Computer experts please chime in!

[2+2]

Hey buds. I want a new pretty basic computer and am thinking of getting a Compaq AMD 64 3500+. This system has an AM2 socket mobo. I am thinking that in a couple of years, when I need a faster processor, I can drop in a AMD 64 X2 5200+ dual core or what ever is fastest with some more memory to update the system.

My concern is that this may not be possible with premanufactured computer from companies like Compaq/HP. Any knowledge on if this is possible and how Compaq may have the system implemented to prevent this? Thanks.

[Fireman32]

The only problem I think you need to worry about is replacing power supplies as the company's usually make the screw holes just slightly off from the standard. Dell I know is famous for this. As far as the processer you should be able to drop a new one in without a problem as long as the motherboard can support it. Make sure that it can take upgrades or do a firmware update to accept a more powerfull processer. Hope this helps.

[2+2]

Hmmm...not sure what you mean by power supplies...I would think this only becomes an issue if I need to swap out the motherboard which is what I am trying to avoid.

Thanks though...I snooped around HP site and found the specs for the motherboard. Turns out it only supports Athlon 64....bummer. Back to the drawing boards....

[VSchneider]

I want a new pretty basic computer and am thinking of getting a Compaq AMD 64 3500+. This system has an AM2 socket mobo...

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ will actually give you very reasonable performance far beyond the "basic computer" needs. While generally replacing a CPU and memory is relatively an easy task (with little patience and a manual if you have never done it before), your computer's main board may need a firmware upgrade, which a manufacturer like Compaq or Dell may not have any reason to release. On the other hand, parts makers like Asus, MSI, DFI, etc. will always release patches to extend the life of their producs and make them more compatible with newer components.

Check the Compaq/HP website if the same series computer can already be customized with a dual-core Athlon CPU. That will give you an indication that the board may already support it.

Replacing a power supply may be necessary because the stock one may 1) fail and 2) not provide enough juice if you start upgrading your PC.

[McLoki]

Most of the cheaper computers (like compaq/Hp, E-Machines, etc.) are actually fine computers. The thing you have to keep in mind with them though is purchase them configured the way you want and when they start getting slow, you get a new one (i.e. - don't upgrade). You can maybe add a video card (if it has a pci-e slot - worth looking for) but other than that, purchase more than you need with the expectation that when it gets slow you let the kids use it or give it to someone else that would get use out of it.

Upgrading the cheaper machines is a nightmare since the manufactures want you to purchase a new one (not upgrade) and therefore do not manufacture them for easy component replacement.

I would get a nice $600 (or so) machine and just plan on replacing it every 3-4 years. Your other option is to build or purchase a higher end one ($1500 or so) and then upgrade it every 2 or 3 years until 6 or 7 years later you purchase a replacement.

Michael

[PhantomOG]

you should be ok. with computer prices the way they are, in 2 or 3 years when you are thinking about upgrading you might even consider just purchasing the then basic config from one of the big manufacturers. Vista will probably be stable by then so you'll want to upgrade almost everything.

I'd say just get the low/mid end configured HP/DELL/etc. in the $3-600 range and you'll be fine.

Also try and look around for deals from Dell. You can get some pretty amazing deals if you wait for them. Back in November I got a Athlon 64 X2 3800+ setup for ~$330 including shipping (that even included a 17" CRT which I sold on craigslist for $60!). Check places like FatWallet (http://www.fatwallet.com/c/18/) and such and you could save some bucks.

[disneyjoe7]

Bad plan IMHO These cheap machines being nice when new don't like to be upgraded later. You will have BIOS issues, Motherboard issues, PowerSupply issues, just fact it you'll have ISSUES. Something worth upgrading I can't say, something you could live with for a while maybe. If you go that route what headache is worth what is going to be your call later.

[VSchneider]

Just to add to some good ideas here.

Have you thought maybe about building your PC from parts? I don't know your level of comfort here.

Also, when people complain about their pre-built PC's being slow, 90% of the time the computer just needs more memory. Computer builders are notorious for undersizing memory in the budget PC category. What they give you is usually only enough for the operating system itself and 1-2 basic applications.

[Kelley_Moore]

Great advice from McLoki.

I would encourage you to try building one yourself. It is expensive for the first one since you have to buy everything from the case to all of the components that go inside and an Operating system. However, in the long run, you’ll get more of a machine for less money with some smart shopping. Of course, be sure to always stay behind the technology curve by about 6 months or so to get the best prices.

If you intend to just browse the internet and pay bills, then go with the Compaq. If you intend on using resource intensive software such as Games or Video editing software, just to name a few, then I would suggest building one yourself. In the end, you will look back and realize it wasn’t all that bad. Of course, there can be some frustrating times getting all the new fancy components to play nicely with one another.

Just a thought,

Kelley

[ben62670]

I own a computer repair and networking business. Compaq and HP are one in the same. In the computer industry HP stands for horrible product. No PC out there is going to be 100%. I am also an AMD fan, but the new dual core Pentiums are the way to fly. I would recommend a Dell. If you have a good local shop that builds PCs you may want to consider them. All mass produced PC's have tons of crap loaded on them in the startup. When I build my machines I do not load them up with tons of crap software that is never used, just the basics. Stay away from Compaq, HP, and Sony sucks. The only 2 I would consider is Dell, and Gateway. Gateways tend to be more expensive, and a little more limited in upgrade ability.
Ben

[PhantomOG]

I do understand people's advice to build your own. You have far more flexibility yadda yadda yadda.

But you're talking to a guy that doesn't know what a power supply is. He said he wants a "basic" computer. Is it worth the effort for him to learn how to build a computer from scratch, deal with installing the O/S, drivers, etc etc?

As far as pricing? For a "basic" computer you absolutely cannot beat the Dells/HPs for low to mid end pricing. No way, no how if you include the price of the operating system. As far as upgrades, plopping in another stick of ram, or a second hard drive does NOT pose a problem.

With that said, if he is going to be playing current generation games or compute intensive work, more options should be looked at. However, if he is going to be surfing the web, checking email, and playing minesweeper, I thinks its foolish to send this guy down the path of buying (or building) a high end computer.

[ben62670]

HP's and Compacs suck really bad. Take a look at add remove program, and see how many hp programs there are. Also check out startup, and see how many HP programs are in the msconfig file. Stay Away Stay far Away

[2+2]

Thanks for your opinions....I will have to think a bit harder but I will take the advice of not going in with "upgrade" mentality for the preconfigured systems...that sux.

I am not an expert but not green either. I built Athlon 2500 system and Celeron 2.8 system. I killed the Athlon mobo and am looking it as an opportunity to upgrade. My primary computationally intensive work will be in family videos and photos...no games...I was looking at parts for a new AMD system when I noticed that preconfigured systems are pretty cheap these days...It really makes a difference since I need an OS too...I am running win2000 now.

[PhantomOG]

So I guess you do know how to build. So it all boils down to price :)

[2+2]

So I guess you do know how to build. So it all boils down to price :)

Not exactly...as I personally dont wnat to spend the time building if I can help it....you got a good deal on that Dell....something like that would be nice!

[PhantomOG]

do you have any military connections? AAFES gets some pretty sweet deals on Dells pretty regularly.

[Demiurge]

HP sucks? Weird. Never had a problem with mine in 5 years dealing with them. Is this like a Ford Vs Chevy debate for nerds?

[PhantomOG]

HP sucks? Weird. Never had a problem with mine in 5 years dealing with them. Is this like a Ford Vs Chevy debate for nerds?

Shh... don't talk like that or before you know it the Apple fanboys will start preaching too. :D

[disneyjoe7]

HP sucks? Weird. Never had a problem with mine in 5 years dealing with them. Is this like a Ford Vs Chevy debate for nerds?


But they are all JAPS items here. :D

[Demiurge]

Shh... don't talk like that or before you know it the Apple fanboys will start preaching too. :D

:p :p :p

[ben62670]

Is this like a Ford Vs Chevy debate for nerds?
Nope, I fix them for a living. The power suplies and mobos are spotty, and the software configuration slows them down so much.

[BIZILL]

i'd go with a dell or build your own. video editting will be far more enjoyable if it can be done with good speed. and if you create a more powerful machine, you'll be more apt to getting into other applications, though at the moment you claim no need for it. the potential will be there. perhaps use it as a home theater pc. high-def content and things of the like. even games, on down the road.

[PhantomOG]

don't know if you bought one already...

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
1 GB ram
160 GB SATA HD
16x DVD+/-RW
GeForce 6150 Integrated graphics (no gaming, but ok for office/web)
XP Home, with option for $55 upgrade to Vista
19" analog LCD
$599 from Dell (http://www.fatwallet.com/redirect/bounce.php?afsrc=1&url=http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bddwbbl&s=bsd)

not exactly a steal, but a decent deal.

[Willow]

we bought an Acer and have no complaints with the Pentium dual core. I have 2 DVD burners in it and right now 260g worth of HDs with room for 4 more. came with a 17" LCD and we paid on sale CAD $699.00

[RSTERN]

Just picked this up with and a 19in ws monitor with rebates for 799
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?product_code=RC663AA%23ABA&tab=overview&storeName=storefronts&landing=rts_desktops&category=rts_desktops&subcat1=retail&catLevel=3#defaultAnchor

[BottomFeeder]

Hey, let's up the passion level of this debate, shall we?;)

With great trepidation, I switched to Mac's 3 years ago and I'm so glad I did. No virus worries, no spyware hassles, they're easy and fun to use & I can do everything on my Mac that I did on my PC's and more. Not looking for a fight here, just chipping in w/my 2 cents.

[McLoki]

Do you find yourself mainly running macintosh programs or windows programs? How is the speed compared to a dedicated windows machine? Do you find hardware limitations limiting the games you can play? (or do you even play games?)

Just wondering.

Michael

[Refefer]

Macs are really good for a couple of things, and pretty horrible for a couple of others.

For most basic users, they are excellent. If you're doing any thing multimedia(read: video, stills, music), they are the benchmark.

If you're doing games, well, Apple's getting there ;)

The most important thing is that they run Firefox and Word and do almost everything that windows machines do, with the exception of customization and software availability.

I don't run a mac except when I'm working, but they are very capable machines and I don't believe I've ever found a more qualified tech support program.

However, I like to have full control over my computer, and I love the ability to tweak Windows. I don't need a sandbox to play in and I know how to keep my computer safe, and that is the only real reason that I use windows, excluding the lack of software.

[BottomFeeder]

Do you find yourself mainly running macintosh programs or windows programs? How is the speed compared to a dedicated windows machine? Do you find hardware limitations limiting the games you can play? (or do you even play games?)

Just wondering.

Michael

I use both. Because of familiarity, I use Windows for Mac stuff like Word, Outlook and so forth. But I also love a lot of Mac stuff as well. What I appreciated when I jumped to Mac was that I was able to be up and running in just a day. One, because Mac's are easy to learn and two, because I could use Windows stuff.

The speed is terrific.

I don't do many games.

[nadams]

There's absolutely no reason to purchase an overpriced Mac anymore. When their hardware was proprietary, yeah, maybe... but now they're just the same x86 machines everyone else has. But they never lowered their price...

that x2 for $600 from Dell is actually a very good deal... I wouldn't be able to build an x2 for that price. Well... maybe, since they used onboard graphics. Still I'd rather spend the money on what I want rather than what Dell thinks I want.

[ledhed]

Hey buds. I want a new pretty basic computer and am thinking of getting a Compaq AMD 64 3500+. This system has an AM2 socket mobo. I am thinking that in a couple of years, when I need a faster processor, I can drop in a AMD 64 X2 5200+ dual core or what ever is fastest with some more memory to update the system.

My concern is that this may not be possible with premanufactured computer from companies like Compaq/HP. Any knowledge on if this is possible and how Compaq may have the system implemented to prevent this? Thanks.

Those specs seem more than enough to me. I am using a P4 2.6GHZ 800mhz FSB from about 3 years ago. I upgraded to 1.5 GBs of RAM and an ATI 9600xt graphics card. It can handle everything I throw at it (alot of editing mostly) but, I do not play graphics intensive games (my newest ones are NFS: Most Wanted and THPS American Wasteland) Unless you are a gamer, I would see no reason in needing to upgrade. Just make sure your HDD is decently fast (7200 RPM through an SATA connector would be good)

[2+2]

Well gents, presuming I will NOT be upgrading the CPU, I went and bought an Acer desk top. Important specs are: X2 4200+, 1gig 3200 RAM, 250 SATA, Dual layer DVD, XP media w/Vista Premium mail in upgrade. The price? $600 -150 rebate -40 coupon = $410 after I get the rebate which takes forever. Tax put it about $440 total. I couldnt find any better value..at least not now. I got the last one in my local area. I am a bit nervous about Acer as it is not a popular brand....I am continuously runnning to see if there is any problems so I can return it if there is...

The price is low because it is older in that it's the 939 socket and not the AM2 but since I wont be "upgrading", it should not matter much. The memory is slower. However, one online testing report showed no appreciable system difference between 939 and AM2 4200+ systems, and in fact, in the article I read, 939 4200+ was actually faster...go figure.

Strange things I noticed abut the computer are:
1. There is NO case fan...just a big perforation on the side of the case behind the cpu fan. Actually pretty nice since it is quiet. X2 also runs cool so I dont think I will add another fan unless I notice high temps...
2. The 250 SATA has been partitioned down the middle with half being NTxx format and other half being FAT32. Does anyone know why they do this and how I can undo it?

Thx..

[MillerLiteScott]

I have had an Acer Laptop for a year now and I have not had any problems with it. It was cheaper than the other laptops. It had less of the garbage programs installed on it than all the other laptops. The battery does not last much longer than 2 hours now but that is understandable and not an actual indication of the computer.

My thought was if it is good enough for Ferrari it is good enough for me.

[2+2]

It had less of the garbage programs installed on it than all the other laptops.

Yes...I also noticed this...there were very few programs loaded on the system which I consider to be a positive...I think I only need to unload about 2 programs...PC friendly and Norton...

[ledhed]

The only way to get it all as one accessible NTFS is a format. Though, if you have an operating system you can install, you will probably get better performance if you did format. I know I always see gains after a fresh install and saw a HUGE leap when I formatted and got rid of everything HP had on my machine.

[nadams]

The FAT32 partition is likely a DOS accessable recovery partition. Did they provide any disks with the system, or is the only way to restore it to go through the recovery partition?

If you've got disks for it, and you haven't gotten too far into customizing it to your liking, fdisk that thing and get rid of the recovery partition. Another alternative if you don't want to fdisk it and lose everything, is to buy PartitionMagic, which can delete the old and resize the existing, without changing anything.

[2+2]

Thanks for the info....No...they didnt provide any disks which I found strange too that I forgot to mention...but I guess a lot of vendors are doing that now to save that extra $1. Upon boot, they instructed me to burn a couple dvds as backup...

Right now, the system shows C: and D: drives, C being NTFS and D being FAT 32. Can I just run fdisk on the D partition? What is the downside to having these two different partition drives? What happens when I reach 125gigs on the C drive? This is where my "green-ness" shows through.....

Otherwise, maybe Vista will allow me to do that upon its install. As noted, not much to delete on this thing....that partition thing is really strange...

[disneyjoe7]

Fdisk as I know it is disk wide, doing this would wipe everything clean, I don't think this would be a good idea IMHO.

[nadams]

you can use fdisk to delete the FAT32 partition, but it won't automatically resize the NTFS partition to fit. For that, you'll need Partition Magic. A handy program to have, at any rate.

What I've found strange about some manufacturers, is they'll even go so far as to include the blank CDs... but you still have to go through the media creation process on first boot. I can't imagine it saves them _that_ much money in the long run, when we're talking about the mass production of tens of thousands of CDs

[ben62670]

which part is fat32 the OS or D drive?
if you right click my computer and select manage, then storage, then disk management(local) locate your d drive then right click and properties.
Remeber your restore data may be on this partition.
some computers don't come with restore disk, and they want you to create them. Make sure you have restore disks before you delete this partition.
Ben

[2+2]

thanks for the comments...fat32 is the D drive named Acerdata...and its empty. OS is in C drive named Acer....strange indeed....114gb partition and 13.9Mb used which is probably the format...I dont think that is enough for a restore data...

[disneyjoe7]

I bet is not empty but the files are hidden.