why the music is better only on 2 channel?

[Tequila]

Is there something to tell about? Some people likes the music on 5.1 or even 7.1 channels? What do you think?

[dagame27]

For me, the problem with most multichannel music is the placement of the instruments. I don't want to hear instruments behind me, as when I go to a concert I am not in the middle of the stage. It's not that it does not sound good, it does. I just prefer a good 2 channel setup with good soundstage seperation more.

[michael_w]

Unless music is recorded in the studio in more than two channels it's only natural to play it through two speakers. If you're playing media that only contains two channels of music and yet you're playing it through five or more speakers, it's up to the processor or receiver to basically make something up and decide how to distribute things. IMO when it comes to listening to music, less is more. Two ears, two channels, two speakers.

I started out in the audio world by setting up a little home theater for myself and later decided two channel was for me. Maybe surround was just a novelty for me, but the fun wore off quickly and two channel became my new passion. I still enjoy watching movies and hearing bullets fly over my head, just at the movies or on someone elses' system :p

[pblanc]

Some properly recorded SACD or DVD audio discs can enhance the "stereo" listening experience by using the center and surround channels to recreate the ambiance of the listening hall without detracting from the front stereo image. Obviously, this is more beneficial for live recordings.
Some recordings (Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon comes to mind) were never intended to present of a coherent front stereo image, but more of a surrealistic surround effect and multichannel is great for that type of thing.

Most recordings are totally "artificial" anyway with multitrack mixing, overdubbing, etc. On these there really isn't any ambiance to recreate.

I think if your preference is for music listening, and your budget is not unlimited, you will get vastly more bang for your buck sticking with a high quality 2 channel system rather than going with a lesser quality multichannel system. For home theater, however, I think its the other way around.

[dholmes]

You only have 2 ears!!

[Refefer]

I agree with all of them. I like to hear the music as I would hear the music. Multi-channel audio should be reserved for movies almost exclusively since all conversions from from 2-channel to multi-channel tend to do more harm then good.

[cfrizz]

Sorry I'm going to have to be the only dissenter here. I like listening in 5 channel stereo at times & I love multichannel SACD's & DVD-A's! I like utilizing all of my speakers, that's why I got them.

[schwarcw]

Cathy I'm with you for certain music. I like the multi channel music if it isn't too aggressive in the real channels. Live performances are usually pretty good in multi channel. Stereo was originally conceived to be three channel (left, right and center). Some of the original RCA "Living Stereo" recordings were done in three channel. I suggest the rear channel levels need to be much lower than calibrated for HT. This is my own preference.

[cfrizz]

Agreed Carl.:)


Cathy I'm with you for certain music. I like the multi channel music if it isn't too aggressive in the real channels. Live performances are usually pretty good in multi channel. Stereo was originally conceived to be three channel (left, right and center). Some of the original RCA "Living Stereo" recordings were done in three channel. I suggest the rear channel levels need to be much lower than calibrated for HT. This is my own preference.

[cfrizz]

Tequila, is this what you believe or are you simply asking because this is what all hard cord 2 channel people say?

Do you like listening to all your speakers playing music or not?

There is NO right or wrong here, just different preferences. Don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise.


Is there something to tell about? Some people likes the music on 5.1 or even 7.1 channels? What do you think?

[Early B.]

Music in surround mode certainly has a cool factor, but it is artificial, at best. I think it's great for parties; otherwise, 2-channel is the way to go, IMO.

[Tequila]

Hi Cathy:

Sometimes I think "damn, the drum is beside me or the guitar is in front" BUT not...the most of my cds are 2 channel music....but is really cool to me hear 4 speakers stereo...too. I like the two ways but i think is more real only two channel or 2.1 with SW. I will buy a pair Rti12 for the 2 channel and I have now 4 rti8 for the multichannel stereo. I think on multichannel is better the SAME type of speaker. Now my budget is not to 4 rti12.:D

Good day.

[cfrizz]

LOL good enough Tequila!

[george daniel]

two ears,,,two channels,, one for each :)

[Deadof_knight]

2 channel 4 speakers is all right but when my son plays the stereo in 5.1 mode I always walk in and change it to stereo mode it just sounds weird too me , Ive set around and played with the settings to see if I would like it then. It just doesnt so I dont worry about it anymore. 2 Channel BABY!

[Music Joe]

Placement of two speakers into the typical room presents a challenge. A cabling budget. Three-Five more loudspeakers to interact with the room.
Sub placement. I'm sure someone out there has the time,money,and space.
Just when you think two are set up perfect some piece of music comes along and.....

[pblanc]

I understand you folks who object to having a guitar suddenly pounding out some riff from your blind side, or a saxophone blasting at you from behind. Any reasonable person would agree that a sax in the rear is no damn good.

[hearingimpared]

Listen to 2 ch and then in multi. If you like the realism of two channel great, if you like the effects of multi great. It is entirely up to what you think sounds the best.

I personally find anything more than 2 ch sound to be effects rather than music reproduction.

Just an example. I was at a fellow Polkies house and were listening to Dianna Krall "Live in Paris". WE switched to his HT system and watched and listened to the same performace. As awesome as the HT system sounded, I found that the 2 ch recording reproduced the sound of the instruments and vocals more acurately. Sound effects vs music reproduction.

[pblanc]

I think for most recordings you are absolutely correct, the multichannel layer just breaks up the front stage "image". There are a few multichannel SACDs however in which the additional channels only recreate a bit of the acoustical ambiance of the original listening environment, and on those I prefer the multichannel effect.

[hearingimpared]

I think for most recordings you are absolutely correct, the multichannel layer just breaks up the front stage "image". There are a few multichannel SACDs however in which the additional channels only recreate a bit of the acoustical ambiance of the original listening environment, and on those I prefer the multichannel effect.


I'm willing to bet that one of those would be the Jazz at the Pawnshop SACD. One of the great things about his recording is the room ambience and din. With the 2 ch, you feel a part of the audience I can only imagine what it would sound like with multi. . . pretty soon though I'll have my HT rig up and able to listen to it.

[Tequila]

I did try and try and try and really think than 2 channel is better for music to ME. Sometimes like me the efects from mch BUT the image from the FRONTS is really better. Now, I am thinking buy another amp to another pair of fronts and another SW to FULL the FRONT stage with real 2.1 sound x 2. That is better than bi-amp....I mean bi-amp and bi-speakers and bi-woffer...:D

AND No surrounds.

[John K.]

The reasons and technology for using surround speakers with 2-channel music sources should be explained. The idea isn't to move a performer to the side or back of the listener; with a properly calibrated surround level this doesn't happen. Note that what's being discussed isn't multi-channel DVDs, DVD-As and SACDs which may intentionally place performers or other sounds discretely in the surround channels; this applies to 2-channel sources only. In the concert hall the majority of the sound(unless we're conducting the orchestra)reaches us as reflected ambience from the sides and back, rather than directly from the front. When all of this taken in by the recording microphones, if the format is 2-channel it has to be mixed into those 2 channels, not as a matter of choice but because there's no place else to put it.

Now, processing such as DPLII and Logic 7 can detect the phase differences which exist in the part of the sound in the 2 channels which is reflected rather than direct and extract it. It's then steered to the surround speakers, where it belongs. Nothing is added, this is simply making the reproduction in our homes sound a little more realistic by reproducing the natural ambience from a direction that more closely duplicates what was heard at the actual performance.

[F1nut]

If you're going to continue posting quotes you copied from a Goggle search, please put the info in quotes as not to deceive the noobies into thinking that you actually know anything about audio.

[michael_w]

Nothing is added, this is simply making the reproduction in our homes sound a little more realistic by reproducing the natural ambience from a direction that more closely duplicates what was heard at the actual performance.
If the source is recorded without any ambience (such as a recording studio) woudn't two channel still be the wiser choice so that your room can create it's own ambience as if they were playing in your own home? How can you create an ambience that wasn't there to begin with, asuming the recording is not of a live performance.

[pblanc]

I agree, if it wasn't a live recording, the additional channels are a "waste of watts". Your living room isn't going to recreate the ambiance of a concert hall, a jazz club, or an auditorium, however (unless you like using those rather hokey sound effects that you get with the DSPs on most recievers these days).

[pblanc]

Joe, You must be psychic. Jazz at the Pawnshop is one of the recordings I was thinking of.

[Joey_V]

I like to listen in stereo 2ch, but I would have to agree that if multichannel is done right, that ambience is pretty darn cool if implemented correctly. Nothing like truly feeling like you're at the venue.


If you're going to continue posting quotes you copied from a Goggle search, please put the info in quotes as not to deceive the noobies into thinking that you actually know anything about audio.

Who cares if he posts it straight from google. Last I checked this place isnt a place of academia where it matters. Leave the guy alone, Jesse. Quit policing the place.

[TroyD]

For one reason, if you know the source of the quote, it can either add/detract from the credibility fo the information.

Sort of like if you are posting information about, let's say smoking. You post a bunch of stuff that says smoking isn't harmful etc. If it's a tobacco company posting it it's probably less credible than if the FDA posted it.

Plagarism isn't cool.

In John K's case, he just doesn't believe in hifi. He likes to post a lot of garbage and pass it off as original thought when in most cases, it isn't. He also seems to not grasp that not everyone hears things the same way.

BDT

[TN_Polk_Lover]

I agree with TroyD. If I ever post anything that I have just read somewhere and have not personally experienced myself, then I like to say so, even if I don't remember the exact source. Furthermore, if I were to quote something verbatim, I'd always put it in quotes and give credit. If it is something you just "lift" from another webpage, I would prefer to just provide a link to that webpage.

The good thing about this forum is when people talk about things they have done / experienced first hand and share with everyone their findings.

Robert

[hearingimpared]

The good thing about this forum is when people talk about things they have done / experienced first hand and share with everyone their findings.

Robert

You got that right brother the key word is experience. It seems of late there are a lot of yahoos who love to post **** they've read and stick with it like gospel and they haven't even the least experience with it. I'll take one year of experience to 4 years of schooling.

[Joey_V]

Troy,

I agree, plagiarism isnt the best way to get your point across, so if John K has been doing this on more than one occassion, then I suppose calling him out in public is not entirely uncalled for.

However, I checked his recent posts and havent seen evidence of this, so I thought calling him out on the basis of posting what appeared to me as something that he didnt write was a little of a "macho" thing. It's cool when plagiarism is called out on account of being a damaging to the subject at hand, but in this case, I just thought John K was called out because he was being a noob by trying not to be one, hence the plagiarism.

I'll be the first to agree, posting your own thoughts is one way to gain respect, but maliciously calling someone out (F1nut's reply) isnt exactly the best way to go about it I think. A PM might be better.

But, again, if John K has been doing this and I have not been a witness to it, then the call out was appropriate in my opinion.

I just wanted to stick up for the little guy. This place need not a jack ass remark for everytime someone does something a little "off".

Just me... I could be wrong. But again, you're right, plagiarism isnt exactly the best way to get around.

[F1nut]

Who cares if he posts it straight from google. Last I checked this place isnt a place of academia where it matters. Leave the guy alone, Jesse. Quit policing the place.

You see Joey, that's one of the differences between you and I. I take the time to look out for my fellow Polkies, where as you just look out for yourself. Now, before you get all defensive bear in mind that I have an uncanny ability to see folks for what they are by what they write and how they write it. Granted, some make it so obvious any idiot can see it. Anyway, as I was saying, you make it pretty obvious what you're about and judging by the emails and PM's I've received, there are a lot of other folks here who see the real you too. On the other hand, there seem to be a number of folks who believe you when you tell them it's raining while you're pissing on their leg. I suppose the adage, "You can fool some people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time", would fit here.

So, with that in mind, how many noobie questions have you answered? How many, "Welcome to the forum" posts have you made? How many times have you pointed out someone trying to pull a scam? How many times have you flushed out a troll? How many times have you lent or given someone here a piece of gear or some audio related goodie? How many times have you helped someone fix or mod a piece of gear for no other reason than you want to see them enjoying this hobby? How many road trips have you gone on to help someone pick up a piece of gear and been more excited about it than the person buying it? How many times have you searched for the answer to a question just because you wanted to help someone, expecting nothing in return? What exactly have you given back to the forum other than something that's all about you? No need to answer any of those questions because we already know.

How dare you tell me what to do or what not to do. You haven't earned that right, you're not even close!

[dorokusai]

If that isn't the most pretentious post in history, let me know. When are we going to begin to send jpg's of our forum genitals?

[F1nut]

Really? As if you had room to talk.

[dorokusai]

I can get pretty mean and open if you want, just let me know.

[RuSsMaN]

Do it!!! Scorched Earth!!!

[Joey_V]

How dare you tell me what to do or what not to do. You haven't earned that right, you're not even close!
You're right Jesse.. I dont have the right.

And in the same token, neither do you have the right to be a jackass whenever you feel like it. I'm tired of seeing you be a jackass whenever the opportunity presents itself.

It wasnt exactly the plagiarism that got me to post back at your reply, it was the fact that you have no tact in getting your point across.

I'm not saying dont be a jackass.. I'm just saying that you can get your point across without having to be one. It's an opinion of mine. You can do as you please regardless of my opinion. That's YOUR right.

[Deadof_knight]

School of hard knocks teaches at an infantecimal pace......(hope my spellings is correct) as dead looks over his shoulder. School is great knowledge but it has to be applied with experience to over come most problems. If all you do is quote a book then well, you have a good memory not wisdom.

[F1nut]

I can get pretty mean and open if you want, just let me know.

Ditto and that goes twice for you, Russ.

[F1nut]

Joey, how's this for tact? Grow up.

[heiney9]

Who cares if he posts it straight from google. Last I checked this place isnt a place of academia where it matters. Leave the guy alone, Jesse. Quit policing the place.

If you've followed JohnK at all you know he's a bit of crack pot when it comes to audio. He doesn't believe in anything making a difference. If it were up to him we'd all still be listening to acetate's on a Victrola. He is a source of poor and many times incorrect info. But the biggest irk is him passing off idea's and statements that aren't really his own and then acting like he is some sort of audio guru. He's absolutely welcome to post whatever he wants, but he is going to get called on it everytime.

[Joey_V]

If you've followed JohnK at all you know he's a bit of crack pot when it comes to audio. He doesn't believe in anything making a difference. If it were up to him we'd all still be listening to acetate's on a Victrola. He is a source of poor and many times incorrect info. But the biggest irk is him passing off idea's and statements that aren't really his own and then acting like he is some sort of audio guru. He's absolutely welcome to post whatever he wants, but he is going to get called on it everytime.

Ah I see..

In that case, the call out was justified. My bad then.

Regardless, there are always better ways to do a call out than being condescending and mean.

[dorokusai]

Edited For Content.

[Joey_V]

IMO, you're the biggest first impression ******* on this forum, bar none. It's a real shame because your offsite personality is solid and your really interesting to talk to in a localized enviroment. How you pull a 180 in regards to your conduct here amazes me.

Aside from running off new, albeit some are clearly lame, members, ragging on current members’ gear, being the resident “Flea Market Savior” and wishing Happy Birthday to folks, what do you contribute exactly?


I will say this, regardless of whichever or whoever this JohnK guy is, I do not know him so I cant say much for or against him.

That said, I will say that F1nut's reply to JohnK's supposed plagiarism is prototypical of his regular postings. It's always condescending and most often than not, degrading to the member it is directed towards.

There are many better ways of communicating without being an *******, and although it is his right to be an *******, it's also my right to call him out on being one... regardless if this affects him or not.

Being an ******* gives a bad vibe for the community and it's not something that is necessary to convey the experience or knowledge that one has. From my PMs and from the posts that F1 has written, I feel that he does this whole ******* front because he feels that what he has done for Club Polk and his experience here allows him the leeway (sp?) to do so.

Regardless if he doesnt care what others think of him, being a prick is never necessary and there are many more amicable ways to go about getting one's point across.

Just my 2cents.

[Joey_V]

Joey, how's this for tact? Grow up.

Actually, Jesse, it is you who should grow up. What with your PM threats of "you dont know who you're messing with" and what not. I think it's safe to say that we all have graduated elementary school and we need not these playground threats and bullies.

Especially when you take into account that all we're talking about is audio for goodness sakes man. This isnt exactly a make/break topic we have going on here, so unnecessary roughness need not apply.

I really dont see why you have to walk around the forum with a rod up your ass the whole time.

Again, just my opinion.

[steveinaz]

I stay 2-channel for 2 reasons:

1. Economics
2. Sound

I'd much rather concentrate the money 5.1 speakers (or 7.1) require, into a really nice pair of 2-channel speakers.

The sometimes "sitting in the middle of the band" effect you get with surround it's just too contrived for me. For movies it's cool, but I don't like it with music.

But as Cathy said, it's a personal preference thing.

[Midnite Mick]

It has probably already been stated but the only benefit I see in surround music is for live performances. Receiving ambient crowd noise behind may give you more of a feeling of being part of the event.

I have heard an SACD (Queen) in multi-channel and I didn't like it. It just didn't seem natural to have a guitar coming out of a right surround...just sounded off, maybe because I was not used to it. Just didn't do it for me.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks,
Mike

[Midnite Mick]

Also for most of us our main speakers are our best speakers. I would rather have all of the music being reproduced by what I have best.

Mike

[pblanc]

I have no doubt that with the money i spent on an all LSi 7.1 system (LSi15 mains, 2 Lsi9 centers, LSiFX surrounds, LSi7 rear surrounds, and the amplification required to drive all those 4 ohm speakers, that I could have gotten a truely kick-ass 2 channel system with a terrific 2 channel amp and a pair of Vandersteens, Martin-Logan, Magneplanars, Sonus Fabers, or (insert favorite speaker here). If I listened mainly to music I'm sure I would have done so. I do enjoy home theater, however, and there is no doubt that a two channel system, while still sounding very good, does introduce a significant limitation for HT. I fully understand why a lot of music lovers are willing to accept that compromise. When listening to music, unless on a DVD video, multichannel DVD-Audio or multichannel SACD, I invariably set my pre/pro to stereo "pure direct". I must say, though, that the LSi15s are terrific speakers that are not embarrased by those higher-priced brands.

[TroyD]

I think in theory that multi-channel has merit.

However, the devil is in the details.

The foremost shortcoming is the recordings. Most, if not all, of this stuff is being mixed from 2 channel masters. So, more than ever, you are at the mercy of an engineer. There are other format issues but that's the huge one.

Two is the gear/setup. Ideally, you would have identical speakers/amps all the way around. That's not terribly practical and in many cases, feasible.

So, for me, it's not that I'm philospophically opposed to multi-channel, I just think the execution of it, so far, isn't where it needs to be.

As for the rest of it. Look, we ALL push our own agendas. We're all a bunch of people living in glass houses.

As far as JohnK goes, he might be a great guy in real life (as I think both Mark and Jesse are, I'd take a bullet in the ass for either of them) but he's got a specific agenda as well..........many of his posts are can be attributed to other sources which aren't as objective as he'd have us believe.

Again, at the end of the day, it's audio. It's a hobby. If it ain't fun, find something that is. Life is too short to get your panties in a wad about what someone else on this forum or any other says or thinks about things in general or you in particular.

BDT

[steveinaz]

The foremost shortcoming is the recordings. Most, if not all, of this stuff is being mixed from 2 channel masters. So, more than ever, you are at the mercy of an engineer. There are other format issues but that's the huge one.

Bravo. This is very frustrating.

When I hear beautiful redbook CD recordings I wonder why they all can't sound that way.

[TroyD]

Well, it's like any other new technology.....out of the gate it's not even NEAR being at it's potential. In many cases, the older technology performs at a higher level until the bugs are worked out.

In THIS case, I will always see the software as being the limiting factor simply because in the way it was originally recorded.

BDT

[Midnite Mick]

Bravo. This is very frustrating.

When I hear beautiful redbook CD recordings I wonder why they all can't sound that way.

Ditto

[heiney9]

Bravo. This is very frustrating.

When I hear beautiful redbook CD recordings I wonder why they all can't sound that way.


Yep, the recording process is THE single most important factor in realizing how good recorded music can sound. Many of the poor recordings stem from two thought processes. A) Engineers are taking short cuts and don’t really know how to construct the proper mix. B) Many engineers either don’t care about high fidelity or are under extreme pressure form the record label to “bang” something marginal out to keep costs down.

Here’s is my best example:

Been a long time Led Zeppelin bootleg collector. The 2 most recent live releases which includes the DVD have been available on various semi-professional and amateur recordings for approx. 20 years. The Holy grail was to find some of these blistering performances in what one would consider audiophile quality. The Royal Albert hall audio has always been available as a somewhat butchered FM recording. Well, I’m not going to go into detail on every recording, but How The West Was Won has been avail in several different versions including soundboard snippets and well as a great 3D audience recording. All those years we never ever believed (as Zep collectors) that any of this stuff would ever be discovered. We were told over and over that no professional recordings of the band were ever recovered from the iron fists of Peter Grant who was paranoid enough to destroy these types of recordings after deciding they were of no use at the time.

Fast forward to 2000-01 and it leaks that a warehouse of archival tapes is discovered. Someone (probably low on the totem pole) was going thru this somewhat abandoned warehouse and came across boxes and boxes of almost illegibly marked tapes. The powers that be were notified and thus started a 2 year process of restoring 30+ year old recordings which were left completely abandoned. Knowing what was originally involved, and the history behind these tapes and then reading the chronology of what monumental tasks and time it took to resurrect these recordings, I’m constantly amazed at how good the end product is.

My point to this long winded ramble is the technology is now there to take the worst cared for recording’s, and what was recorded on somewhat primitive machines and not intended for commercial release, and make a multi-channel presentation as well as a 2 channel performance that is very very acceptable. It took a lot of time, effort and good ‘ole sweat to get it done right. If only we could get that kind of commitment for recordings of today. So many of the independents know how to do it right. I’m so tired of current pop recordings.

H9

[F1nut]

Yeah Mark, we all know that you and I have parted as friends and your dislike for the way I do things. That you think you've become better than and somehow risen to the top of the heap. Whatever.


I've had some great offline dialogue with JohnK and you'd be suprised how knowledgable he is when it comes to audio. I used to get annoyed when he posted his opinion and eventually sent him an email about something unrelated, and began a grown up conversation. I don't agree with everything he says either, but you don't see me pounding him everytime he posts, but you will see F1Nut.


So, you'd rather see a noobie (the ones he targets) believe the mis-information that he posts? I don't see that as doing anyone any favors, but hey, that's just me.


Aside from wishing folks Happy Birthday, saying vintage gear sucks, saying HT sucks, saying AVR's suck, saying 5.1 music sucks, etc etc....I'm not sure what positive influence you even have here Jesse. Oh wait, you're the self proclaimed Flea Market policeman, riding a horse called Common Sense.


That's a load of crap and you know it, including your comment about the FM. There's plenty going on there that I never say a word about as many others here do a very good job of patroling it. There was once a time when you patroled the FM with a vengeance, but now it's just a place for you peddle your wares under the pretense of passing on a good deal. In fact, that's pretty close to the only area you post in these days. Is that what you call having a positive influence?


Just out of curiosity, please expound on MY "pretentious" posture, as I would love to hear an example. I took a break from this forum because I started to dislike the rhetoric that was spewed as fact and definitive opinion, sometimes from my own mouth. Maybe that was just me, just my personal hangup, but I didn’t want to contribute to it any longer. If I couldn't be positive and helpful, there was no need for me to be posting anymore.


Is your last post a good enough example because it works for me.


If the end user can’t exercise common sense, than what’s the point. The more I enjoy and read about this hobby, the more I find misleading and fundamentally flawed. This hobby is challenging and thought provoking, and that's what it should be.


I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I always though this hobby should be fun. Trying to seek out info from the ends of the world and analyze every last detail can take it's toll, you know?


It used to be really fun, and it changed for me, so I removed myself from the issue and immersed myself into other hobbies.

And yet, here you are. I hope you enjoy your new hobbies as much as you once enjoyed this one, I mean that.


I, unlike you, try to experience gear and pick up pieces that are of interest to me. I like the idea of vintage gear in particular, within reason, but you poo poo it all the time. You also rag on AVR’s, and they all suck and clip….what a generic, uneducated comment. AVR’s exist that have no issues, you’re just so close minded on 2CH that you wouldn’t really know anyways. Really, since you have no HT, and never have to my knowledge unless you count the early 90's, how can you really even comment? A store demo? LOL.


Odd comment considering that I own vintage gear. Some of it's good, some of it isn't. It's no different than new gear in that aspect. As for AVR's, you're twisting things around to suit your needs. I rag on them, they all clip? No Mark, I answer the question posted by many as to why their AVR shuts down when cranked or why they keep frying tweeters. What would you tell them? What would you know about what I know, we really haven't spoken in a year. And what's so wrong with store demo's? Sure it's not like having it in your house, but it's the only way some people can listen to it. Not everyone can afford to, nor has the time or the interest to drag home every piece of gear on the planet.


My purpose is to help me gain more knowledge and get a feel for what to actually listen for and enjoy myself in the process. Why would you not want to experience something? Just out of close minded thought process? What do you do?


We're not that different there. However, the methods may be.


You, unlike myself, choose to modify and solidify yourself into a certain aspect of hi-end audio and SDA worship. You own high end gear, no doubt, and have done amazing things in the mods dept, in particular the Jolida mod, but I don’t subscribe to that idea. I find a benefit but not a real reason/neccesity in the end. You bought your way into high end and your so high brow now, it wouldn't matter if something cheaper sounded better, you wouldn't own it based on price alone.


Yeah, like I have the best of everything. What an ignorant comment. I've got stuff here that's probably not worth more than $50.00 that I enjoy, so pfffft on that theory.


IMO, you're the biggest first impression ******* on this forum, bar none. It's a real shame because your offsite personality is solid and your really interesting to talk to in a localized enviroment. How you pull a 180 in regards to your conduct here amazes me.


Look in the mirror.


Aside from running off new, albeit some are clearly lame, members, ragging on current members’ gear, being the resident “Flea Market Savior” and wishing Happy Birthday to folks, what do you contribute exactly?

Oh nothing, absolutely nothing. :rolleyes:

[zombie boy 2000]

So many of the independents know how to do it right. I’m so tired of current pop recordings.

H9

Right on H9:)
The three most dreaded words in my universe are "major label debut" for precisely the reasons you listed.

[F1nut]

Joey, I'll spinkle some sugar around just to make you feel better.

BTW, don't mistake advice for threats.

Have a blissfully nice day.

[Joey_V]

Joey, I'll spinkle some sugar around just to make you feel better.

BTW, don't mistake advice for threats.

Have a blissfully nice day.

I'm not going to drag it out on this thread as it does not serve any purpose to the discussion at hand, do what you feel like doing and go about your daily business, I could care less.


So, for me, it's not that I'm philospophically opposed to multi-channel, I just think the execution of it, so far, isn't where it needs to be.
BDT
I definitely agree with you on this one. So far, I dont "think" that multichannel is executed well in most cases.

However, I'm sure there are some that are very well executed, from what I have read and hear.

I just wish I had, at my disposal, a reference multichannel setup to really validate my opinions to myself.

[hearingimpared]

I have my two channel rig so I can listen to music. I am building a higher end HT system in my media room and a lesser one in my living room to watch movies. I never considered seriously listening to music with multi-channel.

I am however looking forward to hearing the DSOTM & Jazz at the Pawnshop SACDs in multi-channel for two different reasons. DSOTM is lots of sound effects that I think would shine in 5.1. JATP I think will shine with 5.1 because of the natural room ambience and din recorded. This of course is all speculation.

[TroyD]

However, I'm sure there are some that are very well executed, from what I have read and hear.

I just wish I had, at my disposal, a reference multichannel setup to really validate my opinions to myself.

Well, here's the thing though.....can the outlay in expense be justified by, at the most, a handful of recordings?

Honestly, most pop music is dreck regardless of the number of channels. For the most part classical music, the high water mark has been set in terms of performances years ago not to mention, most labels classical inventory is primarily limited to rereleasing performances that are 30-40 years old.

So, in my case, the software issue is a tough one to overcome.

Also, the last thing I want to do is insert myself in this brouhaha....but, Joey, lemme point out here: Yes, Jesse fired the first cannonball across the bow here. That said, you've done a pretty credible job of keeping it alive. Now, if you want to be confrontational (which I don't necessarily have a problem with as I do from time to time. There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal buttmunch) but if that's not the case, you've made your comment. Let it be. As I see it, the comment about JohnK was unneccessary as that makes you come off as you accuse Jesse of being, an overzealous enforcer. Just food for thought.

BDT

[Joey_V]

Well, here's the thing though.....can the outlay in expense be justified by, at the most, a handful of recordings?

BDT

That's the other part of the equation... whether it is worth it. To some, as evident on audiogon, multichannel is worth it so much so that they go all out in not only their mains, but also their rears and center. I guess, it's all relative and remains truly dependent on one's budget and financial well-being.

To me, I dont have the means to go reference multichannel. I'm barely even making my way to "complete" my 2ch rig to worry about multichannel.

[TroyD]

Well, it was sort of a loaded question.

I think the answer is a resounding no. There isn't a library of performances to merit it yet. Just because the people are buying the gear doesn't mean that the format is really that mature. Audio is a profit driven industry so more channels equals more money. The fact that the software isn't there yet is inconsequential in that particular equation.

Off the top of my head, the only thing that would even slightly interest me is the RCA Living Stereo catalog. Most were recorded, at the time, in three tracks. RCA was hedging thier bets that the move from mono to stereo might actually wind up being a three channel standard, which I think is pretty righteous.

BDT

[reeltrouble1]

Whether it be multi-channel music or board posts.

Well, Nobody likes their Baby called Ugly.

I HAVE personally been the beneficiary of many kind acts by the membership, too many to mention as I would certainly leave someone out, really its that many and several have posted in this thread, you know who you are and I appreciate each of you, most are of course the more senior members. Not the least of these is Jesse, he has long been a stellar member, helping many. Indeed it pains to see guys I knew once to be so close now so far apart, but it happens and we will march on. Funny how this place gets inside some of us. But remember its only some of us where the hobby passion burns so hard.

As far as K, well, most who come here spouting the "everything sounds the same doctrine, wires don't matter, all cd sources are equal, etc. etc. etc. have in my years received the same sort of welcome. Yes, I believe him to be an Anti Hi-Fi audio insurgent, adding nothing to our community, seeking out newbies to "set" them straight with his viewpoint. I also believe the membership in a general sense does not buy into this opinion, is far more knowledgeable and depend much more on there actual experience in audio. Further, suspecting any attempt to legitamize such an audio viewpoint is most likely based upon some agenda having very little to do with audio.

Joey and Jesse do not like each other, this is news? Hash it out, its not the first squabble and wont be the last. And like BDT said, well, the hubbub breaks up the day. Joey, you sure do have some nice pieces and one day I suspect your going to have it all.

I am off to the Shed to listen to some new music I received today.

RT1--out

[reeltrouble1]

Well, it was sort of a loaded question.

RCA was hedging thier bets that the move from mono to stereo might actually wind up being a three channel standard, which I think is pretty righteous.

BDT

+1 BDT

[heiney9]

Follow this very simple acronym. K.I.S.S. I think to a large degree this holds true for a stellar 2 channel system. Start introducing to many variables and the original intent get obscured.

H9

K.I.S.S.= Keep It Simple Stupid

[TroyD]

Absolutely....quality over quantity. That applies to number of channels, number of watts....hell just about anyting, I suppose.

BDT

[TroyD]

Excellent post, Tedwick (not the one where you agree with me, that's a given ;))

My sentiments exactly.....

BDT

[pblanc]

If one only listened to music I don't think one could justify the additional expense, since there are relatively few recordings that make full use of the multichannel format. But home theater is an entirely different kettle of fish. There virtually every "recording" sounds better in multichannel. and most folks don't just use their speakers to listen to music.

[Joey_V]

Absolutely....quality over quantity. That applies to number of channels, number of watts....hell just about anyting, I suppose.

BDT

That brings another thing... if it's this hard to get 2 channels to work perfectly in a room, getting 5 speakers to work perfectly with adequate space is damn near impossible then.

Simple is better.

[hearingimpared]

Follow this very simple acronym. K.I.S.S. I think to a large degree this holds true for a stellar 2 channel system. Start introducing to many variables and the original intent get obscured.

H9

K.I.S.S.= Keep It Simple Stupid

Gee I thought it was Keep It Simple Sweetheart!!! :p

[shack]

Excellent post, Tedwick

My sentiments exactly.....

BDT

Same here. Life goes on. I think I'll go back to my "I don't care" attitude.

[F1nut]

Actually, Jesse, it is you who should grow up. What with your PM threats of "you dont know who you're messing with" and what not. I think it's safe to say that we all have graduated elementary school and we need not these playground threats and bullies.

Especially when you take into account that all we're talking about is audio for goodness sakes man. This isnt exactly a make/break topic we have going on here, so unnecessary roughness need not apply.

I really dont see why you have to walk around the forum with a rod up your ass the whole time.

Again, just my opinion.

Actually, the PM I send you addressed as "Advice" is as follows, "You're screwing with the wrong guy, my friend." Now, you're the one who took it as a threat and that's on you, not me. But, the fact you've twisted it around in your post to make it seem as a threat just goes to your character or should I say, lack of. A fact that isn't going un-noticed by a great number of folks here. So, in the future if you're going to try and I emphasize try, to make me look bad at least get your ducks lined up in a row and do not misquote me. Of course, if you were a man you'd have known that, but as it stands you're still wet behind the ears, hence my advice, which you obviously chose to ignore.

Now that, that's been cleared up, let's move on to the real reason you posted your original comment in this thread. It had nothing to do with what I said to K, rather you saw a chance to take a shot at me. How do we know that, you ask? Simple, you admitted to not knowing the history behind K, myself and the forum. That huge mistake came back to bite you in the ass, but good. If you want to attack someone, you'd better have done your homework.

Now, you call it youthful excitement or something close to that and that's all fine and dandy, but you come across as an name dropping, price quoting, and self centered person as just about every post you make has a referral to you or your gear in it. If that's the way you want to be, fine, but you need to own it. I have no problem owning the fact that I can be blunt as I always have been and always will be. If you or someone else doesn't like me because of that, you can always put me on ignore or you can confront me as you have done. However, I will respond as my history here will show and I rarely back down. More importantly, if you had done your homework, you'd know that there's a lot more to me than blunt posts.

Have a nice day.

[cstpeter]

F1nut, I don't know you from Adam, but I've respected your opinions ever since I've been hanging around these parts. That said, I think you're way off with this one, and frankly, not cool to purport that you're "in the know" with all your PM's and "from what I hear" bull**** about Joey. Not cool.

Again, much respect to you, Mr. 11,000 posts, but I've had the pleasure of meeting Joey in person, and I couldn't disagree more with your sentiments. Not sure what your beef is, but stop the holy-than-thou-because-I-post-on-Club-Polk nonsense. Go get laid dude.

--Chris St. Peter

p.s. Please don't send me a PM saying "You don't know who you're messing with." Not sure how you "twist" that one. Not cool F1.

[F1nut]

Chris, thank you for your thoughts, they are duly noted. And thanks for the get laid advice, but not to worry, I do ok there.

I must say I'm a little confused about this one, "from what I hear", where did I actually say that?

Also, not to worry, I won't send you a, "You don't know who you're messing with." PM as I never sent that one. Would you mind if I sent you the, "You're screwing with the wrong guy, my friend." one? :D:p ;)

BTW, nice set up.

Jesse

[cstpeter]

F1, let me first say we agree on the getting laid part. I think it's even better than audio. If we could combine the two, well then, there'd be no reason for this little squabble. That said:

With respect to the "from what I hear" quote: I'm not gonna use the quote feature and try to cite you, but that's one of your main points from your previous posts, if I understand correctly (which I may not, but I'm pretty sure I do). You're trying to say you're not alone in your opinions about another member. If I had a friend that pulled that, I'd call them out on that nonsense.

I'm getting the feeling you like to play semantics and "show me when I said that" games (and poorly, I might add). Look at the gist of your statements on this post.

F1, again, I don't want to start **** with you (probably too late for that). And to all the F1 friends out there, I mean no disrespect. Just calling out what I see as stupid.

EDIT: Took out statements that were uncalled for on my part. Jesse, I respect your candid opinions, and always have. Hope to meet you sometime and discuss who defined grunge, Nirvana or Pearl Jam.

[F1nut]

Well Chris, in that case you'll have to call Joey out for the same reason. Perhaps not from this thread, but others.

Actually, I'm not playing semantics with you, just so you know.

Goodnight, sleep tight.

Edit: Roger that and agreed.


Hope to meet you sometime and discuss who defined grunge, Nirvana or Pearl Jam.


I look forward to that. :)

[TheReaper]

To add my -2 cents worth: There are people who come to this forum with budget systems. For them, John K's advice can be appropriate. I also give him props for hanging in there.

As for the 2 channel vs multi-channel. I don't think I have a good multi-channel music mix (I only have concert DVDs). But I live in an apartment, so I normally listen at lower volume levels. So I will frequently turn off my center channel and bump the surrounds down a notch, and then listen to 2 channel music in PLIIx Movie. This adds a fuller sounding ambience to the music in my situation.

[W WALDECKER]

To add my -2 cents worth: There are people who come to this forum with budget systems. For them, John K's advice can be appropriate. I also give him props for hanging in there.

As for the 2 channel vs multi-channel. I don't think I have a good multi-channel music mix (I only have concert DVDs). But I live in an apartment, so I normally listen at lower volume levels. So I will frequently turn off my center channel and bump the surrounds down a notch, and then listen to 2 channel music in PLIIx Movie. This adds a fuller sounding ambience to the music in my situation. John K seeks attention and we give it to him in spades, i am fairly confident that is the reason that he posts here......two channel for music is the only way to go as far as i am concerned, if you have good synergy between your electronics and loudspeakers i think it is the closest thing there is to having live performers in your listening room.thanks....WCW III

[TroyD]

F1nut, I don't know you from Adam, but I've respected your opinions ever since I've been hanging around these parts. That said, I think you're way off with this one, and frankly, not cool to purport that you're "in the know" with all your PM's and "from what I hear" bull**** about Joey. Not cool.

Again, much respect to you, Mr. 11,000 posts, but I've had the pleasure of meeting Joey in person, and I couldn't disagree more with your sentiments. Not sure what your beef is, but stop the holy-than-thou-because-I-post-on-Club-Polk nonsense. Go get laid dude.

--Chris St. Peter

p.s. Please don't send me a PM saying "You don't know who you're messing with." Not sure how you "twist" that one. Not cool F1.

Just give the pot a little stir....since you haven't actually met F1 and are basing your opinions off what's here and so forth.......isn't that about the same as what you are accusing F1 of?

You know, there are always people who like and dislike people. For any point of view, you can find people who subscribe to it. So why the need for a pigpile just to keep **** going? Unless, like me, you like to stir the pot....what point does the add on post serve? Joey and F1 are at odds, ok, so let it be that and let it die. It's the folks who like to pile on afterwards who keep this crap brewing.

BDT

Just a thought.

[Polk65]

I read into what F1nut posts a little more than 1/2 the time and have to say that his suggestions are based not on personal opinion but rather fact and experience.

[RuSsMaN]

I think a lot of us could 'dial it back' a little in certain areas.

I'll be critical of only myself here, I used to jump newbies, police the FM, and argue with people who didn't agree with my viewpoints (which are the right viewpoints btw). I found that by not doing it, or at least taking the intensity down a few notches, better represents myself, Polk Audio, and the boards in general.

I'm all for a good debate, or a stern warning - but 95% of time the energy expended on simply nonsensicle topics or posts is ludicrous at best. That, and the elementary schoolyard attitude that runs rampant is just plain silly, and while I used to be a major player in such antics, I try to avoid them like the plague.

We are all here for one reason, Polk Audio products. At the end of the day, the guy with 15 posts and a pair of M20's deserves the same respect as a guy with 15,000 who has been purchasing Polk speakers for 25 years.

Everyone needs to remember that this is not our board. It is Polk Audio's, and what we do here reflects on them, as much as it does ourselves.

Cheers,
Russ

[TroyD]

Good post, broham.

Guilty as charged.

BDT

[reeltrouble1]

Guilty as charged.

Let it Be Known.

For ExtraOrdinary Service and Dedication to the Pursuit of all things Audio the Club Polk Membership has been Pardoned.

RT1

[pblanc]

Oh damn, just when things were getting good...

[warlocks1]

Wow, what a thread.
I have met some of the people in this thread. Jesse, Mark and Russ and others. Both Jesse and Mark have helped me in person with my "hobby" and it sucks that have parted company. I listened to Jesse's 2.3Tl's and met Mark in a parking lot some 5 years ago selling him some speakers (I have no idea what they were) and through the great work he did for Polkfest. They loved talking about the "hobby" (obsession) and you could see the joy in their faces. Both of them are very responsilble for my growth. I have been to both their houses and felt very welcome. I have no knowledge of what came between them, but it SUCKS that it has happened. Russ has sent me gear for a fraction of the cost and offered advice. I have met great people through this forum; Stong Bad (John), Emilyn (Mark), (I own most of his old equipment), and Madmax (Chuck) to name a few through this forum and these people are mainly responsible for what Polk Audio Forum has become and I love what it is today. I probably would never had met some great people had it not been for Mark and Jesse.
Jesse can be a hard ass, but I don't believe he would hurt a fly. Mark will open his house to anyone. They are two of the most generous people I have ever met.
I feel like Polk Audio Forum is like an AA meeting for us audio geeks and I am afraid of where this forum is headed. Too many threads end in bickering and fighting. I don't remember this occurring in the distant past.
I beg all of the senior folks to remember this is a great Forum and hobby because of you. We value and welcome your advise, but it hurts to see the senior memebers fighting amongst themselves.
Everyone has faults, we don't need to point out everyone of them.
Jesse, Mark and Russ didn't ask to be leaders of this forum, but they are and they need to act like it. Please keep your differences to yourselves or handle them privately.
Try to remember the joy you had discovering this dreadful hobby.
Peace, Jeff

[hearingimpared]

Try to remember the joy you had discovering this dreadful hobby.
Peace, Jeff


Dreadful hobby . . . hey you can't say that about my hobby, meet me out back of school at 3:00!!! :mad:


PS: bring a couple of LPs & CDs.:D :p

[marly421]

F1nut. I hate this guy, I assume most people do. IMO he's hate filled, mean and an ugly person. I turned him OFF several years ago. I feel better.

[F1nut]

I find it amazing how short some folks memories are. Not long after you joined I answered many questions you had and you thanked me. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=222825#post222825

Now, you take my comments out of context and for no damn good reason decide to try and be a wise-ass too. Pfffft.......

Oh yeah, 37 posts in 2 years.....you're a huge asset around here. :rolleyes:

Now this explains it all, Occupation:Law
In that case, a big double FU(K YOU to you, the horse you rode in on and the colonel that sent you. Sue me, you schmuck.

Up to 49 now, still working on the asset thing I see. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, I feel much better than you do....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Joey_V]

Ayiyiyi....

[madmax]

F1nut. I hate this guy, I assume most people do. IMO he's hate filled, mean and an ugly person. I turned him OFF several years ago. I feel better.

Don't forget to kick your puppy too.

You guys are all off track here. Things have gone to **** since the victrola lost favor.

madmax

[madmax]

Speaking of Victrola, they had their own sound. They can transform you into a different time and place. The old mono machines had their own sound too. Set one up in a room and you can enjoy music in a new and different way. Old vintage rigs have their own sound as well. Takes me back to the classics.

Modern two channel has replaced these old antiques because it allows for a true performance with little of its own sound shining through.

Multichannel? Material mastered well for multichannel becomes its own sort of art form. It is not a standard audiophile performance that it excels in. What it does excel in is creating a fantasy place created by the mix which you can explore. Not putting it down because when called for by the media it can be quite exciting.

With that said I will put it next in line after vintage rigs with 2 channel being the standard for audiophile sound.

madmax

[RuSsMaN]

Silvertone Chuck, Silvertone.

[ben62670]

I had a Thomas Edison here at my place for a while. When someone said crank it up it really meant crank it up. It was enjoyable to listen to a piece of history. And it work when the hurricanes knocked out the power too.


And thats why I think one channel is better than 2

[treitz3]

I did try and try and try and really think than 2 channel is better for music to ME. Sometimes like me the efects from mch BUT the image from the FRONTS is really better. Now, I am thinking buy another amp to another pair of fronts and another SW to FULL the FRONT stage with real 2.1 sound x 2. That is better than bi-amp....I mean bi-amp and bi-speakers and bi-woffer...:D

AND No surrounds.

I have that setup on my rig and it works wonders! Dual-amped / Dual speakered, with sub. Sweet sounds!

Not a big fan of multi-channel here......think I'll slide out now.

[Tequila]

Ah, ah, ah...Thats right¡¡¡

Now Treitz3 are in the DOUBLE STEREO team:D

[treitz3]

I had a little fun assembling this. You may find this of interest.....

http://www.putfile.com/treitz3/images/84795

The synergy achieved is unreal. I'm happy.:D

[treitz3]

I just read this whole thread, and got a little dis-enheartened. F1nut is a friend of mine and a damn good one at that.

Instead of confronting him, learn from him! He's a good man, and I thank him for his generosity in helping others seek there own version of audio nirvana.

Does he get paid to do this. No.

It's a passion....just be thankful that he is vocal about his knowledge. That is all.

[ESavinon]

F1nut. I hate this guy, I assume most people do. IMO he's hate filled, mean and an ugly person. I turned him OFF several years ago. I feel better.


Your feelings are yours,your opinion is yours too But don't think that you can ASSume what people think or feel about f1nut or any member of this forum.

F1nut a highly respected member of this forum and i for one will not tolerate in silence anyone writing such a condescending, mean full sentence regardless of your opinion of such person.

[madmax]

All this talk of multichannel is making me want to set up an old fashioned mono system. (Thats stereo but without the "added" spatial information, true hard core old school audiophile stuff). Your room and speaker positioning is it. Takes away the mixing tradeoffs completely. I wonder if anyone does this these days?
madmax

[heiney9]

All this talk of multichannel is making me want to set up an old fashioned mono system. (Thats stereo but without the "added" spatial information, true hard core old school audiophile stuff). Your room and speaker positioning is it. Takes away the mixing tradeoffs completely. I wonder if anyone does this these days?
madmax

I bet Ken S. could comment on this. I'm sure he's familar with this "old school" method.

H9

[heiney9]

I also occasionally listen the Beatles mono mixes. But I somehow don't get the same feeling. It certainly would be something that you'd have to get used to since stereo is so familar.

[hearingimpared]

All this talk of multichannel is making me want to set up an old fashioned mono system. (Thats stereo but without the "added" spatial information, true hard core old school audiophile stuff). Your room and speaker positioning is it. Takes away the mixing tradeoffs completely. I wonder if anyone does this these days?
madmax

Don D'Alfonso of Hearthedifference.com has a third turntable rig that is set up as a mono rig and has quite a selection of mono records.

[madmax]

I'll start a thread on this when I get a chance. I've listened to mono lps here and there and with my setup and they really suck. I'm sure the system needs to be set up using a totally different mindset than we currently have. I'm getting excited about this new system already! Mono, the final frontier... :)

madmax

[hearingimpared]

Mono, the final frontier... :)

madmax

The first and last?

[Tequila]

Freitz3: Congratulations¡¡¡¡

I have something like that: Rti8 down and Rti6 up RIGHT, and the same LEFT. 4 speakers and 4 MB Outlaw, IS incredible. 2 receivers Marantz and SW505.:D

[Ricardo]

How did I miss this thread up to now, I don't know. I would apologize to Tequila for the hijack, but I guess it's too late for that; disculpa hermano ;)

I am really a new member here compared to the majority, and I've received lots of help from old and new members; I enjoy hanging out here, I do my best to help when I feel I can, I've learned A LOT (only a couple of years into audio), have bought a few bargains, given back a bit, and I really see this place as a family.

Having said this, I hate when things get rough, specially when people that have been friends get so bitter. I've never met Jesse, but for some weird reason I know he is a great guy, lots of knowledge, and also willing to help out anyone; unfortunately I also think he enjoys being an a$$, and he knows how to do it. I will meet you some day and I'm sure we'll get along, over a beer, rum, or even root beer ;).
I did meet Mark, just last week, and he is a great guy; from what I remember on my first days on this forum, he also knows how to be an a$$, and also enjoyed being one; it seems that he has taken a different approach now. The one thing that I don't like about Mark is that last Friday when we met he said that he didn't do the chaps on the first date...damn. ;)

I guess you guys could care less about what I think or say, but it is sad to see these kind of dicussions in the family. Maybe I'm totally wrong and you just enjoy it? Whatever; just my $ 0.02. It's just not cool to see this on the forum.

Love ya.

[dorokusai]

We both have a love for this forum regardless of the personal issues.

I think Jesse is a very nice man and I know you would enjoy, actually WILL enjoy meeting him in Chicago. Bring your finest local Root Beer and your golden.

[treitz3]

I think Jesse is a very nice man and I know you would enjoy, actually WILL enjoy meeting him in Chicago.
What's goin' on in chick-a-go?

[dorokusai]

Chicagofest 2007 (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45956)

Georgia Polkfest 2007 (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48551)

[treitz3]

TXS. I'll be sure to see all of you there! Not at Chicago, but Georgia!

[Dean guitar pla]

Unless music is recorded in the studio in more than two channels it's only natural to play it through two speakers. If you're playing media that only contains two channels of music and yet you're playing it through five or more speakers, it's up to the processor or receiver to basically make something up and decide how to distribute things. IMO when it comes to listening to music, less is more. Two ears, two channels, two speakers

Well said!

Some lp's were recorded in quad but the bulk are two channel

Surround systems are great for movies but I personally do not like them for music