Refurb'd Denon 5803 for $7-800.......should I?

[brettw22]

Ok......so a friend of mine can get his hands on a refurb model of the 5803 for HELLA cheap. I was curious about you guys thoughts on refurb'd stuff like this.

I haven't ever bought anything used as far as receivers go, but i would think that if it's factory spec'd, then all should be good. Granted the 90 day warranty is ****, but who really has that many problems with receivers that just sit on a shelf........

Lemme know your thoughts............Thanks

[mantis]

dude refurbed receivers are nothing more then brand new ones redone for warranty work...your in good shape there,not to mention Denon just got done testing the entire receiver.......but it and buy it now.

you can't get into a flagship for 7-800 bucks thats super well below cost......**** I'm in no way looking for a receiver but for that kind of money hell Id buy 2.

[nascarmann]

I must agree with mantis.....get it! Get it NOW.....

[hoosier21]

If I where you I would let me get it :)

[mantis]

Check that out nascarman and myself agreeing.......whats the forum coming 2.

Good on yeah bro!!!!:cool:

[F1nut]

Yeah, and the weather is really strange today.....:D

[jrausch]

As long as it's not from U-bid, you’re golden. Hell a broken unit that needs fixing is worth that much. Even if you had to kick down another $500 to fix it, you could still get all of your money back, if not more. If ya got it, do it.

[TroyD]

Hell yeah, I'd snag that on principle alone. Even though it only really produces around 80wpc, 82 I think is what liv4fam bench tested it at, I think it's a great deal.

BDT

[brettw22]

I thought that someone had bench tested the 5800, not the 5803. How can a receiver that's rated for 170x5 actually only pump out 85?

I don't get that.........

[TroyD]

I don't get it either....I was being sarcastic.

BDT

[mantis]

read the spec's again and see of anything makes any sence.

something about 1 channel driven in an 8 ohm load at a certian khz or something....you might want to lok into it..and yes it was the avr5800 not the new avr5803.......

All channels driven at full bandwith was????????

[TroyD]

Key Features:
170 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.05% THD
dual 32-bit SHARC processors for surround decoding (THX Surround EX, DTS-ES, Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic, DTS Neo:6, and ALPHA 24 processing

.....sounds like full range specs to me.


That's from Crutchfield, so I'm going to assume that they got that from Denon.

Also, and this is nitpicking, even if they did give the specs at 1Khz, I doubt the disparity would be THAT big (~90wpc)

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

Hey, bench test tells me all I need to know. I wonder what gear it was measured with? A park bench? A bench press?

;)

Cheers,
Rooster

[nascarmann]

Also, and this is nitpicking, even if they did give the specs at 1Khz, I doubt the disparity would be THAT big (~90wpc)
One would add about 10% from 20-20 to 1Khz....

I wonder what gear it was measured with? A park bench? A bench press?
Probably a bench press.....I was bench pressing over 400wpc 15 years ago....:D

[PETERNG]

Originally posted by brettw22
Ok......so a friend of mine can get his hands on a refurb model of the 5803 for HELLA cheap.
Lemme know your thoughts............Thanks

this is BS...whoever sold this must be arrested....

[brettw22]

Originally posted by PETERNG
this is BS...whoever sold this must be arrested....

huh?

[mantis]

seem to be missing all channels driven.

[TroyD]

170 watts x 7 into 8 ohms

seems like all channels driven to me.

BDT

[nascarmann]

At 85 bench press wpc......

[Dr. Spec]

I think what Mantis is getting at is there is a difference between the rated specs for each channel, and the rated specs for each channel when they are all driven at the same time.

For example, all 5 channels on my Kenwood are 100W RMS 20-20K @ <0.09% THD. While that specification is impressive, what they don't tell you is that this is with each channel tested separately.

Run all five channels into a test load at the same time, and my amplifier won't make a true 500 watts. According to that website which bench tested all these HT receivers, mine runs out of steam somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-60 watts per channel when they are all driven simultaneously.

This may look bad on paper, but it's really only about 3 dB less than it would be at a true 100 watts. Also, how often in the real world (i.e., watching a DVD) will a HT receiver or amplifier be called on to deliver its rated power into all five channel at the same exact time? Not often I would guess. Also, who pushes their rigs to the max anyway? I like to give my amp about 15 dB of headroom for peaks and to avoid clipping. Even then it's damn loud.

Regardless, the new buzz phrase on the block is quoting the rated power and specifications for the amp with "all channels driven simultaneously".

Unless the Denon in question was rated that way by the manufacturer, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it only made 85-90 WPC with all channels driven at once. Again, this is only 3 dB difference than the rated power of 170 watts and would be all but inaudible except under extremely demanding source material.

Doc

[PETERNG]

Originally posted by brettw22


huh?

dam it!!! do I need to say out loud? if it's too good to be true, it's not true, it's a total BS... The Denon 5803 is also a new model and Denon put it out in the market not too long ago, within that short period of times, and they already have a full stock of refurb items available for $800-$900? Also if this is the Denon 's top of the line receiver, why do they already have so many returns and unhappy customers as the results? I think we've done with this subject here...:mad:

[TroyD]

Doc,

I would agree with what you are saying, and to be honest, I was just picking on Dan (good heartedly). As far as amp power ratings, I do take them with a huge grain of salt.

In all reality, as I said before, it's a fairly moot point because under most normal applications, 50wpc rms is more than sufficient.

BDT

[brettw22]

Originally posted by PETERNG
dam it!!! do I need to say out loud? if it's too good to be true, it's not true, it's a total BS... The Denon 5803 is also a new model and Denon put it out in the market not too long ago, within that short period of times, and they already have a full stock of refurb items available for $800-$900? Also if this is the Denon 's top of the line receiver, why do they already have so many returns and unhappy customers as the results? I think we've done with this subject here...:mad:

Peter, I would recommend a more loose fitting pair of underwear.

My friend has an A/V business that he does on the side and I'm buying this from his wholesaler, so why are you all P.O.'d? My question wasn't whether this was upsetting to anyone....just what the verdict of refurbished equipment was.

Thanks to those that have responded......and not been so uptight about it. :)

[liv4fam]

Listen Dr.Spec is 100% correct.TroyD you got it from the spec's and no real world testing.And once again your talking out of where the sun don't shine.Now that I'm thinking about it I think where you talk is where you end and nascarman starts.Are you 2 the same people or what?

[liv4fam]

Can you feel that..HUH HUH HUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[liv4fam]

CAN ONLY DREAM ABOUT IT.

[TroyD]

I guess we got Mr. Hyde today. Did we forget our medication again?

OK, so why are we not suing Denon for false advertising?

More to the point, is it really relevant to anything?

BDT

[TroyD]

Also, maybe in one of your lucid moments, how about giving a rundown and maybe a review of some of your gear, other than the receiver which you said sucks? I mean, you've been pretty critical of everyone else's, so I figure you got to have some good stuff.

Also, don't start with the 'I've demoed or I've installed.....' biz, because it doesn't count, if it's in an audio shop, any of us can do the same. Second, as you love to point out, there is nothing like experience.

BDT

[scottvamp]

Nit picking the bench specs of Denons $4000 flagship reciever.:confused:
I would love to own that beast. Who in the hell really thinks that they would be driving 7 rt/lsi speakers at a true 170 watts of power? Blown speakers and bleeding ears!;)

[mantis]

nit picking wasn't the intention just pointing out the fact that spec's aren't the be all end all dude.

[PETERNG]

Spec's that posted by the manufcturer are not always true and sometimes are misleading. If you want to ask them any question to verify, their answer will be: "those spec's are based on our testing standards", and nobody know what those standards were. I think just post is a completed joke. "My friend has an A/V business that he does on the side and I'm buying this from his wholesaler, so why are you all P.O.'d? " if this what you said is true, Denon will probably terminate his contract to represent them as authorized dealer.

[nascarmann]

Denon will probably terminate his contract to represent them as authorized dealer.

Why is this? You going to call them and rant like you have here....

[TroyD]

Pete, I dunno, as far as refurbs go, I don't think Denon could say squat. They are all over ubid (hell, I got my 1801 for 199 two years ago) and other places as well.

BDT

[brettw22]

Maybe I haven't understood your apparent anger with regard to this post Peter........

Is what I'm seeing actually misplaced anger to cover up your jealousy? The clinical term might be something close to retail envy........ :D

I'm getting this direct from the wholesaler, so I'm not paying some sales persons commission, rent for a showroom, electrical bills, etc.......

Anyway, the order has been placed and, God willing, I should have it in my hands on Friday. I suppose if I told you that I was getting a brand new Monster HTS5100 for $200 that would piss ya off too, right? <<shrug>> oh well...........

[nascarmann]

I suppose if I told you that I was getting a brand new Monster HTS5100 for $200 that would piss ya off too, right? <<shrug>> oh well...........

It's pissin me off.....:D

[brettw22]

Originally posted by nascarmann
It's pissin me off.....:D

yet again.............. OH WELL!!!!!!!! :lol:

[PETERNG]

Looks guys, may be I should put my .02 cents in to this to get the conversation go this far. I just don't believe your story, that's all. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you get what you ordered. You can also make $200 to $300 profit instantly if you want because I will offer to buy it from you for $1000, I only ask if you include the original bill of sale with it. Nothing personal...

Troy, you're are correct, I have no contest on your statement, sorry about your new DVD man, I have another pair of the MC M cable sit and collect dust in the closet.

Hey nascarmann, I did get the brand new HTS 5100 for less than $200, so pissing off is not an issue here... cheers...:)

[MxStYlEpOlKmAn]

dosnt a 5803 or whatever cost 4000 5000 store price...that must of been one messed up machine and been fixed up to drop down to 700 dollars...thats sorda like getting a 500 dollar speaker for 700 dollars..

[NDTA]

No, I think based on what they said here, you get it for 25 cents on a dollar. Must be one of a real F*** machine that they (Denon) don't want to see it any more. Still it'sd one heck of a deal if it's true...I say go get it and hold on to it....and have a good dream....

[jrausch]

Deals can be had. I just landed a new pair of $430 Def Tech inwalls for a $100 off of e-bay. Just one of those things that was poorly advertised and few were looking. :D

[brettw22]

It's not as if this is ONE unit that is out there. Hell......Harman Kardon used to have a store up north of Phoenix a bit that sold nothing but refurbed stuff, and the deals were excellent, thus my DVD50 and the CDR2.

Going through a wholesaler/distributor is just cutting the retail out of it and attacking it from a cost standpoint.

I'll letcha know what i see tomorrow when I'm supposed to go and pick the thing up.

[Janusch]

I did feel good about the deal I got on a Denon 5800 ($1600) a month ago, and was thinking about upgrading it for to the 5803
for $800 because of all the money I saved.

Now I come to find out that I could have gotten the 5803 for just the upgrade price. I think I'm going to cry in some beer over the weekend while listening to my outdated peice of .....

[TroyD]

See, that's one of the reasons I like good ol' 2.0. No worries about not having the latest and greatest.......


BDT

[brettw22]

Ever have friends/acquaintances that are such flakes that you wanna kick their ass on a weekly basis?

Dumba$$ got stuck at work with the DM at his store and couldn't get away so now it'll be at least another week until I have a chance to get in and pick up my equipment.

Anyway, just wanted to vent how PISSED I am. Maybe I'm dilusional in thinking that I'm a patient person........:)

[PETERNG]

well...are you a happy guy after all???

[brettw22]

I've been out of town for a few week in Kansas City and haven't been home to deal with the whole thing. He says that he has it, but I'm just waiting for somethin to come up and delay my picking it up..........

I'll let y'all know when I get it and how it works.......