Krell 400xi vs Rotel RC1070 + Rotel RB1090?

[Joey_V]

What do you guys think?

The Rotel RB1090 amp + RC1070 preamp combo vs the Krell Integrated 400xi?

The Rotel RB1090 is a monster of an amp and is a dual mono design with 2 torroidals and 2 power transformers... the L and R never meet essentially. I'm not altogether very familiar with the Krell though I've heard it power the Martin Logan Vantages before and it was a solid audition.

Here are some pics:

Krell:
http://www.everestaudio.com/reviews/Krell-KAV-400xi-review-superior-audio_files/image002.jpg
http://www.sorishop.co.kr/board/special/upload/special__120_1.jpg
http://static.nikita.cx/hthifi/ashram/instal/400xi.jpg

Rotel RB1090:
http://www.audio-romanesque.com/job1.files/rb1090.jpg
http://www.audio-romanesque.com/job1.files/rb1090no1.jpg
http://avforum.no/minhjemmekino/users/wmorig/4f2acb2ee18182b3f1fb472ee68b3feb.JPG

I havent heard the 1090 yet but I have the 1070 and I enjoy its sonic presentation. I know the 1090 would be an upgrade with the same house sound of Rotel and I have a hard time justifying $2500 for the Krell especially when the Rotel looks a lot beefier and more "manly" judging by internals alone.

The Rotel is 380wpc @ 8ohms and 700wpc @ 4ohms (where my Vantage run at).... the Krell 400xi is 200wpc @ 8 and 400 wpc @ 4. Both are class AB.

What do you guys think?

[Zero]

Ditch the Rotel pre and go with something worthwhile... The 1090 is the only amp Rotel has out worth taking a look at.

Having done an A/B comparison... sound quality wise, I thought the Krell walked all over the 1072/1092 combo.

edit: Now that I think about it - no brainer. Krell, all day. You will save money, get better sound, you should have enough power.... and you can put that saved money towards one of the most important parts of the system; your source.

[crazy]

A friend of mine just bought the Krell Integrated 400xi and he was debating over Rotel seperates as well. Just based on what he said - there was no comparision - Krell won hands down. He is using them to drive his B&W 800's.

[mldennison]

wow, that is a pretty impressive engineering feat if the krell does sound better than the rotel. dont think even one of those transformers would fit into the krell box there. :eek:

[audiobliss]

^^ Exactly what I was thinking. Very surprising to me that the Krell does a better job than the Rotel combination. Perhaps if you put them on some really demanding speakers so the Krell would run out of steam first...then maybe the Rotel would be better. How do they compare current wise?

[Joey_V]

I really have a hard time believing that the Krell entry level bests the ultimate Rotel. The capacitors on the Rotel are massive and the dual mono design is superb. The Rotel has been highly reviewed, too.

Let me correct myself, I have heard the 1090 on one occassion - powering some 802N - however, I wasnt very sold on them since they were powering BW-N which I dont really like and the guy put on mp3s.

Anyway, the Krell seems to me like I would be paying alot for the name itself... rather than the parts inside.

Not to discount those who think the Krell sounds better.

[2+2]

Joey, I think the weakness of your Rotel combo is probably the preamp side. 1090 amp is the best Rotel has and has been received very well...RC1070 has been more mixed. If you can up the pre-amp to say...RC1090, then you probably have a great combo... Also, keep in mind the future if you ever consider upgrading to really hard speakers to drive, the Krell may not be enough (never heard it tho so take it for what it's worth).....

[Zero]

Joey

If it is one thing I have walked away with in this hobby, it is in learning that there are no absolutes. A lot of my experience slaps the face of “bigger equals better” theory.

I find your response pretty interesting. A lot of our buying decisions are placebo. Looking at your response, it seems as if you have already made up your mind about where the two pieces stand and what you prefer – which has me wondering why you started the thread in the first place if that is the case?

Sure, I too would love to own a big beast of an amp that requires a separate stand, that looks cool and has all the big stuff that I’ve been taught makes a piece, a good piece. There is a degree of comfort in that, not to mention that this design has been the flag-ship of the Rotel amp line for nearly a decade.

However, it is not always about the size and the parts. Its all about the circuit and how everything around that circuit is implemented. If you judge products according to their size, looks, and name, well – you are missing out on a lot of great equipment. Of course, this is a tough sell to anyone who has not yet been “schooled”.

Either way, whether you end up with the big Rotel, a little Krell (whose sound is far from entry level), or any other piece on those levels.. I am sure it will make you very happy. We all have our tastes, wants, and criteria.

I have come to appreciate that until you get into the mega-buck range, integrated amps are really the way to go. That’s my preference. I’d rather pay for a high quality integrated than purchase lesser separate components.

Good luck.

[LuSh]

I can't compare Krell's intergrated vs separates but I can say this. After 3months of research and knowing that Krell took alot of heat for the Krell 500i intergrated (over $4000) I know the 400xi was a lost leader from them. I'm quite happy with mine. I decided long ago I didn't want to deal with additional interconnects and power cords. I'm considering an Elrod or Purist, if I had to deal with a pre/amp that is easily another grand gone in additional wires etc...perhaps I'm crazy in assuming a number like that for mere interconnects and PC's but that's an entirely new discussion that has been beaten to death.

[Joey_V]

I can't compare Krell's intergrated vs separates but I can say this. After 3months of research and knowing that Krell took alot of heat for the Krell 500i intergrated (over $4000) I know the 400xi was a lost leader from them.

Lush,

What do you mean Lost Leader?

Zero (Shawn.... er, Sean... hehehe),

I'm gonna call you tomorrow night.... past 9p cuz that's when I get free minutes. Looking forward catching up with you and your ideas about this amp subject.

[Zero]

Joey,

Looking forward to it. Not to speak for Lush - but what he just made a simple typing error. He meant to say loss-leader.

A loss-leader product is one a company puts out that yeilds very little profit, at least in respect to their standard bottom line.

[Joey_V]

Joey,

Looking forward to it. Not to speak for Lush - but what he just made a simple typing error. He meant to say loss-leader.

A loss-leader product is one a company puts out that yeilds very little profit, at least in respect to their standard bottom line.

Ah... lost leader and loss leader are two very different things.... cool cool.

[F1nut]

Wasn't the the infamous Krell integrated the KAV 300i?

I agree with Sean, you can't judge the sound by the size, specs or look of the pieces. I can also say from personal experience that there are high end integrated amps that can perform at and far above separates in the same price range and then some.

As always, it would be best if you could demo both set ups that you are considering before choosing.

[unc2701]

Just to throw in my two cents, having heard a rotel combo (1090 and don't know which pre-), the krell 400xi and the Musical Fidelity A5, the rotel finished dead last in my mind. My preference was the A5, then the 400xi, and I didn't like the 1090 combo at all. This was on Wilson Watt/puppies and B&W 802's.

[LuSh]

Yes it was a typing error. Loss-leader.

F1nut: Both the 300i and 500i (rare and expensive) were both huge flops for Krell. Having said that some say the 500i was one of the most overlooked amps during its run.

[kingkip]

I have come to appreciate that until you get into the mega-buck range, integrated amps are really the way to go. That’s my preference. I’d rather pay for a high quality integrated than purchase lesser separate components.




Not to hijack the thread, but Zero, why do you think that? This is a line of thought that I hadn't come across yet and I am intrigued. I don't have a lot of experience in the higher end, and this may influence the way I was thinking of going.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

[Zero]

Kingtip,

To keep this thread preserved, lets take this to E-mail. Send me your addy in a PM and we can talk.

[F1nut]

Lush, got it and thanks.

[mantis]

Go listen and bring home the one that sounds better. Forget about cap size, forget about how cool it looks. it matter what speakers your driving it with and how they pair up.
Krell and Rotel are not in the same class. But that doesn't mean You have to like one or the other due to any reasons except sound quality and the ability to drive your speakers.

Get off the forum and go listen

Dan

[gregure]

Well, just to throw in one more zinger, I know that Gayle Saunders, owner of Martin Logan, uses Krell to power his E Statement 2 system in Kansas. If Krell is the choice of the makers of Martin Logan, I'm sure you'll be happy with the results on your own set of ML's. I'd go with with the Krell any day. It's really a steal in terms of price vs. performance.

[pjdami]

I think F1 and Mantis nailed it; you got to go demo both and in your own home if you can swing it on your speakers / room.

Start saving for that Wadia cd player too.. Sweeeeet.

[crazy]

A slightly off-topic question, but why are these soooo expensive??? They cannot be better than the Krell, can they?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDPWetN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=580TXNR1K

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDPWetN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=033AV5805B

[unc2701]

'cause people look at the back panel and say, "HOLY SHIT!"

Still you'd be better off with $2k pre like anthem or b&k plus a $2k 7 channel amp, plus a couple Adcoms for the multiroom functions. That's just too much crap in one box for my taste.

[Ferres]

A slightly off-topic question, but why are these soooo expensive??? They cannot be better than the Krell, can they?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDPWetN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=580TXNR1K

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDPWetN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=033AV5805B


It's really for people who want to try the high-end but are put off by the extra work in setting up separates. :p

[F1nut]

Crazy, that's very off topic. 2 channel and HT are very different animals.

[miner]

The Rotel RC-1070 pre for $500 MSRP is hard to beat for the money. Sure, it may not be the best in class but I venture to say it is the best bang/$$ out there for a separate pre. The RC-1090 (now discontinued in US) is jsut a tad better sounding but more bells & whisltes. The RC-1070 is cleaner looking i my opinion. The RB-1090 has been touted as being the best sub-$2500 amp on the market. It all depends on your speaker choice. Best you can do is audition at your home if dealer will let you.

[crazy]

Crazy, that's very off topic. 2 channel and HT are very different animals.

ah! Didn't realize. I guess that explains - my friends does have a stereo setup. So I assume he would need a surround processor to go 5.1, right?

[audiobliss]

Yup.