Hybrid Cars

[Serendipity]

So - what's the general consensus on hybrid cars?

Are they worth it?

And if you are going to buy a hybrid car, which one would you choose?

[mhardy6647]

Mrs. H has a 2005 Ford Excape 4x4. She likes it, but it's fair to say we're a little disappointed by the mileage (30 to 35 mpg, depending upon terrain, temperature, and type of driving). This at least partly reflects the kind of driving she does; it would do better in stop and go, city-type driving. She's put 50,000 miles on it, so she's certainly given it a good shakedown.

There are zillions of Priuses (Prii?) in this area; their owners all seem to love them. The hybrid Camry is an interesting idea, too.

[venomclan]

The main Hybrid is the Toyota Prius. It is rated around 60 mpg, but temperature can play a factor and some people claim around 50 mpg. The good thing about the Prius, at least in my state, is that you can purchase a $10 window sticker that lets you drive in the HOV lane anytime. That is a big deal in traffic.

It is rumoured that the next generation Prius, coming soon will have 125mpg. A biodeisel hybrid is also a strong rumor.

The downside is that since this is new technogoly, the Prius had not been aging well in upper mileage. Batteries are warranteed for 7 years I think, as they will be a fortune to replace.

I suggest sticking with a good mpg car like the Honda Civic for now and waiting to see what comes down the road. They are making advances quickly.
V

[Serendipity]

Mrs. H has a 2005 Ford Excape 4x4. She likes it, but it's fair to say we're a little disappointed by the mileage (30 to 35 mpg, depending upon terrain, temperature, and type of driving).

I think 30 to 35 mpg is pretty good for an SUV, but that's just my opinion.

I like the Prius.

[mhardy6647]

It's not bad, but it's also a pretty small vehicle. Our 1993 Ford Explorer 4x4 (part time 4wd) got 20 mpg in the same kind of driving with the V6 engine, and was quite a bit larger & more powerful.

I like the Prius, too, and it may be my next car. I have a 2000 Ford Focus ZX3 5-speed which I like for commuting (long-distance, mostly high-speed). Gets about 34 mpg long-term average. It does frustrate me a bit that the first car my wife & I bought new (1988 Chevy Corsica 5-speed) was a larger, heavier car than the Focus, but got significantly better mileage (close to 40 mpg in the same kind of driving). Somewhere between 1987 and 2000, the car manufacturers all decided we wanted more powerful engines. There was an article on this topic in the WSJ a week or so ago.

[Serendipity]

Somewhere between 1987 and 2000, the car manufacturers all decided we wanted more powerful engines. There was an article on this topic in the WSJ a week or so ago.

I think most people want more fuel-efficient engines nowadays IMO.

[Refefer]

Well, Consumer Reports released a little while back that the mpg is not nearly as good as advertised in hybrid cars; in their tests, they discovered that the actual mpg was around 50% of the sticker price. The reason for this huge shortfall is because car manufacturers "assumed" that you'd be spending a lot of time in stand still traffic, where they can conveniently turn off their engine.

Here's an interesting resource: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/maintenance-accessories/surprising-facts-about-gas-mileage-1005/overview/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=3&searchTerm=hybrid%20fuel%20efficiency

[Serendipity]

Well, Consumer Reports released a little while back that the mpg is not nearly as good as advertised in hybrid cars; in their tests, they discovered that the actual mpg was around 50% of the sticker price. The reason for this huge shortfall is because car manufacturers "assumed" that you'd be spending a lot of time in stand still traffic, where they can conveniently turn off their engine.

Here's an interesting resource: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/maintenance-accessories/surprising-facts-about-gas-mileage-1005/overview/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=3&searchTerm=hybrid%20fuel%20efficiency

In NYC most of the time you're in stand still traffic. Especially during rush hour.

It's cheaper to take a taxi in Manhattan than to drive.

[Refefer]

In NYC most of the time you're in stand still traffic. Especially during rush hour.

It's cheaper to take a taxi in Manhattan than to drive.

I'll give you that.

Then again, how many people live in NYC versus the rest of the country?

[Serendipity]

I do. And I think a hybrid car is very practical for a place like NYC.

[Serendipity]

So - between similar models, such as the Toyota Camry Hybrid and Nissan Altima Hybrid, is the hybrid technology basically the same? Is one necessarily better than the other?

[bobman1235]

Most of your questions would be better answered by research - I'm sure people here have information and opinions, but they're probably going to be tainted a bit, and no offense to anyone here, but it's doubtful they'll be accurate.

I have ot ask anyway - why are you buying a hybrid car? There's three reasons, and only one of them is really valid to me :
1) to save the environment - the jury's still out on the environmental impact - yes you're saving on fossil fuels, but I've read conflicting reports on other environmental aspects. Not to mention, that if you really cared, you wouldn't drive to begin with. Especially living in MANHATTAN - if you care about the environment, walk or take a bike or public transportation.
2) to save money on gas - you won't. it takes YEARS to offset the added cost of the hybrid itself, which is still much more expensive than a standard gasoline vehicle, PLUS added maintenance costs, PLUS having to possibly have a HUGE cost of replacing a battery down the road.
3) to promote the technology, which is the only truly valid reason. If you believe hybrids are the wave of the future, and you want your automobile purchase money to go towards that goal, all power to you.

[Serendipity]

I'm not necessarily buying a hybrid car. I'm just interested in them.

See the following thread: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53334

I'm just doing research because I might be getting my FIRST car in a few years or so.

[Serendipity]

2) to save money on gas - you won't. it takes YEARS to offset the added cost of the hybrid itself, which is still much more expensive than a standard gasoline vehicle, PLUS added maintenance costs, PLUS having to possibly have a HUGE cost of replacing a battery down the road.


You won't save money on gas? I was always under the impression that hybrids save money on gas.

Maybe you won't save money overall, because the savings don't offset the additional costs associated with the vehicle, but I still think you're going to save money on gas. I may be wrong though :)

[bobman1235]

Wise ass :) You get my point.

[petrym]

Hybrids are a great marketing hype right now, but you have to remember that the technology in current models was developed several years ago. Give it a couple more years to get a sense of direction, then spring for one.

[Serendipity]

Hmm, if you disregard the additional costs associated with owning a hybrid car, you are still saving on gas. That's what I mean.

So it's more like an upfront investment - you're paying more for the car but you do save on petrol. Which I like.

[VR3]

I want a car with a V8 and 350 HP... RWD

I bet it'll get a good 20ish mpg... thats good enough.

I like the Chrysler 300c

[Serendipity]

I want a car with a V8 and 350 HP... RWD

I bet it'll get a good 20ish mpg... thats good enough.

I like the Chrysler 300c

Do you drive fast?

[VR3]

Not hardly... just like to drive fun vehicles...

[Serendipity]

I'm not looking for a "fast" car. Besides where I'm from you can't go fast anyways. It's more like stuck in traffic most of the time.

But yeah I hear ya Sid.

[Serendipity]

Not hardly... just like to drive fun vehicles...

You should check out the new Corvette then. A friend of mine is most likely getting one.

[Refefer]

I do. And I think a hybrid car is very practical for a place like NYC.

I got ya, and agreed. Of all the hybrid cars listed by CR, the Prius got the best city, highway, and overall mpg of any hybrid at 35/50. You'll have to look to see how much the batteries are costing these days to replace, but that's the surest.

[Bill Ayotte]

Hmm, if you disregard the additional costs associated with owning a hybrid car, you are still saving on gas. That's what I mean.

So it's more like an upfront investment - you're paying more for the car but you do save on petrol. Which I like.

What about something like a Diesel Jetta? Diesel has been cheaper around here anywhere from 10-40 cents as of late, and the figures on that are something around mid 40s city and 52 highway....It is about the same concept you mentioned above, only you are paying less per gallon for gas at the same time...Diesel technology is only improving by the day now too...

[dudeinaroom]

My best friend has an '07 corvette with one of those mpg computers in the dash. He was on the phone with me cruising down the freeway at 70 mph in 6tth gear getting 40mpg. I told him I have to get the tranny out of one of those anf throw it in my van. As far as hybrids go... yes you may save money on gas, but is it going to be worth the extra money up front? As far as polution goes, I read somewhere that to manufacturing them puts off 3 times as much pollutants than making a hummer. How safe are they in a crash? Cars today a designed with "crumple" zones to absorb impact. So what happens when the car crumples, the windows shatter and the batteries spew acid all over?

[Face]

My 98 Corvette used to average 30mpg on the parkway when I had a few bolt ons(intake, headers, and exhaust). 3.73's only lowered the mpg by 1 or 2. Now that I have 3.90's, a 4400 stall converter, and over 400rwhp(500+ crank), I average about 20 on the parkway.

[venomclan]

Not hardly... just like to drive fun vehicles...

Hey Sid,
I have a purple Yugo with a hood scoop and 20"s I am looking to unload...
V

[tonyb]

Man,I remember those Yugo's.Seen go-carts put together better than
those pieces of crap.

[bobman1235]

Hmm, if you disregard the additional costs associated with owning a hybrid car, you are still saving on gas. That's what I mean.

So it's more like an upfront investment - you're paying more for the car but you do save on petrol. Which I like.

Investments are designed to make money. For a hybrid car, it takes a long time, if ever, to make money on your investment. So I wouldn't consider it an investment, I would consider it throwing money away.

It's like me telling you I could sell you a $500 device that would save you $100 on gas. Would you buy it?

[Lasareath]

Me and the WTB are planning on getting a Prius and sending it directly to www.CalCars.org and have them install the plug-in system. Then we'll have a Plug-In Prius with a 108 miles range before the gas engine turns on.

[tcrossma]

Camry Hybrid is my choice.

tim

[venomclan]

Investments are designed to make money. For a hybrid car, it takes a long time, if ever, to make money on your investment. So I wouldn't consider it an investment, I would consider it throwing money away.

It's like me telling you I could sell you a $500 device that would save you $100 on gas. Would you buy it?

There really is no way to calculate that investment, it is dependant on the area, how much one drives, etc...

If you are looking to get a car in the price range of a Prius anyway, then the investment section is moot. Spending an "extra" xxx amount of $ to get the hybrid version is the only deciding factor. Will it pay off, maybe.

For me, a hybrid would pay off quick. I drive 65 miles round trip each day. I live in a warm area. The hybrid allows me to drive in the HOV lane, saving a lot of time. Someone driving less in a colder climate would not see a return so fast.

I would prefer a biodeisel option over a hybrid. Or better yet, the biodiesel hybrid or ethanol hybrid would maximise mileage.
V

[markmarc]

i don't plan on getting another car for at least 5 years as both of our vehicles have low miles (95 Accord 98K & 2000 Galant 67K). But when I do, it will be some form alternative vehicle. My hope is that by that time a wide range of options are available for the type of alternative vehicle (mini hybrid, hybrid, diesel, diesel hybrid, electrical).

It's so critical with China's double-digit increase in oil consumption yearly, and India not far behind, that we find a way to reduce our dependence on imported oil. The boys in Detroit can scream all they want, but they know the truth, they can easily meet the future fuel standards, and as a country any way that we can avoid the obvious upcoming oil wars will only benefit our country.

[cmy330go]

My wife and I were recently considering a hybrid vehicle. After much research and driving we went the route of a VW Jetta TDI (Diesel). So far we absolutely love it. On the highway cruising at about 65-70mph I was getting just under 50mpg. That's on a brand new engine. From what I've been reading I will likely see significant gains as the engine continues to break-in.

I really like the fact that I'm getting hybrid like mileage out of a tried and true engine technology that is known for it's extremely long lifespan.

To top it off....this car was by far the most enjoyable/fun to drive. All the hybrids were just plain boring.

[audiobliss]

There you go. He expressed my views on this matter pretty much in its entirety.

[ben62670]

My wife and I were recently considering a hybrid vehicle. After much research and driving we went the route of a VW Jetta TDI (Diesel). So far we absolutely love it. On the highway cruising at about 65-70mph I was getting just under 50mpg. That's on a brand new engine. From what I've been reading I will likely see significant gains as the engine continues to break-in.

I really like the fact that I'm getting hybrid like mileage out of a tried and true engine technology that is known for it's extremely long lifespan.

To top it off....this car was by far the most enjoyable/fun to drive. All the hybrids were just plain boring.

I think that VW is bio diesel compatible too. I just had bad luck with VW.

[Bill Ayotte]

My wife and I were recently considering a hybrid vehicle. After much research and driving we went the route of a VW Jetta TDI (Diesel). So far we absolutely love it. On the highway cruising at about 65-70mph I was getting just under 50mpg. That's on a brand new engine. From what I've been reading I will likely see significant gains as the engine continues to break-in.

I really like the fact that I'm getting hybrid like mileage out of a tried and true engine technology that is known for it's extremely long lifespan.

To top it off....this car was by far the most enjoyable/fun to drive. All the hybrids were just plain boring.

I have heard the same thing about the MPG....I just hope the rumors of a new diesel Rabbit coming out next year are true....I know the Jetta is coming back, but I want something smaller...I really hope it at least has the leatherette interior as well....The only VW cloth worth a damn is the new GTI and the MKIV Recaro interior...The rest is kinda ho-hum if you ask me....

[bobman1235]

I think that VW is bio diesel compatible too. I just had bad luck with VW.

You and everyone else. Very fun car to drive, until it breaks and puts you in the poorhouse.

[cmy330go]

I understand that people have had problems with power windows and such on the previous models, but from what I've heard the current models are quite solid.