Need advice concerning audio upgrades.

[dohcmark8]

I am considering getting an amp for my db525's... I have them powered off my HU right now... an Alpine with 18w RMS. It sounds OK but I think these speakers have more potential. Would a 65w RMS amp be too much for these? I dont want to risk blowing them. The amp I am looking at is the Profile AP400.

I will contiue to allow my rear speakers (Crappy Lanzar 3-ways just for fill) to be powered by my HU.

Also I was considering getting a enclosed powered sub like the Kenwood KSC-SW1... I considered a normal sub, but I'm putting this into a '99 Voyager minivan so the only place I can stick a sub is if I could fit one under the drivers or passengers seat... which the Kenwood will do. I am just looking for some bottom end fill.. not serious thump. I often load things in the back and have the rear seats out so this would be my only option.

I understand the implications and downsides of a powered sub and I'm willing to accept them.

I was thinking... the pre outs (My HU only has one pre-out which can be switched between 'sub' and 'front' mode) on my HU set to 'front speakers' to the AP400 which will power the fronts, then use the unfiltered line out on the AP400 for the Kenwood powered sub... the Kenwood has a remote so adjusting it wont be a problem. Alternatively I could use the pre out in sub mode directly to the Kenwood and then use speaker level inputs for the AP400 for the fronts, but i'm thinking this (using speaker level inputs) will degrade sound quality?

Anything else I should be concerned about?

I only listen to rock and maybe some pop. No rap or hip-hop.

Thanks in advance.

[DSkip]

You might check out outpost.com. It's Fry's website and they have the audiobahn a2002t for 30 bucks. Its rated at about 50 watts rms x 2 channels. It's probably a little bit better built amp than the profile amp youre looking at.

I convinced a friend who I gave my old db650s to to order it and we installed it in his car 2 days ago. It sounds great, just as well as they did on my infinity 7520a. If you check out the site frequently, you can find great deals on everything, especially polk gear. For example:

db124 - I bought 2 for 49.99 a piece, but have been as cheap as 19.99 new
c300.2 - Saw an ad right after I bought my infinity amp listed it for 99.99
db650 - Got mine from them over a year ago for 79.99

They even had the JVC dvd head unit w/ build in lcd screen for almost half price at about 400 dollars; usually 700.

These are listed in the fry's paper ad but its the same idea.... when fry's wants to get rid of something, they really cut the price. I frequent the paper ads and the website often.

[dohcmark8]

Thanks. I bought one.

Anyway, how much of a difference did you notice with the amp as compared to just the HU SQ-wise?

[DSkip]

Theres no comparison. The reason speakers sound so good at places like best buy and circuit city has a lot to do with them supplying enough power to them. The head unit doesn't come close to the providing the power to get the most out of aftermarket speakers, and you'll notice as soon as the amp is installed. It will be a lot louder and extremely clear compared to the HU power.

[dohcmark8]

Thanks.

I have weighed my options and now am looking at a Polk db104 mounted in the rear area as opposed to a crappy slim powered sub...

PS... If anyone has an enclosure for a 10" sub on the cheap... feel free to PM me.

[MacLeod]

As for getting a sub, you should definitely go for it. Your music aint complete without one cause a normal 5.25 or even 6.5 wont be able to play the stuff below about 50 Hz and thats the area that gives music its ass.

You can use a second amp with that single pre-out. Just get your a Y-splitter and split the RCA's to both amps.

[dohcmark8]

You can use a second amp with that single pre-out. Just get your a Y-splitter and split the RCA's to both amps.

I was considering doing it that way.. but then wont I lose the ability to control my sub at all?

[MacLeod]

Yes, at least from the HU. You said your sub amp has a remote, you can use that.

Im not a fan of using speaker level inputs. Way to easy to pick up noise.

You could look into upgrading your HU. A good source with a lot of REAL and USABLE features will make a world of difference.

[dohcmark8]

Problem with that is... I did just upgrade my HU.. its less than a month old.. I bought it with no intention of ever adding amps or subs... It's a good HU the Alpine CDE-9843 (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2Gjekto27hA/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=500CDE9843).

So switching HUs is not an option.

And no, if you read again, the Kenwood powered sub I was considering had a remote, but now I'm going with a db104 and the amp ill be using it with probably wont have a remote. Will I really need to adjust the sub that much?

Although.. if I wanted to.. I have a insane HU sitting around... a Pioneer Premiere P930 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069882_37649,00.html).. but it doesnt play MP3s so putting it in the van isnt an option really.

Speaking of which... if anyone wants to make an offer on the P930 send me a PM. I'll probably put up a FS thread for it soon. So will discuss more details then.

[DSkip]

If its less than 30 days some places will let you take it back, so it might be an option, unless of course you did it online.

Its much easier to mess with the subs via the head unit rather than continuously heading to the amp to adjust it. What's good about that is you can listen to different types of music and instantly adjust the bass for it while driving. If you listen to the same type of music, then it might not be that much of a problem for you or if youre just looking for something to fill in the lower notes.

[dohcmark8]

Well I got lucky.. turns out the amp I bought has a remote available for it. So I'll just grab that and all is well. Thanks guys. I'll be back to ask questions about wiring both amps without running too many wires everywhere.

[DSkip]

mark where are you located?

[dohcmark8]

mark where are you located?

My name isnt Mark... my SN is in reference to the Lincoln Mark VIII.

I'm in Ann Arbor, MI.

[1996blackmax]

That is a nice Pioneer HU you have there. I would probably run that instead of the Alpine, that's me though.

You will need to adjust the sub if you listen to a variety of music. I listen to alot of different music, except metal :D , and the sub control comes in very handy. Make sure that the control is for a remote gain feature and not to boost a certain frequency.

[DSkip]

Well my name isnt skip...actually it is, but not the point.

[DSkip]

hey black what is your cardomain site im interested in seeing your ride.

[1996blackmax]

I saw that movie, My Dog Skip....... sad movie....... :(

[dohcmark8]

Well my name isnt skip...actually it is, but not the point.

Whats the point?

:cool:

[DSkip]

Don't remember. Kind of lost the point once I remembered my name.

Not quite Benji was it?

[1996blackmax]

Whats the point?

:cool:


Pre-out's bro.....

[dohcmark8]

Pre-out's bro.....

Gotcha. I will have to do with what I have.

Remember, I'm pimping a seven year old minivan here... :D

[1996blackmax]

I have a 10 year old grocery hauler ;).

[dohcmark8]

Anyway this is the remote here: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-f0YYrCpdMyo/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=237550&I=037ABR100T

If you guys tell me thats no good... I will just grab a remote volume gain dealy off David Navone...

[DSkip]

You sure did edit that fast...

Mine cant haul anything to the corner so you have me beat. All it can do is look pretty and sound good sitting in the driveway right now.

3 cheers for chevy

[dohcmark8]

I have a 10 year old grocery hauler ;).

I over-estimated you guys... I thought I would get at least one 'mommy mobile' comment... :confused:

:p

[1996blackmax]

Kind of tired I guess :D

[1996blackmax]

One very long Monday at work, plus the regular week of hours, then throw a couple of night shifts too.... gotta go to bed...

[1996blackmax]

anyways... I would call Crutchfield to check if it's an actual gain remote or not.

[dohcmark8]

Who wants to see pics of my van?

http://zebsadiq.googlepages.com/voyagerpimpedout

I'm considering putting the stock hubs back on once I finish the system to be more discreet.

[1996blackmax]

Some serious potential with that thing :D


BOOOOOM

j/k


One sub will be plenty of boom, but if you wanted more you could fit alot more sub in there.

[DSkip]

Give me two years I'll be in one too.

My fiance already ended my midnight trips to the casino poker tables.

[DSkip]

blackmax.... i see you had the pioneer 8600; i have the 860 and thats whats giving me all the problems. Did you ever have any noise problems with that unit?

[dohcmark8]

Give me two years I'll be in one too.



It's not all bad. I havent 'lost' anything driving one... :D

Plus.. lotsa room for upgraded audio gear.. you'd have the best sounding mini at the soccer meets... *ducks* :p

Although, I'm 19, and single (no kids) and I ended up with it... so I'm doing with what I got which is a minivan. :D

[1996blackmax]

blackmax.... i see you had the pioneer 8600; i have the 860 and thats whats giving me all the problems. Did you ever have any noise problems with that unit?


No, my Pioneer unit did not have any noise issues.

[dohcmark8]

Anyone know of a good enclosure for the db104? or will a generic 10" Q-logic work fine?

[1996blackmax]

If I were you I would look around town as even the prefab boxes that are sold at the mom and pop shops are better than the Q-logic ones. I picked mine up from a local shop for $40 dollars. I have my 12" sub in it and it's made of 3/4" MDF, carpeted, and has the wiring terminal. No air leaks whatsoever, that is not something I could say about all of the different Q-Logic boxes I have purchased over the years. Even if you have to use some silicone on the local box, it is still cheaper than the Q-Logic ones. I had to use silicone on all my Q-logic boxes.



http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/482000-482999/482517_238.jpg

[dohcmark8]

Thanks. Nice Maxima BTW.

[1996blackmax]

Thank you Sir :).

[dohcmark8]

Alright picked up a MTX 2 channel to power the fronts and the Audiobahn will be powering the db104 @ 200w rms x 1 bridged. Looking like a decent system so far.

I'm gonna pick up a remote volume control dealy from David Navone and controlling the sub shouldnt be a problem.

[1996blackmax]

Which MTX amp did you get? I had a couple their amps a little whilie back, good amplifiers.

[dohcmark8]

MTX Thunder 202. Weakest 2 channel I could find at 37.5w rms x 2. Should do the db525's upfront justice. Plus it will fit snugly under the drivers seat.

[DSkip]

Im a big fan of mtx amps, just not much else they carry.

Im running the 564 to biamp momo comps and the 942 to power the db124's.

I had a 311D and the length of time it could run in 100 degree weather with no a/c was incredible to me

[dohcmark8]

Ok I'm plotting out the wiring I will need... I have everything I need... except for one thing...

I will be running 4 awg power wire from the battery. Can I just splice the power wires from both amps directly into the main 4awg power wire? Or do I HAVE to use a distribution block? Ofcourse each power wire will have its own inline fuse. What fuse ratings will I need?

BTW.. I'm going with KnuKonceptz wiring.

[exalted512]

you dont have to use a distribution block, but since you can pick up one at walmart for like 10 bucks, why not?

[dohcmark8]

you dont have to use a distribution block, but since you can pick up one at walmart for like 10 bucks, why not?

Thanks I may get one.. just NOT from Wal-Mart. :)

What about fuse ratings?

[1996blackmax]

Go with what the amps have.

[dohcmark8]

Got the Audiobahn amp today... not bad at all.. pretty impressed, build quality looks decent and the included instructions were very detailed.

All I'm waiting on now is my db104 and MTX amp to arrive. I will be purchasing the enclosure and power wires locally. And hopefully will begin installing this on Sunday... at which point I'll probably be deaf from the Nickelback concert I am gonna see the day before... :D

[MacLeod]

Got the Audiobahn amp today... not bad at all.. pretty impressed, build quality looks decent and the included instructions were very detailed.

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/wuerg/vomit-smiley-001.gif

Ya couldve done better bro. Oh well, at least its got chrome flames. ;)

[DSkip]

No chrome flames on it... and for 30 bucks for a brand new well-built, well-known amp for someone on a budget, what could be better? Thats like no-risk right there.

[MacLeod]

OK. I missed the $30 part. In that case, yeah, you cant really go wrong.

[dohcmark8]

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/wuerg/vomit-smiley-001.gif

Ya couldve done better bro. Oh well, at least its got chrome flames. ;)

Nope. Not on my budget. :D

It was only $30 brand new too. It has no chrome flames. Just a nice silver finish. And it has a fan for cooling.. who knows how well it works, but at least its there.

The quality of product is MUCH better than the Power Acoustik Gothic I used to have in my old car. No, I would never buy Power Acoustik.. it came with the car. I will never understand the thinking behind the moron who put together the system in it... the front and rear speakers were shitty Lanzars, the subs were 12" Pyramids, the amp was Power Acoustik.. but get this.. the HU was a high end king of the hill Pioneer Premiere P930... :confused:

[1996blackmax]

I remember when Lanzar was actually a pretty good name....

[dohcmark8]

Alright. I have everything I need. Just waiting on UPS for the Knukonceptz wiring and distribution block.

I'll take pics along the way and I will be installing next week hopefully.

This will be my first real system. One that doesnt have any ghetto setups or wiring or anything. :)

With the amount I spent.. just a tad over $500 this will not be a bad system I hope. All the stuff was brand new.

Dash speakers - Polk db525
Rear speakers (faded wayyy down) - Lanzar VX693 [Had em laying around from my Probe]
Amps - two A2002T Audiobahn amps [50x2 stereo RMS, and 200x1 bridged RMS] (the MTX turned out to be a bum item)
Wiring - Knukonceptz.
Sub - Polk db104
Sub enclosure - RT sealed 10" @ .75 cu ft

That should be it.

[exalted512]

sounds like a great starter system to me
-Cody

[dohcmark8]

sounds like a great starter system to me
-Cody

Thanks.

I'm in it for the long haul AND SQ... boy this will get expensive...

[exalted512]

Thanks.

I'm in it for the long haul AND SQ... boy this will get expensive...
get a job at an audio shop, its a little less expensive, but then you start buying stuff youd never buy unless you got a big discount...
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Thanks.

I'm in it for the long haul AND SQ... boy this will get expensive...

Tell me about it.

Just when you think youve got all you need you either (1) discover something you cannot live without like a $750 processor or (2) just get bored with the stuff youve already got and have an unbearable urge to upgrade.

[1996blackmax]

I downgraded with my last switch........

[DSkip]

I used to think 500 was a lot to invest in a car audio system... I spent that on my head unit alone. Ive gone from about 300 spent in a ranger to 2000 +/- in my camaro. If I could just fight the urge for upgrading....

I dont think Ill be content until I have a full SR setup in the car... maybe not even then.

[1996blackmax]

The thing is to try to make smart choices with you money. You could spend a certain amount on a certain audio component, and then find that a lower priced one will actually outperform or match that component. Just something to keep in mind.

[dohcmark8]

I do have a question though.

For the turn-on lead... can I just splice it into both amps?

[exalted512]

yes.

[dohcmark8]

Thanks.

From what I understand, two amps is fine, but any more and you need a relay?

[MacLeod]

Not really. Ive ran 4 amps before off a single turn on lead before.

All you have to do really is hook em up to the one remote. If it doesnt work, get a relay.

[DSkip]

How is that system looking? Is it in yet?

[dohcmark8]

Thanks for asking.

I started the wiring tonight. It's a piece of cake so far. Had no trouble finding space in the factory grommet to run the power wire. Running the RCAs, turn on lead and speaker wire was very simple. It's all nice and hidden, you cant see anything.

I got as far as running the power wire for the second amp in the back from my distribution block. But thats it for tonight. It's 4am and I gotta get some sleep.

Working on this van is so damn easy.

I'll post pics tomorrow.

And really, thanks to all of you, I could not of done this without you.

[dohcmark8]

Pics here: http://zebsadiq.googlepages.com/vanamp

All done. Sounds better than I expected. I'm very happy.

All thats left is just mounting the amps to the floor.

[DSkip]

It looks good as far as I could see... where are the amps located? under the seats?

[dohcmark8]

Amp for fronts is under drivers seat. Sub amp will be re-located to the side of the sub enclosure tomorrow once I get my hands on a drill.

And I'll also snap some pics in the daytime. The night pics look messy.