WALMART: The HIGH Cost Of low Prices

[aaharvel]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8999161366242516685

[PhantomOG]

holy crap... 1 hr 37 min. cliff notes anyone?

[Demiurge]

Thanks for reminding me to stop there on the way home. :D

[ND13]

Andrew, please tell me you didn't actually sit there and watch all of that.

[tommyboy]

watch south park, they give a great point of why wal-mart is the way it is now.

I don't shop at wal-mart but the problem isn't them, its us. Wal-mart would not be one of the richest companies if it wasn't for us. If you hate wal-mart, don't shop there.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

What's wrong with WalMart?

I buy groceries and motor oil there for about half the price I can buy the exact same stuff elsewhere...

[PhantomOG]

What's wrong with WalMart?

I buy groceries and motor oil there for about half the price I can buy the exact same stuff elsewhere...

because all the poor saps that work there don't get paid well and have no health insurance, because all the mom-and-pop stores can't compete.

boo-hoo... that's why I went to college and don't plan on trying to make a living selling motor oil and toilet paper. :D

no offense intended to anyone! :p

[ND13]

I have a hard time believing that the FULL-time Wal-Mart employees don't have health insurance available to them.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I worked at a local grocery store and a Wal-Mart while in high school. I made $5.22 at the grocery store and $6.50 at the Wal-Mart - doing the same thing...

If they mom and pop store want to be more successful, maybe they need to be more innovative - offers products and services that Wal-Mart cannot due to it's size...

I used to try to buy from the hometown stores when i could, but have ultimately found that service in the big box stores is often times superior...

[PhantomOG]

I have a hard time believing that the FULL-time Wal-Mart employees don't have health insurance available to them.

I believe Wal-Mart tries to maximize its part-time to full-time ratio, and thus the complaints. but seriously, have you seen the workforce at your local wal-mart? how hard would it be to work you way through those ranks and get a full-time position?

[ND13]

I but seriously, have you seen the workforce at your local wal-mart?

NO!!!!! I try never to make eye contact with any of them:p :D ;)

[bobman1235]

Free market. If they piss enough people off they cease to exist, if not.... T.S. for the haters.

[aaharvel]

Yes, I did watch in it's entirity. All I can say it's a serious shot of truth-serum to anyone willing to take the time to get educated.

I'd like to add that this video is no way political, NO WAY political, and in no way anti-capitalism or anti-free market. Actually it's very pro-American, and that's why I enjoyed it so much.

[F1nut]

FUCK Walmart and all you assholes who shop there!

[TroyD]

I feel dumber every time I leave Wal-mart.

As a side note, I don't feel that Wal-mart is any less evil than Star-bucks who bends over every customer that walks through the door and nails them in the keister so they can profess to be a company that cares about it's workers.

Simple, if you don't like a store, don't shop there.


BDT

[DarqueKnight]

That's it! I'm finally convinced that WalMart is an evil empire. I'm selling all my Wal-Mart stock immediately. (Well, maybe not immediately...I think my broker is on vacation for three weeks, but as soon as he gets back and can put me on his schedule.... )

[Demiurge]

That's it! I'm finally convinced that WalMart is an evil empire. I'm selling all my Wal-Mart stock immediately. (Well, maybe not immediately...I think my broker is on vacation for three weeks, but as soon as he gets back and can put me on his schedule.... )

haha!

[Strong Bad]

FUCK Walmart and all you assholes who shop there!


Will you kiss me first? Will you cuddle afterwards? ;)

[F1nut]

Only you John. Hell, I'll even give ya a reach around. ;)

[aaharvel]

That's it! I'm finally convinced that WalMart is an evil empire. I'm selling all my Wal-Mart stock immediately. (Well, maybe not immediately...I think my broker is on vacation for three weeks, but as soon as he gets back and can put me on his schedule.... )

lmao

[amulford]

We got into this big to do over in CA about Wal Mart. F#ck 'em...

[first capital]

Go to 1:36:54 of the film and see who sponsered it. They are far from being lilly white but how many of us do not buy goods from third world nations.

[Shizelbs]

I never, never shop at Walmart. There isn't one close to me.

[MacLeod]

Walmart is the devil and Ill give you 2 reasons why.

1) Their management is the single largest collection of assholes on the planet! Im a distributor and I deliver and work with these gawdawful places. It seems like they live to make your life miserable and abuse you. We have 3 other grocery chains in my area and all 3 are just fine to deal with and are easy to get along with. Not Walmart. They treat vendors and most of their employees like shit.

A couple small examples. Some have a rule of no more than 1 vendor inside the receiving area at a time. So youd have to wait outside for up to 45 minutes. Then when they finally let you in and you start getting together your empty pallets an credits, they come over and yell at you for taking too long! Youre thinking "this is what I wouldve been doing while you had me sitting outside for 45 minutes!!"

The Pepsi merchandiser was told to pull out all his pallets and sweep and mop the floor. He said "get bent" because he is a merchandiser and not a janitor. The store manager called the local Pepsi house and told them the merchandiser was no longer allowed in their store and to get somebody in there that will mop their floors or come pull ALL their Pepsi products out.

I could go on, but you get the drift. They were born assholes and just grew bigger!

2) Walmart is famous for wanting to expand or build a Supercenter on land already owned by a little old lady. The little old lady doesnt want to sell so Walmart goes to the local government and tells them, "hey youve got Ethel over here on land she owns paying you $1000 a year in property taxes. You guys condemn that property and give it to us and we'll build a Walmart and stip mall and youll get hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in taxes". Well many more times than not, the local government goes along with it.

Therefore we do not support or shop at Walmart at all!

[opus]

FUCK Walmart and all you assholes who shop there!


I'll tell my wife and my daughter that you told them to fuck off.

[danger boy]

they want to build a Wal Mart next to my work.. i can't wait. the neighbors are putting up a big ass fight though. So it may never get built. If it does.. it'll completly destroy the Shopko already there.

I don't think Wal Mart is evil. Their prices are pretty good. Starbucks is evil. their prices are high.. luckily i don't drink coffee/espresso/latte's, etc.

[MacLeod]

I agree that its lame to hate them because they "put other stores out of business". Its the people that no longer shop at the local stores that are doing that.

I just hate them because theyre a bunch of assholes AND they have no respect for and are taking a lead in ripping away our private property rights.

[shack]

FUCK Walmart and all you assholes who shop there!

Not only do I shop at Wal-Mart, I'm a stockholder. Wal-Mart IS capitalism. It is an efficient economic system...much like natural selection...survival of the fittest/strongest. I persoanlly wouldn't want it any other way.

[aaharvel]

Walmart is the devil and Ill give you 2 reasons why.

1) Their management is the single largest collection of assholes on the planet! Im a distributor and I deliver and work with these gawdawful places. It seems like they live to make your life miserable and abuse you. We have 3 other grocery chains in my area and all 3 are just fine to deal with and are easy to get along with. Not Walmart. They treat vendors and most of their employees like shit.

A couple small examples. Some have a rule of no more than 1 vendor inside the receiving area at a time. So youd have to wait outside for up to 45 minutes. Then when they finally let you in and you start getting together your empty pallets an credits, they come over and yell at you for taking too long! Youre thinking "this is what I wouldve been doing while you had me sitting outside for 45 minutes!!"

The Pepsi merchandiser was told to pull out all his pallets and sweep and mop the floor. He said "get bent" because he is a merchandiser and not a janitor. The store manager called the local Pepsi house and told them the merchandiser was no longer allowed in their store and to get somebody in there that will mop their floors or come pull ALL their Pepsi products out.

I could go on, but you get the drift. They were born assholes and just grew bigger!

2) Walmart is famous for wanting to expand or build a Supercenter on land already owned by a little old lady. The little old lady doesnt want to sell so Walmart goes to the local government and tells them, "hey youve got Ethel over here on land she owns paying you $1000 a year in property taxes. You guys condemn that property and give it to us and we'll build a Walmart and stip mall and youll get hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in taxes". Well many more times than not, the local government goes along with it.

Therefore we do not support or shop at Walmart at all!

...and that's just scratching the surface of what that film gets into.

[Demiurge]

I have a love hate relationship with them. They use muscle in a way that's just unethical in business, but on the other hand they do one hell of a job taking care of the customer and giving them what they want.

I don't hear people bitching about Target, and they're not hurting at all despite WalMart...

[aaharvel]

I don't hear people bitching about Target, and they're not hurting at all despite WalMart...

"Target Corporation is consistently ranked as one of the most philanthropic companies in the country. According to a November 2005 Forbes article, it ranked as the highest cash giving company in America in percentage of income given (2.1%). Target donates around five percent of their pre-tax operating profit; it gives over $2 million a week in the communities it operates in.

During disasters, Target Corporation is a major benefactor for relief efforts. Target provided monetary and product donations during the September 11th terrorist attacks on the U.S.; it also donated money for relief efforts for the tsunami in South Asia. Most recently, Target donated $1.5 million (U.S.) to the American Red Cross in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005. It also allowed its store properties in the affected area to be used as command centers for relief organizations. It also donated supplies such as water and bug spray. Besides these major disasters, Target also regularly lends its support to disasters that are not as well known or only affect a regional area."

Wikipedia- Target

Walmart, a much bigger company, makes a much bigger annual profit than Target, yet gives much less. Not to mention what MacLeod said in bullying others for land. I've never heard of a Target, or even a K-Mart do that.

In the film, it shows that Walmart employees give more to their community and to each other than the company itself. Sad.

[DarqueKnight]

They [Wal-Mart]use muscle in a way that's just unethical in business....

How many of you use Microsoft software?

[danger boy]

i'm heading to Wal Mart... seriously. i am. see ya later :D

[unc2701]

My dad was an excutive for one of the biggest clothing manufactures for about 20 years- he's convinced Walmart is the reason that all our manufacturing is going overseas.

Plus their dirty business practices aren't restricted to buying land.

Them: "we want 100,000 packs of tshirts at $3 each"
Dad: "Ok"
[they make tshirts, put them on truck as truck is pulling into walmart warehouse, he gets a call]
Them: "We're gonna pay you $2.75 each"
Dad: "uhh.... you said $3"
Them: "Well, we don't want them anyway... and cancel all our other orders"

Fruit of the loom (not my dad's company) went bankrupt due, in part, to this bullshit.

[schwarcw]

I'm going to buy some Walmart stock. They sound like good business people. I want a piece of that action.

[mrbigbluelight]

don't have their heads in the sand.

"Levis" are now made overseas due to Walmart's DEMAND that they deliver to Walmart jeans at $x.xx per unit. It would have only been slightly higher to have the same jeans made in America, a fact that Levis pointed out to Walmart. The slightly higher price would still have been the cost leader for jeans in that particular market niche.

Walmart wouldn't budge. So enjoy your Chinese jeans.

A lot of vendors hate doing business with Walmart because of their cut-your-throat attitude.

[lomic]

Yes, Wal-Mart is capitalism, but we no longer live in the dark age where Capitalism = Good, Socialism = Bad. Most reasonable people agree that while capitalism is good because it encourages innovation, it is a system that exists at the expense of employees, both at retail and manufacturing levels.

It is because we and other first world countries industrialized early and treated workers like crap that we're still riding on that massive wave of capital. It seems more and more the US is simply in the business of business, without actually producing anything. I work at a specialty retailer and the _ONLY_ thing we sell that's made in the US is Kodak film and leather photo albums from Maine. Our last inventory was around 6500 items, a total of about 100 of which are made in the US.

I've only been in a Wal-Mart once, after 9/11 I had to drive back to California from Virginia - I was supposed to fly out of Dulles to SJ at 12:10 on 9/11 - and it was literally the only place to get things in a lot of towns along the way. I simply didn't like the feel of being in their store for some reason, and that was before I knew about their business practices.

I admit I'm not in the situation where I'm trying to support 3 kids on $20k/year, so maybe I just don't understand what Wal-Mart does for people who have to scrape by - but I also see a lot of shopaholics who buy useless crap and just consume, consume, consume. I try to only make substantial purchases of things I'll use - and that will last - for years. I'm not trying to look down from a high horse, but I wish people would learn more temperance in their shopping. I guess I'm just lucky that I've learned by 25 that items don't make me happy for more than a day.

[TroyD]

Capitalism exists at the expense of the employees?? And socialism doesn't??

Ok, let's chat about the evils of working at Wal-Mart. These mouth-breathers that work there; ok; in most cases, I don't think that the vast majority would be similarly employed elsewhere. I mean, it's not like they are conscripts. They can leave and try thier hand someplace else (which wouldn't necessarily be the case in a Marxist regime). So, as far as Walmart being evil to work for, whatever. At least they have the opportunity to get on full time in which case they ARE eligible for benefits and health insurance which many small businesses (ie Mom and Pop) do not. Don't for a second think that Mom and Pop businesses are all that altruistic. For example, Aubuchon Hardware in Wells, Maine. Screwed people for YEARS, why? Because they COULD. Come Memorial Day, when the tourists came to town, prices went up 20%..just because. Now, there was a couple of folks that worked for Mr A. for years, I can tell you that they were not paid well nor did they have any sort of benefits. Mr. A, however, drove a new sports car every year and vacationed around the world. Yup, he was a GREAT guy. Lowe's moved in just a few miles up the road, his employees went there, got paid better and with benefits. Good for them, Eff Aubuchon. Now, moral is, for every good 'Mom and Pop' I can probably show you a greedy asshole like Aubuchon. In which case, I'll support Lowe's. Why? Because by patronizing Lowe's, I'm putting money in the stockholder's pockets...people like me. Not rich by any means. I shop at Aubuchon's, I'm putting money into his new Porsche.

Now, don't get me started on the friggin' Marxists. Anyone who does NOT see how that's played out in practice needs to get a head exam.

Next, ok. Let's take Levi's. They want to sell thier jeans to Dillards at 20 bucks a pair. Dillards wants to sell them at 75. Walmart say, I'll pay you 10 and they sell them at 25. What's the problem? Levi's is going to sell a HELL of a lot more jeans. Don't start about production going overseas because that happened LONG before WalMart came to town. I remember my parents bitching about crap being made in Taiwan when I was a kid, some 30 years ago. If you let the market regulate employment and consumption. Does Dillards pay thier cashiers any better? Pffft. So where is the benefit of paying an extra fifty bucks for a pair of pants? Certainly not to me. I doubt that the cashiers at Dilliards are make disproportionately more.

Ok, so we get to the poor bastard working in the factory producing said item. (that's where the argument tends to lead). The US auto industry is a shining example of why it's bad to pay an artifically high wage. Sure, it's all well and good that they guys sweeping the floor in the GM plant can afford to send his kids to Ivy League schools AND his second home up on the lake.....sure as hell doesn't do much for the guy trying to BUY one of GM's cars. The US auto industry is in the shitter in no small part because they have successfully priced themselves out and labor costs are one major factor.

Again, why should I feel bad about shopping at Walmart?

BDT

[bobman1235]

they want to build a Wal Mart next to my work.. i can't wait. the neighbors are putting up a big ass fight though. So it may never get built. If it does.. it'll completly destroy the Shopko already there.

I don't think Wal Mart is evil. Their prices are pretty good. Starbucks is evil. their prices are high.. luckily i don't drink coffee/espresso/latte's, etc.

There's nothing EVIL about Starbucks. People just like to pretend therer is. First of all, it's a COFFEE shop, not a place that sells NECESSITIES like walmart. SECOND, a cup of COFFEE at Starbucks costs less than at most other places, people just insist on buying fruity la-dee-dah drinks at *$ that cost an arm and a leg.

If you were selling coffee, and you could add a squirt of cocoa to your coffee and charge 4x the amount, you wouldn't?

Starbucks is supposed to be one of the best companies in teh country to work for. They treat their employees great, they have a knowledgable group of employees for the most part.... the only thing they do that could be considered "wrong" is put "mom and pop" coffee places out of business, but that's PURE capitalism. Hell, they're not even like walmart, putting places out of business by having "unfairly" low prices. They just have a better product.

[ND13]

don't have their heads in the sand.

"Levis" are now made overseas due to Walmart's DEMAND that they deliver to Walmart jeans at $x.xx per unit. It would have only been slightly higher to have the same jeans made in America, a fact that Levis pointed out to Walmart. The slightly higher price would still have been the cost leader for jeans in that particular market niche.

Walmart wouldn't budge. So enjoy your Chinese jeans.

A lot of vendors hate doing business with Walmart because of their cut-your-throat attitude.

Sorry, but that's the choice of Levis. They don't need to use Wal-Mart as an outlet in order to sell their jeans. They are, by far, the most recognized jeans manufacturer in the world. If they want to use WM as an outlet then they'll have to do what it takes to sell to them at the required price, but it's their choice.

[shack]

If not Wal-Mart, it WOULD have been someone else. Don't think for a minute that Mom-n-Pop stores and the US textile industries would have continued had it not been for the evil Wal-Mart. I suppose you would like to blame the demise of the US Steel industy and loss of jobs to foreign labor on Wal-Mart too? Protectionism of US jobs in a capitalistic economy simply will not work....The consumers will not stand for the results of a protectionist policy...no matter what your pro-labor folks tell you.

[TroyD]

The consumers will not stand for the results of a protectionist policy...no matter what your pro-labor folks tell you.

Exactly....

BDT

[unc2701]

Sorry, but that's the choice of Levis. They don't need to use Wal-Mart as an outlet in order to sell their jeans. They are, by far, the most recognized jeans manufacturer in the world. If they want to use WM as an outlet then they'll have to do what it takes to sell to them at the required price, but it's their choice.

See that's where you're wrong. Walmart has such a huge market share on everything, that companies become dependent. Let say 80% (not unreasonable) of levis sold are sold through walmart and they're paying $15 a pair to levis... then walmart says that they're gonna drop their price to $10... Then $7.50. Sure Levis can say no, but they'll take such a huge hit that it'll put them under. So Levis has to drop costs somehow and that's when they move to china.

In 2003 Walmart accounted for 2.5% of the US GNP and 19% of all groceries sold. I'm still trying to verify, but the number for last year was more like 5% of the GNP.

[heiney9]

NO!!!!! I try never to make eye contact with any of them:p :D ;)

Or the customers either :eek: . I don't mean to generalize but in my area one of the reasons I don't shop at Walmart is the people who go there. Oh my god it's like walking into the bar in the first Star Wars movie. Rude, obnoxius, unkempt, loud, selfish and did I mention rude. Sure those types of people are everywhere, but Walmart seems to attract a much higher ratio. I have one within a mile of my place and I tend to go all the way accross town to Target. I will stop there occasionally for a quick item (which is impossible because of the size of the store) on the way to visit my parents. Otherwise, I really have a huge distaste for Walmart. And if you really do some research they really aren't the lowest priced on most items. I've found other national chains to be similar in price and selection and sometimes even lower priced.

To each their own......and as someone stated earlier it's the customers willingness to shop there that has made them successful. Labor practices are better but that's only because they got caught and that nasty dispute with Master card is settled too. My bank debit card is Master card and Walmart refused to honor it before the dispute was settled. I was deathly ill and was picking up a prescription, which I waited around for almost 30 minutes. I get up to the check-out with some liquids to rehydrate myself and the prescription feeling like sh*t, pull out my card, and she says we don't take those. I had no cash or checkbook with me. I had to leave and go home and come back. This was about 3 years ago and ever since I've avoided them.

Come to find out they were having a huge dispute with Master card about the fee's they had to pay to accept MC. WTF, MC can't be anymore than Visa or Discover. Walmart just wanted to flex their muscle and I believe in the end they lost or it was a stale mate or something.

H9

[ND13]

See that's where you're wrong. Walmart has such a huge market share on everything, that companies become dependent. Let say 80% (not unreasonable) of levis sold are sold through walmart and they're paying $15 a pair to levis... then walmart says that they're gonna drop their price to $10... Then $7.50. Sure Levis can say no, but they'll take such a huge hit that it'll put them under. So Levis has to drop costs somehow and that's when they move to china.

In 2003 Walmart accounted for 2.5% of the US GNP and 19% of all groceries sold. I'm still trying to verify, but the number for last year was more like 5% of the GNP.


I don't think I am wrong. Levis just started showing up in Wal-Marts around here in the last two years and they only sell the low-end of the line. They don't sell the 501s, 505s, 517s, etc,etc. Levis would do just fine without Wal Mart as an outlet. If your logic was true, then Tommy, Calvin Klein, Lees and others would have to sell to Wal Mart in order to remain competetive. Wal-Mart only sells the low end Levis, Wrangler, and off brand jeans. They do not compete with the Dept Stores for the mid to high end lines of clothing.

Do you buy your clothes at Wal-Mart???

[unc2701]

Ok, levis might be a bad example, but that's exactly what happens with most their suppliers.

[Holydoc]

Hmm...hate being a minority, but I love Walmarts. In our small town, it contains all your necessities for a price cheaper than anywhere else. Before Walmart, everyone was complaining here about the high price of everything we bought. Heck you were lucky to be able to afford a couple pairs of pants and shirts for your children when they started school. Now you can feel confident that you can at least send your kids to school dressed. Not to mention, that DVD's are cheap..CHEAP....CHEAP!

If you feel they do not pay their employees well, then why work there? Go somewhere else. If you do not like the store then do not purchase from them.

Today, I do not buy any of my clothes nor any of my electronics from them. But as far as other consumables, Walmart is the way to go. Of course I am always open for change. If Walmart starts carrying higher end stuff, you may see me there looking for a parking spot.

*shrug*

[ND13]

I only buy specific types of products from Wal-Mart. In the town I live in, I'd have to drive at least 35-45 minutes in order to shop for them elsewhere. That's not Wal-Mart's fault. The problem around here is that the customers that use to shop at K-Mart(the one's that H9 is talking about)no longer can, so they have to go to Wal-Mart. The closest k-Mart is 45 minutes away. Same for Target. We're supposedly getting a Lowes here, soon.

[wingnut4772]

It's just evolution. Wallmart takes the world by storm for a while and then the next cycle, people realize that you get what you pay for and start to want the smaller stores to get better service etc. I like the prices of Wallmart but I HATE shopping there. It's a zoo.

[sucks2beme]

I seldom go there since they added groceries. The place is a zoo, and the wait at the register is outrageous. If I do go, it's late at night during "creepshow" hours. There seems to be one around every corner here in Dallas/Ft. Worth. Like Best Buy and Home Depot, there will be a huge crash
when cunsumer spending slows up even a little. All these retailers have expanded so much that their main competition is their own stores cross town!

[aaharvel]

At least they have the opportunity to get on full time in which case they ARE eligible for benefits and health insurance which many small businesses (ie Mom and Pop) do not.

Too bad that Walmart defines full-time as 28hours now. And guess what? It doesn't include benefits. The average salary of a full-time employee is just over $13,000. Benefits and health insurance? Only to those few employees that actually do work 40plus hours, PLUS because Wal-mart doesn't pay overtime either. Individuals on a $13,000 avg. income can't afford Walmart's benefits and health insurance programs.

We can play these games of Walmart Good, Walmart Evil all day long, but until one actually put their presumptions aside about a company they've never worked for and actually listen to those that have, then nothing gets better, just stays the same. :)

http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html

[Demiurge]

I only buy specific types of products from Wal-Mart. In the town I live in, I'd have to drive at least 35-45 minutes in order to shop for them elsewhere. That's not Wal-Mart's fault. The problem around here is that the customers that use to shop at K-Mart(the one's that H9 is talking about)no longer can, so they have to go to Wal-Mart. The closest k-Mart is 45 minutes away. Same for Target. We're supposedly getting a Lowes here, soon.

Same here, man. Same here.

To DarqueNight -

You're probably misunderstanding what I am saying. I'm not at all against the Capitalistic nature of WalMart, I mean are you kidding me? It's Demiurge posting! I'm about as pro-business and pro-capitalism as you can get.

What I have a beef with WalMart about it how they hijack their vendors. It's not at all the muscle that they use to get the lowest price, that is capitalism. It's about how they pay.

In business we have terms which companies agree with. If I am a small distributor, or even an exclusive distributor of a product WalMart can ass rape me really hard by hijacking the payment terms.

The standard, almost across the board, is Net 30 terms. It means that 30 days from the date of the invoice (generally the day the item ships) the balance is due. If WalMart is extendet $500,000 in a month (more or less) that puts a gigantic strain on the vendor when they don't see a payment in 90 days. THAT is what ultimately puts businesses under these days. When you can't pay your bills because WalMart isn't paying you it's a huge business ethics problem.

I deal with this problem all of the time in my business and I am not dealing with WalMart. Companies like Boeing, Pratt & Whitney, and Lockheed Martin still do the ethical thing by not holding their vendors' payments hostage. General Motors, Ford, and a few other corporate giants that I dfeal with sometimes take up to 90 days to pay.

What can I do? Say we can't do business? Fat chance, we rely on their orders despite their payment history. Can I try to impose finance charges for overdue invoices? Fat chance, they won't pay it, and you won't have the capital to fight it.

Companies like WalMart have vendors by the balls. That's where they are unethical. I'm pretty conscious about what I do or do not buy from WalMart. WalMart has a lot of good and a lot of bad, but that's what comes from being that size.

[reeltrouble1]

Just for Demi!!

F-Target!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really dont like Target, its a personal thing, I was trying to raise some dough for a charity involved with veterans and they told me they did not consider veterans an appropriate group to donate cash too.

Wal-Mart---well I avoid the place, the prices might be a bit lower, but the service/staff/management at my local one is pretty bad. I just cant take the long lines and the generally pissed off folks I see working there.

When I retire I am considering being a greeter though, I want to put those stickers all over some of the babes body parts!!! Yes I am a bad man.

RT1

[Demiurge]

"Target Corporation is consistently ranked as one of the most philanthropic companies...blah...blah...blah

The point is that WalMart being #1 they get all of the attention. I guarantee if it's Target someone is making a video about all the bad things Target does. WalMart has good and bad qualities.

[aaharvel]

Just for Demi!!

F-Target!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really dont like Target, its a personal thing, I was trying to raise some dough for a charity involved with veterans and they told me they did not consider veterans an appropriate group to donate cash too.RT1

I don't understand. You work/ed for Target and they said no to you about raising money on their property? :confused:

I thought Target, as a company, supported Veteran groups. I gave to a veterans cause they sponsored last Christmas here in Greensboro. :confused: http://sites.target.com/site/en/corporate/page.jsp?contentId=PRD03-001461

(edit) Demi that's true. That is the price of being #1. But with being #1 also comes at least some sort of corporate responsibility. To the vendor, worker, community, etc. It's not like Target is #125 on the list. I believe they're right behind Walmart, and thus they're not immune from the spotlight either. I'm sure they're not perfect either, what company is- it's just I've never heard of Target's practices be this bad.

[Demiurge]

IIRC Target was offended by the word Christmas. I wonder if they're offended by the vacation they get for Christmas. I think there was a big to do about the Salvation Army.

[aaharvel]

You're right. The Christmas thing was to not offend anyone who weren't Christian shoppers?

The only problem with that logic is that it's a federal holiday, and secondly... most people don't care. It's consumerism for godsakes not idealism. They should call it what it is. Christmas. Period. I mean i'm Agnostic (that's not Athiesm btw) and I like the word Christmas. I like the holiday Christmas.

Like I said, no company is perfect. I think "Happy Holidays" is a fine statement. But really, on December 24/25, call it what it is.

btw, Walmart brass still instructs it's employees to say "Happy Holidays" too.

[Refefer]

It's an early christmas, here are a bunch of links:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/open_snapper.html - a real story about the Snapper tractor company.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51521-2005Apr13.html?nav=hcmodule - A story about how Wal-Mart closed a store because it's employees voted to unionize... and Wal-mart would HATE that.

http://tianews.blogspot.com/2004/11/great-wal-mart-of-china-part-ii.html - A good read for those interested in "The Great Wal-mart of China"

http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores2.html - Store Wars: A very well documented and well known case of the Wal-mart effect. A very good read.

That is all

[reeltrouble1]

No Aaharvel I did not work for Target, a group I was associated with simply contacted them to raise funds for the charity and was told they did not consider american war veterans charities a worthy cause.

If questioned I am sure they would point to the charities they donate too, its their business, like I said its a personal thing with me I am not wanting anybody to not shop there or whatever.

I really dont think Wal-Mart is going to win any awards for there business ethics with mom and pops, vendors and so on. The fact that they just lost a huge class action regarding employees right to lunches is well documented. I avoid the place. But again that is my decision and if anyone else wants to shop there its there's.

RT1

[TroyD]

Too bad that Walmart defines full-time as 28hours now. And guess what? It doesn't include benefits. The average salary of a full-time employee is just over $13,000. Benefits and health insurance? Only to those few employees that actually do work 40plus hours, PLUS because Wal-mart doesn't pay overtime either. Individuals on a $13,000 avg. income can't afford Walmart's benefits and health insurance programs.

We can play these games of Walmart Good, Walmart Evil all day long, but until one actually put their presumptions aside about a company they've never worked for and actually listen to those that have, then nothing gets better, just stays the same. :)

http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html

I actually do know a number of people who work for Wal-Mart. In fact, a very good friend gave up her own optical shop to manage the Wal-Mart optical shop. They paid better than she did on her own and had much better benefits.

Have you actually SEEN the people who work at Wal-Mart? No offense, but a lot of them it's that or the corner Zippy-Mart. Plus, who the hell says they HAVE to work thier? If it's so friggin' bad, go someplace else! Don't even START with the 'well, what else is out there?' That's a copout pantload.

If you are making 13K a year, and that's the BEST you can do, sorry, you have bigger problems than Walmart. Far as salary/OT thing.....whatever, nobody is holding a gun to your head to work there.

BDT

[F1nut]

Again, why should I feel bad about shopping at Walmart?



Because I said so, you mofo bro.

[TroyD]

Oh, make no mistake, I LOATHE Walmart simply because the mouthbreather factor is off the freakin' charts. I feel cleaner after taking in a double feature at the Peek-a-boob theater with Pee Wee Herman......but, I can't pass up cheap Haynes underwear.

BDT

[F1nut]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[aaharvel]

:p best of the thread Troy.

[danger boy]

Ok, pretend here for just a minute.. i know this would never happen. but, what if Polk decided to boost sales and they were to strike a deal with Wal Mart to sell their entry line of speakers at a good price?

would that change your mind about the evil Wal Mart empire?

What if SVS decided we need a brick and morter store to sell shitload of sub's.. and Wal Mart is just the company to make us super rich.. would that change your mind about Wally Mart? ;)

[F1nut]

No and no, but you knew that already.

[madmax]

If I didn't shop at walmart I couldn't support my starbucks habit.
madmax

[cfrizz]

Troy, WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!:D

As for the rest of you, Quit your whining!:rolleyes: :p :D

Sooner or later there will be someone new on the horizon to knock Walmart off of its high horse.

[HiPerf360]

.....nevermind

[Kris Siegel]

I never liked Wal-Mart much. Every Wal-Mart I've walked in looks trashy (kind of how K-Mart was) and the employees are never helpful. I also never liked the fact that they feel they know better than their customers by censoring their CDs; I don't need to be protected by Wal-Mart from buying "inappropriate" CDs.

I like Target though. It's never as crowded, it looks nicer, they generally pay their employees more and they're usually helpful. Plus it has almost the samethings.

Them: "we want 100,000 packs of tshirts at $3 each"
Dad: "Ok"
[they make tshirts, put them on truck as truck is pulling into walmart warehouse, he gets a call]
Them: "We're gonna pay you $2.75 each"
Dad: "uhh.... you said $3"
Them: "Well, we don't want them anyway... and cancel all our other orders"

Fruit of the loom (not my dad's company) went bankrupt due, in part, to this bullshit.
This isn't real. If it is, then that company deserved to go out of business.

If you have a contract in place for $3 each, Wal-Mart has to pay that or the company would sue and win (plus lawyer fees I'm sure). If the company really didn't get a writen contract... well they were doomed from the beginning.

[Frank Z]

I won't set foot in a Wal-mart. I've seen first hand the damage they do.

[whitetruk]

I won't set foot in a Wal-mart. I've seen first hand the damage they do.


AMEN

[unc2701]

This isn't real. If it is, then that company deserved to go out of business.

If you have a contract in place for $3 each, Wal-Mart has to pay that or the company would sue and win (plus lawyer fees I'm sure). If the company really didn't get a writen contract... well they were doomed from the beginning.

Nope, totally real. Written contract and everything. And sure they could have sued walmart and gotten the money for those t-shirts, but Walmart sells over half their production, so the written contract didn't matter much when they had to contemplate losing everything. I've over-simplified how it went down (they went into months of negotiations, etc), but that's a pretty standard MO for walmart.

[ND13]

It's really not that much different than Microsoft's stranglehold on the computer industry.

[brettw22]

Nope, totally real. Written contract and everything. And sure they could have sued walmart and gotten the money for those t-shirts, but Walmart sells over half their production, so the written contract didn't matter much when they had to contemplate losing everything. I've over-simplified how it went down (they went into months of negotiations, etc), but that's a pretty standard MO for walmart.While Wal-Mart definitely acted unethically, any company that repies on a mostly singular outlet (walmart) is putting themselves into a corner.

[bobman1235]

While Wal-Mart definitely acted unethically, any company that repies on a mostly singular outlet (walmart) is putting themselves into a corner.

... and nobody puts baby in a corner.

[aaharvel]

... and nobody puts baby in a corner.

Swayze? :p

[madmax]

... and nobody puts baby in a corner.

What a great quote! Just watched the movie last week, awesome!
madmax

[MacLeod]

Nope, totally real. Written contract and everything. And sure they could have sued walmart and gotten the money for those t-shirts, but Walmart sells over half their production, so the written contract didn't matter much when they had to contemplate losing everything. I've over-simplified how it went down (they went into months of negotiations, etc), but that's a pretty standard MO for walmart.


Ive heard of them doing this before. Rubermaid went round and round with them about this crap too.

Ive heard of several people agreeing to sell Walmart something for X dollars and then Walmart all of a sudden telling them to forget it because they can get it cheaper thru another manufacturer.

I am a vendor for Walmart and I know how horrible they treat vendors. The term "red headed step child" doesnt even begin to cover it.

Some vendors like Coke and Pepsi are in their stores for 5-7 hours at a time and when they would take their lunch they would, naturally, go into the huge Walmart lunchroom and eat their lunch there. Well Walmart didnt like this so several of them, not all, banned vendors from the company lunchrooms. For no other reason than to be assholes.

And there is no compromising with them either. You either do what they demand, no matter how stupid or hard it is on you, or they kick all your product out of their stores.

Its no coincidence they have such a bad reputation and are having to take out full page ads in major newspapers saying how great a company they are.

[Demiurge]

Speak of the freakin' devil! NAACP says to boycott (but not really) Target. lol (trust me, I'm no fan of the NAACP)

Of the 50 companies contacted by the NAACP, five ignored the survey, including four retailers: Dillard's Inc.; Kohl's Corp.; Sears, Roebuck and Co.; and Target Corp. All were given Fs for not answering. The other company that failed to answer was Excel, a telecommunications company; it also received an F.

Gordon called on blacks to stop shopping at Target, in particular, until they answer the NAACP's questions - though he stopped short of calling the action a boycott.

"They didn't even care to respond to our survey," he said. "Stay out of their stores."

The NAACP focused on Target because they're one of the nation's most prominent national retailers, said John C. White, NAACP spokesman. However, the group does not plan to picket or leaflet Target, but will rely on word of mouth, he said.

A Target spokeswoman said via e-mail that the company opted out of the survey "because Target views diversity as being inclusive of all people from all different backgrounds, not just one group." The NAACP survey asks only about blacks.

Someone making a video about Target could include half of the story and call them racist if they wanted to. Videos on the internet don't always reflect the whole truth, hell videos on the nightly news don't always do that. That's the point.

[MacLeod]

Target views diversity as being inclusive of all people from all different backgrounds, not just one group

Effing brilliant!

Ill be shopping at Target more from now on.

Glad to see more people standing up to the NAALCP

[aaharvel]

Target owes the NAACP nothing. Let them bitch. There's bigger fish to fry than Target in this world, and all because of a survey that is mutually exclusive at best?!? :rolleyes:

[Mike682]

A Target spokeswoman said via e-mail that the company opted out of the survey "because Target views diversity as being inclusive of all people from all different backgrounds, not just one group." The NAACP survey asks only about blacks.

Excellent!!!!! That Target spokesman is 100% correct.

The survey will probably lead to a boycott anyway if the naacp doesn't like the participant's responses

[Demiurge]

Indeed!

[Zero]

I'd love to hear what you all feel about Audio Advisor.

This company has screwed over lots of people in the industry. A contract is established and overwhelming amounts of orders are placed from audio advisor to company "X". Company "X" is over-joyed, invests in expanding their facilities to keep up with this demand. Audio Advisor than under-cuts the price drastically dragging company "X" right into the dirt.

[MacLeod]

Ive never heard of them before.

[Demiurge]

Go go Mr. 9000.

[bobman1235]

Speak of the freakin' devil! NAACP says to boycott (but not really) Target. lol (trust me, I'm no fan of the NAACP)

<snip>The NAACP focused on Target because they're one of the nation's most prominent national retailers, said John C. White, NAACP spokesman.<snip>

Is anyone else amused that the spokesperson for the NAACP is named John WHITE

[brettw22]

Sadly, there's nothing ha ha funny about fanatics.

[TroyD]

The NAACP has been boycotting the entire state of SC for about a decade now.

We are virtually on the brink of collapse.

BDT

[heiney9]

I'd love to hear what you all feel about Audio Advisor.

This company has screwed over lots of people in the industry. A contract is established and overwhelming amounts of orders are placed from audio advisor to company "X". Company "X" is over-joyed, invests in expanding their facilities to keep up with this demand. Audio Advisor than under-cuts the price drastically dragging company "X" right into the dirt.

You are comparing Audio Advisor to Walmart :confused: . I don't think AA has anywhere near the clout Walmart has. I'd guess if AA had 0.05% the clout Wlamart has I'd be very suprised. Perhaps you are talking about a situation with a small company with limited outlets and options.

Please expand on how a situation with AA can be on the same scale as Walmart.

H9

[PolkThug]

Please expand on how a situation with AA can be on the same scale as Walmart.

H9

He doesn't say its on the same scale. Bottom line is that company "X" got screwed.

[bobman1235]

Sadly, there's nothing ha ha funny about fanatics.

Sure there is. They're self-parodies that end up just showing the absurdity of fanatacism.

[unc2701]

Sure there is. They're self-parodies that end up just showing the absurdity of fanatacism.

Until they start making you wear pieces of flair.

[Drumingman]

I did not buy any Christmas Gifts at Wal Mart last year because they banned Merry Christmas through their actions, even though they sold "holiday gifts.
I bought ALL my Christmas stuff at Sears where they could say Christmas without fear of reprimand by the management. Wal Mart does have it's place and I do shop there. It's great on the weekends when you go there and see the cast of Deliverence shopping for stuff and the Banjo starts playing in your head.

[aaharvel]

I went into Kmart today with my friend who wanted to go for something in the Pharmacy.

I immediately came home and took a shower.

[danger boy]

I went into Kmart today with my friend who wanted to go for something in the Pharmacy.

I immediately came home and took a shower.

yeah, but that was K-Mart.. not Wal Mart.. so two different stores. ;)

[shack]

I did not buy any Christmas Gifts at Wal Mart last year because they banned Merry Christmas through their actions, even though they sold "holiday gifts.

Target kicked out the Salvation Army bell ringers.

[reeltrouble1]

Target kicked out the Salvation Army bell ringers.


And the Devil grinned.

RT1

[PhantomOG]

It is possible to beat Wal-Mart

Wal-Mart gives up in Germany (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060728/ap_on_bi_ge/germany_metro_wal_mart_4)

:cool:

[aaharvel]

Weg, Deutschland zu gehen!

[MacLeod]

Karma baby!!!

Still, I would hazzard a guess that it was Germany's confiscatory tax rates that hurt Walmart the most. Its hard to sell dirt cheap with a 80% tax rate that Im sure their domestic stores wouldnt have to pay.

[shack]

Wal Mart got out of Germany because they were being undersold. Germans are real CHEAP! They were making money, just not as much as they could elsewhere, so they decided to concentrate assets on China and South America. It's no more than a pimple on their ass. Irritating but insignificant.

[F1nut]

They left China too.

[hexon]

Our walmart was recently remodeled. They "convieniantly" placed the food storage and food items on the other side of the store as the food. I find it really annoying that they are trying to get people to walk by and see things they like on the way to buy plastic forks for their food. A guy that works there said they remodel every 6 years so that people will buy more things, since they have to look around for what they need because it is no longer where it used to be.

[shack]

They left China too.

Nope! China is a very big growth market for them.

http://www.wal-martchina.com/english/walmart/index.htm

They moved out of South Korea.

[F1nut]

Could have sworn it was China.

[jojo5639]

WalMart gave up Germany because of the socialistic labor laws, that ought to tell you something, the company I work for wouldn't dare hire people in Europe because you can't fire them without paying them a fortune, and the social taxes are up to 80% of wages, that's why unemployment is so high in Germany, over 10%, that's why all those kids rioted in France, cause not enough companies are willing to put up with it. If we want to mandate "living wages" here or lavish benefit plans, a lot of us would find ourselves out on are butts. Capitalism is the only way to go, companies need to be able to make a profit to support themselves and their owners. If companies were in business solely to support employees and provide cheap goods and services to the masses, you have communism, sort of a dying fad. BTW, WalMart takes about $0.06 of profit for every $1.00 their customers give them, Target $0.08, Starbucks, $0.12, Exxon $0.20, and drum roll please....Microsoft, $0.40, so who's really screwing you? WalMart really is in business to offer the lowest prices, in general, across the board. Their lean business model, modest corporate dalliances (includes being frugal on the donations, too) and highly effcient business processes allow them to do that. And they need a hell of a lot of volume at 6% profit to make money for their shareholders. They could make just as much money on half the volume if they marked things up like Starbucks, but then they wouldn't be able to pass those savings on to you and me.

[bobman1235]

Hell of a first post, jojo.

[mrbigbluelight]

I wouldn't mind if Walmart increased their profit margin to $0.08 for every dollar they took in, than put that extra $0.02 into employee health care.

[aaharvel]

Jo-Jo how can 6% even be conceivable when Walmart posted a 9.4% increase in profit from the fiscal year before?

FORTUNE 500 snapshot:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/snapshots/1551.html

Given the numbers based on the above Fortune 500 end of fiscal year snapshot table and Walmart's in-store numbers of that same year (288 billion in-store sales/ 10.3 billion earnings), then that proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the 6% profit claim is absolutely disingenious at best. Walmart's in-store sales are just a small piece of their "little" profit pie and this proves it. For Mr. Bottom-line 6% to be mathmatically feasible, Walmart would have to have posted in the red (approx. -3.4%) the fiscal year before. They didn't.

Next year, Walmart's opening 365 new stores. 365. In a capitialistic market, if you're having to keep your head above water with a mere 6% year-end profit as you claim Walmart does, you don't build 365 new stores. You find ways to cost-cut what you already have in order to appease Wallstreet and your own investors expectations for the upcoming fiscal year.

I'm fully aware of the 6% profit based on in-store earnings b/c they're all over the pro-Walmart blogs and anyone who actually has a vested stake in the company is quick to point that out to me. So from that standpoint you are right. But from the actual Fortune 500 fiscal year earnings statistics, you are also wrong.

Welcome to Club Polk.

[brettw22]

Our walmart was recently remodeled. They "convieniantly" placed the food storage and food items on the other side of the store as the food. I find it really annoying that they are trying to get people to walk by and see things they like on the way to buy plastic forks for their food. A guy that works there said they remodel every 6 years so that people will buy more things, since they have to look around for what they need because it is no longer where it used to be.This isn't uncommon in a retail environment and is done by most if not all stores. Retailers typically try to keep their stores fresh, and layouts are always changing/product is always moving. Consumers will spend more money in a store that has a current look than in one which is run ragged.

[shack]

Jo-Jo how can 6% even be conceivable when Walmart posted a 9.4% increase in profit from the fiscal year before?

Apples and oranges. They could have a 1% rate of return and still have y-t-y 9.4% increase in poffits. How? Increase sales volume by 9.4%. Open 9.4% more stores. Have stores that were losing money make money this year. Etc... Direct corelation of the % rate of return with % rate of growth is possible only if volume remains constant.

[shack]

In a capitialistic market, if you're having to keep your head above water with a mere 6% year-end profit as you claim Walmart does, you don't build 365 new stores. You find ways to cost-cut what you already have in order to appease Wallstreet and your own investors expectations for the upcoming fiscal year.

In case you missed it:

Profits as a percentage of revenues = 3.6%


The retail gorcery chains would kill to have this high of a profit margin:

Kroger = 1.58%
Ingles = 1.56%
Safeway = 2.63%

[jojo5639]

I was quoting operating margin of 6%, but AAHarvel hopefully gets the point, my original numbers stand. I am an accountant and can read a financial statement. And btw, a lot is being made of Exxon as well. I can safely say that their operating margins have barely budged (20%) since oil moved from $35 to $75/barrel. All we hear is about record $10B in profits, but I am know telling you what don't hear. If something costs you $0.40 and you sell it for $0.50, you make $0.10, or 20%. If something costs you $40B and you sell it for $50B, you make a world-record $10B, or 20%. If their margins had improved, I would say they are gouging, but they are entitled to their cut. Corporations are not charities, they are in business to make money. These companies are not monopolies, no one is forced to patronize them, the market drives their pricing and tactics. Our market-driven, capitalistic economy is the model of the world for three generations now, let's not tinker with it.

[EricBurg]

The only real problem that I have is with big oil companies making such a huge profit. This is a commodity that has no competition, because they fix their prices and is a resource that we all must consume in some manner, just to live. It effects all other prices and has one of the biggest impacts on the nations economy. Now, if true competition existed among big oil, then I would say the ones that provied the best prices and products would deserve what they made.

Wal-mart does not monopolize the retail industry, they simply provide goods and services at a competitive price that people are able/willing to pay. With that said...I won't shop at wall mart in my area, because they are dirty and crowded. I don't mind paying a few cents more per item to just stay away.

Eric

[jojo5639]

eric,

you are implying that there is collusion here, there is not...there is not even much wiggle room for competition, because you've rightly branded oil a commodity, just like gold...beef...orange juice, etc. Prices for commodities are a perfect example how the free market adheres to the laws of supply and demand. Neither Exxon nor any other oil company is involved in the pricing of oil, it is simply a raw material they must have to produce their end products, gasoline being just one. Demand has exploded, yet refining capacity has yet to expand for various socio-political reasons and traders recognize this as a imbalance that continues to drive the price higher. We simply are consuming oil by products faster than we can produce them. Once again, if we tinker with this market, we will face disastrous consequences...the last time we did... if your license plate ended in a odd number, you could buy gas on Monday...Even numbers were Tuesday and so on and so on. I would rather pay $5.00 for a gallon, than to have none to buy at $2.00. At $5.00/gallon an entrepreneurial spirit in this country will rightly develop and commercialize one or more alternate sources of fuel that will solve this, just like in the face of rising wagon wheel costs, Henry Ford developed and commercialized the automobile...JK

[F1nut]

you are implying that there is collusion here, there is not...

If you believe that, then you sir, are delusional.

[EricBurg]

While they are not involved directly in the pricing of the barrel of oil, they are responsible for the record high prices that we pay at the pump. Are you telling me that the refining process and overhead of all the oil companies equal the exact amount? So, while exxon sells fuel for $2.89, why can't shell sell it for $2.75? And how much profit is too much? 10 billion dollars?

I would love the idea that alternative fuels would suddenly appear from this, but at this time, I have no "alternative". I am forced to pay whatever the going rate is for gas. I just don't understand how there can be many different refining companies and somehow they all sell gas for the exact same amount to the 1/10th of a penny. When I go look at sony tv's, they cost a certain amount to build, but when I go to 5 different stores, I can walk away with 5 different prices to chose from.

I understand the arguement you make, but I'm just not buying into it 100%.

Eric