Nightline tonight: Parents blame mercury for autism [Archive]

exalted512

06-26-2007, 11:40 AM

Couldnt really careless what parents think about what causes autism, what do the doctors think? I heard on the news the other day that a bunch of parents thought it was all the shots we get as kids now, and I'm pretty sure doctors have already dismissed that from being the case...I agree, it does need to be brought up more, but spreading rumors is not the way to do it. Not that I'm saying its not true, but like I said, parents are far from experts so I'll start listening when the experts chime in.
-Cody

ben62670

06-26-2007, 11:52 AM

My little one has autism, and she is less than 2. They supposedly have not been using the preservatives had supposedly cause autism for 5 years. Lots of kids are born with autism at a steadily increasing rate. It would be nice to figure out what is causing it.
Ben

Shizelbs

06-26-2007, 11:53 AM

Vaccines are not causing autism.

Refefer

06-26-2007, 12:56 PM

My sister works in school psychology and has had the opportunity of learning a great deal about Autism. Her opinion on the matter is we're still a ways off to figuring out what causes it and the opinions expressed on the show last night were representative of just one of several different competing theories, each one with quite a bit of evidence to support theirs as victor.

The good news from this is that there are several scientists working out figuring out, and possibly preventing, autism now. With luck, the answer isn't too far off.

jdhdiggs

06-26-2007, 02:31 PM

Oh, goody a Hg thread, and I just got my popcorn! Go get 'em Shelby!

Me? I'll believe medical science over a crackpot with an agenda anyday.

jm1

06-26-2007, 04:20 PM

Not to derail the original topic of the thread, but there is a similar avenue of thought with fluoride. The book “The Fluoride Deception (http://www.amazon.com/Fluoride-Deception-Christopher-Bryson/dp/1583225269)” shows compelling evidence that higher interests have colluded to obscure and hinder any honest disclosure of fluoride toxicity. I can’t help to wonder what else has been given this treatment.

For an introduction to the book contents, watch this interview (http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/The-Dangerous-Fluoride-Deception-You-Need-to-be-Aware-Of-19209.aspx) with the author.

Coincidently, I visited the dentist last night. He said my teeth are looking much better and inquired about what I was doing different since the last visit. I didn’t have the heart to tell him (possibly for the good of his career) we have tried to eliminate all possible sources of fluoride from our house.

Demiurge

06-26-2007, 04:31 PM

I blame Mars.

GermanVirgins

06-26-2007, 04:46 PM

Im not sure if vaccinations are the cause of the increased incidences of autism.

These chemicals are included in the vaccinations. This list is fact and indisputable. Remember, this chemical potion is not being injected into your average 175lb man, but wrather our newborn infants.

Formaldehyde
Aluminum
Bovine Serum
2-Phenoxyethanol ( main ingredient in antifreeze)

2-Phenoxyethanol replaced thimerosal about five years ago. Thimerosal is a mercury dirrivative.

The Environmental Protection Agency considers mercury a hazordous material.

Shizelbs

06-26-2007, 04:55 PM

Damnit. I don't have the patience for junk science today.

cfrizz

06-26-2007, 05:47 PM

Oh dear God! Are we back to this again??

It's a bunch of BS.
We don't care.
They are just looking for someone to sue. (see the crazy judge thread)
They are just crazy.
They smoked/shot/inhaled dope & gave their kid autism!

Get a life!:rolleyes:

jdhdiggs

06-26-2007, 05:50 PM

Damnit. I don't have the patience for junk science today.

Dang it Shelby, if I have to make time to debunk junk economic threads, the least you can do is fight the junk medicine threads! WTH man? :mad:

;)

hearingimpared

06-26-2007, 06:10 PM

Opinions before or after watching it?

You are a glutton for punishment!

candyliquor35m

06-26-2007, 06:27 PM

You are a glutton for punishment!

I'm staying on the sidelines this time. I'm just the messenger.

It airs tonight (tues.) and I've got my vcr set and now my alarm on my phone.

Shizelbs

06-26-2007, 06:31 PM

Im not sure if vaccinations are the cause of the increased incidences of autism.

There is currently no research or medical literature that shows any link between mercury, thimerosal, anything vaccine related and autism. I just got back from a huge immunization conference in Portland. The head person from the CDC for immunizations was there and talked at length about the subject. His conclusion, as well as mine, is that there is no link between autism and vaccines.

Its natural to want to find a cause or reason for something, but immunizations are not the answer to the cause of autism.

Shizelbs

06-26-2007, 06:34 PM

Let us not forget the enormous indisputable benefit that mass immunizations brings to the country. Vaccines are an invaluable asset to current public health policy.

Shizelbs

06-26-2007, 06:35 PM

Dang it Shelby, if I have to make time to debunk junk economic threads, the least you can do is fight the junk medicine threads! WTH man? :mad:

;)

I'm sorry. You are correct.

Shizelbs

06-26-2007, 06:38 PM

Also, except for some of the one's done by John Stossel, these evening news programs and their 'investigative reporting' and usually very biased and wrong. For those of you watching the program, please keep that in mind. They have their own agenda as well.

I've watched three different episodes where they reported on things related to pharmacy. And three times I've been angered by their frustrating reporting which spouts lies as truth and their total mismanagement of facts. They cannot report a story correctly to save their lives. Most of what they say will go unchallenged by the lay public.

I'll try my best to watch it if I have the time.

pearsall001

06-26-2007, 07:24 PM

How's about the food we eat? If you can actually call it that. Our bodies are bombarded with more chemicals, poisions, preservatives, additives, & the like to keep things fresh & looking oh so yummy. Our bodies have to fight back somehow. There's more weird **** popping up now than ever before with our overall health. Now, let's not forget our friend "Mercury"...ban the tuna 'cause it's got mercury contamination...but come sit in my dentist chair & let me drill holes in your mouth & pour it in. Yeah baby! Oh, and Flouride my new best friend...the most lethal poison known to man..let's put in the water & drink up me hardies!! Srubb, scrub, scrub your teeth with this wonderful poison & smile for the man. Ever wonder why almost every other country on planet earth has banned fluoride? Not here, too much money at stake. Vaccines, the juries still out on this one but I guarantee you'll never hear a bad thing about them from our doctors & government. Way too much at stake, & I ain't talking health either. Damn, I could sure go fo a nice Philly cheesesteak with some cheese fries & a nice fluoride bottle of water to wash it down!!! :D

jdhdiggs

06-26-2007, 07:35 PM

too much money at stake? For who? Damn those flouride barons and their damn lobbiests!

hearingimpared

06-26-2007, 08:18 PM

Some of this **** is down right ridiculous. . . okay so why don't we ban iodine now. . . it just kept a whole generation from goiter. I'm surprised someone didn't come up with iodine causes high blood pressure, oh yeah right too much salt cause that!!!. . . but there was a study that showed some people were allergic to iodine thus plain salt. Cut me a break with all this BS.

It appears we can't think for ourselves and the way to our hearts is with sensationalism.

Bacon caused cancer for two years then it turned out it was good for you. . . Sweet 'n' Low causes cancer! they forgot to tell you that they gave rats the equivelant of 800 packets a day! WTF.

Which way is the wind blowing today. . . blah blah blah!!!

pearsall001

06-26-2007, 08:20 PM

You're good to go as long as they don't find anything bad about chicken wings!

Dennis Gardner

06-26-2007, 08:25 PM

If Mercury is to cause for autism, are we going to diss it as a planet as we did Pluto?

Just askin...........

hearingimpared

06-26-2007, 08:36 PM

You're good to go as long as they don't find anything bad about chicken wings!

They already did, "Buffalo.":D :D :D

McLoki

06-26-2007, 08:54 PM

Here are some autism facts for you:

The Treffert study (1970) concluded that for people born between 1954-1964 the rate of autism was 3.1 per 10,000

The Burd study (1987) concluded that for people born between 1967-1983 the rate of autism was 3.26 per 10,000

The Ritivo study (1989) concluded that for people born between 1960-1984 the rate of autism was 2.47 per 10,000

The current rate (as determined by a February 2007 multi-state study by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention) is now 67 per 10,000. (1 in every 150 kids born today)

Blame or ignore what you want - but the facts are the rate is increasing dramatically and there needs to be a clear understanding of why. As the parent of 2 autistic children, I am past the "I want someone to blame" and into the "what the hell do I do now" stage. The cost of caring for a child (through adulthood) with autsim is 2 - 2.5 million. (http://www.laleva.cc/choice/autism.html)

Obviously much of that cost has to be picked up by the government. The strain this will end up causing on society and government is not only emotional but financial as well. The costs of therapy is staggering. (and try to find a daycare that is willing to deal with it) - I dare say it is definately more than most families can afford on their own.

This is not a problem that you can ignore and make go away. No one knows what causes Autism and anyone who says they do is lying (at least for now). I do fully understand parents at their wits end looking for something that will help get them through the day. For some it is looking for someone to blame, for others it is grasping at straws looking for anything that has the possilbity of making it easier to care for their children and making their childs struggle to understand the world less of a challenge.

As far as studies conducted by the immunization companies and councels. I let them hold as much weight with me as studies by the cigarette companies in the 1950's.

Personally I think it is a combination of things both genetic and environment based. knowing what those combinations may be though is a project for people much smarter than myself.

Michael

McLoki

06-26-2007, 08:59 PM

F1nut

06-26-2007, 09:07 PM

opus

06-26-2007, 09:15 PM

Michael, I ask this as a bystander, although one with a sympathetic ear, Is there a chance that the huge increase in the number of cases is due to an increased awareness to the disease and/or a reclassification of other disorders/problems as autism?

This question is asked in good faith( I hope you know that)

hearingimpared

06-26-2007, 09:18 PM

Here are some autism facts for you:

Blame or ignore what you want - but the facts are the rate is increasing dramatically and there needs to be a clear understanding of why. As the parent of 2 autistic children, I am past the "I want someone to blame" and into the "what the hell do I do now" stage. The cost of caring for a child (through adulthood) with autsim is 2 - 2.5 million. (http://www.laleva.cc/choice/autism.html)

Obviously much of that cost has to be picked up by the government. The strain this will end up causing on society and government is not only emotional but financial as well. The costs of therapy is staggering. (and try to find a daycare that is willing to deal with it) - I dare say it is definately more than most families can afford on their own.

This is not a problem that you can ignore and make go away. No one knows what causes Autism and anyone who says they do is lying (at least for now). I do fully understand parents at their wits end looking for something that will help get them through the day. For some it is looking for someone to blame, for others it is grasping at straws looking for anything that has the possilbity of making it easier to care for their children and making their childs struggle to understand the world less of a challenge.

As far as studies conducted by the immunization companies and councels. I let them hold as much weight with me as studies by the cigarette companies in the 1950's.

Personally I think it is a combination of things both genetic and environment based. knowing what those combinations may be though is a project for people much smarter than myself.

Michael

Michael I have one question for you. The numbers from 1954-1980 something, did they call something else, autism? Like did they think that some children had Down Syndrome or back then "mentally retarded," when in fact they had autism? This seems to be one of the conflicting problems. Back in 1954 through the 80s autistic children were misdiagnosed, that seems to be one of the reasons for the jump in autistic diagnosis.

Just to give you an example of how much better disorders are being diagnosed, a child with ADHD back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, & 80s were labeled either just bad kids or they had ants in their pants. Now with proper diagnosis, they are being diagnosed with ADHD so the incidents of ADHD has jumped by leaps and bounds.

I think the number children actually diagnosed with autism TODAY is probably not much more than the amount of children who had autism but it was called something else back when.

Is this actually possible?

McLoki

06-26-2007, 09:21 PM

They smoked/shot/inhaled dope & gave their kid autism!

Get a life!:rolleyes:

While many parents of kids with autism look for someone to blame - very few are willing to turn the critical eye on themselves. I would stop somewhat short though of blaming the parents (other than genetics) for causing the autism of their children.

I blame it on the Clinton's.
The Clinton connection, on the other hand, is something we should look closer at. (if it wasn't him directly, I am sure it was at least a few of his campaign contributers working together.)

Michael

Silverti

06-26-2007, 09:33 PM

If you guys want to see how bad the Medical industry is, look at all them commercials for "restless leg syndrome" which is pretty much a pure marketing scheme by drug companies to sell a certain medication that was designed for different things (was it Parkinson’s?) and they pretty much contrived a minor item into a whole marketing scheme to tell it for peoples who cant stop their legs form moving. All a sudden <gasp> millions of people had it.

Consider the fact that our medical systems are purely profit based and you know why diagnoses go up period.

Take profit out of health care.

And my wife is in that industry... good income.. legalized drug dealers if you ask me.

I wish we could get objective information as to why this stuff is happeneing. Clearly Autism is a situation being "diagnosed" more today. But is it being over diagnosed for profit?

opus

06-26-2007, 09:38 PM

.......................Take profit out of health care.....................

sigh:confused:

McLoki

06-26-2007, 09:45 PM

I am sure at least some of the cases now (probably a large percentage) are due to both an increased awareness of the disease and the fact that they now consider much milder forms of autism (such as aspergers) as autistic where they used to consider only severe cases (called classic autism - like rain man) years ago.

I am not sure when they started the more general classification of it, but it does show at least one thing. (at least to me) where before there were multiple problems that seemed on the surface to be unrelated and therefore much harder to discover a cause or treatment for (due to the diffusion of time and money in trying to study multiple diseases or issues) - now that it is under the same umbrella of autism, may be easier focus on something that can help to prevent or treat this in the future.

1 in 150 is epidemic propotions for a childhood disease. Whether that disease is new or not should not really be the focus of the debate - finding a prevention or treatment should be. The growth rate is currently being highlighted as the reason to spend money on research. Personally I would have thought that the 1 in 150 would have been reason enough.

Michael

McLoki

06-26-2007, 10:00 PM

Take profit out of health care.

While on the surface this makes sense - in reality I would consider it a horrid idea. Many of the greatest discoveries of the 20th century have been made in the spirit of making a profit.

To stand a chance of curing a disease - someone has to be able to make a profit at it. Why do you think so many companies are spending millions of their own profits trying to cure cancer? Because whoever comes up with the cure will be holding the patent worth millions of dollars. (if they come up with a preventative - it could be worth billions)

To quote Gordon Gekko (rent the movie wallstreet) "greed is good." What do I care if someone makes a profit as long as the result of that profit helps me and my family? (I will put helping the rest of mankind as a perk at this point... :) )

Michael

McLoki

06-26-2007, 10:29 PM

One thing my wife just brought up - the increased diagnosis is not (we don't think) profit driven at all. Once your child is diagnosed - you enter into a black hole of help.

There is no drug you can give or single treatment that you can follow to help. All you have is the support of other parents and what they have tried or experienced to help. I assume it is due to the fact that there is no money in autism unless you are a therapist. This is probably a big contributor to the reason that research has been so slow with Autism.

Parents follow other parents advice because that is all we have. The doctors and researchers just say - we don't know yet - wait a few years and maybe we will have something. Our children are here now and help (at least for my child) is not going to wait for someone to say "ok, now we know what to do."

As with every other parenting decision - we will run in the direction we think is best and makes the most sense, all the while hoping that the direction we chose is a good one.

Michael

opus

06-26-2007, 10:52 PM

Good luck and God Bless

McLoki

06-26-2007, 11:00 PM

We all have our crosses to bear. In the grand scheme of things - it could have been so much worse. We truely have been / are blessed.

(but thank you for the well wishes... :) )

Michael.

Silverti

06-26-2007, 11:03 PM

I haven’t seen that new Michael Moore movie on health care but I understand the fundamentals behind it and from the clips I seen, its gonna wake some people up (hell wasn’t he even on Oprah with it?). Specifically the millions of people who actually *think* they have health coverage... until you really need to use it. Aka, you learn quickly what health insurance is about when you face an expensive procedure. Scary ****, I hope I don’t get cancer.

McLoki

06-26-2007, 11:14 PM

Nisqually Dave

06-26-2007, 11:21 PM

Did someone actually Quote Micheal Moore? Talk about twisting the facts to sensationalize them.

As my old Professor of statistics told us on our first day of class, you can make statistics prove or disprove any fact with statistics. talk about voodoo math/science. Most crackpots who want to fleece you pocketbook use statistics to do it.

hearingimpared

06-26-2007, 11:23 PM

The fact that you are willing to sit through a Michael Moore movie shows how far apart our views are. Oh well - you like Polk so we can agree you have taste in something. (apparently it is just narrowly focused.)..... :D :) :D

Michael

You beat me to that punch!!!

Seriously though, I've a long prayer list each day and it just got longer. God Bless you and your family, my wife and I have first hand experience with mental health issues. I love your attitude in that we have the same, we are blessed!:)

ben62670

06-26-2007, 11:35 PM

Ben62670 - Unfortunately, it looks like we are getting close to being able to start an autism support group on the forum....

PM me if you ever want another opinion on anything or need anyone to talk to.

Michael

I might do that. I actually skipped to page two, and found I missed a couple of post. I was thinking of sending you a PM. It is tough having a kid with autism. The hard thing is that it is going to be tough for her. Thats the heart braking part of this disease. I personally don't blame anything, or anyone for this condition. I wish they would do more research. What needs to be done is interview the parents of autistic children, and find out what if any the common denominator is.

Ben

Shizelbs

06-27-2007, 12:06 AM

If you guys want to see how bad the Medical industry is, look at all them commercials for "restless leg syndrome" which is pretty much a pure marketing scheme by drug companies to sell a certain medication that was designed for different things (was it Parkinson’s?) and they pretty much contrived a minor item into a whole marketing scheme to tell it for peoples who cant stop their legs form moving. All a sudden <gasp> millions of people had it.

Restless Leg Syndrome is a genuine medical condition. It is a movement disorder with some similarities to Parkinson's disease. Physicians and other practioners were prescribing those drugs for Restless Leg patients well before the ads appeared on TV.

The drug company of that drug(s) spend millions and millions of dollars to prove that their drug was effective for the genuine condition that is RLS. Only once they spent that money could they then advertise and promote awareness for people that may not know that what they have is RLS and that there exists a treatment.

Shizelbs

06-27-2007, 12:08 AM

Clearly Autism is a situation being "diagnosed" more today. But is it being over diagnosed for profit?

No, it absolutely is not.

ben62670

06-27-2007, 12:21 AM

No, it absolutely is not.

I totally agree. If you know early enough you can try to teach the child ASAP as much as you can. Its amazing how quickly kids pick things up when they are young. I do think a lot of stuff is miss labeled when it comes to behavioral problems. I don't think that medication is the answer for a lot of these types of problems. While some problems can be helped I think a lot of hard work by the parents needs to be done. My kid is going to basically a speech therapy. I think that more of that is for the parents to teach them how to teach their children than anything else.

Ben

schwarcw

06-27-2007, 12:28 AM

The Treffert study (1970) concluded that for people born between 1954-1964 the rate of autism was 3.1 per 10,000

The Burd study (1987) concluded that for people born between 1967-1983 the rate of autism was 3.26 per 10,000

The Ritivo study (1989) concluded that for people born between 1960-1984 the rate of autism was 2.47 per 10,000

The current rate (as determined by a February 2007 multi-state study by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention) is now 67 per 10,000. (1 in every 150 kids born today)

This is the real point!!! Autism is a worldwide epidemic of staggering proportions, environmental factors are the most likely the cause. The point is, we need to find out what is doing it and how, FAST!!! Children are being irreparably harmed.

And yes Cathy, someone is going to pay (insurance companies - Sorry!). This is going to be a bonanza for the lawyers. Ever read Erin Brockovich? Early on during the discovery, most people had the same consensus about hexavalent chromium. "No way is this causing all these problems"

cfrizz

06-27-2007, 01:25 PM

Michael, I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. You are in my thoughts.

Cathy

zombie boy 2000

06-27-2007, 01:37 PM

Damn those flouride barons and their damn lobbiests!

WAAAAAA!!!! I usually stay out of these threads, but this is one of the funniest quotes I have ever heard on this forum:D

Jstas

06-27-2007, 04:25 PM

Autism Reversed in Mice At MIT lab:

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/27/1749233

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6245742.stm

McLoki

06-27-2007, 05:48 PM

For those curious about the show last night. (the point of the thread, remember?) I watched it and it made me feel wholly uncomfortable. The fact that one woman (the mother) would be so willing to potentially sacrafice her child to the beliefs of one person that every other scientist he has met considers a crackpot, is just scary.

The scientist I just didn't believe in (especially considering how strongly he has been vilified by his peers) and the mother just had the look and actions of someone who has gone off the deep end. Of course I felt sorry for the child and his situation, but there has to be a point where experimenting with drugs on your child in hopes of fundamentally changing him has be considered child endagerment.

It would be different if it was part of a controlled study that had shown benefits in other animals and they are ready to move testing to the next step. But to just say "here - try this and see what happens" as drug cocktails that were put together and tested in a basement - are injected into your child, is just wrong.

I hope, for her sons sake, that what she is allowing to be done to her child does not cause further harm and heartache down the road.

You have to reach a point where your friends and family are willing to step in and say "what the hell are you thinking? I know things are bad but this is your child, not a lab rat - stop treating him like one."

Personally, I found the entire show really disturbing.

Michael

Silverti

06-28-2007, 12:39 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19361022/site/newsweek/?GT1=10056

candyliquor35m

06-28-2007, 12:52 AM

Here's one clinical trial going on for dmsa. It appears their goal is to prove that it doesn't work.

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/gui/show/NCT00376194?order=1

hearingimpared

06-28-2007, 10:16 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19361022/site/newsweek/?GT1=10056

He's the epitomed picture of health!

Silverti

06-28-2007, 11:19 AM

He's the epitomed picture of health!

Isn’t that like shooting the messenger?

Couple of you guys are interesting. Pull the blinders off man. I’m not really a Moore fan (I’ve only watched one of his movies) but at least I'll full the blinders off and objectively watch something like that. I’m secure enough in my mental ability and education to be able to take the info he presents (in his case, not charts and data, but actually peoples stories) and critical think it from all sides and make my own judgment. At least in the end, If I think he’s a quack and his arguments are invalid, I can come here and actually post an objective retort on it instead of just trashing it because I can trash it... right? But this is the internets and that’s what people do and trying to reason to people with blinders on don’t work any ways but it’s always fun.

In any case, it might actually get you to realize that this is all extremely complicated being worked on by millions of variables… just maybe your simple idea of it working isn’t true!

jdhdiggs

06-28-2007, 02:14 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19361022/site/newsweek/?GT1=10056

For just a "little" balance: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010266

PhantomOG

06-28-2007, 02:43 PM

Isn’t that like shooting the messenger?

Calling Mikey Moore a messenger?? Now that's funny.

hearingimpared

06-28-2007, 06:28 PM

Isn’t that like shooting the messenger?

Couple of you guys are interesting. Pull the blinders off man. I’m not really a Moore fan (I’ve only watched one of his movies) but at least I'll full the blinders off and objectively watch something like that. I’m secure enough in my mental ability and education to be able to take the info he presents (in his case, not charts and data, but actually peoples stories) and critical think it from all sides and make my own judgment. At least in the end, If I think he’s a quack and his arguments are invalid, I can come here and actually post an objective retort on it instead of just trashing it because I can trash it... right? But this is the internets and that’s what people do and trying to reason to people with blinders on don’t work any ways but it’s always fun.

In any case, it might actually get you to realize that this is all extremely complicated being worked on by millions of variables… just maybe your simple idea of it working isn’t true!

I've seen everything Moore has done and contrary to your incredible insight, I find him a fat buffoon!!! Period, no blinders, no trashing, I find him to be nothing but a buffoon! A hateful buffoon at that! That is my retort.