Advice wanted...

[Grimster74]

I'm sure I've been down this road before with you guys but I'm really interested in getting a 7-channel amp for my setup downstairs but with so many on the market, not sure which one to choose. I'll be using my Denon 3805 as my pre/pro, I really like the interface on the Denon which I plan to keep for a while. Anyways, my budget I would like to keep between $1000-$2000, the lower end more preferable. The amp thats caught my eye is the Outlaw 7125 which is 125w x 7. My question about this amp is this the actual wattage with all channels driven or is it actually like 85w x 7, if so I'd probaly be better off just sticking to the receiver. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Early B.]

Here's a great 5-channel option: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1154804030

You can either use the Denon for the rear speakers or buy a 2-channel amp and you'll still be well within your budget.
Don't forget to factor in at least $200 - $300 for cables.

[criverajr]

PM sent

[millerman 3732]

125w all channels driven

www.outlawaudio.com/products/7125.html

click on the about/gallery

[Grimster74]

Okay Millerman, can you give me some impressions on the 7125. Should/would it be worth the purchase or should I invest the money elsewhere?

[millerman 3732]

well I can't tell you yet Fed-ex has my 7125 out for delivery right may be in a day or two after I fool around with it alittle.

oh, and did you click the about/gallery link on the outlaw web sight thats where it talks about the watts and specs, but I couldn't get the link to work.

[sickicw]

In my expericance the thing that makes the biggest difference (after speakers) is getting as much current to your speakers as possible. This means having good or multiple power supplies....

Here is what i would do. Use your receiver's amp for the surround speakers only.

Buy a good 5 or 7 channel amp. Then use this amp to biamp the left, right, and center channels. If you buy a 5 channel amp, then only biamp the left and right and use the last channel for the center.

The 7 channel you are looking at looks good. Might want to consider buying a used outlaw online with more power. After all, the better the power supply and transformer, the more dynamic your sound will be.

[Skynut]

I really like my Sherbourn 7/2100, like this one (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1154981997).

It works great and is built like a beast.

It does get warm though and does not double power @ 4ohms.

My next amp is going to be a Sunfire Cinema Grand (http://www.sunfire.com/cinemaseven_signature.htm) when I can come up with the proper coinage.

[wingnut4772]

I have owned a couple of Outlaw amps in the past and they are a great value for the money.

Actually , I forgot, I still have Outlaw monoblock amps and they are great.

[Holydoc]

I am using the Outlaw 770 (200watt x 7channel). I have no complaints with it or the company who has shown great service.

So that you can see the quality, I have provided links to pictures of the inside of the 7125amp and the 7500 amp. Good luck with your purchase.

Pictures... http://www.prillaman.net/outlaw_pics/

[cfrizz]

Grimster, while I'm sure the 7125 would be fine, I would go for the 7700 just to have the extra power. That way you will probably never have to be concerned about having enough power ever again.

It is always better to have more than you need, rather than not enough.

[danger boy]

I just got word that some Outlaw audio amps and other products will be increasing in price come July 1st 2006. so anyone teetering on an Outlaw Audio product may want to move on it before the end of the month. :)

[cheddar]

Grimster, while I'm sure the 7125 would be fine, I would go for the 7700 just to have the extra power. That way you will probably never have to be concerned about having enough power ever again.

It is always better to have more than you need, rather than not enough.

If you're considering pushing your budget with the 7700, you might want to consider http://www.bkcomp.com/ref200_57.asp

I saw the 200.7 reduced to around $2100 at magnolia yesterday. Maybe you can get them cheaper elsewhere for even less...

[unc2701]

B&K 7270 (basically the same as the 200.7):
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1155091029

And i just noticed that it's in my zipcode... Let me know if you want me to go check it out.

[Holydoc]

I just got word that some Outlaw audio amps and other products will be increasing in price come July 1st 2006. so anyone teetering on an Outlaw Audio product may want to move on it before the end of the month. :)

DB is right on the money. From Outlaws newletter:


Price Increases

As we first announced in the Newsletter that was sent out prior to the Home Entertainment Show, we have had numerous price increases from our suppliers in the past year. Higher prices worldwide in the costs for basic commodities such as steel and copper, along with the higher shipping costs caused by the dramatic increase in fuel prices, have become a fact of life in every part of the economy. We have been able to absorb most of those price changes up until now, but we regret that we can no longer hold the line on the pricing for some of our amplifiers. The amount of metal used for their transformers, heat sinks and chassis makes them vulnerable to price increases of these raw materials.

For that reason, effective July 1, 2006, we are forced to increase the pricing of our 5x200 WPC and 7x200 WPC amplifiers. (Pricing for the Model 7075, Model 7125 and Model 2200 remain the same, as their prices were set more recently and have not undergone the price pressure of their larger brethren.) We are letting you know about these increases in advance, so that there will be time to consider making a purchase before the new prices become effective.


The 5x200 WPC Model 7500 will carry a $1,599 price tag starting on July 1st, a modest $100 increase. The popular Model 990/Model 7500 combo price increases $100 to $2,498.


The Model 7700 price will increase to $2,149. Even with this increase it remains the most affordable 7x200 WPC amplifier with balanced inputs available today, a clear value when compared to anything in the market. The popular Model 990/Model 7700 combo package will be priced at $2,998, an increase of only $100 over the current price.


The Model 7200 is now available at the $1,849 price announced at the Home Entertainment Show. This 7x200 WPC powerhouse is perfect for those who will not make use of the fully balanced architecture of the Model 7500 and Model 7700. For those of you not familiar with the 7200, a production unit is now being photographed and complete information will be posted in the 7200 forum in the saloon next week.


In addition to the processor/amplifier packages just described, we continue to offer a wide range of “combo package” values that combine our full range of amplifiers, processors, subwoofers and the amazing Velodyne SMS-1.

Pricing for our other products remains the same as currently listed, with the exception of the Model RR2150.

[millerman 3732]

Okay Millerman, can you give me some impressions on the 7125. Should/would it be worth the purchase or should I invest the money elsewhere?
Well I just got every thing hooked up and balanced out, as far as if you should purchase or invest elsewhere I really don't think that I should be advising you on that since I have never heard a 3805 or any other Denon for that matter but I can tell you that my HK vs my HK & the Outlaw the HK & the Outlaw win hands down. You hear people talk about the sound being more dynamic the sound stage being wider, well let me be the frist to tell you I don't know a damn thing about any of that, all I know is that it just sounds better. The highs and mids are cleaner and the bass response is much tighter. So I'll say for me the money was well spent. I am now a beleiver that seperates are the best way to go!:)

[Grimster74]

Thanks Millerman, I'm still doing some research on amplifiers but I have an idea that what ever amp I get may be from Outlaw Audio.

[Grimster74]

Okay, I've narrowed my amp choice down to two amplifiers but not sure which one to go with. The first one of course is the Outlaw 7125 and the second is the Adcom GFA-7607. Anyone know whats the main difference between the two other that price. The Outlaw can be had for $1000 and the Adcom is $1700. Is the Adcom worth the additional $700 or am I going to get the same bang for the buck for $1000. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[sickicw]

buy two Outlaw 7125's and bi-amp all your speakers.

[SuperDave]

I like the Adcom sound(more tube like) but I'm sure both work fine.

[dipiazza]

Forget the Adcom... its $700 more! Save the $700 or buy yourself the 7200! Its 200wpc and only $100 more than the adcome

[SuperDave]

At least take advice fom someone who has one.....(Outlaw or Adcom):D
Oh yea, maybe listen to them. You will be the one who has to live with the sound, for a long time.

[tonyb]

I like the Adcom sound(more tube like) but I'm sure both work fine.
Sorry dude,Adcom sounding tube like??????????Ya need to get out more!:)

[unc2701]

Sorry dude,Adcom sounding tube like??????????Ya need to get out more!:)


Gotta agree with tony here... I can only think of a few amps that are LESS tube like than Adcom.

[SuperDave]

Compared to Outlaw:o
I thought the Adcom sounded less harsh thats all

[Grimster74]

Well, after a couple weeks of researching, looks as though I'll be placing my order for the Outlaw 7125 amplifier. Seems as far as bang for the buck, Outlaw is the way to go as well as CS also. I can't wait to get it ordered and get it downstairs so I can get it fired up. Is there anything special I need to know about hooking up a external amplifier. I know the first thing I need to do is rebalance my speakers but as far as settings in the receiver, do I have to turn internal amps off, etc. Thanks for all your inputs and advice.

[danger boy]

Well, after a couple weeks of researching, looks as though I'll be placing my order for the Outlaw 7125 amplifier. Seems as far as bang for the buck, Outlaw is the way to go as well as CS also. I can't wait to get it ordered and get it downstairs so I can get it fired up. Is there anything special I need to know about hooking up a external amplifier. I know the first thing I need to do is rebalance my speakers but as far as settings in the receiver, do I have to turn internal amps off, etc. Thanks for all your inputs and advice.


you would hook up the Outlaw amplifier from your receiver with the pre amp outputs. the pre amp outputs on your recevier does not use the internal amps.. so you don't need to turn off any internal amps.

what receiver are you using?

[sickicw]

Even if you dont use the internal amp in your receiver, it will still pull lots of current from the wall because of how it is designed (unless you can turn it off somehow). The more you turn up the volume, the more current it will pull. If you don't have any speakers hooked up to it, it will have to release this energy in the form of heat.

If i were you, i would use your receiver to power a pair of rear speakers and then use the extra connections on your external amp to bi amp the left and right speakers.

[unc2701]

Even if you dont use the internal amp in your receiver, it will still pull lots of current from the wall because of how it is designed (unless you can turn it off somehow). The more you turn up the volume, the more current it will pull. If you don't have any speakers hooked up to it, it will have to release this energy in the form of heat.

If i were you, i would use your receiver to power a pair of rear speakers and then use the extra connections on your external amp to bi amp the left and right speakers.

1)Ok, first off you should be able to turn off the mains amp. Most recievers have an "A" and "B" button. If you turn off both, those will be totally shut down/ out of the loop.

2)The denon is probably a class AB amp. Meaning that if it's not pushing anything, then it's only going to use power for whatever the class A bias is- which will be constant.

[Grimster74]

Danger Boy, I'm using the Denon 3805 receiver.

[unc2701]

Hmmm... ok, I'm not seeing the option to completely kill the power to the mains (some have it, some dont'), but you'll be fine running the Denon as a pre.

You probably won't even have to rebalance the speakers- the Outlaw's channels will be matched and all the adjustments you've done will be reflected on the signal levels on the preouts. You might have to tweak around with your sub, but that's it. Plug & play, dude. (Just don't power on until you're done with the plugging part).

[Holydoc]

Hmmm... ok, I'm not seeing the option to completely kill the power to the mains (some have it, some dont'), but you'll be fine running the Denon as a pre.

You probably won't even have to rebalance the speakers- the Outlaw's channels will be matched and all the adjustments you've done will be reflected on the signal levels on the preouts. You might have to tweak around with your sub, but that's it. Plug & play, dude. (Just don't power on until you're done with the plugging part).

This was not true for my Onkyo. I had to recalibrate everything after attaching the amp.

[unc2701]

This was not true for my Onkyo. I had to recalibrate everything after attaching the amp.

Weird... were there big differences? If you swap channels on the amp does it need recalibration? Every channel on that outlaw should have the same gain, esp straight from the factory... Unless the onk does calibration on both the preamp and power amp sides?

[Holydoc]

Weird... were there big differences? If you swap channels on the amp does it need recalibration? Every channel on that outlaw should have the same gain, esp straight from the factory... Unless the onk does calibration on both the preamp and power amp sides?

Big differences is a matter of opinion. All I can state is that my fronts and center were calibrated at 0db on the Onkyo and had to be recalibrated at +1db, 0db, +2db respectively. I spoke with Outlaw about this and the concensus was that it may take more power to get signal to the external amp than it did to the Onkyo's internal. This amount of power difference could be causing the increase in calibration mods.

[SuperDave]

I still don't think 125wpc will get you that much more than your receiver is doing. Go for 200 wpc. Now or later.

[Grimster74]

I still don't think 125wpc will get you much that more than your receiver is doing. Go for 200 wpc. Now or later.

I've been posting on some other forums also and I'm beginning to see alot of this comment above. Let me try and explain a little more in depth. What I'm hoping to acheive is a better, more open sound stage. I would like to take some of the stress off of the amplifier side of the receiver to allow for better processing power instead of trying to power the speakers at the listening level I usually watch movies at which is pretty loud. Sometime down the road I'd like to try and go to a full LSi H/T setup which then I would already have a 4ohm stable amplifier, which would be the next question of would 190x7 be sufficient enough to drive the LSi's at a 4ohm load or should I just go ahead and spend the extra $850 bones and get the Outlaw 7200 which is 7x200 at 8ohms and 300x7 at 4 ohms. The reason I'm really interested in the 7125 is it will drop right into my a/v cabinet whereas if I went with the 7200, I may have to build another a/v cabinet to prevent components from being stacked on top of one another.

[cfrizz]

If you are planning on going to an all LSI system in the future, then it just makes good sense to get the 7200 now & be done with it. Once you get them, you will need a more open soundstage & more power! Otherwise you will be just repeating this whole process again when you do get the LSI's.

I'm a big believer in doing it right the first time around.