Twin Cities LSi owners, help!

[dane_peterson]

Okay, my LSi9s sound like crap. They're plugged into my AVR2807, and there's no dynamic range at all. Can someone come over and tell me if something's broken, of if it's just a lack of power? I'm afraid I'm not experienced enough to make that decision on my own.

[F1nut]

Did you just acquire the 9's? What is the power rating of your AVR and is it rated to drive 4 ohm loads?

[janmike]

Looks like F1nut nailed it. I beleive that Denon is 110 wpc into 8 ohms.

[heiney9]

Most likely your amplification or your lack of amplification is a problem. Maybe you could define "sounds like crap". That could mean anything. What speakers were you using before? The Lsi's are very accurate and open, perhaps you are used to a very "hot" top end and the Lsi's, while extremely detailed, are not in your face forward maybe it's just going to take a bit to get used to their signature.

Otherwise if you think the sound is way off start from the beginning with your receiver settings to make sure the settings are correct.

[McLoki]

Also are you disspointed with the sound from all sources? (movies, cd's, radio, etc.) How about a quickie review of what you had before and what you liked/didn't like about it and a quick review of what you hoped for when purchasing the LSi9's and what you ended up getting....

Michael

[dane_peterson]

All right guys, let me try to define what it sounds like the best I can:
To me, it just feels like there is no highs or lows. It's all a bunch of cloudy-sounding mids. Even at low volumes. I listened to several different CDs, all with the same verdict. This was while playing music in two-channel mode.

I then switched the 5 channel stereo, and the highs came out a little more from the LSiC. But still not quite as articulate as I was hoping. It just feels a little muffled or something. Lacking detail.

An interesting thing I found is when I switched to Tuner, with the white noise, there was a distinct difference of sound in the LSi9s. The sound was choppier, as if it wasn't getting a consistent feed. Now this could just be because the LSiC was receiving both channels, feeding a fuller sound. So I don't know. The radio sounded better, or rather, I couldn't find audio problems nearly as well.

Listening to the music channels on Comcast wasn't nearly as frustrating. But I really can't distinguish if it's just because I don't know what to listen for (as I'm used the the CDs I was playing)

I should note I was playing all the CDs through my PS3 with HDMI.

Before these, I had a DefTech system, and it sounded fine. BP7004s, CLR2500, and BPXs.

[zombie boy 2000]

Were they purchased new or used?

[dane_peterson]

Used.

[Ricardo]

I would vote for the lack of power; Denon's are not that good with 4 ohm speakers, plus the LSi line is power hungry...

[AndyGwis]

Isn't this where Cfrizz steps in and says "you need to get a 200 WPC amp for those LSis!!!!"

[heiney9]

Try running it in strictly 2 channel mode. It's probably a combination of the Denon's lack of power, new speakers,which probably sound a lot different than the old ones, and the fact that you are using a PS3 thru HDMI as your source. How do you have the 9's set up, placement, etc?

[Joey_V]

Make sure there are no EQ effects turned on in your receiver. Make sure it's just stereo and not prologic or something.

[cfrizz]

Hey at least I'm consistent!:D But since you said it I won't have to!:p

Dane & I already had this conversation in another thread, so why he is now starting a new thread saying that his speakers sound bad off of a 6ohm receiver is rather confusing!

Polk really does need to tell the distributers of their speakers to have their sales people tell the truth about how much power is needed to make these speakers sound great right out of the box & to save newbies from posting threads like this!

Isn't this where Cfrizz steps in and says "you need to get a 200 WPC amp for those LSis!!!!"

[AndyGwis]

I do like your consistency, and honestly felt this was the PERFECT situation to drop your motto / mantra / tag-line.

Adding separate amps to my original HT setup was the best / most fun thing I've done. It got the ball rolling in the right direction and helped me gain knowledge, experience, and all that other good stuff.

As to your other point about Polk teaching their distributors, many of the sellers that deal Polk gear don't sell separates and/or have very little knowledge about amps' pros, cons, etc. At least the guys at my local weeter don't seem to know anything, but they'll make stuff up all day long to get you to buy something. Honestly, I never owned anything but a HTIB and about a month after walking into Tweeter for the first time, I think I had already eclipsed their level of audio concepts knowledge.

[heiney9]

Polk really does need to tell the distributers of their speakers to have their sales people tell the truth about how much power is needed to make these speakers sound great right out of the box & to save newbies from posting threads like this!

With all due respect (I agree 100% w/ the power issue) there are other factors. For sh*t$ and giggles I ran my 9's off of a 35 watt/ch Luxman receiver I just got. It did alright, not a lot of volume or as much impact and detail as seperates but certainly (to those not used to seperates) not too bad, could have been better and certainly not what I'm used to.

I still say the settings are incorrect on the rec and the fact you are using a PS3 thru HDMI inputs is a big disadvantage. Plus I still think you are used to the Def Tech's sound signature. 9's need some breahting room as well, out from the wall and away from corners. Toed in slightly and about 6 feet apart or more.

But I still agree there is no replacement for good clean power and the Lsi's demand it to play at their best.

[dane_peterson]

Miss Frizz,
I know we've discussed the power thing, and I'm in the process of finding a good mate in that regard. This post is in no way a disregard of your input.
My concern lies in the fact that these speakers haven't even begun to resemble what decent sound should sound like. I've acheived more articulation from a $20 Walmart speaker. I'm simply trying to narrow it down to any other potential problems before I toss a bill at an amplifier.

Granted, the PS3 is probably not the ideal CDP. However, isn't this an SACD player? I would like to believe that it has an ability to reproduce audio at least somewhat accurately.

My hope here was that someone locally could either lend an ear to tell me what they're hearing, or maybe bring by some decent equipment to compare and contrast. There is definitely no question that the Denon is lacking... (by the way, it has been set in Direct/Stereo mode with the same disappointing results) I just want to feel at ease that it is the only bottleneck.

[cfrizz]

Hmmm maybe there is such a thing as break in for speakers.

[heiney9]

Miss Frizz,
I know we've discussed the power thing, and I'm in the process of finding a good mate in that regard. This post is in no way a disregard of your input.
My concern lies in the fact that these speakers haven't even begun to resemble what decent sound should sound like. I've acheived more articulation from a $20 Walmart speaker. I'm simply trying to narrow it down to any other potential problems before I toss a bill at an amplifier.

Granted, the PS3 is probably not the ideal CDP. However, isn't this an SACD player? I would like to believe that it has an ability to reproduce audio at least somewhat accurately.

My hope here was that someone locally could either lend an ear to tell me what they're hearing, or maybe bring by some decent equipment to compare and contrast. There is definitely no question that the Denon is lacking... (by the way, it has been set in Direct/Stereo mode with the same disappointing results) I just want to feel at ease that it is the only bottleneck.

Your welcome to come down to Rockford IL and listen to my 9's. I vacation in Hayward WI. Thats about a 6 hour drive and about 2-2.5 ouside of the Twin Cities. So I'm guessing about 8-9 hours for you to get here :D :p .

If they are brand new break-in does wonders for these, just a thought.

[mrbigbluelight]

If you have another receiver sitting around, try Heiney9's experiment.

You didn't hook up your LSI's with the Denon hot, did you, and perhaps short some wires in the process ?

[dane_peterson]

As mentioned above, I purchased these USED.

I don't have another receiver lying around, and no, everything was turned off when the speakers were connected.

[heiney9]

As mentioned above, I purchased these USED.

I don't have another receiver lying around, and no, everything was turned off when the speakers were connected.

Sorry but I'm at a loss. Just throwing obvious things out, but have you checked the jumpers on the back of the speakers? Make sure they are tight. Make sure positive and negative are hooked to the corresponding pos and neg on the receiver.

If you can in any way get another receiver to use that would really help. Make sure you don't have any funky output settings on the PS3 and make sure you've eliminated all inter-connect issues. It's just very possible the Denon just isn't cutting it or developed an issue between now and when you got rid of your Def Tech's.

Beyond that I'm just as stuck as you are. :(

[dane_peterson]

It honestly makes me feel better to hear someone else is as puzzled as I am. I'm truly not that ignorant.

I'm actually working on buying a pair of NEW LSi9s in Ebony right now, so when those arrive, I can eliminate one possible culprite. The cherries will then be put up for sale, either as fully functional, or with some weird inexplicable problem. Either way, they'll be priced pretty well.

[heiney9]

It honestly makes me feel better to hear someone else is as puzzled as I am. I'm truly not that ignorant.

I'm actually working on buying a pair of NEW LSi9s in Ebony right now, so when those arrive, I can eliminate one possible culprite. The cherries will then be put up for sale, either as fully functional, or with some weird inexplicable problem. Either way, they'll be priced pretty well.

Well that's a bit drastic :eek: . But certainly the used speakers could be the culprit. I'd check other stuff first, but I certainly can understand your frustration and the peace of mind having brand spanking new speakers.

[dane_peterson]

It was a purchase I was eventually going to make anyway... both the wife and I agree on ebony. (It matches our new chocolate-colored couches.) They'll be shipping out tomorrow, so should arrive sometime next week.

In the meantime, I'm going to continue to mess around with different possible solutions. Maybe hook up an optical cable to the receiver or something. But in the end, maybe it truly is just a lack of power... time will tell.

[cmy330go]

That amount of power should be plenty to make them sound decent. I have my 9's running on a 55w/ch tube integrated and am plenty happy with the results.

There has to be something more here. I would bet on a funky receiver setting or perhaps a source issue. Perhaps try tuning in a radio station to rule out a problem with the source.

You might also try putting your ear up the the tweeters to verify they are working. I did once see an LSi9 brand new out of the box that had a disconnected tweeter. Stranger things have happened.

Just keep trying different combos. You'll eventually find it.

EDIT: Also don't be too quick to dismiss the jumpers.

[danger boy]

do both of your 9's sound bad? if it's only one. then maybe you have the black and red wires on the wrong pos and neg terminals. just a thought. other than that, i can't really say what the problem might be.
even running 4ohm speakers off a recevier they should sound ok. and of course better with a nice big beefy amp.

[ohskigod]

[QUOTE=cmy330go]That amount of power should be plenty to make them sound decent. I have my 9's running on a 55w/ch tube integrated and am plenty happy with the results.

QUOTE]


100 watts solid state is a way different ballgame from 55 watts tube power (still dont know why :D ). My vote is on the power issue, and if your trying to get volume out of them powering the 9's with that reciever, its gonna sound bright as hell.

check the wiring top to bottom like has been suggested allready

[dane_peterson]

I did put my ears up to each individual driver, and they were all functioning. I even disconnected the jumpers and attached the speaker wire to the highs and lows individually to hear them better.

I don't think anything's wrong with the speakers. At this point, they're disconnected and awaiting sale on eBay anyway. When the replacements arrive, I'll be tearing up everything, and redoing all the wiring. The goal is to get an amp in the meantime anyway... wiring's going to get moved around.

Thanks for the help guys. I'll certainly track down the culprite eventually here.

[woofiepaws]

I had a similar problem with my LSi 25s. Roaring static coming out of th right side. Swapped speakers, still sounded aweful on the right. Turned out I had a loose connection at the right channel on the amp. It was the RCA socket on the amp iteself. Changed to tighter connections and the problem went away.

Steve

[woofiepaws]

Belay my last. I meant to say that the connection coming INTO the amp from the pre was loose. Sorry, not enough coffee on board yet.

Steve

[dane_peterson]

Update: I feel like a bad person, as I may have just sold a bad pair of LSi9s on eBay for more than I paid for them.

My new Ebony '9s came in tonight... just got them hooked up a few minutes ago. It definitely sounds better than it did with the other pair. However, I did go through and reconnect cables, and exchanged the PS3. Hopefully one of those things were the culprite.

Thanks to everyone who helped diagnose my problem. I have to say I'm sincerely satisfied with the sound these babies put out... can't wait till the amp arrives on Monday! :D

[MikeC78]

:confused: You have me thinking now...

I bought my full LSi rig off Ebay!:eek: I need to go see if something is wrong with them.

Mike