About speaker wire

[Zero]

Yea, the same old same old debate here, but perhaps with a different twist.

I, like all of us here, have had our ears and eyes full of information regarding the effeciency of higher end speaker wire.

My question is this:

Each driver inside the speaker has a wire connected to the circuit board... or somewhere inside of there.. LOL

That being considered, I really do wonder if there is a limit you can reach in sonic difference because the cable you have going from your amp/reciever to the speaker is as good, if not better, then the internal wire.

I mean, what the hell is the use of having a $200 pair of speaker cables if half the signal is lost when making a delivery from the curcuit board to the driver.

Or am I comparing apples/oranges....
Or totally off base?

Someone help :)

[trubluluc]

I think you know the answer hear man, something to do with smoke and mirrors.
I also get a kick out of the Purists that buy high end power cords and plug them into $1.29 outlets wired with 14 gauge wire.
And then expound on the heady bouquet and nutty finish of the music through their new wires and cords.


-Luc

[Aaron]

The argument is usually that the length of wire to the driver is so short that it isn't nearly as critical as the long run from the amplifier. Also, the wires to the driver don't carrry the full signal like the speaker wires do since the signal has already gone through the crossover. Higher end speakers use better quality wires internally as well.

All I can say is try it for yourself and see if you hear a difference.

Aaron

[Quagmire]

IMHO, I think you're dead on.

I do believe you can degrade the signal by using too slender gage a wire (esp. over distances > @ 100 feet or more), but I don't see how you can "improve the sound" in any way by using lower gauge (thick) shielded cable. The differences between signals carried across normal speaker wire & something like monster cable would be so small that it'd take lab instruments to actually see the difference.

For average length speaker wire runs 16 - 18 gauge wire will work quite well, & you'll never hear the difference between it & vastly more expensive monster cable.

[Aaron]

Blah, blah, blah. Go listen for yourself and report back.

Aaron

[nascarmann]

I think we should use 6 awg 5,000 strand wire with .66 shielding? :rolleyes:

[trubluluc]

...tried using automobile jumper cables?

[Quagmire]

I take it you disagree, which leads me to wonder how much you spent on your speaker cables. :)

As for me, I just went down to Lowes & spent $40 on a 250 ft roll of 16 gauge speaker wire.

[phuz]

I'm still a bit new to all of this and I've always been skeptical of the speaker wire hype. If you look through some of my posts you'll even see me joking about how good my walmart speaker wire is the best. I never at all thought that it could make a difference. I mean, copper is copper right?

I've changed my mind.

After hearing some other systems I realized that I was ready to start a new upgrade path. With the limited budge I have at the moment.. I figure why not go ahead and get some decent cable that is bi-wire capable so I'm ready for those LSi's when I get em. ;)

Steve@3dai recommended some wire from a nice local hi-fi shop, and after listening to his system I wasn't really in a position to argue. So I dropped about $70 on 30 ft. (2x12ft. mains and 1x6ft. center) of JPW Audiolink Bi-Wire 79 cable. I hooked it up not expecting much, and was delightfully suprised. The difference wasn't really night and day, but it made a good bit of difference and has made me a bit happier with my current setup.

Perceptual, maybe... but my opinion has changed. Good cables make sense. $3000 cables? Hell no. I think most of us around here understand that you can get awesome sound within any budget.. and that once you pass a certain point/price range in anything wether it be speakers or wire - that you end up paying for a name or something else other than the real deal.

Sure that radio shack wire is a great deal, and it's just fine for those KLH speakers or that Sony HTIB. But if you've got the ear for LSi's or hi-fi in general... some decent cable makes a difference.

/rant - time for bed. :)

[phuz]

D'oh. In that rant I completely forgot that the actual topic at hand was the wire inside the speaks.

I don't think it would make much of a difference. I'm sure that most mfgs use good wire that matches well with the rest of the components. Even if they didn't, I don't think that six inches of wire is going to make much of a difference if any at all... but if it makes you feel better go for it. :)

[Zero]

I suppose Im having a difficult time grasping the idea of a "no bars held, no limitation" type deal with speaker wire.

I mean, logically....somewhere along the lines your cable will succeed what is in the speaker and you will be loosing signal, vice gaining it. A natural limitation of the speaker itself.

Im not debating if speaker cable sounds better... but simply focusing on the wire inside the speaker box itself.

[Aaron]

I take it you disagree, which leads me to wonder how much you spent on your speaker cables. :)
I was very skeptical of speaker wire and interconnects. I started out with an entry level pair of MIT Terminator 6 interconnects for my sub, because I needed a 10' run and also because I had heard good things about them. I paid $60 for the pair (full retail), which isn't too bad for 10' of quality interconnect. I was still very skeptical about spending $60 on a pair of interconnects, though. I plugged them into my sub, replacing the entry level Monster interconnect, and was totally blown away by the improvement. Night and day. The bass of the sub tightened up like you wouldn't believe. The bass also gained more authority and power. After that experience I was hooked. I went out and bought some speaker wire and interconnects for my other components. Just remember to buy cables/interconnects on the same level as your gear.

Aaron

[nascarmann]

Geeeezzzzzzz.......

[RuSsMaN]

'on the same level'

Whats your formula, 15% of your speaker cost, 10% of the rig cost.....?

[Zero]

heh Mine is simple. Whatever sounds best at the cheapest price. :D:D

[meestercleef]

Sort of a hijack here, but based on my current experience, I say don't forget decent stands or shelving. Altho the spkrs are on top & I am using rubber feet, the vibrations passing from the spkrs to the (cheap-ass) shelving below turn it into a reverb chamber, muddying up the sound. Looks like a stand-search is on my to-do list.

[Aaron]

'on the same level'

Whats your formula, 15% of your speaker cost, 10% of the rig cost.....?
I don't really have one. I can't say I've had enough experience mating different cables to different equipment to be able to give a blanket formula. Really, I doubt that there is any one formula that would work reliably. Do you have one that you think works? I think the bottom line is how much performance you get for a given amount of moneny. If someone can't hear the difference between a $50 interconnect and a $150 interconnect, or they feel that it doesn't perform $100 better, then there's no point in getting it. Basically just exercise common sense.

Aaron

[burdette]

Originally posted by Aaron

If someone can't hear the difference between a $50 interconnect and a $150 interconnect, or they feel that it doesn't perform $100 better, then there's no point in getting it. Basically just exercise common sense.


Can't you say the same thing about a $20 interconnect and either the $50 or $150 ones? Or about esoteric speaker wire vs. plain old decent 16 gauge zip? Or between a $100 CD/DVD player and a $1000 player?

I honestly believe there is a fair amount of "more expensive MUST be better" in audio/video. But as several guys have said, you have to wonder at what point more expense makes sense even if you *can* measure a difference. I mean.. how many guys can hear the difference between 0.001% THD vs. 0.01%? The one thing I do buy is that there are significant differences in amplifiers, such as current capacity under low impedence, that are important and can make a significant difference.

Ahh well... this could go on and on. Interesting to talk about... sort of strikes me as the "abortion issue" of audio politics.... I yam what I yam and dats all dat I yam...

[HBombToo]

I like the jumper cable idea myself.... Think when I get back I'm running up to Napa.

Sometimes I have to ask... My God, How did I get here?

[RBagbanly]

Hi there,

I've got couple of RTi28's and CSi30 hooked up as surrounds and surround back with 36-40 feet gauge 16 wire.

Is it enough, or I better get 12 gauge wire?

As for front RTi70's and CSi30 I decided to go with 12 gauge wire. Right now their are hooked with 6 feet 16 gauge wire.

RB

[HBombToo]

RBagbanly, how does your system sound?

40Ft of 16G may be a little lossy. Move into the 14G and let us know what you think. I am not an advocate of high end wire but heavier guage wire @ the Radio Shack can get you there for a few coins.

[RBagbanly]

Well, I can't call myself an audiophile, but I like what I hear.
I didn't try Paradigm Monitor series or Mission, just Bose, JBL and Cervin Vega. And Polks were the best in highs and mids. As for lows - there is PSW350 (well, I didn't wait for PSW303, but I hope there is some kind of trade in for subs, eh? :) )

Well, FX's as surrounds would be good, but room is quite small, so I'll be in the "blind" zone of FX speakers. And also I have 6.1 setup so, it's "mixing" sounds enough.

Basically, Polks are giving sound with minimal distortion, just what I need. But I don't think it is ultra super duper speakers. Just an honest system for a buck.

Technically speaking, there is not a big difference between gauge 16 and gauge 14 wires. Though difference between 16 and 12 is quite substantial. But I'm not sure, that my ears can "catch" it.

When I'll setup entertainment room in basement - I'll surely go for 12 gauge wire all around.

RB

[Zero]

Let me throw in my experience.

As far as wires go, my system is as mis-matched as possible.
I have Monster Cable Reference 2 hooking up to the source, and the amp. A decent cable.

I then have one unknown brand name, 18 gauge wire *maybe even 24* hooked up to the left speaker, and a 16 gauge Monster Cable XP hooked up to the right speaker. Guess what? No difference whatsoever.

I once had lowe's 12 gauge hooked up to both, I noticed NO difference at all. In fact, it almost sounded worst to me. Wasnt quite sure.

[HBombToo]

Here is an interesting page on Wire. Enjoy!


http://www.sundial.net/~rogerr/wire.htm#gordongow

[nascarmann]

I here ya HBomb....but what the hell does Gordon Gow know....;)

[HBombToo]

My question is who is Gordan? but I agree with what he is saying......

[nascarmann]

He is the big cheese at McIntosh......

[mantis]

Wire is wire..........just forget all the Monster,Straight,bettercables,Nortist,Transparent, Mit,Kimbercable,Etc.

If you can't hear any difference why even bother spending all that money.It doesn't make any sence to me?Home Depot and Radio shack make cheap wire, use it,why not its cheap and your system will not sound any worse nor better.Save that money for something else.

I'll just have to live with Transparent........that I can hear the difference.But If I knew before hand that it wasn't going to make any sonic difference?????Well then I wouldn't know any better.

[F1nut]

Put me down for the group that knows better cables make a difference......I've heard it with my own ears.

[HBombToo]

I'm just trying to apply some numbers to my research on a very subjective topic. No insult to any1 intended but from my standpoint I don't have the ear or the talent of words to effectively express such a subjective topic; therefore, I have focused on specifications and mathimatics.

[mantis]

but that won't tell you anything if you can or cannot hear it for yourself.

[HBombToo]

Troy, when you visited Polk Audio do you recall what speaker wires they used in their demo rooms?

Perhaps Polk can give us a little insight regarding their configuration...

Just curious.

HBomb

[TroyD]

You know, I have no idea. Wire isn't THAT important to me so I didn't even think to look.....

Maybe someone from Polk could tell us.....ahem...Mr. Cohen, line 2, please!

BDT

[nascarmann]

If it wasn't Transparent.......YOU CAN"T HEAR ANY DIFFERENCE!

[mantis]

nascarman,
So In your opnion you can't hear the difference between any other companies wire except Transparent?So what did you listen 2 2 come up with that statement?

I'd like you to share your insight on this matter alittle fuller.Would yeah?

[RuSsMaN]

Snore.......

[mantis]

if it makes you tired then don't read it or post on it.....add something.

[TheGrayGhost]

".....add something."

2 + 2 = 5

[nascarmann]

2 + 2 = 5 :lol:

[mantis]

whatever!!!!!!!

[HBombToo]

of course 2+2=5... every good engineer knows this!

[RuSsMaN]

The Beatles said 1 and 1 and 1 is Three....

....Hold you in his arms yeah you can feel his disease.....

Cheers,
The Eggman

[HBombToo]

You am the Wal_Russ! To many beeers already my friend!


Cock a Doodle Doooooooooo..........

[nascarmann]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA