Newbie with speaker questions

[BAN ONE]

I was wondering if you guys can help me out with some speaker choices. Now my system is old school and probably most haven't seen anything like these in years but without cutting the dash or installing a radio in a remote location, this is what I have to play with and looks somewhat corrrect for the year of the car.

System is a Pioneer KEX-50, Cd-7 and 3 Pioneer GM-120 amps (2 shown). The KEX-50 deck can only use specific Pioneer amps so I can not switch. Power output is 60 watts per channel.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/BAN_ONE/Restoration/system.jpg

Car is a 77 Trans Am and the interior has to be stock looking in appearance..so no door speakers or anything out of the ordinary. What I am looking for is front 4" dash speakers and rear deck speaker(presently will hold 6x9's). What are my speaker options with this setup? Is there enough power for a small sub?

As far as music goes, basically still like the rock tunes of the 70's and 80's. I still like to crank it up once and a while but over the years I would say my expectations are more towards accurate reproduction with a little bit of kick to it.

Thanks

[MacLeod]

The 77 Trans Am is my alltime favorite car in the world!!!

As for the speakers, here is your 4"
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/speakers/4/db400/

And this would be your 6x9
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mmc690/

Probably not enough power for a sub with those amps tho.

[BAN ONE]

What is the minimum input voltage today's amps require? The Pioneer HU specs says it's max. output level .....more than 200mv. The GM-120 amps says input level .... 70mv :confused: . Is there any amp out on the market that I might be able make work with this HU for a possible sub-woofer installation? If I am reading today's amps spec's correctly, they all use a lot higher input voltage.

Macleod, the 6x9 you mentioned, do the grills sit very high about the mounting surface? They look huge in the picture.

[BAN ONE]

Although far from finished...here is a sneak peak. Complete frame off restoration.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/BAN_ONE/Restoration/IMG_4909a.jpg

462 Pontiac 600hp/600lb/ft of torque. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/BAN_ONE/Restoration/IMG_4517.jpg

[1996blackmax]

That is one sweet looking ride!

[MacLeod]

Gawd thats beautiful! Id take that car in mint condition over any $100,000 Benz or BMW anyday!!

Your input voltage shouldnt be a problem. Thats what the gains are for on the amp, to match the HU's output signal to the amps input signal.

The MMC690's are pretty large speakers. However they only stick up 3/4 of an inch. I had them in the doors of my Ram and although I had to cut out the hole a little to get that huge ass basket in there, the depth wasnt a problem.

You can always go with the DB690's but I had the MMC690's for a couple years and I absoultely loved them. I absolutely think theyre the best sounding coaxial speaker on the market.

http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/db690/

[BAN ONE]

That is good to hear that I can use a different amp. I just have to figure out the DIN plug output.

Having said that...just for argument sake, lets say all I have is the Pioneer HU. What would be your recommendations then for amps and speakers. Accurate reproduction sound quality would be my goal.

Would 6.5 round on a 6x9 plate offer better sound then a 6x9?

Here's another shot of the TA is the early restoration stages:) .

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/BAN_ONE/Restoration/IMG_3947.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/BAN_ONE/Restoration/IMG_3944.jpg

[MacLeod]

Generally a round speaker will sound better than an oval one because its stiffer and more rigid which means it will distort less. However, a good quality 6x9 like the MMC690 will be plenty rigid and will have more midbass response so I would take it over the MMC650 round coaxial.

Love the pictures! Im drooling over here!

[MIwrestler]

wow! that is nice! what are those going for right now completely restored?

[BAN ONE]

MIwrestler, hard to say.... this isn't a factory restoration so really it depends what someone is willing to pay. The car is a Y81 TA which was only produced in 1977. It is a special edition that does not have the T-roofs but all the special edition striping. There was only 1861 made during that year.

[MacLeod]

They didnt make em in 78?

I know 77 and 78 are pretty close to being identical. 79 was when they went to that stupid front end with the split lights.

76's were pretty badass with the round headlights but the 77-78 just rule!!

Id love to have one with the 400 in it like the original ones did along with a 4 speed. It wouldnt take too much work to get 450 HP out of those original 400's.

[BAN ONE]

78 was the only year that Pontiac didn't have a without T-roof option on Special Editions.

I think after the success of the movie Smokey and the Bandit, most buyers opted for the T-roofs. They were a pain though as most leaked.


Looks like I will look into the MMC690 for the rears and the DB400's for the front. Now with having 3 amps, do you think I should bi-amp the 6x9's leaving one amp for the front DB400's

How do the DB400's compare to the Pioneer TS-G1041R's? I have a pair of these new sitting in a box. ..just curious. I figure now is the time to put the good stuff in up front as the front speakers are too much work to swap out when the dash is back in the car.

[MacLeod]

Oops. I mustve misread. I thought you only had 2 amps.

If youve got 3 then how about a small sub? An 8" or 10" in the trunk powered by the 3rd amp might work. You wont have massive bass but it would be a lot more than youd have with the 6x9's a lone.

[BAN ONE]

For a sub...pair of MM2084's?
Would you still stay with the 6x9's having a sub in the back?

[MacLeod]

Yup. Theyll still have better midbass respons in the 80-300 Hz area and youre really going to need that with those 4's in the front.

For the subs, you could either do a pair of 8's or run 1 bridged mono off one of your 2 channel amps IF they are stable to 2 ohms mono.

[1996blackmax]

If you want a very good 8" subwoofer, look at the Soundsplinter RL-i8. It requires a very small box, and has very good sound and output capabilities. My good fiend has one, and everyone who hears his system is always very surprised when he opens the trunk and shows them that it's only an 8" sub.

http://www.soundsplinter.com/rli_ignition_series_8_inch_and_10_inch_diy_subwoof er_drivers.html

http://www.soundsplinter.com/rli_series/rli_8_inch_DIY_car_and_home_subwoofer_driver_infor mation.html

[BAN ONE]

I can't bridge the amp and 4 ohms is the lowest impedance I can go with.

[MacLeod]

Hmm. Dont know dude. 60 watts per channel aint gonna do much even with 2 subs. You really need bigger amps if you want to run a sub.

[1996blackmax]

Agreed.... more power will difinately be needed.

[BAN ONE]

Ok, plan B.....Bi-amp the 6x9's and add a more powerful amp for subs. What amp?

[MacLeod]

Actually, with the 6x9's in the rear, Id say just run them off a single amp.

As for which amp, it depends on which sub.

Since its going into the trunk of a mostly metal car, Id recommend a 12" sub.

Actually, the best way to go and the way Id definitely go and if you can afford it would be to use the new DB212-2 sub box. Its an awesome looking and sounding premade box with 2 12" subs in it all ready to go. $300 at Crutchfield. No way you could beat that deal!! These things sound awesome and have some major output! And for $300 you cannot beat it!

http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/db212/
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fF1DcY1JSam/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?g=510&avf=Y&nvpair=FFBrand%7CPolk+Audio

And then power it with this amp. $400 at Crutchfield.

http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/c500_1/
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fF1DcY1JSam/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=107C5001

[BAN ONE]

That looks like an awesome unit but too big of a sub box for my trunk. I would need something around 22" wide to fit in the spot I was looking at in the trunk.

[MacLeod]

You could always go with one of these MM2124DVC's and run it off the 500.1

Youd have to build your own box but you could make it fit better.

http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mm2124dvc/

[KevinLWhitaker]

You cannot actually be planning to drive that vehicle can you? If it were mine there would be no way I would take that car outside and get it dirty! I can only imagine the amount of time, effort, and money that has been put into that vehicle. You will need to send Burt Reynolds an invite to come sit in it and have his picture taken.

I thought I knew what lust was until I looked at your pictures. Nice ride.

[BAN ONE]

Thanks for the comments. That would be cool to have Mr. Bandit himself standing beside the car for a picture or two.

I still have a ways to go before it is finished but I do plan on the occassional drive when it is done.

Here are a few more pic's :D .

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/BAN_ONE/Restoration/ECABLEASSEMBLYRIGHT.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/BAN_ONE/Restoration/IMG_4850a.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/BAN_ONE/Restoration/IMG_4596.jpg

[BAN ONE]

I checked the trunk and just measuring up under the rear tray to the trunk floor, 12" probably won't work. If I stepping down to the 10" size..what is the difference between the MM2104 and MM2104DVC in sound.

Also, is SoundSplinter products only available from their site?

Sorry for all the question as I have been out of the automotive stereo end of the market for quite some time :( .

[1996blackmax]

There is another place to pick up Soundsplinter stuff from, can't remember the name right now. Will dig tomorrow....

[DSkip]

the DVC = dual voice coil. There really wont be any difference in sound, it just allows more wiring options. For example the subs I use are single coils and with the 2ch amp I use, they cannot be bridged. If they were DVC subs, I could get twice the power to each sub by dropping the ohm load to 2 ohms with the extra 2 coils. Which one you will want to get depends on how you intend to wire it. The other guys can explain more in depth for you.

P.S.- the only reason I have SVC db124's is because they were on sale for 20 bucks at Fry's. Greatest store ever.

[MacLeod]

Dskip is right. There wont be any difference in sound between a SVC and DVC sub. Theyre just there to accomodate different wiring options.

The 10's will still work. A pair of MM2104's with a C500.1 would be plenty of grunt in the low end.

[BAN ONE]

Thanks for the info guys.

[BAN ONE]

I have another question. I would like to hook up my ipod to my old unit. I have read that a car cassette adapter is the way to go. Is there one brand that is reccommended over another? I know Sony makes one (CPA-9C Car Cassette Adapter)....any others out there?

[DSkip]

You can do something like that or there are fm transmitters that plug into the cig lighter. You choose what station you want it transmitted over and put the radio on that station (i.e. 89.5). They work ok for the most part but not too great of SQ if thats what youre looking for. A good unit will sound comparable to standard radio stations.

[BAN ONE]

I have heard that the cassette adapter SQ is actually very good compared to the FM transmitter (which is as you said not the best). I just don't know if there is one brand better than another.

[MacLeod]

Id just get the Sony so you know youd got about the best.