What type/ AWG size do u use on your RT600i's???

[ralph76]

Im looking to upgrade my old Monster HP NW wire to AudioQuest Type 2+. Has anyone in here used the type 2 yet? any difference? I ask this because i know the AWG in type 2 equals 17guage. I know this is quite thin I dont want to lose out on the sound. Should i go with the Type 4+ instead? I plan on getting 10ft pair for the fronts and possibly center. thanks

any comments would help.

PS what is the recommended guage range to be used on these speakers anyway???

[mantis]

Thickness always seems to make a difference.I would suggest you try the wire at your home.Or bring your speakers into the store and try out different levels of Audioquest.Id also suggest you try other brands and see what works best with your speakers.

As I have limited experience with Audioquest(I'd like to have more).form what I understand they make real nice wires.The salesman should beable to guide you into the correct wire for your speakers.Then again.........

well I wouldn't spend more then 200.00 bucks on wire for them.Maybe 250.00 tops.You really need to hear it to see if it's worth the extra cash.I feel good wire is just as Important as the speakers/source and amp in the system.........kinda the weakest link theory.

[TroyD]

Dan,

If the RT series doesn't merit the use of separates, how can you justify spending that kind of coinage on wire for them?

In response to Ralph, I would going with a thicker guage if you can swing it just on principle. However, on a 10' run, I think the 17awg would be just fine.

BDT

BDT

[mantis]

subjective isn't it.............

seperates / good wire / etc.......take a look at your own system.You don't use really good wire yeat you have seperates and speakers in your opnion are one of the best of all time.

Still need good wire to connect the seperates together.In a home theater system, seperates can get pricey, as would all the extra interconnects you would need......off topic it is.

Wire for the rt600's is also subjective to the point of where should you stop.If the better wires makes them sound better, who are we to tell him not to go with it?

In my opnion I wouldn't spend that much for wire with a speaker at that level.Try this..............take about 10 to 20% for the system's total cost without wire and thats about how much you should spend on wire.It's a theory I learned from Transparent.....It seems to work out and put your system in a level of mating..........try it and see for yourself.
Ralph.....get the wire you feel sounds the best .

[TroyD]

What I'm saying is Dan, is that according to you, the RT series isn't of sufficient quality to merit the use of separates. Which I take to mean that they don't warrant the use of 'higher-end' gear. If that's your contention, fine but in keeping with that, a pair of 250 dollar speaker cables (which I would consider pricey) would be unwarranted if one follows your logic. At 10%, that would equate to about a 2500 dollar rig (2ch).

As far as my own rig goes, I admit that I'm very skeptical about wire. I believe that wire is probably the most over-hyped area in all of audio. That, however, is my opinion and I don't offer it as fact. For my DQ's, I use 2 6ft runs of 14awg wire and am amply satisfied.

BDT

[ralph76]

Originally posted by mantis
Thickness always seems to make a difference.I would suggest you try the wire at your home.Or bring your speakers into the store and try out different levels of Audioquest.Id also suggest you try other brands and see what works best with your speakers.

As I have limited experience with Audioquest(I'd like to have more).form what I understand they make real nice wires.The salesman should beable to guide you into the correct wire for your speakers.Then again.........

well I wouldn't spend more then 200.00 bucks on wire for them.Maybe 250.00 tops.You really need to hear it to see if it's worth the extra cash.I feel good wire is just as Important as the speakers/source and amp in the system.........kinda the weakest link theory.

Unfortunatly, I cant test them instore. Im ordering them form a company in Ottwa, CA. But 200 on wire.. thats way out my price range. I just want to make sure on not going with a thin wire at 17gauges.....

[ralph76]

Originally posted by TroyD
Dan,

If the RT series doesn't merit the use of separates, how can you justify spending that kind of coinage on wire for them?

In response to Ralph, I would going with a thicker guage if you can swing it just on principle. However, on a 10' run, I think the 17awg would be just fine.

BDT

BDT

I agree with you. I may just go with a thicker guage. I'll let you guys know how i make out. Thanks for the input..

[TroyD]

Ralph,

On such a short run, IMO, you probably would never tell the difference between 14awg and 24awg. I wouldn't get all wrapped around the axle over it, know what I mean?

BDT

[mantis]

I'm gonna leave it alone........

[TroyD]

Why is that Dan? Because you think that in a short run with the same type of wire you can tell the difference in guage? IMO, if the difference is between 14 and 16, you probably can't. IMO, most people can't and I think that peoples efforts are better spent worrying about other.

I am an admitted skeptic about a lot of the voo-doo with wire. If you don't agree that's fine. That's MY opinion which holds just as much water as anyone else's

BDT

[gidrah]

Ralph - I'd think 17awg would be fine. I wouldn't go much smaller though. Whatever you get make sure to use the same for your center.

I'd check out the business/industrial section of E-bay. You can get some real nice wire/cable for much less than you could from a speaker wire manufacturer.

take about 10 to 20% for the system's total cost without wire and
thats about how much you should spend on wire.It's a theory I learned from
Transparent.....

Sounds like a sales pitch.

[HBombToo]

I agree. The fattest cheapest cable is the waytago.

What about interconnects?

Buy at Home Depot then what is the Bannana Plug available?


Last Post and Out for the day..........

[gidrah]

I'm a big fan of bare wire connections. One less connection. If possible fan the wire out as much as possible to get more surface area at your connection.

Interconnects. I've been investigating the merits of solid silver ICs. Shielded and teflon insulated are major considerations.

[TroyD]

In theory, I prefer the bare wire as well, the less jumps the signal has to make the better, IMO. For convenience sake, though, I like banannas.

BDT

[HBombToo]

I have equations in the uWave band that I would not dare share here. We have increeased efficiency by more that 30%... Fat cable and a good compression fit is all required IMO and experience.

OH BOY!

I'll take it.

[ralph76]

Originally posted by TroyD
In theory, I prefer the bare wire as well, the less jumps the signal has to make the better, IMO. For convenience sake, though, I like banannas.

BDT

Personally, I think bannans make the best connection compared to spades.

[TroyD]

Well, my thing is that I swap out speakers in the mancave pretty often to banannas make it relatively painless.

BDT

[mantis]

WOW,
so what am I suppost to add to all that........it sounds like you guys have no time for wire.Just hook it up with whatever and let it rip.

In all my insane tests/trails errors/and such,I can hear a big difference from wire to wire.

speaker wire makes a big impact on the way your system sounds.There's no voodoo about it.If you take the time to listen instead of talking........maybe just maybe you'll hear sometime new.

I enjoy a good wire,I like the difference it make's when changing out from one wire to the next.

I say this...........if you really care about how your system sounds, dig into wire, it does make a difference......at least get some good shielded wire to keep out RF and EMI.Thats the biggest reason one cable sounds different from the next.There are millions and millions of other reasons like winding/networks/thickness/length and such.

For you guys who look over wire, I believe your system can be improved with just wire upgrades.

[gidrah]

I agree with much of what you just said. Sshhhhh!

[TroyD]

Ok, Dan, we get it. You dig wire.

Certainly your opinions are welcome and valid but is it OK, if I have my own opinion and express it? I'm not trying to discredit your opinon or change it. Having said that my opinon is that at the place that most of us are at, most of us don't need to spend 250 + on a set of wires. We can spend less than 50 on a pair of 5' cables and press on for the time being. Also note that I'm not saying that there is not an audible difference in wire. What I am saying is that it's highly subjective and that a person isn't neccessarily handicapping his system with inexpensive wire.

As far as the listening vs. talking comment, I am sufficiently convinced that I've done enough listening to form a reasonably informe opinion and that's all I have to say about that. I don't challenge your credibility, don't do it to me or anyone else here.



BDT

[gidrah]

I agree with much of what you just said. Sshhhhh!

[RuSsMaN]

Troy, when will you learn. Danny boy has opened many boxes, and setup a multitude of rigs we can only dream about.

He's spent countless minutes (at least 45 I would guess) with these rigs, and his opinion counts, so very much more than yours. He does this **** for a living, with top of the line Pioneer receivers (bench-press tested) and high-tone gear like Rel (all day/all about). How can us common men keep up? ;)

Cheers,
Rooster

PS: 'Yeah, but you won't listen' - Mark

[RuSsMaN]

Click, click, click, slam, click, click-click etc etc etc, to infinity and beyond..... (see below)

[mantis]

Russ,
I said it before and I will say it again....your a flat out *******!!!!
I never said yours/Troy's or anyones elses opnions don't matter.

I never said I was the be all end all!!

I am an Installer.......you keep bringing that up.The box cutter thing??????Eff you dude.You have no Idea man........NONE!!!

So lets start out with Proceed and Martin Logan.......is it a good match?Does the Proceed Amp 2 showoff what the Logan Prodigy's can do?Or would you go with Audio Research.....maybe Krell......ever hooked up any of the following?Wison Audio?ever sat for a day setting up a pair of Watt/Puppies?So 45 minutes you guess.........your a joke dude.Maybe that how much time you put into your system but I don't for my customers.Then and Now.At Soundex we spend alot of time with systems.....when you drop 100k+ on a system.........45 minutes to set it up just don't cut it simple minded.Again......you have no idea.
I spend 10 to 12 hours a day,5 to 6 days a week with audio/video/Phone systems/Programing/Networking/Automation/Lighting control with Lutron.........Can you set all that up???Can you calibrate a front projector and hang a screen...fixed or motorized???Do you have any Idea how to calculate for throw distance???

Hows this Room acoustic boy........whats a first reflection point and how do you fix it?Where do you want the room to be alive and where do you want it 2 be dead?

And this.........what's the min distance for seating for a 100 inch screen.How far should the left and right speakers be apart for the correct seating and screen size?

What about cabnet depth........how many inches do you need to be able to upgrade to just about any peice of gear?????How long of a run of 16-4 should you run before you should upgrade to 14 guage?What amp will drive the given speakers safely to reference levels without distortion????Need I go on I fot millions of questions I could ask you know it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude when your paycheck can Match or exceed what I make then you can call me anything you feel like.Remember you bring up the work thing all the time....ass!

All I really would like to say to you is Eff you.

[RuSsMaN]

Yeah yeah yeah, same ****, different day, thanks for playing...

Proceed and Martin Logan? I dunno, what wires are they using....

Watt Puppies? Not personally, but I have spent countless hours with Focal drivers....

I'm a joke? Take a poll....

Audio, video, phone, yadda, yadda. Sure, I can read a manual, I've worked with large PBX/Digital phone systems, have you? Do you know?

Programming? Networking? Are we talking wireless remotes, or C++? Are we talking WAN/LAN, Novell, Win2k.....what? I'm MCSE certified, and know my way around networks fairly well....

Front Projector, well, ya got me there cocheese. Got a manual I can brush up with?

Cab(i)net depth? What cabs? Speaker cabs? Kitchen Cabs? Entertainment center cabs? I have a couple tape measures in the garage if that would help.

16 guage to 14? I would typically say any run under 50 ft will be fine for most at 16, but by your theory, I guess it would depend if it cost 20% of their other gear or not. And God forbid someone use lamp cord......

Paycheck? You tryin' to floss on the forum? What the eff does that have to do with anything? Like I would share my portfolio with YOU......

Eff you? Get your own word man, that one doesn't belong to you....

Boy you get riled up easy, you should see the doc about hypertension/high blood pressure, I don't want you kicking the dog because of little ole' me....

Cheers,
Rooster

[gidrah]

I'm going to be building some DIY cables and ICs. I understand you have experience in these areas. Could you give me some info into the make-up of some of your favorites and why? Were they copper, silver-coated copper, pure silver. In multi strand cables, was each strand insulated or where they all just wound together into a cable. What dielectric do you prefer? Teflon, air, etc.

I'm currently in search of 32awg silver wire. Any leads on a bulk distributor.

[gidrah]

I'm thinking about doing a 54 strand, 24awg(per strand) solid strand w/teflon wrap braided set (27 conductors +/-). If I were to shield this with copper foil, is there a certain length of shielding that is mor susctible to RF? I've heard /read that shielding on a speaker cable can act like an antenna.

F1 - "You play a good game boy, but now the game is over. Now you must die." The Tall Man

[TroyD]

Dan,

So much for respecting others opinions, eh?

Your whole diatribe about Proceed/ML or whatever else only serves to illustrate my point. While that may or may not sound good to you, how it sounds to someone else is a different story, especially to the guy purchasing the gear. The rest of it is pure term tossing and completely irrelevant to the discussion of wire. If such posts actually existed, I'd probably abstain as I (A) don't know and (B) could, frankly, give a damn.

If you wonder why you catch flack from others here it's because you maintain this attitude that your opinion is more valid than any one else's and that somehow our opinion is less valid.

Let me use a non-audio reference. I know one guy who is an auto mechanic at a local dealership. He has all the certificates and training, etc. He is 26 and has been doing that for about 5 years. I have another friend (actually, his dad) who has been working on cars as a hobby for over 50 years. His latest project was a custom designed and hand built and machined intake assembly for a Toyota MR2. While dude #2 is not a professional, his opinions on cars certainly holds as much weight as dude #1.

Anyway, you want respect, you got to show it.

BDT

[mantis]

So,
now I don't value anyones opnion.......funny I never said any of the above.As far as your opnions TroyD....you can have them and have the right like anyone else.You have doughts in wire......your right.......I love wire.......my right.It's all good from where I'm sitting.But,

When people gotta keep thowing up what I do for a living and try to discredit me in anyway......I don't respect that at all.

Troy I never said anything about your opnions.I have a different opnion and I think thats what makes this forum work...but everytime a good debate starts.....asses gotta hang out and everything else.

My comments on listening instead of talking isn't directed just at you.....it's a general comment.I just would like to read about wire A vs wire B vs Wire C and say I heard this and not that and I feel this way about this and so on.Most comments I read seem like nobody wants to take anytime to hear or not hear it for themselves.

If that offends anyone well then you need not to comment on my posts.

Your whole point about the hobbiest and the Professional???I Don't know exactly how to take that,But here's what I got out of it.It's like your trying to tell me that you don't need to be a Professional to know something about the topic.This is true.The person you mentioned in your story was 50 years experienced in what he was doing.I respect that alot.So as the Professional....5 years in the field you can learn alot due to the fact of at least 8 hours a day and 5 days aweek.....40+hours doing anything and your bound to get an Idea....not to mention factory trained.

But thats all fine and dandy...I don't bring up my job like another loves to do............whatever there.

This is pointless to keep talking like this to one another.......You guys feel your way and I will feel mine....if we agree sometimes.....real cool.....if not ......owell.

My last point on this wire thing is simply this............If you have listened for yourself and heard a difference or not.......I can respect that.It's the experience thing that I respect.......talk is talk........I can do it all night long....spec's..reasons.....whatever.......I personally like to experience the topic then just talk about it.....thats just me man.

As far as that post about the ML's Proceed and all that other bull wasn't directed at anyone else but Russ.You and I seem to be somewaht cool with each other.....Call me a box cutter and it's on.

[TroyD]

..boxcutter!


BDT

[RuSsMaN]

*Wheels-are-off*

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Scorched earth baby, scorched earth...

Cheers,
Rooster

[mantis]

Just a couple of clowns.....with nothing better to do.

[RuSsMaN]

C'mon man, no meltdown like last night?

PS: 'Yeah, but you won't listen'

Cheers,
Rooster

[gidrah]

I'm still going to do DIY cables but in my drunken state last night I bid on and won some nice looking 13awg silver coated jobbies. I was going to build some speaker cables, then interconnects. I guess I'll do the interconnects first.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1383499056&rd=1

I've got my eyes on 16lbs of 20awg pure silver wire.

[TroyD]

I'm going to be building some DIY cables and ICs. I understand you have experience in these areas. Could you give me some info into the make-up of some of your favorites and why? Were they copper, silver-coated copper, pure silver. In multi strand cables, was each strand insulated or where they all just wound together into a cable. What dielectric do you prefer? Teflon, air, etc.

What's your take Dan?

What are the differences between the high end wires? What makes Transparent better than any other wire? Another question that I have, given that thicker is better, what is the optimum length for each guage? At what point (or length) is there a noticeable difference in guage?

BDT

[ralph76]

Originally posted by TroyD


What's your take Dan?

What are the differences between the high end wires? What makes Transparent better than any other wire? Another question that I have, given that thicker is better, what is the optimum length for each guage? At what point (or length) is there a noticeable difference in guage?

BDT

Troy, U must have been reading my mind. I had the same exact questions in mind.....:lol:

[TroyD]

See Ralph, I'm looking out for ya.....

In all honesty, I'm not trying to put Dan on the spot but I think they are valid questions. The 'well, it just sounds better' argument only goes so far. At least with speakers and amps and so forth you can usually say that because of _______ it affects the sound in such and such a fashion. With wire it's not so clear cut, IMO. Look, take a piece of 16 (or whatever) awg from Home Depot, Monster, AR, Rat Shack, RCA yada yada....other than the label they all look pretty darn similar. Heck, even my Straight Wire biwire cable looks pretty similar if you get right down to it.

BDT

[mantis]

OK,
If you really want ot know I can get into theory and debate about what makes one wire different from the next and so on and so forth.

Wire length varies from company to company.
If your concerned about the length of wire your using,check with the given manufacturer.

The longer the length the thicker you would want to wire to be.This is speaker wire I'm referring to.

Coax would need to be amped after a given length....Analog or digital runs vary.Coax Digital for sat works well up to 100 feet,after that you need to think about powered multiswitch to keep signal integrity.

Cat 5 can run 500 feet due to the twisted pair technology.

The questions asked that you would like me to address is about speaker wire correct???Ok,
I will start out general then if there is more you need I will do my best to answer your questions.

16 guage generally can run about 50 feet with good shielding.Loss of signal integrity.Some claim 25 feet and some 100 feet.It depends on the cable company.I'd call customer service to get exact lengths wire there cable.

14 guage can go alot further.100+feet usually is fine.After longer runs you want to consider 12 guage.

These wire lengths are generally for non full range speakers like Inwalls, rears , and bookshelf.

Full range speakers in My opnion should use a bit heavier guage.
14 instead of 16 and so on.

But thats not exactly what your after in this are you????your looking for why does wire sound better then others.

Well thats a really good question to ask before you lay down serious cash for better wire.I have used Monstercable and Straight wires for a long time.Monstercable was the main focus.I grew up with there products in my family and I felt they made nice cables at a good price.

Transparent came into my life When I started at Soundex.Everybody who worked there insisted I tried there wires and compare them to the best of what I owned.So I took the challenge and brought all kinds of wire home to see if I could hear a difference from my high end Monster that I felt was good quality.Transparent opened up sounds that I simply couldn't hear using the Monstercables.Now I own M950i's and M1.4s Biwres which are almost top of the line.And the difference was large.

Detail is what I believe the easyest thing to hear.Just play a somg you know well,change out to another cable and see if it sounds exaclty the same or different.Better or worse.

Now the Question was what makes Transparent better then other cables.They have alot of reasons.There network bricks is what they talk about the most.Keeping out Emi and RF is what makes for a good cable to start.They way the wire is twisted inside and the kind of dielectic is another thing they feel makes an audio difference.

So noise is what makes a cable sound better or worse.Keeping it out,sending the signal unchanged is what your looking for.Some cables can act as a good antenna......this is very bad.Noise can destroy all the detail, nuances of texture, tone,color, body,demension, and even contrst that are encoded in your music.If you are critical about your rig......these things should concern you.They do me.I want to hear it.I paid all this money for my rig and on and on and I want it to sound really good.

Well Transparents networks are a passive electrical networks that reject out noise.There custom build for each and every wire length and size.

There is such a world of understanding of why what wire does in your system........I think you need to hear the difference to believe anything these companies talk about.As far as they are concerned there products are the best on the market.Ask Monster, Straight,Tributaries,Cardost,Kimber,Transparent,Mi t,Nortist,they wil all tell you that they do it better then the next guy,and even why.
I had a lengthy discusion with one of the reps from Tributaries about S Video wire.He told me there S video couldn't be beat my anyones cable.And he took one apart and showed me the 7 layers of maddness they use to keep noise out and siganl integerity in.These guys go out of there way to create what they feel the ultimite conductor.

Solid, stranded, copper, silver,Teflon, are some of the materials used in todays wires.Most of them use the same stuff inside but lay it out in a different fashion.Monster uses a bass flux tube inside of there wires and counterclockwise twist there conductors.Does that work????I don't know, but I know they believe it does.They also use a type of network winding in there wires.So I will give you some things they have showed me.
The speaker wires use all kinds of technology.If you ever take apart a Monstercable speaker wire you will find some things not in other wires.They use multitwist ultra tight windings of conductors resulting in enhanced sonic performance and noise rejection.They go on and on about there own network windings and such.It's all inthere as I have cut open alot of Monstercables myself to see.

A compent was made about opening up 16 guage wire from whoever you wanted....they are all different.Monster has a plastic tube down the center ....for a reason and different size conductore wrapped around counter clockwise.Radio shack and Home depot don't put all that inside there wire.

The real question is what why is it better.........that comes after you hear it to be better.I feel if it sounds better, then investagate why......Like transparent...I felt Monstercable was the **** untill I heard Transparent make them sound awefull.But Monstercable puts all that time and research into there cables,as most do, and transparent just flat out sounded better all the way around.Smooth bass and a list of things I could talk about.

I know this post is long..There is so much to talk about.

I feel ...well you all know how I feel about wire.I still respect all your opnions.....this means you 2 Troy.....if you can't hear a difference then how can you justify spending the money???If I didn't hear a difference from my M950i's at 130.00 a meter to Transparent 200.00 a meter,I wouldn't have dropped the cash.Yeah they look real cool with the bricks inline but so what , you can't see them,there behind the rack.

Well feedback is needed to continue....my fingers are going to start hurting....:)

[TroyD]

Sure, I'd honestly like to hear your theories.......

BDT

[mantis]

read above I edited that post

[mantis]

ask some questions so I can cut to the chase and not babble so much

[HBombToo]

Has any1 heard of Maxwell? and not Smart if thats what your thinking.

My thought in line with Mantis on the whole matter may be the following, and go easy on me cause I've taken Russmans advice and drank a few cold 1's in memory of our friend.

Maxwell wrote that if theres a change in current a B field will be the result. Our Speaker cable IMO is nothing more than a resistor and an Inductor in series with very small capacitance. Inductors hate changing currents irregardless of the potential applied. This may be what Mantis has been trying to describe the whole time. Different class lines have differing inductive reactances which impacts the upper end of the audio band. Perhaps a line with less inductive reactance sounds more,"Open or Airy", not my term but I'm only trying to explain that more power is delivered to the mid and tweet sections of the speaker due to less reactance.

Just a shot in the dark but the question remains for me is how much could we possibly lose? TUFF Question i think iMHO.

HBomb

[goingganzo]

i went 12 guage all the way around and i got a good 12 guage around 90cents a foot it has a dubble insolator and i put it in my walls too i must have 200+ feet of wire i setup for bi amp/wire my front 3 and 1 run to all my 4 suround

[HBombToo]

ganzo, you and I are at the same paypoint on footage and I'm also pleased. Just trying to play the devils advocate.

HBomb

[gidrah]

Mantis - I behind you all the way (way behind) on cables/wires. Some people can hear the difference and some cannot. I'm trying to find out whether or not I can. Few people can audition cables/wires in their home. Basically if it's packaged or even expensive, to take it home, you've gotta buy it. I don't have the resources you do and therefore must look past brands/models and get down to the root of theory.
You've dealt with Cat5. I'm thinking about doing a braided cat5 speaker wire. It has many of the things I'm looking for (separate conductors w/teflon). My question would be Cat5e. I know this is better cable for networking, but why? Would I get a sonic improvement using this over the standard Cat5. I know that you've demo'd some pre-made stuff, but if you can't help me or don't know their basis and fundamentals, that's fine.

HBombToo - You've used some terms that I would like to know more about. I guess you're "the cable guy". How did you measure? E-mail me if need be.

[mantis]

I'm no way the expert on cable theory or why they use the materials they do.I'd like to continue my quest for better understanding about wire and why it sounds better then the next or at least different.

I've read alot of articles about how wire is wire.If you got good copper and a jacket of a certain guage,your in good shape.But,I have listened to so many different brands and I can hear some differences from wire to wire.You can simply increase your bass responce in your subwoofer by using a Monster THX subcable.Then with the same length,same setup swap it out for a Transparent sub cable and your bass smooths out,seems more in control and more musical.Why is that if wire is wire????
I listen to all the reps talk about there companies wire and why it's better then the next guy.They all make some type of sence in there own right.Monster is the king of technology in wire yeat there wire isn't the best on the market as far as I'm concerned.
I did so many side by side comparasions from Monster to Transparent and everytime I allways picked the Transparent as the better sounding cable.

Liv4fam and I have both done blind demo's with wire,remember were not rich,money is allways a factor when it comes to wire.It isn't easy to drop thousands of dollars to wire your system if you can buy other brands for hundreds less,**** I would love to go to Home Depot and wire my entire new theater,It would save me thousands of dollars.Inwall Transparent I'm gonna use for my rears cost 8 bucks a foot+you got to buy the network brick to finish it off and they cost 200 bucks for one.....Damn thats alot of money when your going to use 4 rears.**** people if I didn't hear a difference from Transparent to Monstercable,Hell I would wire it all with monster at 1.00 a foot and no network, but I can't.
The cat 5 idea I actually tried and found for whatever the reason the highs where mushy, bass was sloppy and mids where all muddied up.Bad sounding cable for speaker wire.You can also use it for interconnects for long runs...again not verygood sounding.I also tried coax for interconnects.....horrible sounding.

Good questions If anyone else has more to add please jump in here and help out.

[HBombToo]

gidrah, I'm far from an expert on any topic ever discussed on this Forum but I do have some Opinions. But Thanks anyway.

My discussion was just an attemp to bring in some actual theory of why a cable may sound better. The theory is basic field theory that I learned as an undergrad EE which was a long time ago for my small brain. Besides when I wrote this I was half kicked in the Arss so please forgive the rant.

My problem with subjective evaluations are in regard to my lack of experience and my ear has never been trained; therefore, on my quest in pursuing this hobbie I tend to base judgement on numbers rather than subjectivity.

I have a hard time justifying expensive cable on subjectivity but I'm trying to understand this thing from both angles.

HBomb