Whatcha got.... [Archive]

raycomics

05-20-2002, 07:35 PM

Ok, I am an old guy here. How old? Well the term "Vintage Equipment" to me is the stuff I lusted after growing up that I could not afford! Now that I am in my "second childhood" her goes:

Speakers: Altec Model 14 (12" Woofs - 1" Mantaray Horn Loaded Tweets)

Power/Preamps: Adcom GFA 555 (200wpc)
Adcom GTP 400 (Pre)

Source: Yamaha CDC-500 Natural Sound CD Player w/Coaxial
Digital Output

Yamaha KX-W232 Natural Sound Double Cassete Deck

Sharp RP117 - Both Sides Front Loading Stereo
Turntable

Add-Ons: Micromega Duo.BS2. Digital to Analog Converter (256x Oversampling)

All SpeakerCable/Interconnects from Frank Dai @ SignalCables

TroyD

05-20-2002, 07:57 PM

Ray,

What do you think of Frank Dai's speaker cable?.....I am very impressed with his interconnects.

BDT

raycomics

05-20-2002, 08:31 PM

Hey Troy -

I am so impressed with Franks Cables, that I am in the process of Changing all of my HT Cable Setup! I noticed an immediate improvement in the Mid Bass and Treble Sections. More precise mids and highs as compared with MonsterCable, at a much lower Price Point. And hey, they ain't even broken in yet!

Frank recommends at least 20 hours burn-in, and then the soundstage will really open up. Well, Well, Well worth the money!

Can you tell I Like em?

TroyD

05-20-2002, 09:15 PM

I didn't really do a before/after burn it test to be honest. I left them on overnight/day while at work......I can see improvements over the standard AR cables I was using. Easily, one of the great bargains out there and the cool factor is huge as well.

Troy (of the Big Dumb Dions)

juice21

05-20-2002, 09:45 PM

i will also stand behind frank's cables. i am currently upgrading all my cables to signal cable.

as for the 2-channel set-up, it is in the pricing and auditioning stage (hey, i'm an HT guy)....

raycomics

05-20-2002, 09:57 PM

Don't know if you R a "Vintage" Guy, But I am here to tell ya that you can get really Hi-End Stuff (in its day) for pennies on tha dollar now on Ebay,

If you R of the adventurous sort, and know what you are looking 4, Flea Markets, Yard Sales, and Thrift Stores also have great bargains if you like looking for buried treasures.

Just a thought.

juice21

05-20-2002, 10:12 PM

good idea (i could probably get more bang for my buck), but i think i am going to try to go 'entry level' with new products(thinking NAD, AMC, cambridge audio, and the like), unless i run into a heluva deal on some used gear of course....

stubby

05-20-2002, 10:15 PM

CD players
Yamaha CDC815, Rotel 855

Preamp
Adcom GTP 450

D/A Converter
AA DDE v1.0

Amplifiers
1 Pair of Carver M1.0t's Bridged mono for 1,000 watts

Speakers
Polk SDA SRS 1.2TL

Stubby

RuSsMaN

05-21-2002, 09:40 AM

2ch rig as of right now....

Carver m400a
Nad 1130 Pre
ADC 16/2r Cd
Signal Cable interconn's
10awg cord
KEF Cresta 2's
2 pair (stacked) Infinity Qb

Cheers,
Russ

tonyv1

05-21-2002, 03:46 PM

My 2 channel rig:
Magnepan MG12
Parasound HCA 1500A Amp
Anthem PRE 2L Special Edition Tube Preamp
Rotel RCD 951
MSB Tech DAC Link III
Nakamichi DR2
Denon DP2000 w/ ADC Black Widow Tonearm
Grado Prestige Silver cartridge
Harmonic Tech Pro Silway MkII interconnects
Canare Digital Coaxial cable
XLO Ultra 6 speaker cables

RuSsMaN

05-21-2002, 03:51 PM

Tube pre, Maggies, Denon turntable....

Yep, I'm jealous, I bet you melt in your chair....

Cheers,
Russ

TroyD

05-21-2002, 04:20 PM

Jealousy is a rather mild term.....

Troy (of the Big Dumb Dions)

xfontanax

05-21-2002, 04:32 PM

harman Kardon hk3370
denon dcd-1560 cd player
polk lsi9
monster ref 2 interconects
moster Z1 speaker wire

yes, modest, but very clean sounding

goingganzo

05-22-2002, 02:22 AM

i would buld a 2 chanel setup but i dont listen to music that much in my house just in my car i usto drive 3 hours a day so i got some good speakers for my car but i am not one of thoes people that make your teeth ratel in your car with my bass i went with 3 8 inch subs for responce and tightness but i wish i had a 2 chanel setup

nascarmann

05-23-2002, 12:01 PM

I want a 2 channel rig?:mad: But when I listen to music I turn the effects off of the receiver and listen to the front speakers only!

Yamaha CDC-665
Yamaha DV-C6280
Yamaha RX-V800 (Tuner,Pre,DAC's)
Yamaha M-85 amp
Polk SDA-1C's

This is not dedicated 2 channel rig, but it works as one for me? :mad:

TroyD

05-23-2002, 01:14 PM

I wonder how many do have a dedicated 2ch rig though......Space is obviously at a premium in most homes. I am just unfortunate in the fact that I don't have children so there are a couple spare rooms that allow me the space. If we are lucky enough to have kids, I'm out a mancave......

BDT

raycomics

05-23-2002, 05:20 PM

I have a big (to me, as I was a Row Home((I think the youngsters call it a Town Home)) Kid) Bedroom that is 12x17, so the Altec 14s fit just fine. I can hear the music all over the house. Living Room is the dedicated HT Room.

SDA SRS 1.2

06-03-2002, 09:01 PM

For a late 80's system, it still sounds pretty good! (See signature)

nascarmann

06-03-2002, 10:01 PM

I am nothing but envious? But, I have a good chance of getting a set of SDA-SRS soon? My stubberness is the only reason that I haven't bought a pair of SDA-SRS? tl's is a prob?

KING WANNABE of the kingdom of wannabes!

TroyD

06-04-2002, 08:18 AM

Barnwell, SC?

That's not too far from me.......Man, lock your door at night or ima get my SDA demo on in your house!

Troy

rskarvan

06-04-2002, 09:11 AM

2-channel:
Polk SRS SDA 3.1TL's
Krell KAV250a Amp
Krell KAV250p Pre-amp
Denon DVD3300 DVD-A
-------------
Home Theatre:
Denon 3801
Monitor 10 series 2
CS400i
PSW650
RT800i (side surrounds)
RT25i (rear surrounds)
---------
2nd Stereo (front room):
Polk CRS+
Yamaha 85wpc dolby prologic
JVC 1-bit CD player
----------
3rd Stereo (bathroom):
HK495i (1986'ish)
Baby Avent Legacy II's

joelll

06-15-2002, 10:29 PM

My two channel rig? Why have one when I can have three! (and it's a good thing I live alone in a two-bedroom apartment, 'cause I have a home theater rig, too)

Living room system:
Sansui Eight receiver (80 wpc, ca. 1972)
Marantz CC-65se 5-CD changer
Technics SL-D20 turntable
Polk Monitor 12 speakers (AWWWWWWW YEAHHHH!)

Study system:
Sansui 4000 receiver (45wpc ca. 1974)
Sony CA-9ES 5-CD changer
Genesis Physics Model I speakers
Original Large Advent speakers
(the Genesis speakers (similar to EPI 100's) are inverted on top of the Advents, and the Sansui drives both pairs with ease; they sound *great* together)

Bedroom system:
NAD 3020 integrated amplifier (20wpc, ca. 1979)
Mitsubishi DA-F20 FM tuner
Denon DCD-1520 cd player
Genesis Physics Model 10 speakers

Apex

06-15-2002, 10:52 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by raycomics
[B]Don't know if you R a "Vintage" Guy, But I am here to tell ya that you can get really Hi-End Stuff (in its day) for pennies on tha dollar now on Ebay,

Yeah i just bought a Harmon/Kardon AVR7000 for $690.00 off of Ebay can't beat that.Came in the original packaging,w/everything.

I recommend Ebay but watch out not all sellers are as honest as the guy i dealt with.

Justin

Zero

06-17-2002, 09:55 AM

My God, Im being put to shame here left and right. Just when I thought my system was getting good. lol

My rig is as follows (please, dont laugh)

Onkyo TX-SR 600
Mintek DVD player
12 gauge typical speaker wire
Pair of Polk Audio RT2000p towers

and now I perhaps defied the 2 channel audio thing: Just added two 10' Infinity Perfect car subs. They are not hooked up yet.

Zero

06-17-2002, 09:55 AM

And I forgot to ask you people: Where do you purchase Franks Cables? I have yet to find this brand. Monster pretty much dominates the market.

TroyD

06-17-2002, 10:56 AM

signalcable.com

the owner's name is Frank Dai. If you order, be sure to tell him you are a clubpolk member.

Troy

gidrah

06-23-2002, 04:47 AM

Dyanco ST-120 amp
http://home.indy.net/~gregdunn/dynaco/components/ST120/index.html
Dynaco PAT-4 pre-amp
http://home.indy.net/~gregdunn/dynaco/components/PAT4/index.html
Playstation for CD player. Soon to be a Playstation2 (DVD ability)
Altec Lansing Segovia speakers
I'm working on a tuner. Once this is done I'll know how much I can spend on cables/wires. Signal is looking like the winner.
I also have a Carver Sonic Holography generator, SAE Parametric EQ, and a realistic graphic EQ that I may (or not) throw into the mix.

This is going to be the bedroom system. Once the bed and dressers are in place, I'll probably use a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze2s. I mainly wanted to sneak an amp/pre system into the workings for future upgrades. It's all part of the master plan.

Currently for dedicated 2ch listening, I use the main rig. I've got a pair of Acoustiflex sitting (upside-down) atop a pair of Polk 10Bs. I use my sub-room (rear amps from 5.1) to drive the Acoustiflex and the mains for the 10Bs. From top to bottom I get 10" woofer, 9&1/2 X 3" horn midrange, 3&1/2" cone tweeter (@100 watts), then a 1" dome tweeter, 2 6&1/2" mid-woofers, 10" passive radiator (@100 watts). I've hooked the ST-120 to the pre-outs, but haven't give it alot of effort. Someday I'll try the Dynaco possibly followed by the Carver S.H. gen. to each set. I realize this has the potential for some nasty effects, but it's worth a try.

smglbrth

06-25-2002, 09:25 PM

ATCVenom - Don't feel bad, not all of us have thousands to spend on audio, even though we wish we did!!

Here's my list, not big but works for me!!

Preamp - Audiosource Pre One/A (for now anyway, to be replaced in the near future!)
Amps - Audiosource Amp One/A's (2, bridged)
CD/DVD - Onkyo DV-S555
Tuner - Onkyo T-4000
Speakers - Polk RTA-8t's

Had the HT once, it was neat and all but had to go with my love, 2 channel!!
:D

Libertyc

10-18-2002, 01:18 PM

2 channel rigs:

Polk SDA 1.2tl
pair of Carver M1.0t power amps
Audio Experience MK2 tube preamp
Yamaha tuner CT-400
Sony cd changer
Monster 12 gauge speaker wire

Den/offfice:
Polk SDA CRS
SAE P10 poweramp
NAD 1020 preamp
SAE tuner
Sony 400 changer
Technics tape deck
Monster sperker wire

Bedroom:
Polk Monitor 10b
Carver MF 130 receiver
Apex DVD player

Workout room:
Polk Monitor 10b
NAD 7175 receiver
JCV cd player

Deck:
KLH allweather

I have no wife - so speakers are everywhere!
Have extra set of Monitor 10s & Monitor 7s in the closet.

Zero

10-18-2002, 01:57 PM

Hmm looked at the post I made way back in April. I have since done some upgrades and look to do so once again in the future.

For now, my 2 channel rig consists of:

Source: AMC CD6 (to be replaced by the AMC CD8D)
AMP: Carver M200t powered amplifier.
PRE AMP: Carver CT-3 Pre-amplifier
Speakers: Polk Audio RT2000p (to be replaced by Lsi-9)
Cable: Monster Reference 2 Interconnect
MIT Series 4 speaker cable

burdette

10-18-2002, 03:18 PM

**I'm** pleasantly thrilled with my HT, even if the 2-channel rig is lacking good speakers right now.. so, humbly, here goes...

2-Channel:
Onkyo TX-84, 60wpc, new in 1989.
Yamaha 5-disc CD changer (1993)
Sony 3-head cassette deck (1993)
Philips turntable (circa 1975) with Grado F3e+.
Technics SL-5 compact linear tracking turntable, with Ortofon cartridge.
Panasonic hi-fi VCR hooked up to small TV
Right now, driving a pair of Polk M2s because all the other Polks have been swallowed by the HT. Used primarily for background music when cooking or reading.

HT:
Sherwood 7103 DD receiver bought this year to replace a dead Onkyo TX-84, 100wpc x 5.
Apex DVD player (2002)
Sony 5-disc CD changer, new in 1988 (Sony's 2nd gen. player, no play exchange)
Aiwa 3-head cassette deck (1993)
Toshiba hi-fi VCR, Toshiba 27" TV
Mains: Polk Monitor 7Cs
Center: Advent Center
Surrounds: Polk Monitor 5jr+
About 400+ VHS movies between those purchased and those recorded off cable; we're up to about 50 DVDs right now (not too bad given we just got our player 8 months ago).

HT room is perfect dimensions, and dedicated. All the electronics are housed in a cabinet built into the wall, with the back open in a storage closet for very easy access; all wiring to the speakers/TV comes through a piece of 2" PVC pipe low in the wall.

Next purchase will most likely be inexpensive, used speakers off the flea market to use instead of the M2s for the 2-channel (my sis picked up a pair of 5jr+ for $160 shipped.. I could've lived with that!); then, or instead, a subwoofer for the HT.

jdavy

10-22-2002, 09:48 AM

I use my dvp-s9000es to play sacd and regular cd's. The SRS's are driven by a NAD7175PE reciever, and I use monter Powerline 2 speaker wires. All good old stuff except the Sony.

rlw

10-22-2002, 07:33 PM

Sources:

Michell Orbe SE Turntable, SME-V arm, Lyra Helikon Cartridge
Balanced Audio Technology VK-D5SE CD Player
Teac X10R Reel-to-Reel

Phono PreAmp:

Pass Labs X-Ono

PreAmp:

Balanced Audio Technology VK-50SE

Power Amps:

Krell FPB200c
Krell FPB300c

Speakers:

Martin Logan Prodigies

TT, CDP, preamps, and power supplies housed in a Zoethecus rack, which in turn sits on a Vibraplane.

The little amp sits on some slabs of granite; the big amp sits on Valid Points and a 4" block of maple.

Cabling:

TG Audio Silver Speaker Cables
TG Audio Silver IC's
Kimber Select KS-1130 Silver IC's
Graham IC-70 Silver Phono Cable
TG Audio Silver Phono Cable
TG Audio SLVR Power Cords
Audience PowerChord Power Cords
TG Audio HSR-A Power Cords

AC:

4 dedicated circuits. Each amp has it's own 30A feed; all analog and pre's share a 20A feed; the CDP gets its own 20A feed.

The phono stage is plugged into a Balanced Power Technologies BPT-jr (wonderful improvement). Amps plug directly into wall. A pair of Monster HTS-2000's for the rest, with the CDP being the only thing plugged into one.

Room treatments:

EchoBusters Corner Flags
ASC Half Rounds
Some velvet curtains

Upgrades:

BPT's for all the gear - 1 for each amp, 1 for pre's, 1 for CDP.

Turn the 1 tall Zoethecus rack into two shorter racks.

Keep playing with vibration isolation.

More music!

Zero

10-23-2002, 07:01 PM

rlw

pictures man pictures........... we need em :)

mantis

10-23-2002, 07:15 PM

OK,
since thats all I got left now that my rt series speaker's and Denon receiver is out,I'm left with a 2 channel rig and my Lsi 15's.

Rotel RC-971 preamp
Rotel RB960BX amp
Polk Audio Lsi 15's
Pioneer Elite PDF-19 cd player
Pioneer Elite DV47a(for 2 channel SACD Playback)
Phillips TiVo dsr6000 (for dss music)
Monstercable HTS5000 surge/line condisioner
Transparent Music link interconnects
Monstercable M1.4s bi wires with spade lugs
Bello rack to house all this maddness.

You know 2 channel is very cool and I love sitting there listening to music.......but without 5.1 or 7.1 DVD just isn't anywhere near as enjoyable........Watching The Matrix,Star Wars,etc just isn't the same without rears,center and a sub..........I can't do 2 channel of theater......it's just not for me.

polkatese

10-23-2002, 07:37 PM

Dan,
I noticed you have the pioneer dv-47iA, how do you like it? I am itch to upgrade my dv-37 to either 47iA (so that I can experience DVD-A and SACD) or 38A (which only DVD-A). Is the SACD material about equal to DVD-A sonically? Interested to hear your thoughts on DVD-A vs. SACD or both....Thanks, fh

madmax

10-23-2002, 08:13 PM

rlw,
I would love to see some pics. I know you are just getting it together in the new room but it would be cool to have something to drool over. This setup would undoubtedly throw a shadow over most of us but we like that! When you are ready you must post some!!! PS: Thanks!
madmax
madmax

nadams

10-23-2002, 09:37 PM

Here's my current rig. I'm not into HT, so all I have is a 2ch.

Receiver: JVC RX558V Audio/Video Control Receiver (100w x 2 or 80 x 4)
Tape: Sharp RT-12
Graphic Eq- RCA (10 bands per ch w/ a 10 band graphic eq)
CD: Sharp DX-670
Speakers: A: Polk Monitor 5jr (now w/ new tweeters! :))
B: Micro-Acoustics ma3dx (replaced the dry-rotted 8" subs w/ Rockford Fosgate Punch Z competition subs, just for a little fun. They don't have much musical quality for light listening, but they add some nice punch when you have it turned up... even w/ classic rock-type music.)

I'll post a pic once I get my hands on a digital camera. :-D

nadams

mantis

10-23-2002, 10:12 PM

polkatese,
The Pioneer Elite I own is the earlier model in the dv47a not the dv47ai......The new one has the Link for sacd and dvd audio straight to the Pioneer Elite vsx49txi.

SACD and DVD AUDIO well.......it's a toss up sonically.They both sound so much better then regular cd's.Software has been slow to come out, butthe market is seeing more and more each day.I haven't been out lately to buy sacd or dvd audio,but I'm looking forward to a trip soon .

SACD sounds awesome in 2 channel, but for multichannel dvd audio seems to have there act together alittle more.sacd sounds a bit unnatural......you got to listen to it 2 understand where I'm coming from.dvd audio as far as I know doesn't have just 2 channel disk's.....all multichannel.They are both real good I believe.I want to get more titles on my shelves to experience the new formats deeper.........funny how titles are format specific.You can't get the same title on both formats......so head to head is hard.....I like em both, thats why I decided to go with the Pioneer Elite dv47a back when it first came out.I 2 was lusting after the dc38a.....and almost picked it up but I found out about the dv47a and waited it out..............I'm glad I did.....

polkatese

10-24-2002, 11:01 AM

Dan,
thanks for the feedback, I'll start auditioning the two formats. I think I might end up with the dv-47, just so that I have the options to listen to both. fh

danger boy

10-24-2002, 01:07 PM

if you have a DVD-a or SACD player.. why would anyone want to listen to that in 2 channel? Yes the 2 channel in both of those formats sound better than a regular CD, but why choose 2 channel when you have multichannel available?

TroyD

10-24-2002, 01:20 PM

I would say just because it's multi-channel doesn't mean it's better.

BDT

madmax

10-24-2002, 02:18 PM

I used to feel the same as danger boy said above. Now that my 2 channel rig can do what it should I am sane again.
madmax

TroyD

10-24-2002, 02:31 PM

I think the theory behind it is sound enough (no pun intended) but I think in practice it's a different story.

BDT

danger boy

10-24-2002, 02:38 PM

TroyD this is true. but if a DVD-a or SACD is mixed that way. why not give it a try?

madmax

10-24-2002, 06:11 PM

I think TroyD and I would both give it a try. Actually I have DVD Audio in the car and have auditioned it on my friends setup in his home. The reason I don't care for it is the same reason "Quadraphonic" equipment in the late 70's didn't take off. It is not the equipment. Instead of mixing the music properly it is all about sitting in the middle of the instruments. When is the last time you went to listen to something live and heard some of the instruments playing from behind you? Actually I like this for some stuff because you end up on the stage in the middle of the band (I'm a wannabe musician) but far and wide people want something different. They should be putting the room ambience in your room rather than playing games all around you. The WOW factor is why they are doing it but in reality that gets really old after a few sittings.

Nothing to say the people doing the mastering will get their act together but nothing I have heard to date is even close to real.
madmax

PS: I will probably get a unit anyway when I find the right multi-format one.

TroyD

10-24-2002, 06:23 PM

I concur with Chuck's assesment. It's not that I'm fundamentally opposed to multi-channel but I think it is a less realistic presentation of the material.

Having said that, I'm not philosophically opposed to multi channel but at this point it seems that it is more contrived by an engineer than regular stereo. Also, the more links you bring in to the chain, the greater the likelyhood of unwanted side effects. A wise man once said, the more knobs, bells and whistles it has, the worse it sounds.

Anyway, I'm off the soapbox and we shall see what happens. I just think that multichannel has many more hurdles to clear.

BDT

shack

10-24-2002, 06:55 PM

I have a SACD set up and am working on a dedicated 2 channel system. That system will have a SACD player as its CD transport. Even in my multi-channel setup I find myself listening to the 2 channel version of the SACD more often than not. Multi channel is nice and technologically interesting when it is done right and I enjoy it....BUT....the 2 channel mix is more "realistic" to me. I agreee with the "in the middle of the music" theory to some extent but music does not always have to sound "LIVE". Sometimes I prefer the studio sound to the live music sound. I like SACD for the improved resolution you get in either multi or stereo format.

Both multi and 2 channel can be enjoyable for music and to each his own. But if I had to choose one over the other it would be 2 channel Stereo. (yes I was around for the quadraphonic stage and I didn't like it then!)

b2sc

10-24-2002, 08:58 PM

I'm a little late getting ion this but here goes:

pre: Conrad Johnson PV11a (2 sets of outputs)

output 1: (the refined....)
amp: Threshold S/500
speaks: B&W CDM7se

output 2: (the rockin'....)
amp: Adcom GFA-555
speaks: Polk SDA-1A

CD: ADS CD3
Tuner: Magnum Dynalab FT101
Cassette Yamaha 3 head/3 motor
Turntable: Dual CS5000 w/Ortofon X5MC cart.

Most of this stuff I've had for the last 15 years. I am looking to upgrade the B&Ws to N802s in the next several months....

mantis

10-24-2002, 09:41 PM

I will have a multichannel dvd audio and sacd system again.........as I once did with my rt series setup......I'm in the middle of a move, we are building a new home,the siding just went on today and everything is rolling right along.........finally.

Just for now ,I'm running 2 channel in my listening room.I have had surround sound since the 80's and have upgraded like mad over the years.
I'm waiting untill my new house is complete and we move in before I finish my upgrade path(only if I can wait that long).

SACD does sound better to me in 2 channel over multichannel.The way its recorded for multichannel is weird.........to me.DVD AUDIO is better recorded for multichannel,I'm not listening to dvd audio right now, just sacd.You have to experience it in order to comment on it......to say it's fake or like quad or any other coments are ......well.......just that.....I say go listen to it for awhile and make up your own mind if the new formats are right for you or not.........just like 2 channel home theater....I do it now and I think it sucks........yes my Lsi 15's dominate my entire rt series in sound quality.......but it lacks the ability to explode and move around the room when called for.Dolby digital and DTS 5.1/6.1 isn't recorded to be played back in 2 channel.It's multichannel......

There are some guys in here that just like 2 channel and could give a rats ass about multichannel anything....music/movies......thats fine...thats them.........make up your own mind on what and how you want to be entertained......I perfer hearing what was recorded and playback in that manner..........like 7 or 5 channel stereo...........to me it sucks......but alot of people like it that way.I like it when it was actually recorded that way.....dvd audio does a good job of it.......sacd is good as well but not consistant.......

it's a fun and wonderfull world of audio and video today......why limit yourself.............go explore and have some stress releaving fun.........I do ...... do you??????????????????:)

Zero

10-25-2002, 02:13 AM

I listen to various SACD work, and I must say the sound is so refined and clean it almost creates a "fake" atmosphere. I think it will take some adjusting to tune your ears into listening to such detailed and clear reproduction of sound.

danger boy

10-25-2002, 02:41 AM

I guess for multichannel audio to really work.. you need to have 5 identical speakers and a subwoofer. and you must be sitting an equal distance from each speaker. in reality how many of us have such a set up? I for one don't. and probably never will. but i still like DVD-a. so there. :p:p:p

danger boy

10-25-2002, 02:49 AM

bottom line. if two channel 16bit CD's sounded as clear as multichannel audio.. we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. All i'm saying. is you can't beat the sound quality of 24bit discs. whether you like to listen to 2 channel or multichannel audio.

rlw

10-25-2002, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by danger boy
bottom line. if two channel 16bit CD's sounded as clear as multichannel audio.. we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. All i'm saying. is you can't beat the sound quality of 24bit discs. whether you like to listen to 2 channel or multichannel audio.

I dunno...if you ask the SACD engineers, I'm sure they'll have a slightly different opinion, since SACD is 1 bit.

madmax

10-25-2002, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by ATCVenom
I listen to various SACD work, and I must say the sound is so refined and clean it almost creates a "fake" atmosphere. I think it will take some adjusting to tune your ears into listening to such detailed and clear reproduction of sound.

I think if it feels at all strange or uncomfortable then the sound is probably not natural. The first thing you notice when listening to live instruments and vocals is how smooth and natural it feels.
madmax

danger boy

10-25-2002, 02:10 PM

rlw, the two formats are like comparing apples and kiwi fruit. ha ha ha. the compression used in regular cd's and SACD's is way different.

shack, DVD-a and SACD are NOTHING like quadraphonic stereo was. this is much better. better seperation of sound and vocals.

but i guess finally music is being taken to the next level. and it's about time. for a change. after about 20+ years of non movement in the music industry. it's great to know that someone is leading the way to make improvements for those of us who were looking for something better.

TroyD

10-25-2002, 02:47 PM

I still have yet to hear a convincing argument as to HOW or WHAT makes multi-channel inherently superior to stereo. I will grant the higher resolution but I'm not buying the more channels = better sound argument.

BDT

rlw

10-25-2002, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by danger boy
rlw, the two formats are like comparing apples and kiwi fruit. ha ha ha. the compression used in regular cd's and SACD's is way different.

IMO, that's not true. First, there are 3 formats under discussion: DVD-A, CD, and SACD.

DVD-A and CD both use PCM as their encoding scheme; the former increases resolution to 24 bit.

SACD uses DSD, a 1 bit, 2.4Mhz(? - might be off on this) completely different encoding scheme.

The DVD-A engineers argue that any 1 bit solution, no matter the frequency, is flawed from inception; their claim is that PCM-encoding is fine, but not at a depth of 16 bits. In essence, as I understand it, they claim that a 1 bit DSD datastream cannot offer both high dynamic range and wide frequency response at the same time - and they have some compelling mathematics behind their argument. Hence, SACD - according to them - is a lower-resolution format than DVD-A.

The SACD camp argues that PCM is inherently flawed when compared to DSD, due to an additional step taken with the datastream called decimation. This is avoided with DSD, which instead uses noise-shaping filters upon playback.

So, in key respects - the encoding scheme - CD and DVD-A are very much apples and apples. BTW, PCM is not a compression method; neither is DSD.

SACD and DVD-A do employ radically different encoding streams, so in some sense, they are apples and kiwis, I guess. However, there are still some valid comparisons to be made, IMO.

polkatese

10-25-2002, 03:33 PM

Wow, I guess the subject really touches off several compelling arguments on the merit of multi-channel audio.....perhaps we should start a new thread on the subject....

Dan, quick question on your statement, here:
yes my Lsi 15's dominate my entire rt series in sound quality.......but it lacks the ability to explode and move around the room when called for.Dolby digital and DTS 5.1/6.1 isn't recorded to be played back in 2 channel.It's multichannel......

could you expand on what you meant by this statement?? curious mind inquiring....fh

izafar

10-25-2002, 03:36 PM

Multi Chanel is better than stereo in the same way as stereo is better than mono, and in both cases addition of a sound source is not the only source of this improvement, it merely provides a potential for the mixing enginer to make the recording more real and involving.

So it is not only the number of chanels, it is how they are utilsed. I think you will agree that stereo source that bascially produces the identical signal from the two chanels is not much of an imrovment from a mono source. But when doene right it makes alot of difference over mono sound. Similarly when done right multichanel has the potential to provide much better experince then steroe.

meestercleef

10-25-2002, 05:33 PM

I think it was J Gordon Holt, or maybe Sam Tellig (one of the grand old men) who said something to the effect that realism is the way you evaluate speakers, but realism is more difficult to define if you're talking about reproducing electronic sounds--the music he was using to evaluate realistic reproduction was acoustic.
It's not just a matter of channels, but location. Theoretically, you could have 3 identical full-range spkrs in front of you, dividing the performance into stage l/c/r & say that it's incrementally more realistic than stereo, which is incrementally more realistic that mono. However, unless you are using surround channels to give a "live" ambience to a concert recording, I don't see how a bass solo coming out of the rears can be realistic, unless the bassist was actually performing from the balcony during the concert.
I think that the younger you are, the more likely you are to be attracted to surround as a neat effect. Electronic music, game effects, surround in theaters--all of these things tend to shape the perception that musical sound is simply one more thing to be rearranged in the coolest way, aimed at maximum sensory overload. It's not about realism. That doesn't mean it's bad. But
even a surround advocate like David Chesky doesn't really like the way music surround mixing has been the cart to the movie 5.1 horse. He prefers different types of surround mixing for music, but also realizes the logistical problems involved. He's done 4.0 & 6.0 mixes, & in the 6.0 the spkrs are not positioned like they are in 6.1 movie surround. Who, besides a professional, can have all these different setups for different types of surround mixes?

mantis

10-25-2002, 08:21 PM

polkatese,
what I meant by that statement is that 2 channel no matter how good it is, it can't recreate the Home Theater experience....for me that is.......DVD isn't recorded in 2 channel.........

hey I meant to ask yeah.....did you get black or sliver in your Rotel???????How are you loving it...I bet your loving the **** out of it.

polkatese

10-25-2002, 10:01 PM

Dan,
I got the black one, since everything else that I own are black. Of course I am loving it. In fact, today I received the LSiFx (the LSi15 still en route from PA, supposedly Polk's wharehouse is there)...bit of dissapointment since I am hoping I can complete the tweaking this weekend). But, I tell ya, the LSi series are definitely need better amp to drive them. I compared with the RM-3000, I could get decent volume at about 50 on the Rotel, with the LSiFx, and LSiC in place, I have to push it to 60 to get the same level....The Rotel sounds soooooo clean on the LSi. I am surprise that the LSiFx doesn't get too much of a review, I've been hearing more about LSi9. The build, finish, and audio quality is so good...I tried the Rotel with the 5ch stereo, and it sounds great, dynamic is definitely improved quite a bit.....

Next upgrade, multi channel audio....I have to pace myself so that the wife doesn't try to outspend me on others.....:lol:

But, the Denon may be next, they were talking about SACD upgrade, but only with direct link to the 5803, do you know anything about this upcoming upgrade? fh

danger boy

10-25-2002, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by rlw

IMO, that's not true. First, there are 3 formats under discussion: DVD-A, CD, and SACD.

DVD-A and CD both use PCM as their encoding scheme; the former increases resolution to 24 bit.

SACD uses DSD, a 1 bit, 2.4Mhz(? - might be off on this) completely different encoding scheme.

The DVD-A engineers argue that any 1 bit solution, no matter the frequency, is flawed from inception; their claim is that PCM-encoding is fine, but not at a depth of 16 bits. In essence, as I understand it, they claim that a 1 bit DSD datastream cannot offer both high dynamic range and wide frequency response at the same time - and they have some compelling mathematics behind their argument. Hence, SACD - according to them - is a lower-resolution format than DVD-A.

The SACD camp argues that PCM is inherently flawed when compared to DSD, due to an additional step taken with the datastream called decimation. This is avoided with DSD, which instead uses noise-shaping filters upon playback.

So, in key respects - the encoding scheme - CD and DVD-A are very much apples and apples. BTW, PCM is not a compression method; neither is DSD.

SACD and DVD-A do employ radically different encoding streams, so in some sense, they are apples and kiwis, I guess. However, there are still some valid comparisons to be made, IMO.

this was taken from the DVD-Audio preview web page:

The DVD-Audio format is designed to deliver the highest audio fidelity possible. No lossy audio compression is used on any primary audio content on a DVD-Audio. However, uncompressed audio files tend to be large, and they require high bandwidth for delivery. Because of these constraints, as an option to the content provider, the DVD-Audio format features a special form of lossless compression called Meridian Lossless Packing (MLP). The key difference between lossy compression and lossless compression, such as MLP, is that lossless compression does not discard any audio information. All of the audio content can be completely and accurately reconstructed from an MLP file, achieving the ultimate in fidelity.

A DVD-Audio disc may use MLP to solve two different technical issues: First, if the content provider finds that there is not enough room on the disc for all the audio content, then MLP may be used to reduce the size of audio files so that everything fits on the disc. Second, if the content provider intends to deliver 96kHz/24-bit 6-channel surround sound, MLP must be used on this audio to reduce the bandwidth requirement to one that can be easily handled by the DVD-Audio player.

MLP represents the ultimate in high-fidelity audio compression because it is the only compression format supported by DVD-Audio that allows every bit of the original recording to be reproduced accurately and completely.

that's good enough for me. . for the helluva it. i'm going to listen to some DVD-a tonight in 2 channel and see how it sounds. i'm an openminded forward thinking kind of guy.

danger boy

10-25-2002, 10:54 PM

i'd support a new thread on multichannel audio. instead of debating it in here.

meestercleef

10-28-2002, 03:34 PM

Oddly enuff, J Gordon Holt packed his bags & went surround back in 1999. At least that's how the 40th anniv STEREOPHILE describes it.

audiomaven

11-02-2002, 12:55 AM

I've got many systems in the house, but the main system is a B&K EX-442 200 wpc in dual mono configuration. Pre amp is Audio Research LS-7, All tube line level. Digital is the EAD T-7000 multi disc transport with an EAD dsp7000 D/A. Speakers were the Polk monitor 10 B, but after 10 years I upgraded to B&W Matrix 802 series3, on sound anchor stands. The Polks were on Standesign 14 inch steel stands, sand filled and spiked. All cables are Audio quest. And everything is plugged into an Adcom ACE 515 Running out of 20 amp dedicated outlets.

madmax

11-03-2002, 10:20 AM

Sounds like a great system! Welcome to the Polk site!!!!
madmax

nadams

11-08-2002, 04:58 PM

:-)

Here it is, in all it's glory:

Wide view of shelf, equip, and Polk 5jrs (http://www.king-nerd.com/dood/images/2ch/MVC-011s.jpg)

Zoom in on shelf, equip, and Polk 5jrs (http://www.king-nerd.com/dood/images/2ch/MVC-012s.jpg)

Micro Acoustics MA 3DX speakers (http://www.king-nerd.com/dood/images/2ch/mvc-014s.jpg)

A cool shot of my graphic eq at night. (http://www.king-nerd.com/dood/images/2ch/mvc-006s.jpg)

What do you guys think?

liv4fam

11-18-2002, 09:35 PM

Well I don't have DQ-10's.

I suck.

BooHoo

F1nut

11-19-2002, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by liv4fam

I SUCK.

congrats, you've finally admitted it

phuz

11-19-2002, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by F1nut

I SUCK.

congrats, you've finally admitted it

Indeed. Now the real question is wether he spits or swallows.

PETERNG

11-20-2002, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by phuz

Indeed. Now the real question is wether he spits or swallows.

Don't bet on it, I don't think he's "man" enough to do that...

abmarsh

12-13-2002, 01:16 PM

Turntable - Technics SL/QL-1 - purchased 1982 - not currently hooked up
EQ - Audio Control model Ten - purchased 1984
Speakers - Polk Audio SDA-2A - purchased 1987
Receiver - Denon DRA-625 - purchased 1989
CD - Denon DCD-820 - purchased 1991
Tape - Denon DRM-720 - purchased 1996

None of my stuff is very new, but it was good gear when I bought it and still sounds that way!

joe logston

12-15-2002, 01:26 PM

i got them both (multi&2channel) and like them both

Zero

12-16-2002, 10:32 PM

Sick bastages.

Dr. Spec

12-21-2002, 06:58 AM

My 2 Channel Rig:

Harman Kardon h/k 870 high current amp
Harman Kardon h/k 825 pre-amp
Harman Kardon EQ7 graphic equalizer
Sony CDP-390 CD player with 4X oversampling and dual D/A converters
Sony PS-X500 direct drive turntable with servo driven tone arm and Grado cartridge
New Advent Loudspeaker full range two way acoustic suspension loudspeakers

Doc

Gary Robertson

12-24-2002, 11:44 AM

I just thought i'd put in my 2 cents worth..I'm in love with my set up also..Mine is an ADCOM gfa-545 amp-with a ADCOM gtp - 450 preamp/tuner. and then the front end is a YAMAHA cd-755.
This lil' guy has chips that turn a 16 bit recording int a 20 bit before transport-(i love that) Kick ass bottom end too. and then there's the MERIDIAN-(needs no explanatin) but its
being repaired ..Whaa !!! just like a finniky Ferrari ..ha,ha... my inner connects are MONSTER 850-i's with monster speaker wire..(i want nordhost but i just can't see paying the price of a small house for cables)..Then there's the POLK RT-7'S. ADDED TO A velodyne 12/15 powered subwoofer.With expiermentation and the proper placement--this thing rocks-not only is it really clean (my opinion) it also rattles stuff on top of the refrigerator 4 rooms away..(kewl)--last but definately not least is the very cool BBE--ARS audio restoration system.
This little device keeps evrything clean and creates audio extacy..Of course this is all in "MY" opinion and it only really matters to me..But the
nicest thing about the whole thing itto open up a STEREOPHILE and see my stuff in there..(or has been in there)with the exception of the YAMAHA"S.........
i guess the exitement of finally obtaining a high end sytstem hasn'tworn off yet....i used to own rack systems and thought i had something great ,,, boy did i expierence a rude awakening..

George Grand

01-04-2003, 06:19 PM

Just speakers for now, electronics at a different time.

AR-9's (late 70's vintage towers with two 12" sealed box SIDE-FIRING woofers, one 8" lower mid, one dome upper mid, and one dome tweet per 130lb cabinet. The 2nd finest speakers I have ever heard. My home theater speakers.)

AR-302's (10" three-way sealed box in cherry, still new in boxes)

ADC 303ax (early 70's 10" two-way sealed box, direct compete with AR and KLH)

Advent Model 3's (70's vintage 6"two-way sealed box)

The New Advent Loudspeaker (late 70's 10" two-way sealed box, currently in my daughters bedroom, recent re-foam, mint)

Audiofile ?'s (no model # 3" wide range, palm of your hand sized bombproof sealed enclosures. Awesome little Bose "Twisty Thing" Killers! I can honestly say I have no idea where I got them.)

Auratone 5C's (small 5" wide range that belonged to Leonard Feldman, late, great, audio man)

Boston Acoustics BA735 (sub/sat computer system).

The Carver Amazing Platinum's (I've said enough about these in the past. Simply the finest speakers I have ever heard. My main stereo only rig is where these live)

Electro-Voice Model 7 ('60's era 8" two-way)

Electro-Voice Marquis ('60's 10 or 12" two-way with concentrically mounted tweets in a humongous cabinet, like Bozak B-302's. They are my garage speakers)

EPI 100v (I have two pair of these 8" two-way sealed boxes, with INVERTED dome tweeter. Three of the four require re-foaming. Some people felt that this was the most bang for the buck loudspeaker ever made, along with AR's Model 6, also an 8" two-way sealed box from the late 60's- early 70's.)

JBL 2060 (unremarkable 6" vented two-way)

KEF 102 (overpriced English 6" two-way sealed box. It's in a nice cabinet.)

KLH Model 6 (I have two pair of these, THE 10" sealed box two-way. One pair on my desk at work, the other owned since 1974 and now residing in my other daughters room.)

KLH 17 (10" two-way sealed box employing the exact same drivers as the Model 6, but in a slightly smaller cabinet. I have never developed a love for these. Maybe because I know how much deep end can come from that woofer in a slightly larger cabinet like the Model 6.)

KLH 24 (early 70's 6" two-way sealed box)

Optimus LX-4 (Rat Shack 4" wooden sealed box two-way with Linaeum tweeter. Brand new in boxes)

Optimus Minimus 7/Pro 7 (I don't know how many pair of these I have. Three or four I would say. GREAT little 3 or 4" ABSOLUTELY BOMBROOF two-way. I love these little ****s. By themselves, with sub, they're little marvels.)

Parasound BPI450 Passive Woofer Module (neat little two 5 1/4" drivers mounted on opposite sides of a sealed box. Great with Minimus 7/Pro 7, or Audiofile's.)

RA Labs Mini-Reference (overachieving early 90's 6" two-way sealed box from Roy Allison

Recoton V632 Powered Spkrs (5 1/4" two-way with tweet like KEF's Uni-Q. Hooked up to Stephie's computer.)

Except for a pair of Lafayette Criterion 2ax's on loan to someone, that might be it.

I did it in alphabetical order. Neat huh? Now my head hurts like a .........

If somebody had told me my speaker collection only went up to the letter "R", I would've told them they were nuts.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

RuSsMaN

01-04-2003, 06:54 PM

What happened George? Fingers get tired? Where's all the KLH and Dynaco?

Perhaps we should have a post, "What gear do you have that has 'G Grand, Zoo Jersey' written on the bottom.

I'll disregard the whole house and HT rig for now, mancave as follows:

Polk SDA CRS+
Infinity Qb x 4
Kef Cresta 2
ADC 16/2 Cd
Nad 1130 Pre
Nad 2240PE Amp
Akai CS-MO2 Cassette
Quadraflex Reference 610T Turntable
MIT Term 4 Speaker Cables
Signal Cable Interconns
Rack Rider RR-15NL Power Cond/Surge

Cheers,
Rooster

TroyD

01-05-2003, 08:30 AM

my 'newest' 2ch rig is the 'combat rig':

Realistic SA-100b 10 wpc integrated
Realistic TM-175 tuner
Panny portable CD player
Polk Atrium 45's

This will be my hifi system for the next 5 months or so.

BDT

TroyD

01-05-2003, 08:31 AM

Yes, and I have a veritable PLETHORA of gear that says G. Grand on the bottom of it...

BDT

rlw

01-05-2003, 06:00 PM

Removed the Krell FPB200c power amp, added the Martin Logan Descent Subwoofer.

------------------------------------------

Michell Orbe SE Turntable, SME-V arm, Lyra Helikon Cartridge
Balanced Audio Technology VK-D5SE CD Player
Teac X10R Reel-to-Reel

Phono PreAmp:

Pass Labs X-Ono

PreAmp:

Balanced Audio Technology VK-50SE

Power Amps:

Krell FPB300c

Speakers:

Martin Logan Prodigies
Martin Logan Descent Subwoofer

TT, CDP, preamps, and power supplies housed in a Zoethecus rack, which in turn sits on a Vibraplane.

The little amp sits on some slabs of granite; the big amp sits on Valid Points and a 4" block of maple.

Cabling:

TG Audio Silver Speaker Cables
TG Audio Silver IC's
Kimber Select KS-1130 Silver IC's
MIT 330HE's to the sub
Graham IC-70 Silver Phono Cable
TG Audio Silver Phono Cable
TG Audio SLVR Power Cords
Audience PowerChord Power Cords
TG Audio HSR-A Power Cords

AC:

4 dedicated circuits. Each amp has it's own 30A feed; all analog and pre's share a 20A feed; the CDP gets its own 20A feed.

The phono stage is plugged into a Balanced Power Technologies BPT-jr (wonderful improvement). Amps plug directly into wall. A pair of Monster HTS-2000's for the rest, with the CDP being the only thing plugged into one.

Room treatments:

EchoBusters Corner Flags
ASC Half Rounds
Some velvet curtains

Upgrades:

BPT's for all the gear - 1 for each amp, 1 for pre's, 1 for CDP.

Turn the 1 tall Zoethecus rack into two shorter racks.

Keep playing with vibration isolation.

More music!

Zero

01-05-2003, 06:12 PM

rlw, post some pics.

rlw

01-05-2003, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by ATCVenom
rlw, post some pics.

Pic (http://www.avantsystems.com/bob/1.jpg)

Pic (http://www.avantsystems.com/bob/2.jpg)

Pic (http://www.avantsystems.com/bob/3.jpg)

Pic (http://www.avantsystems.com/bob/4.jpg)

Pic (http://www.avantsystems.com/bob/5.jpg)

Disclaimer: I really suck as a photographer.

Dr. Spec

01-05-2003, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by George Grand
The New Advent Loudspeaker (late 70's 10" two-way sealed box, currently in my daughters bedroom, recent re-foam, mint)

After 25 years, I'm still amazed at how uncolored and neutral these speakers are. BTW, mine are recent refoam also.

They have fabulous octave-to-octave balance and they dig to about 35 Hz strong with that great acoustic suspension tight bass.

The ferrofluid midrange-tweeter combo unit is amazingly effortless for its size, and brass and piano are rendered very well.

Downfalls - the soundstage is not what I would call rock solid, and they definitely lack the depth, imaging, and inner detail of more recent vintage quality speakers.

The New Advent Loudspeaker was one of THE landmark speakers of its time - a genuine milestone in the audio industry. I will never sell mine - not only do they still sound great, they hold great sentimental value for me.

Ed

shack

01-05-2003, 11:12 PM

It's funny you should mention your New Advent Loudspeakers. Just yesterday I hooked mine up in my basement along with some other speakers I have not been using to see how they were holding up. Amplification was an old Sony pro-logic receiver but they still sounded pretty good. The speakers I hooked up were the New Advent Loudspeakers, Polk RT25is, AR-4Xs and some Advent Mini IIs. The ARs (circa 1971) have either crossover problemsor blown tweeters and im guessing its the tweeters. The New Advents still do sound good. They were put up due to torn foam surrounds. The little Advents are ok and would be fine for a satelite system. The Polk RT25is are an amazing little speaker holding their own with the bigger Advents. Pretty good bass, better and cleaner midrange and a totally different sound than the Advents on the highs. Here are some speakers that have been around the block a few times and even though they are low mid-fi at best, they have served me well.

shack

01-05-2003, 11:20 PM

Dr. Spec or George - I plan on keeping these Advents as long as I can hear and until just recently not aware that there were refoaming kits available. Did either of you do the job yourself and if so what kit did you get and how difficult was the job? Only one speaker surround is torn (see pic.) but I would like to put these back in service so I would need to refoam both.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

01-05-2003, 11:41 PM

HEY! THOSE ARE THE SPEAKERS MY DAD IS GONNA SALE ME!

George Grand

01-06-2003, 07:02 AM

My woofers were already re-done when I got them. Get those foams done, and I'm not sure the Polk's will still keep up low-end wise. I'm not sure I would've described them as "low mid-fi".

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

Dr. Spec

01-06-2003, 12:54 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3276&item=1949586820

Here ya go, Shack. Mine were worse than yours.

OK George - waiting for the other foot to fall - which way are you going to go on the Advent sound quality? Worse or better than Shack's description?

Ed

RuSsMaN

01-06-2003, 01:11 PM

I'm going to guess better, MUCH better.

Cheers,
Russ

shack

01-06-2003, 01:35 PM

Thanks for the info Ed.

Now to clear the record. I think the Advents are a wonderful speaker. I think the Advent has the edge over the RT25i on the upper range even though they are very different sounds. The mid-range is where the Polks excel in my opinion. It has a fuller sound that has a depth to it that seems better that the Advent and the Polks really image well. The Polk's bass, while very good given its size, is no match for the Advent. I assume that the Advents will improve when they are refoamed which will widen the gap. My comments were more about my impression of the quality little Polks rather than any disparaging remarks about the Advents. I listened to many small monitors including the B&W DM303, DM602, CM2, Paridigm Titans, PSB Minis, Linn Katan and Vienna Acoustics Hadyns as well as the LSi7 and Lsi9s trying to find something significantly better than the RT25is. I found them comparable to most but falling short of the Linn, VA and LSis (all in the $800 - $1,100 range).

George - as far as my low midfi definition, I know that Advent always said they compared to speakers 3 to 4 times their cost (SEE BELOW) but thier price range and status at the time put them in mid-fi category (however at that time you probably just had cheap consumer speakers and High End and everything else fell somewhere in between). That plus the fact that these were the utility grade cabinets is where I came up with that def.(I wish I could have stepped up to the better cabinet but at the time the sound was more important than the looks and this was a stretch for a kid just out of college). The Advents will be repaired and are definitely keepers.

http://www.arsenal.net/speakers/advent/adventad.jpg

Dr. Spec

01-06-2003, 07:49 PM

I extensively A-B'd the Advents and the RT800i on a variety of source material.

The RT800i has (I hated to admit this) slightly better definition in the low bass. The Advent has the edge in bass transient response (no surprise here with the sealed design) though.

The Advent has a more effortless room filling nature in the upper midrange and treble on high energy transients - the snare drum on the Advent is uncannily realistic.

The biggest difference: The RT800i has far superior detail, imaging and soundstage - it is much more 3 dimensional and stable in its presentation. I expected this after nearly 30 years of loudspeaker development. In comparison, the Advent has a very flat and somewhat smeared soundstage with much less inner detail. For classical music realism, the Polk totally outclasses the Advent.

larssc

01-14-2003, 08:53 PM

Dropped by to scope out replacement tweeter for my
SDA2-A. Damn 2yr old grandson ! :-)

My system

Mirage 3si
Adcom Gfa 545 ii
adcom 555 pre amp
adcom 575 cd
adcom Gsp 560 Dolby pro
Yamaha tx 500 tuner
technics D1 table, Stanton 681 eee
(it's in the cabinet)

Mirage mcc-r center
Polk SDA2-a as surrounds

Larry

George Grand

01-14-2003, 09:31 PM

I LIKE the sound of the big, old, acoustic suspension Advents, AR's, and KLH's. Figure out a way to measure the diffs between the designs, and the newer ones may well prove to be the more "accurate" of the two. Perhaps not. In the meantime we're here discussing "preferences" or perceived differences.

Time could well be the final arbiter of this discussion. Call me in 30 years with the resale price of a pair of RTI's. Any of the RTI's. We'll see if a mint pair can fetch as much, OR MORE, than they did yesterday. Like the Advent's are doing today.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

abmarsh

01-15-2003, 07:28 AM

I had a friend who had a set of Advent speakers shortly after we graduated high school. I still remember listening to Led Zeppelin at ridiculous volume levels. Around that time, Electro-Voice and EPI also had some good speakers. The first "good" speakers I owned were EPIs.

Tour2ma

01-15-2003, 05:48 PM

Doc, George,

Do you find the need to do any mid-range boosting with your Advents?

Always thought they had a bit of a "hole" there, as with all two-ways, but came closer than most to getting away with "it". At their price, and increased sensitivity vs. comparable 3-ways with their complex cross-overs, they really tempted me at the time...

Its amazing the number of groundbreaking products Harvey turned out at Advent to fund his video projector develop...

George Grand

01-15-2003, 05:55 PM

Everything is always flat here. Maybe Harvey Kloss is still alive and kicking, but Henry bit the dust.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

Tour2ma

01-16-2003, 12:46 AM

Right, Henry... not the first or last brain fart I'll have and expose here... especially at the end of a long night.

Knew better, I just re-read his paper, "Hoffman's Iron Law" - A Curiously Useful Way of Looking at The Low-Frequency Performance of Loudspeakers, the other day.

Had misssed word of his passing until about an hour ago when I stumbled across the obit notice posted here ~11 months ago... it saddened me.

Dr. Spec

01-17-2003, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Tour2ma
Doc, George,

Do you find the need to do any mid-range boosting with your Advents?

Always thought they had a bit of a "hole" there, as with all two-ways, but came closer than most to getting away with "it".

Not at all. In fact, the upper mid range is the forte of the Advent, IMO. If anything, it is bright and a bit harsh if the 3-way treble switch is run on Normal or Extended. I run mine on Decrease and it seems just right for my room acoustics.

The female voice, piano, brass horns, snare drums and anything else with high mid range energy is reproduced very naturally on the Advent.

It's really remarkable that the x-over is somewhere around 1,500 Hz and that mid/tweet unit plays that low so effortlessly and the woofer plays that high so cleanly.

These are easy to listen to for hours, and just sound so "right" on classic rock/pop - clean punchy bass, room filling power, and a clean forward midrange. They make you immediately want to sing along or play air guitar with the old classics.

dholmes

01-17-2003, 07:56 AM

I have 2 rti150 onkyo m-504 amp & 304 pre-amp, Toshiba 9200 dvd audio player, Audio control eq c101. Hey TroyD I remember them Dahlquist, they are a great spk

debussyj

01-18-2003, 12:28 PM

Hi,

Well I've got the following.

Two Classic Adcom GFA-555 Amps. (Electrostatics love the power)
Acoustat 2+2 Electrostatic Speakers (Love Them)
Audible Illusions Modulus 3 Preamp (Amperex Gold Pin Tubes)
Nakamichi Dragon (Just Can't Part With It)
VPI Turntable
Revox 225 CD Player

This is a cool fun setup, but it does cost $$ to make changes and tweak it. Hey, isn't that what audio is all about?

TroyD

01-18-2003, 12:47 PM

Tell me a little about the Acoustats if you please.

There was a pair advertised here in the paper some time back and I wanted to check them out but I had to go out of town and were sold by the time I came back.

Thanks!

BDT

debussyj

01-18-2003, 04:35 PM

Hmm,

What can I say. Acoustat 2+2's were first introduced by the company in 1982. Naturally, they aren't manufactured anymore. I remember the first time I listened to them, couldn't afford them at the time, and literally drooled. Always swore I'd have a pair someday, and now I do. They are electrostatic panel speakers 8' feet in height by 20" inches wide and 3.5" inches thick. They weigh roughly 95 lbs. each. They are powered by Medallion Transformers located in the back of them. Don't let this fool you though, they still require a nice amount of power to achieve their best. That's why I have them bi-amped with two Adcom GFA-555's. The 2+2's have a frequency response of 28-20K Hz and a sound pressure level of 115db at 20' in a 15' x 24' room. Minimum power requirements are 50 watts per channel into 4 ohms. They're a bit more efficient than some of the other Acoustat models. The electrostatic panels are fairly bullet proof, it's the medallion transformers you have to watch out for. You just can' t readily replace much less get parts for these babies. But there's alot of mods people do to the transformers. They came with either black or white cloth coverings on the panels and various choices in base finish. Mine have black cloth and kind of look like the monolith from 2001. Thank God I have 8' foot ceilings too, because their height requirement can be a problematic. They really need to be in a room devoted to them.

Now for the best part the sound. Very detailed, they don't distort at all. As far as bottom end goes, well it doesn't shake the rafters, but rather jumps out at you and kind of grabs you in the guts. You do have the option of using a powered subwoofer with them, but I haven't opted for that yet because I had one in the past and got tired of my windows rattling. They like lots of power but on the preamp end, I like them with tubes because it tends to sweeten them up quite a bit. Bottom line is, wonderful wonderful speakers, if you can get beyond their size and power requirements. They never cease to amaze me with the various things I hear and continue to make me jump out of my chair !!!

Hope this answers your question.