Subwoofer Plate Amp Opinions

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

I am debating between two plate amps for my VMPS subs.

Both of them have the crossover defeat that I need.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-806

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=4669957.25707&pid=452

To me the, Kiega would be the BEST match - considering the sub is 300 watts RMS and the Dayton is 500 watts. However I know watts mean nothing.

The Kiega is Class AB and the Dayton is Class G. Apparently Class G has excellent bass control - I do not know.

What are your thoughts?

[RuSsMaN]

Don't get a plate amp.

[tryrrthg]

Don't get a plate amp.
Ditto what he said.

You can probably find a used Crown K1 or K2 amp (no cooling fans) for the price of two plate amps. throw in a Paradigm X-30 crossover if you need one. The crown would be a much better amp and a much better investment than a plate amp.

[appadv]

Well, I asked my electrical engineering professor...

The Dayton is a better match because it has servo controlled output, which means that it receives feedback from the woofer and delivers output accordingly.

Class G also provides better bass control than other types of amplifiers. They are extremely efficient and have low THD for subwoofer applications.

Edit: I can provide some kind of a schematic to describe what I am talking about. Basically Class G is a better choice over a class AB amp for subs. (Verified by my professor and also two electrical engineering textbooks)

[McLoki]

Edit: I can provide some kind of a schematic to describe what I am talking about. Basically Class G is a better choice over a class AB amp for subs. (Verified by my professor and also two electrical engineering textbooks)
Perhaps has less issues with subs due to their inherant design, but I would throw a BS flag for any banket statment that states class of amp is better than another just due to the way that class works.

I have never thought of replacing my amp (that is currently running my sub) with a plate amp. I would love to hear my SVS compared to another 25-31 that is powered by a plate amp though. (opus - are you listening???)

Michael

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Getting a seperate amp and the seperate crossovers just isnt a very budget friendly method unfortunately. Atleast from what Ive seen. I definitely agree it would be a better method.

I really dont want to sink more than 500 total in the amps, shipped.

I need two channels, two crossovers, two phase switches, two crossover defeat switches with atleast 2 inputs.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

What about mounting the amps in an enclosure - away from the subwoofer to reduce its exposure to vibrations?

[dkg999]

Couldn't you just split the output of the Paradigm X-30 into each channel of the Crown amp to power both subs? I use an Outlaw ICBM that has dual sub outputs to cross-over the bass in my HT system to my two SVS subs. I've seen used X-30's go for $45 to $85.

[appadv]

Perhaps has less issues with subs due to their inherant design, but I would throw a BS flag for any banket statment that states class of amp is better than another just due to the way that class works.



To a large extent, Class G works better for subwoofer applicatons due to design, however I agree with you in sayiing that not all Class G amps are better than another just due to design...

From an engineering standpoint, Class G amps are extremely efficient, have very low distortion at low frequencies, and are quite responsive.

Now there are exceptions to the rule...

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

If I was running straight LFE - splitting one large amp would work best...

However, I am running right and left stereo subs. So I really need that versatility to mess with phase, crossover, etc etc.

[SLOCOOKN]

I would go one sub at a time. You might find you like the sound of the VMPS with just one sub. If you wanted to add the second sub later what a great option. You should give the sub every option to amaze you. The VMPS is a great sub and you will never know until you power it right.

Where is RUSsMan with his speach....Audio gear is a luxury....bla bla bal by the best and one up!!!!!!

Cmon' Trey do the right thing. My carver is 380 wpc and the vmps loves all the power!!!

[Early B.]

Don't get a plate amp.

Sid, didn't you hear what Russ said? Forget about a plate amp. Do it right or don't do it at all. I realize VMPS uses slightly modified PE plate amps, but you'll want better quality.

At least get a pro amp to power your subs along with an external crossover.

I went from a very good plate amp (Rhythmik Audio) to using a single channel on a pro amp (Behringer A500) and it was a huge leap in sound improvement.

[hoosier21]

Paradigm X-30 has stereo inputs and outputs for the high pass, the low pass signal is summed for 1 or 2 subs outputs. There is volume knob and a variable phase that controls sub 2 output. These are 100-120 or so used.

Add an amp and bingo.

Outlaw ICBM is good for crossover and it has a level adjustment also, no phase adjustments.

Russ

[jakelm]

I'm driving my SVS sub with a Rythmik Audio 350A plate amp. It sounds great.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/nonservo_product.htm

[Early B.]

I'm driving my SVS sub with a Rythmik Audio 350A plate amp. It sounds great.

I had the 250SE version. The pro amp sounds better for roughly the same cost. You can get a decent brand new pro amp for $169.

[Early B.]

What about mounting the amps in an enclosure - away from the subwoofer to reduce its exposure to vibrations?

I did that already. It didn't matter.

[jakelm]

I had the 250SE version. The pro amp sounds better for roughly the same cost. You can get a decent brand new pro amp for $169.

While I agree Early, I stil prefer the crossover and rumble filter built on the plate amp. And not rellying on the AVR. And the plate amp is on the sub, out of the way, another shelf is not needed.

[Early B.]

While I agree Early, I stil prefer the crossover and rumble filter built on the plate amp. And not rellying on the AVR. And the plate amp is on the sub, out of the way, another shelf is not needed.

Good points.

Sid is dealing with stereo subs for the purpose of improved sound quality. If he uses plate amps, he compromises the bass quality and defeats the purpose of what he's trying to achieve. If he were using the subs strictly for HT, it wouldn't be a big issue, but since Sid has elevated his game to much higher end gear, he needs to stay consistent and not get cheap all of a sudden with effin' plate amps. That's a step backwards. What's next, Sid -- Monster cables?

[SLOCOOKN]

While I agree Early, I stil prefer the crossover and rumble filter built on the plate amp. And not rellying on the AVR. And the plate amp is on the sub, out of the way, another shelf is not needed.

I use my avr filtering at 90 hrz. I have great results. I am very lucky. My avr has 2 sub out feeding into the TFM left and right. AudioQuest spk wire to the two subs in the same cabinet and it sounds great! I can control the sub level from a button on the avr remote is a plus. :)

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Dangit.

I knew I shouldnt have asked.

Grrrr.

Paradigm X30 and... hmm, maybe a Crown XLS amp.

[ledhed]

Look at the RBH sub amps. We got the 200 watt one with a sub for a stellar price (like $250). I believe you can defeat the crossover, has phase and looks really good :)

[jakelm]

Good points.

Sid is dealing with stereo subs for the purpose of improved sound quality. If he uses plate amps, he compromises the bass quality and defeats the purpose of what he's trying to achieve. If he were using the subs strictly for HT, it wouldn't be a big issue, but since Sid has elevated his game to much higher end gear, he needs to stay consistent and not get cheap all of a sudden with effin' plate amps. That's a step backwards. What's next, Sid -- Monster cables?

Early, I respect your opinion. But I disagree in the fact that he will compromise his sound quality with a plate amp. Plate amps are built for the soul purpose of a subwoofer. They are built to handle the demand of power a sub asks for. If he was shopping for mains (full range) speakers, then yes, no question. But for the sub, I believe a good plate amp works just as well, if not better, than a pro or home amp.

Phase might be another issue Sid may have. Especially with 2 subs at once. I dont think (I might be wrong) a pro amp has the capability to adjust phase. Unless you reverse the positive and negative.

But I stand by my original thought, seperate plate amps for seperate subs would do just fine.
Jake

P.S And there is nothing wrong with Monster cables,.....LOL..:D

[RuSsMaN]

Sid, I have an X-30 I can sell you..... ;)

[appadv]

Vr3MxStyler2k3,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a plate amp for this application. Although pro amps may provide better sound quality, it is too much trouble IMO to go through an external crossover.

The purpose of the plate amp is to provide flexibility in your setup, in which a crossover defeat, LFE direct in, etc. are available.

[RuSsMaN]

It's no trouble at all, it's one more set of interconnects. That's all.

[appadv]

I might be wrong, but the plate amps should be well matched to use in subwoofer applications. Why does using plate amps compromise the sound quality?

[Dennis Gardner]

Trey,

Work a deal with your manager to test some of the pro-audio gear that you sell on a daily basis, with your subs, once they arrive. No harm in asking.

DG

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Russ are you for real?

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

well, tommorow when I go into work I am going to check out the Crown XTi1000 and see how much fan noise it has.

if it isn't significant to me, Ill see about taking it home and giving it a go.

And the Paradigm X 30 for the crossover. Thanks Russ.

[tryrrthg]

well, tommorow when I go into work I am going to check out the Crown XTi1000 and see how much fan noise it has.

if it isn't significant to me, Ill see about taking it home and giving it a go.

And the Paradigm X 30 for the crossover. Thanks Russ.
Just keep in mind that you can always swap out the fans with fans that are much more quiet. I bought the pro amp that powers my sub used and the guy had already switched out the fans. They're pretty quiet now.

[hoosier21]

They're pretty quiet now.

What is pretty quiet?

When I used a pro amp, fan noise was a problem, so I am interested in these quiet fans.

[tryrrthg]

What is pretty quiet?

When I used a pro amp, fan noise was a problem, so I am interested in these quiet fans.
The fans are pretty quiet. You can still hear them but they are much quieter than the stock fans, or so I was told. I think you can even disconnect the fans if you wish because you're likely not running it as hard as it would be in the pro amp world...

I should also mention that my amp is in a closet away from the room where the HT is, so fan noise wouldn't be an issue anyway.

You can switch out the stock fans with quiet computer fans that are the same size, voltage and whatever else needs to be the same...

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

So I checked out the XTI amp today - the amp seems to be very quiet, the amp is variable speed and dosnt even turn on when the amp is at lower volumes.

So... shall see. But I traded in my bass amp, bass guitar, stand, book for the amp. So that worked out good.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

I plugged the amp up to a dual 18" yamaha subwoofer - turned it up for about 2-3 minutes next to clipping (no red lights) - I could not get that fan to turn on.

I think this will do! ;)

[kingkip]

I might be wrong, but the plate amps should be well matched to use in subwoofer applications. Why does using plate amps compromise the sound quality?

The rumble filter for one. If you want a true subsonic sub you don't want one. Also plate amps don't usually provide the head room that pros will give you. Usually they are rated like lower end receivers.

Don't get me wrong, they have their place, it's just not for this application.

[appadv]

Interesting. I have the rumble filter on my plate amp set at 25Hz, so it filters out everything below 25Hz to protect the sub. Today I tried it set at 18Hz, and I was hearing subsonic!

[GV#27]

Like Kingkip says the use of a hi-pass or rumble filter kinda defeats the purpose.However some plate amps have the option of using the hi pass filter to provide several db of boost that will actually usefully extend the bass response somewhat.
To work properly it is essential that the correct amount of boost be applied at the correct frequency.Some systems should NOT have any boost applied as it may push the driver beyond it's excursion limits,but some can benifit nicely with this bit of EQ.

[appadv]

Well...

Should I set my plate amp's subsonic filter to 18Hz or 25Hz? I have the sub calibrated at -3db lower than my mains, so it's far from being hot. I can't even tell if the sub is on or not!

[GV#27]

What sub are you using it with?

I would use the 18hz setting if you are not having an issues with the driver bottoming out.

[appadv]

A 15" Dayton Titanic MKIII Reference subwoofer in a 3.0 cu ft DIY enclosure.

I run the sub at very low levels, sometimes -6db lower than my mains (Definitive Tech BP10B), so no it does not bottom out.

[GV#27]

A 15" Dayton Titanic MKIII Reference subwoofer in a 3.0 cu ft DIY enclosure.

Nice:)

[soiset]

Interesting. I have the rumble filter on my plate amp set at 25Hz, so it filters out everything below 25Hz to protect the sub. Today I tried it set at 18Hz, and I was hearing subsonic!

eh?

Regarding your question of how an external amp can improve sound, there is one easy way: internal bracing. You can brace the walls of the cabinet from one side to the other, where you couldn't do that if a plate amp is there.

Also, I'm with Russman: an external pro amp is the way to go. For $500, I could get you some serious power (it's a lot more than I had to spend), and if you have bass management on your receiver/preamp, there is no need for a crossover. If you don't have that, get a pro stereo crossover, and bang, you're done. It's just too easy.

ETA: I can see radio ;)

[appadv]

oops - funny how I posted that.

I was hearing something from 18Hz-20Hz, though.