Hk 635 Avr

[jakelm]

Hey all, I have a few questions for who might know the answer to.

As some know I just picked up a HK 635. What an awsome reciever, when its not freezing up on me. It seems to freeze up when exiting the EZ EQ menu. Anyone else have this issue? Also, I noticed after the auto calibration with EZeq, my size and delay setting are changed, but also my bass and treble. But when I check tone controls, they are flat. I know it has been changed but I cant find what has been changed or where those settings are. Does the HK have a built in EQ or something? I ran the EZ one time and my left front channel was brighter (more treble) than the right. I do both the surround EZ and the nearfield EZ. Does it equalize every channel individually? Not only size but bass and treble too? One other thing, how do you know whether you need the software update, availiable through the HK website?

Thanks
Jake

[AndyGwis]

I can chime in for the upgrade part. . . click on this link and follow the instructions. I didn't have any problems doing it, but others have. Just make sure to follow them step by step, it's really quite easy.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=609957

You will need an older computer that has the serial (9 pin) RS232 whatever.

[jakelm]

Thanks Andy..will do

You have any idea on what going on with the Eq setting when you use EZsetup? Whe I do a reset, do those "subsettings" go back to 0?

[tommyboy]

I hate the easy setup thingy do,always screws things up more than helps(at least with my system). do everything manually with a meter.

[AndyGwis]

I've run with calibration EZEQ thing with good (not great) results. I usually will run it, then make some changes manually, then run it again. I'm guessing that's not the most effective way to do it, but seems to work.

Here are some tips on the EZEQ thing that aren't in the manual. Helped me quite a bit. Make sure to use a tripod.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=557549&page=1&pp=30

Take some time and read this article (or, at least the first few pages). It will greatly help you understand your HK and how to get the most out of it using the EZEQ. In fact, I'm going home during my lunch to reread and rerun the calibration since I made some recent setup changes.

Also, the far field's test tones makes my subwoofer rattle the apartment. I get chills everytime :)

[jakelm]

I end up changing the xover points for all speakers (also changing from large to small), I leave the distance and delay where the reciever has them set. But I just cant get what the reciever is doing eq wize? Why sometimes when I do it..its super bright, while other times I'll run it and its flat as a board. But no matter wether its bright or flat...the tone controls are always flat.

[jakelm]

oh...and the nearfield I cant figure out. What going on there? Is the HK testing the dynamics of each front speaker?

[Ron Temple]

I've played with the Pio MCACCA(?) and Yamaha Ypao, they do make cuts and bumps through the FR at various points. I assume the 635 does too. As Andy said, I'd run the auto eq a couple of times, then go back and adjust speaker size, crossover and distance manually, leaving the EQ alone. Both competitor's systems has an OSD menu option to display where the EQ'd bands are. I'd think HK would have one as well.

You might want to take some questions over to AVS, there's several long running 635 threads always going.

Good luck

[jakelm]

Thanks Ron, but I'm unable to find in the OSD menu where the EQ'd bands are.

Also I read this:
"A follow up is that I noticed some changes with EzSet - it must have different calculations - the microphone position is different than my old firmware. Near fields are done at 2 feet instead of 3, and the initial mic position is at ear level rather than 3 feet above. Something has changed although it's hard to hear with the ears if there is a discernible improvement."

this tells me I might have the lastest version....My HK is factory refurb so it probably has the latest firmware. Besides reading other post, is there anyware in the OSD that tells you what verision firmware you have?

Thanks for the help all
Jake

[jakelm]

Wow,,,,I'm still reading that last thread Andy posted. This guy M Code must be from Harmon, but he is recomending taking 6 or 7 steps in calibrating the system.

I would suggest the following:
1. Do a Processor Reset.
Note this will erase your stations presets and surround settings but brings you back to the startup defaults.
2. Set HK635 volume level @ -28dB.
3. On the subwoofer enclosure, set Subwoofer level control to about midway and X-over frequency control to max
4. Make sure you have a tripod and the extension rod installed
5. Run the EQ, for the Near Field the microphone should be aimed between the loudspeaker's tweeter and mid-range. Mike should be about 8-10" away but the spherical end aimed at the loudspeaker. Tilt teh tripod about 60 degrees.
6. Run the EQ for Far Field. Place the tripod in the listener's position, aiming upwards but the height of the microphone should be @ ear level while sitting.

Now if you notice #2, -28dbs....the instructions clearly read -35dbs, why would you raise the volume to -28? Is this with the old firmware?

#5 mentions nearfield. Nearfield isnt an option until after farfield, at least on my set.


And I thought this would be a snap...lol

[Ron Temple]

M Code is an installer that specializes in HK. He's pretty much "the Man" when it comes to their receivers.

I never said there isn't a level of complexity involved ;)

[jakelm]

Ron would you or anyone know if in the OSD, is there a way to find out what firmware version you have?

[short circuit]

Have the receiver in the standby mode, then press and hold the right arrow button behind the front door panel and release it when the unit turns on.
The version is in the display.

[jakelm]

Thanks circuit.


Im still reading this thread...I'm on page 6, seems a few people are having problems with resets and skipped seconds on thier cd tracks. Just for the record, besides the few times it froze on me, I have none of these problems.

Looks like I will be calibrating a few times tonight....again...lol

Jake

[jakelm]

Real quick guys....

If my computer doesnt have a rs-232 port...would this work? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2292430&cp=&origkw=rs-232&kw=rs-232&parentPage=search

[Ron Temple]

Looks like it would work from here...:)

[jakelm]

I just checked....I have version 4.12 which I think is the latest

[short circuit]

According to the instructions 4.12 or 5.12 are the latest. I read on the AVS forum that the USB to RS-232 adapter will not work.

[jakelm]

After 3 recalibrations, using both my settings manual EZ Eq and automatic EZeq, I cant get that raspy sound out of my system. I tilted the mic toword the front speakers, and I had it straight up. Near field was about 12" from L, C and R. With mic pointed straight toword speaker. The only thing I didnt do was, instead of pointing the mic between the mid and tweeter, I'm going to try to point it directly at the tweeter, maybe that will tone it down some.

I dont know if you guys are familiar with peerless tweeters, but my mains and center have this tweeter, and the HK is making them sound like they are blown, they have a bad buzz when vocal is strong, I know its not my speakers, because I tested them on my hafler amp...and they sound sweet and natural. But the HK is giving them a metallic sound. Its not my source because both cable and DVD have the same issue, I'm not sure how to fix this.

Any help would be appreciated.

Jake

[jakelm]

What is the 5.12? Is that for the 735? Or some higher model?

Jake

[Ern Dog]

Since you aren't having success using the EZ EQ, I'd scrap the idea and get an SPL and calibration disc and do it all manually.

[jakelm]

I redid the Eq, pointing the mic directly at the tweeter.....made a huge difference, toned it down alot...I think I've got it. Thanks all for the help:D

Jake

[AndyGwis]

Keep reading those threads. . . print them out and read it when you have some free time. Some of it is crap, but everything by MCode is relevant and helpful. You'll learn a lot about your AVR.

Enjoy! It's a nice piece of equipment.

[jakelm]

LOL....Andy...I have been reading for two days...just on page 11. But yes you are right, that is about the best thread out there with info on the 635. I would do excatly as you did and recommend that thread to anyone wanting ifno on that unit. It has helped me out a bunch. One just needs to over look the negativity, and scan for the info by M Code. Thanks for recommending it to me. I think I've got it now...but I'm never finished tweaking.

Jake

[Lowell_M]

:eek: I followed this guys calibration technique to the 'T' this evening after finally getting everything set up in my new media room, and WOW!!!! What a difference.

I had been complaining of a "mid bass bloat" (for lack of better articluation) since buying an ADCOM 555 and after calibrating the sound stage is absolutely amazing. You are enveloped with sound in 2-channel and bass is tight and precise, even through the velodyne. Vocals are amazing.

(on a different subject, this new room is in my basement with 1/3 the total room volume than my living room/dining room/kitchen/foyer/left area. My bottom of the line Velodyne loads up that room like you wouldn't believe. I'm talking tight-punch-you-in-the-chest bass. I'm quite impressed.) I'm sure the SVS owners out there would dissagree, but I just lost my upgradits for a new sub.

5.1 HT is seamless as well.

I've calibrated quite a few times, but always followed the directions in the manual. I much prefer this method!

[heiney9]

:eek: I followed this guys calibration technique to the 'T' this evening after finally getting everything set up in my new media room, and WOW!!!! What a difference.

I had been complaining of a "mid bass bloat" (for lack of better articluation) since buying an ADCOM 555 and after calibrating the sound stage is absolutely amazing. You are enveloped with sound in 2-channel and bass is tight and precise, even through the velodyne. Vocals are amazing.

(on a different subject, this new room is in my basement with 1/3 the total room volume than my living room/dining room/kitchen/foyer/left area. My bottom of the line Velodyne loads up that room like you wouldn't believe. I'm talking tight-punch-you-in-the-chest bass. I'm quite impressed.) I'm sure the SVS owners out there would dissagree, but I just lost my upgradits for a new sub.

5.1 HT is seamless as well.

I've calibrated quite a few times, but always followed the directions in the manual. I much prefer this method!


So you got her dialed in :cool: . I'll PM you tomorrow about an after work "stop by and listen", also we need to coordinate a time for you to come over and hear the Lsi 9's as they are dialed in as good as they can get. Glad you were able to solve your set-up problems.

H9

[Lowell_M]

H9, Your PM box is full.

[jakelm]

How stable is this reciever @6 or 4ohms? My old Hk 330c handles 2ohms excellent, how does the newer models compare?

Jake

[AndyGwis]

What are you planning to run on it? I'm guessing it has the stones to push 6 and even 4 effectively, but I wouldn't risk it without reseaching and/or calling HK to make sure.

[jakelm]

I'm aquiring another pair of monitor 7's. Which when stacked would drop to 3ohms (6ohms a speaker). I'm my guess is that it will do just fine, I just wanted input if anyone is driving it at 4 or less ohms.

Jake

[jakelm]

My older Onkyo was rated for 6 and even 3ohms. Their "dynamic power" rating. Just wasnt quite sure about Hk.

[AndyGwis]

Yeah, I don't remember seeing any 4ohm specs, so you should probably call them or shoot HK an email just to be sure.

[jakelm]

Thanks Andy

[jakelm]

Ok I emailed them ..and this is the responce I got:

Jake,
Good afternoon. The AVR635, as with all of the HK receivers, are designed to work best with speakers having an 8 ohm impedance. This does not mean that they have not been tested at lower impedances. This means that the receivers will perform their best when the proper impedance is used. We do not have any specifications on how much power will be provided at these lower impedances, as we do not recommend that any other speakers be connected.


They do not recommend that any other speakers (becides 8ohm speakers) be connected. HMMMMM....A reciever with a MSRP for $1300 and I cant use speakers under 8 ohms? Lets see, that rulles out my vintage 7's, lsi9's, lsi7.etc... I was also hoping for wattage ratings at 6 and 4 ohms.

The reason I sound so uneasy is because in a previous email, they told me that if for some reason my reciever goes out because of running speakers with lower ohms than recommended, it would not be warrantied. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions too fast.

Any comments on how I should take this email responce?

Jake

[jakelm]

Even my $299 Onkyo had specs for 8, 6 and 3ohms.

Jake

[Ron Temple]

I doubt the receiver struggles with 6 ohm and even 4 ohm at reasonable levels...don't know about dropping to 3 ohm nominal and less. That's amp territory.

[jakelm]

He just emailed me back, I think I upset him. I didnt mean to do that. But he did explain that H/K will handle 4-8ohms. H/K just doesnt post the specs for the lower impedences. And wont cover the damage if you over drive it with lower ohms.

I'm just alittle dissapointed that H/K doesnt feel they need to post specs of lower ohms. The top 5 of Polk's line are 4ohm speakers. But for a (IMO) higher end reciever (like the 635), you cant get specs, if driving these speakers.

I guess self testing is the only way to go in this situation.

Jake

[Ron Temple]

I listened to a 330 driving some 4 ohm GR Research AV-2s for several hours at significant volume (2 channel/small/cut at 80hz w/sub and large w/o). It didn't raise a sweat. I think your safe running 4 ohms with the 635, but dipping below 3 driving 4 drivers, 4 PRs and a couple of tweets, would make me nervous.

[jakelm]

Well...with stacked 6ohm Polk M7's, I'll be at approx 3.4ohms. If something happends, you'll be the first to know. And I dont baby my electronics. Especially with movies.

Jake

[AndyGwis]

Yeah, let me know if they blow up the 635 or not. If so, I'll be sure not to run my Thiel's on 7Bs on then.

I'd guess it would be fine, though. The 635 boasts high current rating, and I would think it pushes a good 125-150 WPC into 4 ohms. . . just based on their conservative ratings, hearty power supply, and aforementioned current capability.

[jakelm]

Wow,,,I have been tinkering with this for days now. Sounds absolutly fantastic. One question. Is there any way to force EX or seven channel? I have "last" set in OSD. Watching a movie on cable, I put it on Pllx with surround back, but when I pause the movie or FF, it always switches to Pll ex-off. I was able, on my Onkyo, to force the surround back channel to be used no matter what. I remember it was an option. "Auto" or "on". But I cant figure out how to do this on my H/K. Everytime it swtches back I just press Dolby again and I'm back to "ex". Is there anyway around this?

Any ideas?

Jake

[AndyGwis]

If no one here responds with an answer, get on that AVS forum 635 thread and post it there. It may have already been covered somewhere in the 30+ page discussion, you can try to search for it.

[Ron Temple]

I think this was one of the "quirks" that the firmware update last year was supposed to address. PM M Code...I'm running 5.1 and my unit auto detects DD as the default going to DOLIIx for any 2 channel source. I can change this to Logic 7 and have done so, but I find it's just too much bother and leave it alone.

Now if I were running surround backs, it probably wouldn't work for me :D

[jakelm]

I did Ron... They cover only how to switch it from going back (default) to logic 7. Not how to keep it ex or 7 channel Pll.
But thanks..

Jake

Edit: Im sorry Andy I ment you. I did read the whole thread.

[jakelm]

Hey Ron.. you or someone might know....why doesnt DTS (Neo 6) work for optic or coaxal digital? Why only Pll or logic 7?
Also I dont know if its just me or is there way too much midbass in logic7? Sounds terrible. And Pll is too bright. I'm trying to find a happy medium.

Jake

[jakelm]

But it is frustrating having to keep hitting Dolby to get it back to Pllx 7 channel, after pausing or FF cable or DVD.

It doesnt change from Dobly or any setting I have, it just keeps turning my surround back channels off. And then I press Dolby again and Im right back with surround back on.

[jakelm]

Oh...and by the way....(I'm sorry I'm draging this thread on, I know you all must be tired of me)...but M Code has his Pm's off.

[jakelm]

Andy I need your help here..if you have a minute. I sent an email to H/K and I submited a post in avs forum, but you or someone might know.

I have noticed for a while now, that my vocals are muffled (remember me saying how I noticed alot of midbass?). Last night I took some time to try to fix this. I noticed when approching the front that I was getting vocal audio (100+hz) from my subs. I checked my setting : Front main 60hz, C,SL,SR,SBL,SBR @80hz. Sub 80hz set to 12". Subwoofer preout to amp via splitter. Amp to subs in correct phase. So everything is correct. I put in DVE disk and ran a Fr sweep for sub (18-140hz). I noticed something funny, so I broke out the ratshack meter. I found a +/-4dbs all the way up to 130hz, then sloped off. I did a reset and set all my speakers the same way except for the sub which I put it @60hz. I re-ran the EZEq again in manual mode. Ran the disk again and had the same data, a very audilble sweep up to approx 130hz. Then only higher than approx 130hz would the subs cool off.

Is there something I'm doing wrong? Its like the reciever is stuck in 120hz crossover mode.

Jake

[AndyGwis]

Man, no clue. I'm starting to think I need to go buy a spl meter and see if I have similar results. But, seems to my ears like all of my speakers do what they are set to do. . .

Is there a high frequency crossover on the sub you can set as well? You shouldn't have to, but maybe put it on 60 or 80 and do you avia/spl meter test.

Yeah, sounds like the HK isn't rolling off the sub when it should. . . maybe not rolling it off at all.

Try the subs crossover/rolloff and let me know.

[jakelm]

I have my Hafler amp driving these subs, so no crossover on the amp. But yes it does seem like the Hk is not rolling off the Fr at the right point. Its almost (like you said) not rolling it off at all. It doesnt matter what setting I have it on 60 or 80hz, I still get a smooth sweep all the way to 130hz and then after 130 the subs start to roll off. When set to 60hz, I should get little to no sound other than deep bass from the subs. I had this same set up with my older Onkyo 502, and no problems. I dont know.

Jake

[jakelm]

I recieved an email from HK last night:

Good evening and thanks for your inquiry. What you are experiencing is localization of the subwoofer even though the crossover is at the point where it should be omni directional in response mode. The crossover slope for the low pass filter in the AVR 635 is 12dB/oct so if your subwoofer is too close to you in distance it is certainly possible that there could be voices from the sub. As a suggestion, try moving the subs to both adjacent corners in the front of the room. This should change the localization and allow the subwoofers to blend seamlessly with your front L&R speakers.

I replyed say that my room is 20 x 16 with the mains, tv and subs along the 16' front stage wall. I sit about 15-17' from the front stage wall. The subs are in each a corner. I also mentioned that I am getting a db spike between 95 and 105hz. If my crossover was set to 60hz, I should not get any type of spike around that Fr. Right? Even with a slow 12dbs roll off, setting the crossover to 60hz, I should get no responce from my subs @ around 80-90hz, I am correct right?

I just want to make sure I'm understanding him correctly.

Jake

P.S Here is a diagram of my living room. I thought this was the best speaker placement.