This should please the anti-smokers...

[steveinaz]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/QuitToLive/story?id=1736744&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Get caught smoking ON YOUR PATIO in Calabasas, California and get fined. God Bless Amerika. We can't seem to control gangs, the Meth problem, or child molesters; but we'll get those cigarette smokers in line....

[ohskigod]

confusing wording, taken literally, "all outdoor patios" would mean your own patio on your property. But does that mean you can smoke on your own lawn, since it is not a sidewalk or public place?

not smokinh in your own backyard, is effin ridiculous, my disdain for smoking in public areas aside

[bvette94]

To me this is more about the revenue that they can collect from the fines and not so much the act of smoking. i am a non smoker and think this is a bs law. imo i think they should use the resources from enforcing this law towards exactly what steve said towards gangs, drug smugglers and child molesters etc. remember big brother is watching.

[ohskigod]

I have a feeling that the outdoor patio thing is for restaraunts that have patio's and whatnot. not your own patio. With the way its worded in the article I could be wrong though.

[steveinaz]

This is what intolerence gets us. Who's next I wonder?

[steveinaz]

I have a feeling that the outdoor patio thing is for restaraunts that have patio's and whatnot. not your own patio. With the way its worded in the article I could be wrong though.

On the news last night they stipulated that yes, it means your backyard patio as well. If you're smoking on your patio and your neighbor complains that he can smell your smoke, you will be fined.---ANY outdoor smoking is prohibited.

[Skynut]

It might just raise the property value.
A smoke free city in Cali?
All the healthy yuppies can move there and die a healthy death.

[steveinaz]

Let's hope they do. If the second hand smoke don't kill'm, the Mortgage will...hehe.

[ohskigod]

On the news last night they stipulated that yes, it means your backyard patio as well. If you're smoking on your patio and your neighbor complains that he can smell your smoke, you will be fined.---ANY outdoor smoking is prohibited.



WOW, telling me I cant do a legal thing in certain areas in the public domain is one thing, but my own back yard? that sux., Although its Cali, should any of us be surprised?

wouldnt move to that state for all the tea in China.

[jakelm]

There is a big question on second hand smoke. Many have "blammed" deaths on this second hand smoke , but not one case has "proven" that a human has died from second hand smoke. Suieing over a smell is absolutly rediculous. Does this mean that if your wearing a perfume or cologne that I dont like the smell of I can sue you? Or if you just out-right stink, can I sue you then? My car is running and your standing next to it, or your in the other driveway and you can smell my fumes, can you sue me for that? Or would you just move away? Some people are trying to pass a law that bars\nightclubs are to band smoking. This is outrageous and rediculous.

The first ammendment is turning out to be a big joke. We cant say or do things we like (that are leagal) because it might offend someone. Its just plain stupid.

Ohhh.. Pretty soon we cant build houses anymore because we have to save the trees. We we all have to live in metal or solid brick homes.

Another issue (while we are on the subject) is seat belts. If I want to indanger my life by not wearing a seatbelt, is my business. If I get in an accedent and I'm not wearing a seatbelt, what difference does it make to you or anyone I'm in the wreck with....NO DIFFERENCE.

The reason I mentioned seatbelts is because, I believe, this is where it all started. I will protect my own life as I see fit, I dont need anyone telling me how to protect it. If I want to eat greasy fatty burgers my whole life, its my right. If I want to smoke 3-4 packs of cigarettes, its my choice. If I want to drive and not wear a seatbelt, fly out a windshield and smash my brains into a tree or pole, it should be my right. If I want to voice my opinion about someone or something, I think I should be able to say it loud and proud. Not having to worry about being sued for everything I have because it "offends" someone.

But this is just me.....if you dont like the way I smell.....get the hell away.

Free means FREE nomatter how you say it or spell it, and one day I hope to be FREE!!!!

[Demiurge]

Careful, jakelm, you're starting to sound logical, and you're being a free thinker.

[jakelm]

Well Thank You, Demiurge. I appreciate the complement.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

You guys gotta remember this IS California we're talking about here...

[jakelm]

And in 10-20 years from now, we will all say "it all started in California"

[tonyb]

Careful, jakelm, you're starting to sound logical, and you're being a free thinker.

I thought that was banned on this forum.:eek: ;) ;)

[jakelm]

As long as you dont smoke in here........lol.. you can stay tony:D :D

And wear your seatbelt and smell good and live in metal or cement building and say the right things


ohhh...I'm sorry this isnt California......yet

[tonyb]

Can't wait till the big one comes and drop their sorry ass in the ocean.OOHH
wait,that will be"Bush's" fault too.If Cali was to....never mind ,they aint worth the effort.

[MacLeod]

This is just another reason the Soviet Socialists Republic of California needs to break off and sink into the ocean!

[jakelm]

Heyyy there are alot of good things that come out of Cali...

Like the wine and..uhmmm...the wine...and Oh yeah..the wine.

[Skynut]

I know we have some stupid laws but we also get some of the best weather and we have beautiful (cigarette butt littered) beaches.

You are not to far off on the perfume thing also. When I visit my doctors office there are signs that ask everyone to refrain from wearing perfume because it bothers some people.

I personally LOVE to smell a purdy women walk by.

[jakelm]

You are not to far off on the perfume thing also. When I visit my doctors office there are signs that ask everyone to refrain from wearing perfume because it bothers some people.
.


Are you serious Sky??? I was just saying. I would have never imagined a sign saying please refrain from wearing perfume. This is getting out of hand. IMO

[jakelm]

we have beautiful (cigarette butt littered) beaches.


Well thats a litter law inforcement problem. Not a smokers problem.

[markmarc]

In any other state, the state supreme court would strike that law down. But since it is CA, chances are only 1 in 3 of it being overturned.

As for the perfume, my wife suffers from sensitivity to perfume. It's not the single spray or two that bothers her, it's those that bath themselves in it by the keg. She has has lost $$$$ in lost wages from having a migraine triggered by those that don't understand that a little goes a long way. Finally, she left the corporate/office world for her own business.

[cfrizz]

There is a huge increase with upper respirtory problems these days. Asthma & allergies put quite a strain on the body.

A couple of years ago I asked to be moved because my co-workers perfume was making me ill! It was on her skin, her clothes, her coat, ect. ect. I reacted quite badly to it with runny nose, irritated throat & sinus headaches!

I tried nicely to tell her that it was bothering me & she just didn't give a damn. So I went to management & asked to be moved since this was have a negative effect on my physical health.

In the end they had her move her coat & she stopped wearing perfume. If they have to make a choice between someones health & productivity vs someone smelling good the person with the confirmed medical condition will win.

They are not about to risk a lawsuit over something so minor that can cost them thousands of dollars!

Are you serious Sky??? I was just saying. I would have never imagined a sign saying please refrain from wearing perfume. This is getting out of hand. IMO

[cfrizz]

BINGO!!!!! I can definately relate to your wife's predicament!

In any other state, the state supreme court would strike that law down. But since it is CA, chances are only 1 in 3 of it being overturned.

As for the perfume, my wife suffers from sensitivity to perfume. It's not the single spray or two that bothers her, it's those that bath themselves in it by the keg. She has has lost $$$$ in lost wages from having a migraine triggered by those that don't understand that a little goes a long way. Finally, she left the corporate/office world for her own business.

[Demiurge]

http://www.duq.edu/facultyhome/fredbortz/KidSciBooks/lindar.jpeg

[Skynut]

And thats the thing, for me I can not imagine a perfume smell causing physical problems. I know that it happens now but, if I didn't know more than one person I would just think they were being obnoxious for being bothered.

It sucks for people who are the underdog.

It's like the whole peanuts on the airline thing, I used to love to get peanuts but a couple of people sued and now we are stuck with pretzels. If I wanted pretzels I would have gone to a bar. I choose to fly for the peanuts.

[jakelm]

You guys points are very valid. But where does it end? You said it cfrizz "afraid to be sued". Thats the problem. Being able to sue for something like that is the problem. I dont like the way you look, I'll sue you. You have a wart on your nose and it makes me feel queezy, I'll sue you. You stink and it gives me a head ache, I'll sue you. It gets out of hand.


Its getting to be like we are children again "mama, he's looking at me again, punish him, 'son, quit looking at her or I will punish you' ". Now that we all know the son shouldnt get punished, be he does, just to shut the little girl up. Thats not right!!

[cfrizz]

My brother is deathly allergic to nuts, except peanuts. But people have died due to peanut allergies. & other nuts.

[cfrizz]

I'm sorry you feel that way Jake, but the fact remains that I have a physical documented medical problem with records to prove it. If I end up in the hospital with a severe allergic reaction, or pass out at work due to a sinus headache, etc. & the company was well aware that I had this problem & did nothing about it. I'M GOING TO SUE THEIR DAMN ASSES OFF. They would lose! They are obligated to provide a safe working enviorment.

This is about peoples physical well being I'm not a hypochondriac, I do everything possible to keep my allergies under control to prevent more serious URI from taking hold that could potentially kill me.

I don't know where it will end. All I can do is respect other people the way I respect myself.


You guys points are very valid. But where does it end? You said it cfrizz "afraid to be sued". Thats the problem. Being able to sue for something like that is the problem. I dont like the way you look, I'll sue you. You have a wart on your nose and it makes me feel queezy, I'll sue you. You stink and it gives me a head ache, I'll sue you. It gets out of hand.


Its getting to be like we are children again "mama, he's looking at me again, punish him, 'son, quit looking at her or I will punish you' ". Now that we all know the son shouldnt get punished, be he does, just to shut the little girl up. Thats not right!!

[Skynut]

I feel like the USA is sue happy.
My take is this (enter the mind of sky) when a lawyer takes a case and wants to sue on behalf of the imigrant that could not read the "Watch dog on duty" sign or, on behalf of the burglar that broke his neck falling through the skylight, if he looses that case he should pay restitution to the party being sued.
If the lawyer has anything to loose he/she will reconsider which cases they will take.

I was involved in a lawsuit (witness) and I heard one of the lawyers response to the question of "why are there 150 john does listed"
(They list john doe so they can add anyone they feel they can connect to the case.)

His reply was "I may have to kiss alot of frogs but I only need one to be a prince".
Meaning that if one of the john does has deep pockets then he is a winner.

[heiney9]

Ok I admit being a non-smoker I get rather annoyed by careless smokers. Careless smokers are people who have no regard for other people and are basically rude about where and when they smoke. I have several friends who smoke and they are somewhat aware of how if affects others in a public setting and try to be courteous.

This law is really ludicris to prevent people from smoking on their own property. I will say where this can be a real issue is if you live in a multi-level apartment like I used to. I was on the middle floor and all the units had their own deck area off the back. It used to infuriate me in the summer when the people below or above me sat on their deck and chain smoked. All that smoke would rise up into my apartment and I had to close all the windows and patio door constantly to keep the smoke from coming into my apartment. Where do my rights begin and their rights end? It's a tough question. I shouldn't have to close up my home. And they shouldn't have to have a designated smoking area on their own patio. It was a real problem that I had no other solution than to shut all my windows, etc.

I know when I go out to the bars that I am in a public place that has smokers in it. That's a conscious choice on my part and I'm willling to endure smoke to be there, it's my choice. I don't however, want to ingest smoke when I'm out for a nice meal, or in the work place, or have to walk thru a cloud of smoke outside business's I frequent. It's a fine line and far too many people are inconsiderate on both sides so that's why laws (stupid laws) are passed.

H9

[jakelm]

There are exceptions to what I say, some people do have alergic reactions. But the majority wants either money, recognition, or just the fact they dont like it and want to show that they can get it changed and think they know whats good for you and me.

Sometimes the other person just has to get away, because the one person has the right to wear perfume. Thats the way I feel.

"Baby, sweetheart, your job is getting you sick, then lets go find you another job". Not change the people who work there to acomodate you and the boss man gets scared that he and the company might get sued. Because one lady's perfume was alittle strong. So here we are, walking on egg shells afraid for the fact that if we upset anyone or give someone a cold we could get sued. I go to work with a runny nose then the person who works next to me gets a runny nose and sues me. And the funny thing is, thats excepted in this free society. Some people would accually look at my like I commited murder. "How dare you give that other person a cold, you terrible terrible man", they would say.

Come on..GIVE ME A BREAK

[jakelm]

cfrizz...THE COMPANY OWES YOU NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially if it only effect you. If your the only one in the work place to catch a cold because the A\c is to cold, or perfume was too strong, YOUR ON YOUR OWN BUDDY

You obviously dont understand this.

[cfrizz]

YOU are the one that doesn't understand. The company is NOT going to let a good worker risk suing them for a HEALTH RELATED ISSUE that can be easily solved. Everyone ends up losing in the end.

I'm not trying to rip anyone off, I am simply trying to protect MY HEALTH. She can wear her perfume to her hearts content outside of the company.

I am not the one that put work laws into existance. You have a problem with them go tell it to OSHA!

[heiney9]

And thats the thing, for me I can not imagine a perfume smell causing physical problems. I know that it happens now but, if I didn't know more than one person I would just think they were being obnoxious for being bothered.

It sucks for people who are the underdog.

It's like the whole peanuts on the airline thing, I used to love to get peanuts but a couple of people sued and now we are stuck with pretzels. If I wanted pretzels I would have gone to a bar. I choose to fly for the peanuts.

Well Sky, believe of not I have a very sensitive "ol factory" and many smells like too much perfume and cologne actually cause headaches, runny nose and constant sneezing. It's an irritant for me and it's an inconvienence. It's never impeded my work or caused those kinds of problems, but it does happen and can be quite an ordeal for some people. I can't read magazines with those perfume inserts and if I'm in heavy stop and go traffic I usually get a nasty headache from exhaust fumes. It's a real PITA to deal with, but what can I do. It seems my hearing, taste and smell are ultra sensitive. It has good and bad results and I'd rather be overly sensitive then under sensitive.

I love peanuts :D

H9

[jakelm]

There you are again cfrizz....SUE SUE SUE

Protect you health and MOOOOOOVE!!!!!!


Lets sue McDonalds for giving us high blood preassure. Oh wait thats already happened.

Lets sue the resturaunt or business for not installing a $20,000 airpurifyer and a micro peice of pollen went in my nose and gave me a cold.

Or better yet, lets sue the guy next to me because he breathed his germs in "my" air.

Look..I understand your point. I just dont agree with it. You wont sue me will you?? For not agreeing and getting your blood preassure higher and shortining your life a few days. You wont sue me for that will you?

[cfrizz]

What a lot of people can't seem to understand is that those of us who suffer from these things have absolutely NO control over it. We didn't ask for it but we are stuck with it!

I hate having allergies I hate taking meds year round to keep them under control. I hate that I have to ask someone to stop wearing perfume, but I hate being sick even more!

I hate the fact that if I didn't control my allergies, that I could end up with asthma which can kill you! As it is I am more susecptible to sinus infections & bronchiatis because of my allergies. I HATE TAKING ANTIBIOTICS!

But there is nothing that I can do about any of it, except to control my envioronment as best I can & to take care of myself.

[cfrizz]

No I'm just going to put you on ignore. Cause your stupidity is only exceeded by your ignorance.

I'm not going to give up MY job over a damn perfume! And obviously my company agreed with my view point.

I didn't threaten to sue them, but they knew what the consequences could be if I had a physical collapse that could have been totally avoided with a small bit of proactive measure. There was no place else that they could move me at the time since space is tight & we are practically working on top of one another as it is!

If you should ever come down with allergies you will have a much better understanding of what others live with.

Until then....

You're not worth it!

[neomagus00]

jakelm, it's not like people can just randomly give up a job because a coworker pisses them off... it's a question of balance... on cfrizz's side, she's getting awful headaches etc., and to rectify it she could get a new job... on her coworker's side, she recieves NO benefit from the excessive perfume, and all she has to do is freaking wear less of it...

cfrizz is entitled to be able to breathe properly at her job, especially when there's no cost to anyone else for her to be able to do so... it's really not that big a deal, to wear one or two spritzes less of perfume... hell, she doesn't even have to do that, even moving thirty feet away will rectify the problem... again, it's a cost vs. benefit thing... you know, economics?

[F1nut]

Land of the free, my arse!

They tried this same crap in an area of DC, Friendship Heights to be exact. It failed because it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

[Demiurge]

Jakelm, don't worry, you're 100% right. These people lack common sense. They act as though people are trying to hurt them, or inconvenience them. Good grief, it's part of life, you deal with it. Then they think if an accident happens they have a right to sue you. What a joke -- last I checked the word accident had meaning, you know....something not done to cause harm purposefully. So you have an ailment, BE CAREFUL THEN!

It's okay, they're the same ones bitching about auto, health, life, dental, and every damn other kind of insurance. They don't understand that the money they take from others by suing them just ends up coming out of everyone elses pockets. Hear no evil, see no evil. :rolleyes:

[markmarc]

It all comes down to common decency and respect. Nobody needs to apply more than a spritz or two of perfume. Until you have lived with a person with allergies of this type you have no idea. Plus, the costs to a business in lost worker productivity is a big issue, just ask the HR department officer.

Cfrizz and Neomagus00 understand the balance and the realities of the workplace. It's all about moderation. Afterall, every perfume bottle trigger only sprays a small amount, WHY? because a little goes a long way. 99% of perfume/after shave users understand this, it's the 1% that doesn't that in reality, that need to be "re-educated".

[Drumingman]

Farting in the workplace annoys me!

[neomagus00]

and the difference there is that farting is a natural thing that can't be controlled, and isn't constant, and doesn't activate allergies... there are some people with uncontrollable farting (seriously, it's a medical condition), and if you happen to be bothered enough by this in the workplace, it should be a relatively easy matter to swap you to a new cube... no one needs to get fired or given a lethal injection or whatever... common sense applies, it's not always that the underdog wins, that's not the point...

[PolkThug]

We lose freedom every day.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060322/us_nm/bars_dc

[F1nut]

Farting may be natural, but some of those farts can be un-natural. I knew a guy who cleared out an entire store by just being natural. :eek:

[neomagus00]

okay, that texas thing is bloody ridiculous... you've all seen minority report, this is exactly the same thing... predestination is crap, how can you possibly be arrested because you MIGHT do something illegal?

[F1nut]

Scary days are here now and ahead. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

[shack]

how can you possibly be arrested because you MIGHT do something illegal?
Did I miss the part where they ruled public intoxication is no longer illegal? A bar/restaurant is a public place...right?

[F1nut]

Not really, they are a private business. A public place would be more like a city owned park or some such.

[Shizelbs]

They should arrest strippers for being naked in public too then.

[shack]

Not really, they are a private business. A public place would be more like a city owned park or some such.

Sorry, that's not the way the law's are interpreted...

1. Criminal law -- public intoxication -- definition of "public place" speaks only in terms of accessibility., The term "public place" is defined as "a publicly or privately owned place to which the public or substantial numbers of people have access"; the definition speaks only in terms of accessibility, not visibility.

2. Criminal law -- public intoxication -- pickup truck parked in side yard of private residence was not place to which public had access -- appellant's drinking-in-public conviction reversed and dismissed. -- Where it was undisputed that appellant was attending a private party at a privately owned residence and was drinking a beer while seated on the tailgate of a pickup truck that was parked in the side yard of the residence, the supreme court could not agree that this was a place to which the public or substantial numbers of people had access; the supreme court, holding that the trial court erred in failing to dismiss appellant's case, reversed and dismissed appellant's drinking-in-public conviction.

They should arrest strippers for being naked in public too then..

In many places they do....

[bobman1235]

So, shack, you actually agree with a law that says people should not allowed to be DRUNK in BARS? Some of us are responsible (I would even venture to say MOST of us), have a designated driver / cab / walk home, and don't try to jump off of our roofs into our pools. Besides, the latter wouldn't be helped by people drinking in their private residences, unless you want prohibition.

[shack]

I did not state an opinion....just the law.

[PolkThug]

Scary days are here now and ahead. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

Yep, check this out:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/14155275.htm?source=yahoodist&content=ksc_news

[bobman1235]

I did not state an opinion....just the law.

That's fine, and true, but I think the problem with a lot of laws is they're followed to the letter rather than the spirit. For example, if every person in every office pool in America was cited for illegal gambling, it would be following the letter of the law, but also be ridiculous. This new enforcement is following the letter of the law, but the point of a bar is INTOXICATION (to a reasonble extent of course).

[Skynut]

Yep, check this out:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/14155275.htm?source=yahoodist&content=ksc_news


Exactly. This is an instance where the laws changed without our knowledge. If you refuse to provide a fingerprint my guess is they will take your license and arrest you. (which gives them your prints)

As for the alergies I feel for you that you have these problems and it bothers me if they interfere with my life.
I mean I am not the type to continue to do something that affects another adversly but where does it end?
You don't want me to wear cologne and the boy in the bubble wants to be allowed to work in a germ free office without his bubble. How far are you willing to go to accomodate the boy in the bubble? Will you show up for work and go through a decontamination station? How about if all cubicles are bubbles with their own circulation systems so bubble boy can feel like he belongs?

Where does it end?

This is not an attack on anyone with allergies so don't read it wrong, I have known a few people with sensitivities to smoke, perfume, and various other allergies and I know they are real for you but, they do not directly effect the majority of people. When the majority of people have to change their normal life to accomodate your normal life it just does not seem fair to the majority.

[shack]

When the majority of people have to change their normal life to accomodate your normal life it just does not seem fair to the majority.
Be careful here. You may just be making a case for the non-smokers...as they are in the vast majority. Only 22% of all adult US residents are smokers.

[Strong Bad]

This is just another reason the Soviet Socialists Republic of California needs to break off and sink into the ocean!

Maybe we should have Lex Luthor drop a nuke on the San Andreas and watch California slide into the ocean. Just make sure Superman doesn't stop it this time. :D

Seriously, what the f*** is next! Dumbass laws. Nothing more constructive to do with their law making powers.

[PolkThug]

When the majority of people have to change their normal life to accomodate your normal life it just does not seem fair to the majority.

"fair" lol.

Theres a big difference between germs/pollen floating around and somebody lighting something on fire next to me.

[F1nut]

Steve, interesting and I stand corrected.

[BIZILL]

simple solution. eventually california will be a haven for the weak. terrorists need a simple target. them weinies already pretty much did away with arms. they are defenseless. soon, they will ban military bases from their fair state. wide open for attack. goodbye, my fellow americans. actually, i would never wish for that to happen, but that's where it's headed.

californians will be begging we arizonans to protect their arses. and we will.

[brettw22]

Those that suffer from the 'I want my ways to rule everyone elses lives' mentality need to take a swim with concrete blocks attached to your feet.

An office environment is an enclosed space, so it's automatically a different environment than what is the outside world (thus OSHA).

I'm ok with people being arrested at bars, but only if the cops are in the parking lots and checking out how people are leaving. If someone well over the legal limit is about to drive off, grab em. If that saves one life, it's worth it.

I personally don't have a problem with the fingerprinting thing. They started doing that in AZ I think a few years ago (that Sherriff Joe does more crazy shit than many probably know). The fact is that it's a quicker identification option and really, if you haven't been doing anything wrong, why does it matter?

[Skynut]

Cali has a bunch of whining lightweights that make or agree with the lame laws however, if you look at the majority of the state in terms of "regular joes" you would see there are still plenty of us here and many of us have the means to defend ourselves from enimies both foreign and domestic.:D

We also (curently) have plenty millitary presence to be the first line of defence for the countries left side.:cool:

On the other hand we are the best target for N. korea.:mad:

As for the fingerprint thing, I did not want to have a magnetic stripe on my license let alone give them the right to fingerprint me whenever they feel like it.

I DO NOT TRUST OUR GOVERNMENT to do the right thing by it's citizens, they have historicaly done what is in the best intrest of their pocketbooks and I believe they will continue to do so until we the people have the ability to force them to stop.

This goes back to Steves last thread about what or who is next.
One step at a time they will infringe on our rights because people say "it doesn't effect me" and "if you obey the law it shouldn't bother you"

Mark my words and bookmark this thread when I say that this mentality will lead to unimaginable consequences for people who refused to see it comming.

Someday in our lifetime the govt. will figure out how much money they can make if every car had an automatic tracking device (like onstar) that will automatically issue a ticket to the cars owner whenever it exceeds a speed limit, does't come to a complete stop, makes an unsafe lane change or follows too close. Or perhaps because you have not had it serviced for an extended period of time.
What if your significant other could pull up your record and see everywhere you have been and what time you were there? It shouldn't matter if you don't do anything wrong.
None of it should effect anyone but the law breakers.
After all none of us ever exceed the speed limit even for a brief moment.

[PolkThug]

Someday in our lifetime the govt. will figure out how much money they can make if every car had an automatic tracking device (like onstar) that will automatically issue a ticket to the cars owner whenever it exceeds a speed limit, does't come to a complete stop, makes an unsafe lane change or follows too close. Or perhaps because you have not had it serviced for an extended period of time.

I've thought about that also. If insurance companies continue to get their way, it will slowly happen.

[bobman1235]

I'm ok with people being arrested at bars, but only if the cops are in the parking lots and checking out how people are leaving. If someone well over the legal limit is about to drive off, grab em. If that saves one life, it's worth it.

I personally don't have a problem with the fingerprinting thing. They started doing that in AZ I think a few years ago (that Sherriff Joe does more crazy shit than many probably know). The fact is that it's a quicker identification option and really, if you haven't been doing anything wrong, why does it matter?

I'll agree with both of these. Ther'es a big difference between stopping someone as they get behind the wheel outside a bar and going INTO the bar and just arresting someone for being "drunk in public". Huge difference.

As for the fingerprint thing... I don't really see the difference between running your license or your fingerprint. I'ts just an identification tool, isn't it? Unless you're using a fake license, which is a felony last I checked, they would bring up identical information.

[heiney9]

Where does it end?

This is not an attack on anyone with allergies so don't read it wrong, I have known a few people with sensitivities to smoke, perfume, and various other allergies and I know they are real for you but, they do not directly effect the majority of people. When the majority of people have to change their normal life to accomodate your normal life it just does not seem fair to the majority.

Sky, just for fun let's take your POV to the extreme. Handicapped people make up a very small percentage of the population so why make accomodations for them. Usually there may only be 1 handicapped person working in an office. Let them fend for themselves why make changes that will change the normal life of everyone else? I know it's the law now, but at one time it wasn't.

Yes, it's an extreme example but the principle is exactly the same . Workplace accomodations are part of the working environment for both employer and employee. If there is a situation that arises and it's a problem for just one person, steps need to be taken. That doesn't mean either one side or the other has to make all the consessions; it means things need to be worked out to an appropriate solution. Do some people take advantage of this? Yes, absolutely.

H9

[Skynut]

I actually agree with you heiny, I am mearly asking where it ends?
If a person is wearing a lot of perfume or cologne and I like the smell it is fine but if the smell is not one I like it bothers me.
I have been on elevators with people who thought they smelled good and I couldn't wait to get off but, if it is a hottie and I like the smell I will get in close and just bask in it. (I know I'm a perv)

But if I had to go through a scrub down on my way into the office for bubble boy to work outside his bubble that would irritate me.

The handicap parking and ramps are ok with me but the fact that they (handicap people) can sue me if they can not get into my building without an effort pisses me off. I am sorry you have no legs or can not walk but for you to expect the entire world to be prepared for your visit is ridiculous.
If you can do the job then great I will hire you and make sure that you do not have problems but in my 13 years with my present company we have NEVER had one wheelchair arrive. We have ramps to the building and rails in our john in anticipation for their visit so we are not sued when they finally show up but so far no one in a chair has cared to visit us.

I read about a person once that was sueing a buisness for not haveing a ramp. After further investigation they were found to have several lawsuit going for the same reason and also had no business being at that buisness anyway.

[Demiurge]

Sky, just for fun let's take your POV to the extreme. Handicapped people make up a very small percentage of the population so why make accomodations for them. Usually there may only be 1 handicapped person working in an office. Let them fend for themselves why make changes that will change the normal life of everyone else? I know it's the law now, but at one time it wasn't.

Yes, it's an extreme example but the principle is exactly the same . Workplace accomodations are part of the working environment for both employer and employee. If there is a situation that arises and it's a problem for just one person, steps need to be taken. That doesn't mean either one side or the other has to make all the consessions; it means things need to be worked out to an appropriate solution. Do some people take advantage of this? Yes, absolutely.

H9

So what? The big lie out there is that the businesses wouldn't do it on their own. The world isn't full of solely cold hearted bastards that wouldn't make accomodations for a handicapped person, I'm sure we all have had contact with people who needed special care, and we help them. Forcing businesses to spend thousands of dollars for something that will likely never be used is an abuse of government. There is nothing extreme about it. If someone didn't want to make it easy, you patronize another business or work somewhere else. I don't know what makes people think they are entitled to everything. The free market works wonders, try it sometime.

[steveinaz]

man, can I stir up some shit or what?

[heiney9]

man, can I stir up some shit or what?

Yes you sure can.......are you on the move Steve? You keep changing your location. Are you afraid we might hunt you down stomp on your cigarette? :p Us non-smokers are such bad-asses you know :D .

H9

[F1nut]

Of note:

St. Paul City Hall Bans Easter Bunny

ST. PAUL, Minn. (March 23) - The Easter Bunny has been sent packing at St. Paul City Hall.

St. Paul City Hall removed a toy rabbit and pastel-colored eggs like the ones above in order to not offend non-Christians. One councilmember said he didn't get why they couldn't celebrate spring with "bunnies and fake grass."

A toy rabbit, pastel-colored eggs and a sign with the words "Happy Easter" were removed from the lobby of the City Council offices, because of concerns they might offend non-Christians. A council secretary had put up the decorations. They were not bought with city money. St. Paul's human rights director, Tyrone Terrill, asked that the decorations be removed, saying they could be offensive to non-Christians. But City Council member Dave Thune says removing the decorations went too far, and he wonders why they can't celebrate spring with "bunnies and fake grass."

3/23/2006 09:32:34
Jose M. Osorio, Sacramento Bee / ZUMA Press

I fart on Tyrone Terrill, what a PUTZ!!!

[heiney9]

Of note:

St. Paul City Hall Bans Easter Bunny

ST. PAUL, Minn. (March 23) - The Easter Bunny has been sent packing at St. Paul City Hall.

St. Paul City Hall removed a toy rabbit and pastel-colored eggs like the ones above in order to not offend non-Christians. One councilmember said he didn't get why they couldn't celebrate spring with "bunnies and fake grass."

A toy rabbit, pastel-colored eggs and a sign with the words "Happy Easter" were removed from the lobby of the City Council offices, because of concerns they might offend non-Christians. A council secretary had put up the decorations. They were not bought with city money. St. Paul's human rights director, Tyrone Terrill, asked that the decorations be removed, saying they could be offensive to non-Christians. But City Council member Dave Thune says removing the decorations went too far, and he wonders why they can't celebrate spring with "bunnies and fake grass."

3/23/2006 09:32:34
Jose M. Osorio, Sacramento Bee / ZUMA Press

I fart on Tyrone Terrill, what a PUTZ!!!

Christ........(oops sorry to offend those religious) I swear the world is coming to an end. I'm seriously considering dis-connecting myself from any type of news reporting agency. I am so glad I was a kid when I was a kid. Society is so 'effd up. Lately it always seems to be at one extreme or the other. Where's the common ground and common sense.

It 'effing offends me that they are offended by the Easter Bunny. What are the courts gonna do for me? I want to see an Easter Bunny, an Easter scene when I go to the mall. I'm a Christian and it's my right to view these things where and when I've always viewed them...

Damn........I gotta stop here, I'm gonna blow a gasket.

H9

[Demiurge]

Of note:

St. Paul City Hall Bans Easter Bunny

ST. PAUL, Minn. (March 23) - The Easter Bunny has been sent packing at St. Paul City Hall.

St. Paul City Hall removed a toy rabbit and pastel-colored eggs like the ones above in order to not offend non-Christians. One councilmember said he didn't get why they couldn't celebrate spring with "bunnies and fake grass."

A toy rabbit, pastel-colored eggs and a sign with the words "Happy Easter" were removed from the lobby of the City Council offices, because of concerns they might offend non-Christians. A council secretary had put up the decorations. They were not bought with city money. St. Paul's human rights director, Tyrone Terrill, asked that the decorations be removed, saying they could be offensive to non-Christians. But City Council member Dave Thune says removing the decorations went too far, and he wonders why they can't celebrate spring with "bunnies and fake grass."

3/23/2006 09:32:34
Jose M. Osorio, Sacramento Bee / ZUMA Press

I fart on Tyrone Terrill, what a PUTZ!!!

Do you see the irony here? What's the name of the city? ST. PAUL!!!!!!!!

[heiney9]

Do you see the irony here? What's the name of the city? ST. PAUL!!!!!!!!

I guarantee if Jesse Ventura was still the Govenor he'd whoop those peoples a$$es for trying to take that stuff down. Minnesota isn't usually this conservative. They are a pretty tolerable, common sense state. This really suprises me. I guess all it takes is one pr*ck of a politician to get a bug up his a$$.

H9

[Demiurge]

Minnesota isn't usually this conservative. They are a pretty tolerable, common sense state.

Minnesota is quite liberal, and this is a liberal move. It isn't the conservative movement trying to get God wiped out of society.

[brettw22]

Forcing businesses to spend thousands of dollars for something that will likely never be used is an abuse of government.Those bars in the bathroom are GREAT for leverage......

[Skynut]

It is all part of the big plan.
Somewhere in the world two people are causing all this change.
Soon we will not be bothered by Christmas music and toy comercials on television around "the holidays"
We will instead be forced to endure the holidays of all the other countries.

Ever noticed that firecrackers are illegal on the Fourth of July for most of us (at least here in cali where we might hurt ourselves or others) but the chinese get to have a field day for their new years celebration?
How does that work?
In some places we are not even allowed to celebrate with fireworks. What happend to the rockets red glare and bombs bursting in air?

[Skynut]

Minnesota is quite liberal, and this is a liberal move. It isn't the conservative movement trying to get God wiped out of society.

I believe you will find the wipe out of God to be on the liberal agenda.

[steveinaz]

In a similar attempt, some members of the city of Las Cruces, New Mexico wanted the "3 Crucifixes" removed from the entrance of the city---the city's namesake...

How about be remove the people instead?

[steveinaz]

Get Out And Vote Folk's. That's How You Make Our Unheard Majority Heard. See You At The Polls.

My whole point to the Rant smoking thread was to get people to realize that you need to be careful about who you pick on, and the consequences of your actions that restrict others from doing things that you don't like. You could be the next "group" that gets restricted.

[reeltrouble1]

There are so many hot button issues in here. Well, at least we have the forum to get them out. Very serious things are happening. I can at least address LEO issues. The problem is not the legitimate initial use of govt. collected information. Its that much of the info the govt. gets can get classified as public information or need to know ok dokie. Think about your SS# that was supposed to be for you and is under the privacy act, but how many people have that little gem of a number that belongs to you. Your drivers lisence number forget about it. I have seen how the Pat. Act is taught to LEO's and how it can used to fit situations that you would worry about whether you break the law or not. I worry about this Act, I am not the only one but it is law. LEO's are sworn to enforce the law.

We are not a nation of men. We are a nation of law. The founding fathers tried to anticipate this, they could not however, anticipate the kind of technology we have. Men are greedy, have their own personal agenda's, think of the Ollieguard sp? in Russia. The problem I see is the manipulative special interest attack's on freedom's generated by fear, thereby developing a new interpretation or different interpretation of the constitution, there is much debate in this arena being done by folks far more powerful and hopefully, more knowledgeable than I. Our nation and the world are standing at a crossroads, I suppose, in a way its nothing new, just bigger, with more potential for death and destruction, its mostly about power and money, gee, nothing new in those concepts. Not my favorite topics.

The right to pursue "happiness" is concept well framed by law, however, what makes you happy can be diametrically opposed to some one else's happiness, i.e. my right to smoke vs my right to breath clean air. I know most air is no longer clean, but then thats about money and once again happiness.

Our business leaders have finely tuned a system to protect their interests despite any particular political parties holding of offices. Remember, a this given. The people at the top of any system have an inherent interest in maintianing that system. Its a mess, I find solace in my family and beautiful music along with some other things, I vote, write letters which change little but make me feel better.

RT1

[Demiurge]

Those bars in the bathroom are GREAT for leverage......

HAHA, like the 2 cheerleaders for Carolina? ;)

[brettw22]

HAHA, like the 2 cheerleaders for Carolina? ;)Um.......ya......for that too........lol

[Skynut]

The problem as I see it is that throughout history the people in power fight to get more power and more money. They continually crap on the little people because the little people have no power against it. Eventually (as proven through history) the little people get fed up and revolt to re-gain some say in the events that shape their lives. This has happened throughout history with Kings and oligarks (sp) and the people end up killing off the power holders for a chance to better their own lives.
We are now in a world economy and if our leaders continue to rape us eventually there will be no other solution but to take the power back. This will not be easy and will have a negative impact on the entire world.

Eventually we will all hold our fist in the air and yell off with their heads in response to "let them eat cake"

[neomagus00]

^^ why do you think the second amendment is under such attack? it's basically the only right we have that guarantees our ability to overthrow the government, if necessary (mentioned either in Declaration or Constitution, i don't remember)

[Ron-P]

the state of California labeled secondhand smoke a toxic air contaminant just like car exhaust or industrial emissions.
According to this kind of logic and comparison we should then shut down all industrial plants and not drive cars.

[Skynut]

According to this kind of logic and comparison we should then shut down all industrial plants and not drive cars.


only the ones in public or our backyards.:D

[Shizelbs]

The Seattle Times has a nice article on how the ban of smoking in public places in the State has forced business to close, lay off employees, and ponder suicide.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002936775_smoking17m.html

[brettw22]

Can the bars not become private and sell memberships (maybe as a membership fee, give a carton of cigarettes as a welcome gift), but everyone who comes in has to be a member or with a member?

Wouldn't that be allowed to get around this thing? you could create a warehouse sized bar and you'd make millions on that idea that it's not open to the public.

[Skynut]

Great idea brett, a smokers club. You could incorporate bars, restraunts, and night clubs into a co-op with membership dues.
You could even go as far as to charter smoking planes for vacations.

Someone is going to do it and get rich on our idea.


Oops did I say our? I of course meant your idea. :D

[shack]

The Seattle Times has a nice article on how the ban of smoking in public places in the State has forced business to close, lay off employees, and ponder suicide

Seems a little overdramatic.

"I just want to run out into traffic one day and say, 'Hit me; put me out of my misery,' " Kerns said.
This is hardly "pondering suicide"...more like a "catchy phrase". It appears there are some businesses that have benefited from the change as well.