HD DVD or Blu-ray?

[Ethancf]

Just curious to date what the Polk-a-holics have and prefer to influence my decision on a format!

[Silverti]

BR for me but I will be forced into HD-DVD now soon. I'll probably pick up that $400 Toshiba that has 2 movies with it along with other 5 free ones. I would prefer not to be forced into HD-DVD but since the Paramount switch, to get certain minority of titles I have to and I’m not happy about it. But the "format war" since Paramount’s announcement has proven that it will not be over any time soon now... Aka, Toshiba is selling me a player so I can watch Transformers in HD on my 133’ screen.

So basically people who are “waiting” should wait for a cheap price dual format unit as this war will go the same way as the DVD RW war… the multi format drives won.

[Grimster74]

You need to add the "I own both formats" option to your poll. I myself, own both formats and I really have no preference as to which one I like better, both are amazing.

[Ron-P]

What Grim said. I own both and as far as the A/V, they are identical.

[shadowofnight]

I have the ability to play both, but I have been picking up blu-ray discs as of late because I see more of my family and friends getting either PS3's or stand alone BR players.

[mantis]

Owning both is the way to go. One isn't better then the other in my opnion.

[Sherardp]

another member owning both, Toshiba XA2 and Sony BDP S1 standalone. Both is the way to go, budget permitting.

[Barnestormer]

I picked up the LG player that does both last week or so. There is no visible difference that my tired eyes can pick up and having both in one player makes it nice. Now with my luck, someone will come out with the 3rd standard and that will be what everyone settles on.

[MikeC78]

You need to add the "I own both formats" option to your poll. I myself, own both formats and I really have no preference as to which one I like better, both are amazing.


+1 If budget allows get both; If not, get the format that has the movies of your choice.

[BaggedLancer]

HD DVD for me, wouldnt have it any other way.

Got the deal of a lifetime on my xbox 360 add-on(even though I wanted a stand alone) and couldnt refuse it.

Player and 7 free movies for $150.(1 in the box, 1 your choice, and the 5 you pick from MS)

[AndyGwis]

Yeah, I have 2 HD-DVD players. Went with it over BR simply due to the fact I found deals on an XA1 and A2 + 14 movies for like $550 out of pocket. One BR player alone would've cost me that much.

Might add a BR player over the christmas holidays, but not looking forward to buying any more $25 discs right now.

[bobman1235]

There is no differnce in video or sound quality. BR has the capability of holding more data, but with current technologies that extra storage capability is not that useful. So I went with the cheaper one :)

[BaggedLancer]

There is no differnce in video or sound quality. BR has the capability of holding more data, but with current technologies that extra storage capability is not that useful. So I went with the cheaper one :)

not anymore, HD DVD is doing triple layers 51 gb each.

HD DVD holds top for storage now.

[bobman1235]

EDIT : The triple-layer format is actually a hybrid of HD and standard, not a triple-layer HD format :

The new disc is capable of either a dual-layer 30GB HD DVD and single-layer 4.7GB configuration, or single-layer 15GB HD DVD and dual-layer 8.5GB DVD.

[BaggedLancer]

Can current-gen HD-DVD players play that triple-layer format? If not it's kind of useless for early / cheapo adopters.

Yes, with no firmware update according many articles.

[millerman 3732]

I have both, and like others have said A/V there really isn't a difference, but I prefer the HD-DVD format.

[shadowofnight]

not anymore, HD DVD is doing triple layers 51 gb each.

HD DVD holds top for storage now.

And then Hitachi up's the ante with a quad layer 100GB blu-ray disc that works with existing players :)



http://www.dailytech.com/Hitachi+Develops+100GB+Bluray+Disc+Compatible+With +Existing+Drives/article9173.htm

[AndyGwis]

What's the best value and/or cheapest decent BR player right now, btw? Might put one on my Xmas wishlist.

I'd say for HD-DVD, the best value is the XA1 because of its build quality, 5.1 analog out, and awesome upconversion for around $350 shipped. Cheapest decent / current model would be HD-A2 for $200 - $250 (HD-A1 for cheaper, but a little too old for my liking).

What are comparable BR models? I know PS3 is probably still the "best value" at $500 (gaming system + BR + movies), but I'm probably going stand-alone as to not tempt me to waste time playing games.

[millerman 3732]

I'd say for HD-DVD, the best value is the XA1 because of its build quality, 5.1 analog out, and awesome upconversion for around $350 shipped. Cheapest decent / current model would be HD-A2 for $200 - $250 (HD-A1 for cheaper, but a little too old for my liking).

The A1 and the XA1 is the exact same machine except for the front panel and a back lite remote and they came out at pretty much the same time.

[Ron-P]

I have both, and like others have said A/V there really isn't a difference, but I prefer the HD-DVD format.

Curious as to why.

[AndyGwis]

The A1 and the XA1 is the exact same machine except for the front panel and a back lite remote and they came out at pretty much the same time.

Gotcha. I always thought the A1 was the first one out, and therefore probably slower / buggier than newer models.

But, if it's just like the XA1 but much cheaper, then put it on the top of the list for best value and cheapest.

[ViperZ]

The guts in A1 and XA1 are exactly the same, but XA1 is the flagship player of first generation. I love the build quality, solid isolation feet, motorized front door, and all other bells-and-whistles that it has.

That being said, my HD-DVD move was influenced largely by number of production companies (including Universal Studios), which went HD-DVD way lately. Plus, the prices on XA1 came down so much, that I finally could afford to go and buy a new one.

Just look at Blu-Ray player prices - the cheapest one is double the price of the cheapest HD-DVD player. Also, Blue-ray discs experience huge fallout when they are built, so it's much more expensive to make 1 blu-ray disc vs. 1 HD-DVD disc (which is pretty much the same technology as the original DVD).

[Sami]

What are comparable BR models? I know PS3 is probably still the "best value" at $500 (gaming system + BR + movies), but I'm probably going stand-alone as to not tempt me to waste time playing games.
Andy, it's more than that actually. I got mine for $350 new from SonyStyle and man is it worth the money. I can stream video, pictures, music from my media server straight into PS3 thru wireless connection. The only thing I wish it had is analog outs and more support for formats (FLAC etc., hopefully with a firmware update is in the future).

I voted for HD-DVD though as I have both but prefer HD-DVD.

[AndyGwis]

Damn, PS3 for $350? For that price, I might take one home here before year's end.

[Sami]

Damn, PS3 for $350? For that price, I might take one home here before year's end.

Might be too late for that but check out Sony Style anyways. Looks like they still have $100 off when you sign up for a CC.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55950

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentDisplayView?jspStoreDir=SonyStyleStorefront&mpe_id=1908885412&cmsId=sony_card&catalogId=10551&evtype=CpgnClick&intv_id=1908884855&langId=-1&storeId=10151&storeId=10151&ddkey=ClickInfo

[Ricardo]

I simply refuse to spend any amount of money on one player that will allow me to watch only some movies; definitely won't jump into two players, and buying the dual format costs too much.

Staying with my OPPO SD here.

[ViperZ]

HTrookie, your statement is not exactly true. Both, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players can play standard DVD discs. Therefore, you can watch ALL movies.

The main reasons why I bought XA1 were not HD-DVDs. I bought it because it has better upscaling, better black levels, better sound decoding... HD-DVD playback is just a bonus for me (and a good one too).


I simply refuse to spend any amount of money on one player that will allow me to watch only some movies; definitely won't jump into two players, and buying the dual format costs too much.

Staying with my OPPO SD here.

[Ricardo]

Right, I should have said I won't buy an HD player that will only let me watch some HD movies :)

[Ron-P]

Also, Blue-ray discs experience huge fallout when they are built, so it's much more expensive to make 1 blu-ray disc vs. 1 HD-DVD disc (which is pretty much the same technology as the original DVD).

What do you mean by a "huge fall out"? I have not noticed much (if any) pricing difference between the two formats and their disc prices.

[mewrei]

200gb BluRay http://www.betanews.com/article/TDK_Develops_200GB_Bluray_Disc/1157125164

I prefer both formats. They both use the same exact Encoding spec(MPEG-2, H.264, or VC-1), both use the outrageously annoying AACS and HDCP content protection systems, both output 1080p, and both use a 405nm laser. The only real difference between the two is that one holds X amount of data and the other holds Y amount. Also BluRay uses Java for interactive content vs HD-DVD which uses a Microsoft format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#HD_DVD_.2F_Blu-ray_disc_comparison

Either way, both are awesome.

[BaggedLancer]

200gb BluRay http://www.betanews.com/article/TDK_Develops_200GB_Bluray_Disc/1157125164

I prefer both formats. They both use the same exact Encoding spec(MPEG-2, H.264, or VC-1), both use the outrageously annoying AACS and HDCP content protection systems, both output 1080p, and both use a 405nm laser. The only real difference between the two is that one holds X amount of data and the other holds Y amount. Also BluRay uses Java for interactive content vs HD-DVD which uses a Microsoft format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#HD_DVD_.2F_Blu-ray_disc_comparison

Either way, both are awesome.

That's great but theres no way current BR players are going to be able to read those. And from what I remember some BR can't be firmware updated(don't quote me on that)

So for BR its 100gb in 6 layers and HD DVD its 51 gb in 3 layers.....so it would make sense that HD DVD in 6 layers is 102 gb......about the same.

Therefore, they are relatively equal, just HD DVD is a hell of alot cheaper to get a player than BR which is partly why they are so supported...

[millerman 3732]

Curious as to why.


Well at the risk of sounding like one of those FORMAT WAR fanatics over at AVS I just think that HD-DVD is the better format. For example, and this is only my OPINION so no flaming, I like the way HD DVD menus are done (both during the movie and in setup mode) and of the 3 BD players I've tried (Samsung BDP1000 & 1400, an Panasonic DMP-BD10A) I have yet to find one that sounds as good as my Toshiba HD-A1, although the Panny is pretty close. But most likely its because HD DVD was the first one of the two formats I got in to, so there for a while I was HD DVD only and I guess I haven't given up all my loyalty to HD DVD, that all may sound stupid I know, but there it is.

[BIZILL]

i own both but my heart belongs to hd dvd. mainly now because of the interactive features not yet available to blu-ray until profile 1.1 and up. but basically, I LOVE BOTH. the more high def i can get the better!

[Sherardp]

Even though I mentioned I owned both formats, another plus for HD DVD is that there's no region codes. So I really like the fact that I can import movies and enjoy them. So far Ive imported the Band of Brothers series in HD DVD, Harry Potter, and Underworld on HD DVD. If any of those interest you check out www.xploitedcinema.com. They offer excellent service and very fast shipping.

[Shizelbs]

I own a player for each. I really don't care which format the movie is in.

[ViperZ]

What do you mean by a "huge fall out"? I have not noticed much (if any) pricing difference between the two formats and their disc prices.

When the discs are made, higher fallout = more $$$ to make a blu-ray disc.
Yes, prices for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies are the same in the stores, because if blu-ray movies were more expensive, people would simply shift to HD-DVD movies (same quality of the content, right?). More $ to make a blu-ray disc = Sony/disc manufacturer making less money (or losing money) on the discs.

[Monster Jam]

Man, what a loaded poll question! For the record, I voted "I have tested both and have no preference."

But what I really wanted to vote was: "I have no preference."

[AndyGwis]

I own a few movies in both HD-DVD and SD (Batman Begins, Casablanca, Bourne Supremacy, Traffic, etc.). You can definitely tell a difference between HD and even the best upconverting player. I felt my PE 59avi was the benchmark for great upconversion, but some movies were still grainey on my plasma, or people had "clay-face." Every time, those movies look noticeably better in HD. My plasma is notorious for graininess in dark scenes so it's easy for me to pick out picture quality.

Honestly, I can tell instantly when the FBI warning comes up that I'm watching an HD-DVD. Everything just looks better.

Now, I was watching Bourne Supremacy last night on HD-DVD and wasn't all-out wowed by the picture quality. Maybe I'm just getting spoiled by too much HD watching and used to the great picture . . . maybe I am too critical. . . or maybe it was not a great transfer to HD. Most/all others have impressed the hell out of me.

[bobman1235]

I've been watching the format war from the sidelines. I have read though, that HD DVD is the better format in appearance. No one here seems to be saying that!

I don't know where you read that, but I"m pretty sure it's blatantly false. The two formats use the same compression, and are therefore indistinguishable (barring differences in quality of actual players, cables, etc).

[Sami]

Have you compared upconverted standard DVD's to the HD formats? (identical movie) How does that compare?
They don't. Watching upconverted SD-DVD has become hard, almost impossible due to the difference in PQ. I still watch SD-DVD but only selected few titles that I know will be worth watching and are not available in HD.

[Sami]

I don't know where you read that, but I"m pretty sure it's blatantly false. The two formats use the same compression, and are therefore indistinguishable (barring differences in quality of actual players, cables, etc).

I haven't done any A/B comparisons myself but a friend with both A1 and PS3 seems to think the HD-DVD picture is much better. He must have watched different movies though which might explain it.

[Ron-P]

When the discs are made, higher fallout = more $$$ to make a blu-ray disc.

Yesterday I read an article that mentioned the cost to make each disc, both Blu-ray and HD-DVD were the same, between $2-$3. At this point I cannot remember where I read it as it was in passing looking for something else. I'll try to find it and post the link.

Have you compared upconverted standard DVD's to the HD formats? (identical movie) How does that compare?

There really is no comparison. Everything from color saturation, black levels, sharpness, detail, everything is greatly improved over SD.

[BIZILL]

Have you compared upconverted standard DVD's to the HD formats? (identical movie) How does that compare?

Thanks for your comments.

is this a serious question? highdef > standard def. those who will see the biggest difference easily are those with at least 40"+ screen sizes. but even on smaller displays, hd betters sd.




Now, I was watching Bourne Supremacy last night on HD-DVD and wasn't all-out wowed by the picture quality. Maybe I'm just getting spoiled by too much HD watching and used to the great picture . . . maybe I am too critical. . . or maybe it was not a great transfer to HD. Most/all others have impressed the hell out of me.

of course, some transfers are better than others. depends on many factors, as you well know. but you are right, some hd dvds and blu-rays look much worse or better than others. i was watching 'RV' on blu-ray and the pic quality didn't come close to , say, 'CRANK' on blu-ray.

pq thread for hd dvd: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856119

pq thread for blu-ray: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858316

[MikeC78]

Here is why people choose HD DVD over BR...

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sony_bullshit

[Sami]

Andy, I'm curious if you have seen Grand Prix? If not, you need to borrow my copy (or get one for yourself). 70mm film transferred to HD with stunning cinematography, ala 1966.

[irishaz]

I voted no preference, but that was more related to pq & sq, not functionality. I find myself using BR (PS3 through Sony Style) more than my HD-A1 if only for the load speed and occasional freeze-ups. I don't know how the newer Tosh's are, but the HD-A1 will freeze up or skip from time to time and the load times are awful. Haven't had any problems with the PS3.

[millerman 3732]

I voted no preference, but that was more related to pq & sq, not functionality. I find myself using BR (PS3 through Sony Style) more than my HD-A1 if only for the load speed and occasional freeze-ups. I don't know how the newer Tosh's are, but the HD-A1 will freeze up or skip from time to time and the load times are awful. Haven't had any problems with the PS3.


What Firmware version are you running?

[irishaz]

What Firmware version are you running?

I did an update a few months ago, I want to say it was version 2.3. It didn't say it was specifically supposed to help with these issues, but it said it addressed several "playability" issues. I have noticed some improvement since then, but the load times/freezing is still there. Don't know if it was a good thing or a bad thing, but I used one of those cheap lens cleaners a few weeks ago and it has seemed to help with the freezing problem.

[danger boy]

but what about the sound of these formats? how is the sound different or better if it is than standard DVD's?

and really. why did BR or HD-DVD even surface.. in all seriousness there isn't any need for digital discs anymore.. you could probably put movies on a small SD or XD or some other format card instead.. imagine that.. a movie on a card about the size of a stamp. how cool would that be?

[Sami]

you could probably put movies on a small SD or XD or some other format card instead..

And how much would a 30GB SD or XD card cost? Then add the cost of the movie on top of that. Does it still sound cool? ;)

[danger boy]

And how much would a 30GB SD or XD card cost? Then add the cost of the movie on top of that. Does it still sound cool? ;)

yes! very cool. it couldn't be anymore expensive than a $29 BR or HD DVD

[Sami]

yes! very cool. it couldn't be anymore expensive than a $29 BR or HD DVD

1GB SD is what, $10. Grow that size into 30GB and you have at least a $50 card. Add in the cost of the movie...$25? That's at least $75 per movie. Printed media is always going to be cheaper than re-writable so I really don't see that route as an option.

[danger boy]

Sami in todays dollars yes. by this time next year that same SD card will be about $4 prices drop every three or four months.. 6 months and prices on electronics often drop by 30 or 40+%. work with me here. i know it will never happen. but how cool would that be.. think about it.

[danger boy]

I hope more of the people here vote on which format that like... this is very interesting. Most likely i'll be buying a hi def player during the holidays.. the player with the best deal will get my bucks.

Does BR offer 5 free movies too with every player purchased?

[Sami]

And the printed 30GB-100GB disc is going to be in pennies once the production is ramped up. Majority of the price is what the studios charge for the content. Sure it would be nice to have it in smaller medium but then again, how many would you lose because of the size? :)

[millerman 3732]

I hope more of the people here vote on which format that like... this is very interesting. Most likely i'll be buying a hi def player during the holidays.. the player with the best deal will get my bucks.

Does BR offer 5 free movies too with every player purchased?

Yep.

http://www.bluraysavings.com/

[BaggedLancer]

I hope more of the people here vote on which format that like... this is very interesting. Most likely i'll be buying a hi def player during the holidays.. the player with the best deal will get my bucks.

Does BR offer 5 free movies too with every player purchased?

HD DVD does as well.......many times up to 7-8 free depending what you buy.

If you buy the 360 add on it's usually 8(1 in the box, 2 of your choice, 5 free mail in) thus leaving the player(which is great) for free. 7 movies x ~$25 = $175 movies and you buy the whole package for $150-$160.

If you buy any of the Toshi's it's usually 7(2 of your choice, 5 free mail in)

Just gotta browse around for the best deals, all the big box stores lately have been offering 2 of your choice + the 5 free deal atleast.

[AndyGwis]

My buddy just bought a HD-A2 from Circuit City a couple weeks ago (late September). Looks like the current rebate form on the HD-DVD site is starting 10/1 so I guess his receipt wouldn't be valid.

Any ideas? Do I just need to find the older rebate form for him? They have new movies on the 10/1 rebate form than the ones I chose from months ago.

[millerman 3732]

My buddy just bought a HD-A2 from Circuit City a couple weeks ago (late September). Looks like the current rebate form on the HD-DVD site is starting 10/1 so I guess his receipt wouldn't be valid.

Any ideas? Do I just need to find the older rebate form for him? They have new movies on the 10/1 rebate form than the ones I chose from months ago.

CC has 30 day no questions asked return policy so just return it and then rebuy it and use the new receipt to get the free movies.

[bobman1235]

The best deals I've seen have all been through Amazon, not sure about the CC deals.

[AndyGwis]

I'll tell him to contact CC to get a newer receipt. I was thinking that was the best option as well.

[Ricardo]

My buddy just bought a HD-A2 from Circuit City a couple weeks ago (late September). Looks like the current rebate form on the HD-DVD site is starting 10/1 so I guess his receipt wouldn't be valid.

Any ideas? Do I just need to find the older rebate form for him? They have new movies on the 10/1 rebate form than the ones I chose from months ago.


You can go here:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360hddvdplayer/

On the "Related Links" area you can get the previous rebate form.

Now, this is not for free......You'll have to answer a question :)

The 360 HD DVD player.......does the Xbox need to be on to play HD DVD's? I have the external fan and it might be annoying in silent/low volume passages...

[AndyGwis]

Now, this is not for free......You'll have to answer a question

Happy to answer your question as requested/demanded, but I have no idea if it will be the right answer.

Yes, the XBox has to be one to play HD-DVDs.

[dawningphoenix]

Yes, the XBox has to be one to play HD-DVDs.

That's why I'm not getting the Xbox HD-DVD player. Fan noise is one of those things that really gets to me sometimes, so I'm going with a standalone model, hopefully in the next couple of months.

[bykes]

Blu ray for me. More movies, more players more storage etc.

[Silverti]

Like I said earlier, I’m forced into buying hd-dvd now. So I bought a Toshiba A30 yesterday to beat the rush for Transformers. Wasn’t a bad deal since I got 7 free movies out of it. The player doesn’t impress me much, it’s like using my 15 year old Sony hi-fi VCR. Featuring its "welcome" in digital when you turn it on and broken English (even worse then mine) in the menus. Pretty cheap stuff. Oh well, gotta do what you gotta do...

I also had to do damn weird configs on my Onkyo 805 to get sound on it, didn’t like that. Over all, I’m still not overly impressed with HD-DVD. The first movie I pulled out was March of the Penguins (Which didn’t impress me at all in HD but I don’t blame hd-dvd fro that since I consider it equal to BR in sound and image on a good video rip) and the hd-dvd already had smudges on it which scratched a little when I cleaned it off... don’t have that problem at all with BR.

Format neutral by force but I am still much more impressed with BR all around.
 

[Silverti]

Here is why people choose HD DVD over BR...

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sony_bullshit

People who dump BR because of Sony are on crack, Sony isn’t even in the top 3 of the BR consortium (4th last time I saw). Many manufacturers make BR right now, people just get bent on the "PS3" thing and completely associate BR with Sony.

[Sherardp]

Im not familiar with your unit(A30) but I can surely say that HD DVD is right on par with blu-ray or beyond in a few aspects. Im using the XA2 and its a superb player and provides awesome play back and upconversion of SD DVD. Youre your pj setup you should notice a huge improvement in PQ. I cant wait to see both on my 126 inch screen. I can only imagine transformers on your 133.

[Ethancf]

Hey guys and gals, thanks so much for your input! Today, I went out and bought me a Toshiba HD-A2...Circuit City had a sale going at $249 and buy 1 HD DVD and get the second one free. Bought Batman Begins and Bourne Supremacy. When I got home I noticed the firmware was really outdated, so I downloaded the ISO image and updated the firmware to the latest 2.5 version via CD-R. I and EVEN my wife are crazy impressed with the video quality. The only thing that sucks is that my standard DVDs are going to remain at 480p max. I don't have an HDMI connection on my TV and run component...I guess upconversion can't happen via component? Correct me if I'm wrong in this.

Also, is there a deal going somewhere that I can get some free HD DVD's with the purchase of a player? Please update how to get this offer. Thanks!

[Sherardp]

Congrats on your purchase and you are correct, no upconversion via component. Good on you for updating the firmware as well, to enjoy the Hi Def audio formats youre going to want to run audio via analog 5.1 outputs, not sure if your A2 has that either.

[Sami]

Have you tried hooking up HDMI cable? Some of the HD-DVD players seem to upconvert when they have the cable inserted but not connected. It's worth a try.

[Ethancf]

Have you tried hooking up HDMI cable? Some of the HD-DVD players seem to upconvert when they have the cable inserted but not connected. It's worth a try.

No love...My Mits 65" HD RPTV doesn't have HDMI...I'm limited to component only.

[Sami]

No love...My Mits 65" HD RPTV doesn't have HDMI...I'm limited to component only.

No, what I meant is hook HDMI into your HD-DVD player. Component goes into your TV, HDMI goes nowhere. Some players upconvert when they see the HDMI is connected to the player, no matter if it is connected to TV or not. HDMI-to-Component box will do the trick but that might be too expensive just to get upconversion to work.

[Ethancf]

No, what I meant is hook HDMI into your HD-DVD player. Component goes into your TV, HDMI goes nowhere. Some players upconvert when they see the HDMI is connected to the player, no matter if it is connected to TV or not. HDMI-to-Component box will do the trick but that might be too expensive just to get upconversion to work.

Wow, I haven't heard that little trick. I'll give anything a shot to accomplish upconversion of std dvd. Anyone else have success with this?

[BaggedLancer]

Soon enough we'll be seeing ads like these on craigslist for the format that loses(if one does):

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ele/451908948.html

[AndyGwis]

I can do a search, but I am too lazy. Anyone have the Samsung BD-P1000? If so, what can you tell me about it?

Any direct comparisons between that BR model and others in the same price range and/or comparable HD-DVD models would be great.

I've seen a few used ones pop up and might pull the trigger. Anything I need to watch out for with a used one?

[bykes]

Soon enough we'll be seeing ads like these on craigslist for the format that loses(if one does):

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ele/451908948.html

Im a fan of blu-ray, but this format battle is turning out to be like SACD vs DVD Audio. No end in sight.

[bobman1235]

The difference being that the majority of people will actually care about HD-DVD / BluRay, where DVD-A / SACD was always going to be a niche market.

[AndyGwis]

Agreed. The is actual mass interest in next gen DVD formats so some kind of resolution will eventually happen.

I'm considering picking up a cheap Samsung BD-P1000, but then I'd have to start buying BR discs, and then I'd want one for the bedroom, too, etc. It's not convenient to have both formats long-term, unless better/cheaper combo players start coming out.

[doggie750]

BR rules.......!!!! Playstation3

FYI
Video (MPEG2)
16 kbit/s — videophone quality (minimum necessary for a consumer-acceptable "talking head" picture)
128 – 384 kbit/s — business-oriented videoconferencing system quality
1 Mbit/s — VHS quality
5 Mbit/s — DVD quality
15 Mbit/s — HDTV quality
36 Mbit/s — HD DVD quality
54 Mbit/s — Blu-ray Disc quality

[BIZILL]

36 Mbit/s — HD DVD quality
54 Mbit/s — Blu-ray Disc quality

i have yet to see where the 54 vs 36 has yielded any benefit...but does look good on paper.

i love both formats. i love hd dvd a bit more due to it being 'closer' to being in its 'final' spec. of course, triple-layer hd dvd is on the horizon. so blow that comment right outta the water.

both will be around for years to come. those waiting to choose one side, plan on not making a move for quite awhile.:p

[AndyGwis]

Outside of PS3, which BR players off the best value (features and quality for price) and/or which BR player would you get right now?

I see a lot of Samsung BD-P1000s but am not sure that's a good model. What about Panasonic's DMP-BD10?

I'm looking to possibly get one for $200 - $400 depending on features, quality, and price.

[fireshoes]

BR rules.......!!!! Playstation3

FYI
Video (MPEG2)
16 kbit/s — videophone quality (minimum necessary for a consumer-acceptable "talking head" picture)
128 – 384 kbit/s — business-oriented videoconferencing system quality
1 Mbit/s — VHS quality
5 Mbit/s — DVD quality
15 Mbit/s — HDTV quality
36 Mbit/s — HD DVD quality
54 Mbit/s — Blu-ray Disc quality

Oh noes! BD has bigger specs! HD DVD is doom3d!

Check back with me when that means anything...:rolleyes:

BTW, Paramount is reporting 190,000+ for the first week of Transformers' sales on HD DVD.

[shack]

Neither. I am not willing to pay more for the discs of either format. I have excellent PQ now with my current setup and see no need to upgrade. When the cost of either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD are in line with DVD I may feel the need to upgrade. So for now it's 720p for me.

[AndyGwis]

So for now it's 720p for me.

480p are DVDs native resolution. Maybe fake 720p through upconversion, though :)

It's $200 for HD-DVD player. Get that and netflix, and you're set. Cheaper than a set of ICs for some of you guys.

[Silverti]

I might have said this earlier but you seriously have to be stoned to pick the $400 Toshiba over the $400 PS3 for any reason. The Toshiba feels like a 1980's VCR. And I own them both.


http://www.silverti.com/ht/September%2017,%202007/DSC00504a.JPG


Sorry HD-DVD fans... but if I only had $400 and could only choose one, no way in hell I wouldn’t be buying the PS3.

Note in the picture the high quality Toshiba display telling me "welcome".. WTF man... Im not walking into a bar when I turn it on.

[BIZILL]

silverti.....you's trippin'!

[Silverti]

Maybe... maybe... as good ol Easy-e used to say "dont get high off your own supply"

[Sami]

I might have said this earlier but you seriously have to be stoned to pick the $400 Toshiba over the $400 PS3 for any reason. The Toshiba feels like a 1980's VCR. And I own them both.

I own them both as well and the PS3 is ugly as hell. You can get HD-DVD for much less than the PS3 is but if you ignore the looks the PS3 gives you more of course (although no analog outputs which is a major negative).

[shack]

480p are DVDs native resolution. Maybe fake 720p through upconversion, though :)

Yes I know. I bought the Denon DVD-1910 when it first came out, one of the first reasonably priced players to upconvert to 720p via DVI.

It's $200 for HD-DVD player. Get that and netflix, and you're set. Cheaper than a set of ICs for some of you guys.

Since I buy most DVDs I want to watch (current library between 400-500) and only rent movies I'm marginally interested in (member of BB online), not something that interests me. As I said, I'll stand pat until the price of either format comes down.

[hockeyboy]

The VCR comment about the Toshiba seems inaccurate. At least if that is an HDXA2 your talking about Sil. I can see it with the lousy load time on the A2 but not at all on the newer one.

[Ethancf]

I have excellent PQ now with my current setup and see no need to upgrade.

That's what I said too prior to last week's HD DVD player purchase... ;)

[shack]

That's what I said too prior to last week's HD DVD player purchase... ;)

I've seen both HD-DVD and Blu-ray "up close and personal" and yes PQ is very good...but nothing that I have to have. I watch the movies because I like the movie....not solely because of PQ.

[Silverti]

The VCR comment about the Toshiba seems inaccurate. At least if that is an HDXA2 your talking about Sil. I can see it with the lousy load time on the A2 but not at all on the newer one.

A30

The thing in a digital display from my clock radios in the 80's tells me "welcome" and "goodbye" when I turn it on and off. Yes, the 1 minute+ wait for the thing to turn on is insufferable.

Ps3 ugly? Uglier then that display telling me welcome and goodbye? Fanboyism aside, I’m sure 9 in 10 people would take the front of the PS3 over a clock radio telling you welcome when you turn a device on.

That and all the broken English and poor maneuverability in its menus. I had to friggen turn the remote beep on my Toshiba because it takes 3 pushes of a button to get it to move to the next menu item… ug… Now the thing will randomly turn off on me. I’ll wait the 1 minute startup and then the thing shuts down. Maybe I pressed the button twice? But then I gotta wait another minute for it to start up again.

But why "Welcome" and "goodbye"... Why do they think I want the thing to welcome me? Feels like my 5 year olds fisher price laptop :)

Strait up, the Toshiba player is cheap. It seems rushed out the door. It looks like the back of my kids Sony DVD player that I bought for $50 10 years ago (add an HDMI input).

Just not happy with the quality of hardware.

Again, can’t say nothing bad about he picture or sound, they are the same.


I notice that HD-DVD has a hell of a lot of "older" content available and it seems like BR has more less older but more newer. I don’t think HD-DVD will "win" by dropping a lot of old titles out. They gotta get more "trasnformers" type movies out but its BR turn next with Ratatouille, SM3 and Pirates 3.


Disclaimer:
Calling it as I see it, people who want to get in a big format war aside, at least I own both.

[bobman1235]

I guess I can't argue with your "cheap" comment, but it says "Welcome" and "Goodbye" because it takes time to turn on and off, so they are just putting SOMETHING up to tell you its alive and working. They could just say "booting up" but went with the more customer friendly "Welcome". Or they could put nothing up, and everyone would call their customer service line saying their device is broken because when they press the power button nothing happens for 45 seconds.

Seriously, your argument about it being cheap may be valid or not, I don't know, but considering you spent the majority of your argument complaining about a one-minute welcome message, I think you may be a bit biased and unreasonable.

[Silverti]

For example: Amazon right now top 10

HD-DVD:

1) Transformers
2) 2001 - A Space Odyssey
3) Planet Earth
4) The Shinning
5) A Clockwise Orange
6) Inside Man
7) 300
8) Eyes Wide Shut
9) Full Metal Jacket
10) Top Gun


BR
1) Spider Man 3
2) 2001
3) Planet Earth
4) Ratatouille
5) the Shining
6) Pirates 1
7) Meet the robinsons
8) A clockwise Orenge
9) Pirates 2
10) Pirates 3

[Silverti]

I think you may be a bit biased and unreasonable.

Fine.. I think you may be a fanboy.

But I guess Im biased enought to drop $500 on HD-DVD already... so quite illogical. Take the "review" as it is and dont apply fanboy filters.

[bobman1235]

Sure, I spent 250 bucks on a player, I want it to stick around! :)

[jakelm]

Silverti, wasnt there a firmware update to quicken boot up time?

I know there was one for the XA1.

And by the way, there have been many reports of people just programming a cheap universal remote to speed up the menu surffin.

[AndyGwis]

Damn, I created a nice long post, then the website went down. Think I said something like. . .

Middle American isn't necessarily concerned with build quality for their DVD players. The are looking for super thin, sleek, light-weight players, not battle tanks like us hifi guys like. My HD-A2 and your A30 are built for people that want HD-DVD but are looking to spend as little as possible and like the sleek / light frame.

If you think HD-DVD players are built cheaply / poorly, check out a HD-XA1. Weighs a bunch, has a solid copper chassis, etc. Build quality is on par with a Sony DVP-S9000ES I had for a while, which is saying something.

And, yes, while boot time and bugs are annoying, they are totally expected for such a new and awesome format. We are jet-setters, and, as such, we have to take the bad with the good for being early adopters.

I like HD-DVD. Its cheap (price, not quality) players provide the same excellent picture and sound (better in many cases, IMO) as BR.

[BIZILL]

For example: Amazon right now top 10

HD-DVD:

1) Transformers
2) 2001 - A Space Odyssey
3) Planet Earth
4) The Shinning
5) A Clockwise Orange
6) Inside Man
7) 300
8) Eyes Wide Shut
9) Full Metal Jacket
10) Top Gun



BR
1) Spider Man 3
2) 2001
3) Planet Earth
4) Ratatouille
5) the Shining
6) Pirates 1
7) Meet the robinsons
8) A clockwise Orenge
9) Pirates 2
10) Pirates 3

your assessment of the situation has 'ole eazy turning in his grave.:(

and his advice was wrong. there's no problem with getting high off your own supply.

[Sami]

5) A Clockwise Orange
8) A clockwise Orenge
Are these really from Amazon? Surely they mean A Clockwork Orange?

[jakelm]

If you think HD-DVD players are built cheaply / poorly, check out a HD-XA1. Weighs a bunch, has a solid copper chassis, etc. Build quality is on par with a Sony DVP-S9000ES I had for a while, which is saying something.

.



MMMMMMMMMM...Big and bulky and a perfect match for my BIG and BULKY HK 635.:p:p

[AndyGwis]

28501

They look like absolute heavenly next to each other. Same exact style, brushed silver bottom, glossy black on top.

Both have the same blue lights too. . . A match made in heaven if you ask me.

I'll crop some pics and post em in a minute.

[jakelm]

They look like absolute heavenly next to each other. Same exact style, brushed silver bottom, glossy black on top.

Both have the same blue lights too. . . A match made in heaven if you ask me.

I'll crop some pics and post em in a minute.


OMG..I cant believe.. My wife can finally shut up about.."look at the crap..darnnet...nothing matches..looks like you just through a whole bunch of junk together!!!!!"



...and as soon as I get out of jail...I can see her smile...

[BIZILL]

28501

They look like absolute heavenly next to each other. Same exact style, brushed silver bottom, glossy black on top.

Both have the same blue lights too. . . A match made in heaven if you ask me.

I'll crop some pics and post em in a minute.

that is sexy!! sans the green power button on the hd-xa1 of course.

[jakelm]

28501

They look like absolute heavenly next to each other. Same exact style, brushed silver bottom, glossy black on top.

Both have the same blue lights too. . . A match made in heaven if you ask me.

I'll crop some pics and post em in a minute.

HMMMMMMM>....I wonder if HK had a hand in building it. Thats just tooooo close.....


And mine will be right on top of one another...

And I have alittle florecent green paint I can touch up the HK's standby button.

[AndyGwis]

I'm going to eventually (possibly) grab a newer 5 channel B&K, like a 125.5 They went from red LED to a bright blue one, which will match my other components. Even my Samsung Plasma has a circular blue LED, so they'll all match wonderfully.

[BIZILL]

even toshiba's little a-2 matches the h/k, though slimmer than the xa1. been waitin' to upgrade to xa-2 or a-35, but not ready to pull the trigger. wish they stayed with the brushed and black style!:(

[AndyGwis]

even toshiba's little a-2 matches the h/k

Bizill speaks the truth. I have a HK 3480 paired with the HD-A2, and it indeed looks very nice.

[jakelm]

even toshiba's little a-2 matches the h/k, though slimmer than the xa1. been waitin' to upgrade to xa-2 or a-35, but not ready to pull the trigger. wish they stayed with the brushed and black style!:(


I dont want no little wussy , light weight, slim and thin, playa....:mad:


Give me a monster........MMMUUAAAAAAA:eek::eek:

[BIZILL]

I dont want no little wussy , light weight, slim and thin, playa....:mad:


Give me a monster........MMMUUAAAAAAA:eek::eek:

sounds like a woman's desire. lol.

[polksda]

No love...My Mits 65" HD RPTV doesn't have HDMI...I'm limited to component only.

Are you sure it's component only, or do you also have a DVI port? Check to make sure. I had a Mitsubishi 65" WS-65613 (bought in late 2003) that had no HDMI, but it had both component and DVI inputs.

If so, march right on over to monoprice.com and pick up one of these (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023102&p_id=2218&seq=1&format=2).

Before I replaced my Mits this summer (upgraded to a 70" Sony XBR2, YUM!) I had been running both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray using HDMI->DVI. Outside of the occasional handshake weirdness, it worked like a charm!


To the question at hand, I've owned both formats since pretty much when they came out (HD-DVD the 3rd week of April 2006 and Blu-Ray as of last Thanksgiving). Initial horrendous Blu-Ray releases notwithstanding, both formats are now equally capable of delivering stellar picture and audio. What differences you see (and hear) are not due to limitations of either format spec, but rather the source and/or the authoring.

I do own both formats, but my loyalties lie with HD-DVD. I like that I can import titles at will without concern of region coding (I've imported the Japanese Reign of Fire and Equilibrium along with the French 1976 version of King Kong, the UK Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, and Serenity).

I have philosophical issues with the actions and methods of Sony, Fox, the BDA, and the some of the BR fanbase.

If I were buying hardware right now, I would be VERY wary of any BR player other than the PS3. Bias against using a "game machine" notwithstanding, to date it has proven to be the most reliable and compatible BR player out there. With the compatibility issues reported with Day After Tomorrow and Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, and the looming Profile 1.0 versus 1.1 versus 2.0 issues, it's a bit of a minefield.

With HD-DVD you have existing proven functional interactivity, a finalized spec, and *mandatory* compatibility (many things are optional with BR, like some audio format playback and ethernet connectivity).

Both formats are capable, but watch your step...

P.S. Those old clunky 1st-generation Toshiba HD-DVD players are worth picking up if nothing else for their build quality. Given that you can snag them on the cheap they make great CD players. I upgraded my HD-A1 to an XA2 earlier this year. I'm still keeping my HD-A1 in reserve just in case I find a need/use for one...

[jakelm]

A Mit 65" is almost certain to have DVI.

Mine does too.

[AndyGwis]

HD-A1 as a CD player sounds like a good idea. . . but the load time might kill my music listening pleasure. 1 minute for a 2 hour movie is fine, but 1 minute for a 3 minute song or two might get under my skin.

Great post, though, Polksda! Very well thought out and mostly objective info, which is always nice.

[polksda]

HD-A1 as a CD player sounds like a good idea. . . but the load time might kill my music listening pleasure. 1 minute for a 2 hour movie is fine, but 1 minute for a 3 minute song or two might get under my skin.

I'll have to check, but I don't think the load times for CD are as long as for HD-DVD. Now if you're talking about bootup from power off, then yes, you would have a slow start up, but I tend to leave my electronics powered on.

[AndyGwis]

True. Hey, I'm shooting you a pm, Polksda, with a general BR question or two.

[jakelm]

Is the load time on the XA1, that long?? I have heard so many different things, like, the load time is quick but the menu surffing is a hassle or, the load time is long but I programed a universal remote and the menu suffing is quick now.

Which is it Andy?

[AndyGwis]

I would guestimate that from turning it on to the disc tray opening is about 30-40 seconds. Then from closing the tray to the disc loading is another 30-40 seconds, maybe less.

Really, you're up and running in 1 minute or so overall. If it's on all the time, it opens right away and you just wait 1/2 minute for the disc to start playing.

[jakelm]

I would guestimate that from turning it on to the disc tray opening is about 30-40 seconds. Then from closing the tray to the disc loading is another 30-40 seconds, maybe less.

Really, you're up and running in 1 minute or so overall. If it's on all the time, it opens right away and you just wait 1/2 minute for the disc to start playing.


Well thats not bad.... My Oppo take awhile too. 1 minute overall is not too bad at all

[Sami]

For CD's it's much, much quicker.

[jakelm]

I guess the new firmware sped it up alot.

I was reading 1-2 minutes for boot up and another minute for disk load.

Andy, do you leave yours on?

[AndyGwis]

Nah. I leave my B&K amp on 24X7, but not my HK or XA1. No real reason for turning it off, except that I only use it 3 times a week or so.

I don't think it would hurt to leave it on. It does have a fan that kicks on after a while (not loud or anything) but I guess that means it eventually gets hot, and I'd rather not have it hot all the time.

[jakelm]

Nah. I leave my B&K amp on 24X7, but not my HK or XA1. No real reason for turning it off, except that I only use it 3 times a week or so.

I don't think it would hurt to leave it on. It does have a fan that kicks on after a while (not loud or anything) but I guess that means it eventually gets hot, and I'd rather not have it hot all the time.


Cool..Thanks:D

[bobman1235]

It'll hurt your electric bill, I'll tell you that much. You guys really leave all these electronics on 24/7?

[jakelm]

It'll hurt your electric bill, I'll tell you that much. You guys really leave all these electronics on 24/7?

Yes, my HK AVR stays on all the time. My Hafler amp stays on all the time. My cable box stays on all the time. Even my living room ceiling fan stays on all the time.

I went 2 months turning everything off, no change in electric bill.

[bobman1235]

Interesting. Just curious.

I leave my DVR on all the time, and my PC. Considering how damn hot my H/K gets, I would never dream of leaving that on when I wasn't home. Fan or not, I'm convinced it woudl burn my house to the ground.

[jakelm]

Interesting. Just curious.

I leave my DVR on all the time, and my PC. Considering how damn hot my H/K gets, I would never dream of leaving that on when I wasn't home. Fan or not, I'm convinced it woudl burn my house to the ground.


My central heating cycles alot less with my HK and Hafler on in a 24 x 18 room....lol:D

[Barnestormer]

The plasma seems to put out far more heat than anything else, but that is not on too much. I don't think the sound gear is as bad as the pc gear.:D

[kingkip]

HD-DVD only because Sony is pissing me off lately.

[Silverti]

HD-DVD only because Sony is pissing me off lately.


Then buy a Samsung BR player. Sony isnt even the biggest player in BR (#4), they just happen to make players and put BR in the PS3. But not picking BR because of Sony is goofy.

[Silverti]

Wow! Found this!



"Washington, D.C. (October 23, 2007) -- Paramount says the new HD DVD of Transformers sold 100,000 copies on its first day and 190,000 in the first week.

The studio says that makes it the fastest selling HD DVD of of all time. (Transformers was released on October 16.)

Variety reports that Warner's 300 sold 250,000 copies in the first week, which will still make it the fastest selling high-disc of all time. (Warner releases films on both Blu-ray and HD DVD.)

However, the studio's announcement was somewhat overshadowed by another controversial statement from Transformers director Michael Bay regarding the format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Bay said in August that he might not direct the Transformers sequel after hearing that Paramount would endorse HD DVD exclusively in the war. The director seemed to indicate that he favored Blu-ray.

[BIZILL]

Wow! Found this!



"Washington, D.C. (October 23, 2007) -- Paramount says the new HD DVD of Transformers sold 100,000 copies on its first day and 190,000 in the first week.

The studio says that makes it the fastest selling HD DVD of of all time. (Transformers was released on October 16.)

Variety reports that Warner's 300 sold 250,000 copies in the first week, which will still make it the fastest selling high-disc of all time. (Warner releases films on both Blu-ray and HD DVD.)

However, the studio's announcement was somewhat overshadowed by another controversial statement from Transformers director Michael Bay regarding the format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Bay said in August that he might not direct the Transformers sequel after hearing that Paramount would endorse HD DVD exclusively in the war. The director seemed to indicate that he favored Blu-ray.

he actually said that months ago when transformers went hd dvd exclusive. means nothing. you'll see...

[AndyGwis]

Let's hope Bay doesn't direct the sequel. Maybe they will get a different / real director. The first was great, but mostly because of special effects and not plot or character development. That's fine for one innovative movie, but no for three (look at Matrix, same effects in all three got old).

[bobman1235]

I believe his quote was something more to the effect of "he wanted the consumer to have the greatest number of options" and was angry that the studio limited Transformers to any one format.

[BIZILL]

his statement alone as well as acting childish will not slow the train that is HD DVD.

[polksda]

Bay has a history of being a whiney little bitch.

[Sherardp]

Bay has a history of being a whiney little bitch.

Classic. He should get over it, and so what if he doesnt direct the next one, the show is still going to go on.

[Ricardo]

Last night I went to Circuit City to pick up something and had my first encounter with the new format. They had a Blue Ray display and some animated movie was on.

Fu**ing Oh My God!!!!! That thing is unreal. Makes me want to get one of these new format players. Still, I hate the fact that there's this war and you are limited to which movies you can see based on the format you choose.
I guess I'll wait for those multi format players to go down in price. But man, what an awesome picture.

[jakelm]

The only reason I can see that HD will beat BR, is price. Right now you can find a HD player for as cheap a upconverting or higher end sd player. My XA1 is one of the best purchases I made. Very inexpensive (preowned) and awsome picture. Even the 360 addon, is dirt cheap compared to BR.

I just dont know of one BR player that you can pick up for under $300 (new or used).

So I beleive it will altimatly come down to price...

[Ricardo]

:o:o:o:o:o

I guess my word is not that good these days....

I just pre-ordered the Toshiba HD-A3 from Amazon.
Player, plus two included movies (300 & The Bourne Identity), plus the 5 movies on the rebate for $299.....not that bad.

The player is only 1080i, but that's what my TV has and I don't plan to upgrade any time soon (really).

I also bought the BBC Planet Earth in HD-DVD.

Oh, yes, I voted HD-DVD :)

Now to get all those HD-DVD's on my Blockbuster's queue....

[jakelm]

:o:o:o:o:o

I guess my word is not that good these days....

I just pre-ordered the Toshiba HD-A3 from Amazon.
Player, plus two included movies (300 & The Bourne Identity), plus the 5 movies on the rebate for $299.....not that bad.

The player is only 1080i, but that's what my TV has and I don't plan to upgrade any time soon (really).

I also bought the BBC Planet Earth in HD-DVD.

Oh, yes, I voted HD-DVD :)

Most tv's that can handle 1080p upconvert anyways, so sending it a 1080i signal (in my book) is just as good.

[Ron-P]

Wow! Found this!



"Washington, D.C. (October 23, 2007) -- Paramount says the new HD DVD of Transformers sold 100,000 copies on its first day and 190,000 in the first week.

The studio says that makes it the fastest selling HD DVD of of all time. (Transformers was released on October 16.)

Variety reports that Warner's 300 sold 250,000 copies in the first week, which will still make it the fastest selling high-disc of all time. (Warner releases films on both Blu-ray and HD DVD.)

However, the studio's announcement was somewhat overshadowed by another controversial statement from Transformers director Michael Bay regarding the format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Bay said in August that he might not direct the Transformers sequel after hearing that Paramount would endorse HD DVD exclusively in the war. The director seemed to indicate that he favored Blu-ray.


And even with those Transformers numbers Blu-ray sales, even with no major release's, still out sold HD-DVD.

[Early B.]

:o:o:o:o:o

I guess my word is not that good these days....

I just pre-ordered the Toshiba HD-A3 from Amazon.

Cool.

What's the difference between the A2 and the A3?

[millerman 3732]

From what I've read not much, alot of people are calling the A3 A2.5

[BIZILL]

And even with those Transformers numbers Blu-ray sales, even with no major release's, still out sold HD-DVD.

yup. blu-ray will still dominate sales for some time to come. ps3 was planned to be a trojan horse, and that it is. it brought blu-ray into many homes, and many of which did not expect to get into the format.

i still feel there will be no winner of the two formats. co-existance seems to be the projected path. too much vested in both sides and enough adoption for both. combo players still have a long way to go to be compliant to both formats. hell, even each one's respective hardware can play its own format with 100% reliability. my only advice, if you've got fundage, is to get a player for each format. even that route will be cheaper than these up-coming 'combo-format' players.

[Ricardo]

Cool.

What's the difference between the A2 and the A3?


Diferent looks, a tad smaller, no S-Video. Basically the same thing. i wonder what's the deal on getting more and more models out....maybe because Toshiba is the ONLY manufacturer with HD-DVD players and want to cover everyone's tastes???

[Early B.]

i still feel there will be no winner of the two formats. co-existance seems to be the projected path. too much vested in both sides and enough adoption for both.

You have a good point. I didn't realize how many HD-DVD disks have already been developed in such a short time frame, with many more on the horizon. Damn! I'm sure Blu-Ray is the same. Neither format is going anywhere for a while. Besides, you'll soon be able to get into an HD-DVD player for under $200 (I'm guessing that by Christmas the HD-A2's will be $199). It'll take Blu-Ray a lot longer to reach the under $200 threshold.

And since most of your good movies are coming out in both formats now, choose a format and be done with it. For the price, I say go HD-DVD!!!:D

[kingkip]

Then buy a Samsung BR player. Sony isnt even the biggest player in BR (#4), they just happen to make players and put BR in the PS3. But not picking BR because of Sony is goofy.


How do you figure? Sony movies are exclusively on BR, and the BR technology is licenced from them. Buying BR would mean I support the format Sony supports and profits from, hence helping sony. And sony is pissing me off lately.

[jakelm]

And since most of your good movies are coming out in both formats now, choose a format and be done with it. For the price, I say go HD-DVD!!!:D


In that, holds the problem. BR movies, HD movies, not all are in the same format.

Fantastic 4, great movie, no HD, only BR. And I know there are many other examples where, one great movie on BR the other great movie on HD.

In a perfect world, I wish every movie was on both formats. But until then, I'll just have to buy the SD instead of BR and upconvert it. And buy what I can in HD.

So the deciding factor in most cases, is, what movies do I want to watch/own in HiDef and what format are they in, thats the player I'm buying. If all your favorite movies are in BR, why buy a HD player?, and vice versa.

[Ricardo]

In that, holds the problem. BR movies, HD movies, not all are in the same format.

Fantastic 4, great movie, no HD, only BR. And I know there are many other examples where, one great movie on BR the other great movie on HD.

In a perfect world, I wish every movie was on both formats. But until then, I'll just have to buy the SD instead of BR and upconvert it. And buy what I can in HD.

So the deciding factor in most cases, is, what movies do I want to watch/own in HiDef and what format are they in, thats the player I'm buying. If all your favorite movies are in BR, why buy a HD player?, and vice versa.

Because whatever player you buy, the following day they will announce that a few movies you love will be issued in the other format :)

[BIZILL]

thus going format neutral is the only way to achieve happiness. also a good way to achieve thinner wallets.

[Silverti]

How do you figure? Sony movies are exclusively on BR, and the BR technology is licenced from them. Buying BR would mean I support the format Sony supports and profits from, hence helping sony. And sony is pissing me off lately.

Anger leads to the dark side of the force young Jedi! Sony is not the dark side of the force! Apple is the dark side of the force! Use your powers wisely :)

[malikarshad]

thus going format neutral is the only way to achieve happiness. also a good way to achieve thinner wallets.
That's what I had to do. I was an early adopter of Blu-Ray as most of movies I liked were on BR but then Transformers was exclusive on HD-DVD. And mnay upcoming titles like Shrek3 are HD exclusive. So I ended up buyuing A2.
Its hard to go back to SD (even upconverted) after having experienced movies in HD.

[bobman1235]

Rumor is Wal-Mart is going to have a 199 dollar HD-DVD player in the next few weeks.

[Danny Tse]

Besides, you'll soon be able to get into an HD-DVD player for under $200 (I'm guessing that by Christmas the HD-A2's will be $199). It'll take Blu-Ray a lot longer to reach the under $200 threshold.

Saw it with own eyes last nite at my local Walmart....the Toshiba HD-A2 is currently (as in NOW) selling at $199.99. And they have a crate of them.

I really have no interest in hi-def video, but if $200.00 can get me into the game, I'll be there.

[Ricardo]

Saw it with own eyes last nite at my local Walmart....the Toshiba HD-A2 is currently (as in NOW) selling at $199.99. And they have a crate of them.

I'll be right back......

[BIZILL]

Saw it with own eyes last nite at my local Walmart....the Toshiba HD-A2 is currently (as in NOW) selling at $199.99. And they have a crate of them.

yes. and the naysayers from back in the day never thought this day would come. also, blu-ray fanboys always claimed it would be 'content' that would win out for blu-ray. as in 'exclusive content'. well, that has now been a weapon for both sides.

[Danny Tse]

Check with your local Walmart for the price on the Toshiba HD-A2. I don't know if it's a chain-wide price or just a local price.

[millerman 3732]

Our walmart has had the A2 for $198 for about a month now.

[kingkip]

Anger leads to the dark side of the force young Jedi! Sony is not the dark side of the force! Apple is the dark side of the force! Use your powers wisely :)


Don't own any apple crap anyway. They just happen to be better at marketing than sony. Sony isn't the dark side, they just have a lot of shady practices and lately those practices have directly affected me. Sony is pissing me off lately.

[Lsi9]

Don't own any apple crap anyway. They just happen to be better at marketing than sony. Sony isn't the dark side, they just have a lot of shady practices and lately those practices have directly affected me. Sony is pissing me off lately.

Apple is not crap, never has been... Sony is crap actually

[Early B.]

I'll be right back......

Just wondering, Ric -did you run to Walmart and pick up an HD-A2?

[hockeyboy]

I am still remaining in a holding pattern. The new Samsung combi looks tempting.
Must...wait...till....machine has....more....powers

[Ricardo]

Just wondering, Ric -did you run to Walmart and pick up an HD-A2?

No; just kidding. I guess there's a reason they came out with the A3, and it's released Nov 1st, so I'll have mine next friday.

[millerman 3732]

No; just kidding. I guess there's a reason they came out with the A3, and it's released Nov 1st, so I'll have mine next friday.

Best buy has had the A3 out in store for a few weeks now, so whats the hold up?

[Silverti]

yes. and the naysayers from back in the day never thought this day would come. also, blu-ray fanboys always claimed it would be 'content' that would win out for blu-ray. as in 'exclusive content'. well, that has now been a weapon for both sides.

No... Blue Ray fan boys are laughing at anyone who buys the cheap unit that can’t even do 1080p. I don’t think Toshiba rolling out cheap units without some "standard" features is going to help anything. If anything it smacks of desperation. You get what you pay for.

[Silverti]

I am still remaining in a holding pattern. The new Samsung combi looks tempting.
Must...wait...till....machine has....more....powers

^^ That is whats going to win the war... Dual format drives :)

[Early B.]

No... Blue Ray fan boys are laughing at anyone who buys the cheap unit that can’t even do 1080p. I don’t think Toshiba rolling out cheap units without some "standard" features is going to help anything. If anything it smacks of desperation. You get what you pay for.


Nah. The vast majority of TVs out there can't do 1080p, so why pay more money for extra features you won't use?

[NeilGabriel]

I bought one of the first Toshiba HDMI upconverting DVD players and it was awful. Would stall out, remote wouldn't work. Looked it up and it seemed that many others had same issues. Swore I would never buy Toshiba again. From all the posts, it appears that many of you would testify for their HD machines, eh?

[Ricardo]

No... Blue Ray fan boys are laughing at anyone who buys the cheap unit that can’t even do 1080p. I don’t think Toshiba rolling out cheap units without some "standard" features is going to help anything. If anything it smacks of desperation. You get what you pay for.


Since when $299 is cheap? I see it the other way; all those boys that bought over $500 players or plan to buy $1,000 players will be laughed at sooner than later.

[polksda]

Harumph. I see that this place isn't immune to all the fanboy idiocy so prevalent elsewhere.

References to 'laughing at' others for what they spend on players is just childish. Prices of subsequent generations of consumer electronics are ALWAYS cheaper. Do you make fun of people who spent $500-1,000 on 1st-generation DVD players back in 1998? Of course not.

Sure, I paid $500 for my Toshiba HD-A1 back in April of 2006. ooOOooOOoo, what an idiot I am for spending so much. Yeah, right. Well, I've been enjoying the heck out of HD movies on disc for the last 18 months, rather than sitting on the slidelines snickering like some juvenile twat.

Both formats are capable. Both formats provide a phenomenal movie watching experience compared to DVD. Unless (and even if!) you have a full 1080p set, the "only 1080i" issue is a complete and utter red herring fomented by idiotic fanboyism.

[Ricardo]

You are quite right; it was a childish response to a childish comment. I felt touched because I just bought a cheap player.

I will only laugh at Silverti. :)

[Silverti]

Since when $299 is cheap? I see it the other way; all those boys that bought over $500 players or plan to buy $1,000 players will be laughed at sooner than later.

No they wont. I paid $500 for my PS3 and $400 for My Toshiba A30 and I'll be able to use them for years to come. But then again, to me $900 is not a lot of money.

[Silverti]

In general to a few posters who have responded to me, this is my rack. Don’t pretend that I don’t have a lot of experience between the 2 already since I’m up to about 25 media between both formats.

Sony PS3
Toshiba A30

http://www.silverti.com/ht/September%2017,%202007/DSC00504a.JPG

[Silverti]

You are quite right; it was a childish response to a logical comment. I felt touched because I just bought a cheap player.

I will only laugh at Silverti. :)

No no, I have altered your comment above. You dropped a personally attacked me based of a logical post. Don’t play it off. You have taken your first step to fanboyism

[Early B.]

But then again, to me $900 is not a lot of money.

Wow. I'd love to have your bank account.;)

[Ricardo]

No no, I have altered your comment above. You dropped a personally attacked me based of a logical post. Don’t play it off. You have taken your first step to fanboyism

Yes, you were logical, I was childish. Whatever.

[Sherardp]

NIce rack Silverti, I agree with most. Both is the way to go and now is the time to do it. Rather you go with gen 1, 2, or 3, now is a perfect time to get in. I've been in since Gen 1 and just graded my A1 to the XA2 which is a superb player. My Sony BDP S1 has given me zero hiccups since I purchased it. You can pick up the Toshiba and the Sony BDPS300 for excellent prices. Just go both and be done. After that go big on screen, 100 or bigger with front projection. Screens can be had for around 500 with 1080p Projectors in the 2300 range, very good prices, dark curtains for the ambient light. Now thats HT at its prime baby, yeah.

[jakelm]

Going back the 1080i comment. The players that deliver 1080i to a 1080p tv are no slouch. The tv probably has a better deinterlacing chip in it anyway. Converting 1080i to 1080p, is no loss in PQ. HIdef over air delivers some of the best PQ, and it only delivers 720p or 1080i.