivers.
The 2.3 and 2.3TL speakers are entirely different from each other and the set up is the complete opposite.
The sellers speakers on eBay are two right channels.
candyliquor35m
02-04-2006, 02:12 PM
F1,
that's what my manual says too
Well I disonnected the cable and the majority of sound is coming from the 2 seperate drivers. So that would make the 2 in the array of 4 the SDA components.
Now another question. There is still sound coming from the 2 sda drivers even with the cable disconnected. So I pulled a driver to be sure it was not an effect of being coupled to the cabinet. The speakers are still producing some bass, but not like when the cable is connected. Anyone ever check this out before with the SDA's in their speakers? I assume this is present all of the time due to crossover design of the older 2.3 model. This model is the one with the blade pin interconnect that only uses one wire so disconnecting the speaker wires and only having the interconnect will produce no noise at all from that speaker.
I have done all of the diagnostic testing that Ken from Polk CS sent me and everything checked out measurement and sound wise. All resistance measurements and sound checks were OK.
F1nut
02-04-2006, 02:22 PM
JCL, see my post above. Your 2.3's are working exactly as designed including the reduced sound from the SDA drivers when the IC is disconnected.
george daniel
02-04-2006, 02:30 PM
This info is from Polk Audio's schematic drawings which I take as the truth.
SDA SRS 2.3:
The two drivers by themselves are the STEREO drivers. The group of four drivers contains two DIMENSIONAL drivers (in the middle) and two SUB BASS drivers (top and bottom). This driver arrangement is totally different than any other SDA speaker.
SDA SRS 2.3TL:
The two drivers by themselves are the DIMENSIONAL drivers. The group of four are all STEREO drivers.
The 2.3 and 2.3TL speakers are entirely different from each other and the set up is the complete opposite.
The sellers speakers on eBay are two right channels.
Thanks Jesse, I thought that they were the right side also,but after reading the numerous posts,I was beginning to get confused(which at times,is not difficult) :)
Thanks for the help everyone! Found out some interesting things today about 2.3's and 2.3 tl's. One other thing does anyone remember someone on ebay trying to sell two right speakers together before? I think someone was within the last year and was wondering of these were the same missmatched pair that I remember seeing.
george daniel
02-04-2006, 02:41 PM
Thanks for the help everyone! Found out some interesting things today about 2.3's and 2.3 tl's. One other thing does anyone remember someone on ebay trying to sell two right speakers together before? I think someone was within the last year and was wondering of these were the same missmatched pair that I remember seeing.
Yep, but I cannot remember which model/side, I wan :confused: t to say,2.3's,,left side
Tour2ma
02-04-2006, 04:08 PM
A guy in Texas was selling two same channel 1.2tl's a while ago.
As for the 2.3's having mixed MW's, all I can say is throw me in a dress and call me Sally... Learned something new today...
EDIT: I know something else now as well... I could never listen to naked 2.3's... would eff with my mind too much (and it can't take much more effing).
george daniel
02-04-2006, 04:16 PM
A guy in Texas was selling two same channel 1.2tl's a while ago.
As for the 2.3's having mixed MW's, all I can say is throw me in a dress and call me Sally... Learned something new today...
EDIT: I know something else now as well... I could never listen to naked 2.3's... would eff with my mind too much (and it can't take much more effing).
I feel your pain :D
BobMcG
02-04-2006, 04:29 PM
This info is from Polk Audio's schematic drawings which I take as the truth.
SDA SRS 2.3:
The two drivers by themselves are the STEREO drivers. The group of four drivers contains two DIMENSIONAL drivers (in the middle) and two SUB BASS drivers (top and bottom). This driver arrangement is totally different than any other SDA speaker.
SDA SRS 2.3TL:
The two drivers by themselves are the DIMENSIONAL drivers. The group of four are all STEREO drivers.
The 2.3 and 2.3TL speakers are entirely different from each other and the set up is the complete opposite.
The sellers speakers on eBay are two right channels.
Just noticed this thread and Jes has saved me a lot of typing. (Once again) I have the 2.3s whereas my brother has the 2.3tls. Naked, they look just the opposite of each other when setup properly. My fours are outer-edge while his are inner-edge.
BTW: SDA drivers are always outer-edge.
BobMcG
02-04-2006, 04:38 PM
In the thumbnail in JCLs first post, you are looking at a left channel 1.2 and a right channel 2.3.
If the right channel speaker were a 2.3TL you would see the row of 4 mids on left side of the cabinet rather than the right. The outer row of drivers are always the dimensional drivers though. That doesn't change.
Tour2ma
02-04-2006, 04:47 PM
This info is from Polk Audio's schematic drawings which I take as the truth.Now that I'm looking as well, I see the same thing.
Jesse, is the 2.3 schematic showing that the 6513 "sub-bass" drivers are receiving the SDA feed? I know that at low enough freq's, the source doesn't matter, but seems like an odd approach.
BobMcG
02-04-2006, 05:00 PM
SDA SRS 2.3:The two drivers by themselves are the STEREO drivers. The group of four drivers contains two DIMENSIONAL drivers (in the middle) and two SUB BASS drivers (top and bottom). This driver arrangement is totally different than any other SDA speaker.
Man am I slipping. This is correct. I completely forgot this. :o
loh_kg
02-04-2006, 09:47 PM
My 2.3tl 4 midrange drivers are on the inside,if I disconnected the interconnect cable and the sound is ONLY coming from the 4 midrange drivers on the inside.
http://sg.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/loh_kg/detail?.dir=e311&.dnm=39c8.jpg&.src=ph
BobMcG
02-04-2006, 11:02 PM
My 2.3tl 4 midrange drivers are on the inside,if I disconnected the interconnect cable and the sound is ONLY coming from the 4 midrange drivers on the inside.
http://sg.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/loh_kg/detail?.dir=e311&.dnm=39c8.jpg&.src=ph
Right, as the dimensional drivers are always on the outside edges. With the 2.3s (Not 2.3TL) being the exception :)
To add: It's the two "loaded drivers" (top/bottom) on the 2.3s that are stereo drivers on the outer edges of this model.
F1nut
02-05-2006, 02:22 AM
Jesse, is the 2.3 schematic showing that the 6513 "sub-bass" drivers are receiving the SDA feed? I know that at low enough freq's, the source doesn't matter, but seems like an odd approach.
Bruce,
No, the two 6513 drivers are not dimensional as Bob correctly stated, "It's the two "loaded drivers" (top/bottom) on the 2.3s that are stereo drivers on the outer edges of this model."
Just a thought on the ones on Ebay. Couldn't you use a router to make new location for 2 of the speakers, plug the old holes, and move the components to the proper position and then you would have a lefthanded version? I believe the crossover design is the same for both left and right speakers in the SDA design so repositioning the drivers should be all that is required. Now the starting bid price is too high for all that work but if the seller cut the price in 1/2 I would think that would be a pretty fair deal after modification.
Tour2ma
02-05-2006, 11:39 AM
Could you? Yes... but that's a lot of trouble... Maybe disassemble a cabinet and flip it?Well I disonnected the cable and the majority of sound is coming from the 2 seperate drivers. So that would make the 2 in the array of 4 the SDA components.
Now another question. There is still sound coming from the 2 sda drivers even with the cable disconnected. So I pulled a driver to be sure it was not an effect of being coupled to the cabinet. The speakers are still producing some bass, but not like when the cable is connected.Probably an artifact of the common ground, i.e. the "disconnected SDA drivers are still seeing some (1/2?) of the voltage potential. But I am not 100% clear on where you are saying the sub-bass (hockey puck) drivers reside in the scheme of things... stereo or dimensional duty?
Jesse...
Trusting you, but trying to verify.... ;)
Where the sub-bass get their signal cannot be determined from the schematic in the compendium (Drawing Number P0162003 Rev: 0) that I can see. In the 2.3's the sub-bass white wire terminates in the dimensional ground, but it's tied to the stereo negative, so can't tell from it. Not enough detail at the drivers. Are you looking at a different schematic?
Still seems to me that he sub-bass location (and mere existance) complicates things tremendously.... the dimensional drivers are always on the outside edges. With the 2.3s (Not 2.3TL) being the exception :)I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant to say, Bob.
The 2.3's Dimensional Drivers are to the outside. Their exception is that the 2.3 is the only SDA model where there are more drivers to the outside, thanks to the sub-bass arrangement. In all other SDA models the stereo drivers are kept together and thus the inside drivers equal or exceed the number of outside drivers.
I am starting to think that Polk did this on purpose and Matt is reading this and laughing his ass off...
Probably an artifact of the common ground, i.e. the "disconnected SDA drivers are still seeing some (1/2?) of the voltage potential. But I am not 100% clear on where you are saying the sub-bass (hockey puck) drivers reside in the scheme of things... stereo or dimensional duty?
I am starting to think that Polk did this on purpose and Matt is reading this and laughing his ass off...
I believe that the sub-bass drivers are working off the stereo signal. Without seeing a schematic its hard to tell since they only handle the lower frequency. How do I locate a copy of the wiring schematics for the original 2.3's? I have read about a compendium but can not find a link to it. Is it available online?
BobMcG
02-05-2006, 12:23 PM
Right, as the dimensional drivers are always on the outside edges. With the 2.3s (Not 2.3TL) being the exception :)
To add: It's the two "loaded drivers" (top/bottom) on the 2.3s that are stereo drivers on the outer edges of this model.
What this means is that in general the dimensional drivers are always the outside edge drivers, with the exception of the original 2.3. Jes is right in stating that there are dimensionals and stereo drivers sharing the outside edges of the 2.3s. Its the top and bottom drivers on the "dimensional" side that are stereo drivers.
(Not the very first issues of the original 2.3 but soon after they came out Polk changed the top and bottom drivers on the outer edges to "loaded drivers", the ones with the donuts on them. This was to control the bass.)
BobMcG
02-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Just a thought on the ones on Ebay. Couldn't you use a router to make new location for 2 of the speakers, plug the old holes, and move the components to the proper position and then you would have a lefthanded version? I believe the crossover design is the same for both left and right speakers in the SDA design so repositioning the drivers should be all that is required. Now the starting bid price is too high for all that work but if the seller cut the price in 1/2 I would think that would be a pretty fair deal after modification.
Nope. That'd be like tring to make SRSs into 1.2s.
Not only are the cabinets different but so are the crossovers and tweeters. To Add: Not to mention the mids aren't all the same either.
Tour2ma
02-05-2006, 12:39 PM
Bob,
Just the way I am reading the first line of your self-quoted post. Taken alone, it means something different to me. But it would not be the first time I have had a different "take" on something... I'm used to it.. :)
JCL,
Sounds like the Sub-bass are indeed getting the stereo feed. Would you mind doing one more check for confirmation?
With the SDA IC in place, check the left speaker with either the balance all the way to the right channel or the left speaker's speaker wire disconnected.
Should remove the remaining trace of doubt I have...
Yes, i are an engineer... or at least i were one... :p
As to your questions... find and PM Club member DarqueKnight, AKA "Raife". He is the author, compiler and sole purveyor of "The SDA Compendium". Not free, but worth owning...
BobMcG
02-05-2006, 12:50 PM
Here's my "opinion" of the 2.3/2.3TL situation. I do have the 2.3s so I'm quite familar with them. Love them! My brother has the 2.3TLs and so I'm familiar with them too. I like them. I have never had the urge nor seen a need or reason in the past nor will I feel the need in the future to waste my time, money and effort in replacing my 2.3s with the 2.3TLs. Not gonna be done!
Once again IMHO, anyone thinking they're getting the short end of the stick by getting 2.3s rather than the TL version is just kidding themselves. (My guess is you're goona replace the tweeters in either one.)
Bob,
JCL,
Sounds like the Sub-bass are indeed getting the stereo feed. Would you mind doing one more check for confirmation?
With the SDA IC in place, check the left speaker with either the balance all the way to the right channel or the left speaker's speaker wire disconnected.
Should remove the remaining trace of doubt I have...
I'll try that as soon as I can. My Sunfire doesn't have a ballance control other than the surround calibration so I will have to hook up my 2 channel pre to them so that will take a little while. I did this when I got them and if I remember correctly all speakers worked as described by Ken. I have disconnected the speaker wires from one channel but because this early model of 2.3 used a single wire IC and there will be no signal going to the other speaker from the IC so it won't produce any sound. I talked to Ken about the IC design for this model a long time ago and Polk set them up like this to avoid frying a non CG amp.
BobMcG
02-05-2006, 12:55 PM
Bob,
Just the way I am reading the first line of your self-quoted post. Taken alone, it means something different to me. But it would not be the first time I have had a different "take" on something... I'm used to it.. :)
That's OK Bruce. Sometimes I explain things with my elbows. :)
Nope. That'd be like tring to make SRSs into 1.2s.
Not only are the cabinets different but so are the crossovers and tweeters. To Add: Not to mention the mids aren't all the same either.
I'm not sure I understand your post Bob but, I believe there was only one crossover in the 2.3 design not a left and right handed version. I checked the spare parts list and only found one type for the 2.3, BE 2200-A(http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/service/parts/partslist.php3?item=crossovers). I wasn't talking about making these into 2.3tl's (BE 2200-c crossover) that wouldn't be worth the effort since they require all different drivers and a different crossover. What I was talking about was just adding 2 holes, plugging 2, and moving the drivers around to make a mirror image of the right so there is a left and right speaker. By the way I have always liked the way these 2.3's sound and wouldn't even consider taking on the effort to convert them to tl's.
BobMcG
02-05-2006, 01:15 PM
I'm not sure I understand your post Bob but, I believe there was only one crossover in the 2.3 design not a left and right handed version.
Sorry. I misinterpreted your post. I though you wanted to change 2.3s into 2.3TLs.
Tour2ma
02-05-2006, 01:35 PM
Either that or that elbow thing....
F1nut
02-05-2006, 02:01 PM
Sally, they get their signal from the amp just like the rest of them. ;)
schwarcw
02-05-2006, 03:03 PM
JCL
Your idea of mover driver and plugging holes would probably work, but you would need to take extrordinary care to maintain the airtight nature of the cabinents. You would also need to switch the interconnecting cable around to make sure that you got your + to - connection correct. Study the crossover wiring schmatic to make sure to do it properly. With the grills on you wouldn't notice the cosmetics. It would be difficult to make it look clean. Lots of sanding and painting. Possible, but a lot of work.
Carl
JCL
You would also need to switch the interconnecting cable around to make sure that you got your + to - connection correct. Study the crossover wiring schmatic to make sure to do it properly.
Carl
That's not true considering the IC has only one wire (can't remember if its the pin or the blade). The other is a dead short. Also I wouldn't be buying these anyway they are too far from home and way too expensive considering the work that would be reqired to fix them and make them look acceptable. I was just wondering if it could be done without purchasing any new equipment.
BobMcG
02-05-2006, 04:41 PM
Come on already, admit it! ...........
You want to out design Matt and team and make "Franken Polks"!!! :D
With the SDA IC in place, check the left speaker with either the balance all the way to the right channel or the left speaker's speaker wire disconnected.
Should remove the remaining trace of doubt I have...
Yes, i are an engineer... or at least i were one... :p
I did what you asked and the SDA speakers are definitely the two in the array of 4 as shown in the manual.
LOL at Bob yep that must be it. Actually this is a really long thread considering I just wanted to be sure my speakers have been set up properly for the last year or so.
Tour2ma
02-06-2006, 02:30 PM
I did what you asked and the SDA speakers are definitely the two in the array of 4 as shown in the manual.And the other two are definitely in stereo duty?
loh_kg
02-09-2006, 01:12 AM
Can anyone tell me what is the X-over point for this 2.3TL speakers?
Thanks
loh_kg
02-10-2006, 08:02 PM
So many so call them self Polk expert,Guru or Master out there not even one can answer to this question.LOL
F1nut
02-10-2006, 08:45 PM
Interesting attitude you have there, loh kg. So, in light of your attitude I'm not going to tell you. However, I will pass on this bit of advice for you to ponder over, putz's don't last long here.
Can anyone tell me what is the X-over point for this 2.3TL speakers?
Thanks
Can't tell you for the 2.3TL but I have the information for the 2.3's. You seam pretty sharp though so you should be able to find the information as easily as I did for the 2.3's. If you get really ambitious you could always buy "The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" and figure it out.
Here's a hint though .......
There is a little book that came with your speakers. ;)
And the other two are definitely in stereo duty?
They appear to be. The additional mass of those two drivers (with donuts) has them muted at all levels but functioning properly. I assume one of the 2 low pass crossovers controls these two drivers.
loh_kg
02-13-2006, 07:38 PM
Interesting attitude you have there, loh kg. So, in light of your attitude I'm not going to tell you. However, I will pass on this bit of advice for you to ponder over, putz's don't last long here.
What's wrong with my attitude?I have put up this question for so many days but no one reply.I sure that you don't know the answer if not you will answer my question before my replied.LOL
F1nut
02-13-2006, 08:04 PM
Your question was only "up" for about a day. Not everyone here checks every post in every thread by the hour or day. So, when you didn't get an answer quickly enough, you decide to post some smart ass comment. That's the attitude I'm refering to and it's because of that attitude that I decided not to answer your question. JCL has given you a clue where to look.
BTW, I do know the answer, but I'm not playing your little bait game.
Tour2ma
02-13-2006, 10:07 PM
What's wrong with my attitude?Now we can add self-awareness to the list...
JCL,
Thanks for the reply to my last question...
loh_kg
02-14-2006, 04:51 AM
I have owned Polk Audio 2.3TL speakers more than 10 years and I am very happy with it.I enjoy my music everyday with this pair of speakers without doing any modification.Unlike some smart guys here in this forum,mod X-over,changing of tweeters etc.You guys think that you can do better than Matthew Polk the original designer of this speakers.Please be honest and don't bluff yourself.LOL :p
Edit:Matthew
george daniel
02-14-2006, 07:21 AM
I thought it was Matthew :confused:
Tour2ma
02-14-2006, 08:19 AM
You guys think that you can do better than martin Polk the original designer of this speakers.LOL :pWAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....
Yeah, that Polk guy is right up there with Mathew Logan.
That's gotta go in my sig line...
F1nut
02-14-2006, 01:19 PM
Trolling, trolling, trolling...........
RuSsMaN
02-14-2006, 01:26 PM
We've been flooded with trolls and retards of late, haven't we?
F1nut
02-14-2006, 08:19 PM
Especially retards!
loh_kg
02-17-2006, 03:19 AM
Especially retards!
Let me ask you a question.Why still have so many people out there like Polk vintage speakers?My answer is because we like the vintage polk sig sound.If you mod any component parts in the speakers,it will changed the sound as will.So what's the point to owned vintage Polk speakers.To me,I like vintage Polk sig sound and I only trust my two ears and my two balls. :p
F1nut
02-17-2006, 03:30 AM
Simple answer, because there isn't much in the world of audio that can't be improved upon one way or another. Maybe one day you'll come to understand that, maybe not.
Tour2ma
02-17-2006, 03:32 AM
loh kg,
Went back and read your first few posts and saw that you are in Singapore. So please accept my apology for my earlier comments.
Many will will maintain that what they due are not so much mod's as they are upgrades. If the sound can be refined through the replacement of the old, stock capacitors and other cross-over components, that could be a positive thing.
loh_kg
02-17-2006, 04:34 AM
loh kg,
Went back and read your first few posts and saw that you are in Singapore. So please accept my apology for my earlier comments.
Many will will maintain that what they due are not so much mod's as they are upgrades. If the sound can be refined through the replacement of the old, stock capacitors and other cross-over components, that could be a positive thing.
Agree with you,if the capacitors are leaking and I will change it.As for the SL3000 tweeters,I will never change to other model,that's why I still keeping 4 pcs of original SL3000 tweeters. :)
Tour2ma
02-17-2006, 01:48 PM
Never say never... ;)
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