Girlfriend's Dim Witted Dimmer Switch Idea

[zx_toth]

So Im pleased that I solved my buzzing problem last week (with the help of Club Polk members), it was an interconnect. No problems in sight, just sitting back and saving for the next upgrade .... seems like problems find people who are relaxing and have their guard down....

My girlfriend got this terrible idea that she wants a dimmer switch installed in the formal dining room which uses the same lines as my electronics. I put an end to such ideas ... saying "That wont happen as my electronics are sensitive to such things". The electrician was there and said that the noise would only happen when it is being turned ... that was enough... "No". So I leave for the gym and apparently she goes ahead and tells the electrician to come back tommorow and install the dimmer switch .... THAT WAS ENOUGH TO START A FIGHT! I told her unless she wanted to pay for a 800$ voltage stabilzer WE WERE NOT GETTING A DIMMER SWITCH ... she got all upset, telling me shes always wanted a dimmer switch for romantic dinners and setting the mood of a party. I wouldnt let down, saying my gear was worth thousands and didnt want a garbage dimmer switch damaging my gear for some guests I probably would rather not have there ...

Anyway, can anyone explain what a dimmer switch does to the electronics on the same line (damage? temporary noise?)... would a nice voltage stabilizer solve the problem with a dimmer switch. Im thinking a 20 amp dedicated line would be too expensive if you are hiring someone to do this. I read that EarlyBird got it for 180$ but sounds like you had a good deal on labor and helped out as well as bought your own equipment ... I am useless, dont know any electricians, so Im imagining wads of money to be spent on this ..

Thoughts would be appreciated ... I will not cave on this fight unless I can get a 20 amp dedicated line or a voltage stabilizer (if that would help?).

Thanks ahead of time.

Zsolt

[dkg999]

The 20 amp dedicated line will cost less than it will take to get your girlfriend happy again ;) Install the dimmer switch and see if it actually adds any noise to the circuit. The good ones don't add much interference, ie spend $25 or so on it. If there is noise, then a $250 power conditioner from Panamax is about the same cost as the nice dinner and night on the town you're out at this point.

[bigaudiofanatic]

A dimmer actualy curves the voltage feild in lamins terme puts resistance on the electrical wire going to the dimmer.

[Face]

... she got all upset, telling me shes always wanted a dimmer switch for romantic dinners and setting the mood of a party. Buy some candles. ;)

[anonymouse]

A dimmer actualy curves the voltage feild in lamins terme puts resistance on the electrical wire going to the dimmer.

Actually the vast majority of dimmers do not add any resistance. They lower the power sent to the device by adjusting the duty cycle of the sine wave. Think of it this way - the electric power is supposed to be a sine wave a 60Hz... a nice smooth curve that goes positive and negative vs. the neutral 60 times a second. What a dimmer does is look at that sine wave and cut off the power before it reaches the top of the wave, then switches it back on again as it nears the neutral again. By changing the point during the cycle at which it turns on and turns off the wave, it actually reduces the maximum voltage applied to the device attached. The problem is that the rapid turn on and turn off 60 times a second is done via a solid state triac which introduces all sorts of harmonics as the switch rapidly turns off and on. This is what causes the noise. Dimmers are required to have a damping circuit to eliminate or reduce that noice, but in practice, some noise will pass back to the remainder of the line.

[hypertone]

A dimmer uses pulse width modulation to dim the light. Think of flipping a switch really fast. Flip it on for half of the time and off for the other half of the time and you have 50% duty cycle, a perfect square wave, and 50% of total power delivered. This does indeed create noise, but I'd imagine the circuit designer would put some capacitors in the circuit to account for this. When it is set to full brightness, the duty cycle should be 100% and it shouldn't create any noise. Any noise it does create will be very low in amplitude, and probably won't add much more noise to the line than already exists. Your gear has filters in power supplies to get rid of power line noise. I wouldn't worry about it too much, chances are you won't hear the difference.

[zx_toth]

Hmm ... the general impression Im getting is that the dimmer may or may not add a bit of interference. However this bit of noise which would occur only when it was in use would not cause any damage to componets, however not getting the dimer switch may damage the relationship ... ;)

I may have to change my a-hole act tommorow morning to something more pleasant ...

Zsolt

[wingnut4772]

Get a dimmer switch and get a dedicated 20 amp line. Win win. Your stuff will sound better on the dedicated circuit. Get at least one.

[lightman1]

Eating a little humble pie hasn't killed anyone as far as I know. A little mood lighting and a good marriage far out-weigh a few transients in an AC sine wave. Dimmer switch. IMHO

[disneyjoe7]

she got all upset, telling me shes always wanted a dimmer switch for romantic dinners and setting the mood of a party.
Zsolt



Romantic dinners and setting the mood. That's all good dud, you can't win this argument. So let her have the dimmer, see if it causes noise then let's see what options we can come up with.

[michael_w]

I threw a dimmer switch in my room to watch movies and so far so good. I didn't notice any added noise and when it comes to music the lights are either on or off all the way ;)

Good luck with this one! BTW, you don't need an electrician to install a dimmer switch. It's not a big task as long as you make sure to shut off the power first.

[Dennis Gardner]

Go high quality or don't get one at all. $6 dimmers can be noisy, both physically and electrically.

From the Lutron website, RFI is the hum to be watched for.

WHAT IS RADIO FREQUENCY INTERFERENCE (RFI)?
RFI is a buzzing noise which may occur in some audio and radio equipment when solid-state dimmers are used nearby. Although every Lutron dimmer contains a filter to suppress RFI, additional filtering may be required in some applications. Typical examples of RFI-sensitive equipment are AM radios, stereo sound systems, broadcasting equipment, intercom systems, public address systems, and wireless telephones.

RFI can be transmitted in two ways:
Radiated
Conducted

Note: The suggestions in this application note will help minimize RFI: however, they do not guarantee that RFI will be completely eliminated.

Radiated RFI
Any sensitive equipment that is in close proximity to dimming equipment can pick up the RFI and generate noise into its system.

The following are three possible ways to minimize the radiated RFI:
Physically separate the RFI-sensitive equipment from the dimmer and its wiring.
Run dimmer wiring in its own metal conduit.
Use a lamp debuzzing coil (available from Lutron) to filter the RFI. See below for more information.
Conducted RFI
In some cases, RFI is conducted through the building wiring and directly into the AC power supply of the sensitive equipment.

To minimize the conducted RFI, follow these guidelines:

Feed sensitive equipment from a circuit without a dimmer on it.
Add a power-line filter to the sensitive equipment.
Add shielded wire for all microphones and input cables. Also, use low-impedance balanced microphone cables, which are less susceptible to interference than high-impedance types.
Make sure all the equipment is grounded. Connect all shields to the ground at one point. Ground lighting fixture metal housings properly.
Use a lamp debuzzing coil (available from Lutron) to filter the RFI.

[rskarvan]

Your either going to get noise from the dimmer switch or noise from your girl friend. So, there really are two solutions to this problem.

[Sansui]

Your either going to get noise from the dimmer switch or noise from your girl friend. So, there really are two solutions to this problem.

Right but at least he can turn the dimmer switch off.

[Yashu]

This is awsome... you didn't know exactly what makes a dimmer switch bad... but you still put your foot down and said NO to your girl's romantic desires... now this, my friends, is a true audiophile.

The girl will get over it... this is what they make candles for, as someone else already said. If she wants things dim so bad, why don't YOU surprise her with candle lit romance, and then let her know that romance cannot be just demanded, and dimmer switch or no, unless you both are happy with it, it isn't going to solve anything. She needs to know why it is so important to you, and you need to show her, that you want to compromise.

If it was me? I would just get a nice post modern lamp, put a low wattage bulb in it, and turn off the main lights and leave the lamp on for "dim" light. Dimmer switches aren't just noisy, they are tacky.

[reeltrouble1]

You want the dedicated line. So she gets the switch, you get the power line and maybe something else from her.

RT1

[steveinaz]

Get her a dimmer...sheesh.

[VR3]

You should get a 20 amp dedicated line for the dimmer...

That would solve everything

[jdhdiggs]

I didn't see where you two are married. I say dump her now while you have the option and date someone more amenable to your idiosyncrasies.

[john22614]

This is not one you want to get too upset over.....besides, she may look better when the lights are low.

[wingnut4772]

I am telling you, get the dedicated line for thr rig. This little argument is a blessing in disguise. You will thank her.

[dorokusai]

You should have back handed her and then escorted the electrician out by gunpoint. ;)

EDIT: Emoticon added for the slow ones.

[mhardy6647]

A dimmer actualy curves the voltage feild in lamins terme puts resistance on the electrical wire going to the dimmer.
say what?

is "in lamins terme" Latin perhaps?

[dkg999]

From the Islamic Guide to Relationships - admonish her 4 to 6 times a day, refuse to share her bed, then beat her lightly about the body leaving no marks. She should start coming around at that point ;)

(and for the slow ones, I am joking :rolleyes:)

[fireshoes]

Problem solved on your end. ;)

http://www.cocoononline.com/shop/images/candles.jpg

[Willow]

I threw a dimmer switch in my room to watch movies and so far so good. I didn't notice any added noise and when it comes to music the lights are either on or off all the way ;)

Good luck with this one! BTW, you don't need an electrician to install a dimmer switch. It's not a big task as long as you make sure to shut off the power first.


Same here, dimmer in the fam room. No prob. Installed it myself.

[zx_toth]

I didn't see where you two are married. I say dump her now while you have the option and date someone more amenable to your idiosyncrasies.

Shes wearing a big rock that I bought for her, so the marraige thing is on the way and we just bought a house together .... so the dumping not so easy :) and wouldnt want to anyway :)

So many funny comments and good advice ...

Ill probably let her have her dimmer switch ... I dont mind an electrician doing it as she is paying. I will make sure it is a high quality dimmer and than also inquire about the cost of getting a 20 amp dedicated line though it isnt my first priority at this point for my rig ...

I know it is funny how I stomped my foot down without knowing what a dimmer switch did that was detrimental to the sound but I knew it was SOMEHOW detrimental and that was enough for me ... I did explain to her that it was detrimental to my equipment and for that reason did not approve of this. She didnt mention that the electrician was coming back tonight so I may have done enough to ward this idea off ... though I will soften my stance and suggest candles, as many Casanovas on here have suggested, and not mention the dimmer if she doesnt mention it :D If the 20 amp service is affordable to my current financial situation I may bring up the dimmer again:D


Zsolt

[ben62670]

I am telling you, get the dedicated line for thr rig. This little argument is a blessing in disguise. You will thank her.

Plus one
She gets her dimmer, and you get a dedicated to the panel 20 amp circuit. Win Win;)

[Early B.]

Glad you decided to get her the dimmer. 'Eff the electrician. You can very easily install it yourself.

Don't worry about a dedicated line. A good quality switch probably won't make an audible difference.

[michael_w]

Think of the brownie points you'll get for doing it yourself too! Four wires - two positive, two negative and no modification necessary as the good majority of dimmers are a drop in replacement for a regular light switch. All you'll probably need is a phillips screwdriver and maybe some wire cutters.

[Rivrrat]

Ill probably let her have her dimmer switch ... I dont mind an electrician doing it as she is paying

Put the stupid switch in yourself, it's a 20 min job at the worst. And if you do it, one you save money, (think cables or cd's/dvd's), and you rack up valuble brownie pts with the SO.

[wingnut4772]

Put the stupid switch in yourself, it's a 20 min job at the worst. And if you do it, one you save money, (think cables or cd's/dvd's), and you rack up valuble brownie pts with the SO.

Yeah!I'm a girl and I put in my own Lutron dimmer.

[mhardy6647]

20 minutes?! mmm... if it takes 20 minutes, maybe you shouldn't put it in yourself...

[vonnie123]

I didn't see where you two are married. I say dump her now while you have the option and date someone more amenable to your idiosyncrasies.

The above option has already been mentioned, however, if she is a good match for you, get the dedicated 20 amp circuit for your system; as stated, it's a win-win. Dimmers are major noise generators as you can see. Good luck.

[dbnh]

I look forward to reading more about events in this couple's life together, including perspectives from the original poster. It's refreshing to read firsthand about the flexibility of those in the now generation.

"First came the dimmer;
then the verbal "ouch";
then came "honey,
you can sleep on the couch!" :eek:

Peace, y'all. :)

[bsoko2]

Dimmer switch today, what's next?

[mrbigbluelight]

Tell your girlfriend that the only dimmer that's going to be installed in your house will be on her yapper.
Then go plop on the couch, turn on the football game, and direct her to get in the kitchen and make you a sammich.

When she delivers your sammich, tell her to "hit the showers" because you might be in the mood for a little luvin' during the half-time show.

Trust me.

She'll forget all about the dimmer.

P.S. It seems as if she might be a little hard of hearing, so be sure to snap your fingers at her when she's receiving commands. That'll help get her attention.

[SCompRacer]

Sounds like your girlfriend is more like a fiancée. My best wishes to you both.

[Manilaboy]

Just make sure the electrician doesn't make regular visits while you're away ;)

[Yashu]

I have a hard time understanding why an electrician needs to be called to install a simple dimmer. *grunts* That is a typical female... they would rather pay someone else to do what A: you CAN do yourself, (seriously, you can, it's not hard, you already have a computer on the internet, you can google how to do it), and B: would rather pay someone else than to CONVINCE you to do it yourself.

See, this is typical passive aggressive behavior, you don't want the dimmer, so she is going to fight back by hiring someone to do a 10 minute job that you could do, but don't want to, thus humiliating you in the process (so she thinks). Most women these days (not all, but most western, and more typically american), are brought up from day one to learn the "other way", this passive aggressive shit that really gets us men all pissed off, and then rightfully so or not, starts a fight, where the real action takes place... and then they can claim that you started the fight, leading to YOU apologizing to her for what she set into motion in the first place.

We are a nation of men raised by women, so men just deal with this crap and either let it get to them, brush it off, or otherwise accept it as "typical" female behavior (like I did, see what I did there?).

How do we get out of this vicious cycle? Find the right woman, the yin to your yang, as it were. There is nothing shameful about putting your foot to the ground and saying no. IF it is your place, she has no business going behind your back and hiring an electrician... how can that kind of relationship maintain itself? Where is the trust? She should be able to trust that you will listen to her and consider her wants, just as you should be able to trust her not to go behind your back and do something against your will.

The dimmer, is the least of the problems here, my friend. Put your foot down and keep it down, and if she loves you, she isn't going to leave you over a dimmer, and in the mean time, you can arrange for the dedicated line, and once it is installed, put the dimmer in when she isn't around so she comes home surprised that you actually did listen to her afterall. Patience is a virtue.

[tonyb]

Your reading alittle too into this Yashu.......call the electrician.....install the dedicated line,and the dimmer....you get what you want....she gets what she wants....win/win.

[rskarvan]

Yashu is right on target. The least of this guys problems is the dimmer switch!

[janmike]

Your reading alittle too into this Yashu.......call the electrician.....install the dedicated line,and the dimmer....you get what you want....she gets what she wants....win/win.

Agreed.

What's going to happen when they cannot decide on which house to buy.

[tonyb]

It's called "compromise" gents.....something that happens in every happy :)relationship.

[Sansui]

Ill probably let her have her dimmer switch ...

Tell the electrician that you want the type of dimmer switch that looks like a regular light switch. The ones that have a round knob which you push to turn on and rotate to adjust "dimmage" won't last nowhere as long as the other type will.

[SCompRacer]

Agreed.

What's going to happen when they cannot decide on which house to buy.

It appears that has already happened.



and we just bought a house together




I may have to change my a-hole act tommorow morning to something more pleasant ...

I know it is funny how I stomped my foot down without knowing what a dimmer switch did that was detrimental to the sound…




Sounds like Zsolt can handle this all by himself. Is a spirited female such a threat to some of you? Maybe we should go back to foot binding?

I recall having all sorts of stupid arguments like this early on with my wife. Idiotic power struggles. Things got better after I accepted her as an equal partner in our marriage. The oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other’s shadow. Tony is right. If you can’t compromise, get out now before children are involved.

[dbnh]

Tell the electrician that you want the type of dimmer switch that looks like a regular light switch. The ones that have a round knob which you push to turn on and rotate to adjust "dimmage" won't last nowhere as long as the other type will.
I've found the above to be true as well.

[BaggedLancer]

Put your foot down and keep it down, and if she loves you, she isn't going to leave you over a dimmer, and in the mean time, you can arrange for the dedicated line, and once it is installed, put the dimmer in when she isn't around so she comes home surprised that you actually did listen to her afterall. Patience is a virtue.

That's is the funniest line I've read in this thread.... The mental picture I get of the argument over a dimmer then her storming out the door is priceless.


Defiantely suprise her and get the dedicated line as well as the dimmer.....might get you a little extra that night or it might get you sleeping on the sofa cause you did it without consulting her.