Recommend and SACD Player..? [Archive]

wingnut4772

09-30-2007, 08:29 AM

OK... What would be an SACD player that would be better than my Benchmark DAC1 with Redbook to do SACDs justice. I know that there have been SACD player recommendation threads but the DAC1 comparison adds a twist to mine.:D
Looking for Audiogon used cheap etc. ya da ya da.

Edit: That's what I get for starting a thread so early....

mantis

09-30-2007, 09:31 AM

Look into Sony es. There SACD players are the best in the market at there respected prices. The 555es is a 5 disc and killer piece. Look for it.

Dan

billbillw

09-30-2007, 10:49 AM

For Sony's, I'd keep your eye open for the Sony SCD-C333ES. It is two channel only and its way better than any of the later mulit-channel varieties (except maybe the XA777ES or XA9000ES). A lot of people talk about the Sony DVP-S9000ES, which is a single disk, DVD/2ch SACD. Its supposed to have excellent sound and build quality, but it is known to have trouble playing CD-R, so that may be a factor for you. (it definetely is for me!)

I've also heard excellent things about the Marantz SA-8260, SA-8001, and their higher up reference models. Of the lower models, I think the 8001 is the better sounding (and 2ch only). I have heard of some reliability problems (or maybe just problems reading certain discs?) with the Marantz players, so you may try to find one new w/ a warranty or refurbed w/warranty.

Check out www.ac4l.com , they are authorized Marantz refurb dealer. I've bought from them before with no problems. In fact, I've been using a refurbed Marantz CC-4000 that I bought from them for more than 5 years now. Not a single problem.

Lasareath

09-30-2007, 10:55 AM

I just bought the OPPO DV-980H, it cost me with a 3 year warranty and shipped only $226.00

http://oppodigital.com/dv980h/

pearsall001

09-30-2007, 11:02 AM

I thought you only have about 5 SACD's in your collection. Unless you intend to increase your SACD library I wouldn't even bother. But if you must (you know how we Polkies are!!!) then I would suggest an OPPO. This way you at least kill two birds w/ one stone. You get incredible video & really good SACD without spending a lot of coin.

TroyD

09-30-2007, 12:28 PM

For the bucks, I'd look at a modded unit. I've had 2 Sony players modded by Matt Anker at sacdmods.com and both are fantastic. Shack has the other one now, ping him and I'm sure he'd give you his .02 on it.

IMO, a cheaper and better solution.

BDT

Lasareath

09-30-2007, 12:31 PM

I have no SACD's :(

mrbigbluelight

09-30-2007, 05:35 PM

I just bought the OPPO DV-980H, it cost me with a 3 year warranty and shipped only $226.00

http://oppodigital.com/dv980h/

Lasreath, I clicked on that link, and the DV-980H was going for $169.
With shipping to the Midwest, it came to $181.

Just looking, but ..... pretty good price.

wingnut4772

09-30-2007, 06:10 PM

billbillw

09-30-2007, 06:40 PM

I know. I am just kicking it around for thought. You think the Oppo is better than my Pioneer Elite 79avi?

Probably not for sound. For video, the Oppo 981HD is one of the best though.

pearsall001

09-30-2007, 07:55 PM

I know. I am just kicking it around for thought. You think the Oppo is better than my Pioneer Elite 79avi?

That I can't answer. The OPPO is no slouch though. Is it really worth it for the 5 SACD's that you have. The money would be better spent on your vinyl rig IMHO.

SolidSqual

09-30-2007, 08:31 PM

I bought the Oppo to play CDs, SACDs and DVDA. I thought I was going to get into the crazy world of High Resolution Audio. And I did . . . the SACDs easily kicked my CDs butts on the standalone OPPO, but then I got a PS Audio DLIII DAC. Now my CDs running through the PA DLIII sound the same if not better than my SACDs running straight off the OPPO onboard DAC (AND I didn't have to rebuy my music collection.) The Oppo is an alright transport. For now, I'm keeping it around to serve double duty for movies. But, soon I will look into the new PS Audio Transport and boot the Oppo form Music all together. My opinion, if you plan on only listening to Music and not buying a separate DAC, then go for something made by Cambridge Audio or Rega. Dont' waste your money with the Oppo and the universal audio gimmick. SACD is for the big boys who can afford the $3000 players.

F1nut

10-01-2007, 03:35 AM

Darla, some other info that you may find helpful.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57781

wingnut4772

10-01-2007, 06:18 AM

Thanks guys. Off to research.

heiney9

10-01-2007, 11:05 AM

I know. I am just kicking it around for thought. You think the Oppo is better than my Pioneer Elite 79avi?

Probably not........check that....HELL NO. For SACD to top the redbook output of the Benchmark you are probably looking at a player in the $1.5-3K range. A simple $500-600 typical player isn't going to get the job done......you already have one of those. Make sure to do your homework so you don't end up throwing your money away.

You will need to look at some sort of a modded unit like TroyD mentioned. Sony Modwright's come highly recommended as well the Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista (I think that's the one F1 has).

I haven't really done my homework for the more expensive SACD players but you need to go big to top the Benchmark. The Pioneer is already a fairly capable SACD player and you see/hear the results.

Good luck
H9

Silverti

10-01-2007, 01:24 PM

Best SACD player: PS3 :)

brijenjas

10-01-2007, 01:46 PM

Best SACD player: PS3 :)

Maybe, but I have to upgrade my recevier/pre/pro1 to use it. for SACD.

SACD on the PS3 is over HDMI only

Silverti

10-01-2007, 01:57 PM

Maybe, but I have to upgrade my recevier/pre/pro1 to use it. for SACD.

SACD on the PS3 is over HDMI only

Ya, that does suck.

heiney9

10-01-2007, 01:57 PM

Best SACD player: PS3 :)

You're joking, right?

Silverti

10-01-2007, 02:03 PM

You're joking, right?

Dont think so, are you?

MikeC78

10-01-2007, 02:05 PM

You're joking, right?

I guess if you've never heard anything else.

hearingimpared

10-01-2007, 02:18 PM

I use my Oppo transport to feed my Timbre DAC and it makes Redbook listenable. When I play the SACD of lets say DSOTM or Ziggy Stardust it blows away the Redbook version but I would never recommend an Oppo 970 HD for use as a serious SACD player. I've heard what a Tri Vista SACD can do and there is no comparision. Too bad the Tri Vistas are dropping like flies. They have a problem with the Phillips transport and once it takes a dump there is no repairing it. I think F1Nut mentioned this in another thread or maybe even this one.:o

heiney9

10-01-2007, 02:58 PM

Dont think so, are you?

No, I guess I take audio a little more seriously than using a PlayStation 3.

H9

shack

10-01-2007, 03:21 PM

Just because something CAN play SACD doesn't mean it SHOULD (at least for HiFi applications). PS3 falls squarely into that category. It is basically a no cost option that Sony can add for marketing.

heiney9

10-01-2007, 03:23 PM

Dont think so, are you?

I would also kindly point out the original post was asking which SACD player would sound better than her Benchmark dac playing redbook cd's. The PS3 isn't even on the same planet as the Benchmark dac.

H9

wingnut4772

10-01-2007, 04:59 PM

Probably not........check that....HELL NO. For SACD to top the redbook output of the Benchmark you are probably looking at a player in the $1.5-3K range. A simple $500-600 typical player isn't going to get the job done......you already have one of those. Make sure to do your homework so you don't end up throwing your money away.

You will need to look at some sort of a modded unit like TroyD mentioned. Sony Modwright's come highly recommended as well the Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista (I think that's the one F1 has).

I haven't really done my homework for the more expensive SACD players but you need to go big to top the Benchmark. The Pioneer is already a fairly capable SACD player and you see/hear the results.

Good luck
H9

I can't see myself spending that much $$$$...

heiney9

10-01-2007, 05:15 PM

I can't see myself spending that much $$$$...

Well perhaps when you do your homework something might turn out to be affordable. Especially if you locate a used Modwright or a couple of the others F1 and others have mentioned. I would think you could get into a Modwright Sony unit for around $1K, but then again I haven't really looked to hard into it.

H9

Silverti

10-01-2007, 07:23 PM

Just because something CAN play SACD doesn't mean it SHOULD (at least for HiFi applications). PS3 falls squarely into that category. It is basically a no cost option that Sony can add for marketing.

Hell everyone is entitled to their options but elaborate further on why a PS3 is not fit for Hi-Fi?

heiney9

10-01-2007, 07:40 PM

Hell everyone is entitled to their options but elaborate further on why a PS3 is not fit for Hi-Fi?

Same reason an iPod or similar device isn't considered Hi-Fi. (I know you weren't talking to me ;) ).

H9

Silverti

10-01-2007, 08:11 PM

Same reason an iPod or similar device isn't considered Hi-Fi. (I know you weren't talking to me ;) ).

H9

So pure 7.1 channel non-compressed trueHD audio over HDMI with a 1080P signal at a good 50 mb/sec backed by the most powerful proc out there (Cell) is considered in the same boat as an IPOD for audio?

I don’t consider HI-FI's requirement of a price tag to be valid, any "hi-fi" system that includes this format would work quite well with a ps3 at its head right now (BR). In 6 months, probably not... but right now?

shack

10-01-2007, 09:31 PM

....

shack

10-01-2007, 09:38 PM

I don’t consider HI-FI's requirement of a price tag to be valid, any "hi-fi" system that includes this format would work quite well with a ps3 at its head right now (BR). In 6 months, probably not... but right now?

This is a tired old argument that HiFi isn't based on price. Price is a function of quality of components and workmanship, just like anything else. I have tried many of the so called "bargain giant killers" and each one has been average at best...and certainly no competition for hi quality (not high price) gear. What would be different in a PS3 vs a quality CDP ?(1080P certainly has no bearing)...maybe power supply caps, output caps, opamps, clocks, power supply, connectors, etc...not just stuff to make it look expensive, but stuff to make it SOUND better. I like Sony SACD players but the PS3 is a game and video machine that happens to have audio...as an afterthought at best. Open one up and compare the quality of the audio components to that of a "more expensive machine". They won't tell you the how it sounds different but it will show that the quality of the sound was the primary focus.

hearingimpared

10-01-2007, 09:51 PM

....

__________________________________________________ __________

treitz3

10-01-2007, 09:53 PM

Huh?

hearingimpared

10-01-2007, 09:57 PM

Huh?

You got me!!! I typed a bunch of stuff, hit <Submit Reply> and that is what came up. I thought I was having a flash back!:D

heiney9

10-01-2007, 10:08 PM

So pure 7.1 channel non-compressed trueHD audio over HDMI with a 1080P signal at a good 50 mb/sec backed by the most powerful proc out there (Cell) is considered in the same boat as an IPOD for audio?

I don’t consider HI-FI's requirement of a price tag to be valid, any "hi-fi" system that includes this format would work quite well with a ps3 at its head right now (BR). In 6 months, probably not... but right now?

Enjoy your PS3 someday you'll get it. All that matters is it makes YOU happy.

H9

hearingimpared

10-01-2007, 10:16 PM

Enjoy your PS3 someday you'll get it. All that matters is it makes YOU happy.

H9

I remember reading where a guy found that the transports on PS2s & 3s were outperforming Levinson and others. There was a big surge on to get PS2s at garage sales and flea markets to use as transport and when they would go south just use another.

It is similar to the fellow from the UK that wrote a letter to Stereophile touting the merits of a no-name DVD player his wifer purchased for like $40 new, the transport beat all his high end transport including Krell, Levinson, and a few other I can't remember offf the top of my head. I wrote an email to that fellow and he didn't even know Stereophile put in the magazine. I believe I started a thread on this last year some time. Don't get me wrong I am not saying the PS3 circuitry for the SACD is any good, I don't know if it is or not but there may be something to the transport.

Silverti

10-01-2007, 11:22 PM

Enjoy your PS3 someday you'll get it. All that matters is it makes YOU happy.

H9

hahaha, Im proud that I can say... Right back at you on this topic, some day...

F1nut

10-02-2007, 03:53 AM

It bears repeating, it's a video/game machine. SACD audio is an afterthought.

Silverti

10-02-2007, 12:30 PM

As I recall, Sony built it and created it to be the center of the home entertainment system which includes, gamming, media, music, movies and other entertainment. Hell, they will release a cable card DVR for it next year...

The $250 Nintendo Wii is a system meant for games only.

I guess you have to actually plug it up in its proper configuration to really see what it can do.

Have any of you even auditioned on in a proper config? That the key point, people can make all kinds of quality claims but if they haven’t auditioned one, it’s all hearsay right.

Find a PS3 connected to a unit like an Onkyo 805 or Integra 9.8 hooked up to a mid-fi setup with preamps to 7.1 speakers and listen for yourself. That’s the challenge I issue.

You can even do as I do, I rip my music in WAV format now and listen to it stereo mode on your pre-pro over hdmi.

Then throw in a Nin SACD and turn it up. If you can tell a difference between it and your $1000+ HI-FI SACD player, I’ll eat my hat.

shack

10-02-2007, 12:42 PM

On the other hand...how many hi quality (SACD or otherwise) CDPs have you actually compared to your setup. And yes I have compared entry level vs high end vs modded CDPs and can easily tell a difference.

billbillw

10-02-2007, 02:07 PM

Well, if the PS3's DVD performance is any indication of how well the rest of it is built, I wouldn't be bragging about it.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133

Dead last in comparison to other mainstream players.

In general, any piece of electronics that is built to do everything, rarely does very well at anything.

hearingimpared

10-02-2007, 04:06 PM

Then throw in a Nin SACD and turn it up. If you can tell a difference between it and your $1000+ HI-FI SACD player, I’ll eat my hat.

Don't make that bet with F1nut cause you'll be asking to pass the salt!:p

aaharvel

10-02-2007, 07:02 PM

It bears repeating, it's a video/game machine. SACD audio is an afterthought.

Right. Multi-channel playback is already questionableon those things, but from what I've read the player converts DSD into PCM. (?)

That said, I've been quite pleased with my dv-46 in terms of sacd ability via the 5.1 analogs.

brijenjas

10-02-2007, 07:08 PM

Right. Multi-channel playback is already questionableon those things, but from what I've read the player converts DSD into PCM. (?)

This is correct, as of now, PS3 owners are hoping for a firmware update that will allow DSD over HDMI.

F1nut

10-03-2007, 07:14 PM

Well, if the PS3's DVD performance is any indication of how well the rest of it is built, I wouldn't be bragging about it.

That's going to leave a mark!

heiney9

10-03-2007, 07:28 PM

Have any of you even auditioned on in a proper config? That the key point, people can make all kinds of quality claims but if they haven’t auditioned one, it’s all hearsay right.

Well it would be true if you are comparing apples to apples and a PS3 is NOT a $1000 SACD player.

I've never driven a Yugo, but I think thru deductive reasoning and knowing how automobiles are designed can pretty much say it's a piece of crap as far a automobiles go. Will it get you from place to place, yes it is (was) functional, but beyond that.........

Believe or not there are people on this forum like myself who understand more than just basic audio concepts. A PS3 while it will play SACD and has a host of other features is not a true audiophile piece.

Again, whatever floats your boat. But you won't ever convince me so stop trying. ;)

H9

Keiko

10-03-2007, 07:31 PM

That's going to leave a mark!
For sure, after reading that review. Ouch!

Silverti

10-03-2007, 07:53 PM

How does one providing data rational of SACD or even BR performance using a review on the DVD player done early on before some major bios improvements were made directly related to DVD performance?

Heiney here calls it a "yugo" of SACD player while there are many opinions on the AVS forums completely contrary (oh no, who to believe???). Hell, most people still call it by far the best BR player, better than $1000 stand alone "hi-Fi" units. So if we are to judge the PS3 by that standard then it sure gives a different opinion on the matter which really matters since I would venture out and say the BR player is more demanding then the DVD player.... But go figure.

Therefore by logic here:
The PS3 is a horrible player because it scored low on a really old DVD test
Or
The Ps3 is a top of the line player because it is still considered the best Blue Ray drive on the market

Your pick

Buh bye.. I’m out of this thread until someone produces real good info.

So let’s do some more rationalization without some good proof shall we.

heiney9

10-03-2007, 07:59 PM

Silverti

10-03-2007, 08:04 PM

Good God you respond fast, didn’t even have time to unsubscribe from the thread.

What I am basically saying is that I don’t believe you. You can post a contrary opion all over the place but you have not established any real information other then "No its not".

Post up some SACD comparisons that shows how much better a $2000 SACD player is over the PS3 and I will shut up, swear to it.. I am easily swayed by legitimate comparisons. If there is a 5% of greater improvement in sounds, I will eat my hat. I am not easily swayed by the “snake oil” talk that’s in the AV industry… such as they typical add a 0 to the price and its has magic sound qualities.

Until then, I don’t consider you an authority on it.

BTW: I do have 4 SACD players in my house.

heiney9

10-03-2007, 08:07 PM

Good God you respond fast, didn’t even have time to unsubscribe from the thread.

Just sitting in front of the 'puter waiting for dinner to be ready :D :p .

Good lively discussion going on here ;)

heiney9

10-03-2007, 08:08 PM

BTW: I do have 4 SACD players in my house.

Which of them cost $1000-2000?

shack

10-03-2007, 11:56 PM

Anyone have a PS3 they want to bring to PF? We can do a heads-up against my Matt Anker modded Sony SCD CE775. A moddest SACD/CD (only) player with a few basic upgrades. NO DVD, No MP3...just redbook and SACD. We could let the group compare and see which is better. I would be willing to bet it will outperform the PS3 in both formats.

shack

10-04-2007, 12:13 AM

Then again we could demo the PS3 against Ted's MF kW. I know it replaced a Tri-Vista which was a $5,000 piece...Don't know how much the kW set him back...but it's safe to say it probably exceeds the $1,000-$2,000 range.

schwarcw

10-04-2007, 12:17 AM

Post up some SACD comparisons that shows how much better a $2000 SACD player is over the PS3 and I will shut up, swear to it.. I am easily swayed by legitimate comparisons. If there is a 5% of greater improvement in sounds, I will eat my hat. I am not easily swayed by the “snake oil” talk that’s in the AV industry… such as they typical add a 0 to the price and its has magic sound qualities.

Silverti, let me extend a friendly offer. I have never hear the PS3, however bring it over to my house and we'll power them up and do some comparison listening to my Modwright Sony NA999ES. You can bring the music. I won't waste yours and my time with the facts and specs about the differences in build quality and sound processing. You don't have to eat your hat, just buy me a burger.

IMHO there is no comparison.

MikeC78

10-04-2007, 08:57 AM

Silverti,

I'm really interested how you come to these conclusions? I have a PS3, and while it's an awesome BR player, I can honestly say it's SACD capabilities are mediocre at best.

Are there reviews that you are going by somewhere, or is this going by what you've heard?(Please don't use BR.com);) What other players have you compared it to?

I had one at the PF this year, I wasn't even going to consider comparing it to anything the guys brought over. (I'd get laughed out the house)