An unfair comparison: Martin Logan Summits vs Polk LSi9

[Joey_V]

Prologue:
Let me start off by saying that this comparison is an unfair one from the getgo so no one better get their panties in a wrap and send me hate mail. It's not fair and it shouldve never been done (this comparison), but for the sake of a good audio read, I've decided to write my thoughts on the subject after I unconsciously compared the 2 speakers even when it was never in my itinerary to do so.

Intro:
Well well... you know how many of reminisce about the old days? How our first speakers were the best in the world and how we were all into the music back before all this madness with regards to upgrades engulfed us? Ok, so that may just be me and Sean.:p

But, I bought a pair of the Polk LSi9 again a few weeks ago to try and fill the void in my computer area. I had it all planned out - LSi9s for the computer, and Summits in the living room.

Well, plans have their ways of crumbling before your very eyes.

Anyway, long story made short, I have brought my Summits back into my room and made them handle my PC audio needs and my reference audio needs. It's funny though, seeing these speakers beside my PC setup... it really doesnt belong here. But this is where I spend the bulk of my time when I'm not at work, working out, or hanging out with my beloved princess, so I figured I'm entitled to the best sound accessible at all times, period.

Now, I compared the Summits and the LSi9 head to head.... and though the 9s hold their own in certain aspects of the reproduction, price kept in mind, the Summits were just undeniably far superior in every sense imaginable. Duh, I bet you're saying.

The real kicker is how much my taste in sound has changed in the last year and a half... when I started to look at what else was out there besides my original pair of 9s.

Quick Rundown:
Vocals - This is generally the strength of the LSi series and it's reknowned Vifa tweeter. There is warmth, there is palpability. This is the aspect of the LSi house sound that draws people to it at first listen.

When I first turned the 9s on, I concentrated on the vocals and I thought they were even better than when I first had them a year and a half ago, since this time, they were powered by the Rotel 1090 powerbeast. There was palpability, there was warmth, there was the appropriate weight.

However, when I quickly switched over to the Summits, there was a sense of awe in the ease of vocal reproduction. It was far superior. No longer did the vocals sound reproduced or contrived (though I wouldve never guessed the 9s were anything but), but the vocals sounded as real as the source allowed. It was truly glorious, for lack of a better word. There was less sibilance (can you believe that??) and it was far more neutral than the 9s had reproduced.

Mids: There is no substitute for an electrostat, period. You cannot beat the mids of the Summits. This was without a doubt, an easy KO. The 9s sounded like speakers, while the Summits sounded like a guitar, or a piano, or a trombone, or a saxophone, or a trumpet, or a snare. You get lost not only in the sound, but in the "correctness" with regards to the image size. The guitar was of appropriate size on the Summits while feeling a little cramped and compressed on the 9s.

Bass: I wont compare this aspect since one is a bookshelf and the other is full range with a sealed cabinet for 2x dual 10" woofers each powered by 200watts of ICEpower digital amps (total of 4 woofers and 4 amps) and an onboard EQ for the 25hz and 50hz tunes (which really works well if you want to bass out with some hiphop bass heavy tracks or turn it back a bit when listening to Patricia Barber). It isnt a fair comparison.

In conclusion:
Anyway, in the end, I decided that I had to bring the Summits back to my bedroom and save the whole cockamamie "I need to have a listening room" garbage for later... a whole lot later, when I can afford to hang a Plasma between the speakers so I'm not staring at a blank wall type of a deal. I'm going to rearrange the room a little so I can situate the PC setup and the Summits better.

In the end, you truly get what you pay for. The 9s are great speakers, and at the $1K retail price - they're a good bargain (moreso when you account the fact that they can be had for under $700 on ebay). Are the Summits at $10,000 TEN TIMES BETTER?? No way. Are they significantly better at removing the veil of a speaker and giving way to just the music? Oh yeah! How much is that worth to you? Only you know for sure.

Wrapping things up:
At this moment in time, I'm going to sell my 9s (again :( )... though I have been thinking about having them right next to the Summits for a second interpretation of the music.

Thanks for listening/reading about my little adventure.

Joey :)

[Early B.]

Nice write-up.

It would be interesting to integrate my first love -- Lsi7's -- into my current setup and hear the differences.

[Toka78]

Good writing, thanks! Would love to play around with some Summits some day.

[audiobliss]

Each Summit has two subs with their own amp? :eek: I didn't know what. what's their bass response?

[Joey_V]

Each Summit has two subs with their own amp? :eek: I didn't know what. what's their bass response?

Yeah... 2x10" woofers in a sealed cabinet in each Summit. The Summits go down to 24hz flat, and under that (about 21hz in room) -3db. With the EQ, you can bump up the frequencies around 25hz and/or 50hz.

Check out the little knobs here:
(Notice there are 3 knobs total. The lower two are the 25hz/50hz knobs, the top one is the knob for the blue ML logo light that shines on top of the box ;) )
http://pic6.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1158189693.jpg

[audiobliss]

Have you not tried biwiring your Summits or replacing the jumper with speaker wire? Seems almost taboo around here to use those jumpers on speakers.

Very nice looking speakers, indeed. Nice touch to be able to adjust the logo light! :p Awesome, authoritative bass response, I'm sure. I'd love to experience such as that!

[polkatese]

very nice, Joey. Just for shit and giggle, go try biwiring, it would be fun.

[zombie boy 2000]

If anything, they're about the most aesthetically pleasing stock jumpers I have ever seen....

Either way, they're gorgeous speakers for sure. Excellent write-up, as well.

[Loud & Clear]

I'd like to read a comparison between the summits and a big pair of SDA's. I'd find that interesting.

[Shizelbs]

Nice write up.

[Joey_V]

I'll probably try bi-wiring now... you guys may be right about the dinky plate connectors.

I have yet to muster the strength to pounce on some better speaker wire - like Nordost or Kimber. I am probably not going to do anything like that in the near future because it starts to get awfully costly.

My next goal is to improve on the listening chair and perhaps a little acoustic panels up front. Then maybe improve the amp if need be to a Plinius sa100mk2 for full Class A onslaught.

But I'm going to take it easy for now as I really enjoy the sound of my system at the moment. These speakers are staying with me for quite some time, and they'll keep me company beyond my Graduation day and into my Residency years.

I'm going to begin trying to save money because money doesnt grow on trees. ;)

[jm1]

Joey,

As you are using banana plugs, remove the plate connectors and replace with a small piece of wire with bare ends. If this is an improvement, treat the ends of the wire so they do not corrode.

[Zero]

Joey,

Cool write up. Sorry to hear of recent troubles.. You never call anymore? I'm not really that bad in bed... I just had things on my mind. HAH.

Right now, I cannot even tolerate the LSi's in comparison to the Stone Image speakers..so I know whatcha mean. Give me a yell someday.

[heiney9]

Nice review Joey but I simply have to throw this in the absurd bin. Comparing a $10K floor standing full range speaker to a $1K bookshelf is absurd. Don't take my observation personally Joey I'm not knocking you or the Summits those are impressive speakers. But come on this would be like comparing a Miata to a 911 Carrera. Two entirely different means to an end that have absolutely nothing in common.

I'm sorry it's just not even entertaining to read. They aren't even close to being in the same league.

Right now, I cannot even tolerate the LSi's in comparison to the Stone Image speakers..so I know whatcha mean. Give me a yell someday.

And Sean for you to now say you can't hardly tolerate your LSI's compared to the Stone Image speakers is completely contradictory to what you've ever said about the Lsi's.

Certainly you can be of the opinion the Stone Image's are what you prefer (right at the moment) but to now state you can't tolerate the Lsi's. Somehow things just don't add up. An no I've never heard the Stone Image speakers and I'm not even saying the Lsi's are always better, but to call the Lsi's intolerable when you have had nothing but praise for them in the past seems a bit over dismissive to me.

Which way will the wind blow tomorrow.

Just trying to throw my observation out there not trying to start a flame war or personal attack. It's just how I see it.

H9

[michael_w]

It was a good comparison to keep people thinking about what you can accomplish in an upgrade of that size. LSi's are where some people will stop but for myself I plan to (one day) own something much better so a comparison like this is a fun read.

[Zero]

H9,

I will leave my comments as is, prosperity purposes, that whole sha-bang. Tis' what I get for posting while on the phone, a habit I am getting into more and more. How I long for the days of being able to multi-task well again! :D Now I got a perfect excuse to ramble and partly side-track a thread... away we go!

First, Joey is just having a bit of fun. Let him have it! He had a chance to own two speakers he has immense respect for and decided to compare and contrast. Of course its lopsided, but in a hobby so full of serious subjective comparisons – a touch of ridiculousness can be in order. Some people (like yourself) may find absolutely no value in it. That’s cool, but given the nature of this non serious post.. just move on and let the boy and others have some fun!

Now as for myself; I’ve always retained respect for what Polk has accomplished in the Lsi series! It’s a fantastic line that still holds its own despite its age. Recently I even made a very small homage to the LSi-15. I *proudly* stand behind every word in that original post. I don’t find what I said today to contrast with anything I have written in the recent past. I think the difference is that I understand and appreciate the different markets these products are going for.

The Rothschilde A2 monitor is a result of three years of painstaking work to get every component working “just right” with each other. It took loads of time to determine the right drivers, the right wire, and took nearly a year to develop and “perfect” the cross-over inside. This speaker was designed to be the ultimate compact monitor anywhere near its price-range.

The LSi series was hard researched and developed by the wonderful team at Polk. However, Polk wasn’t trying to make a new standard in stereo reference speakers. Instead, they designed a bullet-proof speaker that was voiced more towards modern day solutions > high resolution audio for both stereo and theater. Polk has great confidence in the line and is proud of it, as they should be, but none of the speakers were made to be the end-all be all of their time, design, and price-range.

You won’t see a decline in my respect for the Lsi’s. But it does so happen that I feel the Rothschilde A2’s wipe the floor with them in every respect except heft and weight. I also feel the same way with the 15 next to any Totem product I’ve heard in my listening spaces – I’ve felt this way for years. It is how it is. In this hobby, the wind does change directions as you grow; tastes change, experiences change, lifestyles change, etc.. The Rothschilde A2 ushers in a new wind direction for yours truly.

[heiney9]

I don't want to discourage anyone from having fun, it's just the way I see it.

[audiobliss]

not trying to start a flame war or personal attack.
I think you should try harder. :D

[heiney9]

I think you should try harder. :D

Are you trying to start something? :D :p

[Joey_V]

Are you trying to start something? :D :p

H9,

I understand your point, but keep in mind that's why I titled the thread; Unfair Comparison. I mean, the comparison shouldnt even be made, but I somehow hooked up the 2 side-by-side and I let it rip. I didnt mean to do a comparo, but it just ended up that way.

I figured, I might as well write about it.

Though keep in mind, I never compared the bass section... I only compared the vocals and midrange (highs included sort of). Last time I checked, you need not be a full range speaker to reproduce vocals and mids. If anything, I tried to even out the plane... no need to compare the bass section on a speaker that goes full range vs a bookshelf.

Atleast this will somewhat show to others that there "can" be a difference between a $1000 speaker and a $10,000 one, bass nonwithstanding (as it seems like the more you spend, the lower the speaker extends is a generality that bodes true nowadays).

Now what I need is for someone to post another unfair comparo, a $10,000 speaker vs a $50,000 one. I know Trey used to have them JM Labs Grande Utopias... just a thought.

It's all in good fun. ;)

[Joey_V]

Joey,

Cool write up. Sorry to hear of recent troubles.. You never call anymore? I'm not really that bad in bed... I just had things on my mind. HAH. Give me a yell someday.

Recent troubles? I'm ok.. no scuffs here!

Just thought that I should lay off on the audio craze a little (just a little) and try to save some cash for a rainy day. I have a lot of interviews to go to next year for Residency and I need money for them plane rides! :eek:

Joey

[Holydoc]

Just got to say that I was entertained, but then I am easy. :)

I personally love any comparison of any speaker. It is nice to read about a comparison of a non-polk speaker to a polk speaker by someone who actually owns one even if the price difference is 10x. Thanks for the fun.

On a different topic, what I really want to read is a comparison where someone actually bought what they thought was an upgrade and decided that it was not. It just appears at times that every speaker upgrade is better than the Polks they went from. That means that either 1) you guys need to teach me more about what to listen for or 2) this hobby is so subjective that just thinking you are getting an upgrade make it so.

Hope I did not hurt any feelings (if I did I apologize) and am not even talking about any particular person. It is just so rare to read a post where PersonX bought SpeakerY to replace his Polks just to find out he wasted his money. Those type of posts would be very informative if the author described exactly what they did not like.

[heiney9]

Just got to say that I was entertained, but then I am easy. :)

I personally love any comparison of any speaker. It is nice to read about a comparison of a non-polk speaker to a polk speaker by someone who actually owns one even if the price difference is 10x. Thanks for the fun.

On a different topic, what I really want to read is a comparison where someone actually bought what they thought was an upgrade and decided that it was not. It just appears at times that every speaker upgrade is better than the Polks they went from. That means that either 1) you guys need to teach me more about what to listen for or 2) this hobby is so subjective that just thinking you are getting an upgrade make it so.

Hope I did not hurt any feelings (if I did I apologize) and am not even talking about any particular person. It is just so rare to read a post where PersonX bought SpeakerY to replace his Polks just to find out he wasted his money. Those type of posts would be very informative if the author described exactly what they did not like.


First and foremost this is a VERY SUBJECTIVE hobby. There have been some threads like you describe, but they are few and far between. No one likes to admit they made a mistake about a purchase, we all try to convince ourselves we made the right choice even if it turns out to be a downgrade.

I will say one of the contributing factors to eveything always being a great purchase is because we post only after our intial impressions which are almost always positive because we are hearing something different in the new component not always better.

I for one wrote a positively glowing review of my Athena's when I first got them. And while I'm still thrilled about them I went back and re-read the post and I don't necessarily agree 100% with what I originally wrote. That was written only a week after purchase. They are still an extremely capable speaker in the sub $300 range but their short comings have become a bit more apparent, but still in line with what they are marketed as, which is an over performing inexpensive bookshelf speaker. I don't regret the purchase, but I may have overstated some of my impressions at first. I find them lacking in some area's that leave me wanting more.

Crap, I just wrote this and realized I'm hi-jacking this thread. Well, it's somewhat mariginally on topic.

[Joey_V]

On a different topic, what I really want to read is a comparison where someone actually bought what they thought was an upgrade and decided that it was not. It just appears at times that every speaker upgrade is better than the Polks they went from. That means that either 1) you guys need to teach me more about what to listen for or 2) this hobby is so subjective that just thinking you are getting an upgrade make it so.


Holydoc,

Firstly, you're welcome for the entertainment... that's what I'm here for! :p

Secondly, not all speakers I bought after the 9s were better than the 9s. I'll give you a few examples:

- Sonus Faber Concerto and Concertino were not better overall.
- Onix Reference 1 was not better overall.

The only speakers that consistently bested the 9s or the entire LSi line for me were the Martin Logans and their level of speakers (i.e. JM Labs, Sonus Faber Cremonas, Wilson (though this is really another level pricewise), and BW (703 up)).

I personally have a lot of respect for the Polk brand... and I'm not just saying that. :)

[Zero]

Joey,

I browsed the ML boards the other day and noticed your thread.

HolyDoc,

I've made a few posts of that nature in the past (two years or so ago). In fact, I spent a year and a half going through a plethora of affordable bookshelf speakers in the 1k range. Sure, I had my select favorites, but Polk always hung in there dollar for dollar in that category.

For some people, Polk is where this hobby begins and ends. For others, Polk is a great stepping stone into the journey of Hi-Fi. As such, Polk is a product that many enjoy as they develop an understanding of what it is they want from a stereo system.

A lot of people mistakenly give false praise of a product being superior simply because they like it better - forgoing any consideration into design and design goals. Hell, I've made that mistake quite often myself - it happens, until that fateful day when you've experienced so much gear that it becomes clear that most play in the same ball-park given a specific price-point, they just do things a bit differently. Of course, like in everything, there are always exceptions... am I making sense? I sure hope so... because I have no idea whats goin on right now! ;) :D

[Holydoc]

Oh my, I did not mean to hijack this thread. Joey, I apologize. I am not kidding when I stated that I thoroughly enjoyed the comparison.

I really appreciate everyone chiming in on my off-topic comment. I am in a bad position in the fact that upgrades (or at least the higher price range speakers) are 4.5 hours away from me to try out. Driving 9 hours to hear a speaker or driving 9 hours to listen to a speaker in my house and then return 9 hours if I do not like it will get very old very quickly. That means I depend on reviews a lot to get an idea of what I should be looking for and even what brands I should consider.

For instance I learned that the radiating/planar speakers are best for 2-channel rigs. They have a fairly small sweat spot, usually very large, and typically a timbre matched center is huge while the surround speakers are normally non-existant. This was great information since I thought the sound of the these type of speakers was great but had not considered the other factors (remember I am a HT freak).

Keep up the great reviews and let me get my pencil and paper back out for some more notetaking.

:)

[Joey_V]

Joey,

I browsed the ML boards the other day and noticed your thread.


Dah... found out again!

[Joey_V]

I really appreciate everyone chiming in on my off-topic comment. I am in a bad position in the fact that upgrades (or at least the higher price range speakers) are 4.5 hours away from me to try out. Driving 9 hours to hear a speaker or driving 9 hours to listen to a speaker in my house and then return 9 hours if I do not like it will get very old very quickly. That means I depend on reviews a lot to get an idea of what I should be looking for and even what brands I should consider.

Keep up the great reviews and let me get my pencil and paper back out for some more notetaking.

:)

9 hours is a looong drive, my friend!

There are so many speakers and I think that at a certain pricepoint, most get to the point where preference takes over. At that particular pricepoint, a company's build is no longer held back by budget constraints and the product is a better reflection of the company's stand in audio. There are exceptions, of course. For example, at $10K, there are plenty of speakers that are capable of running toe-to-toe with the Summits.

Anyway, glad you enjoyed the read... I should write more often. I shouldve put into words what I thought of my semi-recent Sonus Faber Cremona/Hovland preamp/amp audition. Ugh.... why didnt I make an effort?!

Lastly, I will add to my previous post.... the LSi15 do damage to the lower end ML stats (i.e. Clarity and Aeon).

[audiobliss]

Are you trying to start something? :D :p
Not as hard as you are! :D:D :p

[Holydoc]

9 hours is a looong drive, my friend!

I agree! I just do not understand it. I live in an area with crystal white beaches where people like Michael Jordan, Tom Cruise, Burt Reynolds, etc own homes and there is NOT a decent stereo shop closer than 4.5 hours away?!! Makes zero sense to me. :mad:

/sarcasm on

I guess on the plus side there is a huge BOSE dedicated store and BOSE available all over CC, BB, etc. No wonder they have such a large customer base. :confused:

[heiney9]

Not as hard as you are! :D:D :p

All kidding aside, I wasn't trying to rub vinegar on a baboon's ass. I was just relaying my POV. And yes, Joey_V did title the thread unfair comparison. I guess I just don't see the point of testing the obvious. That's all. Good review though, well layed out and concise. IMO, just pointless.

Rock on and have fun,

H9