Home Theater...its Not That Hard!!! [Archive]

Audioreality

07-29-2002, 12:58 AM

You've got to be kidding.
The concept of "home theater" is to try as closely as possible to put you in the action, just like the movie theaters.
Would you shell out the bucks to see a movie if it didn't immerse you in sound? Doubtfully.
It's a brave new world.
Full of cool new technology.
You should give it another chance.
It can be very hard to set up a proper theater in any given room within a residence. Many factors involving the rooms' characteristics come into play when implementing a home theater. You can't just expect to slap a system together using manufactures specs. and acheive a proper sound. It doesn't nessisarily work that way. So many people are turned of to HT simply for the fact they haven't heard one properly set up in a tuned room.
All of the people who have heard my HT claim it to better than the theaters. I believe it is.
If your happy with the sound of your system, then cool, go with it.
I personally run a 7.2 HT in a 10 x 15ft room.
It not only puts me there, I get lost in the sound.
But, to each their own.
I'm pushing for T.Holmin's 10.2 surround.
It should be here in the next few years after they have exhausted the marketing on the current available formats.
Above all enjoy you system.

F1nut

07-29-2002, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by Audioreality
You've got to be kidding.
The concept of "home theater" is to try as closely as possible to put you in the action, just like the movie theaters.
Would you shell out the bucks to see a movie if it didn't immerse you in sound? Doubtfully.

I understand the concept, it's just not real. I've been going to the movies for along time (before surround sound) and the sound is not the important aspect, it's the quality of the movie, the story line and the acting. That is what one should be immersed in. A "great sound track" will not make a bad movie into a good movie. I have never left a movie thinking, boy that surround sound really made that movie!!!

While I am open minded, new technology does not necessarily make it better!

RuSsMaN

07-29-2002, 07:05 AM

Agreed F1 and BDT.

mantis

07-29-2002, 07:20 AM

Listen up guys,

you need to learn the term HOME THEATER.

Remember awhile ago we talked about term tossing????This post is no different.

Enter the term and enter the understanding.

F1nut,
you opnion of how Home Theater sounds is noted.You also must be in your forties if youv'e been to the movies without surround sound.There has been surround sound in the theater's since as far back as I can remember.I'm 32.
Can you go there about this no surround sound in the theater and tell me the last movie you watched like this there?
Thats kind of cool if you got to experience movies way back then,Id like to hear your thoughts.

Audioreality,
good post and your points are very good.Welcome to the forum.

Russman,
thats it??????you just agree with your boy with no reason?
I thought you would have gone into some deeper detail here.

Just remember guys...Home Theater in it's simplest form is of follows...............

A TV
A video source.
A surround procesor(dolby surround)
3 channels of info...left...right...surround
3 to 4 speakers(if you wanted to argue only one rear it could be somewhat valued as it's only a matrixed mono anyway.

Whats not being understood here about home theater TroyD,Russman and Fnut??????????????

Todays speed is 7.1(6.1)........you can't do that with a stereo system.Just like you can't have stereo out of a mono clock radio

joe logston

07-29-2002, 07:57 AM

mantis, one thing the most important one, you forgot on your list. # 11 good movie, or music. that what it is all about.

hoosier21

07-29-2002, 08:09 AM

ZzzZzz

TroyD

07-29-2002, 09:06 AM

.....and this definition of HT would be found where?

Again, I respectfully reserve the right to disagree. HT can be as simple or as complicated as one chooses to make it and in the end, if you are happy with it, that is ALL that matters.

As far as the rest of it, if you are trying to bait me in to a pissing match, I'd rather not, thanks. The clock radio analogy is flawed obviously because there aren't 2 channels, duh. HT is different, it's subjective. Read the opening paragraph in the Polk HT guide, it says the essentially what I have said.

We disagree, enough said, let's move on.

BDT

TroyD

07-29-2002, 12:02 PM

I dunno, I'm going to throw this out there......

When I watch/listen to a movie, the sound is just gravy to be honest. I've never based my opinion of a movie on the soundtrack. I've always said that a crappy movie is a crappy movie and all the sound in the world doesn't make a difference.

Having said that, I don't expect any theater experience (IMAX, HT or the local Cineplex) to accurately recreate a particular sound experience. For example, my office is about 20 yards from the flightline. I listen to airplanes start, taxi, takeoff, land etc etc...every day. I've never experienced a sequence in a theater that made me say, 'WOW that was like the real thing'.

Maybe I am off base in my thinking here and this is quite possibly why I don't have the discerning standards for HT sound as others do. I'm not saying that I am right, but it is my opinion.

BDT

burdette

07-29-2002, 12:22 PM

I think each of us has our particular interest (or 2) that we take to the technological extreme. When I was in high school, I invested in a good stereo rather than my first beater car, because I was interested in and cared about audio. Other people were happy listening to a compact stereo and would never have thought to drop much money on audio. I spent more on my first 3-head, dual capstan cassette deck than most people spent on their entire sound system ("Dual what?")

Some guys spent a shit load on their car, painting it, getting this or that add-on, chrome this, fat tires.. for me it was a waste of money (so I didn't do it).

There are people who wouldn't even consider a home wood shop to be a "real" shop unless it sported a $4000 table saw and full vacuum system and $500 saw blades and this and that and the other thing. For others of us, our interest in wood shop, while real, just doesn't go that far. The technological extremists would look at my shop and laugh and mock me.. but it works for me to the level of my needs and interest.

I don't think audio or "home theater" is any different. There are those out there who have the interest (and obviously the means) to always be cutting edge. They had a CD player when the things were still $2000. Guys bought the first THX equipment because it was THERE... guys bought Pro Logic when it came out because it was THE thing. You name it, there are those who want it and can afford it, and those who don't care in the least, and those (like me), who are definitely interested and love the technology, but who can't buy new equipment each year or spend the big bucks all the time. I *still* have a better audio/video system than just about anyone I know, yet I know there are readers of this forum who would laugh at and mock my setup.

When I was in college, we ripped out the headphone jack on a 13" black and white TV and wired the signal into a Yamaha receiver... whoowhee, home theater.. mono, bad signal, but better than it had been. When I first hooked a VCR into my receiver, it was better than it had been. When I upgraded speakers, it was better than it had been. I kept investing up to the point that either
1) it wasn't better than it had been (i.e. topped out on a good cassette deck way before I reached the price limit) or
2) I couldn't afford to spend more.

There are guys here who no doubt spent more on speaker wire than I spent on my new DD receiver. I spent more on my receiver than some people would drop for anything audio. At this point in my life, my system sounds great to me and serves its purpose and is better than it had been. It is home theater to me because that is what we use it for.

Godspeed to you guys who want and can afford the best stuff out there. I'd enjoy that shopping trip, too. But you can take your mocking and stuff it in your subwoofer box.

I've got an electrical engineering degree.. so.. what now, should we discuss at what point you're throwing your money away on more expensive wiring???

HBombToo

07-29-2002, 12:33 PM

Burdette, I tried to do a cost analysis post a few moths ago but it was burried.

Oh Well, there you have it....

RuSsMaN

07-29-2002, 01:38 PM

So you posted your thoughts on HT minimums, mine would be any Hi-fi source (vcr), a color monitor, I'd say go at least 25", a stereo receiver or amp, and 2 speakers....

I agreed with the other members, why must that ALWAYS get your feathers ruffled?

-Russ

HBombToo

07-29-2002, 02:13 PM

TroyD,

I'll never forget visiting a friend in Tague, check spelling, South Korea and the Black Bird fired up. Damn!!!!! I thought there was an earth quake. There is no way in hell for any soundsystem to recreate that. What a truely awsome experience that was and Amazing Aircraft. The US has some really kickass technology! Your lucky to be apart of it.

jcaut

07-29-2002, 02:17 PM

Mantis,

I'm not trying to argue on this, 'cause I see your point. I really do. I just think trying to define a generic term like "home theater" is silly.

I note drastic differences in your first "definition" of home theater, versus your second, a few posts up.

Now maybe if you qualify the term with something like a DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 "home theater" or (you'll like this one) THX CERTIFIED home theater, THEN you might be able to define it. Otherwise, it's whatever you want it to be. At least that's the way I understand it. I hear a lot of people use the term "surround sound". What does that mean? My wife's aunt an uncle built a new house a few years ago and had it "wired" for surround sound. I was impressed until I found out that their definition of "surround sound" was basically an intercom with music capability and at least one speaker in every room. They're surrounded by sound, by golly.

Troy makes a good and very valid point about trying to produce live, accurate sound. You can try all you want, but you won't succeed. There's no way ANY sound system is going to accurately reproduce the sound of a jet taking off, an orchestra, rock concert, etc. Movies don't sound like the real thing, 'cause they're not the real thing. If it sounds close enough to draw you into the action, then that's all that counts. And sometimes, if the story is good, it doesn't take an impressive list of equipment to accomplish that.

That's it for me--
Jason

TroyD

07-29-2002, 03:02 PM

HBomb.....

Yeah, the U2 is something EVERYONE should hear. THAT is impressive. Only bad thing is those bastards used to take off in the middle of the night and you can hear that thing for miles.

BDT

HBombToo

07-29-2002, 03:22 PM

Over Memorial Day the damn Stealth Bomber flew right over my house and I thought I was going sheee-iiiit.... My little girl started crying and the wife was running around with the sony camcorder. "Funny and impressive Stuff". It could have only been 1K in the air and damn is that a big sucker! I would not want to be on the receiving end of that.

scottvamp

07-29-2002, 03:22 PM

All I know is that in my years in HT i have achieved what I wanted. I have better sound and video quality than any theater I have been in. Ht has way surpassed the movie theater and WILL continue. HD DVD is less than a year away and I can't what. 6.1 -- got'a love it. Music is also very enjoyable. I have landed.:D

joe logston

07-29-2002, 06:39 PM

that with me to scottvamp, im totaly happy with my system to,i think that the only stuff i mite get is a wide screen rear projection tv. and a malti-dvd viedio audio player, and mybe lsi-9 speakers, but if i dont its no big deal.

Ron-P

07-29-2002, 06:47 PM

HT is all about the movie, in it's OAR of course. That's it. I am just displaying that movie using the best technology I can afford.

Peace Out~:D

mantis

07-29-2002, 09:51 PM

FOR ALL ON THIS POST POSTING............................
What is it you don't understand about Home Theater??????????

Think about it.......
What is it?
If you read my first post then my second post of Home Theater.....One describes todays standards for home theater and the other was Dolby surround.

Why and where does defending your personal systems come into play?I never bashed commented on anyones system.

But the fact is,
If you have a 2 channel stereo wired up with a video source....IT'S NOT HOME THEATER.....PERIOD.
Call it what you want...old school, better fidelity for a vcr,good tv speakers ,but it's not a home theater system.

Simply put home theater audio is fronts and rear channels.
Today there are more channels of information......despite if they are REAL or not..........Is 2 channel REAL??????

Thats doesn't matter one bit.
I don't care you work in an office listening to things outside and realise your system can't make it sound real.........does yoiur 2 channel system sound exactly like the band is there in your room?????????Of course not......

What I don't understand is why this post has to get clowned like that.A clock radio is a clock radio no matter how good or bad it sounds........it still plays music right????If I was totally into my clock radio you would have ripped my system/radio apart.....PEOPLE!!!!!!

WHAT YOUR DOING IS NOT HOME THEATER.

TroyD

07-29-2002, 10:02 PM

Says who? Where is this HT standard printed?

Again, I say read the introduction to the Polk HT Handbook and it will say pretty much what we have been saying.

Christ, is it OK if someone doesn't agree with you?

BDT

jcaut

07-29-2002, 10:03 PM

The point was that the thread was "clowned" from the beginning. Trying to define home theater for us is silly. I really don't care how it's defined....

I just don't see the point. Were there people on here wondering if there system was a proper "home theater"? I wasn't aware of it, if there were. I think the topic of the thread was INTENDED stir things up, and I just don't get it.

But there's a lot of things I don't get....:p

mantis

07-29-2002, 10:49 PM

the real question is it ok for someone to dissagree with you?

mantis

07-29-2002, 10:59 PM

You know TroyD,
you call Liv4fam manuals but It seems thats all you quote.Is that as far as you got in the handbook?
By the way you don't even bother to answer any of my questions dude........thats fine.

Having an enternainment system is perfectly fine.Home Theater doesn't have a definition???????Whatever.

So would someone please stand up and give what is Home Theater????EVERYONES WELCOME TO SPEAK!!!!

liv4fam

07-29-2002, 11:06 PM

What is a home theater?

A home theater is an audio/video playback system that approximates in your home the experience of seeing—and hearing—a film in a cinema. Setting up a home theater can be as simple as adding a compact surround sound system to the TV set in your family room, or as complex as building a dedicated viewing room equipped with elaborate built-in speakers, massive amplifiers, and a big-screen front-projection TV system
Here is a definition of Home Theater. Troy it says and I quote "adding a compact surround sound system" surroud is not two-channel therefore it is not Home Theater. Do not confuse people in the post to thinking that two speakers is Home Theater just so you can disagree with Mantis. Excerpt from Dolby Labs.

liv4fam

07-29-2002, 11:09 PM

Surround sound makes the difference

Surround sound, which is what turns conventional TV viewing into home theater, originates from program material such as DVDs that have multichannel soundtracks. The multiple channels are reproduced by three speakers across the front of the viewing area, and surround speakers to either side (Figure 1). The result is sound that transports you into the world of you're watching; you feel less like a passive viewer and more like an active participant.

jcaut

07-29-2002, 11:13 PM

...

mantis

07-29-2002, 11:18 PM

At least someone in here understands what Home theater is....

F1nut

07-30-2002, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by liv4fam
The result is sound that transports you into the world of you're watching; you feel less like a passive viewer and more like an active participant.

If it's got good acting and a good story you don't need surround sound to transport you anywhere, 'cause you're already there!

F1nut

07-30-2002, 12:50 AM

oops!

RuSsMaN

07-30-2002, 12:51 AM

Nice civil post liv4fam, and I see you quote Dolby labs, good on ya, way to get your quote on.

Are we talking surround sound, or home theater? I thought we were defining HT? Who has the (copy)right to define what HT is and isn't? I won't argue your point on 'surround sound', but you made no valid points as to why a 2ch, 1ch, 2.1ch, etc etc cannot be deemed home theater.

Cheers,
Russ

F1nut

07-30-2002, 01:04 AM

mantis,

Yes, I am in my forties and I hate to disappoint you, but I have no idea when it was that I last saw a movie in just stereo. This I do remember, theaters only had one BIG screen, the popcorn tastes the same and copping a feel of my girlfriends ski slopes mattered the most. I also remember that going to the movies was to be immersed in the film and not the sound system.
I think burdette made some good points...it boils down to what is important to the individual and individuals have different ideas on what constitutes HT. Look at all the different formats the various companies use today...even they can't agree on what constitutes HT.

F1nut

07-30-2002, 01:06 AM

burdette,

I've still got my 3-head dual capstan cassette deck around here somewhere and you're right they were not cheap. Do you still use yours?

TroyD

07-30-2002, 06:22 AM

For about the 10th effin' time......WE DISAGREE. Is that OK?

I just don't see WHY HT has to include surround. If you guys think so, GREAT!

What is the big frigging deal about what is HT and what is not?

Now, note that I've not said ONE insulting word or anything like that in this post. I am merely expressing an opinion.

BDT

mantis

07-30-2002, 07:24 AM

mantis

07-30-2002, 07:34 AM

TroyD,
any reason your all twisted up about a super simple thing like Home theater?

I also see you argue that Home Theater doesn't need surround.

Wanna play nice???????????

HOME THEATER SYSTEM
A collection of audio and video componets designed and configured to reproduce the picture and sound that would be experienced from a movie in a Movie Theater.A home Theater is generally expected to include a TV screen of reasonable size and a SURROUND SOUND audio system.

Thats it BDT.........so why is it so hard for you to understand.
You can have your own opnion of what Home Theater is...YOUR WRONG....but your intitled to.

F1nut,
what you describe is the liking of a movie experience.You seem not to enjoy Surround sound......which makes up for 50% of the movie experience.You didn't dissapoint me,I think it's very cool you got to experience movies that way back then......

The point what people think or want to think what Home Theater is anyones right to do so.......but this type of thinking is very miss leading......If home theater can be achived with just a 2 channel stereo system,then why the hell you we need to buy rear speakers, a center channel,a subwoofer?????

TroyD,
you just love to quote Polk........should I make a call to customer service and complain about them saying THE CENTER CHANNEL IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SPEAKER???
Since your into quoting and live you life by it..I will come to your level of thinking and retort.................

QUOTE FROM POLK AUDIO.........
The centerl channel speaker is a criticial component of a HOME THEATER system.TYPICIALLY,over 50% of the INFORMATION in a MOVIE SOUNDTRACK is directed to the CENTER CHANNEL speaker.To get exceptional HOME THEATER PERFORMANCE,your CENTER CHANNEL SPEAKER need to have the SAME SONIC CHARACTER,and play as loud as the MAIN SPEAKERS.The better your left and right speakers,the better the center speaker should be.
Well TroyD...that tells me I need at least 3 speakers to do Home Theater........would you argue there point?Or is that a marketing hype line to sell speakers and SUCKER people into buying a center channel?

Answer me this....why in the Polk catalogs,ALL of there HOME THEATER SPEAKER PACKAGES, include surround speakers???ARE they WRONG FOR INCLUDING THEM?I don't see a package that doesn't include surrounds...like a TroyD package designed and signed by TROYD himself.
Now are you going to answer my questions or are my questions not important for you?
4 the effin 11th time is it ok to dissagree with you???

TroyD

07-30-2002, 07:42 AM

Dan,

For the last time, I'm not arguing with you. I have a difference of viewpoint on what the minimum standards for HT are, nothing more.

For those that are interested on how I base my opinion, go to page 2 of the Polk Audio HT guide and read the first paragraph. That philosophy pretty much mirrors my own.

If you believe that HT must include surround, that's cool. Different opinions are what makes the world go around.

BDT

TroyD

07-30-2002, 07:54 AM

I'm not sure what questions you are talking about though.....Do I think that what I describe as minimums in an HT setup qualify as a surround sound setup? Obviously not. For surround minimums, I would define that as requiring front and rear channels. There are variations of this dating back more than 30 years actually.

I just don't happen to buy that HT must include surround sound. However, if I am in the minority, big deal. I just think it is a right or wrong question, I think it is an opinion question.

Would I agree that in a surround sound system that the center channel is the most important? Sure, I could go along with that.

What were the other questions?

Troy

nascarmann

07-30-2002, 08:32 AM

A home Theater is generally expected to include a TV screen of reasonable size and a SURROUND SOUND audio system.

Ya know......I really don't care either way but....the quote you gave does say "generally expected to include"....nothing there that says "must have".....just my $4.56 worth:D

hoosier21

07-30-2002, 09:14 AM

Mantis

You start a thread (as if anyone asked) that lists what you need for a Home Theater and ask "ANY ARGUEMENTS?????" Were you asking for this pissing match? People have posted their thoughts and you lash out and have this little fit towards anyone who has a different opinion. Personally I don’t give a s%*# how YOU, Tweeter, Dolby, liv4fam or THX have defined as a minimum for Home Theater, it is just an opinion, therefore EVERYBODY’s opinion here is correct, at least to them. You have the right to tactfully disagree, but you have no right to state that the opposing opinion is wrong.

I am sick a tired of your juvenile behavior, over and over you have taunted members into these little battle of wits trying to prove your superior knowledge and wisdom, guess what, NOBODY REALLY GIVES A SHIT. How old are you? Maybe I am reading your responses wrong, but you seem very immature.

It would be nice to have someone in your profession on here to help others, give advise, offer first hand experience, but the way you present yourself and your attitude is not very welcome here.

Mantis, I am sorry to lower this to a personal level but this has gone on since you arrived and I am sick of it

hoosier21

07-30-2002, 09:20 AM

If you must have ALL the speakers, subwoofers, amps and such to have a Home Theater, why does every processor give the option(s) to set up your rig with or without all speakers except the front two?

Center: yes or no
Surrounds: yes or no
Subwoofer: yes or no

This would almost suggest that the front two channels are the minimum speakers that are required to experience Home Theater.

nascarmann

07-30-2002, 09:24 AM

This would almost suggest that the front two channels are the minimum speakers that are required to experience Home Theater.

Yes Sir hoosier21....yes...http://members.aol.com/nightdog35/images/smiley_beertoast.gif

RuSsMaN

07-30-2002, 10:11 AM

Nice words hoosier....

Dan constantly makes himself look like a one-legged man at an ass-kicking contest, and he doesn't even realize it....

I think the 'problem' here lies much, much deeper. Maybe even going back to childhood, a need to feel accepted, and wanted. Maybe even just plain useful. Perhaps self-esteem is hoovering near zero, I just don't get it man, but I almost feel sorry for the dude sometimes.

Cheers,
Russ

TroyD

07-30-2002, 11:48 AM

I dunno, I'm just whipped by the whole thing and quite frankly, I'm tired of posting my opinions and getting flogged for it. I've always said that I enjoy debate and so forth but this shit is getting pretty old.

To be honest, I thought Dan and I had called a cease fire and in my mind, I've kept up my end and would ask the same consideration in return.

Troy

HBombToo

07-30-2002, 12:23 PM

There are many evenings I may find an older program in which the audio does not sound correct from Dolby Pro or even Logic 7 and I switch to Stereo on my h/k...

I would have to say that to enjoy HT in this case, a 2 channel settup is better than all the additional channels. Sometimes the sophistication of the HT equipment can become a impedement to the overall listening experience.

With that being said... At the very minimum, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, 2 separate channels even if mono can really enhance our experience.

Does anybody watch the old reruns of the Twilite Zone??? Perfect example of what I'm talking about. I Luv that Show!

HBomb

TroyD

07-30-2002, 12:28 PM

HBomb,

I know ED ZACHRY what you mean. I'd even go so far as to say that my favorite movies have nothing to do with good sound...

Casablanca
Magnificent Seven
North By NorthWest
Rear Window

great movies in a non-surround environment....

BDT

burdette

07-30-2002, 01:05 PM

Lets go about this pragmatically....

There are items on your list that are indeed requirements if one wants a home theater, even by the broadest definition presented here (source, monitor of some sort). Many of the things on your list are personal opinion and fall far short of being a requirement. They are merely opinions on how to improve the home theater, but not guidelines *for* home theater. Your assertions smack of snobbery.. but that is all right as long as you recognize them as such rather than putting them forth as fact.

(By the way, F1nut, I still have two 3-head, dual capstan cassette decks... and I do use them occasionally. I still have a cassette player in one car and still have other cassette devices around like the walkman I use when I run.)

_______________________________________
Check it out,
all you need for home theater is of the follows.

1)5 channels of EQUAL AND SAME BRAND amps

Dolby would disagree, given that they consider Pro Logic (4 channels) to be home theater. Five channels may be the latest tread, but "home theater" existed before five channels. There are a multitude of movies that aren't in 5.1, just as there will be a shitload of DVDs that aren't 6.1 or 7.1 or whatever once that becomes the 'norm.'

Equal and same brand amps is opinion. It might matter in certain listening situations, but in plenty of instances, you nor anyone could tell by ear whether the amps were of equal power or the same brand.

2)MATCHING preamp(a surround receiver would replace steps one and 2)

"Matching" is an opinion.

3)5 of the SAME brand speakers from the SAME line...all MATCHING.

Again, "Same" is opinion. You might prefer having the same brand, perhaps the same line, but it is not a requirement to create a home theater. Plenty of actual theaters do not use speakers from the same brand, especially those that have been around awhile. They probably have one fucking huge Altec Lansing behind the screen, potentially different brand off to either side (good chance its JBL), and potentially a third brand hanging off the theater walls.

4)a subwoofer.

Depends on how you define "subwoofer." You don't *need* a separate subwoofer if your front speakers reproduce the entire LFE signal. All you need is the ability to reproduce the lowest audio signals present on your video source.

5)MATCHING front 3 wire ,better if all wire is the same length.Good quality rear wire if equal length even better.All nessary interconnects to wire it up.

Pure opinion and to some extent, speculation. I understand some people would fight to the death on the subject of wiring... double-blind (triple-blind?) evaluations have shown the limitations of 'improved' wiring. Variations in speaker response could easily wipe out any electronically-measurable differences. Regardless, it is by no means a requirement for home theater nor even two channel audio.

6)A source or sources.

Agreed. You have to have SOMETHING to watch and listen to.

7)a monitor of some sort.

Agreed. You have to be able to see the image.

8)A room to put all this in

Agreed.

9)Surge protection(at least enough outlets to plug everything into).

The ability to plug everything in is sort of a no brainer. You might as well say "a house that is wired for electricity."

10)a place to sit,something to drink and snack on and away you go.And maybe someone to cuttle up with.

You do need a place to sit. Everything else is opinion.

nascarmann

07-30-2002, 01:14 PM

The ability to plug everything in is sort of a no brainer. You might as well say "a house that is wired for electricity."

:lol: That is way too good... :lol:

HBombToo

07-30-2002, 01:16 PM

My point exactly TroyD...

burdette, we have to stop for a beer if your somewhere around Columbia/Jeff City. I either go to the Turtle 2 off of AC or the Turtle Club in Ashland but I really have no preference. Just like to drink a few cold 1's!!!!

jdelan

07-30-2002, 01:24 PM

Where are the Theater Seats?
The Curtain?
The Sticky Floors?

TroyD

07-30-2002, 01:26 PM

HBomb....

Am I not invited??

BDT

nascarmann

07-30-2002, 01:27 PM

Hey.....I'd like to poor down some cold ones too.....

HBombToo

07-30-2002, 01:33 PM

That would be great!!!

TroyD, Hijack 1 of those fancy fighters you see from your office, fly up to Tennesse and grab Nascarmann and I'll pick you guys up @ the Columbia Airport in MO. I would imagine that we could be knee deap in Beer by 3PM Central.

Sounds like fun to the HBomb.......

nascarmann

07-30-2002, 01:41 PM

Yeah BDT.....I'll meet you at Tri-Cities airport.....:D

TroyD

07-30-2002, 01:45 PM

Even BETTER would be if we could get G-Diddy Grand to pick us up in one of his NIFTY KC-135's......

All seriousness though, any of you mofos come through Charleston SC and DON'T drop in, my feelings will be hurt.

BDT

hoosier21

07-30-2002, 02:11 PM

Troy

I had a co-worker bring me some Palmetto, 3 versions, good stuff.

TroyD

07-30-2002, 03:45 PM

hoosier21,

When I get to GA, I can hook you up with some. How far are you from Canton?

BDT

mantis

07-30-2002, 06:40 PM

First of all this post was not intended for a pissing match,rather it started out pretty cool untill TroyD posted his as usual disagreeable post.Then it was all down hill from there.

TroyD,
I know we said our truce in the past,correct me if I'm wrong,butI really seems like you go out of your way just 2 dissagree with me for whatever your reasons are...You find a way to bring up the past and never let anything go.
You always want me to cool my guns but its ok when I'm on the receiving end of anything.Gee I can't disagee with anything you say.I have my opnions and facts like anyone else in here and have the right to them,just as you ask to have the right to yours.
As you know I'm sure you do,I have a deep passion for all audio and video formats.I have owned just about all of them at one time or another.It's my life and my livlihood.I argue points because I actually care about this stuff....alot.I like this forum but it gets out of hand...just like this post is doing.

Hoosier,
Whats my deal????Not with you bud.But stating AS IF ANYONE ASKED is plan cold bro........Do I need your personal permission to post around here or ask If I can make a post????On this post I haven't lashed out at anyone including you!!!TroyD and i argue all the time....Its like we can't agree on anything......not your beef.
And YES your reading my posts wrong.....I have read in here people defending there systems,I'm not saying your system sucks or anyone else for that matter......As other people can say "you can't call it that"why is it when I say "you can't call it something"I'm the straight out ass?You ask and state it would be nice if a personal of professional level would help out people and offer good advice in here.........here I am...all ego aside....I try to offer as much help to all people in here.If you would just take the time to read some of my posts, you'll see what I'm talking about.Most of the time when I'm tring to help out people...TroyD and Russman will come on that post and start talking smack.Joking or not it pisses me off.
You also said "since I have arrived this is all I do is talk shit....I have been here longer then just about all member's left in here.This forum wasn't always like this,there was guys who came threw here talking smack ,like a guy named Snake....he made me quit this post for a very long time.There was alot of good guys in herre and still are some.I have no beef with you but if you have with me....address me personally and I will work it out.
Dmantis20@aol.com..........ok??

Russman,
that was about the biggest ASSHOLE post I think you ever wrote.You offended me with that bullshit and I will deal with you on a personal level over I"M dude.....I try my verybest to swallow your crude humor but guess what man....I'm not laughing.

Burdette,
Listen up man,
Snobby I am not.....I never push around how much money I make you say thing like my system is better then your's or any other SNOBBY things like that........This post is not snobby.maybe to you it is then address that clearly and we can work it out......I'm very easy going.

BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER REMAINS ABOUT HOME THEATER!!!

Now if you want to experience Dolby Digital 5.1...what do you need?
What about DTS5.1???
And Dolby surround????
Surround sound is one key factor to mae up a home theater.
I'm not going to argue what you think is home theater......have it your way..it's your room to listen....but if you cannot replay the nessary channel on a given recording,your not using a home theater system.
This topic could have been discussed in a civil manner but in here MOST of you can't talk about it,just face f&*k me about what and how I feel about it.

TroyD

07-30-2002, 07:28 PM

Dan,

Point out to me, where, in this post or any other for the last couple weeks or so where I have said anything personal about you. I have kept my word. Go ahead and get your quote on.

I think that maybe subconciously, you are stewing over the biwiring post that Aaron started. If memory serves, I only posted a couple times in that thread and I don't believe any of those were directed at you. However, the fact remains that biwiring and HT are two totally different terms. Biwiring is an empirical fact. HT is not. It is apples and oranges.

All my mosts have been my honest opinions. I don't feel that surround is a required part of HT. If you do, as I stated before, you are more than welcome to that opinion. I never said your opinion is wrong, I just don't agree. However one opinion is not any more valid than another. For crying out loud this isn't some competition as to who is right. Who REALLY gives a shit? I don't and it would seem most of the others don't either.

As for the rest of it, whatever. I've said over and over that I don't care to participate in a pisssing contest. That does not mean that I won't state and logically support my opinions.

I will only add that it would seem that the forum in general is getting pretty tired of this as well.

Let's move on here.

Troy

scottvamp

07-30-2002, 07:56 PM

mantis- I agree with you on an even higher level. But it really doesn't matter- I get pissed on alot myself.
I am VERY passionate about HT.
The simple deff. of HT is "Replicating the Movie Theater experience in your home." This means large moniter/screen and full range sound. These people that are paying $8.00 a person every weekend are paying for the huge screen and the "awesome surround sound experience". George Lucas says
"sound is 50% of a movie" and I totally agree with that. No I don't worship Lucas and I don't think that THX is realivent to equipment.
If it's got good acting and a good story you don't need surround sound to transport you anywhere, 'cause you're already there!
Ohhh please tell me your joking. If this were true why don't you listen to movies on a mono clock radio like in the 30/40's. And a 19" bl/wh tv with a $60 Classic DVD player does not even close to a HT. Jurassic Park with a 3 1/2" T-Rex with the thundering growl of a field mouse. Think about it. It's the way I feel about it. At what point does a A/V system become HT --- maybe just maybe when the site and sound of your local movie theater just doesn't compare to your own home theater experience. I created this for myself about a year ago and I can't what for my next movie. Witch is in about 2 hours :D

scottvamp

07-30-2002, 08:15 PM

I command that all this maddness STOP. Heee! Haaaa!
SSsshhhhhhhh*****What is so funny is when I speak on a thread it totally dies out.
Even one's like this that are getting several hits an hour.******Ssssshhhhhh
THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ HAS SPOKEN!!!!!!!!!:D

TroyD

07-30-2002, 08:24 PM

Scott,

I seen the shit you buy on ebay....I'm staying FAR away from your Crazy Train there OZ :D

But I do know that you Love a Rainy Night.....

BDT

scottvamp

07-30-2002, 08:28 PM

Dam it TroyD, keep that stuff on the down lo!:lol:

LiquidSound

07-30-2002, 08:48 PM

I'm by no means an experienced audiophile with several systems under my belt. But when I think of a theater, I think of the current style of theaters..and not a single one "that I know of" has sound only coming from the front of the theater. It's like saying I own a sports car...but my car hasn't been called that since the fifties. And the person I told this to is picturing a sleek, newer model because that's the currentl style..then when he's underwhelmed at my clunker or says "that's not a sports car" I get pissed at him. *no I don't own a vintage sports car*
*MY* definition of a home theater is the attempt to recreate a theater-like experience at home. That means you have surround sound..just like probably every theater today has. *MY* definition of a television with anything other than surround sound speakers is an Entertainment Center/System. And I don't care how good the acting/plot/dialogue/script is...home theater sound ENHANCES it. Which is the whole fucking purpose of buying a good system anyway..isn't it?

scottvamp

07-30-2002, 09:01 PM

Right on Liquidsound- I have watched some movies that were just O.K. but with the big screen and great sound surrounding me - it was a great movie. I am a big horror buff and I have never seen anybody jump out of there seat with there hearts going a mile a minute with a 3 watt "small" tv. If you just want good acting and a boring plot go watch a play. :rolleyes:

LiquidSound

07-30-2002, 09:31 PM

Scottvamp, you've got a sweet setup there chief. Where did you land that slew of dolby digital stuff? Has the theater you looted it from noticed it missing yet?
Ahh....so THAT'S what a 1200 looks like. *envy*

RuSsMaN

07-30-2002, 10:37 PM

Dan, I apologize, personal attacks are not cool, and if that is what I did, my bad, I mean that. However, I still don't understand the behavior you exhibit.

Your rant above states you only want to express your opinion, yet, at the end, you state said beliefs as fact, and get angry when others express nothing more than their opinion.

It's a 2 way street brotha. Just because my opinion doesn't mate with yours, doesn't mean I am holding a personal vendetta. It's just an opinion.

Snobbery? Money? You contantly feel a need to remind us that you are a 'professional', and that you make 'good money' at what you do. I hate to say it, but I seriously doubt, even though you can claim to work 'in the industry', that you have any more real exposure, or resources than I, or any another common man here has.

I actually do respect your opinion, but you rarely present it as that, you present it as fact, as if you are waiting for all of us to ohh and ahh and your words of wisdom. I don't know, do what you do for 30 years, and maybe it will happen.

I do know you have something to offer, but as we have spoken before, in private, its the delivery that kills.

Anyway, I guess we may never see everything eye to eye, honestly, I don't expect us too. I'm wheels-off drunk, and this post is giving me major tired-head.....I'm gonna go jam some Eddie Rabbit LP's....

'Ohhhhh, I'm driving my life away....looking for a better way.....forrrrrrr meeeee'

Cheers,
Russ

HBombToo

07-30-2002, 10:41 PM

You go Russ.., the HBomb is trashed with ya and Pouring a Rum now.

Its all cool if you want my opinion. Thank God for vendors!

mantis

07-30-2002, 11:20 PM

scottvamp,
I do stand my ground on what I say.Thanks for the support,and well better put we see Home theater closer to the same then other's in here.
I don't buy the 2 channel system is Home Theater,2 me it's not an as a todays industry standard it's not.I don't like pissing matches and would like to talk about it instead of fighting about it.

Look TroyD,
I respect your opnion as well,as outlandis as I think it is sometimes...I still respect it.Trust me when I tell you,I have been giving Quiting this post agin for sometime,even since the last big Online TuffGuy Brawl.
I'm not going to get my quote on as I want this fued between you and I to end right here and now.I think we can post civil, if we just try not to kick one another.

Liquidsound,
your points are also noted.Home Theater as it is marketed today is what it is.I didn't make the rules but I love it..all of it.

Russman,
I respect it and except it.
But I have talked to you enough off this post for you 2 know I'm not a snob, nor do I have any Intentions of rubbing what I do for a living in anyones face.And as far as money is conserned...I only posted that liv4fam and myself get paid verywell only because YOU and troyD posted that it's not rocket science to do our jobs....Thats a personal attack and you guys did it alot.In many differnt posts..more you then Troy but there.These no need for it.
The money thing I never said what I make and it's nobodies bussiness but my own.
Brother you can dought me all you want.But the truth/fact is I am a factory trained Professional Installer and Programmer.I get trained on things you haven't seen because there not in the public eye.This is not intended to rub it in or anything,but you insult me in the same post that your apologize in.I do this shit everyday.I have installed thousands of systems.One of my systems has been on MTV cribs........Patty Lebelle's house,Liv4fam and I did her house when we worked for Soundex.She is a very nice lady the little I spoke with her.I don't claim to work in the industry ...I do Mofo.......I do see how you can say I don't get more exposure then people that don't work in this industry.I install it everyday 2 to 3 systems a day or 1 to 2 weeks depending on the complexity of the job.
The last thing I want is OHH's and Haa's over what I post.I can help people with alot of things.So can most of all of you can.You guys even made jokes about the Great Book that Mantis wrote..I laughed and went along with it,but it was an insult.
Russ you bring that up all the time,I don't psot that way anymore if I ever did,I'm also sorry....I do have poor delivery but I try.I believe alot of what I post is fact.....shit dude I have done all of it,I never ever post spec's or what I have read........I experience it.........Ihave read the spec's,I have done tons of research......I think experience is what I have to offer anyone who wants my help.
All of you at one time or another have taught me a thing or 2....just because I'm a Professional,Doesnt' make me the be all end all and I don't want ANYONE to feel that way...Including you Russ.
So Lets put this to rest once and foreall.The past is the past.........I will try to forget all the dickhead things that where posted to me and I hope If I offended anyone in the past ,You can forget as well.

TONIGHTS A NEW NIGHT..........Lorenna Mckennitt is playing on my rt35i's and I love it...........Peace to all!!!!!
Dan

scottvamp

07-31-2002, 12:58 AM

Scottvamp, you've got a sweet setup there chief. Where did you land that slew of dolby digital stuff? Has the theater you looted it from noticed it missing yet?

Liquidsound - thanks for the kind words. Much of my income went into it. But it is alot of fun. Now I have two rows of couches in it and the rear couch is elevated about a foot higher than the front and that is where I like to set. I need to send some new pics for the showcase. Just got done watching Resident Evil and the sound/picture quality of new DVD's keeps impressing me more and more. The surround effects keep getting stronger and more defined. Makes having a 6.1 setup much more apreciated.
Got all of my DTS and Dolby Digital stuff from the wed sites stores.
DTS.com and DolbyDigital.com

Ahh....so THAT'S what a 1200 looks like. *envy*

Were u eyeing my sexy bitch:D

F1nut

07-31-2002, 01:37 AM

scottvamp, LiquidSound, mantis, etc.

A long, long time ago before George Lucas decided to bless you with his idea that "sound is 50% of a movie" people use to watch silent films. By all accounts I've heard, the people filled the theaters and enjoyed the films. Then, "talkies" came along and people filled the theaters and enjoyed the films. Then, stereo came along and people filled the theaters and enjoyed the films.
My point, once again, is that it's the film and not the sound that gets people out to the theater.
If you think Jurassic Park could stand on it's own without ALOT of help from it's sound track, then you don't know what a good movie is about. Godzilla was a 3 1/2" image on mono TV once and it scared the shit out of alot of people. Now, I'm not saying it was a good movie, just trying to make a point.
So, today we have movies made around special effects and a 5.1 sound track so that Hollywood can put out lousy movies that lots of people think are great, because.....Oh, wow did you hear that!?! Give me a break!
Now, the opposite is true if you go to a live music performance. Sure, it's cool to see the lights and stage set, but does that stuff make the music sound better...I think not. In this case it is all about the sound!!!
I'm not knocking those that believe HT is the reason to live, I'm blaming your teachers who failed to get you to think outside the box....LOL, that's a joke son!

RuSsMaN

07-31-2002, 08:01 AM

blah blah blah blah, I'm done with this post......

Frank Z

07-31-2002, 08:09 AM

My $.02

HT is HT. Many years ago we were all in the Dark Ages and watched movies in mono, then came stereo and of course multi-channel surround sound Bliss. Just as movie theaters evolved, our definitions of Home Theater have also evolved. I think that your very own personal idea of what a HT should be comprised of is as close to the correct definition as anyone can provide.

But maybe the best way to look at this is to realize that for the majority of the people out there today the idea is to repeat the Movie Theater experience in there own home. For most (not ALL) this means OAR, multi-channel surround and as big a picture as they can afford or cram into a given space.

Lets remember that there are still a FEW theaters out there that do not have more than 2 speakers. They are still theaters, just not as modern as most. Regardless of what your own definition of an HT may be, I think that MOST people would agree that Home Theater is all about recreating the Modern Cinema in your own home.

HT is HT. Mine has X amount of speakers, yours has Y amount of speakers. Which is a true HT? Both!

nascarmann

07-31-2002, 08:59 AM

HT is HT. Mine has X amount of speakers, yours has Y amount of speakers. Which is a true HT? Both!

Period......THE END:D

cgravil

07-31-2002, 04:27 PM

I'm gonna say my 4.5cents on this. HT started out to me as hooking up my vcr to my stereo. then came the bookself mini-hi-fi<dolby pro with 2 aux inputs!!!>Then my Sony, that had 5.1 inputs. My RCA was next, man it was Dolby Digital<no DTS> and finally my 6.1/7.1 setup with Harmon Kardon.

now I will personally have words<even you mantis whom I greatly respect> if you argue that at any point and time that I didn't have HT. because I thought I did.

HT is all perspective, so are cars, so are women, so is food, and ever beer for that matter.
so drink up have one on me, http://www.camelhigh.com/phpBB/images/smiles/beer.gif
and remember... Its all fun and games till some one puts an eye out. then the fun really begins

LiquidSound

07-31-2002, 05:31 PM

"My point, once again, is that it's the film and not the sound that gets people out to the theater."-F1Nut
You forgot commercials, word of mouth, and fancy movie posters. And it's usually a car that gets them there.. *an attempt at light hearted humor*smiles*

Ok, never once did I say *the film is shit, sound is king* The film is the central focus of the experience. The sound is just a peripheral enhancement...but a rather important one. Don't believe me? Sink about 30 grand in a theater and don't buy a sound system...only use subtitles. Tell people it conforms to YOUR standards as a theater...see how long it floats. Or, produce a yugo with racing stripes and call it a sports car. To someone with a skateboard, it will work just fine as a 'sports car'. Until they see the other, current sports cars out there and realize they're driving a three cylinder toaster.
If you wanna call a 2 channel system a "theater" then I'll call the wheel a "masterful exhibit of human technology and ingenuity"....because it was..at one point in time. My point is, you can't use a modern term for something that isn't up to date. At one time a 56k connection was considered "speedy" and "top of the line" can you call it that today???

scottvamp

07-31-2002, 07:46 PM

Nice Liquidsound very nice.
A long, long time ago before George Lucas decided to bless you with his idea that "sound is 50% of a movie" people use to watch silent films.
Long ago we used to think the world was flat- and - Hometheater was not a household word. Times change and so does technology. DVD*Dolby Digital*5.1*Surround Sound*big screen*
These are pretty standard terms in hometheater.
Tires*Steering Wheel*Engine*Windshield*
There are pretty standard terms for a automobile.

ORGINAL PHILCO PREDICTA
UG-4730 Continental known as the
"Danish Modern"
Identified by four fin shaped legs.
This set features a 21 inch view screen
and a Mahogany finish.

LiquidSound

07-31-2002, 08:22 PM

"Then, "talkies" came along"-F1Nut
Is that a cousin to the "wookie"? Ahh, another blessing by George Lucas.

LiquidSound

07-31-2002, 08:28 PM

A long, long time ago..splinters were a common problem in toilet paper. Yes you read that correctly. YEEEOUCH!!

scottvamp

07-31-2002, 08:41 PM

1931 Jenkins mechanical scanning disc TV set which throws an amazing picture up to 8" square, in home use; with optional reciever incasing one dynamic loudspreaker with efficient tone control called the JD-30

LiquidSound

07-31-2002, 08:58 PM

But is it THX certified?

scottvamp

07-31-2002, 09:05 PM

LOL:lol:

mantis

07-31-2002, 09:34 PM

Man.
I never thought this post would go the distance.....but man has it grown..........

Enjoy your systems your way...I'll enjoy mine..my way.
So Enjoy
Dan

Frank Z

07-31-2002, 09:50 PM

Sorry Mantis...
Your speakers are the wrong color. You can't have an opinion anymore!

mantis

07-31-2002, 09:54 PM

I plan on changing the color of my speaker's soon,
then can I have my opnion back?

LiquidSound

07-31-2002, 10:10 PM

But your way isn't right. It's not defined correctly. It's not in accordance with my standards. You can't enjoy it. It sucks. How can you enjoy something that doesn't gain my acceptance? I hope my disapproval of your ways eats at you until you buy Bose. Chew on that!......professional installation man...
*sorry...that fifth coors just kicked in real nice*:D

F1nut

08-01-2002, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by LiquidSound
and realize they're driving a three cylinder toaster.

Hee, Hee.....I like that one!

mantis

08-01-2002, 12:35 AM

Liquidsound,
nice try......I'm that that easy to egg on.You have your way...I have mine.....:o

gidrah

08-01-2002, 10:40 AM

I ran out of beer the same time I finished rading this f'ed-up thread. Fortunately, I've got Vico-Tuss and Vodka&juice. I've upgraded from Ny-Quil.

Mantis: Great thread. I have different opinions, but so what. Had this thread not gone to shit I would've voiced them. Oh well, I'll try anyways. Don't be so defensive and/or cocky and it'll all be good. I consider you to be a valuable resource with finances that are better than mine and a very stong opinion that is sometimes voiced inappropriatley. That's it don't get all big!

BDT: I agree with you fully, but.... I've never thought of HT as a way to improve on a bad movie, but a way to appreciate a movie to its' full potential. While that reproduction doesn't need to be 5.1, imagine 5 DQ-10s and the matching sub(s). Movie appreciation is separate to HT. That said, I'd rather watch any movie in 2ch with quality spkrs than in 5.1 with sun soaked Kraco 6x9s.

My thoughts:
If you watch a movie or TV and consider the audio/visual, its' HT.

Speakers do NOT need to be identical. Try to find an Acoustiflex (StereoLab) center spkr and I'll buy it. Until then I'll settle for my P'digm. I'll put these fronts up against a pair of *1000*s any day of the week.

MOST 5.1 movies are overly separated across the 5 channels. Far left on-screen sounds the same as far left 20ft off-screen. 2ft behind the camera sounds like 20ft behind. In which case good stereo sound is the far winner.

With quality speakers, a sub is not needed. In fact it is only a bandage.

Amps DO NOT need to match. If your front speakers match, this is the obvious preference. Until there is side imaging, there is no need for identical amps or speakers from front to rear.

Many people brought up good points that I'd like to comment on. Unfortunatly this thread is getting obscenely long and like I said, I'm outta beer.