Mylar caps in RTA 11T

[Jockos]

Are the yellow mylar caps in the RTA 11T electrolytic caps?

[Jockos]

After doing some research I believe the yellow mylar caps are film and foil. Anyone know the life expectency of these? I'm thinking of redoing the x-overs in my 11T's but putting in the solens looks daunting because of space restrictions. George D. has some good pics of the X-over's on heiny's x-over thread.
Thanks Jockos

[Disc Jockey]

While the Solens are significantly bigger than the stock caps, they are not really that hard to fit on the board. Dry fit them first and a little hot glue to hold them in place.

It's well worth the effort, a noticeable improvement.

[george daniel]

I should finish with mine in the next few days,I'll post a pic,,it's not really that difficult, I'm waiting on a resistor,the caps are in place,as mentioned above,dry fit first and you should not have a problem,,I went with solens because of the cost (doing upgrades on three pairs of speaks) have fun :)

[Disc Jockey]

Another thing you might want to do, just for fun and to hear the results of your efforts, is do one speak at a time. Then hook it up and compare to your unmodded speak. Let us know what you think.

[engtaz]

I should finish with mine in the next few days,I'll post a pic,,it's not really that difficult, I'm waiting on a resistor,the caps are in place,as mentioned above,dry fit first and you should not have a problem,,I went with solens because of the cost (doing upgrades on three pairs of speaks) have fun :)
And pics of the audio collections pretty please. Thread should be "george's place " LOL HTrookie's will be done before you know it.

[Jockos]

George, what value did you use for the 2.7uf resistor? I noticed that parts express does not carry a mills 2.7 12 watt. I was thinking of using the dayton ones though you have to modify(lengthen) the lead if you're going to mount them vertical. Maybe I'll just leave the originals in as I think resistors have a pretty long life span, the ones I took out of the 5's measured fine.

Jockos

[F1nut]

It's not about life span, it's about quality. Replace all the caps and resistors otherwise there's no point.

[george daniel]

George, what value did you use for the 2.7uf resistor? I noticed that parts express does not carry a mills 2.7 12 watt. I was thinking of using the dayton ones though you have to modify(lengthen) the lead if you're going to mount them vertical. Maybe I'll just leave the originals in as I think resistors have a pretty long life span, the ones I took out of the 5's measured fine.

Jockos

I replaced the resistors with mills, and the caps were solen,,,partsconnexion ,,, they have the resistors that you want/need.

[Jockos]

Just a few questions:
1.When ordering mills resistors from the parts connexion is a 2.7uf resistor listed as 2R7 MRA 5?
2.Are the 2 6510 drivers wired in series?
3. When soldering the components are you using heatsinks?
Thanks Jockos

[george daniel]

Just a few questions:
1.When ordering mills resistors from the parts connexion is a 2.7uf resistor listed as 2R7 MRA 5?
2.Are the 2 6510 drivers wired in series?
3. When soldering the components are you using heatsinks?
Thanks Jockos

1--yep
2-wiring/rewiring is simple enough(for me it has to be simple)
3- i just use a gem clip on the component to dissapate heat,, if I use anything.

[heiney9]

Just a few questions:
1.When ordering mills resistors from the parts connexion is a 2.7uf resistor listed as 2R7 MRA 5?
2.Are the 2 6510 drivers wired in series?
3. When soldering the components are you using heatsinks?
Thanks Jockos

1. yes
2. n/a for my 5b's
3. no heat dissipation is nec for the caps or resistors. Just be careful and take your time.

One note I learned the hard way. I replaced the wiring from the pcb to the drivers and had to cut the female sliding clips off the ends of the original wiring and couldn't reattach them at the time. I hard soldered the wire to the tweets and the driver. On the tweeters it's extremely delicate and when I unsoldered the sl2000 to replace it with the RD0 I eff'd up the sl2000. I subsequently sold the sl2000 and had tor refund the money due to the tweet not functioning. I used shrink fit tubing to reattach the female slider clips before replacing the RD0's.

The moral...........don't hard solder the wires to the terminals on the tweeters. Iw as very careful and still eff'd it up.

H9

[Jockos]

Thanks to all. I'm debating on just replacing the electrolytics with the same or going with the solens. I will definitely replace the mylar with solen. There is conjecture that if you change electrolytics with film you change the sound. Most say it sounds brighter. I'm very happy with my 5B change out. Will think about it..........................

[heiney9]

Thanks to all. I'm debating on just replacing the electrolytics with the same or going with the solens. I will definitely replace the mylar with solen. There is conjecture that if you change electrolytics with film you change the sound. Most say it sounds brighter. I'm very happy with my 5B change out. Will think about it..........................

Electrolytics in the signal path are less than ideal. Dump the electrolytics and get the Solen's. Otherwise, and this is my opinion, don't waste your time and effort. The RD0's are right up there as well if you really want to transform the speakers into something special.

[george daniel]

Like Jesse said,, if you are going "in",then replace the caps and resistors, the 11t's will require some forethought,as the caps are larger,I used the mills mra 12 watt resistors,and partsconnexion had everything that I needed--good luck.

[Jockos]

Thanks for the advice, I do have the RDO's already, nice tweeter. George did you finish your 11t's, please post pics.

Jockos

[george daniel]

tonight hopefully,,hooked em up last nite,,sweet,a worthwhile project,indeed.:cool:

[Jockos]

Hey George pics please!

[MillerLiteScott]

Here is a picture of mine.

[george daniel]

Here is a picture of mine.

I think the he means the crossovers,,, I'll get em up tonight when I get home,maybe,hopefully.

[MillerLiteScott]

I'm just a proud Papa.:D

And they do have the RDO's

[Jockos]

Thanks george. millerlite nice looking 11's, I always preferred the black ash. I have the vinyl walnut looks more cheap.

[danger boy]

Here is a picture of mine.

ahhh those look so much better with the RD0 tweeter over the SL2000 IMHO ;) and prob sound a heck of a lot better too. :D

[george daniel]

Here they are, I must say that this was certainly not the easiest crossover to upgrade due to space limitations,specifically cap size. Not the most eye appealing job either. Binding post are vampire BP-Hex, Tweeters (not shown) are the RDO replacements, but they do sound very good.

[Jockos]

Nice, what kind of wire did you use to lengthen the cap leads? Is that shrink tubing? Thanks for the pics,nowI know what I'm up against. Has the sound changed much?

Jockos

[MillerLiteScott]

ahhh those look so much better with the RD0 tweeter over the SL2000 IMHO ;) and prob sound a heck of a lot better too. :D


Not to mention just a cool looking speaker and driver layout. They are also very good with vocal sound stage. Not as good as SDA's but none the less good.

[george daniel]

Nice, what kind of wire did you use to lengthen the cap leads? Is that shrink tubing? Thanks for the pics,nowI know what I'm up against. Has the sound changed much?

Jockos

I had some cap leads that I used for extensions,yep that's shrink tubing before its shrunk. Haven't had much time to listen to them yet. I'll post some impressions as soon as I do. :)

[heiney9]

Looks like I got lucky when I did my 5b's. It seems the later Monitors had all the parts mounted vertically while my earlier 5b's had the parts mounted horizontally. Defineatly made it easier and looked a bit more appealing. I'm still amazed at how these things sound. :D :D . Listening to Norah Jones on them right now..........so sweet and smooth!!!

H9

[george daniel]

pic's on my mon 5's. The 11t's had a mylar cap mounted horzontally,while the other 2 caps were vertical

[heiney9]

pic's on my mon 5's. The 11t's had a mylar cap mounter horzontally,while the other 2 caps were vertical

Those are 5A's with the peerless, correct? When Jockos or one of the others did their later 5b's (with poly switches) I believe all the components were vertical. Who knows though, Polk was always changing things on the fly so there probably isn't one difinitive answer. Just look at all the differences in the SDA lines and models :p :p

[danger boy]

why are today's caps so much bigger than they used to be?

[heiney9]

why are today's caps so much bigger than they used to be?

So they can charge more! :D .

[george daniel]

Those are 5A's with the peerless, correct? When Jockos or one of the others did their later 5b's (with poly switches) I believe all the components were vertical. Who knows though, Polk was always changing things on the fly so there probably isn't one difinitive answer. Just look at all the differences in the SDA lines and models :p :p

Correctamundo ;) 5A's with the peerless, sweet,sweet speaks,especially when powered by tubes.

[billbillw]

Correctamundo ;) 5A's with the peerless, sweet,sweet speaks,especially when powered by tubes.

Are those my previous 5A peerless? If so, I'm glad to hear you're enjoying them. I find myself missing them more often than I would have thought. The Mirage have them beat in most ways, but the 5A were just so much fun.

[george daniel]

yes they are,,and they sound great with the asl mono's,,I intentionly set them on top of the 11t's,and it's amazing how many people think that it's the 11t's playing,,, and find out it's the 5's instead.. :D :D

[Disc Jockey]

Nice job George, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I didn't realize there were any differences in orientation of the caps between the 11t and the 11tl. The ones on my 11tl were all horizontal - sure made the job a lot easier!

[WilliamM2]

why are today's caps so much bigger than they used to be?

Actually, caps today are smaller than they used to be, especially electrolytics.

The reason they are bigger than the original Polk caps is because these are 400v caps, most the originals are 50v or less.

[F1nut]

That's partly true. However, film and foil caps are larger by nature even if they and an electrolytic are of the same voltage value.

[heiney9]

So they can charge more! :D .

PUN INTENDED

[Jockos]

I'm in luck, just pulled out my x-overs and all the components are lying horizontal, should be much easier! Just ordered from parts connection.
Jockos

[Jockos]

Just finished my x-over upgrade. Interesting note on the original is how the 12uf cap is placed over the resistor for space. I've included some pics on before and after. All caps were replaced with solens and resistors with mills 12w. The original tweeter cap was not electrolytic, I believe mylar. Intial listening session with upgrades is that the soundstage has moved forward. The highs seem dull and lifeless not crisp. The midrange sounds hollow at times. I do have the RDO tweeters. Will let the parts break in. If I still don't like the sound I have some BP electrolytics in the mail. Will keep the Solen for the mylar replacement. Maybe Polk used electrolytics for a certain voicing of the speaker not just cost.

Jockos

[engtaz]

Good work Congrats

[Jockos]

Does anyone know where to get those yellow mylar caps? Also does anyone have experience with the dayton caps or who makes them. The more I listen to the solens my speakers sound nasal.

[heiney9]

Just finished my x-over upgrade. Interesting note on the original is how the 12uf cap is placed over the resistor for space. I've included some pics on before and after. All caps were replaced with solens and resistors with mills 12w. The original tweeter cap was not electrolytic, I believe mylar. Intial listening session with upgrades is that the soundstage has moved forward. The highs seem dull and lifeless not crisp. The midrange sounds hollow at times. I do have the RDO tweeters. Will let the parts break in. If I still don't like the sound I have some BP electrolytics in the mail. Will keep the Solen for the mylar replacement. Maybe Polk used electrolytics for a certain voicing of the speaker not just cost.

Jockos


Break in will do wonders. Give them about 30-40 hours. I was initially disappointed when I did my 5b's, now they are maaaaaahhhhhvalous. :D

H9

[Jockos]

Thanks, if in 40 hours it still sounds funny I'm going to try the Daytons(bennics), alot of people seem to like these. Ive been comparing the high's to my 5'Bs and they seem much clearer, even my wife likes the sound of the 5'Bs better. But I'm going to wait and see. Question: is the first 12uf elec.(Polks specs.) with 2.0 resistor being used as a bypass cap to the mylar?

[F1nut]

Dayton/Bennic caps are crap made in China.

Yes, the stock yellow cap is mylar and no, it's not film and foil.

You have to let the new caps burn in for at least 50 to 100 hours. Put something on repeat, walk away and don't listen until you rack up enough hours. You can't judge the sound until then.

Maybe Polk used electrolytics for a certain voicing of the speaker not just cost.


Polk used electrolytics because they are cheap and available in mass quantities not because of how they sound.

Question: is the first 12uf elec.(Polks specs.) with 2.0 resistor being used as a bypass cap to the mylar?

NO!

[heiney9]

Also if your RD0's are new they need about the same amount of break in. I was always on the fence as far if break in was a myth or not. After using new parts and new tweeters it's very true.

Be patient and you will be rewarded.

H9

[Jockos]

Well I've had my stereo on for 3 days now and the speakers still don't sound right. To forward and kind of edgy. I will give it a few more days.
My question is if I decide to try a different cap what 12uf would make the most difference. The electrolytic with 2.0 ohm resistor or the mylar one. Looking at the original schematic it seems as though the mylar is the last filter before hitting the tweeter. I would like to just change 1 first and see how it sounds. Thinking of Dayton's and Clarity Caps.

Jockos

[heiney9]

Well I've had my stereo on for 3 days now and the speakers still don't sound right. To forward and kind of edgy. I will give it a few more days.
My question is if I decide to try a different cap what 12uf would make the most difference. The electrolytic with 2.0 ohm resistor or the mylar one. Looking at the original schematic it seems as though the mylar is the last filter before hitting the tweeter. I would like to just change 1 first and see how it sounds. Thinking of Dayton's and Clarity Caps.

Jockos

I'll be blunt you need more break in time. I forget are you using the RD0's or the sl2000? Dayton's are pretty crappy and not worth the time and effort. Give it some time. If you do still have the sl2000 that's where the problem is.

[Jockos]

I will give it a few more days. I have had the RDO's for almost a year now.

Jockos

[heiney9]

I will give it a few more days. I have had the RDO's for almost a year now.

Jockos

Sorry then, I am at a loss. They should sound really good. Yes, give it a few more days. The Solens are very nice parts compared to the standard stuff so I'm just not sure where to go from here.

[george daniel]

Well I've had my stereo on for 3 days now and the speakers still don't sound right. To forward and kind of edgy. I will give it a few more days.
My question is if I decide to try a different cap what 12uf would make the most difference. The electrolytic with 2.0 ohm resistor or the mylar one. Looking at the original schematic it seems as though the mylar is the last filter before hitting the tweeter. I would like to just change 1 first and see how it sounds. Thinking of Dayton's and Clarity Caps.

Jockos

I just did mine (11t's) with the exact same parts that you used,they sound fine,rdo's as well,, did you check the connections on the board that originate from the binding post ,as I had a minor issue with them(had to resolder) Good luck

[Jockos]

I just redid my crossovers with all Dayton 12uf caps.I kept the 33uf solen.
I did run into a small problem. I tried using my heat gun to soften all that hot glue I used to mount the Solen's. Upon doing so I accidently melted some of the black tape off my 33uf Solen exposing what looked to be coils of wrapped wire. The area is about the size of a 2mm oval. I put electrical tape on the area and even sealed the area of tape with glue. Is this O.K.? I believe the black tape is just used to insulate the cap? The 12 uf cap also had a small area melted off but since I replaced this I was not too concerned. I did measure the 12uf and it seemed fine.
How does it sound: Well after firing my system up my RTA 11's sounded like thespeaker I fell in love with; with more definition and clarity. Gone is the nasal and edgy sound. The tone with piano music was awesome. I'm extremely pleased with the results! Just hope I didn't damage the 33uf cap . Any info on capacitor construction would be appreciated.
By the way if anyone would like my 4 12uf solens and 2 mills 2.0 resistors give me a pm. Some of the leads are a little short and there is glue still on them.

Jockos

[ben62670]

PM sent

[F1nut]

Hmmm...different strokes for different folks, but how you can tell what new caps sound like right off the bat is a mystery to me.

Anyway, enjoy!

[Jockos]

Any advice or knowledge if the 33uf fix was sufficient? I figure if the original black tape was just tape then electrical tape would be ok. I don't think the tape affects the performance of the capacitor............

[heiney9]

Whatever works for you. They still need break in (the new caps). If it sounds fine then I would say you didn't damage the cap. DIY sure is fun isn't it.

H9

[Jockos]

Thanks, I tried to measure the cap in circuit but I get no reading. To my knowledge I don't think you can measure in circuit? For my knowledge does the 33uf block frequencies going to the bass drivers? I always thought the inductors did that. If I have to I'll just get another new one from PE, thinking of getting daytons for my 5B's too. Boy this hobby gets to be a real money pit, but it sure is fun!




Jockos

[Jockos]

Took out the crossover and measured the solen 33uf out of circuit, checked out great, that sure was alot of work.whew!

[PoweredByDodge]

re - caps.

metal film caps are typically some of the nicest products that you can buy. while they're not as 'uber cool' as aero-gel or others, they're spot on accurate to their spec, and non polarized. there's not a whole lot more you can ask of a piece of a purely immobile material. with the price difference between metal film and its supposed 'competitors' it makes no sense to opt for higher-grade parts unless you have a specific use (aircraft guidance systems, etc. would qualify as a 'specific use' -- environments of grossly high heat, or any other military spec project). given even the hottest house in florida or the coldest one in alaska, metal film will perform the same as anything else in a home or pro audio application.

edit... p.s. mtbf on most quality caps will be somewhere in the 100k hours or greater range. at 10 hours per day listening (assuming a worst case), that would be 27 years before you would be at the 100k hour mark.

[ben62670]

Thanks Jockos I received them already!
Ben

[Jockos]

I'm thinking of tweaking again so I have a question. What is the function of the 34uf capacitor in the 11T. Does it "block" higher frequency's to the MW6510's?

[Jockos]

Question: To increase capacitor values do you wire them in parallel or series? And how does that affect the voltage value?

Jockos

[GV#27]

Wire them in parallel to increase value,voltage is unchanged.

[heiney9]

Wire them in parallel to increase value,voltage is unchanged.

NM..........can't read correctly this early in the A.M.

H9

[GV#27]

It's my understanding that in order to increase the value (sum the value of multiple resistors) they need to be wired in series.

See here about mid page.

http://www.physchem.co.za/Current%20Electricity/Resistors.htm

H9
No,He was asking about capacitors.:) to increase the value they should be paralleled.C=C1+C2

[heiney9]

No,He was asking about capacitors.:) to increase the value they should be paralleled.C=C1+C2

Ahhhh....totally missed that word in his question :o . Then GV27 is absolutely correct, I'll go back and edit my earler post. The sleep is still in my eyes, sorry about that.

H9

[Jockos]

Thanks

[Jockos]

I was thinking about changing the 34uf capacitor out for another brand. How much would this affect sound quality?

[heiney9]

I was thinking about changing the 34uf capacitor out for another brand. How much would this affect sound quality?

If that's the one in the signal path for the tweeter then yes it should make a difference.

EDIT: provided the caps you replace it with is of higher quality and not merely a latteral move.

[Jockos]

I have 2 Solen 33uf caps if anyone can use them. 1 has electrical tape wrapped around for protection. There is some leftover glue on them. Just asking $5 for shipping. I'm going to go with Dayton all around. Since they don't have a 33uf will order the 30+4uf and parallel them. Right now I have 2 100v electrolytic in there and I like the sound much better. The highs caps are all daytons. The Solens just didn't work out for me.

Jockos

[GV#27]

Right now I have 2 100v electrolytic in there and I like the sound much better.
JockosMay I ask what you didn't like about sound when you put the Solen's in?Im' not familiar with your speaker but because it is rather large I assume it is in series with a midrange driver?

[Jockos]

Yes that is correct, originally I had upgraded my entire crossover with Solens and Mills resistors. When I put the Solens in, the sound seemed gritty and edgy also it sounded tubey. The soundstage was wider but too much emphasis on the midrange. After some research I replaced the 2 tweeter caps with daytons. There was definitely an improvement in the sound. I had read that in low pass sections the capacitors should not affect the sound. I decided to keep the low pass Solens in. However it still sounded too warm. The piano notes sounded dull. After I put the dayton electroylitics in the sound is more like the original voiceing albeit cleaner. By the way I did give the Solens time too break-in, about 75 hours. Just not for me.

Jockos

[danger boy]

i hope to expirement with a Solens, Mills, Kimber Kaps mix for a rebuild to my monitor 7B's here in a couple weeks. I did the monitor 7A's with Mills and Solens.. now it's time to mix it up a bit.

[GV#27]

ahh so it is a shunt cap in the low pass filter.I find it interesting that it had such an audible effect .Maybe it is something to do with polyprop having less ESR than the electrolytic?

[heiney9]

I guess in this case you have to be careful what you wish for. Recapping my 5b's with Solens and Mills really improved the sound, but I will admit they can be very finnicky about the source and the quality of a recording. Not everything I used to listen to on my office rig sounds as it did. They are much less forgiving of poor recordings especially the occasional MP3's I listen to.

Jockos, we all have to live with whatever we think is the right sound but you are one of the very few who is taking a step backwards and using electrolytics instead of polyprops. You tried it and din't like, I respect that.......but I guess I just can't get my head around it. Those Dayton caps really aren't as nice as the Solens but hey whatever works for you......that's all that matters.

I am going to be doing some experimenting with my 5b's as there is way too much upper midrange (too forward, not bright or harsh) just seems to overpower the rest of the music. I'm going to bypass the tweeter signal path Solen cap with a Sonic Cap Platinum and change the single Mills resistor from 2.0 ohm to 4.7 ohm to see if I can get the voicing a little more laid back and uniform.

These are ultra clear and the soundstage and definition of instrument is eerrie sometimes, but they are voiced a bit "hot" thru the typical female vocal range of freq. We will see what happens.

Rock on

H9

[Jockos]

heiney,

Your description of the upper midrange too forward is an excellent description. I have read some threads of people using clarity caps with good results, and they are also inexpensive. Good luck.

GV,

I'm surprised too, not being an electrical engineer I really don't understand the science involved and how the components interact with each other. I notice that polk uses electroyltics in there low pass section in all there crossovers, even the LSI's. I'm also wondering about the voltage difference. Most polks use caps rated at only 50v in there low pass sections with the exception of the LSI's which are 100v. Well I guess trial and error is part of the fun. I might keep the electroylitics in for awhile and if not then order the daytons for the low pass.

Jockos

[heiney9]

Funny thing is my SDA 1C's use the same type of drivers and essentially the same principle and many of the same components in the x-over and they are as laid and smooth as anything (except the LSi's) that I have laid ears on. The LSi's are only ever so slightly more detailed and laid back, but one has to be really familiar with both and the music playing to really notice; that's how close it is. I was hoping for the same with the 5b's.......not there yet.

Polks tweeters tend to produce more upper midrange than a typical speaker because the 6.5" drivers have to also create some bass so they seem to x the tweeters pretty low and I always thought that was why there is much upper midrange prominence, but not so with the 1C's (just the opposite actually). Makes me wonder.

Keep experimenting and keep us posted to what you find.

H9

P.s both the 1C's and 5b's have RD0's too.

[Jockos]

I'm looking for the round gaskets for the terminal cups, I'll try to post in troubleshooting.

[ka7niq]

I replaced the resistors with mills, and the caps were solen,,,partsconnexion ,,, they have the resistors that you want/need.
Solens are just 'average' sounding caps.
Not always better then all Mylars.
Madisound has the British Clarity Caps
for a really good price.
In two seperate reviews the Clarity Caps smoked the Solens.
In fact, to really beat the Clarity Caps you almost needto go to a Mundorf Supreme or a Hovoland.

Mills resistors sound great too.
For a cheap cap, I like the Bennic's Poly over the Solens.
But the Clarity Caps on Polk tweeters are pure magic!

I also replaced the tweeter caps in my B&W 801's with the Clarity Caps.
By FAR the best sounding cap I have used in the 801's.

The Clarity Caps are not that much more then the Solens, like a buck or two for a 6.8 mfd cap.

Call Madisound, they have them w/o stupid shipping charges too!

[heiney9]

I'm extremely happy with the Sonic caps in my SDA 1C's. I refreshed a pair of Polk Monitor 5b's recently and just am not 100% happy. They are better than they were but they are just still a bit to forward. I used Solens and Mills. I might just give the Clarity cap a try for the tweeters. @ $7 a pop it's worth experimenting.

First I'm going to bypass the Solen on the tweeter with a Sonic cap platinum series cap to see if that changes anything. If that doesn't work I might try a Clarity cap. They seem to get pretty good reviews from hardcore tweakers.

H9