Light At The End of the Tunnel HT Construction Thread...

[wingnut4772]

I am going to turn lemons into lemonade here and design a new HT on a budget.

Some of you know my old HT took a bad hit when I discovered the room was poo poo ca ca and needed to be rebuilt.

My Money Pit (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56197&highlight=money+pit)

So now I have a friend (Eric) who is willing to help me rebuild the room for the cost of the materials and my labor :eek: :) and I am looking for ideas from you guys to optimally lay out the room for a genuinely dedicated HT.


I am thinking of relocating it to the other end , removing the ductless AC (we dont use it as we put vents from the main in that room) and the single door. I want to install a projector and make an equipment closet in that doorway which leads to the garage. The room is very narrow so I want to free up the front stage and only have speakers and subs and screen for optimal sound. I also would close up that rinky dink 'window' to the kitchen as it is just plain silly.

I want to carpet it and do a nice ceiling as well. The whole 9 yards on a beer budget. This will take a few months so I have some time to save for the gear and plan. We may not even start 'till after hurricane season but I want to have a firm plan in mind.

After that, I would like to drywall it in and make it a true dedicated HT.

How would you guys suggest I do the windows/French doors so it does not look stupid from the outside? I would like to line up the main set of doors with the entrance to the whole room which would give me about another 3 feet or so for the dedicated room and make a prettier line of site for the pool from the inside of the house but I still need to have a balanced look outside...:confused:

I am so excited because I am actually going to learn how to do all this stuff. The construction part as my friend Eric will teach me as we go.:D

[appadv]

I want to install a projector and make an equipment closet in that doorway which leads to the garage.

Go with a CRT projector :)

[wingnut4772]

Go with a CRT projector :)

They are so huge and the ceiling is only 8 feet-ish but I would love to.

[engtaz]

LCD or DLP projectors do a fine job. LCD have more adjustments. DLP better blacks. I chose DLP.

[jdhdiggs]

I'm still interested in the labor your supplying in exchange!

Looks like a great project, great turn around from the "HOUSE OF MOLD AND STANK!!!"

[wingnut4772]

I'm still interested in the labor your supplying in exchange!

Looks like a great project, great turn around from the "HOUSE OF MOLD AND STANK!!!"

Yes. Hopefully it can be done super cheap. I am meeting some opposition about closing off the room from the other half though... I may have to leave it open and use lighting control on the windows. Maybe some sort of curtains or blinds.

[madmax]

Is that your system on the right hand side of the first pic? :D
madmax

[wingnut4772]

Is that your system on the right hand side of the first pic? :D
madmax

For now, yes!:D

[tonyb]

With all the room you have out by the pool,sounds like a good place for a winter polk fest.:p :)

[engtaz]

here here great idea.:D :D

[schwarcw]

Congrats Darla! I enjoy seeing your excitement again:D Good luck!

[reeltrouble1]

Darla,

For a true HT, well, windows have no real place. If you must have them then for HT they are going to need some type of covering to block out all the light. The gear and screen need to be arranged to minimize the compromises of the windows. The reflective surface of the window and air leaks are of course a problem. That said I did leave one window in my new HT room, my plan is to eventually install one of those windows that can go opaque at the flick of switch or some other best compromise as I want the one window in the room.

Enjoy putting in your new room.

RT1

[wingnut4772]

Darla,

For a true HT, well, windows have no real place. If you must have them then for HT they are going to need some type of covering to block out all the light. The gear and screen need to be arranged to minimize the compromises of the windows. The reflective surface of the window and air leaks are of course a problem. That said I did leave one window in my new HT room, my plan is to eventually install one of those windows that can go opaque at the flick of switch or some other best compromise as I want the one window in the room.

Enjoy putting in your new room.

RT1

Thanks. I just don't see how I can get around not putting windows there and having it look silly from the outside. At this point I am leaning toward leaving it open and having some kind of curtain system to block out the light. I am not sure if that will be enough for a projector, though? I have been researching automatic lighting solutions and I really am confused. I think that might get a bit pricey as well.

As far as sound control..eh. It's just really me and my roommate and she works mids so she is not around much when I am blasting it.

Oh..and she does not want me to close it off either...which I can kind of understand.

[wingnut4772]

OK. What about making the doorway into an equipment closet? Any ideas? Or examples?

[jdhdiggs]

Blackout shades should work. They aren't the prettiest but you can dress them up and it would get around the window issue.

As for equipment closet? Only do it if you can do it right! No half ass on it or it becomes a bigger pain than if you had all the stuff in the room with you.

[wingnut4772]

Blackout shades should work. They aren't the prettiest but you can dress them up and it would get around the window issue.

As for equipment closet? Only do it if you can do it right! No half ass on it or it becomes a bigger pain than if you had all the stuff in the room with you.

Thanks....how do I do it right, though?

[jdhdiggs]

Which part?

[Ricardo]

Glad to see you taking a positive turn here!!!!!

[Sherardp]

Being that youre on a budget, look into Carada screens(gorgeous screen, excellent customer service, and one heck of a good price)they are often compared to Stewart and in some cases they are along the same line of performance if not better, and as for your PJ, look into the Sony Pearl(the prices have come down tremendously, now in the less than 3k range and it throws a stunning picture), JVC DLA HD1(best PJ out with near CRT black level, I have this one myself, and it offers flexible mounting, the pq is second to none, now average about 4500-5k in price), Epson Home 1080(Grimster owns this one and can vouch for it, but its been getting great reviews, you can find theses around 2300 bucks, but the Sony is close in price so I would go Sony ). DLPs are nice and all but for the price of those mentioned you cant go wrong. Allot of CRTs owners are switching over to the JVC model I mention, its just that good. You can followup on the products I mentioned over at AVS. As for your screen regardless of what you do, go as large as you possibly can with your room. I cant wait to see how your room turns out, once my new home is finished my room will be 17x22, 126 inch diagonal Carada Screen paired with JVC DLA HD1+Vantage HD Scaler. Good luck.

[wingnut4772]

Which part?

um...all of it?:p

[jdhdiggs]

To me, an equipment cabinet "done right" invloves you never having to open the door to the room and only getting up to change the CD/DVD. To do this, you really need a good remote, light control system, and code repeater in addtion to amps that have 12V triggers and the like. For a stereo one, it's cool to see the rack/room, but for HT, I prefer complety hidden.

There are too many ways to succeed to tell you what to do.

For the black out curtains, you just install two sets of curtains. You install the blackouts as instructed and then mount the traditional/decorative curtains out from the window. Typically, your looking at a three curtain setup:

Window => blackout => filter curtain => decorative curtain

this would give you tons of light control and look nice. There are som "black out" Roman shades and the like as well.

[appadv]

Being that youre on a budget, look into Carada screens(gorgeous screen, excellent customer service, and one heck of a good price)they are often compared to Stewart and in some cases they are along the same line of performance if not better, and as for your PJ, look into the Sony Pearl(the prices have come down tremendously, now in the less than 3k range and it throws a stunning picture), JVC DLA HD1(best PJ out with near CRT black level, I have this one myself, and it offers flexible mounting, the pq is second to none, now average about 4500-5k in price), Epson Home 1080(Grimster owns this one and can vouch for it, but its been getting great reviews, you can find theses around 2300 bucks, but the Sony is close in price so I would go Sony ). DLPs are nice and all but for the price of those mentioned you cant go wrong. Allot of CRTs owners are switching over to the JVC model I mention, its just that good. You can followup on the products I mentioned over at AVS. As for your screen regardless of what you do, go as large as you possibly can with your room. I cant wait to see how your room turns out, once my new home is finished my room will be 17x22, 126 inch diagonal Carada Screen paired with JVC DLA HD1+Vantage HD Scaler. Good luck.

+1

Good advice. So the JVC DLA-HD1 has near CRT black level? Wow.

As for the equipment rack, products from Middle Atlantic and Raxxess can make the installation much easier. Although I haven't installed a rack yet, I think the hardest part is getting all the cables under the drywall and to one centralized location. I had to remove part of the ceiling and wall to run my cables.

[wingnut4772]

Thanks guys. I would like to put the equipment outside as well but the only adjacent space I have besides a kitchen is the garage. There is also a washer and a water heater right outside the door I will have to deal with and a gas line that I see is running under the door.:(

Great tip on the Carada screens. They have a nice site as well. Would I go with the grey screen or the brilliant white?

That JVC looks really sweet but it is 5K street and I definitely can not do that. Maybe it will come down considerably by the time I am ready to put gear in the room. The Sony Pearl looks good for the dough.

[wingnut4772]

Ok. My basic two options are close off the half entirely and get a projector or leave it open and stick with a large rear projection display.

Or: Media Room VS Dedicated HT

The plus of having the open concept is that guests can watch the game etc...while playing pool at the other end of the room as well.

I think budget wise and house aesthetics are going to have me go with the open plan. I will still have the dedicated 'look' on the one end but I am going to use curtains for the French doors and leave the back open with in ceiling rear surrounds.

I still want to go the equipment closet route and have a proscenium and all that.
Maybe I can make a shelf that could give the illusion of the set being a screen or an enclosure of some sort..The only thing that sucks is that with a projector I could have a 100' screen! Still brain storming though...

I want to put (maybe ) 3 sets of French doors in instead of the one set and the 2 looooooong windows. Or maybe even four? Looking at the outside picture do you think that would work or would you say a french door/ window combo would be better?

[Sherardp]

You can leave the room open and still go with a projector. You will have to look into one that has more brightness, i.e Optoma, Panasonic, Epson. All these models offer great PQ and will give you the brightness with ambient light. The Carada BW screen is a good choice, same one I have. 100-110 inch screen would look good on that wall.

[Silverti]

Grats!!! Ive been unhappy with my progress so far. Its amazing how home project contractors like to slack off compared to the ones I use at work for buisness. Im at this point now:

http://www.silverti.com/ht/August%2018,%202007%20Mud/DSC06815a.JPG

[wingnut4772]

You can leave the room open and still go with a projector. You will have to look into one that has more brightness, i.e Optoma, Panasonic, Epson. All these models offer great PQ and will give you the brightness with ambient light. The Carada BW screen is a good choice, same one I have. 100-110 inch screen would look good on that wall.

Reeeeeeeeaaalllyyy? Hmmm. You would tell me that. I like it. I like it a lot.:D


I think I have a rack.....

It's a Middle Atlantic and I can get custom shelves based on the components..
Those Pics are from an AVS thread from someone's HT that he is building and I like the look.

[wingnut4772]

I emailed Carada and asked David Giles which screen he would recommend considering the windows would have curtains and the only light would be from the opening adjoining the room with the rest of the house. He seemed to think that unless I closed that off as well, I would not be happy with a projector in this set up.

[petrym]

I think I have a rack...
Nice rack Wingnut! ;););););)



{smacks myself for saying that one}

:D:eek::D

[Grimster74]

Wingnut, another suggestion for screens would be Elite screens. I've owned 2 of there screens and have been very pleased with them. The first one I owned was the gray matte finish which had a gain of 0.8 and I now own the white matte finish with a gain of 1.1, the website is www.elitescreens.com For the same size screen as a Carada the cost was half that of a Carada and the build quality of the Elite screens is amazing. They have the beveled, velvet frame and are very sturdy.

As far as projector, I would have to agree with Sherardp IF your were going to have total light control of your room. If most of your viewing will be done at night, by all means, look into the JVC or the Sony. Right now the JVC and the Sony seem to be the projector of choice for dedicated H/T rooms. The new Sony thats due to hit the market very soon is supposed to have a contrast ration of 35000:1 but only 900 lumens, which if the CR is correct, that should help with the low light output. Beings your room will have some ambient light issues, my suggestion would be the Epson Home Cinema 1080 like I have http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/powerlite-home-pro-cinema-1080/index.php. It is small in size and the flexability in mounting is probally one of the best on the market as far as zooms and hort. and vert. shifts go and the overnight replacement option is nice if the unit is deemed bad. I will try and post some pics later but the Epson is also a light cannon when it comes to watching movies with the lights on. Once I set the projector to one of the higher light output settings its almost light watching a tube television with the lights on. Thats was one of the whole reasons I purchased the Epson, I tend to have alot of people that want to come over and watch sporting events and it's kinda hard to do that in the dark. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

[wingnut4772]

Wingnut, another suggestion for screens would be Elite screens. I've owned 2 of there screens and have been very pleased with them. The first one I owned was the gray matte finish which had a gain of 0.8 and I now own the white matte finish with a gain of 1.1, the website is www.elitescreens.com For the same size screen as a Carada the cost was half that of a Carada and the build quality of the Elite screens is amazing. They have the beveled, velvet frame and are very sturdy.

As far as projector, I would have to agree with Sherardp IF your were going to have total light control of your room. If most of your viewing will be done at night, by all means, look into the JVC or the Sony. Right now the JVC and the Sony seem to be the projector of choice for dedicated H/T rooms. The new Sony thats due to hit the market very soon is supposed to have a contrast ration of 35000:1 but only 900 lumens, which if the CR is correct, that should help with the low light output. Beings your room will have some ambient light issues, my suggestion would be the Epson Home Cinema 1080 like I have http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/powerlite-home-pro-cinema-1080/index.php. It is small in size and the flexability in mounting is probally one of the best on the market as far as zooms and hort. and vert. shifts go and the overnight replacement option is nice if the unit is deemed bad. I will try and post some pics later but the Epson is also a light cannon when it comes to watching movies with the lights on. Once I set the projector to one of the higher light output settings its almost light watching a tube television with the lights on. Thats was one of the whole reasons I purchased the Epson, I tend to have alot of people that want to come over and watch sporting events and it's kinda hard to do that in the dark. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.



Thanks Grim. I do most of my movie watching at night but for regular TV viewing and such it's all around. How are the blacks with that projector though? I imagine I would be getting somewhat of a trade off there.
The guy at Carada did not seem to think it would be enough even with ambient light from the entrance behind and to the side of the theater..much lless with lights on.

The idea for leaving the room open was to keep the pool table in line of sight with the screen .

As far as window treatments go..what do you guys think of Panama Shutters of some sort. Would they block light enough?

[wingnut4772]

Nice rack Wingnut! ;););););)



{smacks myself for saying that one}

:D:eek::D

Thanks!:p I am also thinking of getting one and just putting it on casters so I can roll it out and work on it. It seems that may be easier and maybe less expensive.

[wingnut4772]

Ok. here is a crazy question. Does anyone know of any relatively EZ computer programs (so easy a caveman can do it) that would let me design my room?

[edbert]

Google Sketch it up. Fairly easy and it's free.

[criverajr]

http://www.avrak.com/ this will help.

Crj

[Sherardp]

I think some sort of shutters, window blinds, or even dark curtains would give you better control of the ambient light. The Epson as Grimster mentioned is a light cannon, so if you have light issues(lack of better word)then Epson will no doubt handle the situation at hand with ease. I have only seen the Epson once, and I can say yes you will definitely get the "POP" on screen with PQ. Blacks were fairly good, not the "very best" but again they are very good. And I say this only because I've seen the JVC and Sony and use those as reference. Again you if you choose the Epson youre still in good hands. Grimster mentioned the new Sony due out Sept 20., it still wont be the brightest thing out there but we'll see. Supposedly it will throw a better picture than the JVC, some on AVS have doubts on this already just by looking at the specs. If you can, I would say demo the Epson, JVC, and Sony, and dont forget about the Mitsubishi 5000bl either. If you need true light canon the Optoma HD81-LV is the brightest thing out on the market. All of those are great choices, and all of them are priced for different budgets with the JVC being the most expensive. Shoot Grimster a PM and he can get you screenshots of the Epson, and also check out http://www.projectorreviews.com/hometheaterprojectors.php

[wingnut4772]

http://www.avrak.com/ this will help.

Crj

Those seem a little pricier than the Middle Atlantic unles I am reading it wrong. I need cheap cheap cheap.:)

[wingnut4772]

Google Sketch it up. Fairly easy and it's free.

Ok I know I am blonde but I can't make heads or tails out of that Sketch it Up thing...:confused: :confused: .It's way over my computer illiterate head so I guess I will just draw it the old fashioned way.

[MSALLA]

I emailed Carada and asked David Giles which screen he would recommend considering the windows would have curtains and the only light would be from the opening adjoining the room with the rest of the house. He seemed to think that unless I closed that off as well, I would not be happy with a projector in this set up.


Could you use tinted glass and a wooden blind? The tint would cut out a good portion of the light without looking bad from the outside.

[wingnut4772]

Could you use tinted glass and a wooden blind? The tint would cut out a good portion of the light without looking bad from the outside.

The blinds/Shutters option has been rejected by my partner in crime...so far.;)

I am leaning more toward blackout curtains. Is there a way I could do no windows at all there without it looking ridiculous? I thought of maybe balancing it on the outside with a built in of some sort like a fountain or BBQ or something. I guess that would be stupid.:eek:

It's looking like blackout curtains.


The room is 42' long so my next question is ..can we get away with just doing 2 sets of french doors with side lights for the whole room with no other windows?

The 2 sets would be about $3200 with impact glass not incl. install.
I would install them balanced to either side and just not have one in the dead center as I need that solid to place a wall to separate the rooms (which I think I am talking her into:p )

This would leave me with only having to control the light from one set of french doors with side lights.

It would be 2 sets of something like in the picture.

[Sherardp]

Blackout curtains should do you just fine, as long as they are thick and of good quality. From there you can go with the Carada, and decide on a PJ. Looking forward to seeing the progress. If you can find a BB with a Magnolia Store in it you can most likely demo the Sony there, they usually have them paired with a Stewart screen( expensive screen). Keep in mind your Carada will look just as good if not better with the beveled frame.

[wingnut4772]

I went to Tweeter (Sound Advice) and saw the Sony Pearl on a 106' screen. That is a very nice picture very filmlike. I saw it with some teensy ambient light and it was tolerable but in a dark room....niiiice.:) And I did get the go ahead to close off the room...it is my half after all.:p

I can't find anyone locally with an Epson so far.....

[MSALLA]

The room is 42' long so my next question is ..can we get away with just doing 2 sets of french doors with side lights for the whole room with no other windows?

The 2 sets would be about $3200 with impact glass not incl. install.
I would install them balanced to either side and just not have one in the dead center as I need that solid to place a wall to separate the rooms (which I think I am talking her into:p )

This would leave me with only having to control the light from one set of french doors with side lights.

It would be 2 sets of something like in the picture.

That would look balanced. No windows or doors would have a commercial look to it. The twin doors with lighting would break up the wall nicely. You could put some large potted plants on the outside wall edge would dress it up some.

[bikezappa]

Ok. here is a crazy question. Does anyone know of any relatively EZ computer programs (so easy a caveman can do it) that would let me design my room?

I use pencil, paper, tape measure and ruler.

[wingnut4772]

That would look balanced. No windows or doors would have a commercial look to it. The twin doors with lighting would break up the wall nicely. You could put some large potted plants on the outside wall edge would dress it up some.

I tried doing that some with the Bouganvilla (sp?) but they are kinda dying.

I was thinking of putting a little wall fountain in the center or something.


The contractor was here today and gave me an estimate of 15K.:eek:

This would not include the french doors and sidelights , paint, or floor tiles as I will be buying those myself. It does include:

Rebuilding the entire wall with metal columns (or studs I guess) stucco, and french door install. Drywall, R30 insulation and 30 felt before the drywall.
( The contractor said the 30 felt was good for acoustics ...is this a good idea or should I save the expense?):confused:

Pull up of existing tile an re-tiling entire floor ( I buy tiles myself)

Putting up a new wall to make a separate room for the HT (with solid pine pocket doors)

Getting rid of the single glass door on the end

Getting rid of the door to the garage

Molding and casements for room and doors

All electrcal work (which will need to be all redone)

And last but not least and I am not sure I want to do this BUT for the equipment closet he recommended doing a bump out where the single glass door is and building the closet there extended from the house. So in essence I would have a tiny closet sized 'addition' to the room. He would stucco it and shingle it etc....But.....I dunno if that's a good idea. :confused:

The alternative to do it where the white wood door to the garage is would require moving the water heater, washing machine, gas line etc. It's possible but it's way more $$$$$.


My roommate also wants to keep the pass thru from the kitchen :mad:



Oh...I almost forgot!:eek: The contractor was telling me about how he built a home theater for another client and he was saying how it was a BOSE home theater and "that's as top of the line as you can get."

[phoneisbusy]

Oh...I almost forgot!:eek: The contractor was telling me about how he built a home theater for another client and he was saying how it was a BOSE home theater and "that's as top of the line as you can get."

I would hope the quality of his work is better then his home theatre preferences...
Awww... the hell with it! RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!!!.. ;)

Dave

[wingnut4772]

I would hope the quality of his work is better then his home theatre preferences...
Awww... the hell with it! RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!!!.. ;)

Dave

Yeah..I pretty much decided when he said that that he could build the room (maybe) but I would leave the HT stuff to someone else.

I am going to poo poo the idea of the 'outdoor closet'. It just doesn't feel right SOooooo...I thought of just building a false wall about 2' out from the back wall. That way I could just recess the rack into the wall and use the existing ac unit to cool the gear. Beats tearing it out I suppose. I would put a little camoflauged push door to get back there to service the ac or gear.

That would leave me with room dimensions of 8.3" H X 11.10" wide and 19.5 Length (ish)

I did some room dimension calculating and it's not that bad although I am not sure how much variance you can have or how close or far from the ideal formula you can be before it's a problem.

I don't have MS office so if anyone can plug in my dimension for seating placement etc. that would be cool.

Another thought with the false wall.. IB sub? Good spot or no?

Still brainstorming.

[treitz3]

You know Darla, some folks have made "fake windows" by installing normal windows and painting the inside black, then they apply whatever substrate over the inside of the windows. You could also install mirrors instead of the window panes. Then add your plants and fountain. If the fountain is tall enough, you won't need the windows to be big. Food for thought as some people don't like the idea, but commercial store fronts and high end custom residential dwellings have done this and it actually looks pretty cool. The false wall sounds like a good idea.

Also, is the correction of all of the sources of water included?

[wingnut4772]

You know Darla, some folks have made "fake windows" by installing normal windows and painting the inside black, then they apply whatever substrate over the inside of the windows. You could also install mirrors instead of the window panes. Then add your plants and fountain. If the fountain is tall enough, you won't need the windows to be big. Food for thought as some people don't like the idea, but commercial store fronts and high end custom residential dwellings have done this and it actually looks pretty cool. The false wall sounds like a good idea.

Also, is the correction of all of the sources of water included?

Yes. The windows will be done right and we are putting a pool/patio drain gutter thingie in and grading the patio away from the house. It still sounds a little high though when you consider the added costs of the doors, tile etc will push 20k.

Unfortunately my roommate wants actual windows/doors there so she can see out of the kitchen window and look at the freakin' pool. :mad: (sigh). I am having some issues now with surround speaker placement as the kitchen 'window' and the door will be in the way. I did not realize that french doors with sidelights has an almost 9' span. I don't want to be stuck putting the surrounds 8' high again.

[Sherardp]

That would leave me with room dimensions of 8.3" H X 11.10" wide and 19.5 Length (ish)

I did some room dimension calculating and it's not that bad although I am not sure how much variance you can have or how close or far from the ideal formula you can be before it's a problem.

I don't have MS office so if anyone can plug in my dimension for seating placement etc. that would be cool.





with the sony you could go 100 inch screen mounted at 10 -12 feet which would give you 14-16fl output. Seating position would be 10-16 feet. To achieve the best PQ I would mount somewhere in the middle of those measurements. The Carada BW screen would give you some gain also to help with brightness.

As for the epson, you could mount at 11 feet, go with the 110 inch screen, still have 13-17fl output which is bright. Seating position would be 11-18 feet, and again that using the Carada BW screen to help with any ambient light. The largest screen I would go is probably 114 inch, 16:9 ratio and thats still leaving you room for speaker placement and your dual subs. You can go bigger but thats something you'd have to decide by measuring out overall screen size including frame. 114 in screen is (106wx62h) 110 in(102.5wx60.6) so youd have to make that call.

You can find those numbers using the projector calculator here:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Pro_Cinema_1080-projection-calculator-pro.htm

[treitz3]

Yeah, I was thinking that was a little high for an incomplete job. Try haggling a bit with him. You could install the floor and save how much $$$? [knocked off his cost] You could build the false wall, saving how much $$$ [knocked off his cost]......get my drift? Tiling a floor is as easy as making ice [just a little more labor intensive] if you know how to do it. Same with building a wall.

Most of the stuff is still DIY possible. You could entertain the thought of getting him to do the things you need him to do and still having your neighbor assist with the things that can be done DIY. There is a chance here for big $$$ savings.

Would also recommend getting at LEAST three estimates and following up with references / recommendations for each contractor. Entertain the thought of having each contractor give two bids. One for everything and one for things that are "needed".

[treitz3]

How big are your surround speakers? Dimension speakin' [no pun intended]

[wingnut4772]

Yeah, I was thinking that was a little high for an incomplete job. Try haggling a bit with him. You could install the floor and save how much $$$? [knocked off his cost] You could build the false wall, saving how much $$$ [knocked off his cost]......get my drift? Tiling a floor is as easy as making ice [just a little more labor intensive] if you know how to do it. Same with building a wall.

Most of the stuff is still DIY possible. You could entertain the thought of getting him to do the things you need him to do and still having your neighbor assist with the things that can be done DIY. There is a chance here for big $$$ savings.

Would also recommend getting at LEAST three estimates and following up with references / recommendations for each contractor. Entertain the thought of having each contractor give two bids. One for everything and one for things that are "needed".


That's a good idea. We are going to get quotes from others as well. I am thinking if we are going to end up spending that kind of money I might wait 'till I can save the extra to do it concrete block. That would take a loooong time though to get my half. An easy year and a half or more.

[wingnut4772]

How big are your surround speakers? Dimension speakin' [no pun intended]

They are going to be the VS TS150

11.5"W(rear) x 3.5"W (front) x 11.5"H x 7"D. 16 lbs raw, 37lbs packed.

I was thinking of doing some dipole Triad/James Loudspeaker etc. inwalls or something similar as well but not sure how they would voice up with my Von Schweikert front stage.

Now I have to rethink my window/door design.

[treitz3]

Are concrete blocks really worth that amount of time to you? I'm thinking that you still have the rest of your house for protection during a hurricane [if you choose to stay] and if the HT room gets blown away, insurance will cover it and it's contents. Or am I wrong?

Never lived in FL, so I don't know how it is.

[wingnut4772]

Are concrete blocks really worth that amount of time to you? I'm thinking that you still have the rest of your house for protection during a hurricane [if you choose to stay] and if the HT room gets blown away, insurance will cover it and it's contents. Or am I wrong?

Never lived in FL, so I don't know how it is.

You are right. The insurance will cover it but in a hurricane if one thing goes, it all goes. Plus after being in the center of Hurricane Andrew, I really don't want any part of my house to come off while I am in it....or other wise for that matter.:eek:

That room is open to the rest of the house also so it might as well be the rest of the house.


Treitz, what do you think of him using the metal instead of wood for columns studs or whatever they are.

[treitz3]

They are going to be the VS TS150

11.5"W(rear) x 3.5"W (front) x 11.5"H x 7"D. 16 lbs raw, 37lbs packed.

I was thinking of doing some dipole Triad/James Loudspeaker etc. inwalls or something similar as well but not sure how they would voice up with my Von Schweikert front stage.

Now I have to rethink my window/door design.
Could you not either build a custom stand/shelf or [I don't know whether or not they are still in business] a pair of AVF adjustable wall mounted speaker stands should do the job. They swivel L to R and have if memory serves, a 30 degree tilt as well.

Also, an interior decorator has access to modern drop stands. Those are mounted from the ceiling, but require you drill into the top of the speaker. The wire goes through the pole, so the look is elegant, clean and sophisticated.

[treitz3]

My experience with metal framing is limited. That's more for restaurant/commercial/industrial applications. When I have run across them, all I can say is that they are a pain in the arse. Strong as heck, though. I'll give 'em that! The reason they are a pain [to me] is because 95% of what I work on is common wood framing. Metal requires a different set of tools and the substrates usually change dramatically as well. I have yet to run across a metal framed wall that had wood trim, for example. They all had the carpet tucked into the corner, then run up the wall for 4-5 inches, or rubber base trim.

[wingnut4772]

Could you not either build a custom stand/shelf or [I don't know whether or not they are still in business] a pair of AVF adjustable wall mounted speaker stands should do the job. They swivel L to R and have if memory serves, a 30 degree tilt as well.

Also, an interior decorator has access to modern drop stands. Those are mounted from the ceiling, but require you drill into the top of the speaker. The wire goes through the pole, so the look is elegant, clean and sophisticated.

I like the idea of the drop mount. I can't find any info on it. Are they called something else also? That may be my solution. Not optimal but better than 8' high surrounds.

Glad to hear the metal is so strong.

[treitz3]

I can't find any info on it. Are they called something else also?
I don't know, that's what I call them.

[wingnut4772]

I don't know, that's what I call them.

Google is showing me a ton of ceiling speaker mounts but not like that.:(

[treitz3]

You probably won't. These are usually found in multi-million dollar artsy-fartsy layouts. The price I would imagine is quite high and to my knowledge, only an interior designer who is IIDA certified would have access to the manufacturers. They get to look at all the cool stuff.

[edbert]

FYI, they have a few builders down here in Texas that build metal framed homes to be "Tornado proof." Apparently they can withstand up to 140-150mph winds, so yeah it should be plenty strong.

I would agree on the tile floor. You can rip it up really easy and laying it down isn't that big of a deal either. My sister is not handy in the least bit and she managed to do it just fine, both vinyl and ceramic types. Remember that estimates not only give you some bargaining power, but depending on the questions you ask, they might give you enough information that you need to do it yourself, or at least ask treitz and go from there. Good luck!

[bikezappa]

Wingnut I think you mentioned that you were thinking of adding a closet for all you equipment at one end of the room. I have done that also in my HT room. This layout allows easy changes to the wirering to your system and hids all the equipment. I use a Infarred to RF convert for my remotes

[bikezappa]

Photos

[edbert]

I use a Infarred to RF convert for my remotes

How do you do this?

[bikezappa]

How do you do this?

Radio Shack and others sell them. There are two small units. Point the regular remote at the reciever and it converts the infarred signal to RF which can go though walls. The second unit must be placed in front of the electronics in a closet or other room and it converts the RF to infarred and controls the electronics. They are somewhat position sensitive but work nice. Cost from $25 on ebay or $50 new.

[wingnut4772]

Breathing some life back here as it seems it may be up sooner rather than later. I am scrapping all the previous plans including projector :( due to budget ( and my manic 2 channel spree :D )and I am leaving the layout pretty much as it was but I am going to run at least 2 more dedicated 20 amp lines .

The big difference I am thinking about (and seeking your feedback on) is I think I want to put all the gear in the same cabinet you see in my HT pics (http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1263555) but BEHIND the seating area. I would control the equipment RF and I could install all my cables in the new wall that's being bulit and run them to the TV and speakers through the wall to the left.

Ahhh.... but what will the TV sit on you ask? Well I am glad you did because I was thinking of 'floating' it on a looong and sturdy shelf attached to the studs to give the illusion of a screen or a plasma etc. The cable plate would be behind it on the wall.

That would leave the front pretty open for my 2 channel rig placement.

Question One: thoughts?

Two: Can I just attach two sets of speaker cables to my R/L speakers? One for HT and one pair for two channel? Just have the other system off for either activity?

Oh and there will be 3 sets of French doors so there is a curtain budget as well.:p

[Ricardo]

Are you using different amps for 2 channel and HT? This might be a problem.....if you accidentaly have both turned on at the same time this might be bad news.
Why not use the same amp for the fronts? Does your pre have a HT by pass?

[wingnut4772]

Are you using different amps for 2 channel and HT? This might be a problem.....if you accidentaly have both turned on at the same time this might be bad news.
Why not use the same amp for the fronts? Does your pre have a HT by pass?

I like the sound of the Parasound amp better for 2 channel . My pre does not have a bypass.

[Ricardo]

You could use the parasound for HT fronts also, and not use all the channels in the other amp; not having a bypass makes it difficult....
I really have no idea if having a second amp (even if it's off) connected to the speakers will bring any problems to the amp that is running; there must be some kind of resistance there.
Swapping wires is not a good idea either.
You are not making this one easy....maybe some kind of switch box? I don't know; let's see what others have to say.

[wingnut4772]

You could use the parasound for HT fronts also, and not use all the channels in the other amp; not having a bypass makes it difficult....
I really have no idea if having a second amp (even if it's off) connected to the speakers will bring any problems to the amp that is running; there must be some kind of resistance there.
Swapping wires is not a good idea either.
You are not making this one easy....maybe some kind of switch box? I don't know; let's see what others have to say.

Actually I would not mind using the Parasound amp for Ht also but my Center channel will not be matched unless I get another Parasound.....But then how do I hook up the separate gear? I may just need to get a pre with a pass through?

I need to get my thoughts together soon...

[Early B.]

Actually I would not mind using the Parasound amp for Ht also but my Center channel will not be matched unless I get another Parasound.....But then how do I hook up the separate gear? I may just need to get a pre with a pass through?


Just use the Parasound and forget about matching the center channel or getting another pre. You're making this too complicated.

[wingnut4772]

Just use the Parasound and forget about matching the center channel or getting another pre. You're making this too complicated.

OK:o But how do I use it for both applications?


Edit: Splitter RCAs?

[Early B.]

OK:o But how do I use it for both applications?


Edit: Splitter RCAs?

No splitter RCAs needed.

Here's the poor man's alternative to HT bypass:

The output on the pre goes to the Parasound; you'll need another set of RCA cables from the preouts on the receiver to one of the unused inputs on your pre (i.e., AUX). So when you want to watch a movie, you'll turn on the pre, switch it to AUX, and place the volume at the noon position (or wherever it works best after calibrating your HT system).

It's a couple of extra small steps involved in watching a movie, but it's free and you can use your front speakers/Parasound combo for HT and 2-channel. Best of both worlds.

I currently do this. I've also done this in the past with a integrated tube amp and my HT system was the best it ever sounded.

[Polkitup2]

I do what Early B. does as well and it work's fine for the most part. What sucks is if you forget to turn the volume down on the pre when you are done with HT and you flip to 2 channel mode and the volume is at the 12 O'clock position and you hit play. I now use a Harmony remote to turn down the volume automaticaly when I am done with any multi-channel stuff.

[wingnut4772]

Thanks:) It really will bug me that the center channel won't match though..they are very different sounding amps. Oh well, I will get over it I suppose.

[Early B.]

Thanks:) It really will bug me that the center channel won't match though..they are very different sounding amps.

You'll hardly notice the difference, if at all.

[cfrizz]

Precisely. Just do it, Darla. I had an Outlaw mono for my center channel & the Parasound for my mains. I couldn't & wasn't listening to if the amps produced different sound. I was focused on the sound & the dialog being crisp & clear.

Forget about the damn mechanics & focus on the music & movies!:)

You'll hardly notice the difference, if at all.