Do we ever forget that it's all about the music?

[Joey_V]

I just wanted to post this thread because I read on another forum about a guy who constantly amasses the most expensive wires/cables/powercords/interconnects for his system and he constantly tweaks the combinations. He has a rather small collection of music and he got rid of his initial music collection because it didnt "sound" good.

Now he has this small music collection and he runs through it over and over again with different variations of his cables... he tweaks on a weekly/daily basis because he gets bored of the sound after a few playbacks. He states that there should be just be ONE universal song that holds all the beats imagineable instead of the many many different songs that exist in this world. He also proceeds to comment that he cant listen to music unless it is in 100% tiptop reproduction through his system.

I mean, seriously.... come on!

We're not that bad are we? We're not all about the equipment right? It's still about the music, right?

Sometimes, I get caught up in the shiny and cool looking audio things, but I always try to remind myself that its all about the music coming through the transducers. The equipment is only as good as the reproduction coming through... no more, no less.

Sometimes, I feel that the luckiest audiophile isnt the one who has the biggest and baddest $30K speaker system.. but sometimes, it's the guy with perhaps the not-so-expensive setup who honestly and truly enjoys it for what it does.

RTi4, Monitor 70, R30, LSi15, SDA, ML Summits, Totem, BW, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber... it doesnt matter what you have, it's all about how much enjoyment you get out of it. Of course there's the aurally spoiled and there's the aurally humble, but in the end, he who enjoys it most, wins.

Just wanted to rant before I signed off to bed... cya!

Goodnight my Summits, we're going to create some racous tomorrow after work! Audio is a fun little hobby isnt it?! :p

[Shizelbs]

The luckiest audiophile is the one with endless time to spend in front of his/her gear, a bottomless drink at the perfect temperature, and a vast library of music.

The guy you talk about sounds absolutly nuts. What joy does that bring him? I mean really, what is the point for him?

I don't think any of us are that bad, but we should all remind ourselves periodically (some more often than others) to just go sit and have fun with music.

For example, tonight, my wife and I layed on the floor, and listening to XM radio jazz while we played with our cat. No one was in the perfect listening position, the tubes weren't all that warm, and the source was far from perfect. But, we had a great time, got some culture, and I was exposed to new music that I had not heard before.

[Joey_V]

For example, tonight, my wife and I layed on the floor, and listening to XM radio jazz while we played with our cat. No one was in the perfect listening position, the tubes weren't all that warm, and the source was far from perfect. But, we had a great time, got some culture, and I was exposed to new music that I had not heard before.

Love it man... love it. That's the way it should be! ;)

[cmy330go]

...He has a rather small collection of music and he got rid of his initial music collection because it didnt "sound" good.....he cant listen to music unless it is in 100% tiptop reproduction through his system.....

I've heard a number of people claim this about their systems. I have often wondered if it is really a "strength" or "weakness". I can see where it could be argued both ways.

Either way, that guy sounds miserable. For quite sometime it seemed all I did was try to squeeze every last note out of my system, and I realized that I had lost sight of the whole purpose of the system....MUSIC. Since then I usually only make major adjustment to my system, such as swapping speakers or components, just to fit my current mood. So far it has kept me happy for the better part of a year. Hope I'm able to keep it that way.:rolleyes:

[Early B.]

Let's face it -- if you're into really this hobby, it's all about the gear. Every one of us loves to try out different gear. Some of us even stockpile gear. That's what makes this a hobby. It ain't about the music; otherwise, this would be a music forum.

I don't care whether you believe it or not, but musical fidelity is not the goal we're trying to achieve. Hell, it ain't possible to achieve it anyways. We're called, "audiophiles," not "musicphiles." So let's stop deluding ourselves into thinking we enjoy music any more than the guy next door who's blasting his boombox or rockin' out with his Ipod.

[shack]

It's always been about the music (and the movies) for me. The gear is secondary. I would rather sit down and listen to music for an hour than spend an hour tweeking. If I never own another new/different piece of gear it's OK.

[halo]

I'm very happy with my current rig. I wouldn't mind making some changes but, since everything sounds good to me, I don't feel that I need to.

[Loud & Clear]

Sounds like someone was pulling your leg, Joey. That's a funny bit and I highly doubt that it was meant in earnest.

[GATOR3000]

I love music since I first heard my grandfather play his clarinet. I sat for hours listening to him play and those high notes were well – music to my ears.

Today we can simulate/reproduce real music in privacy of our homes to astonishing levels. This is possible due to audio components evolution. Owning and swapping new gear to me is just as important as music itself.

I love my music no doubt about it, but enjoy tweaking/experiencing new gear just as well. After all this is our hobby – right? At the end of the day it is about the music. Rock on!

Gator :) :)

[cfrizz]

For me it's all about the music. Since I joined 2 yrs ago, I have only gotten 3 amps, 1 pair of surround speakers & a cd player. If I make one more change it will be to get a prepro & then that will probably be it for me!

If all you do is constantly tweek this & that & change this & that you don't have time to find out what the differences are or what made the best change!

You're just a shopaholic for very expensive gear. And to me that's just sad.

[Early B.]

There's nothing wrong with trying out different gear and constantly tweaking your system ad infinitum. This is a HOBBY. In this hobby, that's what people do.

If you examine other hobbies, you'll find the same pattern of behavior. It is sad, though, when it becomes the most important thing in your life.

[audiobliss]

I just rediscovered this fact yet again yesterday. It's so easy to get caught up in the fervor of constant upgraditus, but the question is...are you enjoying your music?

I know I am!

[wingnut4772]

That guy sounds nuts but I can definitely see getting carried away with the gear and losing the point of it all. It's easy to do.

[GATOR3000]

There's nothing wrong with trying out different gear and constantly tweaking your system ad infinitum. This is a HOBBY. In this hobby, that's what people do.

If you examine other hobbies, you'll find the same pattern of behavior. It is sad, though, when it becomes the most important thing in your life.

1+ for Early B.
I agree patterns are sure similar to other hobbies. We always try to do better for different reasons. Passion for any hobby is good, but if it becomes an obsession and starts to take over your life, that would be sad.

The idea of this hobby in my mined is to fill my voids in day-to-day life. If I’m tired, grumpy, unhappy or just plain pissed off from work I sit in my sweet spot and abracadabra --- everything vanishes. I’m not trying to impress anyone with my gear. I do it strictly for fun, experience and love of music and whoever wants to join me. Of course most of the time I listen to music when I’m in good spirits:D not just bad:mad: .

Cheers

Gator :) :)

[audiobliss]

However, even if we only become obsessed with it to the degree that constantly only takes over our hobby, isn't that sad, too? Sure, there's a certain amount of tweaking everyone's going to do, and some more than others, but still shouldn't be the goal or the main activity in this hobby. Listening should come first. Tweaking should just fascilitate the listening.

[SolidSqual]

I'm new to the whole audiophile world, but I understand the tendency to want to maximize your gear. And then, once you've squeezed all you can out of your rig, you want to buy new gear to squeeze and tweak so more. Yesterday, after bi-wiring all my speakers I finally sat back and just listened to how beautiful my system sounds. And you know what, I felt content.

Sadly, I know I'm going to start thinking about that ultimate two channel system and start surfing the internet (just for fun, I think.)

[faster100]

I have heard and seem plenty of people right on this forum do the same thing.. maybe not sell the music collection.. But change gear and constantly scrutinize (sp) the gear and sound.. let me call one out.. Sean aka zero.. he's a prime example.. Cool guy but way to into the gear side and not enough into enjoying it long enough...

Other people like Russman just have the luxury or being able to try hundreds of pieces and that's cool.. because its a swap and try scenario moreso then a "this sucks " NEXT!! type thing IMO

I'm in between, I have tried more gear then i ever thought i would and buying and selling online makes it real easy to do.. however you can get caught up real quick with great deals...

My HT is fantastic now!! However i seen some outlaw mono's on the Agon and thought, what if i bi-amp my center speaker... BUT why it sounds good.. just to do it..

I listen to my HT for 2 channel almost all the time now!! to me, its that good.. before it was never used for music.

I say enjoy the music and movies and stop buying cables, power cords or atleast buy one and go to the next thing, not demo 5 power cords that all sound just alittle different but never thee sound you want..

[audiobliss]

^^ That ain't too cool, calling someone out like that. IMO, he's enjoyed plenty of music, despite having run through so much gear.

[zombie boy 2000]

I have heard and seem plenty of people right on this forum do the same thing.. maybe not sell the music collection.. But change gear and constantly scrutinize (sp) the gear and sound.. let me call one out.. Sean aka zero.. he's a prime example.. Cool guy but way to into the gear side and not enough into enjoying it long enough...


Trust me, in my few conversations with Sean -- it's all about the music.

[Early B.]

You guys are delusional.

If it were all about the music, we'd be scrutinizing music, not gear. It would be an entirely different conversation -- we'd be talking about how the music was mixed, digital mastering techniques, listening skills, musical instruments, history of music, or whatever. Instead, we talk about how a specific piece of gear sounds different from another piece of gear. We use music only as a means to discuss our gear. If you really think it's all about the music, then how many of us are members of a music forum?

You guys simply have a hard time admitting that you're gear whores. Audio junkies -- the whole lot of you.

[zombie boy 2000]

Early -- I'm both a gear whore and a music junkie. If I didn't love music I might be stamp collecting, but I sure as hell wouldn't be in this hobby. Means to an ultimate end -- that being the music. Ultimately, the problem is we get a taste of how good our favorite music can truly sound, and we want more of it.

Besides, it's relative anyway. Though my wife (in all her passion for music) is content with a Sony boombox, you can rest assured she draws the line at ringtones.

[audiobliss]

I think my final thought on this is: We really are about enjoying the music. However, you have to enjoy the gear in order to enjoy the music. Hence, we change out gear and tweak things, trying to get more enjoyment out of our music. I'm sure we also explore new artists and genres as far as our music goes, but we can't really change anything about the music. At least, not near as easily as we can change our gear.

[shack]

You guys are delusional.

If it were all about the music, we'd be scrutinizing music, not gear. It would be an entirely different conversation -- we'd be talking about how the music was mixed, digital mastering techniques, listening skills, musical instruments, history of music, or whatever. Instead, we talk about how a specific piece of gear sounds different from another piece of gear. We use music only as a means to discuss our gear. If you really think it's all about the music, then how many of us are members of a music forum?

You guys simply have a hard time admitting that you're gear whores. Audio junkies -- the whole lot of you.

Maybe for some...but not me. I would venture that I have more posts under threads like the "What are you listening to", "Rock Album Cover Game", "R&R reminicing", etc.. than gear threads. The gear is simply the means to the end for me. In the last year I have made only 2 audio purchases. A new turntable (since mine wasn't working well) and a set of FX300i surround speakers (only because they were white). I purchase new music and video several times EVERY month. I spend more time on HTF, Digital Bits, IMDb and Allmusic web sites than on any other audio forum and/or website other that here.

[Early B.]

Maybe for some...but not me. I would venture that I have more posts under threads like the "What are you listening to", "Rock Album Cover Game", "R&R reminicing", etc.. than gear threads. The gear is simply the means to the end for me. In the last year I have made only 2 audio purchases. A new turntable (since mine wasn't working well) and a set of FX300i surround speakers (only because they were white). I purchase new music and video several times EVERY month. I spend more time on HTF, Digital Bits, IMDb and Allmusic web sites than on any other audio forum and/or website other that here.

You're a rare gem among the coal.

[ohskigod]

I think we all enjoy music, how couldnt we and be into this hobby (music, movies, or both)

we just demand our music not only sound good music wise, but sound quality wise as well. It aint rocket science to me. If I dont like a type of music, it dont get played on my systems. I dont care if bad music sounds fantastic quality wise on my system or not.

I'm not feeling the debate here.

I do swap out gear, not because I dont like it, but because I like to try new things. I like how some music I have that doesnt sound good on one set of speakers sounds great on another. Its like discovering something you allready had, but never really appreciated.

[VR3]

I concentrated my money on gear for so long and never put forth the investment in the actual music. That is all changing, Ive added around 5 CDs in the past 2 months, which is more than Ive done really in the last 2 years - and I plan to keep that pace up. I want a vast library of music to go through, of all kinds...

But for me its 60/40 - gear/music...

[shack]

You're a rare gem among the coal.

Of course I am...;)

[Shizelbs]

I concentrated my money on gear for so long and never put forth the investment in the actual music. That is all changing, Ive added around 5 CDs in the past 2 months, which is more than Ive done really in the last 2 years - and I plan to keep that pace up. I want a vast library of music to go through, of all kinds...

Same here. Now I'm starting to collect CDs like baseball cards.

[faster100]

^^ That ain't too cool, calling someone out like that. IMO, he's enjoyed plenty of music, despite having run through so much gear.


If you read my post, it wasnt a bad call out.. Ive been on here for alot of years and think people like sean are cool to watch change gear, try tons of different stuff, But in the end Its NOT about the music if you keep each piece of gear, a week, a few months.. and do it for years on end. It was just an example..

Like Early said, for most if it was about the music.. we would be talking "about" the music.. not selling in the FM weekly and asking, what should i buy next..

Now that ive gotten into vinyl alittle.. I'm on the prowl for music on a more serious side.. older stuff not found on cd as much and different stuff to try on the TT... I truely enjoy my system now.. and all i want is a sub now. No yearning for something new in the HT anyways..

[TroyD]

^^ That ain't too cool, calling someone out like that. IMO, he's enjoyed plenty of music, despite having run through so much gear.

Not worth the breath, Cliff hasn't seen the ball since kickoff.

[jdhdiggs]

Not worth the breath, Cliff hasn't seen the ball since kickoff.

Oooh good, the popcorn just finished... *cracks a cold one*

[faster100]

Not worth the breath, Cliff hasn't seen the ball since kickoff.

blow it out your ass troy , Are we related or something? cause you sure think you know me better then anyone.. and all from an internet forum, Such talent

[RuSsMaN]

What? You mean I can play music through this stuff? All this time I just thought if I spent more money than Dorokusai, I won. Wow. I'll have to try it tonight!

[TroyD]

Blue! Your my boy!

[Zero]

Gentlemen,

We all entered this forum for similar reasons; there was a point in time when we made the decision to take our audio experience to the next level; and we stopped here along the way. Most of the members here have at one point, pursued that interest through Polk Audio products. I believe the odds are 9 to 10 that what incited us to purchase any equipment was our enthusiasm / passion for audio, be it music or theater.

Where we go from there is highly personal and is often influenced by our life-style. I personally know of two individuals that fit the image Joey painted. Men that own only a couple dozen pieces of media, but house electronics worth more than the homes they are living in. This is about as extreme as it gets. When does enthusiasm turn itself into a hobby, and when does that hobby turn into obsession / addiction? Is it exclusive to a few people, or are we all susceptible?

Home Audio is one of the most complex, easy to access hobbies that I have come across. It’s a world with few absolutes, a world with thousands of possibilities with an equal number of contrasting experiences and opinions that all come together to both help and challenge you to reach a final goal – satisfaction.

Given the nature of the beast, it is easy to find yourself enthralled in this world – caught up in the thrill of discovering what’s out there and how it pertains to taking an already pleasurable experience to the next level. Some manage to avoid it, and some do not. Those that do not often will end up like a dog chasing its tail – trying to find that illusive ‘sound’ and in the process – losing sight of the bottom line and stuck in a vicious circle.

Most of us here are by nature and by heart, music lovers. However, it would do us no service to dis-illusion ourselves and pretend there is little to no interest in the electronics that give us the experience we crave. For many, the shiny gear is or has become a fundamental piece of the over-all experience.

I will let Joey’s word’s close this particular passage;


RTi4, Monitor 70, R30, LSi15, SDA, ML Summits, Totem, BW, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber... it doesnt matter what you have, it's all about how much enjoyment you get out of it. Of course there's the aurally spoiled and there's the aurally humble, but in the end, he who enjoys it most, wins.

[Zero]

Cliff,

It looks like I was honored enough to be used as an example in your responses in the thread. Like most things at this place, I find it pretty funny. The bottom line here is you have absolutely zero insight into my listening habits, how often music is played, my collection of media, and other passions / roots that extend itself beyond home audio. It just so happens that I like the toys that play-back stereo music, I love the different designs, the history, and results certain pieces can deliver when brought together.

[madmax]

Its NOT all about the music. I know many people who truely love music. MP3's are fine with them. In their world music comes together the same in their mind no matter what the fidelity.

Me, I'm into sounds. The tone of the notes from various instruments. I can sit and listen to a cool guitar, B3 or trumpet note all night long. If it does or doesn't blend in with all the other notes I don't really care. I can listen to and enjoy music which I do not care for. On the other side I find it very hard to listen to music I love if reproduced poorly. I must admit, I'm turning more toward music content as I age, but it still must have fidelity for me to enjoy it.

madmax

[audiobliss]

^^ I can't relate to that. If it ain't making me tap my foot, I don't care how well it was recorded, I'm turning it off. If it's making me tap my foot and bob my head, I may wish it sounded better, but I'm going to keep playing it.

[John in MA]

I don't get the super-gear-tweaker types. I also don't get folks who love listening to everything through a Sony boombox or MP3 player headphones. Guess I'm in between somewhere. I find a great deal of enjoyment listening to good music through a cheap system (my computer, for instance, with junky multimedia speakers) but I get greater enjoyment when I can hear its full potential. On the other hand, lousy music (ie: hip-hop, etc), no matter how well recorded will drive me out of the room on the world's most expensive stereo.

Endlessly messing with hardware gives me no pleasure. I sometimes get a little too much wrapped into trying things when I have them side-by-side. Other than that it's not a big issue. I fully realize what faults my rig does or may have. It's good enough for me and until something better falls in my lap I won't sweat it.

Although I'll always kick myself for selling my Scott 299a, my only tube amp.

[Lsi9]

Excellent thread, for me the music is very important, maybe because I play giutar and write songs, but I think many audiophiles love the music also, but we get lost in the upgraditis and forget what got us here to begin with.

I always found it awkward that music isn't discussed on this forum or other audio/video forums. I have become a big african music fan and have found this genre the best for serious listening because of the odd instruments and instrumentation.
I guess you also get tired of a certain genre of music, will always love my Rock but I need a breaK from it once in awhile.
Nothing like listening to African music on a good system

we should discuss good (sound quality) music for serious listening, I know I would love some recommendations

[Early B.]

What makes us so unique? Well, it ain't because we're music lovers. Ever heard of anyone who hates music? And it ain't because we enjoy higher quality music. Try making that argument to the neighbor who believes his $100 boombox sounds as good as your $10K system. We are no different than the gun enthusiast who buys a gun, takes it out to the range a few times, then sells it and buys another one. Of course we love how music sounds through our gear, and likely so does everyone else who listens to it.

And we can't help it -- audio is our drug. We have to keep tweaking. That's our fix. And many of you are in denial. It's OK, though. The first step is recognizing that you have a problem. There's an Audioholics Anonymous meeting in your area. Just pick up the phone and make the call. You'll be glad you did.

[madmax]

I have become a big african music fan and have found this genre the best for serious listening because of the odd instruments and instrumentation.


I've been seriously looking for this type of music but have only found a few items, mostly the exception to the normal stuff out there I think. Basically, no luck at all. Care to share a few titles in a new thread?
madmax

[ND13]

Damn and I got all my gear just to listen to NPR and talk radio:rolleyes: ;) :D

[univera]

I don't see how anyone can say this isn't about the music, or at least largely about the music. My love for music started in my teens and led me to bigger and better equipment. I think many of us stumble on the fact that there is way better shit out there than our first JVC rack system, which I loved to death! Fortunately; it had a fatal problem. It was still cool gear to me at the time. Yet, when I walked in the repair shop and the owner was selling a Boston sub and two Rotel amps, I knew there was something special, simply by looking at the simplicity and quality build of the designs.

I in turn stubled across a sweet pair of AR pawn shop speakers and so it began. Ulitimately, my desire to listen to tunes led to my purchase of better gear.

I have since found that this forum is responsible for further purchases. I thought my AVR sounded awesome, but when I heard the SDA's and discovered this site, I realized that there was much more to go. The fact that I am fortunate to own a pair of speakers that aren't easily bested and which would require a significant investment to do so is great as I don't feel the need to ever upgrade my speakers. In my mind, I am done. Only new gear from time to time down the line.

I'm one who would prefer NOT to swap gear out all the time. I want to sit back and enjoy, not stress over constantly swapping out gear and cables. I'm content to "go big" (as much as financially possible) to buy the best I can afford and stay pat for quite some time. Even now, the idea of auditioning and swapping cables causes me stress. I want to buy a good set that can carry a clean signal and just chill.

Ultimately, it is about the music. I won't listen to cRAP, no matter how tight it might sound on my system. The love for the music and SOUND is what leads to upgrades and sizeable purchases. The gear is cool and looks definitely play a part (I would never buy Parasound because I just don't like the look for whatever reason) but reproduction of a clean, realistic SOUND is what drives me. If its a shitty CD SOUND wise, it might as well be played on my bedside radio.

And, with the addition of Signal Cable Risers, I don't think I will ever need to upgrade.....

[Jstas]

Heh. This is too good to pass up!

First off, Zero has plenty to do with music. From what I have seen, his collection is not huge by most standards but what he does have, he throughly enjoys. Just because he runs through gear doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy music.

For me, it's about the gear. It's not about the coolest stuff or shiniest stuff. It's about getting the most out of what I have. I have put together stereos on the serious cheap and they are verifiable giant killers. I also have some expensive gear that I managed to get on the cheap too but most of what I have, I have aquired in a broken state and repaired to working condition for my enjoyment. That's not to say I don't enjoy music. That's not true at all. I got in to this hobby through car audio and competitions where there is an extreme focus on gear and performance and music is secondary.

Then again, it's also about the music, I can't help but enjoy it. However, I don't have to be listening on a high dollar rig to enjoy it. My $50 Magnavox boom box works just as well when I'm in the garage or doing some sort of yard work. I'll still enjoy the music. The boombox sounds like crap compared to the other gear I have but the sound doesn't have to be perfect for me to enjoy the music. There is so much more to music than just how it sounds. It's an emotional experience capable of conjuring up your most distant memories of good times and bad, family and friends and times gone by. I still have a transistor radio that I will listen to from time to time. I have never heard Frank Sinatra or even Harry Kalas commentating the Phillies ever sound better on a sunny, summer, Sunday afternoon. Whenever I have it on and a game is on, I can almost smell my grandfather's beer and hear him cracking the peanuts. If Frank Sinatra is on, I'm at my uncle's house again playing with the dog while the Eagles game plays in the background and my aunt is cooking up some stew or her incredible tomato sauce.

The gear is seperate from the music for me. The music can be played on anything. I've actually transferred old LP's of Christmas music to CD and preserved the cracks and pops of the LP just because it mimics the sound of my dad's old turntable and I feel like a kid again when it's on. The gear is just a way to enjoy the music. Music can be enjoyed live or recorded and on any media you want. The gear though, that is a whole other level of enjoyment! The hum and glow of the tubes, the smell of the transformers in the amps burning ozone like it's going out of style, the click, thump and hum of an old solid state amp powering on or the mechnical clicking and groaning of a turntable after you flipped to side 2. Remember B-sides? Better yet! The look and feel of a vintage speaker cabinet dressed out in REAL wood veneers in walnut, cherry, oak, poplar, beech, chestnut or maple! The textured grille cloths and elaborate wooden lattices just aren't found anymore. There is little on this earth that can match the beauty in both teh look and the engineering behind it like a perfectly executed wooden horn!

The music is an abstract art made by man and laced with meaning and emotion over every single note. However, the gear is a concrete art born of science and engineering and a culmination of what man has managed to accomplish on this earth in his short time here. Neither is more worthy of consideration over the other. The gear is just as important as the music. The gear often gets overlooked because it gets taken for granted all in the name of the seemingly high and noble ideal of being "in it for the music".

Nah, I'm in it for both! There is just too much beneath the surface to see, hear and appreciate to forsake one for the other.

[joeparaski]

To me it started at an early age with the music. I would spend hours in front of the family "stereo" and record songs on my handheld cassette player with a microphone pointed at the speaker.

Later, in my early teens, I got an Electrohome stereo (the one that looked space-age with a half-moon cover and bowling ball speakers) and I'd lie on the bed with one speaker next to each ear and listen to Pink Floyd.

As I got older I started to hang around more and more in audio stores looking at the gear and thinking about how much better my music would sound with better gear. Sometime in the late 70's, I remember paying $3500 for a Nakamichi rack, and I'd find myself inviting friends over to listen to music like they never heard it before. I believe that it was at that time that my love affair with "rack mount" equipment started.

So for me it was about the MUSIC first, and what the gear can do to that music was SECOND. I had friends over for LISTENING sessions....where we would sit facing the speakers, dim the lights, and listen to rock music or if we wanted to freak out a bit, we'd listen to Oxygene by Jean Michel Jarre. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the room decor.....I had this psychedelic wall paper and I painted florescent stars on the ceiling, that I lit up with a black neon light.

My obsession with power came about when I went through the mobile disco phase, where is was about the gear FIRST and how loud your system could play at the school dance.

Joe

[faster100]

Cliff,

It looks like I was honored enough to be used as an example in your responses in the thread. Like most things at this place, I find it pretty funny. The bottom line here is you have absolutely zero insight into my listening habits, how often music is played, my collection of media, and other passions / roots that extend itself beyond home audio. It just so happens that I like the toys that play-back stereo music, I love the different designs, the history, and results certain pieces can deliver when brought together.

Oh relax Sean, it wasnt derogatory (sp) you do go through tons of gear and it amazes and amuses me to watch... and i never said i knew what you listened to or didn't.. lets everybody take cliff's word our of context.. :D

[Midnite Mick]

It's funny you say that Joey as I have acquired all the equipment that I have in about the last 7 or 8 months or so and alot of the cd's that I used to listen to and love sound horrible now. Case in point one of my favourite cd's was/is the Rolling Stones Sticky Fingers and now I literally hear a distracting noise in the background that wasn't there before. Do I give up this music? Do I only listen to it on different systems? or maybe the answer is LP's?

Mike

[Zero]

Cliff,

I'm completely relaxed. Its a cool night -the windows open - sage burnin'.. I didn't find anything condenscending about your remarks. When I am being used as an example, all that I ask is is that it be accurate to a reasonable degree. I got a chuckle out of your comments. Of course, I don't take it seriously. Hell, I'm glad I can offer up some form of entertainment! However, the bottom line in my response is to point out that I am far from being strictly equipment oriented - which was more/less the message and example you created. If you were able to answer my questions above - than I wouldn't be posting this right now.

This Music Lover / Gear Whore - out!

[Holydoc]

Mine is about the HT. *cheer* I have owned my system only for over a year now. When I got it, I bought it because I had just purchased a receiver that could handle 7.1 sound and wanted to "experience" the movie rather than just watch it. Now that I have purchased a decent system for HT and have learned quite a bit more about it, I want to get the most out of it. That is why I will be swapping out equipment and upgrading speakers. Not because I am addicted to buying and selling equipment, but because I bought my system to give me pleasure. If I can add or upgrade a piece to make me smile a bit more because I become encompassed more in the movie, then that piece is worth every penny.

Confession is over. I send you back to your regularly scheduled two-channel station.

>>> knows he is going to be banned from the 2-channel threads very soon. Runs away! <<<

:)

[TroyD]

Oh relax Sean, it wasnt derogatory (sp) you do go through tons of gear and it amazes and amuses me to watch... and i never said i knew what you listened to or didn't.. lets everybody take cliff's word our of context.. :D

What concern is it of yours Cliff? Wanna have a discussion of YOUR personal habits? Got any more X-box's to try and hose the forum on? Any speakers to sell to "a friend" at more than you paid? Subs to underpack?

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.

Cheers,
Franks & Beans

[faster100]

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.

Cheers,
Franks & Beans


Nah Russ, he's so fucking full of shit his eye's are brown from it, keep it coming Troy dick face... keep it coming

Get some more free records and then sell them in "great sets" for 200% profitt, sell some more grunt broken dynaco gear to the young man, the shitiest models, and be a baby after this post and start a worthless tribute to me thread, (like you always do) and finally try and follow me around and smell my ass because obviously your home life lacks and you have nothing better to do ... see i can name off random shit too

[faster100]

Cliff,

I'm completely relaxed. Its a cool night -the windows open - sage burnin'.. I didn't find anything condenscending about your remarks. When I am being used as an example, all that I ask is is that it be accurate to a reasonable degree. I got a chuckle out of your comments. Of course, I don't take it seriously. Hell, I'm glad I can offer up some form of entertainment! However, the bottom line in my response is to point out that I am far from being strictly equipment oriented - which was more/less the message and example you created. If you were able to answer my questions above - than I wouldn't be posting this right now.

This Music Lover / Gear Whore - out!

Oh quite being a stinkin baby about it.. move out of mothers house and see how much gear you can buy :rolleyes:

[Zero]

I'll move into yo momma's house !! oooooooooo snap! :D :p

Edit: Joey - Sorry the thread had to turn out like this - but you know how it is 'round here.

[TroyD]

This just in from Cliff via PM


your a c**k sucker!!! feel better now..

Sleep well Cliff, I sure do. G'head and check around and see if anyone feels if they got less than they bargained for in any deal that they made with me. Also, not that any LP set that I've sold, I've included at least three more LP's and priority shipping. Yup, a real dicking I've laid on them.

Actually, AB opted not to by the Dynaco gear in favor of a Parasound amp.

I'm up at this hour because I'm at work, actually. The things that I mentioned, unlike your suppositions are documented fact, Cliff. The Dynaco stuff works like a champ, in fact, I've got it hooked up to my LSi9's right now and the combo sounds pretty damn good.

The truth shall set you free my brotha.

BDT

[TroyD]

As to the original intent of the thread:

For me it's probably 65/35 in favor of the music. While I enjoy music on my rigs, I also have no issue with either my ipod or the one speaker that still works in my truck.

That said, the hobby for me has taken a turn away from swapping gear. The basis of my rigs has been fairly stable for about a year now and I really don't see that changing much. I like the gear I've got and see no need to make any drastic changes.

BDT

[Fireman32]

I have to say thats its about the music. Being new to this hobby at first i wanted all of the best gear i can get and have an impressive looking system, but really what good is all of the gear if were not listening to music on it? Since getting into this hobby my tastes in music have branched out an now im enjoying music i never thought that i would enjoy. Thanks to my boy lou (ohskigod) he helped me put together a very nice sounding system through a few equipment swaps from solid state to tubes and now i am very happy with it and do not plan on swapping out ger anytime soon. The only equipment i might get is a better cd player but thats it for now. For myself i can get home after a long night at work and throw a cd into the player and just enjoy listening to some music and chillin. just my .02 cents

[Holydoc]

That said, the hobby for me has taken a turn away from swapping gear. The basis of my rigs has been fairly stable for about a year now and I really don't see that changing much. I like the gear I've got and see no need to make any drastic changes.

BDT

Just out of curiosity, what gear do you have now?

[TroyD]

In the Living Room rig:

SDA SRS 2.3t's (w RDO tweeters)
Philips DVD963SA SACD player
Polk XM tuna
Sunfire tube pre
Classe 25 amp

Cave rig:
AR9's
VPI HW-19 MkIII w/Rega RB300 arm/Dynavector 10x5 cart
Jolida JD100 tube cd player
Melos SHA-1 preamp
Conrad-Johnson MV-75A1 tube amp

BDT

[F1nut]

I like to look at the pretty lights.

[TroyD]

you are drinking too much cheap merlot and eating too much moldy cheese

[organ]

One thing's for sure. We all got into this hobby because of our love for music. The audio virus is everywhere, always ready to infect a few within a group of people. Once bitten, there's usually no turning back.

What I'm trying to say is, we all remember the first time we got into audio. Remember how things changed for us? It made us enjoy our music more than before because of better sound quality. This is the blessing and curse the audio virus gave us.

What we did (in those early days) without knowing is raise our standards in sound reproduction MUCH higher than other folks who can easily enjoy their music being played back on an iPod or a boombox. We demand a lot more from our stereos. Having systems with greater resolution and a more complete frequency range, we're able to see more of the aural soundscape. This is now our reference point. We've achieved something. And this is where the upgradetitus begins. As we sit there and listen to our music, we wonder how much better it can sound or which area we want to improve.

MY GOAL is to get involved with the music. I want it to communicate its power, emotions and overall atmosphere. But at the same time, I want my system to transport my mind to far off places. I want to explore new lands, oceans, rainforests and culture. Our caves is our sanctuary from the outside world and brutal reality. We want our systems to make us forget about everything and just enjoy being somewhere else for however many hours a day we listen. Our rigs are virtual reality machines, that with our eyes closed, we're able to visualize a realistic and very believable soundscape (many refer to this as the "Audio Matrix").

I spent the entire week tube rolling from source to amplification. I was swapping and trying different combination of tubes like there's no tomorrow. Did I enjoy this? Hell yeah! It's my hobby. After many days of tweaking, I was able to get one particular part of the sound spectrum to my liking. I was able to give the mids and highs this nice wet, lush and sparkly sound. It was quite a bit of time and money but a small price to pay to add this nice environmental factor to the seceneries being produced by my virtual reality machine. So tonight, I plan to sit down in the dark, close my eyes and enjoy this heightened sense of realism I created.

Some people get there at $200, some at $2000, $10 000 etc. Hell, some probably won't ever get close.

I guess, for us, the better the sound, the more we can enjoy our music.

BUT, to sell off a large portion of our music collection because it didn't meet our standards for sound quality, is plain dumb. We enjoy certain songs because it has meaning for us. In my rig, I can still enjoy good music even though the recording was bad.

Maurice

[joeparaski]

Very well said Organ....much applause to you. And then I looked at your join date and location and wondered.....

[adam2434]

For some, audio gear is a hobby. For others, audio gear is an appliance.

Same can be said for cars, guns, cameras, computers, etc.

For me, being into music (from an early age) has led to audio gear becoming a hobby - trying to enhance musical enjoyment with each purchase.

I also think there is a personality factor that makes certain people prone to becoming a hard-core hobbyist/collector of any sort or variety. I know that, as a kid, I had other hard-core hobbies, whereas my friends just seemed to dabble in stuff in a much more laid back manner. Maybe there's a little OCD tendency at the heart of this (just speaking for myself).

[organ]

Joe,
LOL:D I'm actually in Toronto, Canada. Not too far from you:).

Adam,
Very interesting. I think you're on to something. I have a little problem with OCD as well. Found out when I had to take a misc. subject in college. Took Intro to Psychology and that's where I found out. Last week, I took some psychology test online, and guess what, my rating for OCD is "high". It also listed other symptoms I may have (certainly hope not!).

Some people can listen to a high performance rig and still enjoy their music just as much on their boombox.
Musicians would be a fine choice. I once read an article (can't remember what it's called) which tried to explain why musicians have great instruments, ears but are completely satisfied with boom boxes. They said musicians listen to music in a different way than non-musicians. They care more about timbre and timing. Whatever, their sound system won't produce, their brains fill in the empty spaces. Say the system rolls off at 60Hz, they get the fundemental (mids) and their brain tells them the bass is or should be doing this at this time. You know, like when we hear something we already know on a cheap table radio. It can't produce bass but we already know it's there and how it's being played. Our brains are just filling in the empty spaces.

For us gear whores and music lovers, our hobby just enhances the experience. Take people with sexual fetishes as an example. They enjoy the sex but they say performing certain fetish acts that gets them going is an enhancement to their sexual pleasure.

[MSALLA]

I look at the equipment as a tool to listen to music or movies. But you know you always have to have the best & newest tools.

[organ]

I look at the equipment as a tool to listen to music or movies. But you know you always have to have the best & newest tools.

There will probably be no best. That's when you've reached your goal. But don't forget vintage gear. I have a vintage amp that can blow away modern ones.

[heiney9]

Sorry people not feeling the debate. The reason for tweaking/swapping gear is ultimately for the music….. Period! Sure sometimes we may get lost in the allure of new gear just for the sake of change or because we have some $$$ burning a hole in our pocket, but to be an audiophile is to be a musicphile. If better music reproduction isn’t the end result what’s the point. Sure there are gear collectors who just have gear to say they have gear. I don’t find that sort of individual too often on CP.

Sometimes the quest for better audio reproduction leads certain music to be less enjoying because of the flaws the new gear reveals. This is just a by product of this hobby. It happens a fair amount of time to me for certain music, but that’s life and if that’s the case the music wasn’t recorded/mastered/engineered all that well to being with. One positive side effect is it makes musical passages that are recorded properly sound spectacular.

H9

[Kenneth Swauger]

Hello,
Good thread! One of the ways I've always explained good audio equipment to people is by using an analogy. Let's say you're in an art museum and you see a painting by Matisse that really amazes you. There's something about the way the artist used colors and light to make something that really scored a hit with you. So, after the visit you go to the gift shop, in the lobby, and decide you want to take something with you to remember that particular painting. You find that there's a 3" x 5" black and white postcard of the same painting. You look at it and you can remember, very well, what the subject of the painting was and how you liked it. For many people that would be sufficient, the card costs $1.00, is easy to carry around and does the job. But, you look in another place, in the gift shop, and find there's a 3" x 5" color postcard of the same painting. Ah ha, now you have the image and it's in color. You can now remember how pretty the flowers were and the way different colors blended together, the sky looks much more real. The color postcard is $3.00, triple what the black and white one was, but for you, well worth the money. It's still portable and easy to carry around with you. Just as you get to the check out counter you find they also sell full size color posters of the same painting. Now this is really cool, not only do you have the image, and the color (maybe the colors are even more accurate to the original) but now it's about the same size as the painting. You look at the price tag and its $25.00 and definitely it will be harder to deal with. You will have to put it on your wall and maybe even get it framed with a glass cover to protect it. But look what you now have, you can very easily remember exactly the feeling you had when you were first blown away by this picture.
And then, just as you've got your wallet out and are standing in line you notice that guy in front of you has a special version of the painting where they used a laser printer to print a duplicate of the painting on canvass. Now there's everything, the colors, the size and the texture of the original printed on real cloth canvass. But, you look at the price tag and its $250.00 including a nice wooden frame and glass protecting it. You've gone from a $1.00 investment to considering $250.00 and have to decide which level of reproduction, of something you like, that will satisfy you. For everyone there will be a different answer and each person has to determine which one is right for him. But, don't forget it was the initial connection, between a long dead artist and you that started the whole process. Matisse isn't going to paint any more paintings and most mortals are not able to own the originals. So, the best bet is to try and appreciate art at whatever level satisfies you.
Ken

[zombie boy 2000]

Slap a gold star on our good friend Kenneth...

excellent analogy and I'd like your permission to use it

[Kenneth Swauger]

Absolutely!

[heiney9]

Great analogy Ken, it’s always nice to see you posting outside of the troubleshooting forum. :)

H9

[Ricardo]

In my case, I think I have a handicap ..I have bad ears (edit....I think bad hearing would be more what I mean :)); to me it is difficult to hear some differences between two pieces of gear than for others. Maybe others say they hear differences because they want to hear it or they need to justify the cost of the upgrade or something? There's the obvious differences that make something sound good and inviting, from something that sounds plain bad and no matter what the music is playing you just don't enjoy it, but things like changing a wire, or differences between two similar CD players...I just don't get them.

In any case, I seem to enjoy music where others find something does not sound quite right. Handicap or blessing?

[zombie boy 2000]

HT --

enjoying music is always a blessing
(whatever the means, medium, translation, etc.)

[Early B.]

In my case, I think I have a handicap ..I have bad ears (edit....I think bad hearing would be more what I mean :)); to me it is difficult to hear some differences between two pieces of gear than for others. Maybe others say they hear differences because they want to hear it or they need to justify the cost of the upgrade or something? There's the obvious differences that make something sound good and inviting, from something that sounds plain bad and no matter what the music is playing you just don't enjoy it, but things like changing a wire, or differences between two similar CD players...I just don't get them.

In any case, I seem to enjoy music where others find something does not sound quite right. Handicap or blessing?

Bullshit.:p You don't have a hearing handicap. How many upgrades have you done in the past year?

If you truly have that handicap, consider yourself blessed.

[PolkThug]

Music??? I been listening to just test tones for years. I almost got my system tweaked enough for actual music, but not quite.

[Ricardo]

Bullshit.:p You don't have a hearing handicap. How many upgrades have you done in the past year?

If you truly have that handicap, consider yourself blessed.

I am not saying I have not tried.....I did do some upgrades; I got the itch from this place :). Some of them showed an improvement, some just didn't click it, and some were just a way to try something new/different; Every time I expected to hear a difference and I couldn't, I did feel somehow fustrated.....because of what others had to say for similar changes...but hey, if it sounds good both ways, I take the cheap side :)

I've been happy with my system for months now; now I am ready to try something new with the AL-III's. This would fall in the "obvious" differences, for the good from what I hear.

[Holydoc]

Music??? I been listening to just test tones for years. I almost got my system tweaked enough for actual music, but not quite.

:D :D :D

[madmax]

I am not saying I have not tried.....I did do some upgrades.


Unless you really have a known hearing deficiency I suspect you have a component which limits everything else. This has happened to me a couple times and each time it took me by suprise when I happened to replace the component. Not saying you have to find this component and upgrade, but it would be nice... :D
madmax

Edit: Not to mention that if/when you do find the limiting component you will be compelled to keep going.

[Ricardo]

Unless you really have a known hearing deficiency I suspect you have a component which limits everything else. This has happened to me a couple times and each time it took me by suprise when I happened to replace the component. Not saying you have to find this component and upgrade, but it would be nice... :D
madmax

Edit: Not to mention that if/when you do find the limiting component you will be compelled to keep going.


You might be right.......so I'm thinking..I'LL BETTER NOT FIND IT !!!! :D

[organ]

Hello,
Good thread! One of the ways I've always explained good audio equipment to people is by using an analogy. Let's say you're in an art museum and you see a painting by Matisse that really amazes you. There's something about the way the artist used colors and light to make something that really scored a hit with you. So, after the visit you go to the gift shop, in the lobby, and decide you want to take something with you to remember that particular painting. You find that there's a 3" x 5" black and white postcard of the same painting. You look at it and you can remember, very well, what the subject of the painting was and how you liked it. For many people that would be sufficient, the card costs $1.00, is easy to carry around and does the job. But, you look in another place, in the gift shop, and find there's a 3" x 5" color postcard of the same painting. Ah ha, now you have the image and it's in color. You can now remember how pretty the flowers were and the way different colors blended together, the sky looks much more real. The color postcard is $3.00, triple what the black and white one was, but for you, well worth the money. It's still portable and easy to carry around with you. Just as you get to the check out counter you find they also sell full size color posters of the same painting. Now this is really cool, not only do you have the image, and the color (maybe the colors are even more accurate to the original) but now it's about the same size as the painting. You look at the price tag and its $25.00 and definitely it will be harder to deal with. You will have to put it on your wall and maybe even get it framed with a glass cover to protect it. But look what you now have, you can very easily remember exactly the feeling you had when you were first blown away by this picture.
And then, just as you've got your wallet out and are standing in line you notice that guy in front of you has a special version of the painting where they used a laser printer to print a duplicate of the painting on canvass. Now there's everything, the colors, the size and the texture of the original printed on real cloth canvass. But, you look at the price tag and its $250.00 including a nice wooden frame and glass protecting it. You've gone from a $1.00 investment to considering $250.00 and have to decide which level of reproduction, of something you like, that will satisfy you. For everyone there will be a different answer and each person has to determine which one is right for him. But, don't forget it was the initial connection, between a long dead artist and you that started the whole process. Matisse isn't going to paint any more paintings and most mortals are not able to own the originals. So, the best bet is to try and appreciate art at whatever level satisfies you.
Ken

That's one of the best explanation I've seen. Thanks for sharing, Ken. I'll remember that next time my friends tell me I'm insane for buying audio gear.

HTrookie,
No way man. If you had hearing problems, you wouldn't be here with us.:)

[SCompRacer]

Hello,
Good thread! One of the ways I've always explained good audio equipment to people is by using an analogy.

http://home.comcast.net/~scompracer/gif/respect.gif