I was pulled over today!

[1996blackmax]

This was not for my system. I was pulling out of a parking lot and there was a truck parked on street which was blocking my view. I do usual thing and pull out slowly. I then see this car coming kind of fast, since I was already in the street I punched it. Righ after that I get the police car behind me. He follows me for a bit and pulls me over. He comes up and tells me the reason he is pulling me over is for cutting that guy off when I came out of the parking lot. He also tells me my windows up front are not supposed to be tinted, and that I was driving too fast. I knew when he brought up the tint he was going to really give me a hard time. They are only %50. I also thought the speed limit was 30 on the street I was on (a main street with four lanes), but it was 25. He asked for my license, registration, and proof of insurance and walks back to is car. His partner then tells me to please turn my car off. I then see his partner in my rierview mirror putting on his latex gloves. At this point I know something is very wrong!

His partner then walks over to my side of the car and asks me to plase step outside. I ask him what is going on and he tells me that I am driving with a suspended license, and have a failure to appear in court. He then pats me down and walks me to the side of their car. He tells me you are not under arrest, but we need you to sit in the car while we figure this out. It turns out that somebody used my name and I have a failure to appear in court. The person who used my name got a ticket for speeding, driving without a licence, driving with a suspended licence, and a couple other things, as well as the failure to appear later for all of these issues. He then aked me if I have ever lived in Orange County. I have not. Do you own a Volvo, I said no. He showed me his screen which had all of that stuff on it. He asked me several other questions, and after a while he told me he believed me and then told his partner that he was going to let me go.


The guy advised that I go to the DMV and get try to clear this up on Monday. He told me they were taking a chance letting me go, but he did not believe that person who had those charges was me. The guy who got the ticket got it in June of 2005 or so. My license was renewed in July of 2004. My record shows nothing from July of 2004 to June of 2005 for my license to have been suspended, no tickets at all. I have actually no tickets in the system besides those bogus ones from someone else. Come Monday I am going to have a fun time down at the DMV :mad: .


I understand that these guys were doing their job. They also did not give me a ticket for the other things. I guess having to search my car and pat me down was bad enough. Pretty small in the back of the police car too. I am just really upset that something like this can happen. One of the officers said that sometimes people give a false name and then a false birthdate, and the computer can then tack it on to yours if it's pretty close. I know my name is pretty common, but still, you would think that something like this could not happen.

[janmike]

Sounds like someone who knows you.

[audiobliss]

Wow, that's a big bummer. It is schocking that someone can give a wrong name and then that person gets those tickets on his record. That definitely isn't right. But, you have to give it to the cops who pulled you over, it sounds like they were stand-up guys the whole time. Decided to let you go and didn't even give you a ticket for what they pulled you over the start with. I'd be counting my blessings, but I'm not sure how you're gonna clear your record. :confused:

Good luck!

[1996blackmax]

Thanks.

Yeah, they were pretty cool throughout the whole thing. I guess it also helps to keep your cool. I will find out how hard it will be to clear that mess up from my record on Monday. They could have had my car towed, along with all the other stuff that comes along with that mess.

[george daniel]

Sounds like someone who knows you.


Yep,, good chance that you know that person

[1996blackmax]

That is what I was thinking, but this happened in Orange County. I am a little ways away from there. I do not hang around any shady people, and my free time is mostly dedicated to my family. I can't wait to go to the DMV and see the whole story.

[Dennis Gardner]

Thats strange, as BlackMax is not a very common name...:D

[1996blackmax]

More common than you think............. Well at least the name my parents gave me :).

[neomagus00]

jeez, dude, good luck at the dmv!

[deepinya]

They just wanted to hear the Rainbows :p and be thankful those gloves werent put on for a deep anal cavity search.

!!

[MacLeod]

Same thing kinda happened to me. In 2000 when I moved back to Chattanooga (Ringgold, GA - a suburb outisde Chatty) I went to get my liscense switched over from my Texas one. They ran a records check and said they couldnt do it because there was a warrant for my arrest in Ohio!! At this time, the farthest north Id ever been was Kentucky!

Well they give me the numbers to call and so I do and come to find out some dude with my exact name, first middle and last, and birthdate had the warrant issued. The only thing that seperated them was my social security number.

Computers scare the hell out of me. Like that bogus ticket I got from that asshole state trooper in that suck hole state of kentucky. I keep thinking what if I pay it and it slipps thru the cracks then the next time Im cruising thru there I get pulled over and there is a warrant for me!

[brettw22]

I shred every single piece of paper with my name/address that's going out of my place and into the garbage. I had someone send me a W2 one year and when I called asking who they were they said tey were a company that installed bathroom stalls....I'm like.....um.......not me.

[wingnut4772]

If you were not under arrest they can not search your car without your permission except for the areas within your 'span of control' for weapons.

[Demiurge]

I shred every single piece of paper with my name/address that's going out of my place and into the garbage. I had someone send me a W2 one year and when I called asking who they were they said tey were a company that installed bathroom stalls....I'm like.....um.......not me.

Same here, it's a total habit now. 2 of my friends have had problem with identity theft and it's such a nightmare to go through. I feel terrible for anyone who has to go through that.

[MacLeod]

They can search if they come up with probably cause which they can get pretty easy. Thats why they always ask where youre going. If you sputter or dont make sense then they have cause to search your car. Driving on a suspended license AND having a warrant out for your arrest is probable cause to search your car I would think. Im no lawyer but this is my laymans understanding of it.

I was truckdriver and we got a pretty good lesson in this crap. Legally a cop can pull a truck over any time they feel like it in order to inspect the safety of the truck. They then will try to search your truck and most agree to it thinking they have no choice. They still require PC in order to search your truck but it is sooooo easy for them to get PC that its best to just consent.

If you have alcohol or drugs in your rig youre screwed so you should call a lawyer. Having a small gun tho isnt that big a deal believe it or not. Me and a trainer got pulled over once and the scumbag trooper went thru his usual crap. When he asked to search the rig, my trainer consented but said, "I have a .38 revolver in the right drawer under the bottome bunk." The cop said ok, went in and found it and held it while he searched. He found nothing else, replaced the gun and then wrote the trainer a citation for some stupid violation with the log book and then left. I asked my trainer WTF just happened. He explained that even tho these guys are scum and live to f*** with truckers they at least understand that we live in these things 28 days a month and having a small gun for protection makes just as much sense as owning a gun for protection in your home.

Again, I know of no laws that state this but its just what Ive always been told by OTR truckers. Now if youve got an AK47 or something like that then youre screwed.

[1996blackmax]

I know that I could have refused the search, but sometimes playing along actually helps out. The guy just kind of looked around some, no reall digging. My center console, and glovebox had aready been opened by me. In the end I was thankful that they did not tow my car away, did not give me a ticket, and just let me drive away. I will let you guys know what happens on Monday at the DMV.

By the way I alway shred all of my stuff. My name is the Spanish version of John Smith, so it's very common. I guess it's not that uncommon for the crooks to use that name as well.

[MacLeod]

Nothing wrong with letting them search, unless youve got something they dont need to find. The few times Ive been in that situation I have always happily agreed to let them search it. If they want to search it theyll find a reason and pissing them off is only going to make things harder on you. So unless youve got a dime bag or something in the glove box, just let em search it.

[kingsqueak]

I used to hate it when I would get a request to run a background check on "Juan Lopez" or "Mike Smith". Any common name, you are guaranteed to get a hit for a murder warrant or something similarly ugly. Back ten years ago the search system was extremely crude, very powerful but you needed to understand an almost SQL type syntax to manually build a search string.

Anyone with a particularly common name, best advice to you, always carry proper ID. You'll get tied up much longer than most if you get into the whole records check mess. The systems are getting better now, with some using digitized photos that pop right up in the patrol car terminals, but those systems are only in the major cities for the most part.

The up side was that you hade some civilized officers that handled you professionally.

Curiously one of the only other stories I've heard about a license dupe/warrant like this was from a guy I sit next to now....it was also a California DMV issue.

[michael_w]

If you were not under arrest they can not search your car without your permission except for the areas within your 'span of control' for weapons.
So does that mean they can just pat you down?

I know you can refuse a search but doesn't that just give them a suspicious feeling and then they'll hunt for a reason to search the vehicle? What do you do when people tell you that no you can't search their car?

[wingnut4772]

Well it depends...what do I do? I don't search the car ...UNLESS I have a really good suspicion that there are drugs inside. Then we are allowed to detain for a REASONABLE amount of time for a drug dog.
Yes. We can pat you down for our safety but not go inside pockets unless we feel something that could be a weapon or contrabad. Unfortunately there will always be some officers that bend these rules.

[swerve]

damn kids, their cars, their drug problems, and their common names... RUINING IT ALL FOR THE GOOD PEOPLE

UGH

[1996blackmax]

Here is what happened today. Went to the DMV, they could do nothing for me. They did give me a printout with the docket # on it as well as the violation date. There are 3 sections that were violated (passing a stop sign/red light, no insurance, no valid license), plus the addition of failing to appear in court. The DMV ladies told me that I would have to contact the Orange County Superior Court, in Laguna Hills. I don't even know where Laguan Hills is. I know it's up by L.A. somewhere but that's it.

Well, I finally get through on the phone and the lady just keeps telling me that I have to go and make a personal appearance in front of the judge. This would mean I would have to probably get going out of here at around 4:30 AM or so to be sure I am there on time. Probably earlier to deal with the L.A. traffic. I told her that I had already taken the day off, and did not want to do that again. She then said you have to be here by 8 AM tomorrow morning. I asked her if I could fax or mail the stuff in proving who I was. She said no, can't do this. We went round and round. She finally put me through to a supervisor. At first she said she is busy right now. I then say "may I speak to someone else in charge", she then said, "we have new manager, but she not here right now".

After finally getting through to the supervisor and explaining the situation, the lady said, "you can go head and mail a copy of your license and a letter signed by you stating that it was not you who received the citations". She was very nice, and explained that this happens pretty frequently. I told her what the other lady had said, and she said that it is preferred to be present in front of the judge, but not necessary (this happens to people who do not live in the state anymore). The reaon for this is that they can give you a paper saying that your license is no longer suspended (a Fast Track / DL157) on the spot, while they deal with Sacramento and clean out your record.

Well I send 2 copies of my license, one light and one dark, a copy of my passport (xtra insurance), a copy of my insurance papers from around the time of the citation and now, and the letter explaining my situation. Should be there tomorrow by noon. Hopefully this will be all I have to do. I guess I will find out soon.

[audiobliss]

Hope it works for ya!

[1996blackmax]

Thanks bliss.

[neomagus00]

yeah, good luck, man... although if it 'happens a lot', it's probably going to be more an annoyance and headache than anything else, which is something to be grateful for...

[swerve]

good luck!

[wingnut4772]

It does happen all the time as I see it quite often. It is just a huge PITA to take care of. Make sure that when you get your clearance letter that you carry it on your person because the only record of it will be in your hot little hands as far as the Po Po go. Good Luck.

[daniel_paul_]

You might want to get a copy of your credit report. Check out annualcreditreport.com. I am pretty sure that you can get the 3 major reports through them for FREE. Equifax, experian, transunion are the 3. I would be worried about Identity theft. Plus this is a good thing to have anyway!!!

[1996blackmax]

Good info guys :).


I had planned to do that just to make sure everything was ok. Thanks for the link.

[PoweredByDodge]

Next time you tell them that you are not stepping out of the vehicle unless you are under arrest, and that they may not search the vehicle unless they have a warrant signed by a judge. And then tell them to have a nice day and drive away.

[bobman1235]

And then enjoy the beating you get and the nice night in prison.

[1996blackmax]

Next time you tell them that you are not stepping out of the vehicle unless you are under arrest, and that they may not search the vehicle unless they have a warrant signed by a judge. And then tell them to have a nice day and drive away.


Not a very smart thing to do when they run your license and all that stuff comes up that was on mine. Granted it was not me that got the citations, failure to pay, or the failure to appear in court, but I will not push the issue. Especially when my license was also suspended for this reason. They were actaully pretty cool considering the situation. At first the one officer I though was going to be difficult with me, since he mintioned my front window being tinted. They are only tinted at 50%, so they are pretty light. I did not feel that they were disrespectful at any time. They could have just said we do not believe you, have given me some citations, as well as have my car towed. I was thankful they did not.

[1996blackmax]

On a side note. I have been lucky to have known some very good police officers. I have alot of respect for them, the work that they do, and know that it's not always an easy job. I have also known some that were not worthy of having that responsibility. I do not play around when it comes to the police.

My sister actually has some friends in the police department here in San Diego. They sometimes come by and say hi when she is here. They patrol the area that my house is in.

[neomagus00]

Not a very smart thing to do when they run your license and all that stuff comes up that was on mine. Granted it was not me that got the citations, failure to pay, or the failure to appear in court, but I will not push the issue. Especially when my license was also suspended for this reason. They were actaully pretty cool considering the situation. At first the one officer I though was going to be difficult with me, since he mintioned my front window being tinted. They are only tinted at 50%, so they are pretty light. I did not feel that they were disrespectful at any time. They could have just said we do not believe you, have given me some citations, as well as have my car towed. I was thankful they did not.
i'm fairly confident that this is typical pbd political humor...

[1996blackmax]

I thought the same thing ;), but still..........

He actually makes me laugh out loud quite a bit :D.

[kingsqueak]

At first the one officer I though was going to be difficult with me, since he mintioned my front window being tinted. They are only tinted at 50%, so they are pretty light.

If you couldn't already figure this out, a cop hates tint not because of the law against it but because of the reason for the law. Tint tells a cop that you are trying to hide behind it. Either hide activities or people. I hated walking up on cars with tint.

A cop is trying to figure out if someone's smoking crack behind that tint or pointing a shotgun at him.

Best tip is to drop all the windows in the car if you run tint and get pulled over, turn on your interior lights as well, particularly if it's getting dark out. You won't get much hassle at all if you do that unless the guy has a real hard-on.

The perfect stop for me would be to walk up, see both driver's side windows open if tinted, interior light on and the driver's wallet with all his paperwork in it in the driver's hands on the steering wheel. The cop can plainly see what is going on and if he needs your paperwork you aren't diving accross the car to go dig for it.

[audiobliss]

Best tip is to drop all the windows in the car if you run tint and get pulled over, turn on your interior lights as well, particularly if it's getting dark out. You won't get much hassle at all if you do that unless the guy has a real hard-on.
Now that makes sense. Never would've thought about it, though.

[exalted512]

Tint tells a cop that you are trying to hide behind it. Either hide activities or people. .
thats why cops are cops...because theyre stupid. I get tint to hide my possessions from possible intruders. Yay for putting everyone with tint in one big group.

Ive had the pleasuse of getting pulled over 5 times. I always roll my windows down and put my hands on the steering wheel(now I do). The second time I got pulled over I had a gun pointing at my head for having reached into my glove box...before the cop even got out of the car. By the time he had reached the car I had both my insurance and drivers license in my hand. I hadnt been paying attention to the officer, and once I look out my window I'm staring down the barrel of a police issued side arm. I about shit my pants. The reason I got pulled over was for going 72 in a 65. There were no warrants out for me, no bad guys with a truck that looked like mine, but he felt it necessary to draw his gun on me. I took him to court and got my ticket revoked and he got a point on some kind of point system because he had no reason to draw his gun and didnt fill out the paper work properly for why he drew his gun.

Out of those 5 experiences, Ive had 2 good ones. Not because I didnt get a ticket, because I did, but just because some cops are really disrepectful. Theyre not above the law, they only enforce it.
-Cody

[bobman1235]

thats why cops are cops...because theyre stupid.

Wow. I'm sure a guy putting his life on the line to protect your ass appreciates the sentiment. They're all not perfect, but I think the generalization that all cops are stupid might be a little worse than the fact that all jerkoffs with too much tint on their windows are trying to hide from teh cops. If I had to walk up to a car with fear of a getting shot in the gut from behind a tinted window I might be a little cautious myself.

Grow up.

[kingsqueak]

I posted what I posted so that people like exalted could see how a cop is thinking and figured it would be pretty obvious why that is....goes to show you that some people just can't see.

I dislike many cops myself, I've had my share of trouble in the past. I quit working in the field because I didn't agree with too many things about the work to even get started listing. But I did learn a giant chunk about human nature and have an utterly different understanding of what a cop has to go through from day to day.

Most people are good by nature, however you truly can't trust anyone as a cop. It's just not safe. Best you can do is control your responses and hope that you are the 1% that can go home and leave the job behind at the end of the shift.

One short example. I run accross a guy, really pretty loaded and walking down a dark road. I try to do the guy a favor and get him out of the road and on his way so he doesn't get run over. Guy was clean cut looking, avg Joe, nothing too odd about him. Something wasn't right, just my instincts telling me he was 'wrong'. I still go on about getting him out of the road and moving, no big deal. I turned my head for a split second to get to my radio mic and took a freaking bowie knife diagonally accross my back.

Lucky for me I had on a really heavy winter parka so it never got through. This was the second coat that was slashed open, the first was a drunk with a boxcutter he had concealed during a fight.

The bowie knife guy had an out of state traffic warrant...that was all. I wasn't even intending on checking the guy out, it was all to do him a favor and keep him from being run over.

This is what the job is, day in day out, you see mostly the worst side of people. It's a side that the public doesn't even realize exists and can never truly appreciate unless they have worked in emergency services. The public couch quarterbacks through legislation and makes the job even more impossible for the few guys that truly intend on doing it right. It's a no win and I'm amazed that any decent people stay in the field honestly.

All I'm telling is the truth from experience and basically I've done what I could to help people from getting unnecessary flack on a stop. Dealing with people like exalted just ruins it for everyone else, but that's what a cop is stuck with. All you can do is limit how much you provoke the cop if you run into one.

[Kirk]

Amen Kings.... Here in NYC if I roll up on you during a car stop and you have dark tinted windows I don't even get out of the car untill the driver rolls down all the windows, turns on the interior light, turns off the engine and puts the keys on the roof and then sticks both his/her hands out the drivers window.. I've had a friends killed in the line of duty when he was walking up to talk to the driver of an SUV when he was shot in the head. Tinted windows serve no function other than as a tool that you can use to convince your girlfriend that, "Don't worry honey, no one can see in the car the windows are tinted, just take off your clothes." And Blackmax, you did everything right.. They just would have taken you in, then inventoried your vehicle for safe keeping anyway and found anything that you were hiding.... Don't give up on the DMV either, keep on them, remember they are lazy and your letter could get lost. Did you send it registered return receipt? If not, sent it again that way.. KIRK

[daniel_paul_]

I do the window down, lights on thing. The last time I got pulled over the cop was looking for an excuse to let me go. So I said "sure I know so-n-so. Real stand up guy." Off I went.

I am cool with city cops for the most part. It the suburban pansies that have nothing better to do then bother people.

[mldennison]

The perfect stop for me would be to walk up, see both driver's side windows open if tinted, interior light on and the driver's wallet with all his paperwork in it in the driver's hands on the steering wheel. The cop can plainly see what is going on and if he needs your paperwork you aren't diving accross the car to go dig for it.

see i have been told the opposite. if you are messing around with getting things out of the glovebox, opening windows, turning off lights, etc. that the officer would be more suspicious since he/she has no idea what you are doing. i dont have tinted windows and a pretty benign looking car and not doing anything until told to has always served me well. do you think that is a better way of going about it?

[bobman1235]

Gotta agree. I always go with the sit quietly with hands in full view and window down unti the cop gets there and asks for the license and whatnot, just so I'm not fiddling around.

[kingsqueak]

That works too, just have your info easily available and keep your hands in the clear. Even without tint, at night, put your dome light on. Nobody I've ever met on the job would think much of that except that you are showing them that you don't have anything to hide or that you have a car full of people.

If the guy pulls you over by the numbers, you will have time to get things in order before he gets out of the car. If the guy is next to your window before you can get the car in park, one of two things is happening.

The guy is a completely reckless moron with no concern for his own safety....meaning he never waited to get the results back on your plate.

Or the guy ran your plate before he decided to pull you over....which can be a bit shady as they aren't supposed to run the plate unless you did something wrong (though since the advent of mobile terminals, everybody does this)....and if they see you have a previous record, they could then decide you have done something wrong and pull you over anyway (this happens _constantly_ particularly in the suburban revenuer mode of policing).

[1996blackmax]

If you couldn't already figure this out, a cop hates tint not because of the law against it but because of the reason for the law. Tint tells a cop that you are trying to hide behind it. Either hide activities or people.


My tint is actually pretty light up front, some people do not even know that my fronts are tinted. I have tint due to the sun, I live in Southern California. Nothing to hide here.


I do have common sense and my windows were down when I was pulled over.

[exalted512]

Wow. I'm sure a guy putting his life on the line to protect your ass appreciates the sentiment. They're all not perfect, but I think the generalization that all cops are stupid might be a little worse than the fact that all jerkoffs with too much tint on their windows are trying to hide from teh cops. If I had to walk up to a car with fear of a getting shot in the gut from behind a tinted window I might be a little cautious myself.

Grow up.
this was exactly what i was expecting to hear back. Thanks for proving my point, dont label the majority because of a minority.

I dont really think all cops are stupid. in all honesty, ive never met one that i would consider stupid, i was just trying to prove a point. But it has been, in my experience, that more than half of cops abuse their power and are disrespectful. People see it everyday. Is it legal for a police car to be speeding if they dont have their lights on? Pretty sure it isnt. I see it all the time.

The reason people dislike police officers so much is because they are never treated with respect initially. Just because you were going 72 in a 65 does not mean youre a convicted felon.
-Cody

[neomagus00]

Just because you were going 72 in a 65 does not mean youre a convicted felon.
-Cody
and most cops don't treat you as one, unless you're being disrespectful towards them... yeah, they can get away with speeding cause they're a cop, and yeah, it's way unfair, but in the grand scheme of things, who gives a rat's ass? i personally would not want to trade places with them and have to deal with some of the stuff they have to handle...

and 'respect is a two-way street', but someone's gotta give it first, and it's probably not gonna be him...

[wingnut4772]

thats why cops are cops...because theyre stupid. I get tint to hide my possessions from possible intruders. Yay for putting everyone with tint in one big group.

What a moronic statement.....but wait! Maybe I am stupid because I put my life on the line protecting people like you.

[deepinya]

"Don't worry honey, no one can see in the car the windows are tinted, just take off your clothes."

Whats wrong with that?!

/makes mental note: tint vehicle ASAP

[Silverhawk]

In response to Powered by Dodge on not getting out of the car and driving away.. I think most of the ADULTS on this forum would agree this would not be the correct thing to do. It is unfortunate that this type of behavior occurs. Stolen identity is a big money maker these days and causes alot of headaches for the honest people who are the victims. Why would you want to bring more charges on youself like interference with the duties of a police officer and or attempting to elude when you have nothing to hide. Instead of having to bond out of jail and appear in court while spending alot of money to boot. He was released without recieving a ticket for the original traffic stop, having to bond out on charges that belong to another person. The police could have arrested him on these charges anyway and let him prove in court that he was not the perp. Instead he got information on how to clear his name and a "good day" from the officer. I hope ya get it worked out...

[audiobliss]

LOL...come on man...PBD wasn't serious...:p

[Silverhawk]

If his post had smilie faces, LOL, or just kidding somewhere on his post It would appear to be a joke. I was just going on a comment that had no indications of being funny. If he truly ment it as a joke I would retract my statment and direct it more toward the poeple who have a lack of common sense.

[daniel_paul_]

Lets not forget that you were doing something wrong to get pulled over in the first place. The game becomes "how to get out without paying any money." Skrew right and wrong. I win if I get off the hook. That is how I see the game. If the book starts to fly that when you say "up your" because you already lost and all that is left is potential for a funny bar story. And most tough talkers cry in front of the judge when they are faced with a huge ticket. "Oh, I didn't do that...But...But...come on"

[wingnut4772]

I guess I jumped to my post before I knew that you were not serious.

[PoweredByDodge]

I agree... the tint "hardon" has been due to an inability to see inside the car.

Do you want to walk toward a car possibly full of stoned kids with daddy's revolver? I know I don't.

I used to do limo black because I thought it was cool... never got hassled, but I realized it's an issue... now I do 60 on the back, 30 on the fronts, no visor. The cadillac is 60 all the way around, but it's big enough inside that light escapes easily.

If you're limo-blacking it, then you're asking for trouble. I don't see 50 as an issue on the sides... and chances are neither did the cop - he probably got ticked over not being able to see in your rear window.

far as my previous comment -- i actually meant it. i won't step out of a car for a cop unless i actually did something wrong and i'm trying to be polite ot get out of trouble.

unless you were 20 over the speed limit or did something else horrid... stay in your car. if they really want to search your vehicle and are bugging you to get out - tell them you will follow them to their precinct house where you will only submit to a search if your public defender tells you that the police have proven probably cause. worst case scenario you get stuck at the precinct for a while ... but its a lot better than planted evidence.

and no i don't think that cops are like that...

the 1% of police that pull shit give the 99% of honest ones a terrible name.

but here's the thing... they have guns, you don't -- and if it comes down to going to court and the only two people there were you and the cop (at the supposed crimescene) - then who is the jury going to believe... you or a cop?

hence, if you drive to the precinct they can't get you for evading, and when the vehicle is searched your public defender can demand it be video taped.

[PoweredByDodge]

And most tough talkers cry in front of the judge when they are faced with a huge ticket. "Oh, I didn't do that...But...But...come on"

couple years ago i got a ticket for going something near 70 in a 55.

the trooper was up on an overpass gunning the highway below.

when i was pulled over, they gave me a ticket without even giving me a chance to speak.

i called the trooper station that night, talked to a lieutenant who told me what brand and model laser/radar guns were being used.

i then googled the company, called them, and was able to download their user manual from their ftp.

the manual stated that the gun should only be used on flat terrain (no hills, not dips), and that the user should hold the gun at an angle no more than 5 degrees from horizontal in order to ensure accuracy.

the manual also stated the maximum range of the gun.

combining the 5 degree angle with maximum range, i was able to determine that the trooper gunning was using it improperly

the overpass was roughly 30 feet off the road's surface (as my photo of the little truck driver clearanace sign showed).

at 30 feet off the ground, max range yields the angle closest to horizontal or 0 degrees... it was something way off like 20 degrees. that's 15 degrees beyond the accurate range of the gun.

i showed all this data to the prosecutor when i went to my court date -- he didn't want to let me talk and said, "you can have 150 dollar ticket and school, or a 300 dollar ticket and no school" -- i said, "but i have proof the guns were used improperly" -- i explained it to him, and halfway through it he told me "shut the hell up, i dont even know what you're saying, deal or no deal?" -- to which i responded, "what community college did you get your law degree from?" said i'd take the deal...

went to the judge 4 hours of standing in line later.

judge says, "name?" -- "ticket #?" --- i tell him...

he says. "ok, and u have plead out -- do you confirm this?"

i said, "yes, but can i make a statement for the record?"

he's like "sure"

so i explained the entire thing, in detail, my findings, showed him the user manual with highlighted sections and the clearane photo, along with my handwritten notes of the name of the trooper who was gunning off the bridge as given to me by the lieutenant.

the judge listened, and then said, "did you tell the prosecutor this?"

i said, "yes, but he said to shut up because he didn't understand any of it"

the judge said, "*mumble* and we pay these people *mumble* ... well kid, how fast were you actually going?"

so i told him, "i refuse to answer that question on the grounds that the answer may incriminate me".

he broke out laughing like a son of a bitch.

finally he goes, "tell you what, take a 3 hour driver education class, and we'll call it even, the class will cost you 20 dollars and you'll save money on your insurance too --- i'll dismiss the case for lack of evidence, ok?"

i'm like "fine by me".

and that was the end of it.

[audiobliss]

ROFL!! Man, that's a great story. You went to great lengths to prove that, but that's great. I would never have thought about the gun being used improperly.

That story belongs in the joke thread...made me laugh just as much as any of the jokes!

so i told him, "i refuse to answer that question on the grounds that the answer may incriminate me".

That's awesome!

[neomagus00]

hey, it's the fifth amendment, totally legal :p

[MacLeod]

Here is my opinion on cops:

Cops often get a bad rap because when they pull somebody over theyre rude. So what?! Cops arent customer service representatives, theyre law enforcement. Being polite shouldnt be a job requirement but unfortunately in these super PC times, it has become one.

Ive wanted to be a cop since I was a kid but because of affirmative action and the good old boy system I could never get my foot in the door which is BS. However, I no longer want to be in law enforcement because of what the sensitivity crowd has turned the police department into. "Now while youre out there in a shootout with a vicious gang of drug dealers, make sure youre polite!" Gimme a break!

Now as for my "I hate state troopers" comment, I stand by that. State troopers dont have any crime to deal with, thats handled by the city and county boys, so all they do is sit on the side of the road and nail people for speeding. That is perfectly fine because theyre simply enforcing the law. My problem is they take no circumstances under consideration. I got a ticket 2 years ago doing 66 in a 55! I was in the slow lane and keeping up with the flow of traffic. Same with the ticket I got 2 weeks ago, slow lane, flow of traffic. Now I have a CDL and drive for a living and a ticket is a HUGE problem for me (nevermind the $200 fine!) and I dont consider it unreasonable for some trooper to take into consideration that I wasnt driving wreckless or even any faster than the rest of traffic and cut me some slack, either in a written warning or at least cutting the speed down.

Also, troopers live to mess with truckers. You havent lived til youre minding your own business driving down the road and get pulled over for no reason (which is perfectly leagal for an 18 wheeler) and held up on the side of the road for UP TO AN HOUR while Barney goes over everything with a fine tooth comb, finds nothing and lets you go ONLY TO HAVE TO GO THRU THE SAME F***ING THING IN THE NEXT STATE! And dont give me this safety crap. These trucks are obsessively maintained because its unbelievably expensive for a truck to break down on the side of the road not to mention the possibility of law suits.

I cant count the hours Ive lost on the side of the road while John Q Law is crawling unde my truck from bumper to bumper yet I have NEVER been cited for a violation! And dont even get me started on the pieces of human debris that occupy these weigh stations! These morons had spitwads thrown at them and been shoved into lockers all thru high school and for the first time ever, have a little authority and by Gawd, theyre gonna get some payback!

So for the cops out there protecting my ass by going toe to toe with the worst in society, I thank you and salute you and think its stupid that you can face disciplinary action for being rude to somebody!

For the cops that have nothing to do but sit on the side of the road for hours on end costing people doing 66 in a 55 hundreds of dollars and endangering their livelyhood, or keeping me on the side of the road for 45 minutes while you calculate my log entries, I say blow me!

[deepinya]

Since when is going the flow of traffic against the law? Here in NJ when you take the written exam for your license there is a question about this very topic.

Something along the lines of:
If the speed limit is 55 and the flow of traffic is 60
What speed should you travel?
the answer: 60

[michael_w]

I don't know aout NJ but here the speed limit is the speed limit. It doesn't matter if everybody else is doing 70 in a 50 zone, you have to do 50 otherwise you risk getting a ticket. If you just say that you were following the flow of traffic they'll probably laugh at you.

More often than not if you are pulled over for speeding and you're just going along with the traffic flow it's probably because you also did something else (like sped up to pass someone).

[heiney9]

Or the guy ran your plate before he decided to pull you over....which can be a bit shady as they aren't supposed to run the plate unless you did something wrong (though since the advent of mobile terminals, everybody does this)....and if they see you have a previous record, they could then decide you have done something wrong and pull you over anyway (this happens _constantly_ particularly in the suburban revenuer mode of policing).

That's what happened to me. I was coming back from Subway after lunch heading back to work. I was pulling out on a 4 lane route thru town and as I was pulling into my owm lane a police car passed in the other (going the same direction). I had turn signal on, etc. For about a mile the police car is about 4-5 car lengths ahead of me. I'm in the right lane she's in the left lane and she starts to slow down below the speed limit, so I make sure I'm atleast going the speed limit (don't want to speed) and she continues to slow down almost 10 mph under the speed limit, I pass in the normal flow of traffic and she eventually pulls in behind me and follows me real close for about 1-1.5 miles more.

I come up to a stop light and signal to turn right on the road that my work is on. After about 3-4 blocks, her still following me, I turn into the parking lot at work and pull into a parking space she pulls perpendicular behind me and the lights come on. I'm like WTF :confused: . She asks me if my plates are for my car, I say well what does your computer say......of course these are the plates for my car. She could obviously see on her screen. She said your plates come back as expired. I said well if you look at the sticker (in Illinois we have different colored stickers for each month of the year and in big letters it says '06) you can see it's current. She walks up to the car and rubs the sticker like it's not real or something. She says well it comes back expired. I show her my license and registration (which shows it's current) and then we BOTH discover my DL expired on my b-day and I forgot about it. Damn!!! More money for city.

I got a ticket for $50 all because for no apparent reason (I asked why she ran my plate and she said because it was expired) she ran my plate randomly and wouldn't answer when I asked why she ran my plate. I have a normal car I was dressed in work clothes coming out of restaurant at lunch time in a busy business area with the correct color and year tag. Plus my car is not very common anymore so I know it wasn't because of a similar suspicious vehicle. I was very angry that she could just randomly run plates and pull me over for soemthing that she could clearly (visually) see was not an issue. That's the kind of crap that gives cops a bad name, IMO. I mean atleast be honest with me when I ask why you ran my plates. You expect us to be honest and forthwith when you are asking questions.

H9

[MacLeod]

More often than not if you are pulled over for speeding and you're just going along with the traffic flow it's probably because you also did something else (like sped up to pass someone).


Or have a 20' long, 7' tall solid white Dodge Ram 4 door. They tend to stick out so when John Q Law is sitting on the side of the road with his little lazer gun, he will be drawn to the big white truck and see that Im doing 67 in a 55 even tho everybody else is going 67, Im the one that gets nailed. Then when he sees Ive got a CDL, his eyes light up and Im screwed!

[brettw22]

I've been driving around a LOT here in IL and IA and they've been using Laser a lot more than I've experienced in the past...... (my radar detector doesn't lie).....

I'm seriously considering getting a laser scrambler...

[1996blackmax]

Today I called the nice lady that helped me out earlier, she was the supervisor I spoke with. She said the paperwork was faxed over to Sacramento, where the head office of the DMV in California is. She really got on the ball with this. She received my stuff on Tuesday (I mailed it out over night on Monday), and got this to the judge, and then out to the DMV the day after. She was nice enough to also check the DMV records, which now show nothing. All is clear :D.

[george daniel]

Okay,, I'll bite,, what's a CDL :confused:

[heiney9]

Okay,, I'll bite,, what's a CDL :confused:

Commercial Drivers License

[exalted512]

CDL is what big rig drivers have to have. But getting a ticket is 10x worse than a regular license. Youre on a points system and if you get too many tickets you lose your license, then youre out of a job. Also, if you get into a wreck, even if it wasnt your fault, you get penalized for it. I dont know all the exact details, but its very, very strict.
-Cody

[98thumpin]

dude i hope it gets straightend out for ya

[MacLeod]

CDL is what big rig drivers have to have. But getting a ticket is 10x worse than a regular license. Youre on a points system and if you get too many tickets you lose your license, then youre out of a job. Also, if you get into a wreck, even if it wasnt your fault, you get penalized for it. I dont know all the exact details, but its very, very strict.
-Cody


Yup. They dont classify wrecks by your fault or not, its either preventable or non preventable. Many truckers have been screwed over by some dumbass running a red light and slamming into the cab of the truck as it passed thru the intersection. Well guess what, thats a preventable accident. They figure if you were hit in the front then you shouldve seen he wasnt going to stop and avoided it.

1 preventable accident on your record and you wont get hired by anybody good til its off. Same with tickets, you have 2 or more and youll not get a job. You cant go to defensive driving class either, once you get a ticket, its on there forever.

This and the EVIL trucking companies are why I got out of trucking.

[98thumpin]

i got pulled over for a stupid inspection sticker yesterday on my way to work
86 doller fine for a damn sticker.

[bobman1235]

Even worse - it's considered a moving violation, and therefore points on your license, at least in NH / MA. I'm STILL paying for my expired inspection sticker from 4 years ago.

[98thumpin]

well i live in virgina but still its a damn sticker big fuckin deal u know. i mean yeah i could understrand if i actually did something bad no its a sticker,

[george daniel]

once in georgia,I got a ticket for not having an inpesction sticker,on a car that was registered in another state,(which did not require one),went to court and the judge threw it out--had to take the day off though

[1996blackmax]

I am just glad I can drive again........... At least legally :D

[MacLeod]

Inspection stickers are the biggest load of crap every. And dont feed me this "safety" crap either. Its a fee grab plain and simple.

They just started one here in Hamilton county. The dimwit politicians caved in to the communist environmentalists and so we have to have a emessions test done before we can get our tags. Its caused so many problems its not funny and there is a huge uproar over it. A buddy of mine has a late model Lexus and failed the inspection cause his computer was acting screwy. $1400 to get it fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cant wait til I move back into Georgia in a few months.

[1996blackmax]

Better for the environment though :D.

[exalted512]

down with ozone!
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Better for the environment though :D.

Give me a break! Its about more taxes and bigger government and thats all its about.

[1996blackmax]

Try driving around in Los Angeles, San Francisco, or even here in San Diego. When coming driving on certain road I could see the smog over the city.

[1996blackmax]

I do not agree with elevated fines for not having your sticker, but your car should be at a certain limit for pollution.

[Kirk]

Buy an SUV.. No emissions inspection just safety. You can thank Al Gore for that...

[MrNightly]

Or the guy ran your plate before he decided to pull you over....which can be a bit shady as they aren't supposed to run the plate unless you did something wrong (though since the advent of mobile terminals, everybody does this)....and if they see you have a previous record, they could then decide you have done something wrong and pull you over anyway (this happens _constantly_ particularly in the suburban revenuer mode of policing).

I don't know where you worked the street, but that is the stupidest statement I've ever heard. Nothing on your vehicle, especially the tag, is private. Hence, the tag. Anyone can copy a tag number down, especially police. I would ALWAYS run tags, and it the furthest things from "Shady" in the book. All tags are fair game... when I wore blue, I made tons of arrests off warrants on tags. Run the tag, find a warrant, book 'em. Probable Cause in the tag.

Anyways, had to comment on that.

Out

[PoweredByDodge]

tisk tisk tisk -- if you can't pass emissions, it means you're screwing with equipment that is mandated and controlled by the federal government during vehicle manufacture. either that, or said equipment broke down, in which case, it is covered, by law, by the manufacturer for 8 years or 80k miles... www.epa.gov.

[MacLeod]

MrKnightly is right, and to get technical about it, a tag is government property. Evidenced by the fact they can take it back and/or suspend it. Just like your drivers license is government property.

And no Vinny, it can also mean that some tiny, trivial part of the computer isnt working properly although the car is running just fine. Emissions testing is a crock and a revenue source plain and simple. It has no effect on the "environment".

And the reason for smog is because of the volume of cars. I dont care how much emissions testing you have, you stick a billion cars in gridlock on the freeway for 8 hours a day and I guarantee you youll have smog. And smog is mainly cosmetic. Its not screwing up the atmosphere or depleting the ozone layer. If you consider the ENORMOUS size of the atmosphere, thinking the amount of smog is damaging the atmosphere is the same as sitting in a row boat in the middle of the Pacific with a dropper of black dye thinking youre going to change the color of the ocean. Not only is the atmostphere tens of thousands of miles across, its also a couple hundred miles thick. We couldnt destroy the atmosphere if we wanted to.

[1996blackmax]

I guess all that data is incorrect..........

For us who live in these areas, having cars that are gross polluters is a problem. I know that you can fail emissions due to sensors. Heck I had a heck of a time passing the test just because my computer sensors said they were not ready. Took me a while to get them to kick in. The car's emissions were fine, just those monitors would not kick it. I think that is ridiculous.

[1996blackmax]

Also if enough of drops of oil fell it would be an issue. Just because someone is dropping a little "oil" and ours are small drops too, it does not make it right to drop oil in the ocean.

[MacLeod]

Dude, you know that on the oceans floor there are geysers of oil spewing into the ocean up from the earths crust at the rated of millions of gallons a day? This has been going on for eons. Notice that there arent any pools of oil on top of the ocean and its still blue?

This planet has been here for BILLIONS of years and bigger than most people can comprehend. We couldnt change the climate or destroy the oceans or atmosphere if we wanted to.

[exalted512]

you obviously havent seen the Day After Tomorrow
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Oh you mean one of the DNC's recent sci-fi political ads?

Now go ask a scientist about that movie and watch him ----> http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif

[heiney9]

I don't know where you worked the street, but that is the stupidest statement I've ever heard. Nothing on your vehicle, especially the tag, is private. Hence, the tag. Anyone can copy a tag number down, especially police. I would ALWAYS run tags, and it the furthest things from "Shady" in the book. All tags are fair game... when I wore blue, I made tons of arrests off warrants on tags. Run the tag, find a warrant, book 'em. Probable Cause in the tag.

Anyways, had to comment on that.

Out

Why not drive around and run tags on cars parked in drive-ways and then knock on their door and arrest them. Why not just randomly knock on doors and runs people's names and SS#. It's the same principle, but less effort is needed to run a tag from your drivers seat. I think it stinks because one should atleast have probable cause/ be in violation to have their information run. And NO, I've never been in trouble with the law or ever had an outstanding warrant, etc. It just seems to give it a bit of a police state if officers are spending time running around looking up tags in the hope they can make that big arrest or issue a ticket. Again just randomly walk up to people on the street or in their offices and ask for their info to see if they are in violation of anything. As I mentioned I was randomly targeted, doing nothing wrong and having nothing wrong. It was a hassle and a waste of the officers time as well as mine. For the record I don't agree with random "saftey checks" either. I think it's an infringement on my rights and I shouldn't have to comply if I've done absolutely nothing other than drive down the street.

H9

[MacLeod]

It is no violation of your rights to have your license tag ran whenever they want to. Now if they want to detain and question you then they must have good reason, but to pull up behind you in traffic and run your tag doesnt infringe on your rights in any way. A license tag is a government issued document for your car and as such you have no expectation of privacy in driving around with it on your car. You do however have an expectation of privacy inside your car and therefore police cant just randomly search your car.

This is the stuff Im talking about that made me no longer want to get into law enforcement. Youre expected to fight crime but youd better not be rude or even be seen! You should just automatically know who the criminals are and walk up and arrest them.....just make sure you call them sir or ma'am as theyre shooting at you.

[heiney9]

It is no violation of your rights to have your license tag ran whenever they want to. Now if they want to detain and question you then they must have good reason, but to pull up behind you in traffic and run your tag doesnt infringe on your rights in any way. A license tag is a government issued document for your car and as such you have no expectation of privacy in driving around with it on your car. You do however have an expectation of privacy inside your car and therefore police cant just randomly search your car.

This is the stuff Im talking about that made me no longer want to get into law enforcement. Youre expected to fight crime but youd better not be rude or even be seen! You should just automatically know who the criminals are and walk up and arrest them.....just make sure you call them sir or ma'am as theyre shooting at you.

Yeah I understand and depending on the day of the week I'm on either side of the fence. I just got annoyed the 1 time they wasted my time for no reason whatsoever. I guess once in almost 40 years is something I shouldn't complain about. I'm mostly talking about cops with attitudes that just want to throw their weight around. I know quite a few cops and most are enamored with their authority and just tend to harass people, all legally of course. I just don't see the point of randomly running plates because your bored. And I know I can't generalize and if I come off as generalizing it's not intended. I still don't like check points or saftey checks unless there is a serial killer on the loose.

H9

[neomagus00]

Oh you mean one of the DNC's recent sci-fi political ads?

Now go ask a scientist about that movie and watch him ----> http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif
they did, actually - popular science took four leading climate scientists, and they said that yes, it was overdone, and the timescale was too short, but if you consider it over months instead of weeks, they said it absolutely could happen. one guy compared it to a person slowly pressing on a lightswitch - nothing happens until he puts too much pressure on, then -click- and it all goes downhill...

none of them could say if it would happen in 1 year or 100, but they unanimously agreed that it will, eventually...

and as far as killing the earth, i give you this image of the ozone hole over antarctica... note that the colors don't seem that different, but there's less than half the amount of ozone there now as there was 20 years ago... check the legend carefully:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Library/UVB/Images/antarctic_ozone.jpg
and it can, and has, been shown that this is not a natural thing, we are doing it... the fact that we can measure the ocean rising, even over the course of a couple years, due to melting ice, is testament to the fact that we are doing it - no natural force could melt that much ice, that fast

it is a real problem, and denying it exists doesn't help

[MacLeod]

Ah bull!

First off, if smog is the cause of ozone depletion then why is the ozone hole over Antartica where there is NO population?

Second, nobody denies that the average global temperature is rising, only that we have nothing to do with it! Back in the 70's the hippies were screaming about global cooling because the temperature was falling, now its rising so all of a sudden we're causing global warming.

Think about this, a single volcanic eruption spews out more greenhouse gasses than we have in history (we've only been industrialized a little over a century). Now there have been and continue to be constant volcanic eruptions all over the globe all the time. Do you think its logical that all these eruptions dont bother the earths climate yet the .0000000000000001% of stuff we put in the air does?

Another thing, its recently been discovered that Mars is experiencing global warming too. Does that mean there are SUV's on Mars? Or maybe the cause lies in something that we both have in common....THE SUN!

The sub is millions of times the mass of the earth and a big ball of nuclear gas that burns for 10 billion years. Do you think its going to burn at the same temperature all the time? Hell no! If the sun is burning at 10 million degrees, a change of 20-30 degrees is so miniscual as to not even be noticed but to us it will change the climate. Simple solar flares cause changes in our climate.

Also, the track the earth follows in its orbit is billions of miles long. Do you think it orbits on the exact same path every single year? Its very possible it varies by a mile or two closer or to the sun and that would change the climate.

My point is that there are far too many logical and more possible explanations for the earths temperature to be rising over the last few years to be blaming it on us who have only been industrialized a century and couldnt affect this 4 billion year old planet.

[neomagus00]

First off, if smog is the cause of ozone depletion then why is the ozone hole over Antartica where there is NO population?
an excellent question, one i've never considered... i will research it and let you know (even if i don't like the answer :p)
Second, nobody denies that the average global temperature is rising, only that we have nothing to do with it! Back in the 70's the hippies were screaming about global cooling because the temperature was falling, now its rising so all of a sudden we're causing global warming.
you're using 70s hippies as evidence?? :D
Think about this, a single volcanic eruption spews out more greenhouse gasses than we have in history (we've only been industrialized a little over a century).true, a large eruption yields an enormous amount of crap. it sends a lot of it into the upper atmosphere, where wind disperses it around the entire earth. combined with the dust that accompanies the gases, this tends to cool the earth, rather than warm it (a measurable and confirmed effect). i cannot immediately find an answer to what happens to these gases, but i'll get back to you.

Another thing, its recently been discovered that Mars is experiencing global warming too.i've not heard this... do you have a reference i can read?

on the sun - it is true that there are variations in our orbit, and in the sun's output, but these are reasonably well-understood, and their effect has been taken into account, and it's not enough to cause the rise we've seen. a tidbit - we know the sun operates on a roughly 11-year cycle. the last max was in 2000 (with an echo in 2002), which puts us exactly in the doldrums of the sun's cycle... we should be at the coolest of the past 11 years, but we're not...
My point is that there are far too many logical and more possible explanations for the earths temperature to be rising over the last few years to be blaming it on us who have only been industrialized a century and couldnt affect this 4 billion year old planet.we killed the dodos, a millions-of-years-old species, in a matter of years... we absolutely could wreck this planet in a matter of days, if we wanted to...

[exalted512]

on the sun - it is true that there are variations in our orbit, and in the sun's output, but these are reasonably well-understood, and their effect has been taken into account, and it's not enough to cause the rise we've seen. a tidbit - we know the sun operates on a roughly 11-year cycle. the last max was in 2000 (with an echo in 2002), which puts us exactly in the doldrums of the sun's cycle... we should be at the coolest of the past 11 years, but we're not...

I'm sorry, but even with our technology today, theres no way anyone or any computer can take in all the variables and sum up to one simple conclusion.

Hell, our weather forecaster cant even tell if its going to rain in 4 days, how in the hell are they supposed to know that we should be decreasing in temperature as an entire planet
-Cody

[bobman1235]

they did, actually - popular science took four leading climate scientists, and they said that yes, it was overdone, and the timescale was too short, but if you consider it over months instead of weeks, they said it absolutely could happen. one guy compared it to a person slowly pressing on a lightswitch - nothing happens until he puts too much pressure on, then -click- and it all goes downhill...

none of them could say if it would happen in 1 year or 100, but they unanimously agreed that it will, eventually...


I'm trying not to get involved in the rest of this argument that will go nowhere, but that movie was a joke by anyone with half a brain, let alone real scientists. I don' tknow what grade school they took your "scientists" out of, but the physics alone (http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/dayAft.htm) are enough to make it unwatchably stupid and unrealistic. Last I checked, that was science.

[MacLeod]

Space.com (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html)
Enterprisemission.com (http://www.enterprisemission.com/warming.htm)
Space.com (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_snow_011206-1.html)
The Speculist.com (http://www.blog.speculist.com/archives/000145.html)

Those are some links on Mars warming.

And no, greenhouse gasses being spread around the atmosphere will WARM the earth. Greenhouse gasses trap the suns radiation inside the atmosphere but dont stop them from coming in. This is what has happened on Venus. The atmosphere is so thick that once the radiation is in, it cant eascape so it stays inside and continues to heat up as the radiation builds. That is why Venus is the hottest planet in the solar system at over 900 degrees, hotter even than Mercury which is closer to the sun!


We didnt kill the do-dos. Did you know that 98% of all the species that ever lived on the earth are extinct? Where did they all go? We certainly didnt kill them. Thats evolution. Species that cant cut it go extinct, its the way of things.

Think about this, go to Colorado and look at Pikes Peak. 14,000 ft. Now it was formed by the earths continental plates slamming into each other and forcing the rock up and form Pikes Peak. Now ask yourself, what made it stop? Know what, it hasnt stopped! Its still going on, only too slow for us to realize it. Again, the earth has been around for 4 billion years, weve been around a few thousand. That is such a tiny and insignifigant amount of time. The earth is so much more massive and complex than we can hardly comprehend and to think that we can destroy it or severly alter it by driving SUV's or using aerosol hair sprays is just not logical! To quote Pai Me, "compared to me, youre as helpless as a worm fighting an eagle!"

[exalted512]

We didnt kill the do-dos. Did you know that 98% of all the species that ever lived on the earth are extinct? Where did they all go? We certainly didnt kill them. Thats evolution. Species that cant cut it go extinct, its the way of things.

insert hoping the liberals go extinct joke here
-Cody

[1996blackmax]

Dude, you know that on the oceans floor there are geysers of oil spewing into the ocean up from the earths crust at the rated of millions of gallons a day? This has been going on for eons. Notice that there arent any pools of oil on top of the ocean and its still blue?

This planet has been here for BILLIONS of years and bigger than most people can comprehend. We couldnt change the climate or destroy the oceans or atmosphere if we wanted to.


No lessons needed here Mac, I actually have read a little bit in my time. I am not as ignorant as you may think ;).

[MacLeod]

Well that was intended for Neo. He's kind of a hippy so you have to take it slow with him otherwise youll lose him. :p

[1996blackmax]

Well that was intended for Neo. He's kind of a hippy so you have to take it slow with him otherwise youll lose him. :p


Wow
:eek:

:D

Made me laugh out loud again!

[neomagus00]

Well that was intended for Neo. He's kind of a hippy so you have to take it slow with him otherwise youll lose him. :p
okay, even i thought that was funny :p

from the journal Discovery, this (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n1_v15/ai_14902729) article describes the major eruption of a volcano in 1993, which did indeed lower the temperature over most of the earth

this (http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/newsroom/pressreleases/20031208a.html) article from NASA agrees with the mars warming, but reasons that we don't know enough to figure out why... perhaps it's just coming out of an ice age, who knows... in any case, it does not necessarily relate to our problem... i didn't read 'enterprisemission.com' or 'thespeculist.com', those are an enthusiast site and a blog, respectively... gotta have good sources to have a good argument :p

cody - you are very correct, we cannot predict everything, but we most certainly have the ability to predict large-scale events, to a degree... read that volcano article, it describes exactly what we do have the capability to predict, and to what degree... weather is different, because the distances and times are so much smaller (one county compared to one country, and one day compared to one decade)

mac - true, we didn't kill 98% of the species out there, that was an example to show that we can destroy pretty much anything we want, except roaches...

pikes peak - i'm not entirely sure what your point is, perhaps you could expound a bit?

bobman1235 - i agree with you that this will not go anywhere, but i stopped reading that article after a few paragraphs... i'd ripped too many holes in it by then to bother continuing... i'd be glad to read anything else you might care to link to, though, but know that you're talking to a physics guy, so i demand proof and reliability insofar as you can prove anything reliably in climatology... i can tell you what i thought of in in more detail if you like, so i can show you i'm not just pulling this denial out of my arse, but i didn't want to type it all out if i didn't have to :p

and i'm minorly offended that blackmax equated my point of view with ignorance, if that matters to anyone :rolleyes:... those of you that know me know that me getting offended is rather rare...

[PoweredByDodge]

... i love how ill informed persons, fearing change, or even fearing their own demise, believe they can deny a problem away.

sorry, that only works with illegitimate children.

[98thumpin]

i dont like it when cops give u trouble about a damned sticker woopded do dont they have criminals to capture

[MacLeod]

The Pikes Peak analogy was meant to show just how A) the earth moves around in terms of millions of years. A change in something over 20 years is so miniscual as to not even matter and B) to show how helpless we are in the face of Mother Nature.

Whatchu talking about Vinny? We're not denying a problem away we're just not jumping on the bandwagon that "Oh my God, the earths temperature has climbed 2 degrees, it must be because mankind is destroying the earth!" That is a totally ridiculous statement. We inhabit 11% of the earth's surface and have only been industrialized for 100 years but yet we've managed to completely screw up the earths atmosphere that has survived billions of years of world wide fires, world wide floods, world wide volcanic eruptions, world wide bombardment from asteroids and comets, solar flare eruptions, magnetic reversal of the poles, constant bombardment of cosmic radiation with no problem but your Dodge Ram has finished it off? Bull manure!

[1996blackmax]

and i'm minorly offended that blackmax equated my point of view with ignorance, if that matters to anyone :rolleyes:... those of you that know me know that me getting offended is rather rare...

My comments were geared towards Mac, not you neo. Deep breath ;) . I was just stating that I am not as ingnorant as Mac probably thought I was.

[MacLeod]

See, I told you. Hippies. Theyre awfully touchy. :D

[98thumpin]

yes they are but may i ask how this convo got turned into a debate on earth health

[MacLeod]

You must be new here. We here at Club Polk pride ourselves on being the Grand Champions of thread derails! I dare say, we're the best on the internet at it!

[PoweredByDodge]

the earth was also not always inhabitable to human beings...

point is -- yes, by default, the earth will recover... but in order to do so, it will probably become so polluted that we all drop over dead... at which time, it'll start a billion year long process of rebirth.

and actually - i'm not bitching about cars so much as nuclear power plants, coal power plants, and dirty industry.

[MacLeod]

Nuclear power is one of the most effecient and cleanest sources of energy we have! We need more of em!

[neomagus00]

blackmax - okay, we're cool :p

mac - all those volcanic eruptions, magnetic reversals, etc. you speak of... what do you think they did? that's right, they caused the mass extinctions we've seen in the fossil records... this is the next one... and pbd's got it, if we push it too far and hit the edge, the earth will recover, in millions of years, but will we still be here, and will it be the earth we remember? and don't say that's just evolution, because evolution doesn't include your Ram...

you did get one thing right, we are helpless in the face of nature, but it doesn't work the other way around... and the earth doesn't necessarily operate over millions of years... consider that a volcano eruption can affect the entire earth's climate beginning in a matter of weeks... granted, the effect is gone in a matter of years, but it's a matter of what you consider a 'permanent' or 'considerable' effect...

and yay nuclear power! we agree on something!

[PoweredByDodge]

nuclear power is very efficient and clean --- until you have to figure out where to dump the waste.

[98thumpin]

im not to new but i guess im new enough

[MacLeod]

mac - all those volcanic eruptions, magnetic reversals, etc. you speak of... what do you think they did? that's right, they caused the mass extinctions we've seen in the fossil records... this is the next one... and pbd's got it, if we push it too far and hit the edge, the earth will recover, in millions of years, but will we still be here, and will it be the earth we remember? and don't say that's just evolution, because evolution doesn't include your Ram...

you did get one thing right, we are helpless in the face of nature, but it doesn't work the other way around... and the earth doesn't necessarily operate over millions of years... consider that a volcano eruption can affect the entire earth's climate beginning in a matter of weeks... granted, the effect is gone in a matter of years, but it's a matter of what you consider a 'permanent' or 'considerable' effect...



First off, the volcanic eruptions do cool the earth by blowing debris into the atmosphere and that blocks the sun light, but I was talking about all the greenhouse gasses that are released by an eruption. The very same gases that are supposedly changing the climate right now due to our SUV's.

Oh my freaking God. So you seriously think we're heading for a mass extinction from global warming? C'mon man! The constant bombardment of radiation from space and the sun, the constant volcanic eruptions, the fissures leaking methane gas into the air and the oil pouring into the ocean from the sea floor are natural and part of evolution. The tiny little amounts of crap we put in the air is so little its not funny. I go back to my "trying to change to color of the ocean with a dropper of food coloring."

And a volcanic eruption can effect the climate due to the debris blown into the atmosphere and its gone in a matter of days not years.

Like you said, we are helpless in the face of mother nature. We can effect small, localized changes in the earth but we couldnt create a mountain if we wanted to, we couldnt create a volcano if we wanted to, we couldnt destroy the ozone layer if we wanted to.

I dont understand why the climate alarmists see the climate changing over the last few years and automatically assume its the beginning of a mass extinction. The earth has been around for 4 billion years. Do you really think its been at the same temperature the entire time? The earth, atmosphere, sun, radiation, orbit and a billion other things are constantly changing.

Just remember, the 70's were all about global cooling because the temperature had been dropping over the last several years. We cant predict the weather more than 3 days in advance. So how are we supposed to know that we'll all be extinct because of SUV's in the future?

[98thumpin]

well i got my stupid inspection sticker this morning 15 dollers for a damn sticker.

[1996blackmax]

A few years back someone stole my sticker. I went down to the DMV, showed them my registration, and still had to pay $10 dollars to get one. Not cool at all!