VS VR-2 Review

[halo]

The VS VR-2's have arrived!!! Awesome packing job by the seller - they arrived safe and sound but there were no jumpers so I had to make some out of 10AWG BJC. Right after I made them I heard back from the seller and he is sending me the original jumpers. OK - :cool:

Please keep in mind that I don't have these set up / configured properly yet (I'm impatient and I wanted to hear ‘em ‘k?). I’ll get right to it - these speakers are amazing! I am fully prepared for the storm headed my way by saying that, IMHO, these blow away both the SDA SRS 2’s and Carver ALS’s that Rich had. I haven’t heard his new set but I’m pretty sure I’d still be of the same opinion. Not trying to dis ya Rich – IMO the VR-2’s are that good. We have different tastes so that plays into it too. I did not / could not demo the SRS’s in my home – I don’t have the room. I did, however, get to audition Norm’s ALS +’s in my home and, to me, there is no comparison.

The bass response of the VR-2 is downright stunning. You look at this speaker and wonder where in the hell all that slam is coming from. Two 6 ½” drivers are doing THAT?!?!? I am also amazed at how balanced the overall sound is from top to bottom. No more harsh highs. No listening fatigue.

The ambiance driver in the rear really does give you that “live” performance feeling. During one listening session in particular I honestly thought that the performer was actually in the room.

I love the fact that simple adjustments to the speakers allow them to compensate for the room’s acoustical deficiencies. If you’re in the market for new speakers these are a no brainer.

Another great thing about them is the WAF. The finish on them is gorgeous – my wife really likes the looks. The space saving cabinet of the VR-2, compared to all the other speakers that have been through here over the past few years, is a big plus for both of us. They are kind of heavy though – and I haven’t added any lead shot yet. The way they sound now I don’t know if I need to.

I’m currently running them off the Halo A23 and it’s doing a damn fine job. I just ordered the last of the TAD-60 HOT SUMMER PACKAGE DEAL and I plan on doing a shootout between the two or I’ll just run the TAD in SET mode to the tweeters and the Halo to the woofers.

Here are some professional reviews, if you’re interested: link 1 (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue25/vr2.htm) and the attached file.

[VR3]

Amazing what a REAL* midbass can do aint it?

[Zero]

I had the VR-2's for a period of time. Cool speaks. I really enjoyed the dark finish - it gave off a very regal look.

Enjoy.

[danger boy]

ok. i'm not the brightest guy in the world. but what the heck is a VS VR-2? is that a subwoofer or what? Who makes it?

[SCompRacer]

I say avoid the storm. To you, they blow the rest away.;)

I am glad you found a pair of speakers you really like. Njoy.

[SCompRacer]

Who makes it?

Von Schweikert VR 2 speakers.

[Normanality]

The bass response of the VR-2 is downright stunning.


LOL Victor. That aint bass. That's probably mid bass ;)

I've heard the VR-2's at length and while a good sound, I wouldn't put it ahead of SDA's or ribbons. At least we've identified what you like now :cool:
edit...of course the store didn't have the best acoustics either.

Enjoy your new setup!

[wingnut4772]

I knew you would love them. Enjoy!

[fredv]

Congrat to the new VR-2. If you happen to biamp them with the A23 and the TAD-60, please let us know how it goes. BTW, you wouldn't get the last TAD-60 special if I didn't exchange my order for the 1000;) Rich, it is your fault :D

[SCompRacer]

BTW, you wouldn't get the last TAD-60 special if I didn't exchange my order for the 1000;) Rich, it is your fault :D


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! :D

Your gonna love em! :cool: Hope you get a pair like I did with no visible damage.

[halo]

LOL Victor. That aint bass. That's probably mid bass ;)

I've heard the VR-2's at length and while a good sound, I wouldn't put it ahead of SDA's or ribbons. At least we've identified what you like now :cool:
edit...of course the store didn't have the best acoustics either.

Enjoy your new setup!Mid bass huh? Are you sure?
The bass is off the chain. Darla seems to think it's bass response. :confused: Have you read either review? Both critics felt the bass response was excellent. The dealer I purchased them from (link (http://www.audioelation.com/index.cfm/action/page/pid/6DF11B07-2672-4F1A-97820BE9FE350B57.htm)) said, after I'd purchased them and they were already on their way, that the VR-2's played just as low as the Avalon Eidolon Vision speakers @20+k. According to specs they go as low as 25Hz (-3db).

I may not be an expert (actually I know I'm not an expert) but I have a hard time believing that what other knowledgable people are claiming to be solid bass response is just augmented mid bass. Even Russ said
Great speaker. Ought to wipe the audio floor with the RTA15TL's.

I didn't change anything else in the system. Maybe it's system synergy. Maybe it's my room's acoustics. Maybe it is just mid bass and I could've saved myself a boat load of money if I'd just stuck with my Polk R50's driven by an Onkyo Integra receiver with the mid bass (50 -150Hz) boosted up the wazoo. Maybe I'm more confused now than I ever was before. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I heard the VR-4jr's at the same place you and Joey_V heard them. Using Pink Floyd's "Welcome to the Machine" (same material Rich used to demo the SRS's for me and my brother way back when) I was really impressed by what I thought was deep bass response.

[Normanality]

LOL not to worry Victor, we're just having some fun with ya :D

I'm sure room synergy is a big deal since you don't have them tucked away
in the corner. Look at the LSi15's I had. I couldn't get synergy to save my
arse. Micheal loves em in his place. That's the fun (and the aggravation) of
this hobby.

Enjoy! I want some reports of that new toy you just brought home ;)

[halo]

I want some reports of that new toy you just brought home ;)Don't you mean toys? ;) The amp is heavy. :rolleyes: It was very nicely packaged and I like the fit and finish - my wife prefers the McAlister. I asked her why and her response was "it's just something about that do-it-yourself / mad scientist look" that she thinks is :cool:

I haven't fired it up yet :eek: but I'd like to thank Fred for upgrading to the mono's so I could reap the benefits. ;) That APC is really nice! :D

Thanks go out to Rich and Darla - it's the two of you that I have to thank / are to blame for the speaker upgrade.

Thanks go out to Fred, Rich, and Norm - I have you (and Paul for offering such a great deal) to thank for the amp upgrade / switch. I will post my thoughts ASAP.

Thanks go out to everyone else for the kind words. :)

[fredv]

No need to thank me, we just optimized the resource allocation :D Just curious, did you the tubes to KT77? If order, order a set later. You will love it.

[Normanality]

Don't you mean toys? ;) The amp is heavy. :rolleyes: It was very nicely packaged and I like the fit and finish - my wife prefers the McAlister. I asked her why and her response was "it's just something about that do-it-yourself / mad scientist look" that she thinks is :cool:


Perhaps you should hang onto the McAlister for better WAF. Put it in the living room and plug those AR's on it. Wanna hear something sweet? I bet that would make a great combo ;)

[wingnut4772]

Thanks go out to Rich and Darla - it's the two of you that I have to thank / are to blame for the speaker upgrade.


I am an enabler!:D

[tonyb]

Amazing what a REAL* midbass can do aint it?

Ain't that the truth!!!!!!:)

[halo]

Amazing what a REAL* midbass can do aint it?Well yes...and no. If you read the description of the speakers here (http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr2.html) you'll eventually get to this part:

"WOOFER SYSTEM


To reproduce deep and powerful bass, twin 165mm woofers are employed in our triple chambered hybrid transmission line enclosure. Tuned to 25 Hz, the enclosure enables very tight bass due to the staggered resonances of the three internal chambers which are damped by Dacron polyester stuffing material. Sealed enclosures lack efficiency and dynamics, since ½ of the cone's output is trapped inside the cabinet. However, bass reflex designs are very resonant, with a fat, one-note quality due to air sloshing in and out of the hollow air cavity. The best possible design is the transmission line, which combines the efficiency and speed of ported boxes, with the tight bass of highly damped (sealed) enclosures. Our proprietary triple-chambered design was developed over a period of fifteen years, and is noted for it's extremely tight and accurate bass response due to the staggering of the resonances in three different chambers.

Twin Driver Design:


To further ensure clean bass, we have employed two different bass drivers: a subwoofer with low resonance tuning and a bass-mid woofer using a higher resonance and lighter cone. The 165mm subwoofer employs a very large voice coil and magnet to enable very high power handling at low frequencies and is crossed over at 200 Hz to ensure that the vital midrange area is not affected by the Doppler modulation effect. The upper bass-mid driver has a smaller voice coil and magnet and is optimized as a midrange driver, being crossed over to the tweeter at 2.2 kHz. As we use both of these woofers at low frequencies, their combined power and staggered tuning results in extremely powerful yet detailed bass. The VR-2's bass response far exceeds that of conventional speaker systems in both power and clarity: if you wish to feel the bass drum whacks in classical music or want to hear the deep growl of a Fender electric bass, you will love the VR-2's powerful bass response. If you wish to hear spine tingling sounds like finger prints brushing on cat gut acoustic bass strings in a jazz trio, the VR-2 is your top choice!

MAINDRIVER SYSTEM


As the midrange frequency band is a critical component of sound reproduction, great attention was spent on developing a transducer that could be as transparent as the best electrostatic panel, yet have the warmth of a human voice. Towards that end, we developed a 165mm bass-mid driver that has an extremely light but rigid cone, made from cellulose acetate pulp, plastic, and mica mineral-flake powder. This high-tech composite cone was designed to eliminate cone flex and/or ringing common to other stiff cones made from aluminum or ceramic materials. In addition, to reduce the distortion caused by conventional voice coil motion in a magnetic gap, we have employed a new Low Distortion motor design, which uses FEA (finite element analysis) methods to optimize the voice coil windings, top plate, pole piece, and magnet. To greatly improve the transient response, we also developed a linear suspension system that controls the cone motion, greatly increasing clarity. The end results of these engineering advancements is a midrange frequency band with impressive fidelity and clarity, but without the thin, dry sound passing as "transparency" in competing speaker designs."

So, according to Von Schweikert, one bass - mid woofer and one subwoofer. I guess the enclosure plays a big part in it too (duh :rolleyes: ) :)

I auditioned Definitive Technology more than once and, for a variety of reasons, I didn't care for them. Not trying to dis ya Trey. If we all liked the same thing this wouldn't be a hobby and we'd have nothing to discuss around here. ;) You've moved on from DT recently, right?

[tryrrthg]

Not to worry Halo, you're getting BASS from the VR2's. Very nice speaker, I liked them very much during the time I spent with them. Congrats!

[halo]

I am an enabler!You sure are! :p I heard Rich's LSi's and I was going to upgrade to LSi9's with a sub. Then you had to go and ditch your LSi system in favor of Von Schweikert. :mad: :p ;) :) I remebered my experiencee with them @ decibel audio, saw some low prices for demo's on the gon, and pulled the trigger.
Perhaps you should hang onto the McAlister for better WAF. Put it in the living room and plug those AR's on it. Wanna hear something sweet? I bet that would make a great comboNo room for the big mac up front :( but I bet you're right about a sweet combo.
Just curious, did you the tubes to KT77?Yes I did :D

[Joey_V]

Halo,

Good job with the speaks! Now, you just gotta lug them over my place and we can do a little listening session... A/B comparison even! I'd love to hear the VR2s at my place.

Joey

[halo]

Running them on the TAD-60 right now and the combo sounds excellent. I give a slight edge to the Halo A23 in the bass department but I just plugged the TAD in 20 minutes ago and it takes 30 hours to burn in. It can only get better from here! :D :D :D

[Early B.]

I'm really glad you're enjoying your speakers. Those VR2's on my very, very short list of "dream speakers" along with a pair of Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature System. Since the Tylers are $4,800/pair, I'll probably start with the VR2's.

With the ambient tweeter, do you needs lots of space behind them? How far do you have them from the back wall?

[halo]

Early B - I've got them about 2 feet from the back wall. As I stated before I (still) have not set these up properly. I also have bass traps in the corners behind the speaker. I don't even know if I really need them anymore but it ain't broke so I'm not fixing it (yet).

Anywho, Von Schweikert reccomends setting the ambiant driver dial all the way up during the break in process - so I'm not going to have them set up properly for a while. Even though they aren't in their ideal placement they still sound fantastic. At the prices these are available for now it's definitely a great time to buy. ;)

[fredv]

Running them on the TAD-60 right now and the combo sounds excellent. I give a slight edge to the Halo A23 in the bass department but I just plugged the TAD in 20 minutes ago and it takes 30 hours to burn in. It can only get better from here! :D :D :D

Yup, the bass was the first thing I noticed when I switched from Mac to the TAD-60. It doesn't have the SS amp brute force feel but not lack of bass. I found switching to the KT88/6550 tubes gives a little bit more low end punch but trade off a touch of mid refinement of the EL34 family.

I forgot I mentioned this before or not, I found the TAD-60 sounds the best after a 30 minutes low volume play warm up. This maybe the tube amp characteristics because my Eico HF-87 also sounds the best after 15 min idle and 30 min low volume play time warm up. Even for my fully broken in
TAD, 20 minutes after power on is not in the best state :p Regardless, your TAD must sound better by the time you read this :)

If you keep the amp on, set the CDP in repeat mode, lower the volume, then it should be very close to the 30 hours burn in period by now :D Hey, make sure you try the SET mode and use the NFD dial to tune the sound.

[halo]

Cold, just out of the box, no feedback adjustment, volume maxed, the TAD-60 gave up very little to the Halo A23 in the bottom end. I was listening to nine inch nails all morning into early afternoon and the longer it played the better it got.

Also, I had to turn the volume knob up more on the preamp with the Halo to get the same level @ a lower setting that I'm getting from the TAD. I had a CD on repeat and left it on low volume when we left for the nin concert. Got home after 1 AM and I shut it off. Must be synergy or something :confused: - that TAD is amazing :D .

[Joey_V]

Vincent...

All your talk about the VR2... man... that's just begging to be heard.

Joey

[halo]

Vincent...

All your talk about the VR2... man... that's just begging to be heard.

JoeyWho's Vincent? :confused:

[halo]

My name is Victor and I'm a bassaholic!:D :p

[fredv]

Victor, Vincent, VR2 .. there must be something magic with the alphabet 'V' ... oh yeah, , my last name starts with 'V', too :D

[halo]

Veni Vidi Vici

[VR3]

Im gonna have to go ahead and ask...

What in the hell does Def Tech have to do with anything I said?

My post had nothing to do with DT, however I do have great respect for the midbasses they do use and their enclosure design.

Regardless, glad you are enjoying them and I like transmission lines very much. When done right - they can offer thunderous bass.

[halo]

Sorry Trey - I guess I just thought you were referring to your experience with DT when you made the comment about how it's "Amazing what a REAL* midbass can do".

[VR3]

I was actually commenting on YOUR speakers and your comment on the bass response as I thought they used midbasses.

;)

[halo]

Congrat to the new VR-2. If you happen to biamp them with the A23 and the TAD-60, please let us know how it goes.I've tried two methods of bi-amping the VR-2's and neither worked out.
Sonic Impact on top with the Halo A23 on the bottom = plenty of bass but next to nothing in the high notes. Either the SI doesn't have enough power or the VR-2's aren't efficient enough. That little SI made both the RTA 11T's and 15TL's sing though.

TAD-60 up top and the Halo A23 on the bottom. I tried both UL and triode on the TAD-60 and something just wasn't right. The music just seemed to be missing substance. It sounded OK but not as good as either amp all on it's own.
The TAD didn't sound great with the VR-2's when I switched it to triode mode - guess they aren't effient enough. No complaints on running them in UL mode :)

[steveinaz]

Deep 6 biamping, no need when you have solid components in the first place.

Biamping and biwiring are both novelties I tried many times.....and always went back to a standard configuration, sometimes more is less.

[SCompRacer]

Deep 6 biamping, no need when you have solid components in the first place.



The TAD-60 is a solid component. There isn't a TAD-120 so two TAD-60's in a biamp configuration do sound better than just one. I've heard the difference on a pair of Innersound's.

[Normanality]

Deep 6 biamping, no need when you have solid components in the first place.

Biamping and biwiring are both novelties I tried many times.....and always went back to a standard configuration, sometimes more is less.

"Speaking in Absolutes Indicates a Creator, politician, or jackass" :D

I happen to be on the other side of that fence of the single vs bi-amp issue. When done right, bi-amping or monoblocks can produce a far better sonic experience than any single amp. Of course, there will always be some instances where either extreme may be best.

Victor, I'm sure your bi-amping results were primarily influenced by trying to mix different type of gear together and lost that synergy you spoke of. You were trying to feed those crossovers with specific slopes with amps that act differently at those points. Alone, either sounds better. Try 2 TAD-60's and I'm sure you'll get a completely different result ;)


edit...finished incomplete sentence.

[fredv]

Yeah, I tried the same but just didn't mention. I biamped the Carver with the TAD-60 (ribbon) and the Mac (woofer). Somehow, the sound just didn't blend in and was unnatural for lack of better discription. The Carvers sound better with either amp along than both together. I suppose that's the synergy factor. Paul just sent me the fedex tracking numbers, so myTAD-1000's are on the way - just 2 more loooooong days!!!!

[SCompRacer]

Paul just sent me the fedex tracking numbers, so myTAD-1000's are on the way - just 2 more loooooong days!!!!

:cool: I still have mine....:D

Two McAlisters on the AL-III's were awesome. Did you swap the woofies out of the AL's yet using larger gauge wiring to them?

[halo]

fredv - Are you going to be selling your TAD-60? If so I call dibbs! ;)

[fredv]

Rich,
I haven't swapped out the subs of the AL-III+'s but did replace the cable with some 10 gauge Belden speaker cables. The bass is tighter. I just couldn't believe the original tiny wire - it was not much beefier than the sign wire in my vintage tube amp!!! The new subs will be installed to the older brothers - AL-III, then they will meet my woman :D

Victor,
You will have the first say when I sell the TAD-60. For now, it is still a keeper because it has
an advantage over the 1000 - it is common ground and has incredible sound stage with the SDA 1.2TL. When mated to the 1.2TL, the TAD-60 really rocks the house ;)

[steveinaz]

"Speaking in Absolutes Indicates a Creator, politician, or jackass" :D



Nah, it indicates someone who has experienced it in just about every imaginable configuration--and did not note any gain in "fidelity" just a gain in credit card debt.

But then you also felt the VR-2 didn't have any bass extension, so maybe our ears just work differently.