Monitor 5b's x-over upgrade w/pics

[heiney9]

I decided to start a new thread in the appropriate forum as a reference for those who want to see how it's done. This upgrade was very simple if only a bit time consuming. No special tools needed and anyone with a steady hand and basic soldering knowledge can do this. There is a minimum of dis-assembly required. I do however recommend pulling the drivers and the passive radiator, especially if you want to upgrade the internal wiring. It also gives you a chance to visually inspect the drivers for damage and/or correct parts. However there is enough length of wire to pull just the x-over out for upgrading.

These pictures and the basic procedure can be used as a reference for all the Monitor series x-over upgrades. Look here for a Polk schematic: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38755. It's also a good idea to pull the x-over and compare it to the schematic because Polk changed things on the fly many times. If you are in doubt or have any questions call Ken Swauger at Polk customer service and he will answer any questions.

I also recommend doing one x-over at a time so if you get confused or forget where something goes you have an unmolested one for reference. Polk used Black and Green for positive (+) and white for negative (-). I also wrote the polarity on the back of each tweet so as not to get confused upon reinstallation.

Also you will need to contour the leads on the caps and resistors to get them to fit properly. Be gentle especially where the leads exit the body of the part. They can be damaged but you really have to apply some pressure to damage them. Just a note of caution.

Once the x-over has been removed from the cabinet there are 4 plastic compression clips that attach the pcb to the terminal cup. Gently compress the tabs with pliers (needle nose work best) and detach the pcb from the terminal cup. The pcb can be folded over to work on removing and reinstalling the parts.

The new caps are substantially larger than the older ones so I removed the 2 original caps by snipping the leads close to the pcb. I did however make notes on a piece of paper. It appears some of the caps originally use were polarized, this makes no difference whatsoever and the new caps are (and should be) non-polarized.

Then I un-soldered the remaining part of the leads from the pcb. I did it in this order to do a mock up of the new caps because they are substantially larger and you need to think it out a bit for best fit.. The larger cap can hang over the pcb a bit w/o having any concerns about the terminal cup fit back into the cabinet. If it protrudes a lot you will have to angle the terminal cup a bit to get it to clear the cabinet. However there are no other clearance issues.

Removing and reinstalling the resistor is simple. The new resistor is longer than the original (if you are using Mills) so you need to contour the leads a little bit to get it to fit snuggly.

Here are the pics.

1-2) Old x-over with new red and black wiring
3) New parts from Parts Express
4) I left the wiring alone from the terminal cup to the pcb. Note: the gloppy glue from the factory. This is used to seal holes etc., since the cabinet needs to be absolutely air tight.
5) Action shot
6) Setting the new caps. See how huge they are?
7) New caps installed Note: The original resistor still in place
8) You can unclip the pcb, fold it over, and work the magic
9) You can let the large cap protrude over the side of the pcb w/o any difficulty refitting the terminal cup into the cabinet.
10) Newer generation 5b original x-over w/poly switch (small blue square part). I bought a single 5b for parts if I needed them.
11) New vs. Old x-over parts.
12-13) New and New x-over parts
14) a shot thru the passive radiator cut-out of the upgraded x-over re-installed in the cabinet.

The end

[jakelm]

Great job H9. Does your 5b's have peerless? If so...some think the peerless is too bright...in the 7's, 10's, and 5's. I found replacing the 2.7ohm with a 4.5ohm to be the best solution for me in my 10's (center) and 7's (mains). Do this only if you feel the speaker is not warm enough.

The trickiest part of the whole project, I found, is unsoldering and soldering back the copper wire coming from the underside of the xover from the main coil. But I see you dont have that same coil. So the 5's upgrade is even easier.

But that is an excellent write up, way to go H9.:D :)

[heiney9]

Great job H9. Does your 5b's have peerless? If so...some think the peerless is too bright...in the 7's, 10's, and 5's. I found replacing the 2.7ohm with a 4.5ohm to be the best solution for me in my 10's (center) and 7's (mains). Do this only if you feel the speaker is not warm enough.

The trickiest part of the whole project, I found, is unsoldering and soldering back the copper wire coming from the underside of the xover from the main coil.

But that is an excellent write up, way to go H9.:D :)

No, I have the sl2000 which is way to forward. I've never heard anyone comment that the peerless was bright. The peerless has a black cloth like dome with a hole in the center, correct? Be sure you aren't talking about the sl1000 which has a silver/alum bezel and many feel those are worse than the sl2000 (slightly).

I am looking for a way to make the tweeter a lot less forward. I know I can't fix the freq spike of the tweet, but if I could get it to sound less forward by using a different value resistor, I'm all ears.

I also had no reason to unsolder any of the copper inductor leads.

H9

[jakelm]

No, I have the sl2000 which is way to forward. I've never heard anyone comment that the peerless was bright. The peerless has a black cloth like dome with a hole in the center, correct? Be sure you aren't talking about the sl1000 which has a silver/alum bezel and many feel those are worse than the sl2000 (slightly).

I am looking for a way to make the tweeter a lot less forward. I know I can't fix the freq spike of the tweet, but if I could get it to sound less forward by using a different value resistor, I'm all ears.

I also had no reason to unsolder any of the copper inductor leads.

H9


I know what the peerless are. And the harshness was only in my center channel with peerless, I custom built with a 10a xover that had the 2.7ohm for the tweeter (which I replaced with a 4.5ohm). My 7b's with peerless already had the 4.5ohm and were much softer, so I rebuilt the 10a crossover with the 4.5ohm, it made a wonderfull difference, much more relaxed sound.

I dont think the harshness has as much to do with the tweeter used, rather the xover design.

Try my mod with the 4.5ohm. It will back off the tweeter and correct the spike. Try the mod, if you dont like it , you can always go back to original specs.

I'm just saying what worked for me.

[heiney9]

I dont think the harshness has as much to do with the tweeter used, rather the xover design.
.

The sl2000 has a +6 dB spike at approx 13 kHz. This is know and admitted fact by Polk. It's the design of the tweeter. This is the reason the sl2500 and sl3000 were introduced in later Polk models to correct the problem with the sl2000.

I will experiment with your mod and I appreciate the advise. :)

H9

[jakelm]

In my center design with the 10a xover, I had a similar spike with the peerless. Thats the only reason I dont think it had much to do with the tweeter. Once I changed the resistor value, spike with away.

When I first looked at the 10a xover, I wondered to myself why polk (when using the same tweeter) change the value of the resistor? I found it much brighter and harder to listen to compared to my 7's. So I did my experiment, and found it to work.

[schwarcw]

Nice work H9! I love these threads to see people's experience doing these mods. The mod's are challenging, fun and exciting. It give's you a sense of accomplishment and a better understanding of how the speaker works.

Did you install new binding posts? The Vampire's are about $20 per stereo pair. They are much more solid compared to the cheapo original Polk terminals.

Congrats and thanks for the pic's!

[engtaz]

Nice Work

engtaz

[george daniel]

Nice work H9! I love these threads to see people's experience doing these mods. The mod's are challenging, fun and exciting. It give's you a sense of accomplishment and a better understanding of how the speaker works.

Did you install new binding posts? The Vampire's are about $20 per stereo pair. They are much more solid compared to the cheapo original Polk terminals.

Congrats and thanks for the pic's!

Carl,, where are you getting/finding the vampires for twenty a pair?

[george daniel]

h-9,,is that a mills 12 watt? I ordered 2.7 ohm/5 watt .

[heiney9]

h-9,,is that a mills 12 watt? I ordered 2.7 ohm/5 watt .

The 12W is what I was able to get form PE, they don't carry the 5W. The schematic and the original are 5W so what you ordered for me is just perfect.

H9

[george daniel]

Just wanted to be sure,,upgrading crossovers,,kinda fun,,isn't it :)

[Jonesy]

Very nice heiney, thanks. Great pics. I am thinking I'll pull my x-overs before buying anything. I can't seem to nail which schematic applies and I think I've heard you reference the fact that the peerless in the 7b had an additional part somewhere. Thanks again for the documentation of your project.

[mhardy6647]

Those Solen caps are so big, the tuning of the box has probably been altered 'cause of the volume they displace.

;-)

[schwarcw]

Carl,, where are you getting/finding the vampires for twenty a pair?

George,

I bought them from the Parts Connexion. I looked on their website and they are now $28.72 a stereo set. I checked my receipts, and the last pair I bought was 14 months ago (time flies). Since the we all know what happened to the price of copper. Sorry to mislead you:( . Still, at $28.75 they are a good value. I've never read any testimony as to the sonic differences of the Vampires, or say Cardas. The Cardas are heftier, and a precision build, but they cost a lot more.

Here's the link for Parts Connexion (http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/connectors.html)

[george daniel]

Thanks Carl,, i ordered a few sets--george

[schwarcw]

Parts Connexion does have the gold plated Connex brand on sale for $19.95 a stereo pair.

Carl

[F1nut]

Nice job, Brock.

[Jockos]

I have the x-overs with the safety switches. Where can you get these and what value? Also I noticed the RTA 11T schematics have an extra 12uf mylar cap. what do you replace those with.

Thanks Jockos

[george daniel]

By safety switches, I assume that you are talking about the "polyswitch",,free from polk for the asking,,ask nicely:)

Good question about the mylar cap,, I noticed that also,, I'm replacing mine with sonicaps

[Jockos]

Exactly, Thanks george. Without taking my RTA 11t x-over out, is the mylar cap one of those thin disc like cap's? If you have a pic of your x-over out can you please post. I'm just trying to get a mental picture of the layout. Also if you were to go with a different brand of caps and they only have 30uf and 40uf and the original is 34uf, which value is better and how does it affect the sound. Thanks

[george daniel]

here you go,the disc on the lower right is the polyswitch, r-1 and r-2 are resistors,,hope this helps

[george daniel]

also, if I were to go with something other than sonicaps, my choice would be solen pb series,,I believe that they have caps to match the polks,given the tolerance specs,,try partsconnexion.com,,

[Jockos]

Thanks george, when you redo yours maybe you can post pics of it.

Happy easter Jockos

[george daniel]

i kinda have a habit of posting crossover pic's:o I just can't keep my hands off em,:eek:

[heiney9]

I have the x-overs with the safety switches. Where can you get these and what value? Also I noticed the RTA 11T schematics have an extra 12uf mylar cap. what do you replace those with.

Thanks Jockos

The 11's since they are a true D'appolito array have an extra 12uF cap. Which ever brand you choose I would use the same for each.

Solen (to my recollection) doesn't make a 34uF so I used a 33uF which is well within tolerance of the original.

[heiney9]

I just got off the phone with Ken and I said 'eff it and ordered the RD0194-1 replacement silk dome tweeters. They should be here mid-week and hopefully the combo of the upgraded x-overs and RD0's will give me the sound I'm looking for. I am still going to experiement with the 2.0 and 2.7 ohm resistor.

H9

[jakelm]

Very nice heiney, thanks. Great pics. I am thinking I'll pull my x-overs before buying anything. I can't seem to nail which schematic applies and I think I've heard you reference the fact that the peerless in the 7b had an additional part somewhere. Thanks again for the documentation of your project.


Jonesy, I was the one who noticed an additional resistor for the midbass in my 7b's. There are no schematics for our 7's. Polk used a 2.7ohm in line with the 34uf cap for midbass and a 4.5ohm in line with the 12uf cap for tweeter.

I went with Solens caps accross the board, a 33uf and a 12uf and Mills 12watt resistors 2.5 and 4.5.

I have pics here somewhere of the original and modified 7b xover

[heiney9]

Also if you ever have any questions or just want to bounce some idea's around you could call Ken Swauger.

[Jonesy]

Jonesy, I was the one who noticed an additional resistor for the midbass in my 7b's. There are no schematics for our 7's. Polk used a 2.7ohm in line with the 34uf cap for midbass and a 4.5ohm in line with the 12uf cap for tweeter.

I went with Solens caps accross the board, a 33uf and a 12uf and Mills 12watt resistors 2.5 and 4.5.

I have pics here somewhere of the original and modified 7b xover

I was just squinting at your pics last night trying to figure out what resistors you had where. Thanks alot (you saved me a PM) :p

If I haven't said it yet. I'll say it now.....you da man! Of course heiney could be the man too.....and then there are the others here that I've pawned advice from....they would also have to be considered the man as well. I guess yer all a bunch of men :D

[foxhounds2]

If you guys want a drop in replacement that is cheap but sounds very good, try the LS00058's from MCM electronics. They are made by a company in Denmark and look uncanningly like the Peerless tweeters that use to be used. I put a couple in my model 10's. I am real happy with them and they only cost $14.25 each. I compared them with the Peerless and thought they sounded spot on. $28.50 isn't much to gamble with.

[Ricardo]

Great job/thread. You'll love the new tweeters.

Here's the Vampire web for your next purchases:

http://www.vampirewire.com/

[engtaz]

What is the differences in the different Monitor 5's?

engtaz

[heiney9]

What is the differences in the different Monitor 5's?

engtaz

Not much other than the tweeters they used over the years and some minor x-over changes which may or may not follow the tweeter changes.

Early versions of the 5b's (including most of the monitor series as well) had either the peerlees or sl1000 tweeter. I'm not sure which was first (probably the peerless). The early models were fused instead of using a poly switch for tweeter protection. Early 1st gen monitor's also had a paper coned mid driver (if I remember correctly).

What I call 2nd generation monitors had the sl2000 tweeter which were also fused (but at some point they delete the fuse and put in a poly switch) but some of the early models had 2.7 ohm 5W resistor in tweeter signal path which was later changed to a 2.0 ohm 5W resistor. That change seemed to coincide with the addition of the poly switch. Perhaps the poly switch added a bit of resistance :confused: .

What I call 3rd generation was the last production run and Polk refered to those as Monitor xx Series II and those had the sl2500 tweeter which had similar sonic charateristics to the sl3000 used in upper end SDA's and RTA's. The sl2500 & sl3000 were designed to get rid of the +6 db @ 13kHZ peak the sl2000 has. The sl2000 uses a silver coil whereas the sl2500 and sl3000 use a tri-laminate material.

I don't think the peerless version or the sl2500 version schematic is posted in the schematic area. If you have these versions it's best to call Ken and find out the best way to upgrade those, or pull the x-over and get the values from there.

There is a schematic for a 5b sl3000 mod that is interesting because they add a 5.8 uF cap in parallel with the resistor for the tweeter as well as a slightly higher value inductor. Not sure what effect this has on the output of the tweet, but I may try it down the road as an experiment.

If I missed anything please add.

H9

[mhardy6647]

If you guys want a drop in replacement that is cheap but sounds very good, try the LS00058's from MCM electronics. They are made by a company in Denmark and look uncanningly like the Peerless tweeters that use to be used. I put a couple in my model 10's. I am real happy with them and they only cost $14.25 each. I compared them with the Peerless and thought they sounded spot on. $28.50 isn't much to gamble with.
Interesting! Can you tell/do you know what material the domes are made of? They look kind of plastic-y/shiny in the photo at MCM.

http://www.mcminone.com/content/productimages/s4/4066522.jpg

[heiney9]

If you guys want a drop in replacement that is cheap but sounds very good, try the LS00058's from MCM electronics. They are made by a company in Denmark and look uncanningly like the Peerless tweeters that use to be used. I put a couple in my model 10's. I am real happy with them and they only cost $14.25 each. I compared them with the Peerless and thought they sounded spot on. $28.50 isn't much to gamble with.

Are you recommending these as replacements for just the peerless models or all the tweeter types used? If you look at the x-overs for the peerless it's quite different than for the other tweets used.

H9

[engtaz]

http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/92/d4/ca41_1.JPG
http://i5.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/92/d4/cc6b_1.JPG

Which series are these?

Thanks
engtaz

[jakelm]

Here you go Engtaz

http://polksda.com/monitor5b.shtml

[heiney9]

http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/92/d4/ca41_1.JPG
http://i5.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/92/d4/cc6b_1.JPG

Which series are these?

Thanks
engtaz

What I call 2nd gen. You have the sl2000 tweeter and no fuse (so you have a poly switch). You would follow the 2nd Monitor 5b schematic. You have (1) 12uF and (1) 34uF cap and (1) 2.0 ohm 5W resistor. If you are going to upgrade/rebuild your x-overs you can use a 33uF cap in place of the 34uF w/o any consequences.

Polk will also send you new poly switches for free and if you are going to replace parts then might as well put new poly's in as they can wear out over time.

Use mylar or polypropelene caps and I highly rec the Mills resistor. Some feel a larger resistor (more resistance) will really tone down the tweeter. The best rec. is to get the new Silk dome replacements from Polk (RD0194-1) for $102 a/pr. shipped.

H9

[engtaz]

Which tweeter??

engtaz

[heiney9]

What I call 2nd gen. You have the sl2000 tweeter and no fuse (so you have a poly switch).

Read it's there :)

H9

[engtaz]

H9
I was typing as you were posting your reply. same time of postings

Sorry I got you upset but I type slow and this sight hangs up on me sometimes,

engtaz

[heiney9]

H9
I was typing as you were posting your reply. same time of postings

Sorry I got you upset but I type slow and this sight hangs up on me sometimes,

engtaz

LOL, I'm not upset at all, that's why I put the smiley. I miss things in posts or post at the same time all the time :)

H9

[engtaz]

Hey,
I really appreciate your help and guidance on the Monitor 5's.

engtaz
And Adcom advice

[foxhounds2]

Are you recommending these as replacements for just the peerless models or all the tweeter types used? If you look at the x-overs for the peerless it's quite different than for the other tweets used.

H9
I would like some of you folks with more Polk experience to try these out just to see what you think. I was just recommending them for a trial to see what everyone else thinks. When I bought my model 10's a couple of weeks ago I had one with a SL1000 and the other with a Peerless. The peerless seems to be the original but I am not sure. I haven't pulled the crossovers yet to see what parts values are present. When I recieved these tweeters I placed one in the cabinet with the SL1000 and left the Peeerless in the other one. When I compared them I thought that they sounded very much alike in all aspects.I know that this is a subjective process but I have been building, designing speakers for many years and feel like these tweeters are worth a shot for the money. If anyone else tries them I would like to hear your opinion of them.

[engtaz]

george what part # did you order.

engtaz

[foxhounds2]

Interesting! Can you tell/do you know what material the domes are made of? They look kind of plastic-y/shiny in the photo at MCM.

http://www.mcminone.com/content/productimages/s4/4066522.jpg
If you compare them side by side with the Peerless, they appear to be the same material. I think the picture is reflecting alot of light. In person they aren't as shiny.

[heiney9]

I just got the new RD0194-1 silk dome tweeters and just installed them. ;)

[engtaz]

How do you like the sound of the 5's now.

engtaz

[george daniel]

george what part # did you order.

engtaz

Vampire bp hex from partsconnexion,, I thought that I pm'd the parts # :)

[heiney9]

How do you like the sound of the 5's now.

engtaz

I'll wait to comment in depth. It wasn't as dramatic as expected but I only have a total of about 2 hours on the tweets and less than 10 hours on the new x-over parts. The main rig has LSi's and going between the two is hard because they are completely different speakers top to bottom and sound totally different.

If I had to sum it up right now, I'd say the money was very much worth it. I have just under $200 in these 5's and if I didn't have LSi's in the other room I'd be even more thrilled. Judging them just on their own they have really improved and expect as they "break-in" they will get better.

I highly recommend the tweets and x-over refreshening :) ;)

H9

[engtaz]

Did you change the post and why don't you show off your 5's with some pics with the new tweets.

engtaz

[heiney9]

Did you change the post and why don't you show off your 5's with some pics with the new tweets.

engtaz

No, I didn't change the binding posts. I have enough $$$ invested in these 5b's considering it's for use with a secondary system. I'm sure it's a worthwhile change, but I've gone as far as I will on these.

I don't currently own a working camera, but my bro does (he's the one who took the x-over pics) so perhaps over the weekend I can post some shots with the new tweeters.

H9

P.s. Have the RD0 series always had Polk Audio engraved in the plate around the dome? Seems I remember reading the RD0's were kinda flimsy and had no markings. These are very well built units comparable in weight and build quality to the originals.

[engtaz]

I am using my 5's as center channel so they are on most of the time, so I listened to them before and after install. The A B comparison after changing from 2000 to RDO194 is that the sound spectrum is smoother (even). Voices are more natural. I can't wait for them to break in because it will only get better.

[jakelm]

OK..I just bought the same tweeter.

http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?catalog_name=MCMProducts&product_id=LS00058

Since I believe my peerless is failing , I will see how it sounds in my center chanell.

[WilliamM2]

Have the RD0 series always had Polk Audio engraved in the plate around the dome? Seems I remember reading the RD0's were kinda flimsy and had no markings. These are very well built units comparable in weight and build quality to the originals.

Don't know about always, but the RDO's I bought for my SDA's two years ago have the Polk logo molded in them. And I also thought they were built just as well as the originals.

[foxhounds2]

OK..I just bought the same tweeter.

http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?catalog_name=MCMProducts&product_id=LS00058

Since I believe my peerless is failing , I will see how it sounds in my center chanell.

Great, let us all know what you think of it when you get a good comparison. I think it is incredibly smooth and neutral sounding which is what we should really be trying to achieve.

[jakelm]

Just got it in. It looks idintical to the peerless except for the exposed wires on the plate that the peerless have. It sure is a good looking tweeter, if I must say. Not shinny at all, seems to be made up of the same material. (Cloth dome)

The specs on the back read

DT-100
60W/8ohm
30Wrms (2.5khz/12dB)

Looks like it has a natrual roll off at almost the same point as the Peerless.

Very heavy. It feels alittle heavier than the Peerless. It does seem to be built very well.

[heiney9]

Just got it in. It looks idintical to the peerless except for the exposed wires on the plate that the peerless have. It sure is a good looking tweeter, if I must say. Not shinny at all, seems to be made up of the same material. (Cloth dome)

The specs on the back read

DT-100
60W/8ohm
30Wrms (2.5khz/12dB)

Looks like it has a natrual roll off at almost the same point as the Peerless.

Very heavy. It feels alittle heavier than the Peerless. It does seem to be built very well.

Of course we want to know how it sounds? :D Do you know yet if it's a drop-in or will some slight mods to the cabinet be nec.?

H9

[engtaz]

How are you speakers sounding?

[jakelm]

As soon as I get it home tonight, I will drop it in. I recieved it here at work this morning. But as soon as I get home I will give you my thoughts on Sq. I dont have the 2 to compare right now, but it look like the exact same size. But I will see tonight.

[foxhounds2]

I already used a couple of these dome tweeters in my model 10's. They are a drop in for the originals with no mods needed. They sound fabulous.

[jakelm]

I already used a couple of these dome tweeters in my model 10's. They are a drop in for the originals with no mods needed. They sound fabulous.

I installed mine last night. Again, no mods needed, they fit perfectly. The screw holes match. If I didnt know any better, I would think it was the same tweeter, just without the exposed "v" style leads. The sound quality is very close to the peerless, but it is alittle more efficient. So with minor Eq adjustments or very minor crossover adjustments, I think it would be identical to the peerless. But as for just a drop in replacement with no mods, it works excellent.

[heiney9]

Well, I’ve had some time to get the new tweets and x-over broken in as well as some decent listening time. All I can say is, “I have a big fat grin from ear to ear”. These speakers have been completely transformed. The RD0’s are every bit as good as everyone says. These are still lively on the top end and the vocals have a forwardness that put them right out front, but not in a cardboard cut-out type presentation.

Vocals and upper frequencies are so smooth and effortless and not a hint of harshness or grain compared to the original tweeters. The depth for and aft is simply amazing. The soundstage is simply awesome and has so much realism when it’s in the recording; especially live piano. The natural tone and resonance can be startling.

These are not bass mongers, the bass is tight and taught and very solid, but they don’t dig deep, probably not too much below about 45Hz., convincing nonetheless and, there is a naturalness to the bass that’s hard to explain. It doesn’t sound forced or like it’s trying to “fake” it, like many other inexpensive ported speakers. (my Athena AS-B1’s come to mind).

It’s amazing how different these sound from my LSi 9’s, but at the same time I can now live with both of them. The 5b’s aren’t in the most listener friendly environment, but even so they sound remarkable. My 2 favorite audio adjectives now apply; completely open and effortless sound.

I picked these up from dkg999 for $35. The cabinets have a few very minor chips on the back edges where the veneer meet the particle board, a few scratches on the bottom and the grills need to cleaned a bit, but overall they are a solid 7. I spent $48 for x-over parts and $102 for the new tweets. I sold the sl2000’s for a net of about $40 after shipping, so the total cost for these speakers is about $150. A complete and utter bargain for the sound these produce. Classic Polk sound doesn’t get any better than this.

For the record here’s what I’m driving them with. It’s a PC based system in my office/computer room. Chaintech AV710 soundcard for its direct digital output capabilities; Harmonic Technologies-Sonic Impact glass toslink; AMC DAC-8 digital to analog converter; Yamaha AX-900U integrated rated at 130 wpc using the CD direct input. I use a program called Foobar to play regular cd’s and FLAC (lossless) files and yes, I play some mp3’s as well.

H9

[Lasareath]

Those Solen caps are so big, the tuning of the box has probably been altered 'cause of the volume they displace.

;-)

LOL!

[jakelm]

Well congrates H9.

Take a pic for up to see what the new tweets look like in the cabinets. You did say no modification was need when replaceing the sl2000 with the RDO's?

[heiney9]

Well congrates H9.

Take a pic for up to see what the new tweets look like in the cabinets. You did say no modification was need when replaceing the sl2000 with the RDO's?

Thanks, they really turned out well. I'll get some pics up. Yes, it's a straight forward drop in. Just remember to re-use the gasket from the old tweeter as the new ones don't come with the gasket.

H9

[Tin_ear_fool]

I installed mine last night. Again, no mods needed, they fit perfectly. The screw holes match. If I didnt know any better, I would think it was the same tweeter, just without the exposed "v" style leads. The sound quality is very close to the peerless, but it is alittle more efficient. So with minor Eq adjustments or very minor crossover adjustments, I think it would be identical to the peerless. But as for just a drop in replacement with no mods, it works excellent.

Just ordered a pair for my newly-acquired 1989 M5s. Do you think they're more efficient than the SL2000s I'm replacing? If so, would a 3 or 4 W resistor back down the efficiency, or just leave it as is?

[F1nut]

Just ordered a pair for my newly-acquired 1989 M5s. Do you think they're more efficient than the SL2000s I'm replacing? If so, would a 3 or 4 W resistor back down the efficiency, or just leave it as is?

The replacement for the SL2000 is the RD0194-1 available from Polk. You do not want the MCM tweeter.

[jakelm]

Just ordered a pair for my newly-acquired 1989 M5s. Do you think they're more efficient than the SL2000s I'm replacing? If so, would a 3 or 4 W resistor back down the efficiency, or just leave it as is?



I dont know about the comparison with the sl2000. But they are more efficient that the peerless.

If you found they were too forward, then change increase the resistor by 1ohm, not neccessary to change the wattage of the resistor.

[jakelm]

Just do what F1 said..all will be good.

I experimented with different tweeters. The RDO is the best replacement.

[jakelm]

Also I dont know if the MCM, is a drop in replacement for the sl2000. I thought the peerless and the 2000 were different sizes and shapes.

[heiney9]

Man, you are really messing with the original speaker. The MCM is probably not going to be a good fit for the later model monitor's. The peerless models and the later models had a different x-over and you are really changing the original. I'm not sure what you are going to get and just throwing parts on the x-over to compensate for something you're not even sure how it will sound.

I'm all for experimenting but the RD0194-1 from Polk are the best ticket so far for the replacement of the sl1000 & sl2000 and the RD0198-1 for the sl2500. This is a tried and true replacement direct from the manufacturer. Upgrading the x-overs is also something I would highly recommend.

H9

[jakelm]

But H9, my understanding is the new RDO194-1, does not fit in the same cutout as the peerless. I read here somewhere that the hole needs to be inlarged and the RDO194-1 does not fit air tight, like the peerless does. Or am I mistaken?

To my knowledge, there is no excact tweeter replacement (in regaurds to fit and finish) for the peerless other than the MCM tweeter.

[Tin_ear_fool]

Whew, thanks for the advice on the MCM no workie for the SL2000. Just called and they cancelled my order.
Now, when I call CS, I just tell them I'm a ClubPolk member, and the price should be...? Of the 194-1, that is...

[heiney9]

But H9, my understanding is the new RDO194-1, does not fit in the same cutout as the peerless. I read here somewhere that the hole needs to be inlarged and the RDO194-1 does not fit air tight, like the peerless does. Or am I mistaken?

To my knowledge, there is no excact tweeter replacement (in regaurds to fit and finish) for the peerless other than the MCM tweeter.

I've been told that you can use the RD0194-1 but you need to use a Dremel tool to fabricate the opening. It's my understanding it's a very minimal procedure and I've never heard of it not fitting air tight. If for some reason it doesn't there are other very simple fixes. I know nothing about the MCM tweeter other than what has been mentioned here.

H9

EDIT: IMO, I would also change the x-over parts to correspond with the later x-over used with the sl200 tweeter. If you are not handy you could probably let it go with no ill effects to the sound. But, I would do the x-over if you can just to get it more correct.

[heiney9]

Whew, thanks for the advice on the MCM no workie for the SL2000. Just called and they cancelled my order.
Now, when I call CS, I just tell them I'm a ClubPolk member, and the price should be...? Of the 194-1, that is...

You are correct and to be safe I would mention the part number RD0194-1 just to be clear. Call and get Ken Swauger's extension and he'll set you up. $102 for a pair sent 2nd day (no charge for shipping). $48 x 2 plus tax.

H9

[engtaz]

Everyone wants to be like you H9 LOL

[schwarcw]

H9,

Thanks for sharing your experiences and the posts documenting your journey. There is a lot of interesting stuff that's of use to many Monitor 5 lovers. Great job! You are annointed the King of Monitor 5 mods!

I will use your experience and energy to modify my Monitor 7's. I've done three set's of SDA's, but not a Monitor. This is one of the most fun parts of the hobby.

[heiney9]

H9,

Thanks for sharing your experiences and the posts documenting your journey. There is a lot of interesting stuff that's of use to many Monitor 5 lovers. Great job! You are annointed the King of Monitor 5 mods!

I will use your experience and energy to modify my Monitor 7's. I've done three set's of SDA's, but not a Monitor. This is one of the most fun parts of the hobby.

Thanks Carl, just trying to document it for others later on if they decide to do it. The Monitor series is as worthy as the SDA's for these upgrades. I think you will be very happy when you get done with your 7's. The only downside to the original Monitor series vs. todays speakers is the size. Because Polk used a passive radiator they had to make the cabinets rather large by today's standards. I wish these were a bit more compact, but overall i'm happy with them and I had fun doing it.

H9

[jakelm]

LOL...Size matters H9.

Upgrading my 7's was the most fun and most rewarding project I have ever done in electronics.

[Tin_ear_fool]

Earlier in the thread there was a mention of Sonicaps, and H9 used Solen Fast Caps, and he's really enjoying the improvement. Now, I'm wondering if the M5 has sufficient enough component and build quality to appreciate the difference in sound going from the Solen (about $32 for 4 caps) to a Sonicap (about $116 for 4 caps) upgrade? Financially, it's a no-brainer. But, again, if we all had vast amounts of disposable income...

[jakelm]

Earlier in the thread there was a mention of Sonicaps, and H9 used Solen Fast Caps, and he's really enjoying the improvement. Now, I'm wondering if the M5 has sufficient enough component and build quality to appreciate the difference in sound going from the Solen (about $32 for 4 caps) to a Sonicap (about $116 for 4 caps) upgrade? Financially, it's a no-brainer. But, again, if we all had vast amounts of disposable income...

IMO...No the price difference is not worth the Sonicaps.

If money was no object, then sure why not. But in my world , money is always a factor.

[F1nut]

IMO, the price difference and more importantly, the sound quality of the Sonicap's is absolutely worth the money, but only if it doesn't exceed the value of the speaker, which in this case with the cost of new tweeters factored in, I'd say it does. Get the Solen's and be happy.

[Tin_ear_fool]

Not to belabor the point, but further searches on this wonderful forum have told me to go with Sonicaps for the tweeters, and Solens for the woofers. That splits the cost difference as well, around $60 in caps. I worry about mixing brands, though, as mentioned in the Sonicap review on this website:http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

[F1nut]

That's why I said Sonicap's are worth the money as I think they sound better in the highs and mids. I've spoken with the owner of Sonic Craft numerous times and we've discussed that opinion. He doesn't feel that mixing his caps with others is a problem. I should add that I'm more comfortable using all the same brand.

BTW, I'm happy you've taken it upon yourself to use the search function. You'll go far here.

[heiney9]

IMO, the price difference and more importantly, the sound quality of the Sonicap's is absolutely worth the money, but only if it doesn't exceed the value of the speaker, which in this case with the cost of new tweeters factored in, I'd say it does. Get the Solen's and be happy.

BINGO. You also have to consider the electronics you are running and where the speaks fit into your hierarchy. My 5b's are in a secondary system and the extra expense for the Sonic caps just wasn't worth it. However the Sonic caps are a superior sounding component compared to the Solens. I have LSi9's in the main system so that's where I do all my critical listening.

In my experience if you are going to do the x-overs it's probably a good idea to get the RD0's. For me personally after the x-over upgrade the sl2000 was just unlistenable. Keep in mind the sl2000 isn't the greatest to begin with, it has a nasty 6db spike at around 13kHZ and the new components just seem to make it worse. The Polk replacement RD0194-1 is a much more balanced, smoother, less fatiguing tweeter that works really well especially with the new x-over components.

Good luck

H9

[F1nut]

Brock,

Exactly! You understood your use and the resulting choices were right on the money. Did I say, nice job yet? Nice job.

[heiney9]

Thanks to everyone for the kind words. I am really enthused about this project because it was a lot of fun and the results are off the charts. I expected some improvement but they turned out really well, better than expected. You don't realize how gradual the parts wear out or the benefit of using better than orignal spec parts until you actually do it.

I'm so stoked I might even consider doing my LSi 9's at some point. Although in looking over the x-over Polk used pretty high grade mylar caps on the tweets and all the other components seem to be above average. It would be fun to use some really high end caps and see what the results would be.

I wonder if it would be possible to get pre-drilled blank PC boards for the LSi 9 x-overs so I could just use my own new parts w/o the hassle of removing the old parts. Plus, it would be easier to swap them in and out for comparison. Kind of an unusual request, but I wonder if Ken could accomidate such a request.

H9

[jakelm]

OK..Now I'm convinced. I'm upgrading my Solens' with Sonicaps for my peerless.

Damn you...damn you all:p :D

[Sumbrada77]

Another possiblity Caps wise is the the ClarityCap line. They were reviewed and rated SonicCap level in the this review and very high in other reviews. I purchased (4) 12uF SA series for my Monitor 10 upgrade. Once I get the rest of the parts in and do the upgrade I will give a review. The SAs are the top of the line and were ~$12 each at http://www.e-speaker.com which is cheaper thaan the SonicCaps but more than the Solens. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

[Tin_ear_fool]

In case anyone is still following this thread, question:

Looking at the Clarity Caps, SAs for the tweets, and PX for the mid-woofer. Would a 30 uF (PX series) work just fine in place of the stock 34s?

[heiney9]

In case anyone is still following this thread, question:

Looking at the Clarity Caps, SAs for the tweets, and PX for the mid-woofer. Would a 30 uF (PX series) work just fine in place of the stock 34s?

That value is pretty far away from the original. It would work but it may change the sound a bit. Why not use a 33uF Solen ?

[george daniel]

That value is pretty far away from the original. It would work but it may change the sound a bit. Why not use a 33uF Solen ?

yep, the 33uF solen will work

[jakelm]

That value is pretty far away from the original.

LOL...I dont mean to laugh H9, but have you seen Polk's different values for the same drivers in the same crossovers? The values are all over the place. From 4.5 resistors with 34uf caps, to 2.7resitors with 26uf caps. I think Polk was alittle confused at one point. I never understood. Was it trial and error? Who knows.

But back to the subject. Your right,, 33uf Solen.

[heiney9]

LOL...I dont mean to laugh H9, but have you seen Polk's different values for the same drivers in the same crossovers? The values are all over the place. From 4.5 resistors with 34uf caps, to 2.7resitors with 26uf caps. I think Polk was alittle confused at one point. I never understood. Was it trial and error? Who knows.

But back to the subject. Your right,, 33uf Solen.

It is kinda of funny but I think it had more to do with all the different types of drivers they used. Several different tweets and mid-bass drivers yeilded a cluster of different value parts in the x-over. The main problem is most of the new parts people will use are 1-5% tolerance so if you are on the high or low end of the value it might make a difference. Most of the original parts were 10-20% tolerance and by now after 20 years or so they are way out there :D .

H9

[Tin_ear_fool]

Well, based upon the Dutchman's cap test, I'm intrigued to try out the Clarity Caps. He rated them highly, and they're cheaper than Sonicaps. Besides, he's not the first person who's noted that the Solen's can sound a little forward. The Claritys are supposedly more towards the warm side, so I think they'll match rather nicely with either my NAD 7000 or HK 680i (a tiny tad brighter) receivers.
BTW, I received and installed the RD0194-1 tweeters tonight. As H9 said in an earlier post, I don't hear an appreciable difference yet. A big part of that, I'm sure, is because of the stock crossover parts. I'm itching to get that ear-to-ear grin myself!!:D
So, do you think there's adequate room for a paralleled 30 and a 3.3 or a 4.7 on the board?
Also, for one-stop shopping, e-speakers carries Mundorf MOX non-inductive metal oxides, no Mills. I see some custom speaker manufacturers use these as well. Thoughts?

Okay, so I went ahead and ordered the Claritys and MOXs. Will let you know how it sounds when installed.

[Jockos]

I have the later x-over with the caps mounted vertical on the board. I believe the caps are bi-axial with both leads on one side of the can. Any ideas on mounting the replacements? Thanks Jockos

[heiney9]

I have the later x-over with the caps mounted vertical on the board. I believe the caps are bi-axial with both leads on one side of the can. Any ideas on mounting the replacements? Thanks Jockos

Monitor 5b's :confused: . Can you post a pic? Are they Series II with the sl2500 blackish/goldish dome tweeter? I have seen all the innerds of the M5's except the Series II and I can honestly say I've never seen the config you describe. Pics....pics....pics :D

H9

[jakelm]

I think this is what he is talking about. I think this is series 2

[Jockos]

exactly, also what were the original caps rated at(dc volts)

Thanks,
Jockos

[ben62670]

http://www.madisound.com/pdf/ClarityCap.pdf
They are cheaper than the solens. I would love to hear how they sound. They are also used in B&W speakers.

[heiney9]

exactly, also what were the original caps rated at(dc volts)

Thanks,
Jockos

Check with Ken Swauger at Polk or look at the schematic posted in the troubleshooting forum marked "sl3000 upgrade". That might help, otherwise they are probably the same as the other M5's (voltage rating)

H9

[jakelm]

exactly, also what were the original caps rated at(dc volts)

Thanks,
Jockos


100dcv

At least thats what all of my caps were rated at.

[Jockos]

Thanks

[nerdorama]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum. My membership was prompted by recent acquisition of some Monitor 5's with the SL2000 tweeters. One of the speakers had a magnet come unglued from the woofer basket, but I've been able to repair that since the voice coil was undamaged.

Have been reading this thread about xover upgrades and have notices several mentions of peaking with this tweeter. Has anyone measured the response and thought of trying a notch filter?

Regards,
John

[schwarcw]

Hi John and welcome to the Club Polk Forums! I can't remember anyone trying a notch filter, but I know it was discussed. A lot of folks have replaced the SL2000 tweeter with a RDO-194 which is available from Polk for $48 each. This replacement tweeter is much smoother than the SL2000 and it doesn't have the spike at 13.5K Hz.

Welcome!

[heiney9]

If you are going to use them a lot the RD0194-1 silk replacement is the ticket. The difference is very noticeable and pleasant. All Polk speakers that use the sl2000 have a +5dB spike at 13-13.5KHz. It's a characteristic of the tweeter and I'm not sure a notch filter will get the job done accurately. I would also think once Polk was made aware of this (Stereo Review and Stereophile did measurments) they would have used a notch filter of some sort but they didn't; they designed the sl2500 and sl3000 trilaminate tweeters. If you know how to make it work effectively try it and let us know how it works. A notch filter has been mentioned before but I don't think anyone has actually tried it.

H9

[nerdorama]

Hi,

Got the midrange driver back in the box tonight and have been listening for a couple of hours. They seem to have good clarity, maybe a bit forward for my taste and the bass is a bit loose. I'm using a tube amp so that may be some of the bass issue. Midrange is nice and clear.

If can get to it this weekend, I'll make some FR measurements and maybe I can work up a notch filter for the 13kHz peak that's been mentioned. That is if I see it in the results.

John

[Sumbrada77]

Hey heiney9 this is Sumbrada77. Just re-did the crossover in my 5 today I got from you and did some testing. It's new but I still could hear a difference. Better tighter mids and cleaner highs. I will burn it in and write back in a week with further results. Still a bit bright with the SL2000 but definitely better. I am using it as the center and a little brighter highs do ok with movies. I have not had to do the sheilding as I can use it as is if I keep it low enough under the TV and angle it up. I added a 0.01uf Dayton cap as a bypass with the 12uf cap. I really think it helps. I will add some pics once I transfer them to the PC.
I am also starting my 10A crossovers tonight with the clarity Caps. I will start a new thread with them. Thanks for your help and 5. It really makes a difference with movies.

[dorokusai]

Great project, great results. The silk dome replacement for the SL2000(RD-0194) is the last puzzle piece for you.

Kudos to you for using components that are against the grain.

[heiney9]

Well it's been well over a month and these 5b's sound fantastic on the "grunt" system in the office rig. The bass is very tight and defined. The mids are where I feel the biggest improvement has come. Everything is so fleshed out and 3 dimensional. These things image just wonderfully; the depth is startling at times. Every layer of a recording can be heard very clearly. The RD0's have smoothed out and tamed the top end nicely; everything is a lot more seamless sounding. I should have taken them to the Chicago PF to get others impressions; next time I will. I would have loved to hear them up against Doug's 10b's.

These are some really great sounding all purpose speakers that do many things well. Many times I listen and type only by the glow of the monitor and they truely disappear in the darkness on the other side of the room. With no perceiveable visual of the speakers one can get lost in the recordings and really hear how good these are now. The best is when I'm on the computer not really paying attention to the music (like I would with the main rig) and the sound takes my attention away from what I'm doing.

For example right now I'm listening to Joss Stone's latest and it's like listening to mini SDA's in some spots. I keep hearing all these little things going on in the recording and I'm not even listening critically.

H9

[Tin_ear_fool]

Heiney,
What front end components are you using to drive your 5's?

A few weeks ago, I installed the 194s, the ClarityCaps and Mundorf MOX resistors (had to run jumpers from the board to the huge caps, which I hot glued to the inside bottom), and on either my older NAD or my HK receiver, didn't notice much of a difference. I then put the HK and Monitor 5s in my daughter's room, and haven't really heard them since.

Your latest post has me intrigued; maybe I ought to pull them out and try them with my Arcam integrated, and see how they sound now. If the new parts need a fair amount of current run through them to break in, I can say they'd still need to be. She hasn't run them hard or abused them at all.

[Jockos]

Tin ear,
I actually like the fact that you don't notice a difference. With the solens there is a noticeable difference which I personally don't care for. I have some dayton's on the way. Some reviewers like them and say there're pretty neutral. I would like to get my speakers back to the original sound, but with fresh capacitors.

Jockos

[F1nut]

Jockos, it should be noted that Solens are not the best choice for high frequencies, they tend to be a bit forward and edgy. Maybe try something different there. However, if you want the original veiled sound, get some cheap electrolytics.

As for Tin Ear, maybe you really do have tin ears (no offense) because I don't know how one couldn't notice a difference from jump street. However, new caps do need to burn in, give them at least 100 hours before judging the sound.

[heiney9]

Jockos, while we all have different hearing and things we like/dislike the Dayton caps probably aren't going to get the job done any better. Now if are just looking for the stock sound, perhaps...........but look at all time, effort and expense just to get them to where they were. I will agree with F1 that Solens aren't the top choice for the highs, but they are much better, by a wide margin, than the originals and much better than many of the budget caps out there.

For this project I wasn't going to drop the coin for the Sonic caps, just didn't make sense financially for an inexpensive book shelf run in a secondary system. However I stand by the huge improvement the Solens made over stock.

As stated earlier the midrange is off the charts, very clean, fleshed out and the depth and layers of information is excellent. The top end is a bit forward, not harsh or shrill just a bit out front. The bass is probably the second biggest improvement. It's very clean, well defined and punchy. The upgrade transformed these speakers from merely average to excellent.

One last thing is these speakers were bought at a flea market by another local Polkie and some drivers including tweets were blown (and replaced by said Polkie) so I suspect these may have been abused. They never sounded all that great from day one, so perhaps there were other issues with mine and when I rebuilt the x-over it made them sound a whole lot better than stock, who knows. I recommend this upgrade w/ Solens w/o reservation.

Tin_Ear, I am running them with a late 80's Yamaha AX-900U integrated 130 per. Computer as a source with the digital signal run thru and AMC DAC-8 digital to analog converter. Std bannana plugs and 12g zip cord for speaker wire. I will also note if you are still using the sl2000 tweeter this upgrade will really make the weakness in that tweeter worse. The RD0 silk dome replacement is the recommended tweeter. There is no way to fix the +5dB peak @13kHZ of the sl2000; it's a real problem made worse by a x-over freshening.

For me burn in is the key for the all parts. These still continue to get better.

As always in this hobby YMMV

H9

[heiney9]

I might try a little experiment. I have these 2.7 ohm Mills here that are the correct value according to the schematic for this series (w/fuses) so I have to go back into the x-over since I used 2.0 ohm resistors. I want to see if there is a difference.

I'm thinking now of getting a couple of Sonic caps to bypass the Solens on the highs and see if that improves the highs. Since I'm going to be in there again anyways.

Jesse you have a PM

H9

[jakelm]

I might try a little experiment. I have these 2.7 ohm Mills here that are the correct value according to the schematic for this series (w/fuses) so I have to go back into the x-over since I used 2.0 ohm resistors. I want to see if there is a difference.

I'm thinking now of getting a couple of Sonic caps to bypass the Solens on the highs and see if that improves the highs. Since I'm going to be in there again anyways.

Jesse you have a PM

H9

It wil work to replace the 2.0 resistors, but you might want a higher value than 2.7. I would recommend 3.5ohm. My 7's use a 4.5ohm, but I find they are too laid back. 3.5ohm should be perfect.

[Jockos]

This is a great thread, as many people are interested in redoing they're crossovers.

Thanks Heiney

[Tin_ear_fool]

During the whole RDO tweeter/Sonicap/Mundorf resistor upgrade for my Monitor 5s, the speakers were "down" a week or two, and I didn't take any "before" notes with particular music selections for a before and after review. Furthermore, I didn't do an A/B comparison with one modded and one not, and since my aural memory is fairly hazy (along with most homo sapiens...well documented) , I wasn't immediately wowed by any improvement, except for a slightly smoother top end, IIRC.

I do my best to not let the "I paid alot for it, so therefore, it must sound better" rationale compromise my judgment.
I will admit to having a bit of an "instant gratification" flaw, and that's why I fairly quickly moved them into my daughter's room.

Again, though, I will drag them out and try again, as well as compare their sound to my Vandersteen 1Bs and Shahinian Arcs.

More to follow...

[heiney9]

During the whole RDO tweeter/Sonicap/Mundorf resistor upgrade for my Monitor 5s, the speakers were "down" a week or two, and I didn't take any "before" notes with particular music selections for a before and after review. Furthermore, I didn't do an A/B comparison with one modded and one not, and since my aural memory is fairly hazy (along with most homo sapiens...well documented) , I wasn't immediately wowed by any improvement, except for a slightly smoother top end, IIRC.

I do my best to not let the "I paid alot for it, so therefore, it must sound better" rationale compromise my judgment.
I will admit to having a bit of an "instant gratification" flaw, and that's why I fairly quickly moved them into my daughter's room.

Again, though, I will drag them out and try again, as well as compare their sound to my Vandersteen 1Bs and Shahinian Arcs.

More to follow...

I've been around this hobby a long time and the whole "instant gratification and leaps and bounds difference" just isn't going to happen. I've come to expect and notice subtle changes with gear upgrades, etc. YThis takes patience and listening time. In my case however for whatever reason the 5b's were transformed into a much better speaker.

Keep chipping away at it but if you never really took "mental" notes before the change there maybe an improvement, but you could be completely oblivious to it :) . I guess just judge them on how they sound now.