LSi are so power hungry!

[organ]

Well, I decided to connect my LSi9 to the system tonight because I want to get up close and personal with some female vocalists. Anyways, my pre have fixed positions on the volume pot. My Klipsch "wakes up" even at the first click on the dial. Well, the LSi9 doesn't wake up until I get to the fourth position! That's just nuts. They sound dull and lifeless before the fourth position.

This got me into research mode. Looked around the net and so far found a Krell int(I think the model # have 400 or something). Sounds like the right unit for my LSi because I don't want to hook up warm sounding equipment to them. I always sit there and wonder when I'll be able to fully enjoy my LSi9. Sure, they sound great now but I know they can do much better. I plan to go big when the time and $ comes.

OK, LSi owners, what are you having great success driving your LSi speakers with? I'm very interested in hearing opinions on Krell, Musical Fidelity, Bryston, Rotel and any other monster amps.

Maurice

[Early B.]

A couple of years ago I was powering a set of Lsi7's with an Odyssey Stratos amp and a MF Pre. Pure power and incredible detail.

[organ]

Oops, forgot to add. I'm more interested in an int amp. I'd probably pick up the matching source as well (CDP). I just want to go big and be done with it for the LSi rig. My limit is $5k for both source and int.

When I get married, and the wife don't want big Klipsch speakers and hot glowing tubes everywhere, the LSi rig will be my system. No woman will say no to the beauty of the LSi9.

[audiobliss]

What are you planning on doing with the Klispch at that point? Storage? Give-away? :D

[organ]

Early,
Ah, there'a another one to add to my list. Never really paid attention to Odyssey before. Gonna have to check them out. MF looks awesome and is up there on my list because they give a neutral sound presentation. I'm looking for neutral to match the LSi.

[organ]

What are you planning on doing with the Klispch at that point? Storage? Give-away? :D

LOL:D This is where it gets interesting. I can store them away for a while and sloooooooooowly sneak them in one by one, James Bond style:). But I gotta say, no horn speakers or tubes can beat the power of love, baby!

[polkatese]

Maurice,
I have a Krell 400xi integrated (double up to 400 watts/ch at 4 ohms), based on the recommendation from Paul (Pjdami)

I am using it to drive LSi15 on two channels setup. Very good match. You'll like it, give them a try. Audiogon used is around $1800, msrp $2500.

[Early B.]

Oops, forgot to add. I'm more interested in an int amp. I'd probably pick up the matching source as well (CDP).

OK, then, go with MF. That would be my first choice if I ever went back to SS.

[organ]

Polkatese,
Ah! That's the unit I was talking about. All the reviews I've read mentioned this unit as being neutral with no warmth. That's perfect for the LSi because the speakers are very warm naturally. Thanks for the heads up. I've already started saving up. I'm still open to other suggestions.

[organ]

So far MF and Krell are on the top of my list. It will be quite a while before I get the system but I need to start my research early and I'm sure by the time I'm ready to buy, I can get used units at a great price.

I'm listening to the LSi9 right now and they're so nice. Very relaxed and laid back. It's good to get the 9's up and singing once in a while. They're the complete opposite of Klipsch.

[LuSh]

I used a SimAudio i-5080 for 2years untill after January. I had been to Vega's for the CES and stumbled upon the Krell/Runco room. I liked the Krell house sound alot. I contacted alot of people I trust and have met via Audiogon. Even though I was directed to a Krell 500i because it was quite simply a beast, I got nervous because of the cold sound Krell was famous for in the 90's.

I opted instead for the current Krell 400xi. It simply crushed my previous SimAudio in every area. I'm not joking, this thing has balls to the walls type of bass handling. Dynamic's and more importantly CONTROL. The background is VERY black as well. While it doesn't color or coat the music like some intergrated's it gives you an honest straight up answer to what ever your source is feeding it. This Krell is supposedly alot more musical then older models like the 300 and 500i. The designer of my DAC and transport is a fan of Krell's new house sound with their pre's and power amp's. I understand what he mean's they don't hide anything further up the chain. You'll hear source changes very quickly on this amp.

I just upgraded the PC to a Blue Circle BC62 today. A slight improvement with a blacker background, but rolled off high's. It's changed, but I'm not convinced for the better as of yet. We'll see.

[Zero]

A good receipe with the LSi's would be the 'dry and clean' approach; ala Krell showcase, Bryston, Boulder, Marsh - I am not going to expand more because Lush summed up what would happen if you go for any of the following equipment on the lsi's.

[polkatese]

I have mine for over a year now, and has been able to put upgraditis at bay. Here are the winning combo: MIT, Krell, Rel, LSi.

Btw, Krell don't like Tubes. It hums like crazy....

[pjdami]

As far as solid state integrateds, the Krell 400xi is about the best I've heard under $2,500. I thought it murdered the Plinius 9200 head to head. I've had mine for well over a year now and no reason to upgrade anything in the Dynaudio rig.

Stand-alone amp (bypass mode) with the Krell yes mine hums too with a tube pre.

Integrated amp with a tube source (mod-Jolida cdp) no hum and sounds great.

[polkatese]

Hey Paul,

That's what I meant, thanks for clarifying. Krell integrated DON'T like tube pre-amp.

How things?

[wingnut4772]

Well I am not an expert by any means but my Eartquake Cinenova SS has plenty of power for the LSis and sounds really sweet for music.

[tryrrthg]

MF A5 int amp (http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mf/en/Products/A5/a5_integrated) and MF A5 CDP (http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mf/en/Products/A5/a5_cd) would be a nice combo to look at. I heard them paired with some Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor's and it was pretty sweet. I love the looks of the A5 stuff too.

[organ]

Lush,
Thank you so much for the informative post. That's exactly what I wanted to hear.

Sean,
I gotta admit, I have a little fetish for Bryston. Every time I walk into this audio shop near my work place, I always have to touch and run my fingers across the face plate of the 4BST. That's a thing of beauty. The most solid piece of equipment I've come across. Haven't seen MF or Krell in person yet.

Polkatese,
It's all good. I plan to go SS from source to amplification for the LSi9. You tubeheads better not hurt me;).

Paul,
Long time no see. Glad to hear the Krell is working out for you. Are you planning to update your system showcase with the new gear?

Wingnut,
That's another one I have to take a look at. I thought this thread was going to narrow down my options but damn, you guys are giving me brands I've never heard of. Thanks;). I'll check them out.

Tryr,
That's cool. So far, Krell and MF are my choice. I plan to go used, so whichever one I come across first or whichever one I can get cheaper will be it. This is going to be a very interesting journey.

Thanks again for all the help, guys.

[unc2701]

I agree on the A5 MF recommendation. You should be able to come in well under $4000 for the integrated & CD and it's a great combo. Also, back to the original issue: The RF-35's are 98db efficient. The LSi9's are like 88-89db. Really you don't need to look any further than that for an explanation.

[Midnite Mick]

I have my lsi15's fueled by the Nuforce reference 9.02 monoblocks and the speakers stress long before the amps are really pushed.

Mike

[McLoki]

I have a Cinepro like this one. (http://cgi.ebay.com/CinePro-3k6-Six-Channel-Power-Amplifier-LIKE-NEW_W0QQitemZ9703543712QQcategoryZ81741QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) I can say it is a truely awesome amp for the LSi's (or any speaker I would think).

the one I linked to - (ebay auction) has to be one of the oddest auctions I have seen. I would be very careful if interested.

Anyway - click on the link for Cinepro in my sig and you will see the Cinepro website for it (from 1998). There are a number of reviews on that link as well.

Michael

[Airplay355]

Musical fidelity gear sounds great with my lsi7's.

[ND13]

Maurice,

Don't forget about PSound. Mine drives my SRS 2s with ease and on the rare occasion that I get to crank em, it stays fairly cool. At 4ohms, it's rated at 315 wpc. Imo, it's fairly neutral with a SLIGHT swing to the warmer side, SLIGHT.

[race4aliving]

The 15's sound great driven by my Accuphase. Lsi's love really good amps.

[carvin77]

Lsi...:confused:

[ohskigod]

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/lsi15/


Polk's top of the line series, the link in particular is to the LSi15, there is a LSi25 above and a LSi9 and 7 bookshelves

[Zero]

I just wanted to interject to say; the LSi's are actually a very easy speaker to drive. What keeps happening here is that people find that they sound cleaner and more effortless with amps renouned for their brute force and clean power, ala; Krell, Bryston, et all. This gives us the mental note that this is what is "needed". While this is what it takes to really max out the performance of the LSi...... it is not necessary. Their impedence is friendly for the most part, and their efficiency allows them to be driven on flea powered amps if in a smaller to mid sized room on most music (sans classical).

[unc2701]

I gotta disagree-

I wouldn't call their impedence friendly and they're a far cry from flea power range. Flea power takes an efficiency solidly into the 90's and the 4 ohm impedence will trip thermal protections on many receivers- even ones supposedly 4 ohm rated.

Now, I do agree that you don't need a killer, "drive anything" amp for them. Adcom, Rotel, B&K do just fine... but you do need far more power than waht's needed for most Polks.

[McLoki]

Polks high end have always been a pain in the a$$ to drive.... The classic SDA lines were very hard to drive as well. (My SDA 1-b's also hit 2 ohms at a few frequencies) I checked out of audio between the SDA's until polks LSi line was introduced. (I did have an RM-6600 series that was very easy to drive.)

I think Polks lines run very much in line with electronics. Their low end speakers can be driven by anything, their mid-grade do best with mid-grade AVR's. (mid grade being $700-$1200 or so)

Their high end (RTi12's and LSi line) do best with separate components or high end AVR's.

Problems come into play when someone mates Polks Upper end speakers and low to mid-grade electronics.

Michael

[Zero]

The LSi hover between 4ohms and 6 ohms, occasionally dipping into the 3 range. Given many other speakers that utilize a similar design, cab construction, and price - they are very easy on an amp compared to their competitors which typically average in the 4 ohm range with 2 ohm dips.

Now for someone coming from Paradigms, B&W's entry level speakers, RTi's, et all, than yes, the LSi's look like they require giants. No, they are not friendly enough for your typical cheap class a/b receiver. But for anyone that has an amp capable of sustaining a 4 ohm load - given their design and class, they are a sinch.

I've also ran the LSi-15's on a 6 wpc (maybe 10wpc into 4 ohms) class D amp. Let me tell you, it had NO problems powering them. Subjectively - its the best I've EVER heard the LSi's sing. No contest.

[unc2701]

How big was the room?

[organ]

This is very interesting.

Like others have mentioned, the LSi will run on many decent receivers. I ran my 9's on an Onkyo and H/K. Yes, they can power the speakers but sounds like sh*t compared to running them on my seperates.

[Zero]

Two rooms;

One very small, 9x10
The other, roughly 16x12

It had no problems with either or on pop/jazz/rock/blah blah to very reasonable SPL's. No, I never had an SPL meter handy.

edit: I also powered a pair of Von Schweikert VR-4 JR's with this amp as well. No problemo's.

[organ]

Sean,
After reading many of your posts and seeing some of you ads on the FM forum, I'm surprised by the number of gear you've gone through or still have in your possession. I had no idea you had so much toys. Have you found a pair of speakers worth holding on to (other than LSi)?

[Zero]

Maurice,

Yeah, its pretty sick. I'm slowing down though. This game has got me tired - and Im ready to retire! My Totem's (Sttaf) are never leaving my side! The LSi's have been given to my parents.. they like em'. Otherwise.... its all up for grabs.

[organ]

Dayummm! Totem speakers are awesome. Sound signature is similar to LSi but I find them to have a more 'energetic' sound compared to LSi. The tweeters on them sound sweet.

[Zero]

Maurice,

I've passed my two year anniversary with my Totem's. I've put that particular system on hold... but I am going to treat them right when I attack it. Some serious dollars are going to be thrown their way.

I have to say, the LSi share nothing in common with any Totem except that both use cones/domes and are housed inside a box. Otherwise, the design goals are different, and sonically - they are miles apart.

[unc2701]

I'm really suprised it worked that well in the 12x16 room... SPLs are logarithmic with room size AND wattage, so that's two big strikes. My modded SI amp just can't hang on the LSi's, but does great with the high efficiency fostex's... 'course my room is 26x12

[Zero]

Unc,

It surprised me too. It's an amp that took me to school and threw out quite a few concepts I *thought* I knew about audio. This is not to say it is the end/all be/all. It had limitations and ultimately enjoys very efficient speakers. Just the same, the LSi are efficient enough to push uncomfortable volumes. My guesstimate is that 90 or so db was achieved at the 11 o'clock position. I never take it to 12. Of course, it goes without saying that those heavy rockers would want to look elsewhere, along with classical enthusiasts...

Getting back to the main point; Keeping to mind listening habbits and expectation; The LSi are efficient enough to be driven by a low powered amplifier. Their impedence, while not "friendly" next to their Rti counterparts, is not all that demanding on an amplifier 'worth its salt'. Hell, they can even be ran on entry level class a/b receivers (pioneer, onkyo, marantz, denon) provided the user doesnt push their amp too far. I'd say thats reasonably friendly for a high quality 4 ohm rated speaker.

[SuperDave]

Its true my receiver can drive the Lsi25's as long as I have them set to "small" with the sub pre-out hooked to the LFE inputs and the binding posts not jumpered.
But if you jumper the binding posts(they come that way) and set the main speaker outputs to "large" it will shut the receiver off at higher listening levels. When I first got these speakers I was advised to go with the first setup for home theater and the second for musicality(on this forum).
The receiver has a 4 ohm setting that sets protection levels higher because it is expecting a critical load. I left it there because I would rather have the receiver shut down than have damage occur.
The system sounds fine set at small with sub preouts driving the low end but I always felt and heard there could be something more. I recently purchased an ADCOM GFA-5500 online and am waiting for it to arrive. I can't wait to see what the difference will be. For the time being I will use the receiver for a preamp to the mains.

SuperDave
Yamaha RX-V992 (ADCOM GFA-5500 in transit):eek:
Denon DVD-1920
Sony XBR 27"
BrightHouse DVR
Polk LSi25 Fronts
Polk LSiC Center
Infinity RS1 Rears
Monster THX Cables

[scottyf]

I wish you could hear my system right now. I am powering my LSi15's with an Altavista-modded Counterpoint 100......and it is un-FREAKIN' amazing! I don't know that they need a ton of power (amp is rated at 100/8ohms, 200/4ohms) but they absolutely SING in my setup.

I brought a buddy who hadn't heard these speakers and was in the market for a pair, and he was blown away. I had to caution him that the amazing sound had a lot to do with the amp and preamp....he had his phone out to call Crutchfields and order the LSi's. He said (and I agree) that nothing in the shop at our local "high-end" shop can touch the sound of my system.
Needless to say, he is now looking for some used Counterpoint equipement to have Mike Elliott work his magic on.

I can't remember another system I've owned that has been this one's equal. Ever. I know even better speakers would do that much more for the sound, but the synergy is too intense to screw with. And I still need to do some room treatments!

Do yourself a favor, get a Counterpoint SA-12 or SA-100 and have Mike make it perfect. Or, you can get one of his brand new amps, Aria WT-100, for under $5K. You will hop off the audio-go-round. I have.

http://www.altavistaaudio.com/

[organ]

Scott,
Right on! That's awesome. Looks like we're going to have another member here at CP:).

Glad to hear the amp is working out great for your 15's. Keep the tunes rollin.