New head unit

[MacLeod]

Got me a new head unit!! WOOOHOO!! Alpine 9855!

Got a good deal at Tweeter by getting them to price match Crutchfield so I got a $450 h/u for $400!

Man let me tell ya about this time alignment. Yes I still consider it cheating but since EVERY SINGLE competitor Ive run up on is using it I must give in at least as long as my speakers are in stock locations.

But I digress, right now my stage is PERFECT (not considering depth and some midbass parts are a tad low) but my positioning is dead on. The narrators voice on the MECA SQ disc which used to be 3" from the drivers door is now right under the mirror and oddly enough, my stage is now wider than ever!

I am sooooo stoked! My system has never sounded this good!

I cannot wait for the national MECA show this weekend! I only hope that dude that beat me last time is there! Its rematch time!

Now Ive just got to figure out this damn EQ and I just hope and pray this stupid "glide touch" holds out longer than the 3 days Im thinking its going to last.

[1996blackmax]

I have been using T.A. since the mid 90's. This was back when you had to get a seperate processor/EQ unit to have it. It is a sweet thing :D. Now you see what I had been saying ;). Glad that things are working out, now go kick some rear end!

[exalted512]

Congrats on the new HU!

Good luck with the glide crap though...Theres a reason alpine got rid of that:D
-Cody

[1996blackmax]

By the way, I think the Biolite display is the best display on the market. Very clean looking, as well as elegant. That is the one thing I miss about my Alpine CDA-7998.

[1996blackmax]

Since wer are talking about new HU's. Check this one out. One of the guys on another board I hang out just installed it in his car.

http://www.audiocubes.com/category/Car+Audio_2+Din+Receivers/product/Panasonic_CQ-TX5500D_Vacuum_Tube_CD_Receiver.html


Hey Mac, did you notice your bass getting a little tighter as well? May not be as big as a difference for you as you have a truck, but for people who have a sub in the trunk, T.A. really helps out. Feels nice to get new gear huh?

[Greg Peters]

Congrats- that is an excellent head unit for SQ.

You have (2) choices for EQ with the 9855- parametric OR graphic.

With graphic EQ, you have 7 bands that are a lot like really detailed bass and treble controls.

With the parametric EQ, you only have 5 bands, BUT... you can not only boost/cut frequencies, but move the frequencies higher or lower in relation to each other as well. Alpine will allow you to move them within 4 increments of the next band. You can also choose to boost a very select frequency band (raising the "Q" number) or corresponding frequencies as well to a degree (lower "Q" number). This is great for sorting out anomolies in the interior of your truck due to materials in the vehicle bouncing frequencies around. Changing the "Q" is kinda like changing slope when adjusting electronic crossovers, and the 9855's crossovers have choices for slope in this manner as well.

This EQ takes some fiddling to get right, but once it is dialled in you can save variations of your favourite EQ setting in the presets, for bumping high and low frequencies up or down to fit different genres of music with one touch of the "button" on the strip. If you want "flat" EQ curve as an option, it is a factory EQ preset also one button touch away.

I have tried to kill the glide touch on a 9855 in my local retailer's demo board, but have not had any luck yet. It has been on display for a long time.

Please report back if the 9855 brings an improvement all around with the EQ set up.

[deepinya]

Congrats man and go get em this weekend!

[audiobliss]

I have tried to kill the glide touch on a 9855 in my local retailer's demo board, but have not had any luck yet. It has been on display for a long time.
I bet he replaces it every time you walk out! :p


Congrats, Mac. Glad you like it!

[exalted512]

Since wer are talking about new HU's. Check this one out. One of the guys on another board I hang out just installed it in his car.

http://www.audiocubes.com/category/Car+Audio_2+Din+Receivers/product/Panasonic_CQ-TX5500D_Vacuum_Tube_CD_Receiver.html

I saw that when it came out. Interesting radio. Although I have to admit, my radio will be next to useless when i get the RF 360º. All my filters on both amps and radio will be set to all pass and letting this thing do all the work...that is when i actually have time to build everything and put everything in...
-Cody

[audiobliss]

...which won't be 'til, like, 2007!

[MacLeod]

I saw that when it came out. Interesting radio. Although I have to admit, my radio will be next to useless when i get the RF 360º. All my filters on both amps and radio will be set to all pass and letting this thing do all the work...that is when i actually have time to build everything and put everything in...
-Cody


I dunno dude, dont ya think there is a point where you can OVER process things?

That thing has like what, three 30 band EQ's?

Ive just never been much of a super tweaker I guess.

[1996blackmax]

The Panasonic HU has no processing built in, only bass and treble, and only 2 preouts. The thing that makes it stand out is that it is a tube HU made for SQ. You would have to use external processing if you wanted any sort of major tweaking.

[Greg Peters]

I bet he replaces it every time you walk out! :p

I better check the dumpster behind the shop so I can get me one of those too.

[sntnsupermen131]

I dunno dude, dont ya think there is a point where you can OVER process things?

That thing has like what, three 30 band EQ's?

Ive just never been much of a super tweaker I guess.
not really, I mean youre not changing the sound, you just have more adjustments to get the sound as flat as possible because every car is different. Some cars give peaks in odd places that arent easily adjustable. Plus the thing is just so incredibly easy to use.

And I know the panansonic has very little controls, my point was that i dont use a hu for a source of amplification, if i wanted tube amps i would go with marc anthony or USAmps, certainly not a panasonic radio. But it is a cool idea, and the thing looks sweet as hell
-Cody

[Greg Peters]

So...how does it sound all set up, Mac?

I picked up a 9855 for an out-of-town friend (for the equivalent of $333 US) that is waiting in the box to be installed in a '05 Jetta TDI- he would be less than thrilled if I broke it in first for him in my Jeep.

If Mac's sounds really good, I'll try to hunt up another (before they're all gone) for my own car and attempt to leverage the sales guy to match that price for mine (I haven't had any luck finding a 9855 with broken glide-touch in the dumpster).

The reason I'm so curious is because I plan to run a pair of sr6500s up front (like Mac is doing) and wonder if this will do them more justice than my older model h/u. I'm also looking to swap out my MRD-M301 for an Alpine MRD-M605 (2005 model) so that I can run both of my amps through something like the 9855 and take advantage of the Alpine amplink feature- this lets you adjust the gains, xovers etc. on '05 V12 amps through the head unit, without pulling up seats or practicing yoga positions to do so in the traditional manner. I would also consider ditching the MRV-F345 in favour of the MRV-F545 (125rms+ x 4) if the price were right. I love clearance time, but timing is of the essence.

Someone on the forum recommended Ikesound, and they have these amps listed at unbelievable (less than ebay) prices as well. I have no experience with Ikesound, but for those prices would almost give them a try.

[MacLeod]

So far Im still loving this thing. Plenty of features for me. Im not crazy about the glide touch and I treat it like its made out of glass but it works fine.

Another cool bonus was apparantly this one has stronger preouts than my last one. Both are rated at 4 volts but this one requires much less volume to get the same output I was used to from my 9807 so Im assuming the 9807 was 4 volts MAX while my 9855 is 4 volts RMS.

One thing Im finding out is this TA thing is F**KING HARD TO GET RIGHT! Dont get me wrong, TA has improved my stage 100% and its now centered right where it needs to be but having my tweeters in seperate locations is making things kinda tricky.

My main problem is I have horrible focus issues. Both tweeters are firing into the middle of the dash and while this has helped stage height and imaging altogether its caused some issues with reflection (trust me, I tried them mounted everywhere else and these were the best tradeoff). Also, my left mid is firing about into my kneecap while the right mid is very on axis with me so thats a problem.

So while the narrators voice is centered under the mirror, the focus is spread over the whole stage kinda like a small echo. Its not overpowering but its annoying and definitely going to be costing me points. Im afraid I wont be able to do much to cure this with stock speaker locations and Ill have to wait til next year when I move up to the Modified class to remedy it.

Let me tell y'all something. Competing in SQ is f**king hard! About the time you figure out how to fix one problem, 5 more appear! Oh well, thats the beauty of MECA and why Ill be a dedicated and loyal member; they have an amateur class so while youre learning the ropes, youre competing against others that are in the same boat you are.

So in answer to your question, this is the best value in a head unit on the market right now. $400 for high voltage preouts, time alignment, parametric EQ and all kinds of other Ipod crap. If youre in the market and can still find one of these, grab it.

[audiobliss]

So in answer to your question, this is the best value in a head unit on the market right now. $400 for high voltage preouts, time alignment, parametric EQ and all kinds of other Ipod crap.
I'm not 100% sure about that. I sure enjoy my 860 for the same price (IIRC). Though admittedly, I'm not using TA. I guess if TA is a big thing (and it obviously is for your application), then the 860 isn't that great a choice.


Anyhoo, glad to hear you're liking. Hopefully you can finish tuning it a little bit for the competition this weekend. Hope ya win!

[Greg Peters]

Thank you sir- kinda what I was hoping to hear. I will try to get another 9855 if I can pull off a good price.

I do not currently use the time correction feature on my 9813, but I do use the "bass focus" feature, which alters the Alpine default time correction settings somewhat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the time correction in the 9855 allows you to adjust 6 channels for T/A- two front channels, two rear channels, two sub channels. You basically measure the distance from each individual speaker to the listener's head, plot the time correction number for that distance on the chart in the manual, then enter the appropriate delay number for each channel in the time correction menu for a typical install.

If I remember right, you are not a fan of rear fill, so...you could probably treat each of the four individual drivers in the sr6500 set as an individual channel to be aligned as such. This would be the obvious choice.

If this setting doesn't work out for the best, maybe measuring distance of mid-point between midbass and tweeter on each side of the vehicle (giving you an averaged position for the pair) and then measuring the distance between this mid point on axis to listener's position in driver's seat for T/A (treating each pair as one channel for T/A purposes) might work out better. The fact that both sr6500 component pairs are sharing a single passive crossover between them may be throwing off the phasing slightly if you try to time-align each individual driver in the pair as a stand alone source. Treating each component pair as a single driver (a "virtual" co-ax, that happens to have several inches between its woofer and tweeter) with its origin measured at the mid-point distance between woofer and tweeter may help, might be worth trying.

[audiobliss]

Those two ideas are very interesting. Makes me wanna get my components installed so I can try them out!

[MacLeod]

Yes, the time alignment does work that way but it can be set up for increments of cenimeters, inches or miliseconds. I set mine on miliseconds and basically put on the test track and then add delay until it positions and sounds right.

[neomagus00]

Yes, the time alignment does work that way but it can be set up for increments of cenimeters, inches or miliseconds. I set mine on miliseconds and basically put on the test track and then add delay until it positions and sounds right.
i think this is the only reliable way to do it... reflections and absorptions and yadda yadda can affect the TA settings a lot... tweaking each channel directly gets you the 'effective' distance, which is what you want in the end anyways...

[exalted512]

macleod, try wiring your driver side mid out of phase, see if that helps any
-Cody

[1996blackmax]

Hey Mac, how many channels are you running to your SR's? Reason I ask is that if you are bi-amping them you can actually align each tweeter and midrange independently. This will offer an improvement over doing the T.A. thing for both tweeter and mid as one.


I find that measuring the speakers offers a good starting point for the T.A. feature.

[MacLeod]

I tried all kinds of phase combinations before the TA and never noticed anything. I do plan on experimenting with it now that Ive got TA and see how it works.

Im bi-amping my beloved SR's so I am using different settings. The mid is delayed at 2.8 ms and the tweet is delayed at 1.0 ms. So far this works the best.

[1996blackmax]

Sounds like you're on the right track.

[audiobliss]

Greg Peters - What kind of Jeep do you have? I have a '95 Cherokee, two door. You probably have a Grand Cherokee or a Wrangler, with my luck, so I couldn't get any ideas from you...lol.

[Greg Peters]

I have a 98 Cherokee Sport 2DR. Basically the same thing, but they rounded off some of the edges for 97-01, and gave it a different interior.

[audiobliss]

Nice! So at least they are somewhat similar! Here's mine:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/746000-746999/746128_1_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/746000-746999/746128_3_full.jpg

Where do you have your amps and sub mounted? I'm planning on putting my amps under the front seats. If I've measured correctly, Memphis amps should be small enough to fit. For a sub, I'm contemplating making an enclosure behind the panel under the right (looking from the back) rear window.

[MacLeod]

Update for those who care: Ive re-re-readjusted the TA again and now Im back at 1.9 for the mids and .5 for the tweeter and Im sure thatll change soon.

Another interesting tidbit is that I think I prefer the 7 band graphic EQ over the 5 band parametric EQ. Thats odd cause I figured Id dig the latter.

God Im just so blown away by how much of an improvement to my SQ has been made by getting a high end source unit. I never wouldve imagined it could make this much difference!

[audiobliss]

God Im just so blown away by how much of an improvement to my SQ has been made by getting a high end source unit. I never wouldve imagined it could make this much difference!
Good! I'm happy for you. :)

But just imagine how much of an improvement you'd be experiencing if you had gone with Eclipse, eh? :D

[neomagus00]

i agree, i much prefer the graphic over the parametric... SOOO much easier to rapidly tweak and listen, plus no chance of strange interactions between bands...

[1996blackmax]

My HU only lets the bands get so close to prevent this :).

I prefer the added flixibility a parametric EQ offers. This is especially true when you can see any nasty peaks in your system and adjust accordingly.

[1996blackmax]

But just imagine how much of an improvement you'd be experiencing if you had gone with Eclipse, eh? :D


+1 on this one ;).

[cam5860]

The only thing about the alpine units are you cannot turn the crossovers off.

Therefore you are forced to use them instead of getting to use the crossovers on the amp.

Thats one thing I like about pioneer decks you have the choice of turning shit on and off.

[1996blackmax]

The Alpine units I've had all had the ability to defeat the x-overs.

[cam5860]

I mean I can set my slope's to full range. But far as crossover points I can't turn them off on my unit.

[cam5860]

I was over at circuit city tonight looking around and they are getting the eclipse stuff in now.

They had the 1000, 2000 and 3000 headunits in. But are still waiting on the 4000's to come in.

The salesmen said they are not going to carry the 5000 just up to the 4000. They also have the fullrange eclipse speakers in and they sound damn good shocked the hell out of me.

[MacLeod]

Huh? Maybe I need to check mine but Im not using my h/u's crossover. Im using the ones on my amp for the sub and the SR's passive x-over for the comps.

[1996blackmax]

Setting the slopes to fullrange is the same thing as defeating the x-over.

[cam5860]

I wonder if there is much difference in the crossovers in a headunit compared to a amp. I mean I would think on a high end deck the crossovers would be pretty precision.

[cam5860]

I was over at BestBuy also tonight and I was playing with the alpine 9855. It is alot more advanced than the 04 models.

But that glide touch shit is difficult to use. I don't think I could get used to it with all the settings you have to adjust on that unit.

[1996blackmax]

I like buttons.

[1996blackmax]

That is one very nice display though...... oh I guess I kind of already said that :D.

[MacLeod]

Its not really as hard as it seems. The only settings you really use it for are the advanced settings and not really stuff youll use while in the middle of driving. The radio stations presets use the glide touch but all you have to do is touch the bar under the number and its pretty easy.

For example, you hit the menu button then slide the glide touch to pick what you want (crossover, TA, etc) then press the function button to enter that mode then use the volume, track and other buttons to make the adjustments. You actually dont use the glide touch much at all.

The display looks great. Its not flashy or fancy at all and looks all business. It has some animation on the display but you can defeat that. Mine simply shows track/time/clock and date.

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2004/500/h500CDA9855-f.jpeg

[cam5860]

It is a nice deck I would not mine owning one. But Im thinking about buying that new pioneer the 6800. It has a 7 band graphic eq also and it's only 260 bucks.

[MacLeod]

This is my second Alpine and Im again completely satisfied. The only unknown is how well the glide touch will hold up.

When I was first getting into car audio back in the late 80's, all the "cool" guys had Alpine so those were always the head units to have for me. But after all these years, I never had one till my 9807. So far Im sold on em.

[Greg Peters]

I've had 5 or 6 higher end Alpine H/Us over the years and have never been disappointed. I had a couple of Pioneers that were good also, but they ended up breaking eventually.

It's not to say you'll never outgrow an Alpine head unit, but the quality has always been there in my experience- both for sound and build. When Alpine's specifications became CEA compliant, a lot of people thought they'd gone to crap when they saw lower numbers for watts rms. I'd really rather know the CEA standard specs for real-world expectations purposes.The 2006 models, however, are a different story...

If you consider that Alpine makes a range of H/Us from $169 to $1699, its best to compare apples to apples. Almost every manufacturer has pulled off a lemon or two. The 9855 will probably not be looked on as a lemon for reliability- most people who bought them and hate them didn't want something as complicated and tuneable as the 9855, picked it up only because it was "top of the line" (below F1 Status series) and didn't know what to do with it once it was installed. Mac won't have that problem.

[1996blackmax]

I had them since the early 90's. I still have a 7292S pullout in my garage, as well as a TDA-7558. The TDA-7559 which is the exact thing as the TDA-7558 (one has gold lettering and the other white), was the last high end tape player made by Alpine. So a little history there :). Also the 7558 actually put out its 4V rating.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/482000-482999/482517_161_full.jpg

I have said it before, if it were not for my 7949 not liking CD-R's I would still have that in my car. I had a couple of these, as well as the matching processor for it, the PXA-H600.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/482000-482999/482517_48.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/482000-482999/482517_47.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/482000-482999/482517_49.jpg

This was also a very nice HU. Had two of them.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/482000-482999/482517_65_full.jpg

We will see in time if I go back to them.

[1996blackmax]

The 9855 will probably not be looked on as a lemon for reliability- most people who bought them and hate them didn't want something as complicated and tuneable as the 9855, picked it up only because it was "top of the line" (below F1 Status series) and didn't know what to do with it once it was installed. Mac won't have that problem.


The first batches will. Look around other forums, many people had issues with them. They did fix the problem with the models that came out later.

[audiobliss]

1996blackmax - That last Alpine HU you posted a pic of, IIRC, isn't it a 7998? Do I understand it from your post that you have two of them laying around?! :eek:

[1996blackmax]

I had two of them. I had my 7949/PXA-H600 combo and bought the first 7998 to replace them. While the 7998 is a very nice HU, and nothing Alpine has made since the late 90's tops it(besides the F#1 gear), it was still not at the same level as the combo it replaced. I bought another combo and again got tired of the CD-R thing. I then got another 7998 to give it another shot. I really wanted to stick with Alpine. I finally ended up going with Eclipse. First the CD8454, then my CD8455 that I have now. I think my CD8455 is the only HU I've had that gets close to the sound that the 7949/PXA-H600 produced. I have not been as happy with a HU since I had that wonderful combo. I actually got my first PXA-H600 processor from a guy in Australia as they were pretty rare. I tried to get it here in the U.S, but nobody had them and Alpine had stopped selling them.

[1996blackmax]

Forgot to mention the 7998's have been sold. I still have the ability to get one still in the box brand new. A family member has one that has not been installed yet. I don't see it being installed anytime soon either :).

[Greg Peters]

The first batches will. Look around other forums, many people had issues with them. They did fix the problem with the models that came out later.

So was the problem with "the strip" breaking, or what? I have done some surfing on the subject, and the biggest gripe I came across was the confusion resulting from using the dreaded strip.

[1996blackmax]

The glide touch would not function correctly on some, and I think there were other issues (can't remember exactly). If I remember correctly people were warning each other that when you buy one to make sure it had some dot (forgot the color) on the box, as these were the newer ones that had the bugs fixed.

[audiobliss]

What would one of those 7998's sell for? Just a ballpark? Maybe $150? :D Or $500? :(

IIRC, the 7998 didn't have internal amplification, and instead of the faceplate coming off, it just went inside the unit, right?

[1996blackmax]

Correct on the 7998. My sister bought one brand new from Crutchfield for $359 dollars :D. It was $399, but she bough the rest of her system and received a nice discount on all her gear.

It had no amplification, face hid inside the unit, and had upgraded guts inside (input/output capacitors as well as other stuff). Nice SQ hu.

I think these HU's still fetch from around $350 to $450 or so. Depending on condition, and if they are new.

[1996blackmax]

Actually if it were not for it not fitting in my wife's car, she would have that in there instead of the CDA-7894.

[audiobliss]

Having heard the P860MP and the 7998, how would you compare them? Also, it *seems* as though I remember reading about there being reliability issues with the 7998...is that true, or am I just making something up?

[Greg Peters]

The glide touch would not function correctly on some, and I think there were other issues (can't remember exactly). If I remember correctly people were warning each other that when you buy one to make sure it had some dot (forgot the color) on the box, as these were the newer ones that had the bugs fixed.

Interesting bit on the early 9855s. I have one I'll have to research. By the same token, the swing face design had some problems too. Never had a problem with the 9813. I've found that almost everything lasts longer if you handle with care.

So as not to send out the wrong idea, I know Eclipse makes very good head units, and would never knock them. The main reason I never bought one myself was the lack of a detachable face. They were supposed to require insertion of a certain CD if the power was cut (as an anti-theft feature) in order to function. I know people who have had them stolen by theives who didn't know any better. The Eclipse H/Us look high-end, and do attract curious theives.

I prefer the anonymous "black rectangle in the dash" look. I had an earlier Alpine detachable face cassette/cd changer controller around '92/'93, and when you popped the face off, there was a raised Alpine logo underneath. I prefer the later design- no telltale logo (and even no CD slot on swing-face models).

[1996blackmax]

Having heard the P860MP and the 7998, how would you compare them? Also, it *seems* as though I remember reading about there being reliability issues with the 7998...is that true, or am I just making something up?


You are correct, some the 7998 did have some issues with the face not retracting when the car was turned off. Alpine had a tech bulletin on how to fix this. It was something dealing with the remote turn on wire. I never had those issues with both of the units I had. On my first one, a couple of times the face came out when turned on and did not go up all the way. It then went back in and then out all the way. This happened during the first couple of months, and never again for the 2 years I had it.

If I were to choose between the Alpine and the Pioneer, I would go with the Alpine. The 7998 is a great HU, just not at the same level as my previous Alpine gear that I had.

[1996blackmax]

Interesting bit on the early 9855s. I have one I'll have to research. By the same token, the swing face design had some problems too. Never had a problem with the 9813. I've found that almost everything lasts longer if you handle with care.



I actually take very good care of my audio gear :).

[Greg Peters]

MacLeod- have you had a chance to play with the "MediaExpander" feature yet?

If you are playing store bought CDs, it can cause some distortion at settings 2 & 3, higher volume levels. It almost seems to help the highs disperse more, imaging-wise, at low volumes. Any thoughts?

[1996blackmax]

So as not to send out the wrong idea, I know Eclipse makes very good head units, and would never knock them. The main reason I never bought one myself was the lack of a detachable face. They were supposed to require insertion of a certain CD if the power was cut (as an anti-theft feature) in order to function. I know people who have had them stolen by theives who didn't know any better. The Eclipse H/Us look high-end, and do attract curious theives.

I prefer the anonymous "black rectangle in the dash" look. I had an earlier Alpine detachable face cassette/cd changer controller around '92/'93, and when you popped the face off, there was a raised Alpine logo underneath. I prefer the later design- no telltale logo (and even no CD slot on swing-face models).


In the end the sound I was after from a HU was not offered from the company that I wanted to go with, which also had detachable faces on their HU's. I tried another company too. I eventually just went with what made my ears happier. I do not regret my decision one bit. Even if someone stole the HU, I would have the satisfaction of knowing they would not be able to use it :D. Many detachable face units get stolen, even without the face being on there. I read this many times on other forums, so having that is no insurance as well. The thief can then just go to a store and steal a face, or go to ebay as well. There is a reason why the shops started putting safety guards on their diplay models :).

[1996blackmax]

If you are playing store bought CDs, it can cause some distortion at settings 2 & 3, higher volume levels. It almost seems to help the highs disperse more, imaging-wise, at low volumes. Any thoughts?


I know it's addresed to Mac, but I am very aware of what the MX thing does.


I totally think that it is a wasted function. Alpine should have kept using BBE on their higher end units instead. With BBE the music sounds more expansive, and adds to the sound. I see that they have gone back to them now. MX would at times sound ok with a certain song and bad with many others. I just left it off. Had my 7998 had the BBE processor built in, I may have stuck with it. I would have paid more for a model with BBE.

[Greg Peters]

I actually take very good care of my audio gear :).

I have no doubt whatsoever.


I have also had good gear go bad with no provocation, and have had buddies trash something in 3-4 months, and come around complaining how their $450 head unit was garbage. It didn't seem reasonable when I saw the abuse they subjected their gear through. For some people its amazing their stuff even lasts as long as four months.

Most of my older gear was liquidated to make room for new- to good home only.

[1996blackmax]

I actually wished I had kept some of my older gear :(. I know what you mean about some people and their gear. I had a friend that had nice stuff, but he never took care of it. Did not take long for his HU's buttons to be missing and stuff like that.

[Greg Peters]

Many detachable face units get stolen, even without the face being on there. I read this many times on other forums, so having that is no insurance as well. The thief can then just go to a store and steal a face, or go to ebay as well. There is a reason why the shops started putting safety guards on their diplay models :).

I hear that. I've just had better luck with the detachables. I had an Alpine just before the "pull out" style came out, circa '86, and the bad guys kept going after it in my underground parking. I ended up buying something called an "AudioSafe" that used to mount over the face of the head unit, around the DIN opening. It was cast metal, locked with a 7 tumbler "Kryptonite" type key. The locking part covered the H/U, and then locked into a cast metal collar around the H/U behind the dash.

Even with the "AudioSafe" in place, I managed to catch some bastard in the act of chipping my dash apart trying to get that Alpine.

Making your audio less attractive at a glance to a passing thief goes a long way. Insurance deductibles cost the same to repair an attempted theft from auto.

[audiobliss]

Even with the "AudioSafe" in place, I managed to catch some bastard in the act of chipping my dash apart trying to get that Alpine.
I'd like to hear about what happened to that guy! :eek: :D

[Greg Peters]

I'd like to hear about what happened to that guy! :eek: :D

There was a fight, then the bastard (and his buddy the lookout) ran and were later arrested. In Canada, we have something called the "Young Offenders Act", which, boiled down, means that if the offender is under 18, nothing much happens to them under the law unless they have a rap sheet a mile long. Then they might go to a juvenile detention center (for something more serious than theft).

Then...their whole record is sealed upon turning 18 so that if they have additional trouble with the law, police who run them through the database don't get to see their long and prosperous criminal past (and can't hold it against them).

At least they left my stuff when they ran.

[1996blackmax]

The good thing about the pullouts is that you could use them for self protection :D. My Alpine 7292S is a pullout. My kids laughed when I showed it to them :).

[cam5860]

How about that new pioneer coming in march the DEH-P7800MP. It looks really good and its going to have a 16 band EQ and time alignment with 5 volt preouts. Crutchfield has it listed at 420.00.

[1996blackmax]

I don't like that whole single knob and not many buttons thing. Give me buttons. I do not want to fool around to find different functions. I had a Pioneer last year, it was nice a unit. However, there were some things that got really annoying. There were no dedicated Pause or Attenuator buttons. I had to dig through the menu to get to them.

[neomagus00]

yeah, the 8600 has it three menus deep... kinda annoying... maybe the 7800 fixes this?

[exalted512]

it doesnt. Im eyeing pioneers new 980...
-Cody

[MacLeod]

I actually like the Media Xpander. For my daily driving I use it on setting 1. Any more and its too bass heavy. However for judging, I turn it off.

[1996blackmax]

I could not stand it. BBE does what Media Expander tries to do, the only thing is that BBE does it well.

[exalted512]

I could not stand it. BBE does what Media Expander tries to do, the only thing is that BBE does it well.
thats funny, i dont care who ya are
-Cody

[1996blackmax]

thats funny, i dont care who ya are
-Cody
:rolleyes:
Right back at you....

[exalted512]

i wasnt being sarcastic...dont know if you think i was or not...i actually laughed out loud when i read that. Havent played with media expander in an enviroment where i could give an accurate representation of how it compares with other enhancement programs.
-Cody

[1996blackmax]

No problem ;).


I had the Media Expander on 3 of my HU's. Still have one of those HU's in my wife's car. It just did not sound anywhere as good as the BBE processing that Alpine had used for many years.

[neomagus00]

tangent - i think you both would be interested to know that current research has shown that a reader of email can only understand the tone of the writer about 50% of the time, and that's if the writer takes care to get their tone across...

and i like BBE, because i like the science and reasoning behind it... very interesting stuff, if you have a few free hours to grasp it all...

[1996blackmax]

Well neo, your tone seems a little angry right now...................... j/k :D.



I had used BBE in my Alpine gear since the mid 90's or so. I have alway been happy with the sound that it helped produce. It is much more than just a loudness button, and something Alpine's Media Expander can't touch.

[cam5860]

Alpine has dropped media expander in the 06 lineup and now has gone back with BBE processing.

[1996blackmax]

I know... too bad they also dropped their Bass Engine Pro :(. Would have been nice if they had combined both things.

[cam5860]

It would take a fool to spend 350 bucks on the 9857 with 2 volt preouts, regular bass engine, no built in crossovers, no time alignment and so forth.

[cam5860]

The ipod is fucking up everything these days. Which I can see why alpine has dropped all the sound quality features through.

I mean whats the point people don't listen to a quality source of music anymore.

But the least they could do is build ipod decks for ipod lovers and sound quality decks for folks who really care about the way there music sounds.

[neomagus00]

But the least they could do is build ipod decks for ipod lovers and sound quality decks for folks who really care about the way there music sounds.
There's no money in it, not for a large manufacturer like that... you've noticed that the VAST majority of high-end companies are small boutiques... TruTech comes to mind as a prime example...

Thankfully, people can actually be converted... if you simply demonstrate to them that their iPod actually does sound like crap, as do their $12 Circuit City HTiBs and stock car systems, they open the door to the world of real audio all by themselves... and if they choose not to open the door, even knowing what's on the other side, then, "it might sound harsh, but god does not want [them] to live" (anchorman)...

[1996blackmax]

We listen to music at my place of work and sometimes people listen to their iPods with their little speaker stands (the ones that the iPod locks into). I hear people say those sound pretty good.......... The truth is that hey don't produce any lows or highs..... pretty sad.

I usually just bring in my regular CD's or MP3 encoded CD's that we can listen to on the radio with actual speakers. I burn my MP3's at the higher rates. My buddy who I work with almost everyday brings his player but at least hooks it up through the radio's line in jack.


I do enjoy showing my system to some of the guys from work. Some of these guys are very anti anything that is not OEM in their cars. A couple of them have said that they don't know why people spend money to get nice audio stuff in your car, but then go out and buy $3000 or $4000 bicycles. They usually are very impressed with the sound though. They are blown away that the system sounds, not just better, but a lot better than their "Premium OEM Sytems". I just say to them, told ya :).

[MacLeod]

Ah thats bull. Alpine could very easily keep their current 20 worthless Ipod head units (in the new lineup) and come out with 1 or 2 SQ oriented heads. It wouldnt cost them anything. They dont have to make a million of them as there wouldnt be that much demand for them but I can assure you some they would have enough demand to make some profit on them. If they had a SQ head unit with a great EQ, time alignment, good DAC and high voltage outputs for $500 in this years current line up, I wouldve bought it instead of the 9855!

[1996blackmax]

Bull it is bro.

As far as the Alpine HU's. I still look at them every year to see if they are coming back around. If they do, I would give them another shot.

[MacLeod]

They do have a cool processor, the H701 for $550 that has plenty of nifty features but the cheapest head unit you can buy that is compatible with it is $550. Thats probably $900 real world retail but still a hell of a lot more than Id be willing to spend for a head unit.

[1996blackmax]

I had thought about going that route, as that is one sweet unit. In the end I just decided that I did not need that much tweaking ability, and what is found inside a higher end HU nowdays works for my application. Since you are competing it may be something worth while for you. You've done pretty darn good so far though :D. I've had a couple Alpine processors, my last one being my favorite. That thing was built for SQ, very nice, did I mention it was nice :).

[audiobliss]

Wow...I just went to Alpine's website and looked at their F#1 series. :eek:

Their F#1 head unit certainly looks like high quality, but it doesn't have a larg screen with the CD slot behind the screen. :confused: They also don't list preout voltage and such. AND it costs $2400! :eek: :eek:

http://alpine-usa.com/images/products/images/dvi-9990.jpg

[MacLeod]

Thats because you have to use it with the C990 processor which is another $1000! Now granted this thing does everything and you can tune it with your laptop. The features are virtually limitless......but for $3500 they freaking should be!

[1996blackmax]

I think the C990 is only a very high end digital to analog converter.

If you want to get to the control side of things you have to go with the PXI-H990. A good amount more cash going that route.


Beautiful pieces of equipment there.

[MacLeod]

But for $3500? C'mon!

Id much rather have a $600 Ecliipse and $300 Audiocontrol EQ/processor.

[1996blackmax]

I am with you Mac.


I love my Eclipse HU, even without the external processing. It has all that my application needs built in.

[neomagus00]

But for $3500? C'mon!

Id much rather have a $600 Ecliipse and $300 Audiocontrol EQ/processor.
if you've got the money to burn, that last little 1/10th of 1 percent that you might get out of that equipment might just be worth it to ya... it's all about what you consider expensive...

[1996blackmax]

That would really help me sleep at night :D.

[audiobliss]

That would really help me sleep at night :D.
I think the purchase has now been adequately justified! Go get 'em!

:D

[MacLeod]

If I shoot one person in the head with a .357 Magnum and another in the head with a .44 Magnum, will the one shot with the larger and better .44 be any more dead than the one shot with the .357? There is a point that youll no longer notice a difference.

[audiobliss]

And I think neo quite adequately mentioned that.

Hey, we can dream, right? :p :D

[1996blackmax]

Hey Mac the one with the .22 would be more dead.

[cam5860]

My point is simply this Alpine has gone to shit.

[1996blackmax]

Hopefully they will come back around for people who want nice gear at resonable prices.

[neomagus00]

If I shoot one person in the head with a .357 Magnum and another in the head with a .44 Magnum, will the one shot with the larger and better .44 be any more dead than the one shot with the .357? There is a point that youll no longer notice a difference.
unfortunately for that example, audio isn't a discrete thing, it's a continuum, from terrible to orgasmic, and everything in between...
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/dhuston/photos/random/SQ graph.GIF
observe the graph, which represents my theory of audio... to go from A to B, you get a certain amount of SQ increase (as far as such things can be quantified) for a certain amount of money... if, however, you're starting at point C, you need to go to point D to get the same amount of SQ increase, which is a much much larger amount of money... if your example were completely correct (and i do understand you to a point), the graph would look more like this:
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/dhuston/photos/random/SQ graph 2.GIF
which means that once you hit a certain point (say a .22) you can't get any better; this clearly doesn't apply in audio...

[1996blackmax]

This is the way I see things with audio Neo.

[audiobliss]

Ditto. I'll just never have that much money. :p

[MacLeod]

Yes but unfortunately science must prevail. Yes, a .0005% THD signal is a much cleaner signal than one with .005% THD. Doesnt matter, cause you cant hear anything below 1% anyway.

The point is that no matter how much you spend on a fancy new widget, there is a point where you can no longer tell a difference and it has been my experience that point is a lot cheaper to reach than most people think.

[audiobliss]

But perhaps if you had enough money to buy $3500 worth of just processing equipment for your car, then you also wouldn't have to work and could thus spend 8 hours a day in your truck being mesmerized at first, and then picking it apart, tweaking/tuning, then upgrading gear. You would then be a much more demanding listener with a much more discerning ear, expecting more from your system.

Hmm. I don't have a clue what I just said. LOL

[1996blackmax]

Weird thing is that I think I understood it :D

[neomagus00]

But perhaps if you had enough money to buy $3500 worth of just processing equipment for your car, then you also wouldn't have to work and could thus spend 8 hours a day in your truck being mesmerized at first, and then picking it apart, tweaking/tuning, then upgrading gear. You would then be a much more demanding listening with a much more discerning ear, expecting more from your system.

Hmm. I don't have a clue what I just said. LOL
<html>précisement</html>...

[audiobliss]

Glad to see I did make some sense! :D

[1996blackmax]

precisamente....

[MacLeod]

******************


http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif


précisement...


You do and youll clean it up.

[neomagus00]

HAHAHA!!! oooh, i haven't laughed that loud at an internet comment in... probably ever...

heh heh... :D

[MacLeod]

Ya know. There is something to be said for reading the manual.

When I messed with my crossover briefly on my HU I thought it only had a 2 way and not very flexible. Well I just happened to be skimming thru the manual today and discovered all I had to do was flip a switch on the bottom of the HU and, bingo, I not have a 3 way, fully variable, active crossover network. With slopes from 6-24 db!

Needless to say, Im off now to go play with it and see what I can make it do!

[MacLeod]

Well Im active now, or at least hybrid-active. I left my tweeter crossover in place because (A) 3100 Hz is as low as Id want to take the tweeters and (B) Id rather cut off a finger than damage my beloved SR tweets so I like having that x-over in place just in case.

I ended up not really changing them that much. I settled on 4 KHz for the tweet with an 18 db/oct slope and for the mids I took them down to 40 Hz with a 12 db/oct and low passed them at 4 KHz going 18 db/oct.

This HU is great! It just keeps on giving!

[exalted512]

manuals are for pansies!
-Cody

[1996blackmax]

All I can say is wow.........

[audiobliss]

Haha, 'bout time you figured that out, Mac! First a box with four sides, now this? *sigh* :p

I'm assuming that since you changed the settings for your mid that you're no longer using the SR's crossover for you mids, right? 'Cause if you are, like for your tweeters, then what you do in your HU's crossover doesn't affect anything, unless it's more restrictive than the SR's crossover, right?

[MacLeod]

I'm assuming that since you changed the settings for your mid that you're no longer using the SR's crossover for you mids, right? 'Cause if you are, like for your tweeters, then what you do in your HU's crossover doesn't affect anything, unless it's more restrictive than the SR's crossover, right?

Right. The mids are not running thru the passive x-over. Theyre being governed by the head unit and are now crossed over at 4 KHz.

The tweeters are running thru the passive's but only as a layer of protection. The SR's x-over point is 3100 but I am crossing them over at 4000 like the mids.

[audiobliss]

hahaha...4,000 is higher than 3100, and so would still affect the signal going to the tweeters. For some reason I was thinking that 3100 was higher, and so your setting on the HU didn't matter.

:rolleyes:

[hrdhtdvr]

Hey Mac,

Happy to hear about your new gear. I also have the 9855 and love it! After spending 2k on my gear, my wife now likes the sound of the system. Although she still doesn't like the $$ I spent. She actually told me "Hey, Sat radio sucks." I asked her why and she said "It doesn't sound good on our system." I had to explain to her about the band width or lack of, that comes with Sat. radio and mp3/wma formats. Don't get me wrong though. I love my sat radio because I get to hear all the music that regular radio won't play. (Slayer, classic, middle of the CD Priest, and other music) Not to mention no freaking commercials!

[1996blackmax]

I may be picking up Satellite radio a little later. Have not decided on which one to go with yet.....

[hrdhtdvr]

I may be picking up Satellite radio a little later. Have not decided on which one to go with yet.....


Don't know for sure, but I think XM has pulled it's metal station.
I do know that XM is the larger of the 2 though.

[MacLeod]

Don't get me wrong though. I love my sat radio because I get to hear all the music that regular radio won't play. (Slayer, classic, middle of the CD Priest, and other music) Not to mention no freaking commercials!

HELL AWAITS!!!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/musik/music-smiley-005.gif

[hrdhtdvr]

RAINING BLOOOOODDDD!!!!!!!!!:D

btw, how did you get that smilie up?

[1996blackmax]

Don't know for sure, but I think XM has pulled it's metal station.
I do know that XM is the larger of the 2 though.


ok.... XM it is, as I do not listen to metal :D .

J/K

But it's still true about the metal part, but that would not effect my decision ;) .

I was thinking about Sirius becuase of the NFL coverage. Alot of times my family is out and about, and catching some of the games would be nice. I do have a TV tuner in my car, but those are not the best thing, and then I only get the local stations.

[hrdhtdvr]

The NFL thing is a definite plus. I live in La. but was born and raised in Chicago so it is great to be able to have Da Bears games.

[exalted512]

I have XM in my truck and had sirius is my g/f's car. She wants XM, I too prefer XM. Plus, the SQ of sirius sucks worse than XM by A LOT.
-Cody

[MacLeod]

RAINING BLOOOOODDDD!!!!!!!!!:D

btw, how did you get that smilie up?

http://www.clicksmilies.com/

[hrdhtdvr]

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/musik/music-smiley-005.gif

TY!!

[jzchen2276]

1996blackmax,

Are you thinking of selling your TDA-7558? I currently have a TDA-7552 and was interested in adding the Bluetooth adaptor for my wife but it seems a TDA-7554 or TDA-7558 is necessary. I live in the Los Angeles area so not too far away. Thanks!!!

[1996blackmax]

Sorry, not at the moment.... this is one of the very last high end tape players made for the car so I want to keep it.

[lpreston]

If you are looking for an alternative for processing, look at the PPI DCX-730. The Pani 5500 tube was rated top 3 in SQ for head units....my thought is the better the output into the processor, the better the SQ. Can't polish a turd, right? Here are some specs I pulled off the net...since the 730 is recently out of production, you may have to look a bit;

Analog 6 Channel RCA Input Jacks 6 Channel RCA Output Jacks @ 8.0V RMS Max Output THD+N <.05%,

30KHz bandwidth Input Topology PPI balanced differential Signal to Noise Ratio >102dB Frequency Response 10Hz-100KHz +/- 0.25 dB
Input Impedance 10K Ohms Input Sensitivity 250 mV - 12V RMS (12V RMS with -12 db attenuation) Digital Signal Processing (DSP) DSP

Crossover incorporating 6db/12db/18db/24db per octave slopes Butterworth/Linkwitz-Riley Filters Low Pass - 20Hz-20Khz High Pass - 20Hz-20Khz Band Pass - 20Hz-20Khz

Q-BassVariable 0 - 18 dB boost @ 20-150 Hz Variable Q 0.1-9.0 Delay Variable 0-70 Msec each channel EQ 7 Band parametric EQ/LO/HIGH shelving, each channel +/- 18 dB, variable Q 0.1-9.0

Presets 5 User Presets Sample Rate 48 KHz Bit Depth 24 Bit effective resolution Input/Output Delay <3 msec with all filters flat Control Interface

Built-In Display : 2 line X 16 character LCD display with blue backlight Keyboard : 10 front panel buttons USB Input Power Supply Voltage 9-16

Volt Remote Power Output 2-second delay - max current 100 mA Fuse 2.5A

Heres my Pani with the 730 controller just sitting in its intended mount location.

http://www.electricalconnection.com/photos-personal/truck-pana.JPG

[exalted512]

did you install it yourself?
-Cody

[lpreston]

did you install it yourself?
-Cody

Down to the last nut. :D

[exalted512]

those new ones are kind of a pain to get the dash off huh?
-Cody

[lpreston]

those new ones are kind of a pain to get the dash off huh?
-Cody

Uh...yeah. Damn designers. What ever happened to the good old days when you just yanked the dash face off?

[MacLeod]

My old 2002 Ram was stupid simple to get to the HU. 1 screw held it on, then you just popped it off. Other than no underseat room, that was the easiest vehicle Ive ever installed on.

{sniff} Great, now Ive gone and depressed myself again.

[lpreston]

My old 2002 Ram was stupid simple to get to the HU. 1 screw held it on, then you just popped it off. Other than no underseat room, that was the easiest vehicle Ive ever installed on.

{sniff} Great, now Ive gone and depressed myself again.

Your depression will disappear after filling up the new ride a few times....I know I get depressed everytime I pull up to the diesel pump. :eek:

[1996blackmax]

If you are interested in the PPI processor that was mentioned shoot me a PM.... I know someone on another forum that is selling one.