Totem Forest or Dynaudio Focus 220

[LocoMoco]

I'd like to hear your opinions on these two speakers. I was about to pull the trigger on the Forest, but is now considering the Focus 220. I didn't consider Dynaudio before as I thought it was out of my budget, until I decided on the Forest. All my searches for posts on the Dynaudio have been positive.

What's the difference between the Contour and the Focus?

BTW, which brand integrated amp would be a good match for the Focus 220. I was set on the Plinius 9200 or 9100 for the Forest.

[haimoc]

I don't have any experience on Dynaudio Focus 220, but I like the match of Totem Forest with Plinius 9200. If you go with this path, different speaker and interconnect cables can make this particular system to sound differently.

[zombie boy 2000]

Give Totem a chance... I know you'll be pleasnatly surprisred. There's just something there..

[Zero]

Loco

Both the Focus 220 and the Forest are outstanding speakers. It would be easy to wax poetic in great length regarding their talents. Both speakers are voiced to deliver a neutral performance; offering clear highs, clear mids, with quick and tout bass. Because of this even keeled presentation, both speakers lend themselves well to virtually any genre of music. As usual, this is going to be a contest that will ultimately be decided by character.

In my experiences, to my set of non golden ears and to my taste - the Focus series from Dynaudio perfectly embodies the "jack of all trades" approach. Theres nothing they don't do well. They are easy to drive, easy to position, image well, throw a deep and wide sound stage, are coherent, great detail, can deliver foot tappin' rhythm, strong bass etc etc.. If there was one complaint I could rightfully register against the Dynaudio Focus series without a sense of guilt; it would be their dark (sometimes dull) and (often times) boxy sound. While I love dynamic cones and domes speakers, I must confess - I'm big on the boxless approach.

The most notable and non subjective advantage the Focus 220 will have over the Totem Forest boils down to bass and power handling. While the Forest can sound fine in a large room - the Focus 220 can fill that large room with wall-to-wall sound. While doing so, it will also give you more impactful (I made that word up) and weighty bass. Drums will be more felt, than just heard. Going along with this strength comes greater power handling - meaning the 220 can deliver greater volume than the Forest before distortion sets in.

Now, onto the Forest. But before I do, let it be known that my ear usually perks in the direction of Totem products. While most Totem products can be considered anything but neutral, the Forest is the only floor stander in their line-up that takes this approach. In fact, the Forest may very well be the most versatile speaker in the Totem line-up next to the Sttaf. While the Focus 220's presentation is a bit soft and dark - the Forest is subtle and lively. Theres a bit more sparkle in the high-end and a bit less weight in the lower mid-range / upper bass. Despite using similar woofers, the Forest is able to deliver quicker bass.

Non-subjectively - the Forest is quicker and offers wider, more holographic sound stage. It is a speaker that can also operate well in smaller sized rooms.

Subjectively - I feel that the Forest is more tonally rich and accurate than Dynaudio speakers. Cheesy as it may sound - while many speakers tend to chase a great FR response on a piece of paper - more than just a few Totem's tend to capture the soul of the performance and its atmosphere better than many main-stream speakers I've come across.


To cover your other questions; The Contour series uses slightly different parts with a vastly different cab. While the Contour series is absolutely fantastic, I feel the Focus series captures 80-85% of its sound for a lot less coin. If you were to move up the Dynaudio line, the Confidence series would represent the next meaningful stepping stone.

A good integrated for the Focus 220; Bryston B-100SST , Krell KAV 400i, Sim Audio Moon I-7.

Plinius - a great match for Totem. You're on the right track there.

[zombie boy 2000]

Sean...
while your assesment may be spot-on,
you still suck.

[Zero]

Just young and curious is all - Cheers Jason.

[mantis]

I agree with Zero on this but

Totem makes great speakers but they are not speaker makers. They are more cabnet builders. Dynaudio makes most of the drivers Totem uses. That already should tell you something.

In the high end world, there are few that make there own, Dynaudio and B&W are 2 of them. Even Wilson Audio don't make there own drives, They use others......

There isn't a speaker company on the planet I would rather own then Dynaudio.

The difference between the Contour series and Focus line is driver and cabnet quality. The Contour series is the next level up. The Focus line is basically like the older Contour series with slight differences. You will hear a clarity difference between the Countor series and Focus.

Go Dynaudio and don't look back.

Dan

[RuSsMaN]

Interesting first post, what Polks do you own?

[Zero]

Just a few notes for those who may be interested;

Many people believe that Totem Acoustic (along with a few other companies) use Dynaudio drivers in current production speakers. While that used to in fact be very true, no company has used a Dynaudio-made driver en mass production in well over 10 years. The reason is due to Dynaudio's shift in business approach in the mid 90's, deciding to become a speaker-maker rather than just an OEM supplier. Dynaudio initially tried to play both fields, and found that you can't t have your cake and eat it too. Today, only Dynaudio uses Dynaudio drivers. The rest, like Totem - use extremely identical cones. The drivers that Totem uses are made in Canada and offer nearly the same performance of the WB drivers from Dynaudio, improving upon them in some area's (typically in efficiency) as per requested spec.

I would also sharply disagree that Totem Acoustic is a company that is primarily just cab makers. Totem product's are one of the very few in the industry that are designed and voiced almost entirely by ear - resulting in a very unique and palpable sound that stands well against the competition for many, many years. It takes far more than just a talent for building good cab's to create an established and respected reputation in this business.

That said; Dynaudio is the real deal holyfield for high end manufacturers. Most manufacturers outsource some part of their speakers, whether its cabs, crossover parts, drivers, wire, what have you. Wire aside, Dynaudio is one of the select few that is completely self sufficient - doing it all en' house. While Totem products are voiced by ear, equating to inherent color - Dynaudio products are primarily designed via: computer - resulting in performance that is solid for both home hi fi use and professional studio work. There is something to be said for a company that can do all of this and still manage to offer an extremely competitive product such as the Focus series. What more can I say? I've got 100% respect for em'.

So I find myself ending this post in a fashion I've done countless times before now; get your listen on - and if thats not possible... learn about each speakers characteristics (and not just opinion on whats better) and see if they match what you're looking for.

Good luck!

[mantis]

Just a few notes for those who may be interested;

Many people believe that Totem Acoustic (along with a few other companies) use Dynaudio drivers in current production speakers. While that used to in fact be very true, no company has used a Dynaudio-made driver en mass production in well over 10 years. The reason is due to Dynaudio's shift in business approach in the mid 90's, deciding to become a speaker-maker rather than just an OEM supplier. Dynaudio initially tried to play both fields, and found that you can't t have your cake and eat it too. Today, only Dynaudio uses Dynaudio drivers. The rest, like Totem - use extremely identical cones. The drivers that Totem uses are made in Canada and offer nearly the same performance of the WB drivers from Dynaudio, improving upon them in some area's (typically in efficiency) as per requested spec.

I would also sharply disagree that Totem Acoustic is a company that is primarily just cab makers. Totem product's are one of the very few in the industry that are designed and voiced almost entirely by ear - resulting in a very unique and palpable sound that stands well against the competition for many, many years. It takes far more than just a talent for building good cab's to create an established and respected reputation in this business.

That said; Dynaudio is the real deal holyfield for high end manufacturers. Most manufacturers outsource some part of their speakers, whether its cabs, crossover parts, drivers, wire, what have you. Wire aside, Dynaudio is one of the select few that is completely self sufficient - doing it all en' house. While Totem products are voiced by ear, equating to inherent color - Dynaudio products are primarily designed via: computer - resulting in performance that is solid for both home hi fi use and professional studio work. There is something to be said for a company that can do all of this and still manage to offer an extremely competitive product such as the Focus series. What more can I say? I've got 100% respect for em'.

So I find myself ending this post in a fashion I've done countless times before now; get your listen on - and if thats not possible... learn about each speakers characteristics (and not just opinion on whats better) and see if they match what you're looking for.

Good luck!

Good reply.
Totem's drivers are now copies of once was for Dynaudio.What you say is very true. There tweeters however are very different. Some try to copy Dyn's older tweeters some off the wall. If you look up and down there line, you will find many different drivers and tweeters. Totem does just about everything out of house per say. But that doesn't make them a bad speaker company, if anything there one of the very best in my opnion. Just take a few minutes and listen to the Arrows. They are remarkable sounding speakers and you will be completely suprised on the driver and tweeter they use to reproduce sound like they do.

Dynaudio is a brand that every audiophile should experience one time in there audio journey.

All this talk about Totems, now I want to go out and get my listen on. I truely enjoy there product line. The RAIN is one of my personal favorites.

Dan

[LocoMoco]

I appreciate all your attention and input to my post. I couldn't have expected such an abundance of responses so soon. I would have responded earlier, but I was called into work last night. Just the nature of my job, system updates during off-peak hours. I also helped a friend work on his car early this morning.

Zero, what else can I say, you write a good read. It appears you have much insight into audio gear that is convincingly indisputable, as it appears from your peers. I'll try to demo the Focus 220 at my local dealer.

Mantis, I have auditioned both the Arro and Hawk. I enjoyed their sound, but did prefer the Forest. Just that I ran into a couple of Dynaudio owners who can't say enough about them and thought I'd owe it to myself to find more info about them.

RuSsMan, I do own Polk speakers, the Monitor 5B. I found this forum doing a google search using this thread topic. I purchased the 5B's when I just graduated from college. They have served me well, as life has consumed my attention like establishing my career, marriage, purchasing a home, and kids. With things settling a bit, basically kids are older, I wanted to enjoy this "hobby" once again. I'm trying to look into products that will be keepers for a long time. I know this may be hard!

I'm really enjoying this forum as this community are filled with nice members. I was getting a bit annoyed by other forums with people feuding all the time or being a bit stuffy. It seems you all treat each other with mutual respect with the exception of Zombie Boy! :eek: (j/k)

I'm actually building two systems, one for music and another for HT. My Onkyo will hold me over until my upgrades, then the Onkyo will go to the kids.

Mahalo All!

[phuz]

Try to give a proper listen to the LSi line, before you make your decision.

I have heard the focus line, and I own a pair of Contour S1.4, and I also really like Totem speakers from what I've heard so far and plan to spend more time with tme when I can.

Considering all that, I still keep my LSi9 and use them daily when I'm at home. I'd be curious to hear your input after comparing the Focus with the LSi line.

[zombie boy 2000]

It seems you all treat each other with mutual respect with the exception of Zombie Boy! :eek:

Yo mama

[know nothing]

I have heard both the Dynaudio Focus 220 and the Totem Forest, and think they are both great speakers. Both have been on my short list as possible upgrades for a while now. I cannot vouch for the Polks as I have not critically listened to them before. I have seen the LSi series speakers in person, and have to say I would prefer them if they had all wood enclosures.

I thought the 220's were remarkably accurate speakers that tell you exactly what is going on up stream, revealing every wart or blossom in the audio chain from performer to speaker wire. I do not recommend these speakers in combination with entry to mid level electronics - but have heard them sound very good with an expensive AR tube amp and CDP pairing. The closely related but lower priced Dynaudio Audience line is slightly more forgiving of electronics and recorded material. I recently listened to Steely Dan's Gaucho LP played on a modest Rega turntable (a P3 or P5?) through a PrimaLuna Prologue two tube integrated amp (about $1400) and a pair of Audience 52's, and was startled at the sound per dollar of that system. I like the all wood exterior of the pricier Focus series, but you need to make sure your source and power are up to the task or you will likely be disappointed. I would also stay away from cool or clinical sounding front ends, or you will risk losing the tune in all that accuracy.

Totem speakers are remarkable in that they image better than most other speakers in their respective price ranges, but each model has a personality all their own. When paired with the right electronics in the right position in the right sized space, they produce music that sounds more real than most other speakers I have heard. When the source/speaker/room match is not ideal, these speakers can sound very ordinary, or worse, discombobulated. I have been knocked over by the airy and life-like sound of Totem Rainmakers and Arros in a relatively small listening room supported by Musical Fidelity A5 integrated amp and CDP, and completely blown away in a larger room with high ceilings listening to the Totem Forest powered by mid-line Naim equipment. This later combination was one of the most appealing stereo systems I have had the pleasure to hear, ever. Strong bass, sweet midrange and airy highs.

So if surgical accuracy in an elegant Danish body that drips quality from top to bottom floats your boat, then buy the Dynaudio Focus 220's. Just make sure you have adequate electronics to make them sing, and be patient because their stiff drivers take FOREVER to open up.

If you value a true to life tonal balance, spooky soundstage, and timing that makes you want to tap your toes, I would try Totem Forest in your listening room with a succession of electronics (if that is practical) until you find that magical combination. If you are able to find that combination, it will be difficult to beat at many multiples of their cost.

know nothing,

PS - I am noticing "Polk-like" LSi-style Ring Radiator tweeters appearing on several new very high end loudspeakers from other companies (e.g. Magico, Sonus Faber). Does Polk manufacture this unit and distribute them, or is Polk purchasing them from the same source as these other speaker makers? I would like to try the Polk LSi's soon, but it is difficult to find them in show rooms along side truly high end electronics gear.

[know nothing]

Another possible choice is the B&W CM7. This is a relatively new model of small floor standing speaker that I think sounds and looks very good, but may not be everyones cup of tea with its dark wood cabinet and big yellow midrange driver. It is much more conventional looking than B&W's 700 and 800 series models, and is more than a grand cheaper than the Focus 220 and the Forest while pushing these more expensive models in audio performance. kn

[LuSh]

I own Totem speakers, have for nearly a year. Never in my life have I been so frustrated with a speaker. Dynaudio and Totem are night and day in their approach to design. Totem's are 'voiced', what you're buying is basically Vince's ears. Each Totem has a different 'voice' and eventually the Totem speaker chooses you. Or so the marketing says.

You have to understand that when listening to Totem's; they're colored more so then any speaker I've ever listened too. Some people like this coloration referring to it as some sort of spirit or 'musical force' and I can tell you from first hand experience that at times I drink the kool-aid as well. It's those other times that has me so frustrated; when certain types of music simply fall apart; when certain sounds are pronounced when they shouldn't be and other sounds are muted. When the frequency spectrum is all over the chart. For further clarification talk to other ex-Totem owner's; they will usually confirm this. If you don't want to rely on somebody's ears then simply check out the Frequency Response on any Totem really and check out the roller coaster graph. The Mani 2's and Forests will be a slight exception as they're coated with a second layer of Borosilicate damping.

I can't knock the company; great support, service...the cross-overs are even hand made by a number of women every day in Montreal. The speaker boxes themselves are lifestyle fitting, with high WAF. Totem's do quite well in Canada as they've become trendy and easy to sell. They're as much fashion as they're hifi. One big box store out west even picked up and continues to sell the line. In the US, Totem's continue to be sold by independant dealers.

I'm actually selling my Totems. I can speak honestly as I have no doubt in my mind that if I list them I can sell them within 24hrs because they're so popular in Canada. I'm actually selling them for smaller Dynaudio Focus 140's; I was originally going to switch to Aerial Acoustic's but I decided to buy Focus 140's blind as a friend told me that the Dyn's would give me most (not all) of the mid-range the Aerials have with more punch. My uncle out west confirmed this. That was enough for me.

[Zero]

Know nothing,

First – Welcome to Club Polk! Your general synopsis of the Dynaudio and Totem “house sound” is spot on and very well stated.

The Audience series aside, Dynaudio transducers are known for demanding beastly transistor amps. The Focus series is one of the first that can perform well on medium to even low powered valve amplifiers in smaller rooms. Their impedance curve is very stable and friendly – and with voicing that gives the illusion of greater efficiency, the Focus speakers truly are compatible with a huge variety of electronics. Such versatility really comes as a breath of fresh air.

Lush,

Your post perfectly illustrates the caveat to most Totem products. No model is exactly the same. This translates into what can be a hair pulling experience. It is a perfectly understandable sentiment. After all, most people are used to traditional product line structures. Dynaudio product lines fit right into tradition – there is a certain recipe of electronics that compliment the house sound. Once you get the right gear, it then becomes the simple matter of matching the room with the speaker. The general rule of thumb is; the bigger the speaker, the bigger the room. It couldn’t be easier!

Unfortunately, Totem products are not nearly as straight forward - something you've experienced first hand. From what I recall in previous posts, you run a pair of Sttaf’s. The Sttaf’s are speakers that require small enclosed rooms and typically sound best on electronics with low damping factors, such as class A transistors or valve amplifiers. If I remember correctly, you have a relatively large and open room, running a Krell integrated. Unfortunately, the whole set up is exactly opposite of what the Sttaf needs. While the Forest would be the most ideal speaker for your situation, even the Hawk and Arro would have been a much better fit. There is no questioning our perception of a product after a frustrating experience. However, in situations such as these – sometimes it’s not a fault of the product alone.

As always, everyone has their favorite types of kool-aid. Totem speakers are in general, speakers with lots of flavor. The Forest aside, they are not accurate in an electrical sense. However, for those people who, like me – associate real life music as anything but a ruler-flat experience, it’s a flavor that still manages to keep it real.

In the end, the 140 bookshelf will be a much better match for your room and electronics. I suspect they will also match your tastes much better. Good luck and enjoy!

[mantis]

It's funny I was going to post a reply like Zero's on Totems voicing. You beat me to it.
Totems in my opnion are still great speakers. i really like the Arrows. I almost picked up a pair a few time due to how good they are compared to there price tag. There not for everyone. Like anything else.

Lush,
sorry to hear your not happy with your speakers. There are hard to get right. As mentioned already, the room and gear to go with them are cridical. But Dynaudio is not. They are a demanding speaker as the better gear you run with them, the better they will sound.

Dan

[Ern Dog]

I just bought the Focus 220's about 2 weeks ago and I'm still high on the kool-aid, so my perspective is heavily slanted....

Accurate and Detailed like nothing I've heard. They really bring out the low end with lots of ummph in a controlled, clean way. Over the weekend, I had an opportunity to really crank them up between 90-100 db's. They delivered the goods without flinching. It was like being at a concert. My B&K amp however was hot to touch. I see a new amp & preamp coming soon.

[LocoMoco]

This is getting interesting and I'm appreciating the comparison very much.

Is the Focus 220 that much more forgiving in terms of equipment pairing, types of music, and room acoustics?

How would the Plinius 9200 and 9100 compare to each other on the Forest. Plinius responded to me that the 9100 is warmer and more laid back as compared to the 9200 having more ump. BTW, this was based on my previous selection of the Hawk. How would you think the Forest and 9100 pair? I was thinking that the 9100 pairs better with the Hawks and the 9200 with the Forest. What about the Simaudio i5.3 without the politics?

I was able to audition the LSi15 and thought it sounded great. I think this would make a very good all around speaker. After listening for awhile, I couldn't help to notice that rich bass. It just seemed to lean more towards the lower range. How would the LSi9 compare to the LSi15?

[Ern Dog]

I've been eye-balling this same Moon int. amp. I love the looks of it and think it would be a good match for me. What did you mean by the politics of the Moon i5.3?

[LocoMoco]

Ern Dog, just that I read another post on opinion's made referencing Totem and matching component history.

I was hoping someone could compare the SimAudio i5.3/i7 to the Plinius 9200/9100. I've read posts that some find the SimAudio clearer. Don't know if that's a good thing.

I asked Totem about the i5.3 and they replied that SimAudio was on par with Plinius. Totem uses Plinius as one manufacturer product they use in their demo room and on road shows. Totem specifically referenced the 9100, but I thought I saw what's looks more like the 9200 in a picture for one of their setups. I was hoping someone could share the differences of the 9200/9100 on the Forest.

[know nothing]

Know nothing,

First – Welcome to Club Polk! Your general synopsis of the Dynaudio and Totem “house sound” is spot on and very well stated.

The Audience series aside, Dynaudio transducers are known for demanding beastly transistor amps. The Focus series is one of the first that can perform well on medium to even low powered valve amplifiers in smaller rooms. Their impedance curve is very stable and friendly – and with voicing that gives the illusion of greater efficiency, the Focus speakers truly are compatible with a huge variety of electronics. Such versatility really comes as a breath of fresh air.

Zero, thanks for the friendly welcome, I found this site while searching the Internet for used Totem speakers.

While the Focus line may be more efficient than the higher end Dynaudios, they are still very accurate and require clean electronics and a very good source to get the best out of them - other wise you will be listening to the hash of your electronics in addition to whatever music they are able to reproduce. Less accurate speakers will be more forgiving. This isn't to say that Totems will perform better with lesser equipment, but just that the Focus are perhaps a bit fussier in that respect across the line. kn