sr6500 vs DSL iridium

[jabcon]

Just bought a new truck I will installing a new system to replace the factory sounds. I have narrowd my search down to thease two. sr6500 in front with the same in the back and a 10" polk sr sub or dsl iriduim 6.3 in front with 6.2 in back and a iriduim 10" sub. Amps will be either sr polk or dsl ultimates.
the truck is a 2006 Dodge ram quad cab. Any opinions or sugestions much appreciated. By the way my last two trucks had polk speakers straight to the receiver. By the way I like blues and old rock and I spend about 4 to 6 hours a day in the Dodge.

John

[1996blackmax]

So Polk is coming out with some SR amps?

[audiobliss]

:confused: How do you get anything about amps out of that? :confused:

[brettw22]

:confused: How do you get anything about amps out of that? :confused:From this....

Amps will be either sr polk or dsl ultimates.

[audiobliss]

Oh, lol. I completely overlooked that. Well, I think it'd be awesome if Polk comes out with an SR series of amps, but if he knows they are, he must have one good source!

[1zach4]

i'm not trying to sell anything, but honestly sr6500's are hard to beat, and if the rest of the Signature Reference series from polk is even remotely on the same level then I would say stick with them.

[jabcon]

I herd this from a buddy who went to the ces

john

[1zach4]

sent you a pm jabcon

[exalted512]

The 6.3s are better than the SRs IMO, but not by much. I like the smoothness of the Polk tweeters but i like the crispness and detail of the Iridiums better. Midrange is a big plus for the iridiums, but they also have a seperate midrange driver whereas the Polks dont, two different leagues. Its hard to compare a 3-way set to a 2-way set.

DLS' ultimate amps are pure SQ all the way, theyre beautiful amps.
-Cody

[1996blackmax]

A 3-way setup does sound sweet.

[jabcon]

Cody I am kind of leaning towards the dsl's first because I agree with you the sound seems a little more natural and full, second my vender has them about 150 less per pair than the Polks. The Dsl amps seem to be at a very fair price too.

John

[audiobliss]

I hate to say it, but it sounds like I'd be goin' with the DSLs, too. Let us know what you decide and how it turns out!

[jabcon]

The price I am working with from my vender is around 2200 for A3 amp an A5 amp pair of 6.3's pair of 6.2's and an ultimate iriduim 10" sub. haven't picked a head unit yet still reading.

John

[audiobliss]

I'd definitely go wth Eclipse for the head unit.

[exalted512]

If you dont mind, what are you paying for the DLS equipment? I know someone who might still have some DLS amps for sale, slightly used, but in perfect condition. If youre interested let me know and I'll ask him if he still has em.
-Cody

[bknauss]

No plans for SR amps at the moment. Whoever was at CES and got info about SR amps is full of it... there were no amps other than the Momos on display.

But if you guys want SR amps... any new amps for that matter of any price point... make a ruckus. Sometimes you guys make enough noise to make stuff go on here.

[Thom]

Keep in mind that three way system will be harder to set- up then a two way. Many years ago we had a two way set up in my wife's Civic and the judges always loved it. When we switched to three way the next year (against the advice of the guy who tuned the car for us), it was never quite the same. Some things were improved (midbass), but overall it wasn't quite as strong. And we were running all active. Crossover points make all the difference, so a nice active crossover will help. I've never been terribly impressed with three way sets running off their passive crossover (but mainly beacause the mid bass in the doors plays up to 350 Hz or so). I've never heard the DLS, so I can't speak for those. If you could fit all three speakers in the kicks that'd be cool, but not many guys have done it.


Or go three way with SR if you're up for the extra work. We won't offer a three way set with passive, but you can purchase a 5250 set and buy 6500 drivers for midbass.

[audiobliss]

Or go three way with SR if you're up for the extra work. We won't offer a three way set with passive, but you can purchase a 5250 set and buy 6500 drivers for midbass.
Oooh. I think Mac has yet another project heading his way!

Go for it, Mac! :D

[Josh]

He would just have to purchase the 5.25 drivers.

[audiobliss]

Even fewer reasons not to do it! :D

That seriously would be an interesting install to 'watch' (online) someone do. I wonder if Mac has enough room to really use a 3way system.

[MacLeod]

Im in agreement with Thom in that I favor 2 way systems. Im a big believer that the fewer drivers the better. Im sure if they were all tuned precisely, it would outperform a 2 way but its not an easy task to get it tuned right.

As for running the SR's 3 way, I could pull that off next year when I move up to modified. Im planning on putting mids in the kicks so I could leave my 6.5's in the doors.

Something to consider tho, in MECA's RTA competitions (stick a mic in the drivers seat and play white noise and you have 2 minutes to adjust your controls to get not only the flattest but most symetrical curve) the only guys that ever beat me are the dudes with 30 band EQ's or laptops (no joke, one dude at nationals had a laptop and scored nearly perfect!) and I was hanging with them with only a bass and treble control. This isnt due to my master skills as a tuner but rather the superb performance of the SR's and the fact that they have the best, most neutral and flattest curve out there, even inside a car! I know this is a Polk forum and Im a diehard Polkster but when I say the SR's are the best speakers on the market I believe I can prove it. Ive earned quite a bit of respect in our local competition scene for them and have even had one or two people come up and ask "I heard youve got the new Polks, can I hear them" and they always seem to be impressed, and Im sure as more and more people hear them their reputation will continue to grow.

[1996blackmax]

It's true that 3-ways are harder to tune, but once you get them going...... very nice :D.

[jabcon]

Whow! what feed back. the system I am going to try assemble is the tweeter at the pocket next to the side mirrors at the top of the front doors. then the 3.5 dome mid would be at the windsheild speaker location raised and facing back, next the 6.5 would be in the door panel. finaly the 10" would be in a custom made inclusure inside the middle front seat. the back would have a tweeter at the rear pillar with the 6.5 in the rear door panel. thanks for the offer on the used equiptment but I have a pretty decent line on new and I don't like buying used electronics.

John

[exalted512]

As far as 3-way systems versus 2-way systems, it is my firm belief, especially in a truck, a 3-way system will always be best. Theres simply too much room with so big spaces between speakers. I agree, it is much harder to get it to sound right, it took me 2 days to get my Iridium 6.3s in my truck to get to where I found the 'right' places.

I have the SRs in my girlfriends car. Yeah, thats right, I own both the speakers youre asking about, dls in my truck, SRs in my girlfriends car. Anyway, the SRs are in the stock locations in her civic and have excellent staging, not so great imaging.

I would get the Iridiums, but the SRs are not a slouch at all. They are among the best on the market right now.
-Cody

[1zach4]

i'll have the sr's in my car soon so i'll let you know how I feel they compare @ that time...i've heard both, but i'm not going to give my full opinion until i've been able to play around and tune my own sr's

[deepinya]

Gave up on selling em huh zach? You may be glad you did!

[Thom]

Whow! what feed back. the system I am going to try assemble is the tweeter at the pocket next to the side mirrors at the top of the front doors. then the 3.5 dome mid would be at the windsheild speaker location raised and facing back, next the 6.5 would be in the door panel.
John

With the 3" in the dash I would think the tweeter would be best next to it, like in the a- pillars aiming at each other.

[MacLeod]

With the 3" in the dash I would think the tweeter would be best next to it, like in the a- pillars aiming at each other.

x2!

The tweeter is very important in stage perception and having them in front of the mids could cause some strange things.

Sticking the tweets in the A pillars is the best way to go. Thatll not only raise your stage more but also increase the depth. I have mine in the A pillars and firing at the middle of the windshield and that works well for me. It has a few issues with focus but deepens the stage a good bit.

[1996blackmax]

Did you have to attenuate the tweeters a good amount due to the reflections off of the windshield?

[1zach4]

Gave up on selling em huh zach? You may be glad you did!

Yeah I gave up on it, i'll now have sr6500's in the front and mmc650's in the back with an eclipse XA4000 running them all

[audiobliss]

^^ Hey, I've had worse problems! :p

[MacLeod]

Did you have to attenuate the tweeters a good amount due to the reflections off of the windshield?

Suprisingly no! The gains on my tweeters are almost as high as the mids. Actually Ive noticed very little harshness.

[1996blackmax]

You my friend, have a very forgiving windshield :D.

[jabcon]

Question, many have said that the tweeter should be down low with the mid base while others have said that I should have the tweeter mounted high for better sound stage? If I mount the tweeter on the A pillar and point it towards the mid range mounted on the dash, will I not have issues with reflected sound blurring the tweeter output? In other words shouldn't I face the tweeter towards me for less reflected sound? The mid range I intend on canting back to face me instead of mounting it straight up. Is this best?
The head unit I am looking at is the Nakamichi CD-700II, I like that it is simple with real good specs, I don't like a lot of complications to deal with while driving. How do you think this unit would work with the above speakers and amps?

[MacLeod]

Ideally, for pure SQ purposes, the tweeter works best mounted close to the midrange but doing so usually lowers your stage. Mounting the tweeters up high is a trade off. You lose a smidge in SQ but you gain quite a lot of stage height. Most people, me included, consider this a good trade off.

And I dont think Im the only one with a forgiving windshield. Kirk Proffit has the best sounding system Ive ever heard and has his firing directly up into the windshield.

Here is a post from another forum by super master SQ genius Mark Eldridge.

If the tweeters, or any other speaker is pointed directly at the windshield, you will end up with severe comb filtering in the signal causing freuency response problems that you can not fix with an EQ. You will likely also have stability problems in the imaging and staging areas also.

What happens is that you hear the direct sound from the speaker first, and a very short time later, the reflected sound, which in this case is probably louder than the direct sound. (The direct sound is 90 degrees off axis from the speaker, and the reflected sound is from the directly on-axis point from in front of the speaker.) This causes a very incoherent wave front, and will degrade the sound quality every time.

Try it at home. Turn on only one channel of your home system, and turn the speaker pointing 90 degrees off from where you sit when you listen. Get familiar with how it sounds like this for a few minutes. Then have someone move a board or some reflective surface from behind the speaker so that it simulates a windshield causing a reflection. It will need to be in front of the speaker's on-axis direction at a 45 degree angle to cause the reflection towards you. You can do this with a large board to simulate having the mid and tweeter on the dash top, or with a smaller board to show only the tweeters response changes.

It will open your ears to one of the biggest acoustical problems we face in car audio.

Higher frequency drivers are easier to control the dispersion pattern on, because the wave lengths are shorter as the frequency increases. Absorptive materials can help tremendously, and comb filtering effects are less noticable to our ears when the initial offending frequency is high enough.

So, yes, a set of tweeters crosed over really high, above 8 kHz or so can be used, with some significant attention paid to the dispersion pattern, and ensuring that reflections are directed into absorptive materials, or at least away from your ears. These tweeters however, in general, should not be used as the primary source for high frequency information. The primary tweeter should still be mounted close to the midrange if at all possible. The tweeter up top can help, but can not fix everything related to staging and imaging issues. Also, be aware that having two tweeters playing the same frequencies, the main tweeter next to the mid, and the secondary one up high, will have some comb filtering effects on the high frequencies, and depending on how low the upper one is crossed over, and the time arrival from each tweeter at your ears, will determine how noticeable it is, and if it will be a good or not so good set up.

[neomagus00]

hmm... to translate that into normal english, for those that got a little confused (like me, the first read-through):

"the direct sound and the reflected sound from a tweeter firing into the windshield interfere with each other in the same way that the passenger and driver's side tweeters interfere with each other. putting your main tweets in the kicks and a set of supertweeters in the dash still has this problem, but the problem with the supertweets is less noticeable, and the overall effect can be beneficial."

[Thom]

Question, many have said that the tweeter should be down low with the mid base while others have said that I should have the tweeter mounted high for better sound stage?

If you use a mid in the dash keep the tweeter close to that, not the midbass. You can aim them more towards you (away from the glass) if you like but then you're more likely to hear the near side tweeter and not the other one. If you aim them at each other the tonal accuracy might suffer but the stage will greatly improve. Some cars even fire tweeters forward (into the windshield) and it works. In general reflections are bad but it's impossible to avoid them completely in a car. So figure out what's most important before mounting everything permanently.

[jabcon]

Another question if I use the Nakamichi CD-700II as my head unit can I plug it directly in to the amps? I have seen on other sights that had the same unit but it was connected to a line conditioner and then into an equalizer crossover. Because Nakamichi already has built in crossover system do I really need this additional unit? Also what is the purpose of a line conditioner? Additionally on site said I would need a frequency modulator because Nakamichi CD-700II was set for the European radio spectrum, maybe that was just the unit he was selling?

Many questions
John

[MacLeod]

Line Drivers bump up the voltage of the input signal. The higher the input voltage, the less likely it is to have noise induced.

Im pretty sure you dont need anything. You should just be able to run straight from the CD players outputs to the amp. Im not familiar with Naks tho so I may be wrong. Best bet would be to email Nak and ask them directly.

[1996blackmax]

8 volts baby :D!

[MacLeod]

Or you can get an in dash Audiocontrol EQ with a built in 13 volt line driver!

Audiocontrol just rules! I cant wait to save up enough money to get their DQS equalizer! Dont really know where I could mount it. I thought of getting an in dash unit but cant find any with 6 channel inputs. Since I bi-amp and use time alignment on all 4 front channels I have to have 6 inputs. Ugh.

[1996blackmax]

8 volts is more than enough for me, especially since it was included with the HU.

I thought that you were goind to look into the Rockford processor. That thing looks like it would be very nice.

[MacLeod]

Eh, not sold on it. For that money I could have the Audiocontrol unit and, as stated, Audiocontrol simply rules.

[exalted512]

yea, i mean the rockford unit only has 153 bands of equalization:rolleyes:
-Cody

[1996blackmax]

Did they fix their little noise issues (Audiocontrol)? I had read that they had some kind of internal grounding issues a while back.

[MacLeod]

yea, i mean the rockford unit only has 153 bands of equalization:rolleyes:
-Cody


Yeah, for $700. For $350 I can get 192 from the Audiocontrol DQS! So http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-022.gif

Still the 360.1 does look interesting at a $400 MSRP which I guess would mean it would sale for about $300 maybe? Do you have to have a laptop to use it or does it come with a remote you can use from the drivers seat?

[exalted512]

360.2 does much more than the dqs, and much more user friendly.

Theres no wires, no laptop. You use a blue tooth palm pilot.
-Cody

[CrBoy]

Yeah, for $700. For $350 I can get 192 from the Audiocontrol DQS! So http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-022.gif

ROFL :D :D

[neomagus00]

cody - you want to do a feature comparision for us, show us what the 360 does that the dqs doesn't (or what it does better)?

mac - you could do the same for the dqs... it'd be interesting to see the numbers behind both points of view

[MacLeod]

Dont have to, Audiocontrol already wrote one up for me! ;)


The DQS is a digital car audio processor that combines three high performance digital car audio equalizers in one compact chassis. The six inputs and outputs on the DQS make it ideal for surround sound car theater systems or when using source units with multiple outputs. Even factory installed systems will benefit from the DQS.

Each channel of the DQS digital car audio equalizer offers thirty bands of one-third octave EQ plus two fully-adjustable parametric equalizers for a total of 192 bands of car audio equalization. All of these filters are controlled in the digital domain for maximum performance and sound quality. Once you have determined your EQ settings, you can store them in one of eight user-programmable memories. This allows you to recall all of the EQ and crossover settings with a simple push of a button.

Key Features
Six Input and Output Channels

Ideal for Car Theater Applications
Thirty Graphic Equalization Controls per Channel
Two Fully Adjustable Parametric Equalization Controls per Channel
Individual Level Controls
24 bit Digital Audio Processing
8 User-Programmable Memory Settings

Like other digital car audio processors from AudioControl, the DQS is powered by a state-of-the-art audio 24-bit DSP (digital signal processor) specially designed for performance car audio systems. In addition, all AudioControl digital car audio processors are designed and manufactured at our factory, located in the rainforest of the Pacific Northwest. The coffee is warm and the weather is cold!

[exalted512]

Heres a picture of its interface:
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/2069/3sixtyscreenshot4tj.jpg

24bit D/A

Music sensing remote turn-on

Programable Inputs
-2 to 6 channel inputs
-Up to 20v RMS input
-Channel Summing
-can accept both RCA and speaker level inputs at same time
-Signal presence and Clip indicators

Line Driver/High volt outputs
-'conservatively rated' at 5v RMS

Programable (knob) controller
-master volume/sub level
-Aux input toggle

Wireless (PDA) control interface
-Real-time control
-Your Palm OS (5.0 or better) PDA w/ Bluetooth required

EQ
-Auto Normalization with visual verification of frequency response
-Front L&R channels: 31 bands each
-Rear & Center channels: 27 bands each
-Subwoofer channel: 10 band
-Aux Input with it's own 31 band EQ
-Boost or cut +/- 10dB

X-over
-50Hz to 10kHz
-62 steps on ISO 1/3 Oct centers
-selectable 12/24dB per Octave slope
-HP/LP/BP/AP (50-200Hz LP filter on sub)
-Independent filter control for all channels
-Independent level control for all channels
-Independent muting control for all channels

Adjustable sub-sonic filter
-20 to 35Hz
-selectable 12/24dB per Octave slope
-1Hz steps

Time Alignment
-10' total adjustment
-6" increments

I must admit $350 is a damn good price that unit. Whered you find that price at? Even on ebay it they were listed at $390.

I guarantee youll be able to get the 360 for under $500.

It also offers time alignment. You also dont have to leave the drivers seat to adjust it. The interface is much more user friendly and is all controlled via palm pilot. It only needs one RCA input and you can store as many settings as you want granted your palm pilot has the ability to store it. Even then, you can just transfer it to your computer.

It also has a crossover built in, DQS doesnt. Plus, the dqs is parametric, graphic, IMO, is much better, which is what the 360.2 has. Itll hit every frequnecy whereas the DQS is more comparable to the "low/mid/high" settings you see on midgrade radios.

Thats why I'd take the 360 over the dqs anyday. Ive researched both of these a lot b/c both have the basic thing i wanted, a lot of equalization for my front stage. But IMO, the 360.2 does a better job and does more.
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Well first off, I dont have a palm pilot. The Audiocontrol has a remote that can be used from the drivers seat.

As for the price, I was just taking a guess from some of the prices Id seen online. I see that Ebay is $380 so maybe you could get them for $400 authorized.

Im sure there both great units but the extreme price for the RF plus the requirement of having to have a palm pilot and the 423,400 features that Id never use are what leads me to the Audiocontrol. Its just an EQ. Thats all I want.

[neomagus00]

the dqs does actually have graphic AND parametric equalisation, and is more extensive than the 360.2... so, the dqs has a better EQ, though i grant that it has only 7 bands in the sub-100 Hz range (should you use channels 5 and 6 for a sub, as in a 3-way system)... the 360.2 would be better if you needed the whole shebang in one package, or if you needed to have a visual of what you're tuning... you do have to factor in the cost of a PDA, though...

[Vestax]

Another outboard processor that has an ample amount of control is Alpine's H701. With the controller interface, it can be had for $600 and can be controlled from the driver's seat. It will allow for a 4 way, 3-way front stage bi-amping along with your choice of individual and independent 31 band for graphic equalization or 7 band parametric eq. It'll do both time alignment and phasing controls as well as a 5.1 set up if you ever decide to do mobile video. It'll be as close as you can get to either Alpine F1 status H900 or Pioneer's P9 combo.

[exalted512]

thats also an excellent choice, a friend of mine is going with that in his car. But at $150 for the 360º, I cant beat it :D
-Cody

[98thumpin]

how do i get the dqs cause i want one in my car also is it something any stereo shop can install?

[neomagus00]

installation is very easy, yes... it's the hours and hours of tuning that's the tough part... go to audiocontrol.com, find a dealer, and go there... some websites might sell it, too, dunno (try carstereoonline, acaraudio, sounddomain)...

[MacLeod]

I cant find them anywhere online except for Ebay. They do have local shops tho, as one of mine carries them.

If you cant find a local shop, try giving them a call. Im sure they could steer you in the right direction.

[1996blackmax]

Vestax has brought up a very good example of another processing unit that has a lot of flexibility.

[98thumpin]

what are line drivers good for? and also im just going to have four speakers two amps and a sub, would a line driver or any of that help, ie eq, OverDrive Car Audio Line Driver,

[98thumpin]

The Epicenter Bass Maximizer for the bass, what should i be considering, i want to be able to control everything also i want the cool factor too.

[jabcon]

I may be revising my amp selection; I was thinking that the A-7 for the front would be better than the A-3. Because the 6.3's have two crossovers, one for the mid range and one for the mid base and tweeter combo would it be better for each to have its own amp output? Thus the A-7 in front sixty watts to drive each of the front units with a hundred watts for the 10 inch sub and the back would have the A-2 for the 6.2's Also I am looking at the Pioneer DEX-P9, Pioneer DEQP9 combo for the head unit. Any comments?
Has any bought from woofersect.com what was your experience?

John

[MacLeod]

what are line drivers good for? and also im just going to have four speakers two amps and a sub, would a line driver or any of that help, ie eq, OverDrive Car Audio Line Driver,


A line driver amplifies the output signal of your head unit to the amps. This makes them less likely to pick up any noise. I wouldnt worry about getting one.

I would wait and get your system put together first then worry about EQ's and processors. You can really do a lot with a good head unit. 30 band EQ's and such should come into play once youve got your stuff installed and set up to where it sounds good and you just want to do a little fine tuning.

[1996blackmax]

I believe an EQ is a very valuable tool in a car. You have surfaces that will reflect sound, making certain frequencies sound harsh, as well as some that will absorb sound. The EQ will make music in your car alot more enjoyable to the ears.

[1996blackmax]

Also I am looking at the Pioneer DEX-P9, Pioneer DEQP9 combo for the head unit. Any comments?


That is one sweet SQ setup. If you could get that, jump all over it.

[jabcon]

yes but would the combination work as I listed them? Or would the a5 a3 amp combination work better? How about comparing the nakamichi hu to the pioneer p9?

John

[1996blackmax]

I dont' see why not, unless I am missing something.

The amp combination will depend on how much tweaking you want to do with the amps themselves. The A7 looks like it would work nicely, and still give you a good amount of power.

As far as the HU's, I would go with the one that fits your particular system best. Meaning the one that has the features that you want/need in your system. I personally would opt for the Pioneer unit beacause of the tuning capabilites, but that's me.