Pioneer returns to 2 channel audio with 2 new SACD players

[Danny Tse]

Yes, this is for the US :D

Pioneer Elite's A-35R stereo integrated amp has been one of those excellent "under the radar" components that completely eluded the audio press. At the 2007 CEDIA, Pioneer issued the following press release announcing 2 new SACD players (didn't say "universal" players) and 2 stereo receivers for "critical listening"

Pioneer announces new SACD players and stereo receivers for "critical listening" (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070906005892&newsLang=en)

[heiney9]

I wouldn't hold my breath for great sounding 2ch Pioneer products. Pioneer is a company that never impressed me, even in the late 70's. Of note were some of their cassette decks "CTF" series, but even then a good Teac or Nak would equal or best them. I've never understood the attraction, IMO it's all extremely middle road stuff.

YMMV

H9

[bikezappa]

I have used and liked their recievers. I liked the simple ease of operation. While my experiences with any Sony reciever means looking at the manual to change anything but volume.

Also they made great FM tuners in the past.

[strider]

Any new interest, manufacturer-wise, in SACD is good news, IMO.

[heiney9]

I haven't used a receiver in over 20 years (sans a '86 Nak in my computer rig) so maybe my blanket comment is a little unfair. Then again I was just speaking to them entering the 2 ch. arena again. Some of the Elite DVDp's have been adequate, but the (2) Pioneer DVDp I have/had were el-cheapo on the inside and not that easy on the wallet when new.

Tuners of the past were pretty good too.

H9

[JimBRICK]

Yes, this is for the US :D

Pioneer Elite's A-35R stereo integrated amp has been one of those excellent "under the radar" components that completely eluded the audio press. At the 2007 CEDIA, Pioneer issued the following press release announcing 2 new SACD players (didn't say "universal" players) and 2 stereo receivers for "critical listening"

Pioneer announces new SACD players and stereo receivers for "critical listening" (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070906005892&newsLang=en)



I have a a-35r and I love it

[Danny Tse]

I have a a-35r and I love it

I may just break down and get one of these.

[Zero]

I can't comment on Pioneer stuff, but the Pioneer/TAD division is absolutely top notch.

[Yashu]

This is really cool for me. Pioneer is where I cut my teeth on stereo... then they kindof fell into a funk, but to see them take stereo seriously again is great news. I know I can't expect silver faces and blue lit analog dials of yore, but maybe they can manage to make a decent budget receiver.

I was in Frys the other day and saw that for mid-fi 2 channel receivers you have Denon, Onkyo, H/K, sometimes Sony... All of these units try to pack too many features into a single box... The H/K looks cool though. None of these really go into whether they are for "serious listening".

Polk's tagline for the LSi series involves "for serious listening"... so the phrase gives me a little hope.

[Danny Tse]

Here they are....

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/cedia2007/Pioneer%202CH.jpg

The receiver goes for $899.00 (MSRP) and the player is $499.00 (MSRP). The receiver was previously released overseas as an integrated amp, with excellent reviews from the British audiophile press.

[treitz3]

To me it is always good news to hear of more SACD and two-channel offerings. That's where the music shines.;)

[disneyjoe7]

I have to admit that the name Pioneer didn't impress me, but I feel they have two sides about them. One being the Kmart end other being the high end. Take their Plasma's they simply breath taken. Also my Elite 79avi is quit impressive to me on the inside as well as it sounds 2 channel. But they could make such a shitty sounding portable radio also, so it seems they have 2 sides. So instead of being so down on them I moved to a more neutral / high feeling about Pioneer over a certain price point.

[GV#27]

I have to admit that the name Pioneer didn't impress me, but I feel they have two sides about them. One being the Kmart end other being the high end.Agreed,they do make some cheap entry level stuff but it is no worse than the Sonys and Panasonics and Phillips I have seen in the same price range.
On the other hand their universal players have been widely praised for sound quality especially by the picky British press. Its interesting that several Hi end companies liked the engineering of the affordable Pioneer players enough to market their own multi $1000 players that are basically these Pioneers with some mods to the power supply,and analog stages,chassis.The Townshend AudioTA 565 ,and McCormack UDP 1 are two examples.The Townshend is a Modded DV565/563 and I believe theMc Cormack is based on the Elite DV45.

[Yashu]

Whoa those look pretty cool. I have not seriously looked into Pioneer since they started to put tacky gold trim on the power buttons and everywhere else.

Anyway... They look great.

[AndyGwis]

I had a pioneer VSX-1015 for four days and was unimpressed.

But, I have owned Pioneer Elite A-35R, DV-45a, and DV-59avi and been very impressed with all of them.

Basically, I think the "Elite" branding is more than shiny Urushi finish, gold lettering ELITE, and increased price-tag. The 59avi made me a true believer in upconverting.

[JimBRICK]

they are available in canada


http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_458700218_458700250,00.html


http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_458700218_458700244,00.html

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_32252785_458700213,00.html

[dorokusai]

The aesthetics of the new line are phenom and remind of Classe'. I think its great that 2CH listening has come back to the general population as a selling point. I'm no Pioneer fan but the new line makes me want to put my garlic and cross in the closet, good for them.

[AndyGwis]

Looks like a new edition A35R with matching player.

Definitely will be on the lookout for these once they're on the used market. I'm sure they would make an awesome small 2 channel setup for bedroom, office, etc.

[hearingimpared]

I wouldn't hold my breath for great sounding 2ch Pioneer products. Pioneer is a company that never impressed me, even in the late 70's. Of note were some of their cassette decks "CTF" series, but even then a good Teac or Nak would equal or best them. I've never understood the attraction, IMO it's all extremely middle road stuff.

YMMV

H9

They had some really great lights, bells and whistles back then. That was the attraction IMO.

BTW they do like Classe gear. They are rather sexy looking.

[F1nut]

Funny how the hardware companies keep coming out with SACD capable gear while internet/catalog retailers like Audio Advisor and Music Direct offer, nay highlight, SACD gear and yet the record companies STILL haven't gotten on board.

[wingnut4772]

I am pretty impressed with the audio from my 79avi.

[Yashu]

I don't have a single SACD... I don't think I have one album in my collection that has an SACD version.

I don't understand why they couldn't have just used 24/96 PCM audio on DVDs. How can I rip an SACD to my computer? I don't think I can... it doesn't make any sense that they had to come up with a new arbitrary format when they had a perfectly good medium (DVD) and a perfectly good format (raw PCM).

Proprietary format, Copy protection, and DRM is what ruined SACD for the masses.

[Danny Tse]

Funny how the hardware companies keep coming out with SACD capable gear while internet/catalog retailers like Audio Advisor and Music Direct offer, nay highlight, SACD gear and yet the record companies STILL haven't gotten on board.

Slightly off-topic, but this is just my guess....

I think the hardware companies, including Sony's own hardware division, knows that there's a market out there for SACD. Otherwise, why lisense the technology and put it in a player. Look at Sony's car audio division....they released 2 SACD players for the car.

The music companies, however, can't seem to get their act together. Many SACD releases nowadays are single-inventory releases (no separate CD version - think Pink Floyd's DSOTM SACD) and therefore 1 single SKU and catalog number. To the corporate beancounters, SKU numbers are what they look at. Is the consumer buying the disc for the CD or the SACD layer? Without a separate SKU number for the SACD, the corporate accounts can only assume consumers are buying the CD versions. Look at the hybrid SACD releases by ABKCO....the Rolling Stones, Sam Cooke, Herman's Hermits and the Animals....all were eventually replaced by regular CD versions with the same SKU and catalog numbers. You can buy a SACD of the Rolling Stones' "Aftermath", but to the RIAA and ABKCO suits, you're just buying the CD version. I am also convinced that the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) doesn't track internet retailers such as Music Direct or Elusive Disc, where I think most hi-rez sales comes from.

Back to the Pioneer components....it's interesting that Pioneer made it a receiver rather than leaving it as an integrated amp (as it did everywhere else outside the US). Maybe US big-box retailers are scared of amps....ooooooohhhh!!!

[heiney9]

Back to the Pioneer components....it's interesting that Pioneer made it a receiver rather than leaving it as an integrated amp (as it did everywhere else outside the US). Maybe US big-box retailers are scared of amps....ooooooohhhh!!!


I hope they aren't expecting to sell these in Best Buy or Circuit City, if that's the case might as well leave them in the box in the warehouse ;) .

Personally to me, I would have taken their entry back into 2-ch a little bit (not much :) ) more seriously had it been an integrated rather than a receiver, although I do see the benefit of offering XM radio. I guess I've just evolved past this type of gear. My goal now is to go as simple as possible, less is more and K.I.S.S.

This would be a perfect audio piece for a lake cottage, etc. because you could still get somewhat decent 2-ch sound and having the convenience of a small package and XM radio is attractive especially if the price is right.

Thing is the used market is littered with better sounding stuff probably for less money.

H9

[bondslex]

Are a lot of people buying SACD now?

[bikezappa]

Thing is the used market is littered with better sounding stuff probably for less money.

H9

How true!!!

I bought a Revox tuner and amp for about $800 that was made in the early 80s. It cost new over $4000 and quality is very high.

I wish electronics were made this well today.

[Yashu]

The used market is a great way to get the stuff now that you never could afford then. The market for this pioneer receiver is not really concerned with this though. For one thing, there are many people that see the name Pioneer and do not immediately think of audio, but they think of video. The middle and upper class buyers that Pioneer is targeting here are the kind that can afford Pioneer's plasma TVs and "elite" brand of A/V gear. These people might still have a huge album collection in CD and even vinyl (the new receiver has a phono section), and so might look to the same brand to set up a trendy new music system.

The used market is where you and I look for a good deal... you have to know a lot about what is good now and what used to be considered good, and otherwise a great deal about the hobby to get the most from the used market. Pioneer is not targeting that market.

Pioneer is just trying to give their A/V buyers an option for setting up a stereo system. To these people, the lack of a tuner might be a negative... I don't know... I think they just want to diversify. It probably doesn't cost them that much to build them in the small numbers that they are expected to sell.

[heiney9]

The used market is a great way to get the stuff now that you never could afford then. The market for this pioneer receiver is not really concerned with this though. For one thing, there are many people that see the name Pioneer and do not immediately think of audio, but they think of video. The middle and upper class buyers that Pioneer is targeting here are the kind that can afford Pioneer's plasma TVs and "elite" brand of A/V gear. These people might still have a huge album collection in CD and even vinyl (the new receiver has a phono section), and so might look to the same brand to set up a trendy new music system.

The used market is where you and I look for a good deal... you have to know a lot about what is good now and what used to be considered good, and otherwise a great deal about the hobby to get the most from the used market. Pioneer is not targeting that market.

Pioneer is just trying to give their A/V buyers an option for setting up a stereo system. To these people, the lack of a tuner might be a negative... I don't know... I think they just want to diversify. It probably doesn't cost them that much to build them in the small numbers that they are expected to sell.

Bottom line for me is Pioneer doesn't appeal to me whether it's 2 ch or HT. So I have a hard time taking their 2 ch "amplifiers" seriously. I am not amongst their target market. And why would you take the time to manufacture soemthing you don't plan to sell a lot of especially at the entry level price point and when it's preceived that the 2 ch market is all but dead and those who are into 2 ch would not even consider Pioneer.

Time will tell if it's a success or not.

H9

[Yashu]

It is a worldwide market. Pioneer can make as many or as few as they want and easily shift them around to various local markets.

Pioneer is just catching up to the other big A/V brands. They all have a 2 channel integrated or receiver offering... They don't expect them to sell in huge numbers, but there is no reason not to have some sort of product for stereo rediscoverers looking to the brands they remembered from the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

[Chicomoralessxm]

Well i'm quite curious to hear how these sound, i'm actually looking for a solid stereo reciever simply for the convience, but i wonder how the pioneer will stack up to the Rotel, outlaw and MH Mavern, it looks like it already is running less wpc.
But yes it does look nice!

[Zero]

I can always respect the fact that people are not going to get their rocks off on certain brands. Far be it from me to take away the joy of someone not liking something. While we can sit back with our feet on the table riffing wax poetic as to the wonders of high end alternatives and the good days gone by, I cannot help but send kudos to Pioneer for making an attempt to bring something two-channel back onto the table amidst a crowded market packed ceiling high with cheap plastic home theater receivers.

As time goes on, I notice that many audiophiles suffer from memory loss. There is a surprising number of them that quickly forget humble beginnings. Everyone had to start somewhere - and for most people, that starting point did not entail the glow of a McIntosh tube amplifier or a hulking Krell amplifier.

I wish Pioneer luck and will keep fingers crossed that these pieces deliver solid performance.

[Chicomoralessxm]

Well said dont take this the wrong way but that sounds like one of my bosses editorials :)

[GV#27]

I cannot help but send kudos to Pioneer for making an attempt to bring something two-channel back onto the table amidst a crowded market packed ceiling high with cheap plastic home theater receivers. Well said Zero.Its encouraging to see at least one of the big Japanese companies attempting to built a product that is meant first and foremost to sound good instead of having the most toys.A feature and spec sheet can't tell you how a product will sound but the blurb(see link) on the new integrated's show they are doing some good things with the design. Here is the link again.http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_458700218_458700250,00.html

[hearingimpared]

I am just glad to see that a company like Pioneer sees that there is a strong market for SACDs.