Your favorite small/bookshelf size speaker for rock?

[Poee7R]

I'm feeling the need to try some new speakers. Hoping to get some opinions on bookshelf speakers that sound good with rock. I listen to alot of different music, but for the most part it falls back to rock. From Seger to Alice to Gwar back to the beatles, Floyd etc etc.

So im gonna focus on speakers that excel in rock performance, if there is such a thing. Not to sure about budget, but will definately be looking for used. Will be powered by a hybrid intergrated. In my office elevated to about ear level, sitting. Good ic's and speaker cable's. Working on a better source also, but speaker's first.

Ive listened/owned B&W 603/600i, Polk RTi 4/6, Paradigm Mini-mon's and various older "70's" type's. And so far for rock i keep leaning towards the Paradigm's. Very potent little bookshelf speaker.

I see alot of people refer to CV and the like for rock, but there has got to be better so spill it.


Dave

[dkg999]

I had Kiss cranked up on my Paradigm Reference 20v3's the other morning and it sounded real good!

[lightman1]

A little large for bookies, but my moni 5's do the trick for me. 100wpc carver pushing them.

[markmarc]

Mini Monitors are a personal favorite. The best I've heard include the Era D5's, LSi7's, and the Totem Mites. I also in a vote for the P-dimes Ref Studio 20's.

[Zero]

As it stands, I've been through a few dozen high performance monitors... and when it comes to good ole rock and roll, the Audio Note AX-TWO takes the cake...

They are everything you are looking for:

- Affordable
- A linear sound that really compliments rock and roll
- Efficient (can work exceptionally well on hybrids and tube components)
- Can deliver strong levels of clean output for a speaker its size/price.

For $480/pair, you'll be well on your way to rockin' and rollin'. With all respect, Paradigm just don't have the tone...

http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/speakers/ax-2_01.shtml

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Ive been very impressed with my Taylos for rock....

And they can pull off everything else...

But I'm pretty much 70% rock in my listening...

I listen to Breaking Benjamin, Korn, Disturbed, whole nin yards

[Dennis Gardner]

Your bookshelf Taylos? You must have huge books...........;)

[zombie boy 2000]

GWAR is reference. Diana Krall is not. Chewy Gobstopers rule. You drool.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

I dont have Bookshelf Taylos

But they definitely have bookshelf Taylos available

And those Excel midbasses have bass response like you won't believe - so they will definitely fill in those lower octaves....

[dorokusai]

I LOVE bookshelf loudspeakers. You might entertain NHT for a modestly priced, solid low end bookend. The SB series is very nice.

[cmy330go]

I'd recommend giving the Energy RC-10's a listen. AMAZING speaker for both size and price.

[engtaz]

Monitor 5's

engtaz

[shack]

I LOVE bookshelf loudspeakers. You might entertain NHT for a modestly priced, solid low end bookend. The SB series is very nice.


I concur. Even though it isn't made anymore the NHT SB3 was a very nice bookshelf speaker. You could probably find it used or see whatever NHT makes now that took it's place.

[Yashu]

For rock you want something that does not have hyper extended detail, and you don't want something so refined that you are going to hear the ineptitude of garage rock recording engineers.

I would say.... Try some JBLs, now they make a great rock speaker. They used to have an L series 3-way bookshelf speaker that was supposed to be pretty good. I would also suggest a set of PSB Stratus Minis, these would have to be used as well, but I hear they are a wonderful rock speaker.

[TroyD]

JBL's?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AA

And you think Polk's are bright? The Northridge (or whatever series it was) was listenable but with the exception of some vintage JBL, it's standard Best Buy dreck.

New or used??

Used, I'd look at something like a Boston Acoustics A70. If you liked the B&W 600 series, consider going a little farther up the B&W food chain.

BDT

[halo]

Vintage AR's. AR 2-ax (4-xa in a pinch).

[Poee7R]

Lots of replies, awesome. I've been thinking about the older monitor series, the 5/7's. But with as many Polk's as i have and have owned im thinking about something a bit different. The Audio Note's are interesting, im just wondering how they will stand up to the abuse, one of the great things about rock is it sounds best cranked up. Not to be offensive, but i cant recall a JBL for home audio that ive actually liked.

Now for the NHT's, ive been eyeballing the SB3's since they were in production, lots of great review's, so maybe it is time to secure a pair. The Taylo's im sure are a great speaker, but maybe a bit too pricey and pretty for me. The Energy's have always been an interest also, with the way Canada supports audio I would definately give them a try. The PSB's also, i have listened to a set of the PSB gold tower's, and while i did like them they were huge, maybe i will look and see which smaller offerings are around.

I do like the B&W's i have, but not so much for rock. Female voices and smoother jazz/blues tunes sound great on them. But give em some recorded distortion and they seem to fall apart a bit. Now onto the older AR's, the thing that bothers me about them is availability, tweeters take the brunt of rock, and finding a replacement would be crazy, not to mention the surrounds on the woofer's, if i can find a pair in the right condition then i may grab em up.

Also please no one take offense to my musings here, i do appreciate all the suggestions.


Dave

[Zero]

Poee - The Ax-Two can take some abuse. That said, there is only so much clean output one can reasonably expect to drudge out from a small set of drivers in a small box. Today, most affordable compact monitors that dot the market err more to the side of a polite and controlled presentation. A rock and roll speaker will more times than not; carry along with it a distinct color. The trick to attaining ideal performance is the use of a driver with a wide surface area that can really move some air - which is what its all about when it comes to reproducing the electric guitar, kick drums, et all.

The Audio Note Ax-Two is a fantastic all around speaker that will keep its composure at volumes that give other compact monitors a bit of a hard time. Yet when you get down to it; the words "cranked up" are attached with individual definition. I have no idea what yours are.

That said, as you begin to expand the wallet a bit.. other options that pop into mind is the Odyssey Audio Epiphany II ( my thoughts can be found here; http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2007-11.pdf )

And lastly, assuming you have a good tube piece laying around... the Klipsch Heresy II's is another viable option.

[dkg999]

I still think the Polk Monitor 10 is one of the best "crank-it-up" rock&roll speakers, but you better have a big bookshelf :D

Some of the Paradigm Monitor series I have heard also do loud rock&roll pretty well. If you really want to crank it up consistently and crank it up to you means concert levels, then I would seriously consider professional series speakers that are built to take the abuse.

[mhardy6647]

I like my Monitor 7As, and I also like my ads L-710s.

[Yashu]

TroyD, not all JBLs have horns and bright tweeters. There is one older model that was probably one of the best "sleeper" buys in a long time, a 3-way from the L series, that is all I can remember... it was before the age of the "supertweeter". It was just an all-round good rock speaker.

I also have a set of JBL control 1s, 2500s, and PROIIIs (with upgraded woofers, for control monitoring), aside from the PROIIIs, they all have a sweeter top end than my PSBs, and the PSBs were considered "dark", so that goes to show you that you can't judge a book by it's cover. As far as BB dreck, if I am not mistaken, Polk LSi is sold at Fry's, Polk is also sold at Circuit City, and Martin Logan is sold at BB, and I wouldn't call Electrostats "dreck" by any means.

Poee7r,

There is a good chance that most of the rock music you plan to listen to was mastered on JBLs, so don't go bashing them so quickly... they are in many studios still, and used to be in EVERY studio, that is why I picked them...

Boston Acoustics does make a good bookie that is sold at some circuit cities, so it may not be hard to find... it comes in 4", 5 1/4", and 6" woofer sizes for the bookshelf models.

There is no rule that says good speakers have to cost a fortune, and a lot of rock music just doesn't need a super refined speaker. JBL, or BA may not be the best in the world, but it doesn't mean they can't rock out. (interestingly, this goes back to the old argument between the east coast and west coast sounds... You know, Stereophile did a recent review of the vintage Smaller Advents... but they reviewed them as if they were a NEW speaker... so compared them to modern offerings. They held up well...) Enough of that, it's no big deal if you don't like JBLs. Many speakers have a "house" sound that some people just don't like. JBL, they make speakers of all kinds... and they really did make some geat ones in the past, though not impressed by their modern consumer models (pro is another story, they have a great set of powered nearfield monitors, as does NHT, but the Control 1s are probably the best passive minis you could ever get for under 100 bucks, but make sure you get the original 1s and not the brighter 1xtremes, great little nearfield monitors, just don't expect a lot of bass. Ebay sometimes comes up with some Control 1pluses that come with a better woofer, but now I am just rambling about pro stuff.)

I am not sure what sort of rock you are into more (you named quite a range), but it matters, maybe you want a vintage sound, there is always vintage polk, maybe you want the west coast sound, maybe you like east coast cool, maybe you are a lofi indie fan... oddly, if it is the latter, look for a good canadian speaker, they have the best bang for the buck these days. Modern indie rock needs a better speaker than the rock of the old days... just my experience, though. I would just get some PSBs, Paradigms, or Energys, they have everything needed to rock out, and are refined enough, incase you decide to play something a little more mellow, and depending on what you get, you will have saved some money to buy some music.

[Poee7R]

Heh i think i may of stepped on some toes, for that i apologize, not my intent. The Audio Notes may be an awesome speaker for my needs but they "look" to be a bit more refined than i expected, and not being familiar with their sound its my first instinct to go by the esthetics. Perhaps bad judgement, but i will look into them further if you believe them to be more hardy.

As far as the JBL's, well im thirty years old and i used to sell audio/video equipment when i was in my earlier twenties. One of the lines we carried were JBL, the northridge series etc. I could just never warm up to the sound, always sounded thick if you would, kind of the old blanket over em statement. I didnt mean to bash, only to convey my dislike of the ones i was familiar with. And yes I do know they are used in professional applications all over the world, but I would guess that is because they are durable and dependable and not so much for their sound. But this is just a guess.

I do have a background in live sound and electronic manipulation (homebrew DJ) so i can absolutely say i do not want a professional/commercial sounding speaker. Just something that sounds good, that I am confident will handle the harder passes in music that somehow use mind control over me, to make me edge that volume up just that little bit more. I want to make sure I dont have to worry that a drum solo is going to destroy a driver cause i was into the music. No guarantee's, i know that. Just trying to cover it as much as possible.


Dave

[Zero]

Poee,

My toes feel just fine. As an aside, you may be the only person I have come across to used Ax-Two and refined - in the same sentence! :D

[schwarcw]

Forget the book shelves and replace the entire bookcase with some Altec A-7's.:eek: You'll have the entire neighborhood rocking.

[sucks2beme]

The old JBL L100's were known to be the rock speaker. By no means
accurate. As George Grand described it "They all just sound like guitars".
Yet during the 70's that was the sound everyone was looking for.
The L100 were called bookshelf speakers, but were way too big by today's
standards. Most of the modern JBLs I've heard don't do anything well.

I think a better modern speaker like the Paradigms still does rock well, but does
a reasonable job with all music. PSB comes to mind, too. I don't know
if any current lines of Boston Accoustics sound good or not.
Either way, could you spec out your amp to us, so that we could maybe
know how efficient the speakers need to be? And don't forget vintage Polk.
There could be some good finds there too. Check the flea market here at
club Polk.

[mhardy6647]

I think a couple of Altec A-5 or A-7s in lieu of bookshelves would indeed rawk just fine.
You will need a subwoofer though, for best results.

[Music Joe]

You mentioned NHT which is having some kind of shake-up and Audio Advisor has some pretty good deals on some odd color (I like the color in the pictures)

NHT sale (http://www.audioadvisor.com/searchprods.asp) look at the 2 and 3 way center channels (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHT3C&variation=SPE)
10" powered sub (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHT10&variation=SPE) andclassic model 2 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHT2&variation=SSPE)

I don't know if they rawk :eek: but the prices are tempting.

[Yashu]

I probably enjoy my PSBs the most with electronic music, moreso than any of my others, including JBLs... I make music, and yes I use JBLs for control monitoring, and I do understand that they CAN be harsh, depends on what model. Anyway, enough of JBL, I am going to say go for the PSBs... Those speakers can handle just about anything... even the Alphas. I don't know if you know who Autechre is, they are an IDM band, but I have never heard them sound better and more textured than on PSBs. I use their albums as part of my test collection. They have the ability to play very loud, and have quite the bass output for such a small size... but they don't break up, it's amazing actually. I have tried many others, including polks, and although you said rock music, your comment about electronic music made the PSBs stand out in my mind. Their tweeters are not too bright either, so very little listener fatigue. Paul Barton really did a good job making a neutral speaker that can deliver when they need to. Hell, I have accidently sent all kinds of trash signals to mine (long story... when you swap enough cables and play with enough test tones, you eventually forget that you had the volume turned all the way up to test channel crosstalk, for example), and the only thing that has ever come close to dying on me was my amp.

The Alpha B makes a good value rock speaker... but I really would get the Stratus Minis if I was buying a set today. Ever since they replaced the stratus line with the two new ones, you are finding such good deals all over audiogon and ebay for Stratus. I would avoid the Image line, only because there isn't much of an improvement over Alpha as far as bookshelves go.

[reeltrouble1]

Polk speaker RT55i, awesome rock speaker, you can thank me later.

RT1

[strider]

Polk speaker RT55i, awesome rock speaker, you can thank me later.

RT1

Agreed, I've really been enjoying mine paired with a sub here lately.

[MKZ]

NHT SB3, Paradigm Reference 20v3, LSi7, LSi9 which is the best with Adcom 5500? confused :confused:

[ND13]

Monitor 5s, Mon 7As and let's not forget the Smaller Advents.

[sucks2beme]

You've got enough juice to run any of them with authority!
Time to go listen to a couple. LSI9 if you've got the budget is good
overall. NO ONE ever buys them and says, "these suck".
The Paradigms are also nice. Comes down to personal taste and budget.
Totem Rainmakers are also good in comparision to the LSI9.

[jakelm]

Monitor 5s, Mon 7As and let's not forget the Smaller Advents.


Actually, if you talking small, my 4's do an awsome job. But I do have my 7's on duty, always and forever.

[PADZZ]

RT55i, or for even smaller, rt25i.

[Dave38]

Polk Monitor 5 series 2 or Polk RT-7's.

[AndyGwis]

The Alpha B makes a good value rock speaker

I had a pair of these for a bit. They were a little beat up, but got them with stands for like $50, so great speaker for that price!

I'd say Lsi7s are the best for the price. . . or at least hope so as I just purchased a pair recently but won't have them for a bit.

[sporty dave]

My old school R & R rig from the 70's was: 4 Advents, stacked & wired in parallel , hooked to a an SAE pre amp / tuner, connected to a really old macintosh tube amp
(a stated 50 w per channel ) That was THE party set up for playing those old vinyl records and cassette tapes at the party house. Currently I like the Monitor 10 s too

[jakelm]

Cerwin Vega...





......oh you said smalll...sorry

[shack]

Cerwin Vega...





......oh you said smalll...sorry


"that sound good" was also a criteria.

[jakelm]

"that sound good" was also a criteria.

True.. My Bose...I mean my bad...

[dipiazza]

I LOVE bookshelf loudspeakers. You might entertain NHT for a modestly priced, solid low end bookend. The SB series is very nice.


My Brother has the NHT SB3 bookshelves, running off the outlaw 2ch reciever. He loves em and listens to alot of rock. I havent had much time with them but i liked em from what ive heard.

[shack]

My Brother has the NHT SB3 bookshelves, running off the outlaw 2ch reciever. He loves em and listens to alot of rock. I havent had much time with them but i liked em from what ive heard.

That's a setup I would like to hear.

[F1nut]

NHT SB3 gets my vote. Upgrade the caps and they get even better. Feed them with tube gear and enjoy!

[redbullet]

I'm feeling the need to try some new speakers. Hoping to get some opinions on bookshelf speakers that sound good with rock. I listen to alot of different music, but for the most part it falls back to rock. From Seger to Alice to Gwar back to the beatles, Floyd etc etc.

So im gonna focus on speakers that excel in rock performance, if there is such a thing. Not to sure about budget, but will definately be looking for used. Will be powered by a hybrid intergrated. In my office elevated to about ear level, sitting. Good ic's and speaker cable's. Working on a better source also, but speaker's first.

Ive listened/owned B&W 603/600i, Polk RTi 4/6, Paradigm Mini-mon's and various older "70's" type's. And so far for rock i keep leaning towards the Paradigm's. Very potent little bookshelf speaker.

I see alot of people refer to CV and the like for rock, but there has got to be better so spill it.


Dave

Reference 3a MM De Capo nothing will come close , trust me I been through countless monitors

[F1nut]

Reference 3a MM De Capo nothing will come close , trust me I been through countless monitor

How about some Revel Gems?



Anyway, just looking at paper.....

NHT SB3:

Used price - $300.00, new was $600.00.
Bottom end - 38Hz
Efficiency - 86dB
Design - Acoustic Suspension

Reference 3a MM De Capo:

Used price - $1200.00, new is $2500.00.
Bottom end - 42Hz
Efficiency - 92dB
Design - Ported


Like I said, just paper, draw your own conclusions.

[Yashu]

That NHT speaker is probably one of the only ones that I would consider for rocking out. I have heard some of their other, newer, models... very close to studio monitors, not "fun" to listen to.

The SB3 has been one of those speakers that's name gets kicked around a lot in this kind of thread. Good speaker, never heard it with rock, but it can't be too bad. Avoid the new Classic series though.

[brijenjas]

Avoid the new Classic series though.

Why do you say this, is there a problem with the NHT classic series?

[dant]

Another vote for the RT7's. I auditioned a pair back in 1997. I wish I had bought them.

[Zero]

The NHT SB-3 is a great little monitor. However, it is far from an ideal rock and roll speaker. That just ain't its gig.

[shack]

is there a problem with the NHT classic series?

Not in my opinion. I've heard the Classic Zero and the Classic Two and I think they are very nice small bookshelves.

[MKZ]

You guys make me tempting to get the NHT. Is SB3 becomes Classic Two or Classic Three? SB3 is better than both?

[marker]

You guys make me tempting to get the NHT. Is SB3 becomes Classic Two or Classic Three? SB3 is better than both?

Actually, the Two is more of the SB-3s direct descendant than the Three is. Here is what NHT's chief engineer had to say about the difference between the Classics and Super Audios:

Warning, shameless plug ahead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of the woofers in the Classic series that are used in 3-ways have aluminum cones. Both of the woofers used in 2-ways have PP cones. All of the drivers in the line are manufactured in China. We did a ton of development work using FEA for the magnetics and mechanical issues. We ended up using virtually zero off the shelf components in all of the drivers. All of the drivers have shorting rings to reduce flux modulation, even the Absolute Zero. All of the woofers (except the 10" in the Four) have frames made of BMC, the same material used in the XdS baffle. The frames are about 4 times as stiff as the frames in the previous line (Super Audio). The baffles for all of the speakers are about twice as thick as the SA cabinets had. This allows us to use much larger radii on them to smooth out the off axis response and reduces the level of baffle acoustic radiation due to the increase in stiffness. There is a lot of cool stuff in this product.
__________________
Jack Hidley
Director of Engineering NHT

The Twos have pretty much the same tweeter as the SB-3s (whereas the Threes are three ways and have the dome array). It is IMO "warmer" sounding than the Threes are, but yet still noticeably more detailed than the SB-3s are (they could sound a little "tubby" IMO).

The SB-3s will have a little lower bass extension, but in pretty much every other parameter and category, the Two is superior. It's in a whole other league entirely in imaging, soundstaging, and resolution. The drivers, and especially the cabinetry have been significantly upgraded.

Edit - click here for a look "inside" of the Twos:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/nht-classic-2/page-2

As previously mentioned, the Classic Series "Special Dark" finish is being blown out right now at half price, and you can get Twos for like $300 per pair new from fully authorized dealers.

If you really want a NHT bookshelf for rock music though, get the just discontinued Evolution M6, which is currently being blown out for half price. You can now get them new from authorized dealers for like $300 each. It is Stereophile Class A rated FWIW, and is fantastic for rock music. It will play extremely loud with no congestion whatsoever and images like the devil himself. Plus with it's Virtual Focused Image Geometry and boundary compensation adjustment feature, it will play well in literally any room and/or placement situation (for smaller rooms, get the M5). However it was designed for, and needs to be driven in conjunction with a sub or subs.

[F1nut]

From looking at the crossovers in the Classic Two, I'd have to say they are a major upgrade from the SB3. However, I found that a simple cap upgrade in the SB3 made the speaker much better than stock.

[marker]

From looking at the crossovers in the Classic Two, I'd have to say they are a major upgrade from the SB3. However, I found that a simple cap upgrade in the SB3 made the speaker much better than stock.


I still have my pair. For no more money than they'd bring in a sell, I just can't bear to part with them. ;)

Interestingly enough, according to HTM's measurements, the SB-3s actually had deeper bass extension than their three way tower counterparts, the ST-4s did, despite the fact that the St-4s also had an 8" woofer (-3 Db at 54 Hz vs -3 db at 59 Hz): :eek:

http://nhthifi.com/2006/press/reviews/SA_Review_HTMagazine.pdf

[Yashu]

is there a problem with the NHT classic series?

Bright. I suppose it's the latest trend... bright is another (review)man's "air and detail". Reviewers like bright speakers, so speaker makers make them brighter, and so on... SACD only made the competition for the brightest speaker EVER more HOT... err... bright.

They moved the tweeter to the traditional top position and changed the shape of the baffle to make the speaker look like ass, but to also give it a flatter response and make it sound more like a studio monitor (they make studio nearfield monitors).

It has been proven that tweeter off axis performance going up and down is waaay different than going side to side. I would probably prefer the tweeter to be on the bottom, but you can't exactly turn the new ones upside down... they probably wouldn't work right that way anyhow.

The SB-3s looked cool too... unorthodox and that woofer has "bass" written all over it.

I know the classic zeros basically NEED a sub, but the 2s probably would do alright on their own. I am warming up to the idea of LSi 9s, if you have the power to drive them, since it sounds like you want to spend about a grand.

[Music Joe]

A bit of extra bright may balance a slightly dark GFA-5500.

[F1nut]

Just throwing some stuff out......

I upgraded my SB3's with Solen caps as using Sonicap's would have cost more than I paid for them. Lately, I've been thinking about putting something different in the high frequency circuit as Solen caps aren't noted for having the best sound up there. Maybe I'll try the Clarity caps someone here was raving about. That metal dome tweeter can get a bit bright at times and I think a better cap would help out.

Anyway, I listen to mostly rock and blues on mine, which are in my office powered with tube gear. I think they do rock very well, but I don't crank the volume to maximum as they are only a couple of feet from my ears. I also think they wouldn't be the best choice for a large room. One has to be careful on the amp used as one SS amp I had would allow the woofers to bottom out. I heard the same issue at a dealer once. He seemed kinda surprised when it happened. I quess he never turned up the volume much in that SS set up. Anyway, the tube amp driving them right now has never bottomed out the woofers. Tubes rule!

Mark, thanks for the link and I know what you mean. Just a good little speaker that puts out way more bass than it should. I've thought about grabbing a second pair, just because. It's a shame they stopped making them.

[MKZ]

Actually, the Two is more of the SB-3s direct descendant than the Three is. Here is what NHT's chief engineer had to say about the difference between the Classics and Super Audios:


__________________
Jack Hidley
Director of Engineering NHT

The Twos have pretty much the same tweeter as the SB-3s (whereas the Threes are three ways and have the dome array). It is IMO "warmer" sounding than the Threes are, but yet still noticeably more detailed than the SB-3s are (they could sound a little "tubby" IMO).

The SB-3s will have a little lower bass extension, but in pretty much every other parameter and category, the Two is superior. It's in a whole other league entirely in imaging, soundstaging, and resolution. The drivers, and especially the cabinetry have been significantly upgraded.

Edit - click here for a look "inside" of the Twos:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/nht-classic-2/page-2

As previously mentioned, the Classic Series "Special Dark" finish is being blown out right now at half price, and you can get Twos for like $300 per pair new from fully authorized dealers.

If you really want a NHT bookshelf for rock music though, get the just discontinued Evolution M6, which is currently being blown out for half price. You can now get them new from authorized dealers for like $300 each. It is Stereophile Class A rated FWIW, and is fantastic for rock music. It will play extremely loud with no congestion whatsoever and images like the devil himself. Plus with it's Virtual Focused Image Geometry and boundary compensation adjustment feature, it will play well in literally any room and/or placement situation (for smaller rooms, get the M5). However it was designed for, and needs to be driven in conjunction with a sub or subs.

okay, I guess the sales are over by now. I missed the opportunity to grab those classic series. I saw M5 and M6 still available on Audiogon. Actually I prefer smaller speaker since I am planning to place on actual bookshelf not on stands. I will keep on searching for few more days. If I won't find any, I might try M5 or LSi9. Is that make sense or just giving up the chances? Thanks for helpful info.

[steveinaz]

If I ever went back to a bookshelf--it would be the Paradigm Reference Studio 40.

[tonyb]

Studio 40 is kinda big for a bookshelf,no?

No mention of Pearsall's AAD's? Would like to get an ear on those puppy's.
Though also big for a bookshelf.The Epos is a great all around bookie at a price anyone can live with.

[AndyGwis]

The Paradigm Studio 20 v3/4s were on my short list of bookshelf speakers, but never could close the deal on them for a good price. I've seen them for $350 on CL and such from time to time.

Totem Rainmakers, Polk Lsi7s, ACI Sapphire III's, Thiel SCS, NHT SB3, Usher S-520, Totem Model One, were all also on my list.

[steveinaz]

Studio 40 is kinda big for a bookshelf,no?

No mention of Pearsall's AAD's? Would like to get an ear on those puppy's.
Though also big for a bookshelf.The Epos is a great all around bookie at a price anyone can live with.

They're on the large side, but still require stands.

[shack]

They're on the large side, but still require stands.

Yes, they are very much like the RT55is which are very large but are considered bookshelf speakers and require stands.

[marker]

Actually I prefer smaller speaker since I am planning to place on actual bookshelf not on stands.

Then you should definitely get M5s placed vertically. They have a boundary compensation adjustment that curbs their output below 500 Hz to compensate for the natural lower frequency boost you will get from the speakers being on/in shelves/cases and/or close to the front wall behind it.

It's cabinet also has a flat front baffle with "virtual focused image geometry" which will also aid with shelf/case placement and/or reflective and/or narrow rooms.

You can find out more about all of that here:

http://nhthifi.com/2006/manuals/current/EvolutionUserGuide.pdf

particularly in sections 11.2 and 11.3

Edit - plus, they're sealed, which never hurts for shelf/case placement either.

The M5 is the best measuring speaker in terms of the most accuracy that I have ever seen thus far in HTM:

http://nhthifi.com/2006/press/reviews/evolution_ht.pdf

[marker]

Just throwing some stuff out......

I upgraded my SB3's with Solen caps as using Sonicap's would have cost more than I paid for them. Lately, I've been thinking about putting something different in the high frequency circuit as Solen caps aren't noted for having the best sound up there. Maybe I'll try the Clarity caps someone here was raving about. That metal dome tweeter can get a bit bright at times and I think a better cap would help out.

Anyway, I listen to mostly rock and blues on mine, which are in my office powered with tube gear. I think they do rock very well, but I don't crank the volume to maximum as they are only a couple of feet from my ears. I also think they wouldn't be the best choice for a large room. One has to be careful on the amp used as one SS amp I had would allow the woofers to bottom out. I heard the same issue at a dealer once. He seemed kinda surprised when it happened. I quess he never turned up the volume much in that SS set up. Anyway, the tube amp driving them right now has never bottomed out the woofers. Tubes rule!

Mark, thanks for the link and I know what you mean. Just a good little speaker that puts out way more bass than it should. I've thought about grabbing a second pair, just because. It's a shame they stopped making them.

That's true Jesse, for music only, particularly in a small room, you really don't need a sub with them. It's an option rather than a necessity. I also happen to think they are a good rock speaker as well. ;)

Maybe one of these days I can talk you into letting me send you my pair to work your magic on them too that you did (and are still going to) on yours? :D

[MKZ]

Then you should definitely get M5s placed vertically. They have a boundary compensation adjustment that curbs their output below 500 Hz to compensate for the natural lower frequency boost you will get from the speakers being on/in shelves/cases and/or close to the front wall behind it.

It's cabinet also has a flat front baffle with "virtual focused image geometry" which will also aid with shelf/case placement and/or reflective and/or narrow rooms.

You can find out more about all of that here:

http://nhthifi.com/2006/manuals/current/EvolutionUserGuide.pdf

particularly in sections 11.2 and 11.3

Edit - plus, they're sealed, which never hurts for shelf/case placement either.

The M5 is the best measuring speaker in terms of the most accuracy that I have ever seen thus far in HTM:

http://nhthifi.com/2006/press/reviews/evolution_ht.pdf

what would you say comparing your M5 and SB3? I found here that classic two comparable to M5.
Please see the link.
http://www.homeaudionews.com/2005/11/06/nht-classic-absolute-zero-and-two-review/
I also like to apply the F1nut idea that I can replace with Clarity caps on classic two later on. I'm afraid it might be like Honda Civic with Huge muffler :D

[marker]

what would you say comparing your M5 and SB3? I found here that classic two comparable to M5.
Please see the link.
http://www.homeaudionews.com/2005/11/06/nht-classic-absolute-zero-and-two-review/
I also like to apply the F1nut idea that I can replace with Clarity caps on classic two later on. I'm afraid it might be like Honda Civic with Huge muffler :D

FWIW, keep in mind, those comments were made by a NHT dealer with the obvious agenda of a "trade in" program. ;)

My completely unbiased, totally neutral take on comparing them to each other is that M5 tops the Two in pretty much every parameter except for soundstaging and bass extension. A wider soundstage is the one thing I would actually give the edge to the Twos on. They also might have slightly deeper bass extension, but not much, if any, and really, either needs to be used with a sub or subs, even just for music IMO.

The Two can also image about as good as the M5 if the pair is set up perfectly (with slight toe-in) in an optimal well damped room for them, while the M5s are virtually foolproof to set up for great imaging any literally any room.

In terms of dynamics, it's no contest, the M5 absolutely crushes the Twos, which should particularly catch your attention since this is extremely important for rock music (and HT). If you wanna crank AC/DC, Aerosmith, Kiss, Ozzy, Van Halen, etc. loud enough to make your ears threaten to bleed, no problem at all with the M5s. They won't sweat it whatsoever, while the Twos might compress somewhat at higher levels by comparison.

And all of that is not even taking into account the more flexible room condition tuning and placement options of the M5s. For instance, on shelves, the M5 really is a much better choice because of it's boundary control. The M5s will sound great in any room or set up, while the Twos need to be in a more well damped, unreflective room.

They are both easy on the ears to listen to and a little "warmer" sounding than some of their other counterparts in their respective model product lines. For example, for some reason, the general consensus is that the M6s are a little brighter than the M5s, and the Threes/AZs are a little brighter than the Twos (which may be either good or bad, depending on your perspective). But they are both much more resolving than the SB-3s though, yet you can literally listen to either one all day long without ever getting any any "listener's fatigue".

Some intangibles are that the Two just flat out looks better IMO if aesthetics matter any, but they can be tricky to find a stand for (if you need some later) because of their rails on the bottom; whereas the M5s have an aesthetically matching pedestal stand it bolts to, the P5, which looks and functions superbly. Finally, if it matters any, the Two really doesn't have a perfectly matching CC speaker option (unless that is, you have a third stand mounted Two as the CC speaker), and there is simply not a great on-wall mountable surround option for it, while the M5 has the L5, a perfectly matching wall mountable speaker that can be used as surrounds. And of course, another horizontally mounted M5 as a CC speaker is as good a match as you can get for vertical M5 mains.:D

FWIW, in my office rig, I had SB-3s which were replaced by Threes, which were in turn replaced by M5s. The room is small, about 10' x 10' x 9' with glass on both sides (all glass on one side), and the placement required them being on/in bookshelves/cases right up against the front wall behind them, and the M5s sounded much better than either the Threes or SB-3s in this particular room and placement situation thanks to their more focused imaging and boundary control. As always, YMMV.

[F1nut]

That's true Jesse, for music only, particularly in a small room, you really don't need a sub with them. It's an option rather than a necessity. I also happen to think they are a good rock speaker as well. ;)

Maybe one of these days I can talk you into letting me send you my pair to work your magic on them too that you did (and are still going to) on yours? :D


We can talk.






BTW, someone mentioned the AAD 2001 monitors and having heard them, I'd say they are quite worthy of consideration.

[snow]

TroyD, not all JBLs have horns and bright tweeters. There is one older model that was probably one of the best "sleeper" buys in a long time, a 3-way from the L series, that is all I can remember... it was before the age of the "supertweeter". It was just an all-round good rock speaker.

I also have a set of JBL control 1s, 2500s, and PROIIIs (with upgraded woofers, for control monitoring), aside from the PROIIIs, they all have a sweeter top end than my PSBs, and the PSBs were considered "dark", so that goes to show you that you can't judge a book by it's cover. As far as BB dreck, if I am not mistaken, Polk LSi is sold at Fry's, Polk is also sold at Circuit City, and Martin Logan is sold at BB, and I wouldn't call Electrostats "dreck" by any means.

Poee7r,

There is a good chance that most of the rock music you plan to listen to was mastered on JBLs, so don't go bashing them so quickly... they are in many studios still, and used to be in EVERY studio, that is why I picked them...

Boston Acoustics does make a good bookie that is sold at some circuit cities, so it may not be hard to find... it comes in 4", 5 1/4", and 6" woofer sizes for the bookshelf models.

There is no rule that says good speakers have to cost a fortune, and a lot of rock music just doesn't need a super refined speaker. JBL, or BA may not be the best in the world, but it doesn't mean they can't rock out. (interestingly, this goes back to the old argument between the east coast and west coast sounds... You know, Stereophile did a recent review of the vintage Smaller Advents... but they reviewed them as if they were a NEW speaker... so compared them to modern offerings. They held up well...) Enough of that, it's no big deal if you don't like JBLs. Many speakers have a "house" sound that some people just don't like. JBL, they make speakers of all kinds... and they really did make some geat ones in the past, though not impressed by their modern consumer models (pro is another story, they have a great set of powered nearfield monitors, as does NHT Here is a pic of my favorite JBL bookshelf. and a couple of pics of some very pretty corner horns.


REGARDS SNOW

[mhardy6647]

sturdy bookshelves required...

[MKZ]

FWIW, keep in mind, those comments were made by a NHT dealer with the obvious agenda of a "trade in" program. ;)

My completely unbiased, totally neutral take on comparing them to each other is that M5 tops the Two in pretty much every parameter except for soundstaging and bass extension. A wider soundstage is the one thing I would actually give the edge to the Twos on. They also might have slightly deeper bass extension, but not much, if any, and really, either needs to be used with a sub or subs, even just for music IMO.

The Two can also image about as good as the M5 if the pair is set up perfectly (with slight toe-in) in an optimal well damped room for them, while the M5s are virtually foolproof to set up for great imaging any literally any room.

In terms of dynamics, it's no contest, the M5 absolutely crushes the Twos, which should particularly catch your attention since this is extremely important for rock music (and HT). If you wanna crank AC/DC, Aerosmith, Kiss, Ozzy, Van Halen, etc. loud enough to make your ears threaten to bleed, no problem at all with the M5s. They won't sweat it whatsoever, while the Twos might compress somewhat at higher levels by comparison.

And all of that is not even taking into account the more flexible room condition tuning and placement options of the M5s. For instance, on shelves, the M5 really is a much better choice because of it's boundary control. The M5s will sound great in any room or set up, while the Twos need to be in a more well damped, unreflective room.

They are both easy on the ears to listen to and a little "warmer" sounding than some of their other counterparts in their respective model product lines. For example, for some reason, the general consensus is that the M6s are a little brighter than the M5s, and the Threes/AZs are a little brighter than the Twos (which may be either good or bad, depending on your perspective). But they are both much more resolving than the SB-3s though, yet you can literally listen to either one all day long without ever getting any any "listener's fatigue".

Some intangibles are that the Two just flat out looks better IMO if aesthetics matter any, but they can be tricky to find a stand for (if you need some later) because of their rails on the bottom; whereas the M5s have an aesthetically matching pedestal stand it bolts to, the P5, which looks and functions superbly. Finally, if it matters any, the Two really doesn't have a perfectly matching CC speaker option (unless that is, you have a third stand mounted Two as the CC speaker), and there is simply not a great on-wall mountable surround option for it, while the M5 has the L5, a perfectly matching wall mountable speaker that can be used as surrounds. And of course, another horizontally mounted M5 as a CC speaker is as good a match as you can get for vertical M5 mains.:D

FWIW, in my office rig, I had SB-3s which were replaced by Threes, which were in turn replaced by M5s. The room is small, about 10' x 10' x 9' with glass on both sides (all glass on one side), and the placement required them being on/in bookshelves/cases right up against the front wall behind them, and the M5s sounded much better than either the Threes or SB-3s in this particular room and placement situation thanks to their more focused imaging and boundary control. As always, YMMV.

Okie, thanks for your patient and explaination. Let me start enjoy the M5 for this holiday season before the sales are over.
Please keep in mind to let me know in the future if you ever plan to part it out your SB3 from storage.
Thanks again. :)

[skipf]

LSi9's. Hands down the best small speaker I've heard. As someone mentioned earlier the AR-2ax was an outstanding speaker. Loved the pair I had. Doubt you can find any in decient shape though.

[Deadof_knight]

Polk 5 jrs later style !

[marker]

Okie, thanks for your patient and explaination. Let me start enjoy the M5 for this holiday season before the sales are over.
Please keep in mind to let me know in the future if you ever plan to part it out your SB3 from storage.
Thanks again. :)

You're welcome. For your intended application and placement situation here, rock music from speakers on bookshelves, I honestly believe the M5 is the absolute best speaker for you that's out there on the market right now that you could possibly get, but I would suggest adding a sub or subs at some point too.

I even tried a pair of Revel Performa M22s in my office rig too since they also have a boundary control and a tweeter level adjustment (but they are still rear ported though, which does need some room behind it), and the M5s even topped them in that particular room and placement set up.

As for my SB-3s, I'm going to send them to Jesse for his mods hopefully: ;)

We can talk.

PM coming your way after this. :D

[Yashu]

Here is a pic of my favorite JBL bookshelf. and a couple of pics of some very pretty corner horns.


The first pic, wow, those are some serious monitors, I'll bet they sound HUGE! You need a theater for those!