Ceiling fan speeding up on its own [Archive]

univera

08-26-2006, 08:37 AM

I wanted to post this in electronics, but I didn't want to catch hell.

I just had a ceiling fan installed last week. Minka Aire Acero with a wall control. No remote. On two occassions I noticed that the light section turned on by itself, once in the middle of the night while I was sleeping. Then, while I was sleeping in the early morn hours today, I was awakened by a noice coming from the fan and found the fan to be going full speed.

We did have a good rainstorm at some point as well. Any ideas by the electrical crew as to what might be happenning? I have another, different Minka Aire fan in my den but haven't had a problem. I'm wondering if their is voltage issue or something.

Or, could it just be a poltergeist in my fan? But seriously..

Vr3MxStyler2k3

08-26-2006, 08:45 AM

Its a...ghost

dorokusai

08-26-2006, 10:00 AM

Kill it....kill it NOW!

ND13

08-26-2006, 10:02 AM

Its a...ghost

Poltergeist

janmike

08-26-2006, 10:05 AM

Either call an Electrician or you know who to call.
"Who you gonna call?"

Frank Z

08-26-2006, 10:38 AM

Bad control.

wingnut4772

08-26-2006, 10:44 AM

"Get Out"

Mazeroth

08-26-2006, 12:10 PM

"Run to the hills! Run for your life!"

mrbigbluelight

08-26-2006, 05:03 PM

walked through the Halls of Karma,
shook hands with both the Devil and God,
turned your eyes to the inside to see
where your energy has gone

At least that's what the electricians at Black Oak Arkansas think.

Beekyman

08-26-2006, 08:48 PM

Ghost in the machine...call an electrician.

aaharvel

08-26-2006, 08:54 PM

"God is in his holy temPle."

univera

08-26-2006, 09:03 PM

Either call an Electrician or you know who to call.
"Who you gonna call?"

Just got home and found the cat swinging from the blades and there is now green goo hanging off the blades. Do you feel this is serious....:eek: :eek: :eek: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2425349042434612063

For what it's worth, Bill Murray just bought a house right down the road where I work on Sullivan's Island. He is part owner of the Minor League baseball Riverdogs. Perhaps he still has his ghost gun.....:rolleyes:

disneyjoe7

08-26-2006, 09:38 PM

univera

08-27-2006, 12:42 AM

Loose connection or line noise could be the problem. Don't know much about line noise, but I did move an outlet from one phase to the other once for noise. Other then that bad fan control.

BTW I'm not an electrician by trade so be easy on me.

Thanks for the serious answer. You may have hit on the head. My air conditioner unit is RIGHT outside my bedroom. I'll have to check to see if they are on the same circuit. Could the A.C. cutting on cause my fan to make noise? It was odd, loud noise, and then I noticed the fan had gone from low to high?

When you say fan control, do you mean the actual wall control plate? Or something inside the fan. That's the only way it operates (wall plate.) Here's my badass fan. I highly recommend these fans if you want great, modern style at a good (Ebay) price. Much better than crazy retail.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Minka-Aire-Acero-F601-BS-BN-Nickel-Restoration-Hardware_W0QQitemZ180021679178QQihZ008QQcategoryZ2 0699QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My other fan (the one that isn't possessed.) http://cgi.ebay.com/Minka-Aire-F531-BN-Modern-Flyte-Ceiling-Fan_W0QQitemZ180022076585QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20699Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Shizelbs

08-27-2006, 01:17 AM

Throw a head of iceburg lettuce into it. That should fix it up good.

PolkThug

08-27-2006, 01:21 AM

It has too many bad Thetans attached to it. Call Tom Cruise for help.

ESAVINON

08-27-2006, 02:41 AM

Find out where the fan was made,then try to talk the gremlin in it's native language. Tell it to cease and decist.

McLoki

08-27-2006, 10:02 AM

We had a similar issue with a ceiling fan that we had. I think it was a ground issue and had the installers come back out and remove the remote control (hooked it directly to a wall switch) and that fixed the issue.

Sorry I dont have more details, but apparently it is not that unique of a problem.

Michael

disneyjoe7

08-27-2006, 10:39 AM

Thanks for the serious answer. You may have hit on the head. My air conditioner unit is RIGHT outside my bedroom. I'll have to check to see if they are on the same circuit. Could the A.C. cutting on cause my fan to make noise? It was odd, loud noise, and then I noticed the fan had gone from low to high?

I do think your AC unit is causing the problem, the juice / current in cycling my cause a surge spike (think noise). I think your trouble will be 10 fold if this is on the same breaker, as these maybe wired with the same feed. The breaker box will must likely not have 2 wires under the same breaker (I think it's against code). What I was thinking noise on one feed may be causing trouble, moving the breaker for this ceiling fan to the other feed may fix it. So if this is breaker 3 than breaker 4 is other feed, where all odd are the same feed the even the other feed. Taking a voltage meter you would have 0 volts between odds or evens but 240 volts between odd and even breakers.

My trouble house (I was a field service tech once) was a X-10 base light switch for (? I forgot) the switch was on the same feed as the garage door which had a RF remote receiver which was causing noise. Moving the breaker from odd to even fix it, this had drove my nuts finding this as this wasn't my first call back. My personnel quote Installation people install it, Service tech's make it work.

disneyjoe7

08-27-2006, 10:41 AM

wingnut4772

08-27-2006, 11:19 AM

We just give silly answers to hide the fact that we don't have a clue....that and your house is haunted.

univera

08-27-2006, 05:25 PM

That would fix touble if you didn't use the remote.

There is no remote to this fan. It is only controlled by the wall switch. It may be possible there is a remote link, but I don't recall seeing that as an option.

univera

08-27-2006, 05:27 PM

We just give silly answers to hide the fact that we don't have a clue....that and your house is haunted.

Hey, I'm all about silly answers. Please, keep them coming. I just also wanted some real advice. Gotta be that Poltergeist. Last night, before going out, I got in the shower and my bottle of shampoo has oozed down the side of tub. I couldn't figure any logical explanation. Had to be a paranormal event. :eek: I took a photo, but I haven't attempted to post a photo yet and don't quite know how.

disneyjoe7

08-27-2006, 05:31 PM

We just give silly answers to hide the fact that we don't have a clue....that and your house is haunted.

In short that why Polk Forum is GREAT :)

Some will make you laugh, some will get you straight :cool:

disneyjoe7

08-27-2006, 05:34 PM

So lets figure what breaker is working what OK. Turn off the AC breaker is the Fan still working? What is the breaker for the AC what #? What breaker # is for the Fan?

univera

08-27-2006, 05:56 PM

So lets figure what breaker is working what OK. Turn off the AC breaker is the Fan still working? What is the breaker for the AC what #? What breaker # is for the Fan?

5&7 control the AC. One big double switch. 15 is for the fan/master bedroom. The fan stays on when the AC breaker is off.

disneyjoe7

08-27-2006, 06:09 PM

Your AC is 240vac your fan is 120vac.....

So moving it wouldn't fix it.

Sorry I'm out of answers.

Maybe the fan controller is broke.

mrbigbluelight

08-27-2006, 06:23 PM

Curiosity got the best of me, so I googled your fan, "Minka Aire Acero".

I think DisneyJoe may be on the right track, ie, fan/AC combo is funking things up.

Instead of a voltage spike, though, I'd say he's getting a big voltage dip.

You didn't say what wall control the Minka Aire Acero came with, but their website (http://www.farreys.com/ceiling_fans/casablanca/fan_controls.html)
shows some pretty fancy-schmancy wall controls with some pretty cool features ("Safe-Exit", "Home-Minder", "Light-Minder", etc)

All those extra features are solid-state, probably run off a simple PROM chip.
When you get a big voltage spike when the AC starts, the voltage dip is greater than some predetermined level (10% ?).
The SS wall control thinks "Oh, oh.... powers off !" and switches or STARTS to switch into some pre-programed safe state.

How quickly your voltage returns to normal varies, so your wall control's response to that varies, too; sometimes it fires up the fan on high, sometimes it turns on the lights.

At least that's one theory.

If not that, than I'd have to assume that your house has been hexed by a vengeful neighbor.
The cure for that ? You have to go outside at midnight with a shovel to dig up the offending hex charm.
Evil spirits will be able to see you if clothed, so you must remove all clothing. To cloak any noise you may make while digging, whistle loudly, "I'm a little teapot short and stout". They will confuse this with the wind.
If possible, have your wife take pictures of this operation, and post them on CP so that we may critique this operation.

:o

schwarcw

08-27-2006, 06:33 PM

I think it's a ghost!

danger boy

08-27-2006, 06:34 PM

i think it's Satan myself... :rolleyes:

schwarcw

08-27-2006, 08:16 PM

Here he is:eek:

disneyjoe7

08-27-2006, 08:47 PM

All those extra features are solid-state, probably run off a simple PROM chip.
When you get a big voltage spike when the AC starts, the voltage dip is greater than some predetermined level (10% ?).
The SS wall control thinks "Oh, oh.... powers off !" and switches or STARTS to switch into some pre-programed safe state.

:o

MrbigBlueLight, I think you're 100% right and yes that was my thinking also. But all in all this BLOWS because of shit design and to keep cost down. I can't stand shitty electronic designs it just pissing me off, what no one adds a F'ing Cap to the power supply any more. I see to many designs 50% working assembled in China designed where I don't know but what the fewest parts you can do it in. All made for the perfect world never for the REAL WORLD. I don't know what we of Consumers should do about it, you never know where the next F'ing is going to happen.... I'm personally keeping some Vasoline with me because I'm sick of bleeding too heavy.

mrbigbluelight

08-28-2006, 08:11 AM

univera

08-28-2006, 08:34 AM

All I know is the damn thing was on full blast again in the middle of the night. I think I finally figured it out: I've been leaving the closet door open, with the ligth on, at night, and we all know what kind of things that invites. "Kerra Ann, go to the light." THEY'RE HE-YER......." "The T.V. People.":eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

univera

08-28-2006, 08:35 AM

DisneyJoe, you mentioned the "AC=240v, Fan=110v" thing. You might be onto something there.

I wouldn't be suprised if his electric panel was full, and one leg of the 240v breaker has TWO wires on it (one of them being the Fan/Control).

That, or ..........

WITCH !! BURN THE WITCH !!!

I did have one breaker wired for I think 120? for a Euro dryer that runs on a different current. Don't know if that could be related.

disneyjoe7

08-28-2006, 08:39 AM

I was thinking the AC in his room was a little one 120vac 10amp or so. But it a pretty big one 240vac so if it causing noise (voltage down thing) then it's on both legs, not just one. So moving it from A to B would fix it, if the AC is working on A and B already.

Or you could swap the two fan controllers, (the switch on the wall). Both again this is in line to what Frank was saying already.

clueless

08-28-2006, 09:48 AM

Frank Z

08-28-2006, 09:53 AM

See post #6.

univera

08-28-2006, 10:04 AM

If this is a 2 wire install the ceiling fan will have a receiver and the wall control is a transmitter. Power fluctuations will turn the lights on and possibly cause the fan to switch speeds. Where as your other fan may be a 3 wire install which would not require a transmitter/receiver to control the light and fan functions.

Don't know about the wires, but that fan is also solely controlled at the wall. It may have a remote control option, but I don't own one. The new fan with the Poltergeist actually has a reverse button that can only be activated while the fan is RUNNING. This surprised me, but when activated, the fan slows itself down and then changes directions. Really cool design. I hadn't see this before. My other unit is more expensive but has to be switched on the fan itself. Don't know if that has anything to do with this problem.

I really can't figure out the green goo hanging off the blades....
:eek:

clueless

08-28-2006, 11:49 AM

One way to test if it is power fluctions is to turn the breaker for the fan on and off. I can't help with the green goo I don't have an exorcism license.

univera

08-28-2006, 04:14 PM

One way to test if it is power fluctions is to turn the breaker for the fan on and off. I can't help with the green goo I don't have an exorcism license.

Then what? See if the fan gets faster or the lights come on, etc? Why would one fan be a three wire and one a two wire? I don't know what the wires go to. Hot/Cold/ Ground? Why am I taking advice from someone named "Clueless?":D

jcaut

08-28-2006, 04:59 PM

Maybe you need one of these??http://www.power-save.com/product.html

Edito: Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks!

clueless

08-28-2006, 05:40 PM

Most home light switches are wired for lights only 1 hot 1 common ei 14/2. To control a ceiling fan the optimal situation would be 3 wires to the fixture 2 hot 1 common ei 14/3. One hot for the fan and one hot for the light. Fan manufacturers have created devices that allows 14/2 wiring to control the fan and light independently. The most common of these is the transmitter/receiver combination. These will do strange things when the power fluctuates.

And clueless is in regards to my audio expertise, that’s why I joined the form to learn from the experts. :D

disneyjoe7

08-28-2006, 06:26 PM

See post #6.

Yes Frank you got credit for that post 100%. But my take is that manufacturing electronic devices SUCK do to profit margins that CEO stock holders whatever like to make on your ASS. This SUCKs I say remove it stick that up somebody's ASS.

disneyjoe7

08-28-2006, 06:42 PM

I think you meant this link

http://www.power-save.com/product.html

I just installed it and still testing it, my installation maybe not 100% as I had to install off a small sub panel. But I can say yesterdays lightening storm I sat better the voltage spikes don't upset me as easy.

Maybe you need one of these??="http://www.power-save.com/"]http://www.power-save.com/

disneyjoe7

08-28-2006, 08:38 PM

The most common of these is the transmitter/receiver combination. These will do strange things when the power fluctuates.

I never seen one of those, could you link me up some... Learning curve ;)

univera

08-28-2006, 08:48 PM

Hey, I'm all about silly answers. Please, keep them coming. I just also wanted some real advice. Gotta be that Poltergeist. Last night, before going out, I got in the shower and my bottle of shampoo has oozed down the side of tub. I couldn't figure any logical explanation. Had to be a paranormal event. :eek: I took a photo, but I haven't attempted to post a photo yet and don't quite know how.

Photographic evidence of paranormal activity in my adjoining bathroom. Or, perhaps, a prime example of the need for Signal Cable Risers. Too much static electricity likely could have caused the shampoo to spontaneously ooze from the tube. :D As you can plainly see, the top is completely closed. If anyone can tell me how to post something not supersized, I'm all ears.

SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l312/univera/poltergeist.jpg

disneyjoe7

08-28-2006, 09:22 PM

As far as pictures my favorite way is to send the picture back to my self as E-mail. Then I re-save picture as something else to post smaller picture. Assuming you're using WinXP software.

univera

08-28-2006, 09:51 PM

As far as pictures my favorite way is to send the picture back to my self as E-mail. Then I re-save picture as something else to post smaller picture. Assuming you're using WinXP software.

Thanks, yes XP. I actually just copied and pasted from Photobucket. I would like to use thumbnails, but don't know how. Saving to email requires a few steps, but if it is the only way...

disneyjoe7

08-28-2006, 10:19 PM

I think the thumbnails take something from Polk forum where the photo links adds to it. Something I miss from the old forum software, but understand where bandwidth could be an issue the old way.

clueless

08-29-2006, 07:29 AM

I never seen one of those, could you link me up some... Learning curve ;)

No problem. This is one that is available from Minka Aire

http://www.minkagroup.net/productdetail.asp?productid=6696&div=167&styleid=1968&catid=2232

Hunter, Hampton Bay also make them.

disneyjoe7

08-29-2006, 08:01 AM

More stuff in the soup so to speak. To mess things up!

Are they line based transmitter (ei X-10 or something like), or RF based transmitter / receiver? I see some kind of switch setting does that need to be changed. Also any line based system would seem to add noise, phone extenders / IR extenders and the like, anything like that on that breaker? If it's line based I should add.

clueless

08-29-2006, 03:09 PM

The one's I've work with recently all have been RF base. The one on the site I listed is RF Based. The line based ones I've worked with in the past have controlled the light/fan by fluctuating the current to the unit. I haven't seen these in a while.

burdette

08-29-2006, 04:52 PM

There is no remote to this fan. It is only controlled by the wall switch. It may be possible there is a remote link, but I don't recall seeing that as an option.

That explains it. I have a fan remote that I got at Goodwill, but no fan (so the remote was really cheap!). I just push the buttons sometimes for fun. Sorry - I'll try to point it away from your house.

univera

08-29-2006, 06:51 PM

No problem. This is one that is available from Minka Aire

http://www.minkagroup.net/productdetail.asp?productid=6696&div=167&styleid=1968&catid=2232

Hunter, Hampton Bay also make them.

The link here shows the controller that doesn't have any issues and is further away from the unit. My other, troubled fan has a different one and isn't the one Clueless refers to. Mine appears to have the one with the fluctuating current design.

clueless

08-30-2006, 10:31 AM

univera

08-30-2006, 01:00 PM

I looked at the installation instructions for your fan. It has a receiver/transmitter combination. This one is RF. I have seen these controllers do some strange things when the power fluctates.

http://www.minkagroup.net/manuals/F601-English.pdf

Clueless, thanks for your dilligence. What is the solution to the problem, short of bringing in some type of spiritual intermediary?:)

disneyjoe7

08-30-2006, 06:41 PM

Well looking at the instruction manual I will never buy that brand or fan.

Saying that my input is the remove it, return it, or burn it, your choice.

Ok for a controller to work it needs voltage this voltage is stolen by the series wiring (why I don't know and I say it's a shit design) if RF why series wiring stealing voltage thing? So this is not given the controller by the fan the full sine wave it can't as some of this wave / voltage is needed for wall controller. Noise or power problem will cause trouble, as this is powered the way it is. Short of nothing I say you can do to fix it. I if nothing else would remove controllers wall and by the fan, rewire for a wall switch but I don't know about the reverse control thing or if theres a switch on the fan also. So fan could work one way or the other and not be what you want.

univera

08-30-2006, 10:04 PM

Thanks, Joe. I may just have to live with it as a simple wall switch will lose the ability to control the speeds, the coolness factor, and the reverse as there are no controls on the fan whatsoever. Seem like the poltergeist might have been easier to correct! FWIW, I haven't had any issues the past couple of days. It's hard to believe a large national brand would have such a crappy design flaw. This has to be one of, if not the top selling, modern fan lines. They win awards for aesthetic designs but obviously not for wiring.