LOw Volume

[beardog03]

Does your rig sound as good at really low volume as it does at higher ones ?

I got up this morning, and as I was reading about a jackass neighbor in another thread, I realized just how clear and good sounding my was at such a low volume....


Tubes have been hot for 8-9 days now !!:D

[W WALDECKER]

Hey Robert,My tube rig sounds really nice even at very low volume. Enjoy....WCW III

[madmax]

Mine is awesome at low volume. The longer you listen the louder it seems. Low volume is all about tubes. Never yet heard a SS amp that did well at low volume.
madmax

[beardog03]

got any pic`s of your rig?
I was reading your sig, and it`s sounds really nice !

how do you like the modson the jolida ?

F1nut is going to help guide me through modding my JD-100 pretty soon
(as soon as I get the $$)

[beardog03]

max,
I have the stock tubes that came with my Cary installed, but really want to try the popes that I read were supposed to be magic in the Cary...

it`s true though...the longer I listen at low volumes, the louder it seems to get...sometimes !

I also noticed that at night, without all the sounds of the world going on, it sounds sooo much better...

maybe it`s just my imagination..

[W WALDECKER]

got any pic`s of your rig?
I was reading your sig, and it`s sounds really nice !

how do you like the modson the jolida ?

F1nut is going to help guide me through modding my JD-100 pretty soon
(as soon as I get the $$)Hey Robert,i still have not bought a Digital Camera yet :) there are a couple of pictures in the Club Polk DIY forum of the guts of my VK60 tube amp that MdBluePicker took after we swapped out the stock BAT/Jensen PIO capacitors for V-cap TFTF Reference Grade capacitors.The V-caps are insanely Good! I plan on getting another VK60 and doing the V-cap mod to it and running the pair of them as 120Wpc monoblocks.I love the sound of my HRAM stage 3+ Modded Jolida JD100A CD player.i have never listened to a stock JD100A to compare between the two but the HRAM version is really sweet! you are in very good hands with F1nut/Jesse so you wont be disappointed.Enjoy....WCW III

[mhardy6647]

yes. IME most tube amps sound good at very low volumes sans loudness compensation. My EICO HF-81 also still sounds very transparent and musical on track fade-outs. This is pretty speaker-independent, as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/mhardy6647/LRtubes030406.jpg

[Gaara]

The biggest improvement I experienced with low volume listening was going with a passive pre, specifically TVCs which by design sound there best at low volumes.

[billbillw]

I think my rig sounds pretty good at low volume. Problem is the ceiling fan and computer fan noise mask a lot of the low stuff, so I end up going higher.

[beardog03]

as the noise of the day goes up, so does the volume !


if I understand correctly, my amp is pure Class A untl it reaches a certain output...

maintaining up to 15w class A @ 8 ohms...
I have 4 ohm seaks , so I don`t know how that works

[schwarcw]

My system sounds great at low volume. I listen mainly at night after my daughter goes to bed. The levels are anywhere from -43 dB to - 35 dB. I think the soundstage is very holographic, detailed and deep. It does not sound as deep at much higher volumes. It does sound louder the more you listen to it.

[beardog03]

For some reason, after dark listening is the most enjoyable...

especially late night, when the XM starts playing stuff that you haven`t heard a million times before

I tried to do the headphone thing (HD-650), but just couldn`t get as much out of listening as I do with the normal (!) set-up

[hearingimpared]

yes. IME most tube amps sound good at very low volumes sans loudness compensation. My EICO HF-81 also still sounds very transparent and musical on track fade-outs. This is pretty speaker-independent, as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/mhardy6647/LRtubes030406.jpg

Man I so covet your tape gear!

[beardog03]

I sometimes wish I still had my old R to R


The one that Ken Swagger pulled out at Marks House (PF) was the nicest R to R that I have ever seen....such a sweet sound !


I believe that Madmax was alittle impressed with it also !!
I`m suprised that he hasn`t aquired one yet !

[mhardy6647]

Thanks for the compliment... wish I could afford some really nice tape hardware: Studer/ReVox,Stellavox, that sort of thing. Even a Tandberg, Otari, Fostex, or certain Ampexes. Ain't a-gonna happen.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/mhardy6647/stella.jpg

[madmax]

The one that Ken Swagger pulled out at Marks House (PF) was the nicest R to R that I have ever seen....such a sweet sound !


I believe that Madmax was alittle impressed with it also !!
I`m suprised that he hasn`t aquired one yet !


Thats the understatement of the year! I've wanted one ever since. My only problem is I don't know which type to get. I'm still mixed up on it. Half track, quarter track and a bunch of other terms I can't remember right now...

madmax

[reeltrouble1]

You know it Max, I talked some with Ken, his is severely modded, But RT1 should have reel to reel now......

as far as the thread concur, as much as I love my BAT amp at low levels the Manley Stingray is my ticket.....

Rock On Robert.

RT1

[beardog03]

Manley stingray ?!!
I was considering the Manley when I bought the Cary...
I would love to get my ears on the stingray..

oneday when I get a little better cash flow/savings, I would love to get into a stellar R to R like that....I need to do alot of homework before I go there though.

[reeltrouble1]

well hop a plane to the Fest Robert, the Manley will be hooked to some stellar gear.

RT1

[madmax]

I'm pretty stuck on the manley stuff these days including a pair of mono blocks, a pre-amp and a phono pre. Always offers sound thats a little extra special. One day I want a pair of their 300B tube amps but it won't happen soon. Sorry for the de-rail, back to the original question. SDA's with tube amps are really awesome for super low volume listening.
madmax

[beardog03]

No de-rail here bro...

I may sell my Cary F1 Sig and try out Manley for a minute

I would very much like to be at PF...I have to ge tthe grip together first

[madmax]

It is my impression that Cary is of the same or better quality.
madmax

[Zero]

Low-moderate listening levels is where I hover. My ears were never built tough enough to endure long periods of high SPL. That said, I feel my rig gets the job done exceptionally well for those often late night listening sessions.

Hell, now is one of those moments. The temp is dropping.. going to reach the lower 50's tonight. Windows open... candles are lit.... got some new products in... life's good.

[beardog03]

I`m not one for extended periods of loud music, although I do have my moments...

[mhardy6647]

My only problem is I don't know which type to get. I'm still mixed up on it. Half track, quarter track and a bunch of other terms I can't remember right now...
Realistically, a quarter-track stereo machine will be the most useful in terms of compatibility. Get one that takes 10-1/2" reels and ideally offers (at least) 7-1/2 and 15 ips speeds. The Pioneer RT-909 is funky in that it doesn't have 15 ips, but does have 3-3/4 ips.

A four-track deck like the TASCAM 22-4 gives you lots of flexibility (i.e., you can play half-track or quarter-track stereo) and 15 ips, but only takes up to 7-1/2" reels. Other four-track TASCAM decks'll accommodate 10-1/2" reels.

Here's a photo of the 22-4 in action, dubbing a CD to quarter-track stereo (tracks 1 and 3) at 7-1/2 ips.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/mhardy6647/taping100806.jpg

Sorry for the hijack. I'll go away now... :-)

[beardog03]

very Nice !

No highjack here.... I love it !

[madmax]

So a 4 track which does 7 1/2 and 15 ips while accepting up to 10 1/2" reels? That doesn't seem so complicated. That will play almost anything? I guess what I would most likely want to play is consumer stuff from the 50's and 60's. This would handle that? (sorry beardog)
madmax

[beardog03]

I`m learning too..!!

[schwarcw]

Nice stuff Mark! I've always liked the photos of your gear here and at AK. The RT-909 is nice, I have an RT-707 which does not take 10 1/2 inch reels. I also have a TEAC X-2000R and an Otari half track which doesn't see much action. The Teac X-2000 gets a workout!

Check it out!

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/schwarcw/999PowerSupply0032.jpg

Carl

[hearingimpared]

Damned show offs!!! GIMME DAT!!!

[beardog03]

nice !

[F1nut]

I'm good at low volume. I'm also good at medium and concert volume. :D

[hearingimpared]

I'm a loud kinda guy . . . I like it loud . . . the soft music is for elevators.

[beardog03]

I didn`t say soft, I said low volume !! :D

that`s what I mean...it doesn`t get "soft"...it`s still tight and crisp at low volumes...

she does great at medium and high volume also....
she even hits concert level and retains clarity without distortion or compression....:cool:

[hearingimpared]

I didn`t say soft, I said low volume !! :D

that`s what I mean...it doesn`t get "soft"...it`s still tight and crisp at low volumes...

she does great at medium and high volume also....
she even hits concert level and retains clarity without distortion or compression....:cool:

"hearingimpared," low volumes are out!:rolleyes:

[beardog03]

so medium is low, high is medium, and concert is just right !!!


:p

[hearingimpared]

Right on Brother.

[F1nut]

Seriously, I know what you're saying Bear. I'm quite happy getting my groove on at lower levels.

[beardog03]

Ruthie just came in and asked if I would turn it down..!!

It`s down already..

If I turn it down any further it will bear-ly audible

[F1nut]

Buy her a box of foam ear plugs...........then get yourself a blanket and pillow for the sofa. :D

[beardog03]

looks like I`m headed in that direction !

[Yashu]

I listen at lower volumes. Putting the tubed buffer after my DAC really made the difference. See I am one of those PC audio guys... but I built my PC to be dead silent. MY ears are VERY sensitive, and I cannot stand loud noises, but I do not want to have to "strain" to hear detail.

It is kindof hard to explain, but I do get the idea of "low volume" and I enjoy it. Some of the time I savor the most is when the volume is on the lower end. I am sure I could get by with a much less powerful amp... that is, if I did not use it for 2ch HT occasionally. I am sure my nearfield monitors draw only a couple watts when I am really enjoying music, however my towers definitely need the power when I watch movies. The NAD though... it does seem to do very well for a SS amp once I put tubes into the chain.

I have thought heavily about having two separate systems even though they would be right next to each other... but for now, I am listening to John Abercrombie's "The Third Quartet" on a low volume yet I hear every detail as I type this.

[heiney9]

I'm good at low volume. I'm also good at medium and concert volume. :D

Same here. Low level resolution is important and is an indicator (to me) of a well put together system. I've gotten rid of a few pieces from the office rig that didn't have good low level resolution. I will say with the 5b's to get any bass you need to bump them to higher than normal listening levels (in the current room sitting about 4 feet away). With the 1C's even a notch above background level everything sound excellent even the bass is there.

H9

[sucks2beme]

At my house, hi volume doesn't happen often.
Tubes do seem to bring stuff alive at low to moderate levels.
I've also heard some passive preamps also help there.
Never had any time with a passive to find out.

[Yashu]

The TVC passive seems like a cool idea because of the transformers. It's passive yet I hear it does not sound thin like other passive pres.

[Stew]

Most of my listening occurs after the wife and kids are asleep. I crank it occasionally when, by some twist of fate, I'm the only one home. My system sounds great at low volumes after one free tweak. I'm powering SDA 2B's with a NAD C370 and a tube buffer (Yaqin with JJ/Tesla 6922 tube) in the preamp-out/main-in loop. When I first hooked up the tube buffer it sounded great once the volume was up a little but didn't seem to do anything at low volume. I also noticed that the volume control was extremely sensitive at low volumes. The NAD has two preamp outs - one with an adjustable gain. I changed the tube buffer to the preamp outs with adjustable gain, turned the volume up until it sounded good, and then turned the preamp gain down until it was as quiet as I will ever want to listen. The gain is turned down approximately 1/3 now. Problem solved! Now all the detail, punch, and warmth are there at low volume and the volume control sensitivity is gone. I don't notice any difference at high volume except really loud used to be around 10:00 on the main volume knob and now it's around 11:00.

[dorokusai]

I have a music CD that has an inserted recording of jets landing at an airport on a certain track. It's absolutely wonderful in a salesperson demo.

[Yashu]

Stew, I had the same problem as you when I put my buffer between the pre out and main in. Unfortunately my NAD does not have adjustable gain... It is interesting that you had this same problem. I wonder if one of the newer small NAD integrateds like the 320bee have this adjustable gain.

[beardog03]

My Cary has R/L adjustable gains also

[hearingimpared]

I get that low level resolution with my Spectral pre.

[pearsall001]

Whether it's low, medium, or high volumn my system is very musical & satisfing. That's the beauty of a steller pair of monitors. They get it right no matter the volumn.

[schwarcw]

Most of my listening occurs after the wife and kids are asleep. I crank it occasionally when, by some twist of fate, I'm the only one home. My system sounds great at low volumes after one free tweak. I'm powering SDA 2B's with a NAD C370 and a tube buffer (Yaqin with JJ/Tesla 6922 tube) in the preamp-out/main-in loop. When I first hooked up the tube buffer it sounded great once the volume was up a little but didn't seem to do anything at low volume. I also noticed that the volume control was extremely sensitive at low volumes. The NAD has two preamp outs - one with an adjustable gain. I changed the tube buffer to the preamp outs with adjustable gain, turned the volume up until it sounded good, and then turned the preamp gain down until it was as quiet as I will ever want to listen. The gain is turned down approximately 1/3 now. Problem solved! Now all the detail, punch, and warmth are there at low volume and the volume control sensitivity is gone. I don't notice any difference at high volume except really loud used to be around 10:00 on the main volume knob and now it's around 11:00.

Good stuff Stew! Nice writeup, glad to see you posting and jamming with those 2B's.

[Stew]

Stew, I had the same problem as you when I put my buffer between the pre out and main in. Unfortunately my NAD does not have adjustable gain... It is interesting that you had this same problem. I wonder if one of the newer small NAD integrateds like the 320bee have this adjustable gain.

Yashu - The NAD website provides images of the rear panel for all of their integrated amps. Unfortunately, it looks like only the C370/C372 have the adjustable gain. FWIW, I bought my C370 from audiogon for $400. They still show up occasionally.

[Stew]

Good stuff Stew! Nice writeup, glad to see you posting and jamming with those 2B's.

Thanks Carl! I still can't believe the sound I'm getting from these after spending less than $1000 on upgrades (amp, tube buffer, CD player mods, crossover rebuild with TL mod, new tweeters).

[Yashu]

Stew... haha I had a feeling that would be the case. I bought my c350 and considered a 370 then... but man... I feel like it would be the biggest overkill in the world considering my speakers/habits/environment.

The c37x has two things now that makes it appealing to me... one was always the built in a/b speaker switch... and now there is adjustable gain.

Hey! I just looked and the seperate pre c162 has this adjustable gain too... I'll bet the c160 has it also... I may just pick one of these up and do it that way. My buffer is also a yaqin, if I do get a hold of one of these NAD units, what gain setting have you found to work the best? I am going for low to moderate volume performance.

Now I just have to find a used c160 for sale somewhere (I want to get the pre from the same generation as my integrated if I can... this is my OCD talking).

[Stew]

what gain setting have you found to work the best?

Yashu - The gain knob has 11 dots going from min to max. If min is dot 1 and max is dot 11, mine is set around dot 7.

[Yashu]

Thankyou stew... I am now looking for a c160 on AGon and ebay and anywhere else... so I think I will like havng the tube buffer in the full system chain will be nice. Right now, I am just supplanting my DAC... and it has pretty low output voltage... so I can only imagine the improvement on an output with appropriate output voltage.

[Yashu]

Stew, you still around?

I finally found a c160 and am trying it out... the cosmetics are changed ever so slightly, where yours has 11 dots mine has 4 main ones and about 8 between each, but I am trying various settings, all an improvement over my integrated (being able to tweak the gain lets me hear detail that I never usually hear. Definitely a great pre, that is for sure.

Thankyou for this little tidbit that lead me to my c160. My low volume listening just got better that is for sure.

[Face]

My system is kind of timid at low levels. I usually listen from a third to half volume. Anything past one half my ears start to hurt after a few minutes, plus the lights start to dim. :D

[beardog03]

face,

got any pic`s of those killer Mac`s ?

[Face]

There's a couple in my showcase. No full room pics till it's repainted and I put a new floor down. :D
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=78806

[beardog03]

those are beauties !

I always wanted a pair of the mac mono`s

[Face]

Thanks! I'd also love a pair of Mac monoblocks, but I'm happy with my 7270 for now. Now if I could find some Tannoy D700's, I'd be set.