"Ideal" Musical Sub Project

[Early B.]

I've been interested in building a very nice musical subwoofer for my 2-channel system that digs down to 30 Hz. Here's what I'd want -- A lightening fast passive sub (or two!) in a smallish rectangular box driven by a monoblock (or 2-channel amp if I had two subs). Now, the issue becomes the crossover. I would need a very high quality crossover that doesn't add any coloration. Anyone ever experiment with pro crossovers?

OK, so here's the punchline -- I'd have to acquire all of this stuff (driver(s), amp and crossover) for under $500 for a single new or used sub. Something like this:

driver(s): $150
Marantz monoblock: $175
crossover: $100
MDF, etc.: $75

The reason I say $500 is because beyond $500 it would probably be more cost effective for me to buy a new or used sub for $500 - $750. I'm also interested in employing 8" drivers. Room is 12 x 17 x 8.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[tryrrthg]

I would scrap the 8" driver idea, it just won't happen. You're not going to find an 8" driver that's going to do justice as a SUBwoofer. Also, driver speed has nothing to do with the size. A smaller driver is not "faster" than a bigger woofer, if that's what you're going for. If anything a bigger driver is "faster" because it doesn't have to move as far to produce a certain frequency at the same output as a smaller driver at the same frequency. Get the 10" Dayton High fidelity!

Like I said in the other thread. build the biggest box you can stand, put the 10" driver in it. Then put 1 pound of polyfil per cubic foot of internal enclosure volume inside the sub. The bigger the box, generally the more "musical" it will sound.

crossover: Paradigm X30

[Early B.]

I was thinking of multiple 8" drivers in a single box. My goal is to keep the box size small and 8" drivers will allow me to do that. A 10" driver in a 1 c.f. box might work. I'd love to build a bigger box, but that's not an option.

[AzN_plyR]

wouldn't multiple 8" drivers = more space... instead of just one 10" ?

[tryrrthg]

Another option for bigger boxes, if you're up for it, is replacing your speaker stands with sub boxes. Kinda like a Wilson Watt Puppy design.

Without knowing the Sd parameter (PE doesn't have it posted) of the Dayton 10" driver, I can't say for sure if the Dayton 10" would be ideal in a box that small. I'm sure it would work, but whether it is ideal is another question...

Just keep thinking 10" driver ;)

[RuSsMaN]

The right set of 8's will be very musical. Again, see Vandersteen.

I still think the NHT 1059 and 1259 drivers are king of the hill for DIY. They were the driver everyone was using before DIY subs became so popular. They aren't bass pistons like a lot of the drivers today, but they loved sealed boxes, and sound phenomenal.

http://madisound.com/nht1259.html

Cheers,
Russ

[AzN_plyR]

Two X-subs at AV123 for used for stands :) should cost you about 400 bucks for both hehe... Now let me find a pic of it used as stands..

[AzN_plyR]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=665921

here ya go.....

[Early B.]

Onix is very cool stuff. They are sold out of their X-subs until 6-5-06.

In doing some research the Peerless XLS drivers seem to be quite popular for DIY applications. I noticed that Ascendant Audio is practically giving away their Assassin drivers right now. Just wondering if a 10" Assassin will offer a musically satisfying sub at low listening levels. ???

[tryrrthg]

Onix is very cool stuff. They are sold out of their X-subs until 6-5-06.

In doing some research the Peerless XLS drivers seem to be quite popular for DIY applications. I noticed that Ascendant Audio is practically giving away their Assassin drivers right now. Just wondering if a 10" Assassin will offer a musically satisfying sub at low listening levels. ???
Damn $55! I don't think you'll find a better driver for the money. I ran a quick model and it would work in a cubic foot... How it would sound, I have no idea. You like your Atlas 15, so Ascendant is doing something right. it's worth a try...

[Early B.]

Damn, Damn, Damn!! After further research I'm re-thinking everything and leaning towards taking Russman's advice re: the Vandy. Been reading the attached article. Damn, I say.

[unc2701]

There are some vifa 8" drivers out there with a Fs of around 21hz. Look for them at madisound. I haven't run the model, but they should get you to 30hz in a sealed box no problem.

For the crossover:
ICBM ($200), paradigm X-something($100), Fmod($30)
The last one is pseudo active, so you'll need volume control on the amp.

If you're using a AVR as a pre, then you can use its bass management to do the work.

You also might consider a plate amp. The PE 500 watt BASH amp has boost, variable crossover and plenty of power for your purposes.

[Early B.]

I think Norh uses those 8" Vifa drivers in their subs. I wonder if the Onix X-sub uses them, too.

This sub will be used for my 2-channel "reference" system. Trying to stay away from plate amps and such. Wanna go a bit higher quality than the standard PE stuff. If I go DIY, I'll do "sub amp separates" -- a monoblock and a crossover.

[unc2701]

Yeah, the only thing the plate amp will get you is the boost option at the bottom end to extend the response just a little. My Adcom 555 +ICBM combo works pretty well, so I can say that the subwoofer seperates is a viable idea.

Hey, if you want to go all out, have you seen the ultimate TL subwoofer?
http://www.hogheaven.com/diyaudio/subwoofers/PATL/patl.html
Somewhere I've seen it built w/ the NHT 1259's that Russman links above.

[95Honda]

I also reccomend the ICBM crossover. The only thing I have used that is better is a Bryston 10B.

I have never been happy with the NHT 1259. I have used it many times. Output is limited and I have used better sounding drivers for the price. The new Dayton High Fidelity drivers are a better deal, in my opinion.

There simply is not that many 8" drivers out there that are remotely affordably that sound good and would have plenty of displacement to produce the bottom octaves with authority. Again, this is just my opinion.

Also, I can say I'm a little biased. I don't really think many subwoofer systems out there at all are that great. You need tons of power and displacement to get decent, low distortion, output levels for anything but low-level music....

Currently I run a pair of 18" XBL2 drivers with 3" of linear stroke each and well over 5KW in my living room. I still think any less wouldn't do justice to some movies I watch. But, everyone has different goals....

[jcaut]

Early,

I've got a new pair of the Dayton RS265HF 10" subs I might be willing to sell for what I've got in them, if you decide to go that route. I had envisioned trying to use them as woofers in a 3-way, but it's probably not going to happen. The HF's want a ported box around 1.5 cu.ft. per woofer, or a little less than 1 cu.ft. sealed. The HO's do better in really small boxes.

Jason

[Early B.]

Today I decided to go in a totally different direction -- no sub at all.

What I really want is impractical for my setup, my wallet and the WAF.