Advice Needed: SR6500 and JL Audio Amp [Archive]

tigmd99

06-01-2006, 12:14 AM

Hey all,

First post. I read thru 8 pages of posts and cannot find the answer. Here is my current system in my Corolla:

Infinity Reference 6.5 components (front)
Infinity Reference 6x9s (rear deck)
JL Audio 300/4 amplifier
Small self-powered Kenwood subwoofer under passenger seat.

I want to upgrade to something more natural sounding. The Infinity Reference components are a bit too bright and too mechanical for me. So, i am very interested in the SR's.

First question: My JL Audio 300/4 amp makes about 90 watts RMS x 4 (from 10-14 volts). This is actual RMS watts as tested. So, does my JL amplifier make enough power to make the SR6500 sound real good (aka up to potential)??? I don't want to buy an expensive speaker system and sell it short with not enough amp power.

Second question: In home audio, you kinda want all speakers to be from the same line from the same company. This allows for the speakers to blend together better. So, with SR6500's, will the Infinity 6x9 in the rears make my car sound less "integrated"??

Third question: I am afraid that the SR's tweeters won't fit my upper door sails. Right now, my Infinity 1" soft-dome tweeter fits without a problem. Is the ring radiator tweeter much bigger than this????

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Greg Peters

06-01-2006, 12:51 AM

Your factory sail panels have a built-in tweeter like the attached thumbnail?

If so, factory sail panel appears to be big enough to hold an SR tweeter in place of the Infinity one you have installed, but you may have to fabricate a bracket to mount the SR tweeter in the same location as they are fairly big. You would have to take apart the sail panels and measure against Polk specifications to see if you have the room necessary.

You'll probably notice vastly improved imaging with the SR set over the Infinitys, and as such if you run rear speakers as fill you'll want to cut their output so as not to mess with that imaging. You don't want too much high frequency information coming from the rear of the car.

If money is not an object, you could replace the rears with SRs as well (so they match), but if you were to fade most of the output from the rears you already have, it would probably not be an issue. At higher volumes, the Infinitys can be really screechy, overly bright, and the only way to get rid of the irritation of those Infinitys would be to replace them or dial them down to a less noticeable level with the fader.

Your JL amplifier has output inline with the suggested power levels of the SR components, would probably do a heck of a job. MacLeod has been using an SR set biamped with 75 watts on the SQ competition circuit with great results, so that 90 watts would be fine.

tigmd99

06-01-2006, 12:55 AM

Yes, my tweeters are the same as the ones in the pic. As for amp power, my initial concern was because the SR6500 RMS power rating is 125 watts.

Thanks for your quick answers.

tigmd99

06-01-2006, 11:25 AM

bknauss

06-01-2006, 11:51 AM

tigmd99

06-01-2006, 11:54 AM

If you changed the amp to a Polk 400.4, it would sound so much better you wouldn't believe it :)

And Infinitys sound bright to a lot of people because of the metal dome tweet. Just not my favorite material for tweet domes.

Why would the Polk 400.4 sound better than JL Audio 300/4??

My Infinity Reference speaker is at the bottom end...it does NOT have metal tweets. It has a soft-dome which i prefer.

MacLeod

06-01-2006, 12:14 PM

Is it a good idea to bridge my JL Audio amp to power the SR6500s up front and let my OEM headunit power my Infinity 6x9's in the rear? I am not that interested in biamping it because of the complexity.

No. Im not a fan of bridging 4 channel amp to run mids/highs. Its always better to not push an amp at 100%.

Head unit power is the worst there is. Very little but high distortion.

You should use same brand speakers for best results but you could still use the Infinitys if you tune them down enough they should blend in ok.

tigmd99

06-01-2006, 12:16 PM

Macleod, what kind of RMS wattage are you using to push the SRs??

MacLeod

06-01-2006, 12:52 PM

A bunch. Im bi-amping so Im running over 70 to each tweet and 70 to each mid. Thats more than theyre rated to push but with proper gains and common sense with the volume, it works.

tigmd99

06-01-2006, 12:55 PM

So, do you think that 90 watts to each component is enough?

Greg Peters

06-01-2006, 05:49 PM

So, do you think that 90 watts to each component is enough?

They are rated for 250 watts peak, 125 continuous. Polk recommends as little as 50 watts for the SRs, but you will have louder and cleaner output with more.

I've had the Infinity Reference series (two pair), and even with the soft dome tweeters I still found them to be screechy. I also found their mids to break up fairly easily trying to play lower mid-bass. Some people quite like the Infinity sound, but if that were the case with you, you probably wouldn't be looking to upgrade ;). I found that my Infinitys sounded much better in a friend's car.

cam5860

06-01-2006, 06:49 PM

The 90 watts coming from that JL audio will be plenty enough. I not a big fan of overpowering speakers like a lot of folks.

Speaker ratings are not near as underrated like amps are. I also like to stay about 25 watts RMS under the power ratings to be on the safe side.

To much power will blow speakers specially if you like to play them loud alot.

If there rated at 125 RMS 90 to 100 RMS watts is what you need to go with.

It's really common sense if your car has a top speed of 140 would your car last longer with you driving 100 or making it scream all the time at 140.

Think about the same way with speakers. The more power you feed them the hotter the voice coils get.

Thats means the more heat it has to try to get rid of. It's going to fry sooner or later with to much power.

MacLeod

06-01-2006, 08:17 PM

Hooking up a 500 watt amp to a speaker doesnt mean youre giving it 500 watts all the time.

Take your car analogy. Say your car can go 150 MPH. Do you start it up at 150 MPH and drive it at 150 MPH all the time? Probably not. Same with a 500 watt amp. More than likely youll use a lot less of it. And if you listen to your speakers and not overdrive them, more power can be good.

cam5860

06-01-2006, 09:38 PM

Yeah thats true! But how many people have you seen that had a sports car and drove it 55 mph?

Samething with a stereo system most people play them loud and if you have to much power on them your going to overdrive them into failure.

MacLeod

06-01-2006, 11:11 PM

People that would do that would destroy their anyways, regardless if they had a 1000 watt amp or a 50 watt head unit. ;)

bknauss

06-02-2006, 02:12 PM

Why would the Polk 400.4 sound better than JL Audio 300/4??

Cause Polk watts just always sound better than JL watts. Its a proven fact!

tigmd99

06-02-2006, 02:43 PM

Cause Polk watts just always sound better than JL watts. Its a proven fact!

Hmmm, sounds good to me. I am gonna throw away my JL amp right now and run out and get that Polk amp!!

Thanks for your unbias opinion. Where would i be in life without this forum?!:)

exalted512

06-02-2006, 08:19 PM

i hope you didnt come to a polk forum to get an unbiased opinion...
-Cody

MacLeod

06-02-2006, 08:45 PM

Just because we're biased, doesnt mean we're wrong.

1996blackmax

06-02-2006, 08:55 PM

The JL amp should be fine for the SR's.

exalted512

06-02-2006, 09:09 PM

Just because we're biased, doesnt mean we're wrong.
exactly my thoughts, especially when it comes to JL
-Cody

1996blackmax

06-02-2006, 09:16 PM

He already has the amp so.......

exalted512

06-02-2006, 09:20 PM

i already have 4 amps, doesnt mean im not going to get 4 more:D
-Cody

1996blackmax

06-02-2006, 09:36 PM

I get ya :D.

I don't think I will get anymore amps for a very long while now....

tigmd99

06-02-2006, 10:17 PM

1996blackmax

06-02-2006, 10:24 PM

There are many amps out there that are not as popular, or as available as some brands. This does not mean that they are any less of an amp. You have a good amp, we are just having fun.

Greg Peters

06-02-2006, 11:45 PM

Come on...the JL Amp is perfectly fine. There is no way i am getting rid of it for a small namer from Polk. Don't get me wrong, i love the SR6500s...thus, i am here. However, Polk making amps is a new thing, while JL has been doing this much longer. JL amp makes about 90 watts (real, tested) consistently no matter what input volts (10.5-14 V). Can Polk do that?? (proof please)

Small namer...perhaps that's kinda defensive.

The whole "R.I.P.S." power supply is a maketing strategy that JL has made a name out of, and while it is nice to know the amplifier output remains constant through a range of input voltages, it does draw considerably higher current when used at the lower voltage levels to make that rated power.

Polk has not made any claims to offer a "R.I.P.S." type power supply, but if you were to read up, you'll find that they do excel in other areas with their amps- apples vs oranges. A lot of choices boil down to brand preference. If I could have afforded (and had room to install) a bank of Polk amplifiers in my car, I would have been all over that. Bulletproof amps with outstanding customer service.

I don't believe anyone expects you to toss that amp you have- it will do a fine job- they are just trying to point out that Polk's product is also worth looking at. When it comes to customer service and warranty, I would have to give the nod to Polk over JL, because Polk is not known for an elitist attitude that requires equipment to be installed by an authorized dealer (or be inspected and "blessed" by an authorized dealer) to maintain warranty coverage.

JL Audio 300/4 vs Polk C400.4? Both available online within $20 of each other, Polk with warranty, JL with warranty voided. It would make for an interesting comparison.

MacLeod

06-02-2006, 11:48 PM

The 400.4 makes over 90 watts per channel and has a crossover just as good as the JL's. Plus the Polk isnt regulated which is a good thing.

1996blackmax

06-03-2006, 12:13 AM

I never liked the elitist attitude that JL and their dealers have had over the years. This was one of the things that pushed me away from their products.

exalted512

06-03-2006, 09:02 AM

Wow, their amps can make the same power from 10-14V. Umm...who cares? If your car is running at 10V then theres something wrong...
-Cody

MacLeod

06-03-2006, 02:48 PM

Wow, their amps can make the same power from 10-14V. Umm...who cares? If your car is running at 10V then theres something wrong...
-Cody

Bingo!

cam5860

06-03-2006, 04:45 PM

I would think JL Audio would be thinking about the 10 volts with the car switched off. If you have four yellow top battery's in your car then you can have your car switched off and listen to your music.

The battery voltage in a battery fully charged is about 12.5 volts. So with the regulated power supply it would allow you to play the JL Audio amp a good bit longer without losing the sound quality and such.

exalted512

06-03-2006, 08:05 PM

Thats what they want you to think. Fact of the matter is that they draw more current because of that technology, so it wont make a difference. If your voltage is 12.5 and you play your amp for an hour with an efficiency of 50% its going to draw more power than an amp with an efficicency of 65%.
-Cody

howie777

06-03-2006, 09:24 PM

I just checked out this RIPS system. Seems not so good to me. The whole detecting your speakers resistance and adjusting the rails so you always get the rated power no matter the speaker load, that is just silly. All you are doing is limiting the amps potential power output. To get optimal power to a speaker, you need a good power supply. If you half the resistance and you don't double your output, your power supply can't deliever the necessary current. I think the better solutions is a better power supply. Go from 75 Watts at 4 ohms to 150 Watts and 2 ohm. Now you can get twice the output from the amp if you choose 2 ohm speakers, more options seems better to me.

I don't know, just my initial thoughts, but at least JL is trying something different. That is good to see, although in this case it doesn't seem to make sense to me right now. I'm sure the JL amp will work just fine though. And Polk has been making sub woofer amps for a long time. Migrating to car amps shouldn't have been that big a deal, especially if they hired someone with experience to help with the design.

Just my thoughts.

Howie

exalted512

06-03-2006, 09:59 PM

its because everyone who buys JL doesnt really know what theyre doing, theyre just buying it for the name. Therefore they have to "idiot proof" their amps.
-Cody

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 12:11 AM

Wow, their amps can make the same power from 10-14V. Umm...who cares? If your car is running at 10V then theres something wrong...
-Cody
Does your car always run at 14 volts? Why do you hate JL amp being tightly regulated to all power input and resistance?? It is consistent. Yet, you guys mention how power handling is regulated in the Polk amps (as is the case with all other amps)...well, if you guys hate regulation so much, then why are you mentioning this?

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 12:14 AM

Just as Polk has highly advertised the one review of the SR6500, i will post professional reviews of the Slash amp:

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps_pages.php?page_id=1

As you can see, more than one person is in agreement.:) I guess that all you guys behind the keyboard knows a lot more.:D

Here is one full review of the 300/4:

http://www.carsound.com/reviews/amps/jl_3004.html

NOTICE: S/N ratio > 121!! Watts= 90-97 watts/channel RMS at 12.8-14 volts!

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 12:25 AM

Now, for all you people who think that JL audio has cheated you out of extra power by it's tight regulation, i would like to ask you one thing. Ready?
- JL 300/4 = Polk 400.4 in price.
- JL 300/4 = Polk 400.4 in RMS and MAX power output (more or less).
- Both are the same size...well, JL is actually a bit smaller i think.
- Both are considered to be in the same class and appeal to the same customer looking for a high quality 4-channel amp.
- Both are sold at good reputable dealers (Tweeter in my case).

Ok, where did JL audio cheated you out of power or value?? Both are basically the same except for JL Audio's guarantee of consistent power output regardless of input voltage and resistance. And THAT is a BAD thing?????!!! I am confused. So, with this JL Audio Slash guarantee, you would expect the JL amp to make less power than Polk Carbon, right? Nope. It makes just as much as Polk. So, where did JL audio mess up??!! Where did JL cheated their customers out of power?? Maybe, i am just a beginner in car audio and do not have the deep knowledge that you guys have.

As for warranty, let me give you another example. Is a Hyundai better than Lexus?? Is a Kia better than Toyota?? Well, both Hyundai and Kia offer a much better warranty than the Japanese powerhouse. Does that automatically make a Hyundai/Kia better than Lexus??!! It's interesting, isn't it? Now, i am not saying that Polk = Kia. But, is it possible that Polk HAD to offer something different so that it can compete with the big boys?? Does this make Polk better than JL Audio by default?? No. I am sure other people appreciate Polk stuff. I will be soon enough when i buy the SR6500s.

JL Audio Slash amps are well proven and well tested. There is no reason to rag on it to make yourself feel better about your purchase of the Carbon amps.:rolleyes:

If you have evidence where Polk Carbon 400.4 performs BETTER than JL Audio 300/4, then please post it up. Otherwise, thanks for your bias opinion.:)

exalted512

06-04-2006, 12:57 AM

exalted512

06-04-2006, 01:01 AM

also, tweeter lists the JL amp at 500, sounddomain lists the polk amp at 400
so, you get -50 watts for 100 dollars! thats a great deal!
-Cody

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 01:05 AM

JL 300/4 75x4 or 150x2
Polk 75x4 or 200x2

Where or where do i get my information? Maybe polk's and jl's website? No...couldnt be, thatd be way too easy.

Its people like you that give JL such a bad name with your stuck up elitist attitude:rolleyes:
-Cody

Elitest?? Are you freaking kidding me?? You guys are the one ragging on my amp and badmouthing it. Didn't one of you guys tell me to throw away my amp for the Polk??!! When did i ever insult ANY Polk stuff until now??? And I am the elitest one?! You're too funny, Cody!:D You guys just convince me to treat you guys like children...children with inferiority complex!!

If i was an elitest, then why am i here?? I would be getting Rainbow or MB Q216 speakers, right?

Cody, does your car battery always make 14.4 volts??? You never answered my question.

Look at the TEST REPORT of the JL amp above...look at the rated power. Please also see that i did mention "more or less" in what i wrote above. And didn't you know JL underrates their amp? :p

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 01:06 AM

also, tweeter lists the JL amp at 500, sounddomain lists the polk amp at 400
so, you get -50 watts for 100 dollars! thats a great deal!
-Cody

Hey, why don't you go by TWEETER prices for BOTH??!!!! Wouldn't that make more sense??:rolleyes: At my Tweeter store, both are sold for the same price. Would you like to check on it yourself?? I can give you their phone number. The Polk is probably on sale right now because no one is buying them. Tweeter would not even budge on the JL amp price. Again, let me remind you of Lexus vs. Hyundai.:D (Just kidding.)

Holy ****...this is frustrating! It's like talking to a 5-year old...and not the brightest star either!

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 01:37 AM

One more point before bed. Since Cody reminded me to take a closer look at the specs, i did and this is what i find interesting...i hope you too.

In the JL Audio 300/4 amp specs:

Rated Power = 75 W RMS x 4 at 1.5-4 ohms (11-14.5 Volts)

THD at Rated Power < 0.03% at 4 ohm per channel (20 Hz to 20 kHz)

S/N ratio > 108.5 dB referred to rated power
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the Carbon 400.4 amp specs:

Rated Power = 75 W RMS x 4 at 4 ohms (14.4 Volts)

THD at Rated Power 0.1% at 4 ohms per channel (20Hz to 20kHz)

S/N ratio > 105 dB
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, JL Slash amp makes rated power at <0.03% of THD. Polk Carbon amp makes rated power at 0.1% of THD. Emphasis is on decimal point and "<" symbol. Slash amps make good power at very low distortion. It is a super clean amp (S/N > 120 in review above). (And to boot, it makes more than it's rated power!!)

And someone mentioned above about Polk amp having features not present on the JL Slash amp...which features were you talking about???? The Slash amp regulates itself to the voltage input and speaker impedance to keep everything on the level. Don't you want that?! I do. No matter what changes, the amp output does not...it will always make it's rated power.

Have a good night.

MacLeod

06-04-2006, 01:48 AM

exalted512

06-04-2006, 01:54 AM

I guess that all you guys behind the keyboard knows a lot more.
...
JL Audio Slash amps are well proven and well tested. There is no reason to rag on it to make yourself feel better about your purchase of the Carbon amps.

elitist attitude.

Whoopty ****ing do. they make an amp that does 90x4 and is only rate at 75x4

RF Power 3002 is rated at 50x2 and puts out 125x2. Its rated at 300w bridged at 2 ohms but puts out on average over 830. Not thats underrated. If you think Polk's amp only does 75x4 youre on crack

Everyone polk 400.4 ive run across does at least 95x4. I work at a shop, i see a lot of these amps.

To answer your question, my truck runs at 14.6V with the ac on, 14.8V with the ac off.

Professional rating? Please. Are they going to bad mouth a company that gives them money for advertising? Hell no.

Why didnt i go to tweeter for both? They dont list polks car audio line. How much is your tweeter selling the JL for? Id like to know if its cheaper than $400, hell, msrp for the polk is $450...and who pays msrp?

Can you hear the difference b/t >0.03 and 1%, ESPECIALLY in a car. If you can ill give you 100 bucks.

The only reason you can come up with that JLs slash series is so great is because they have regulated power supplys. Like i said earlier, if your cars voltage is different from 13-14.4 then you have some problems.

If theres anything else youd like to add or ask, ill give you an answer:D
-Cody

MacLeod

06-04-2006, 02:02 AM

Well at least JL doesnt shamelessly promote their Ebay auctions in their sig. Especially since its ended already.

:p

exalted512

06-04-2006, 02:06 AM

its just there to remind people of the great deal they missed out on:D
but if you guys still want one, ill still sell em to ya;)
-Cody

MacLeod

06-04-2006, 02:09 AM

Nah. Still trying to save for my amps. Ya believe that? Im about to save up and spend $600+ just to get rid of a stupid "pop" and save myself 1 stinking point. Is this a sickness or what?

exalted512

06-04-2006, 02:15 AM

hell yea it is...ive got ya beat though, by the end of the month ill be dropping $1800...but on 4 amps, a processor, and a bunch of wiring crap. Then another grand later this year for the Pioneer avh7800 with navigation. dont really need it, but i can:D. Plus, with the 360º, i dont need a great sq deck. But this is the most sq oriented "screen" out there right now.
-Cody

MacLeod

06-04-2006, 02:25 AM

Where are you getting all this freaking money?!

You aint selling your body down on MLK boulevard are ya?

Greg Peters

06-04-2006, 05:42 AM

I'd quote tigmd99 on a number of posts, but it would take a lot more space. This is probably a prime opportunity to "agree to disagree". Likening Polk to Hyundai or Kia on the official Polk forum will bring about a knee-jerk response pretty quick.

Car audio is a subjective thing, which is good- it would be a drag if you went to buy an amp/HU/speaker and there was only one brand offered for sale on the planet.

tigmd99-

You have obviously listened to the SRs, which has in turn brought you to this forum, right? If you like them, buy them and you'll probably be very happy with them. They are soundly built and engineered, with excellent customer service and experience behind them. If you have listened to the competition, you probably have to agree that for the dollar value you could do worse for more cash.

Polk products have their "haters" too- read enough forums and there is a surprising amount of negative opinion out there from people set in their misconceptions. The SRs have really opened some eyes out there- people who previously wrote off Polks Db and Momo series as "Kias" and "Hyundais" based solely on preconceptions. While this forum has some staunch supporters of all things Polk, many people on here have a variety of brands of car audio products, as well as experience with all of the above. There are some experienced installers and competitors on this forum who obviously don't mind having some fun with your brand preconceptions.

I can confess to owning some JL stuff, too. While I can't fault the product for sound quality or reliability, better performance could've been had for less with some careful, informed shopping. If I had to pay anything close to MSRP for JL, I wouldn't have bothered, as "brand cachet" was not a motivating factor behind the purchase- reviews and personal experience were, along with some goals for my system.

While it's not fair to blindly say something like "JL" or "Polk is the best" without a whole lot of qualifying statements (plus we'd be subject to litigation from the Zapco and USD Audio people ;) ), Polk is known by those who have owned the product to give outstanding performance per dollar spent throughout the product line. My subjective ears prefer Polk components over those dry sounding ones from JL, and yours may not.

Sonically, Polk and JL amplifiers are far fom being "Kias". Both brands, as well as many others are "worthy" of powering the SRs. Should JL's "R.I.P.S." power supply be something to base your purchase on? I could maybe see it if most of your in-car listening is done with the engine off, key in ACC position, and for that you'd better be running a quality deep cycle battery. If you usually play your system while driving, the R.I.P.S. setup will not really offer a huge benefit as you will be seeing at least 13 volts in the electrical system in most modern cars, and 14+ in many.

Your JL 300/4 will give decent sound quality, some headroom and flexibility with system setup for those SRs. Question answered. We'll need you to start another thread for "What is the ultimate amp for SRs" or even "Why my JL300/4 is the best amp in the world" ;). Or, better yet- "Why I love my new SRs".

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 08:23 AM

Greg, thanks for the post.

Remember, i started this thread because i really like the SR6500s. I never advertised JL Audio. In fact, i was not very impress with JL's speakers. I never owned anything from JL before buying this amp a couple of months back. My recent posts above (on this page) are about the Slash amps, NOT the speakers. And let's keep it JL Slash vs. Polk Carbon and not bring other amps in...this is the point of our recent debate.

And quite frankly, i only got defensive of my JL amp because of the bias ELITEST attitude of some forum members. And i am not particularly impress with the lack of facts to back up their opinions.

And since some of you have misread my posts, let me remind you that i did NOT compare Polk to Hyundai or Kia. I was using the example to talk about the differences in warranty. Please do not put words into my mouth. That is a cheap way to argue.

Lastly, even if you take RIPS out of the equation, the Slash amps are equal to or better than the Carbon amps in all measurable specs.:)

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 08:54 AM

Everyone polk 400.4 ive run across does at least 95x4. I work at a shop, i see a lot of these amps.

Professional rating? Please. Are they going to bad mouth a company that gives them money for advertising? Hell no.

Why didnt i go to tweeter for both? They dont list polks car audio line. How much is your tweeter selling the JL for? Id like to know if its cheaper than $400, hell, msrp for the polk is $450...and who pays msrp?

If theres anything else youd like to add or ask, ill give you an answer:D
-Cody

Whoopy do, you have seen a lot of Polk amps at your shop. Were they in for repairs or were they returned items?? Just kidding.:D

If you notice, the JL Slash 300.4 amp does run at least 95 watts/channel at a lower THD.:) Hey, with both great amps, it comes down to the details and features. I don't see where JL lacks any features as compared to Polk Carbon.

Hmmm, from your second sentence above, does this mean that the amazing review of the SR6500's is BOGUS?!! You said that all these reviewers are bias because respective companies are paying them $$$ to give good reviews, right???

But, unlike the ONE review of SR6500s, the Slash amps have gotten glowing reviews by MANY reviewers. It's NOT a "decent" amp. It's a well respected amp that has graded out very well. Polk Carbon amps got ONE review. I guess that Polk only pays ONE person for each of their products.:D

LOOK AT THIS QUOTE from review linked above:

"Note one point to seriously consider: Take a close look at the reactive power vs. the resistive power. On a real speaker, as opposed to a bench resistor, this amp really performs, to the tune of almost a doubling of power. The adaptive power supply scores some extra points where it matters — driving speakers."

Doubling of power in real life...do you see that?:eek: Cool, huh?

If no one pays MSRP, then why the hell did you bring up the price differences?!! What was your point?! I can assure you that the JL Slash amps hold their value better than the Polk's...thus, you will likely get more off MSRP on the Polk's than JL's.

Anything else?

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 09:13 AM

First off that .07% difference is totally meaningless cause you cant hear harmonic distortion below %2-3 anyway.

And both amps exceed their rated power.

Second, a fully regulated amplifier is great and all but not as good as one that is not. Music doesnt play at the same intensity. Certain things like snare drum slaps and so on will require more output from the amp. If youre running thru a strictly regulated amp putting out the same amount of power these frequency spikes will not be played with as much intensity.

The difference in THD between the two amps is very small. But, it's actually AT LEAST 0.07% difference.:D However, since Cody was bitching like a little kid about the small details of my discussion, i answered back with detail differences b/w the two amps.

Can you help me out with the intensity thing that you talked about? Are you saying that 90 to 97 watts per channel going into a fairly efficient speaker is not enough for some type of music???? Remember, even though it's regulated to guarantee that the Slash amps makes AT LEAST 75 Watts/channel (at super low < 0.03%THD), there is NO cap (no upper limit) on the real-world power, as stated in the reviews linked above. So, i don't see your point. Here's the big one, I am assuming that Cody does not talk out of his ass and that Polk Carbon rates at around 95 watts/channel. Well, guess what? JL 300.4 does the same thing. Difference is that the rating i am quoting is from an ACTUAL intrumental professional review, not word of mouth.

Again, if you have evidence where Polk Carbon 400.4 performs BETTER than JL Audio 300/4, then please post it up. Otherwise, thanks for your bias opinion

As for Mercedes vs. BMW, i actually prefer Lexus. Those two companies have gone down in quality and reliability, esp. MB. Both are living on their past reputations. I do like my one German car though.:p

exalted512

06-04-2006, 09:21 AM

Lastly, even if you take RIPS out of the equation, the Slash amps are equal to or better than the Carbon amps in all measurable specs.:)
how?
-Cody

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 09:22 AM

how?
-Cody

Can you read?

exalted512

06-04-2006, 09:43 AM

Whoopy do, you have seen a lot of Polk amps at your shop. Were they in for repairs or were they returned items?? Just kidding.:D
we dont sell Polk, all are actually installed;)

If you notice, the JL Slash 300.4 amp does run at least 95 watts/channel at a lower THD.:) Hey, with both great amps, it comes down to the details and features. I don't see where JL lacks any features as compared to Polk Carbon.
again, if you can hear the difference b/t 0.1 and 0.03, ill give you a hundred bucks. Hell, theres an amp challenge around thatll pay you 10k just to tell the difference in sound b/t the two amps.

Hmmm, from your second sentence above, does this mean that the amazing review of the SR6500's is BOGUS?!! You said that all these reviewers are bias because respective companies are paying them $$$ to give good reviews, right???
Im just stating the obvious, look how many pages in the same magazine are full pages with JL promos. If I were running the company, I would say JL was god's gift to car audio. I wouldnt mention I think they are way overpriced for what you get, use technology thats not that useful, or just use plain old technology(but thats not in their amp line)

But, unlike the ONE review of SR6500s, the Slash amps have gotten glowing reviews by MANY reviewers. It's NOT a "decent" amp. It's a well respected amp that has graded out very well. Polk Carbon amps got ONE review. I guess that Polk only pays ONE person for each of their products.:D
Ask anyone out there that doesnt know much about audio, ask what brand they think is the best. I guarantee you JL will be said 90 out of 100 times. People dont know better. Theyre so mind set that theyll great, even if it sounds like crap they will self-consicously tell themselves its great. Kind of like if your mom and dad are racist, chances are you will be too. I must admit, JL has one helluva marketing department.

LOOK AT THIS QUOTE from review linked above:

"Note one point to seriously consider: Take a close look at the reactive power vs. the resistive power. On a real speaker, as opposed to a bench resistor, this amp really performs, to the tune of almost a doubling of power. The adaptive power supply scores some extra points where it matters — driving speakers."
id like to see how he takes his measurements.
"this is a great amp it looks cool ecspecially at night with the blue comin around the ... great show off amp not just with looks but with bass to shakes the whole car you can see the roof bounce with this thing wide open i think its probally puttin out a little more great features can control evry thing the bass nob with it is great its blue and when it hits it turns red it is awesome but dosnt control bass but if you switch it where its connected to the amp you can control the bass but it does not light up but great amp looks great only down sides are chrome scratches easy not recomended if you are gonna hide it. "

"Running 2 pairs of these off the factory head unit in my Renault Megane Hatchback '96 Model alone these things sound beautiful and my head unit needs changing. These almost made me decide not too. I like nice true sound, not really nicely coloured sound. Nice, true sound is what I get from these guys. Everyone who gets in to my car goes, "That's your stock head unit?" "What speakers are those?" "You got no amp?" "Tell me where to get these exact speakers". When I tell them that their car me need the 6inch version they look at me funny, thinking they don't want to even chance buying another size in case it doesn't sound like mine, so I have to reassure them it will most likely. I can't wait to amp them and am looking at the audiobahn a6004t for that. They're NICE! REAL NICE!! "

Those must be some awesome products! Oo wait, both were reviews of audiobahn.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/ABNABC525T
http://www.cardomain.com/item/ABNA1500HCT

If no one pays MSRP, then why the hell did you bring up the price differences?!! What was your point?! I can assure you that the JL Slash amps hold their value better than the Polk's...thus, you will likely get more off MSRP on the Polk's than JL's.

Anything else?
I was just stating that from tweeter, they sell the JL for more than Polks MSRP. By saying no one pays MSRP, one would be led to believe that the actual price for polk would be even lower. Sorry, I figured youd be able to put one and one together. How much is your tweeter selling the amps for?
-Cody

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 10:07 AM

Cody, i am at a lost with you. There's just no logic to your thinking...at all!

Did you even READ the review above?? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?! Ok, here's the review again:

http://www.carsound.com/reviews/amps/jl_3004.html

It is NOT by a consumer of the product. I have no idea why you even posted up consumer reviews of a different product & brand. I think that i get what you're saying, but it bears no relation at all to what we're talking about. Do you have ADD??!! Stick to the topic at hand. Dude, you need to get off the glue...it ain't helping your mind at all! Geez.

Let me ask you this...if amps A & B are the same, except for a slight difference in THD, which would you pick? And doesn't THD add up in a system?? So, if you had a choice, then you would always want to pick the lowest THD, right?? THD here and there all add up in the end. Even i know this and i consider myself a novice. After reading all the responses here, i should crown myself as "car audio expert". Geez. Basic stuff people. Basics!! And this guy installs stereo for a living!! WTF?!

So, just because JL audio advertises a lot, they are a bad company making crappy products?!! JL Audio is NOT BOSE. Despite what you may think, JL Audio is very well respected throughout car audio industry. Is it possible that a company can advertise (because it has $$) and make good products at the same time?? Is that just not possible??

With Polk audio advertising their SR6500s everywhere, does that make Polk bad too??? I am at a lost with your clearly flawed logic.

Overpriced with useless technology?? Who's opinion?? The bias people on this small POLK forum?? Why don't we look at independent reviews?? Clearly, the few bias opinions on this forum about JL Slash amps are NOT shared outside this forum.

So, are you really saying that JL Slash amps can't hold a candle to the Polk Carbon amps??? This is too funny. TELL ME WHY. SHOW ME PROOF. SHOW ME WHAT FEATURE(S) POLK HAS THAT JL SLASH DOES NOT.

My Tweeter sells JL Slash 300/4 for $499 or something (forgot exact price). Polk Carbon sold for same price until about a week ago when they "slashed" the price down to $399. Tweeter was not moving them. Despite this, if you ask the car audio manager and installer (two different person) which one they recommend, they will say the same thing...JL Slash. If you want, then PM me...i can give you their phone numbers.

cam5860

06-04-2006, 11:10 AM

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 11:21 AM

Why do you all want to argue over two great amps. Theres not enough differences in them to even argue over them. Both are outstanding amps at about the same prices.

If you have JL Audio stuck up your ass then keep your slash amp. But the polk carbon series amps can compete with the slash series in any event.

I agree. Cam, i came into this thread to ask about SR6500s, not to get my amp slammed. Apparently, some members have a complex and have to insult other amps to make them feel better.:rolleyes: It's the members here that have the Carbon amp stuck up their ass. Maybe you should lecture to them.;)

MacLeod

06-04-2006, 02:58 PM

Can you help me out with the intensity thing that you talked about? Are you saying that 90 to 97 watts per channel going into a fairly efficient speaker is not enough for some type of music????

Not at all. Think of it like this. Music doesnt play at the same volume or intensity all the time. Sometimes you have quiet parts like a soft violin then the next second you could have a loud part like a cymbal crash. An amp that is fully regulate wont have much "wiggle room" between the really soft parts and the really dynamic parts.

Granted Im splitting hairs here because the difference will be very small.

Again, if you have evidence where Polk Carbon 400.4 performs BETTER than JL Audio 300/4, then please post it up. Otherwise, thanks for your bias opinion

Not saying the Polk performs better just that it performs better for my needs. I like the fact that its not regulated, I like the Pre-EQ feature which sets the crossover specifically for Polk speakers, I like that it has a smaller footprint, I like the looks of it and I like that it is $100 cheaper therefore, I like the Polk amp better.

And the fact that we're biased doesnt really matter. We're not longtime loyal customers and fans of Polk Audio because we like the looks of their website, but because we really love their products. So we're not more biased towards Polk than you are towards JL.

Greg Peters

06-04-2006, 04:01 PM

And quite frankly, i only got defensive of my JL amp because of the bias ELITEST attitude of some forum members. And i am not particularly impress with the lack of facts to back up their opinions.

And since some of you have misread my posts, let me remind you that i did NOT compare Polk to Hyundai or Kia. I was using the example to talk about the differences in warranty. Please do not put words into my mouth. That is a cheap way to argue.

Lastly, even if you take RIPS out of the equation, the Slash amps are equal to or better than the Carbon amps in all measurable specs.:)

I guess my previous post was a thinly veiled attempt at saying "drop it, enough already", but it didn't take. Oh well...

1996blackmax

06-04-2006, 05:44 PM

There is no reason to rag on it to make yourself feel better about your purchase of the Carbon amps.:rolleyes:

I do not own Carbon Series amps.

If i was an elitest, then why am i here?? I would be getting Rainbow or MB Q216 speakers, right?

Owning Rainbow products does not make you an elitest ;).

Just get the SR's and run them with your amp as I had said. I think you will be more than satisfied....

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 08:45 PM

Not at all. Think of it like this. Music doesnt play at the same volume or intensity all the time. Sometimes you have quiet parts like a soft violin then the next second you could have a loud part like a cymbal crash. An amp that is fully regulate wont have much "wiggle room" between the really soft parts and the really dynamic parts.

Granted Im splitting hairs here because the difference will be very small.

So we're not more biased towards Polk than you are towards JL.

Hmmm, can you give me more technical details to back up what you are saying or are you just blowing smoke??!! So, again, let me ask you...97 watts/channel is not enough? From where i am seating, JL Audio does NOT limit the upper limit of it's power production...and nowhere does it say that it regulates the music production. Talk to me more about the technical stuff since you're a Polk Guru and all.

And if you're saying all this, then why doesn't ANY of the reviewers ever mentioned this "deficit" of JL Slash amps??!! Oh wait, Cody said that JL is paying these reviewers.:D

It's interesting...i never considered myself JL Audio fan. ****, this is the first thing that i have ever had from JL. I used to have Xtant 404m, MB Quarts, Infinitys, etc...but never a JL product until recently. And i only bought an amp. In fact, i gave up on car audio stuff long time ago because i had no need for it. Only when i got my Corolla did i start to read up on the new stuff. If i was a JL fan, then i would have gotten the JL speakers, right??!!

I am defending my amp only because of the totally ridiculous bias assumptions from some members on this forum. I came here looking for educated advice on speakers. Then, out of nowhere, you guys come crashing down on my other stuff!! WTF?!

Well, thanks for the first few posts...it was informative and helpful. I hope that you treat the other new members with an open mind and not this garbage bias stuff.

MacLeod

06-04-2006, 08:55 PM

1996blackmax

06-04-2006, 08:57 PM

Hmmm, can you give me more technical details to back up what you are saying or are you just blowing smoke??!! So, again, let me ask you...97 watts/channel is not enough? From where i am seating, JL Audio does NOT limit the upper limit of it's power production...and nowhere does it say that it regulates the music production. Talk to me more about the technical stuff since you're a Polk Guru and all.

And if you're saying all this, then why doesn't ANY of the reviewers ever mentioned this "deficit" of JL Slash amps??!! Oh wait, Cody said that JL is paying these reviewers.:D

It's interesting...i never considered myself JL Audio fan. ****, this is the first thing that i have ever had from JL. I used to have Xtant 404m, MB Quarts, Infinitys, etc...but never a JL product until recently. And i only bought an amp. In fact, i gave up on car audio stuff long time ago because i had no need for it. Only when i got my Corolla did i start to read up on the new stuff. If i was a JL fan, then i would have gotten the JL speakers, right??!!

I am defending my amp only because of the totally ridiculous bias assumptions from some members on this forum. I came here looking for educated advice on speakers. Then, out of nowhere, you guys come crashing down on my other stuff!! WTF?!

Well, thanks for the first few posts...it was informative and helpful. I hope that you treat the other new members with an open mind and not this garbage bias stuff.

If you want to ask questions, that's cool. We are here to learn, and share information.

Might be beneficial to leave the sarcasm out.......

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 08:58 PM

You know what, stick it up your ass!

Im trying to discuss this with you and you keep popping off and giving attitude! Since all youre obviously interested in is fighting and causing problems, you should just move on to another forum cause that crap is not welcome here.

Bull****...i call BULL****. Cheap way out, Polk Guru. Weak.

What is that saying that you Americans have, "Pot calling the kettle black":D

I am giving you a chance to back up what you're saying...what attitude? I am giving you exactly what you guys gave me. If you can't handle it, then turn your computer OFF.

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 08:59 PM

If you want to ask questions, that's cool. We are here to learn, and share information.

Might be beneficial to leave the sarcasm out.......

Dude, that was what i was doing until sarcasm and ignorance came out from hiding.:confused: I am just defending.

1996blackmax

06-04-2006, 09:03 PM

We told you that your amp and speaker combo would work together fine.

Everyone needs to calm down.....

cam5860

06-04-2006, 09:18 PM

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 09:32 PM

First off man if you want to know about products you need to read reviews from people that have bought the product.

Like instead of coming in here discussing your plans just read the reviews on the sr's at the polk audio product site.

Really I get tired of hearing about peoples plans just do what the hell you want and move on there's nothing to prove here.

Oh, then why are you on this forum? Isn't this forum for answering questions about Polk products?? Didn't i do that at the beginning of this thread?

BTW, those consumer reviews did not answer my specific questions. And didn't Cody make fun of these consumer reviews??:rolleyes:

It's funny...you guys love to slam other products and act all-knowing, but when the tables are turned, you guys bitch and whine like little menstruating school girls. Geez.

1996blackmax

06-04-2006, 09:41 PM

I hope you are not referring to everyone here with your last comment...

cam5860

06-04-2006, 09:41 PM

First off it's stupid as hell to base your decision on what other people say to start out with. Second off if we are so ignorant and so forth why are you still here arguing with us like a little bitch. Grow up and move on son.

By the way your question was a stupid ass question too. ( will a jl audio 300.4 be enough power for the sr's). Thats common sense man do some thinking for yourself instead of depending on everyone else to answer your questions.

tigmd99

06-04-2006, 09:45 PM

First off it's stupid as hell to base your decision on what other people say to start out with. Second off if we are so ignorant and so forth why are you still here arguing with us like a little bitch. Grow up and move on son.

Then what the hell is this forum for??

As for your second point, frankly, you guys deserve it after the treatment i got.

As for last paragraph, was it really a bad question?? Members here answered it well and thought that it was a good question...go back to page 1 and read it. The fact that you're taking the low road now and insulting my first post shows a lot about your bitching immature ways.

cam5860

06-04-2006, 09:55 PM

Hey all I am saying is drop it and move onto another thread enough said.

exalted512

06-04-2006, 09:58 PM

You guys should try it too
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/531000-531999/531337_309_full.jpg
-Cody

MacLeod

06-04-2006, 11:34 PM

Bull****...i call BULL****. Cheap way out, Polk Guru. Weak.

What is that saying that you Americans have, "Pot calling the kettle black":D

I am giving you a chance to back up what you're saying...what attitude? I am giving you exactly what you guys gave me. If you can't handle it, then turn your computer OFF.

You bore me. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/schlafen/sleeping-smiley-015.gif

Welcome to my ignore list.

tigmd99

06-05-2006, 07:16 AM

Oh No! Not the Ignore list!!:(

It's funny...when i ask you to back up your ramblings, you crawl back into your shell. Advice: Don't spout off BS unless you can back it up. "Polk Guru" my ass.

tigmd99

06-05-2006, 08:22 AM

Who posted this:

"First, its totally regulated so you get 75x4 at everything from 11-14 volts and 1-4 ohms.

Second, they have a great crossover. Both front and back have continually adjustable x-overs from 50-5500 Hz. The Polk has this also I believe.

Third, low distortion and very high signal to noise. Carsound reviewed one of these and it put out a 121 db SNR. Thats pretty awesome!

Bottom line: You wont go wrong with any of these so it boils down to which looks the coolest, has the features you want and so on. I myself would take the JL 300/4 in a heartbeat."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yup, this was posted by MacLeod on another thread (Carbon 400.4 vs. JL 300/4)!! Interesting how he trashes the JL amp on the very things that he has praised in the past!! Talking about being full of it!

This is a typical case of "passive aggressive" behavior.

tigmd99

06-05-2006, 08:33 AM

A few quotes from MacLeod about JL Slash 300/4 in other threads:

"Then I fired up the JL Audio 300/4. Man! Ive got to have one!!! This thing sounded awesome!! It wasnt as loud as the Kicker but was so much sweeter sounding. It made the guitart sound heavy as hell and the drums you could feel in your gut. It had a much warmer sound and feel to it."

"And sound room or not, I just fell in love with the JL 300/4 Slash series amp. I was originally going to upgrade my speakers first but I think Im gonna have to get me one of these babies."

"Although its going to be pricey and for a little less than te $500 Polk amp you can get a JL Audio 300/4 that is also 75x4 and has a beter x-over and goes for around $475."

"Well I went to Tweeter again today and they finally have the MMC6500 in. So I went out and grabbed my trusty Dream Theater test CD, fired up the JL Audio 300/4 for 75 super clean watts per channel and gave a listen."

"Yeah, Cody would take Polk amps over JL amps any day......unfortunately most SQ competitors, judges and magazine editors disagree with him."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm...not the same person who criticized my JL amp above, is it??;) Hmmm, he even uses the JL 300/4 amp as his "reference" amp to test out speakers. Why would he do this if this amp has soooo much limitations like what he listed above?? Very interesting, isn't it??:)

Can i call bull**** again?!;)