Steam Powered Record Cleaning

[jm1]

If you do not listen to LPs in your system, feel free to NOT leave any negative reasons why other shouldn't and simply move on to another thread.

In my virtual travels, I have come across various methods to clean LPs. Just about all methods include a variety of steps using several different types of retail or user mixed liquid cleaning solutions. As I have not read any mention of a steam cleaning process on the forum, I created this quick post for all.

I found some information on using a steady stream of steam to cleanse a LP. The steam is produced by a hand held steam generator. Threaders: you can find the method details in the thread “Deep Cleaning Records with Steam? (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1192142257&read&3&4&)”. A steam cleaning kit is available from Mapleshade (http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/deepcleaningsystem.php) providing all the necessary items for cleaning LPs.

I procured a hand held steam generator from a local shop. This unit will supply a continuous stream of steam and has various accessories for directing the steam or cleaning items. The one accessory I find most useful and might be worth looking for is a right angle adaptor to direct the steam down when the unit is held level.

Prior to testing the steam unit, I was mixing a Tergitol solution as per the formula specified by the “Library and Archives Canada (http://www.collectionscanada.ca/6/28/s28-1019-e.html)” for use on a VPI HW-16.5 RCM. This formula was provided to me by Polk’s Kenneth Swauger. Once again, many thanks for leading me to this formula.

I am using the RCM as a platform for cleaning the records instead of following the outlined method. While the record is rotating on the RCM platter, I direct a steady stream of steam onto the record from about six inches above. This is done for one complete rotation. I immediately follow this with a normal cleaning using the Tergitol solution followed by a rinse using ultra purified water.

All I will say is that after this cleaning process, playback quality is significantly improved. In comparison, cleaning with just the Tergitol solution is adequate and does not produce anywhere near the same results.

I also tried to warp some old abused LPs with the stream of steam from a height of six inches. After a very significant blast, no problems were encountered. The only issue I had was than the LP was very clean and sound much better.

After cleaning some LPs last night, I decided next time I will try vacuuming the condensed steam from the record before applying the Tergitol solution. I might even use a carbon fiber brush to see if this further loosens any particles from the LP surface.

Highly recommended.


Edit

I use the McCulloch MC-1220 (http://www.amazon.com/McCulloch-MC-1220-Handheld-Steamer/dp/B0000DF0R9) hand held cleaner. This was the only model available locally. It is robust and provides a good stream of steam.

I would suggest looking at the linked thread as it provides some alternative units to try including the one in the Mapleshade kit. The Mapleshade kit includes the steam generator as well as additional items for cleaning LPs.

[Ricardo]

Interesting; the warpping was the first thought that crossed my mind.

What generator are you using? Can you provide a link?

[strider]

I saw a thread or 2 mentioning this on Audiocircle. We've got a steamer that we use to remove wallpaper, kinda loooks like a handheld vacuum cleaner. I might have to give it a whirl.

Edit: looking at that Mapleshade link, it also looks like a more robust version of what they're offering, and we sure as heck didn't pay $150!!

[treitz3]

I would not recommend the steamer that you use for the wallpaper to clean your records! It does let out steam, but it also spits out drops of water that could possibly melt the groove imprint because of the duration of time the drop of water sits on a specific area and the associated temperature.

If you try it, do so on a record that you would not be torn apart if it was damaged. ;)

[capecodder]

Thats a pretty neat approach and a lot cheaper than the fancy record cleaning machines. If you get a chance could you load a picture of the process? I think I get it but a pic would be nice.

[hearingimpared]

I've been researching this and speaking to (you too JM1) on this and have been vigorously searching for the right steam cleaner. Thanks for all you info it is very, very helpful.

[strider]

I would not recommend the steamer that you use for the wallpaper to clean your records! It does let out steam, but it also spits out drops of water that could possibly melt the groove imprint because of the duration of time the drop of water sits on a specific area and the associated temperature.

If you try it, do so on a record that you would not be torn apart if it was damaged. ;)

Thanks for the heads up.

I may try to find one of the ones listed in the Audiogon link then.

[Polkersince85]

I have a Euro Pro steam cleaner that I picked up at a thrift one time for next to nothing. I may fire it up and see how it does. It puts out a good head of steam. Hadn't thought about using it to clean records.

[dee1949]

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B0001GV32M/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt/002-5386085-0208859?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


....i believe this is the same as Mapleshade

[hearingimpared]

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B0001GV32M/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt/002-5386085-0208859?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


....i believe this is the same as Mapleshade

I'm looking at the Mapleshade "handbook" now and that thing looks like a dead ringer!!! Hmmm $35 vs $150 . . . .

[TroyD]

Thats a pretty neat approach and a lot cheaper than the fancy record cleaning machines. If you get a chance could you load a picture of the process? I think I get it but a pic would be nice.

I don't think that this is supposed to replace the vaccuum cleaner as opposed to augmenting it. You still have to suck the crap off the surface of the LP.

BDT

[hearingimpared]

I don't think that this is supposed to replace the vaccuum cleaner as opposed to augmenting it. You still have to suck the crap off the surface of the LP.

BDT

Definite augmentation, but a fellow Polkie JM1 has given the thumbs up on it as it really gets to the bottom of the grooves. I'm definitely going to give it a try especially now with the new cartridge in place. It is amazing with the type of stylus on my Airy3 getting way down to the bottom of the groove, even records that I considered pristene, when done playing one side of a record, there is a black clump of dirt coming off onto the Onzow.

[reeltrouble1]

there is a black clump of dirt coming off onto the Onzow.

not to worry, I read somewhere the government was doing some testing in your area. although I would not recommend planting any tomato's with your "clump" of dirt.......

However you loosen the gunk agree the vacuum is the ticket to get it off the record.

RT1

[skipf]

This looks interesting:

http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html

[jm1]

From the “Deep Cleaning Records With Steam?” thread posted by “Crem1”:

“As for the process its quite simple. First, you bring the steamer to a head of steam. Using eye and hand protection hold the LP away from your body and face,and steam the groves of the LP. Gently wipe with a soft cloth of choice, re-steam with a liquid record cleaner that has been spread/lightly scrubed with a record cleaning brush re-steam , lightly dry and steam again to remove any residue of the cleaner before hand drying. That's it ... Unless you own a record cleaning machine (RCM) as I do. I combine the two as to steam , vaccum/clean , steam ,vaccum/clean, steam and dry. Using both methods a steamer and RCM cleans lp to perfection. One disclamer : Steam Cleaning can not remove manufacturing defects or prior owner inflicted abuse to a recording. Gunk can go but nothing can save deep gouges and scratches.”

The steam process can be used by itself to clean records. You would need to acquire the items detailed in the thread or you could purchase the Mapleshade kit which includes all the items and a “proprietary Deep Rinse Additive for the steamer”.

If you have a RCM, a blast of steam can be incorporated into the cleaning process. As I mentioned, just using the cleaning fluid on the RCM is only adequate as compared to the combined cleaning fluid and steam cleansing. All LPs cleaned thus far have considerably benefited from the combined processes.

I am also going to try replacing the carbon fiber record brush with something else. The bristles clump together after a few records. I need to have a look around to see what is available locally.

After once again reading the above quoted text, I will try changing the cleansing method by adding another blast of steam between the fluid cleaning and rinse:

steam, vacuum, fluid cleaning, vacuum, steam, rinse, vacuum

IIRC, the Steam Fast SF-227 is also available at Wal-Mart in the US. It is not available in Canada so I need to find an alternative.


Cheers!! to blowing off some steam before relaxing and listen to some music.

[jm1]

Doh! Duplicate post.

[TroyD]

Try the MFSL brush...

BDT

[jm1]

Try the MFSL brush...

BDT
I use one with the Tergitol cleaning solution.

[hearingimpared]

I use the MFSL brush in the final clean & rinse stages, it really gets down into those grooves. I just got some extra pads; I'm thinking about replacing the strips on the vacuum tube. That's the piece that wears out and causes me to have to keep buying replacement tubes . . . argh.

[jm1]

Anyone try this yet?? I thought some of you vinyl guy's would be on this immediately.

[hearingimpared]

I've so many new things going on here that I need to get accustomed to them first before trying anything more new.

[Kenneth Swauger]

Hello,
Thanks to everyone who provided information on steam cleaning LPs. I bought a steam cleaner and tried it out last night with great results. I combined it with my normal record cleaning procedure and the results were very impressive. Big difference in background noise and far less tics and pops. I used a record that I had already cleaned the previous way and listened to it; then re-cleaned using the steamer and Nitty Gritty with liquid cleaner and things were much quieter. There seemed to be more inner detail and definition from a reduction in background noise.
Again, thanks!
Ken

[shack]

My wife has one of these Rowenta Commercial garment steamers she uses instead of ironing.

http://images.surlatable.com/surlatable/images/en_US/local/products/detail/569244v1.jpg

There is no way she would let me put any vinyl cleaning solution in it. I wonder if you were to clean the LP then steam it and then vacuum it...if that would work?

[Kenneth Swauger]

Hello,
The procedure that i used was to put the record on the platter support of my record cleaner. Then as I turned the record with my left hand, I held the steamer (Shark model bought at K-Mart, yes "Christmas at K-Mart!") filled with distilled water. After waving the nozzle back-and-forth across the radius of the turning record, as it turns, I used my Dr. Record cleaning brush and my own home-brew cleaning liquid to brush the record's surface. Flip it over and vacuum off the liquid and do the same for the other side. Then I use Dr. Record's general day-to-day cleaning liquid and finish up with a final vacuum (you could use distilled water for this). I do this final rinse to get rid of any residue from the cleaning liquid.
The only way you could use the steamer your wife has is if it has an attachment to concentrate the steam to a single point. The steam needs to be focused to a small area to effectively dislodge any grime in the record's grooves.
Ken

[shack]

The only way you could use the steamer your wife has is if it has an attachment to concentrate the steam to a single point. The steam needs to be focused to a small area to effectively dislodge any grime in the record's grooves.
Ken

It does have an attachment that will do that. It may be worth a try. Thanks Ken.

[Kenneth Swauger]

Good luck!

[jm1]

Hello,
Thanks to everyone who provided information on steam cleaning LPs. I bought a steam cleaner and tried it out last night with great results. I combined it with my normal record cleaning procedure and the results were very impressive. Big difference in background noise and far less tics and pops. I used a record that I had already cleaned the previous way and listened to it; then re-cleaned using the steamer and Nitty Gritty with liquid cleaner and things were much quieter. There seemed to be more inner detail and definition from a reduction in background noise.
Again, thanks!
Ken

Glad it worked for you. The combination of the Tergitol solution and steam provide a very effective cleaning process. Once again, thanks for the lead on the Tergitol.


It does have an attachment that will do that. It may be worth a try.

Your unit is larger than the hand held units and may generate more steam. I would suggest starting with a height greater than the 6" away from an old LP.

Let us know how it works.

[treitz3]

Mr. Swauger, I have heard about your TT rig from some senior members of this forum and know what kind of level you are at when it comes to TT's. Thanks for the follow up post as I will be getting one of these shortly. The attention to detail / procedures in what you wrote is priceless to an "LP Virgin" [again], such as myself. Close to 20 years have passed since I've had Vinyl in my rig and only recently have I gotten back to vinyl. I've got the dual sided Nitty Gritty but I'm still experiencing a little grain in some tracks and pops (occasionally) from material still apparently embedded within the grooves.

Your comments are appreciated.

[Kenneth Swauger]

Hello Treitz3,
No problem, I'm glad the information was helpful. I have the original Nitty Gritty, solid oak and loud as anything. I have to wear ear plugs to keep the noise down. But, I must have cleaned thousands of records over the years. In the past the best sounding record cleaner was made by Torumat and I used it for years and years. But, unfortunately the person who developed that has passed away and it can no longer be found. I talked with him once on the phone and he was a very nice person. There is an audio shop, somewhere on the west coast, that knew this person very well and hoped to eventually make the cleaner available. That would be great.
The Turgitol blend seems to come closest to what I remember the Torumat being, but who can remember how two record cleaners sound. The only clue I can give it that with the Torumat I would, occassionaly, get the distinct impression of smelling either cigar smoke or beer when I was cleaning a record (I can hear the chuckles now from Forum members). I thought I thought I was having flashbacks, but I was cleaning some records for a friend and I smelled cigar smoke. Then it dawned on me, this guy smoked cigars and then it made sense. The Torumat was releasing the microscopic film of cigar smoke or spilled beer as it was cleaning the record. So, sniff your records!
Where have you been finding most of your records?
Ken

[hearingimpared]

Thanks to both you John and you Ken. I think I'll get the Shark from K-mart tonight.

When I look at my records under my handy dandy Radio Shack hand held microscope I see nothing but groove. If this steamer really works then I'll be shocked. Not that I don't believe you but I clean the daylights out of my records.

Oh and Ken, I've smelled cigarettes, cigars, sour milk, and booze on some used records I've cleaned. I've also seen the nasty yellow waste from the nicotene in my drain hose.

[jm1]

When I look at my records under my handy dandy Radio Shack hand held microscope I see nothing but groove. If this steamer really works then I'll be shocked. Not that I don't believe you but I clean the daylights out of my records.

I prefer to listen to my records instead of viewing them. ;)


Oh and Ken, I've smelled cigarettes, cigars, sour milk, and booze on some used records I've cleaned. I've also seen the nasty yellow waste from the nicotene in my drain hose.

Oh, uh, thanks for sharing that, I think.

[treitz3]

Where have you been finding most of your records?
I actually never got rid of my collection and then about 7 years ago, my father gave me his :D. As far as how I get my new records? A place in Charlotte called Manifest Discs. They actually have new and used records that I'll browse on occasion. Other than that, the forums.

All I smell currently is the smell of new plastic from the Nitty Gritty and though I have never heard the older models, I do know that mine is quite a bit quieter than the VPI I heard at PF this year. I can actually hear myself think.:rolleyes:

[Gretsch6136]

Reading this thread has inspired me to give steam cleaning a go. I have always been very particular as to the care and cleaning of my records and therefore interested in any ways to improve the results.

My normal process with used records was to first brush them with a microfibre brush to remove as much loose dirt as possible. Next I vacuumed them using a soft velvet sleeve fitted to the hose of the wife's vacuum cleaner. I finished up with a spray of AM record cleaner and a good scrubbing with a velvet pad.

A couple of days ago I went to Kmart and bought a Pirahna branded steam cleaner. I pulled out a record that had undergone the aformentioned cleaning process but was still too crackly for my liking. I placed it on a broken turntable that serves as my cleaning station. I gave it a spin and hit it with the steam. I used a 45 degree angle at around 2-3 inches from the record surface. As the record was spinning I traversed its surface from lead-in to lead-out grooves a couple of times. I then reversed the direction of the spray and gave it another going over. Wiped off the water with a deep nap microfibre towel and finished up with the AM record cleaner, felt pad and a final polish with a dry microfibre towel.

For comparison's sake I had made a short recording of the record prior to starting the cleaning process. I then made another recording after cleaning. The difference was significant to say the least. The number of pops & crackles was down by approx 50%, and their volume was down by a similar amount. The overall effect was to lower the noise floor dramatically thereby giving the music much greater presence, dynamics, and clarity. Interestingly, more bass seemed to come through as well.

In the end I cleaned it three more times and recorded the results each time. Improvements continued to be made through to the third cleaning, but the fourth didn't seem to help any further. Overall, I reckon I achieved a 75% reduction in the number and amplitude of the crackles. I verified the results by getting my wife to listen to the recordings without telling her which was which. She could easily hear the results of the cleaning and was able to correctly identify the order of the first two recordings but could not distinguish between the third and fourth.

I cleaned about 6 records last night and they all benefited from this process. Interestingly, I could see a very faint reddish hue starting to develop on my yellow cleaning towel. Obviously this is whatever gunk was stuck down in the grooves. It would be interesting to look at it under a microscope!

My verdict on steam cleaning is a big thumbs up!!

Cheers,

Mark

[strider]

Just gave this a try on a couple of hard luck Goodwill records I had written off as unlistenable. Previously I had cleaned them as I had all my other lp's, a quick clean with a dry brush to get the surface contaminants off, a wet clean then vacuum with MFSL Super Deep Cleaner, a second wet clean/vacuum with their Super Record Wash and then a pass with a Hunt EDA carbon fiber brush immediately prior to playing. This process typically yields good results, I've rescued some gems from the thriftstore in the past year or so.

Using the steam cleaner I made one pass around the record, scrubbed it with an MFSL brush, steamed again, then vaccumed. Next was an application of the Super Deep Cleaner, then steam/brush/steam/vacuum. Last cleaning step sustituted the Record Wash for the Deep Cleaner. First go 'round I stopped there; the second side I added a rinse cycle after the final cleaning step using the steam cleaner then another vacuum. I'm happy with the results, the two albums I tried this on today were so noisey before I couldn't help but focus on the cracks and pops when listening to them. After the steam cleaning the surface noise was reduced by 60% or so. There is some noise evident between tracks, but it's all but completely unnoticeable while music is playing. I also feel that the there's better seperation of instruments and vocals, and that the bass is tighter as well. I'm going to keep playing around with the process, I don't believe I've gotten the most out of it yet. Thanks for taking the time to pst this method, jm1.

[madmax]

Oh crap, another thing to add to the cleaning process... So, is this shark steam cleaner the one for around $40?
madmax

[treitz3]

I haven't had the time to get it yet [holidays], but believe you me....first thing tomorrow I will have me one and I will let you know if my findings are the same.

[strider]

Oh crap, another thing to add to the cleaning process... So, is this shark steam cleaner the one for around $40?
madmax

You said it. I've got the steam cleaner set up on the other side of the basement from my RCM, after cleaning a couple of records it felt like a circuit training exercise routine. I've got the Ultra Steam Shark and, IIRC, the ones I've seen were around that mark.

[treitz3]

Well, I didn't see the Ultra Shark but I did pick up the Shark and it was $42.89 including NC tax at Target. Do you know the difference between the Shark and the Ultra Shark? The Shark is 1000 watts with accessories that include;
Flexible hose
Steam/Garment diffuser and bonnet
Window squeegee
3 nylon bristle brushes
Angle adapter
Filling flask

The water capacity is 9.5 fl. oz.9 (280ml) Not that I would NEED one, but I was wondering at the same price if I should return it and look for the Ultra Shark....

Hopefully I will have time to demo the unit before tonight's Basketball game.

[strider]

Well, I didn't see the Ultra Shark but I did pick up the Shark and it was $42.89 including NC tax at Target. Do you know the difference between the Shark and the Ultra Shark? The Shark is 1000 watts with accessories that include;
Flexible hose
Steam/Garment diffuser and bonnet
Window squeegee
3 nylon bristle brushes
Angle adapter
Filling flask

The water capacity is 9.5 fl. oz.9 (280ml) Not that I would NEED one, but I was wondering at the same price if I should return it and look for the Ultra Shark....

Hopefully I will have time to demo the unit before tonight's Basketball game.

I know for certain that the water capacity on the Ultra is 30 oz. As for the other differences I'm not certain, but I think I've got the same or similar accessories. I don't know why you'd need the Ultra model; also, I wouldn't go on my memory alone regarding them being similar in price.....

[treitz3]

Thanks for your reply. Think I'll stick with what I have and go ahead and open her up, but I won't be able to post results until later tonight. I'm anticipating the improvements! :D

How is yours working out for you? Good, bad, no difference, incredible? Does it affect the sound stage at all?

I'd love to use it on the needle itself, but I will not in fear of the glue getting weak.:eek:

[madmax]

All I could find today was the ultra shark for $39.99 at bed bath and beyond but they were out except for the display model.
madmax

[strider]

How is yours working out for you? Good, bad, no difference, incredible? Does it affect the sound stage at all?

I'd love to use it on the needle itself, but I will not in fear of the glue getting weak.:eek:

I'd say it does yield better results then my previous cleaning regime. Bass is deeper and tighter, treble has a bit more sparkle. Plucked notes have more decay and sound more natural. The soundstage may be a bit better, more three dimensional, but to be honest I didn't note any improvement before I read your question, so it may be in my head. The most remarkable results are on the albums that I just couldn't listen to previously due to the noise. The sound of the used albums that are in better shape did improve, but not as noticeably. While I am convinced it is a useful method, the added time and effort would make this a once an album step for me. I think I'll use it on each album the first time I clean it, but afterwards I'll use just the RCM for maintenance.

I checked the manual of the Ultra, in addition to the added capacity, it is also 1450 watts instead of 1000.

[Jed Leland]

Hello,
Well Ole St. Nick brought a Shark steamer, blue in color, and I've been having a good time steaming some of my favorite records. Certainly made a difference giving them the once over and then cleaning them as I normally do. The vinyl is much darker black in color and transient response and inner details have gotten better. Much lower back ground noise and a feeling of hearing less obscuring of the sound.
Reminds me of some of reissued DVDs where they show you how they processed the older movie stock and now its less murky and the colors are brighter and less grainy. I tend to be a lazy cuss, but this is worth the effort, in my opinion.
Thanks to all you guys who blazed the audio trail! What about steam powered amplifiers? where's Robert Fulton when you need him?
Jed

[madmax]

Picked up the ultra model today. These sharks are damn hard to find.
madmax

[strider]

There are a bunch of different models of Sharks on Overstock.com, including this one (http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Shark-Steam-Blaster/2925321/product.html) for $29.99 that looks similar to the one Mapleshade sells for $150.

[hearingimpared]

Thanks Ben! Between your and Ken's recommendation, I just ordered mine.

BTW Thanks to JM1 too.

[treitz3]

Well, I just tested the Shark to see if it spit water and it did not. I have to wait for the unit to cool back down for a refill. Next test. An LP. Sorry to those who were expecting an evaluation last night. Beer got the best of me. Evaluation coming soon to a post near you...

BTW, it cleans a drain like no other.....;)

[madmax]

I just ordered mine.



I knew you would fold quickly. :D

I have played with mine a little but have not sprayed an LP yet. Very controlled steam output on mine, no dripping, very powerful, I can hold my hand maybe 6" away without being too hot. Closer than 4" would cause pain for sure. How far away from the lp are you guys holding yours?

[treitz3]

I'm gonna have to experiment with that.

[hearingimpared]

I knew you would fold quickly. :D

I have played with mine a little but have not sprayed an LP yet. Very controlled steam output on mine, no dripping, very powerful, I can hold my hand maybe 6" away without being too hot. Closer than 4" would cause pain for sure. How far away from the lp are you guys holding yours?

Yes indeed!!! Your question as to how far has been the main reason I've taken so long to buy this thing. I'm afraid, with my heavy handed personality, that I'm gonna end up with a molten ball of black goo!!!

[madmax]

I guess I'll start with an old throw away lp and find the point where damage is done. Thats always the fun part. Then I'll back off a little and find where I can over use the steam and cause damage. Then I will stick to that place and not over use the steam. Does that sound like a plan?

[madmax]

Oh yea,
On the ultra I took the nozzle off and tried blowing steam. Truthfully, this may be the best way to use it. You get a much larger footprint of steam while still having good control.

[treitz3]

1st impression. 4" away w/ the 45 degree tip pointing down....improved separation, slightly deeper punch and an overall cleaner sound. Big difference? No. Difference? Yes.

The vinyl does look blacker than with a standard cleaning from the Nitty Gritty.

[treitz3]

There are a bunch of different models of Sharks on Overstock.com, including this one (http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Shark-Steam-Blaster/2925321/product.html) for $29.99 that looks similar to the one Mapleshade sells for $150.
Those are refurbished. Not that I care, just wanted to give everybody a heads up. ;)

[hearingimpared]

Those are refurbished. Not that I care, just wanted to give everybody a heads up. ;)

How'd you find that out?

[treitz3]

"This high-quality item has been factory refurbished. Please click on the icon above for more information on quality factory-reconditioned merchandise."

'bout 1/2 way down the link.

[strider]

How'd you find that out?

Pro'lly that big "REFURBISHED" icon down in the lower left hand side of the screen.:rolleyes:










I missed it, too.:o:D

[treitz3]

We're all human. It happens. So far the difference in sound quality justifies the cost IMO. 5 more minutes prep....whoopdie do. We aren't listening to vinyl for convenience anyway.;)

[hearingimpared]

Hey reburbed is good. . . it brings it up to current spec!

[madmax]

I did 10 records this evening. I started out with a test record which I didn't mind destroying. I have the bigger ultra shark. I started out by pinpointing a spot where some paint or glue or something had splattered the record. 3/8" spot. I tried and tried but whatever it was wouldn't loosen up. I noticed the record warped up right where I was spraying. (Maybe 1 minute, 1/2" away). As it cooled it went back into position. Given this I picked a track that played fine, did it again, it warped up then back down. It played fine afterwards. This was an insanely horible test and it did not destroy the record. You could not do this by mistake. I have to say no matter what you do you are not likely to harm an LP.

Then I pulled out a 78rpm record. These are very sensitive and I totally expected it to crack in half given the heat. It did not. I cleaned both sides holding the nozzle at a 45 degree angle parallel to the grooves. I then vacuumed and played. It looked a lot better and lost a lot of high frequency noise. Very nice!

Next I pulled out an old copy of High Infidelity by REO Speedwagon. One song I really like on the LP is Keep on Loving you. I've picked up maybe 5 copies of this LP hoping to get one that sounded good. None of them did. They are not noisy, just never sound good. I picked the particular track I like, held the steamer at a 45 degree angle, turned on the vacuum and did a real long spray one direction, then another really long spray the other direction. (This LP had been VERY well cleaned previously). Then I quickly ran the normal cleaner once and vacuumed. I put it on the table and to my surprise it sounded awesome! There are a lot of cymbals which very intricately play on the left and right side speakers throughout the song. Previously all I really noticed were cymbals which sounded kinda trashy, not real at all, somewhat noisy, annoying and a little sibilence. Now they have a very nice depth, come from nowhere and became the highlight of the song. The depth of the sound increased quite a bit and it was very alive sounding. While I perceived an increase of soundstage I listened very closely and realized the treble had just cleaned up and let the midrange take over. Depth of the soundstage is what really came alive. The LP overall (crackles and pops) may have become slighly less noisy but nothing to write home about.

My next LP was an older one. I had played it on poor players previously and it was pretty noisy. Lots of dust had been on it at some point but it had been cleaned very well. Once again I turned on the vacuum and sprayed the whole lp at a 45 degree angle, took plenty of time then re-sprayed in the opposite direction. Then I did a quick run with the standard cleaning fluid. I didn't feel this lp got any quieter at all with ticks and pops. Again the midrange leaped out at me. I could hear all sorts of things going on and again noticed the depth of the soundstage. It sounded bigger too.

Next was a few new sealed lp's. They sounded great to start with. After cleaning they had a blacker backround (which I normally notice after a normal cleaning) but I also noticed some sort of intimacy of the sound which wasn't there before. It was the sound of the recording electronics and/or recording room that I had not noticed previously.

My listening session was pretty much over at this point but I went ahead and cleaned a few more. I didn't really compare the before and after sound of the rest but the feeling of the deep soundstage was still with me. I played one which was untouched (which I always enjoy the sound of) and noticed it wasn't as deep sounding as I remembered.


We have a winner here for sure with this steam cleaning. I'm hooked. I certainly am glad I finally got around to reading this thread. Thanks JM. Also thanks to Ken S. I started taking it a little more serious after his comments.
madmax


Edit: BTW, at some point I refilled the steamer with distilled water and slightly over filled. The next record got spurts of boiling hot water sprayed all over it. It didn't hurt anything but I suggest not filling up the steamer completely to the advertised limit.

[jm1]

I certainly am glad I finally got around to reading this thread. Thanks JM. Also thanks to Ken S. I started taking it a little more serious after his comments.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[audiobliss]

Thanks for the vote of confidence.
LOL!!!

[madmax]

It didn't sound like a good idea to me to steam records at first, thats all. I imagined the grooves changing shape and all sorts of noises cropping up from inconsistant heat being applied, not to mention loss of high frequency.
madmax

[treitz3]

So far I haven't noticed any discernible difference between cleaning and immediately playing and letting the LP sit overnight. Thanks again to all who have been involved in this thread and a big shout out goes to jm1 for starting it in the first place!

[madmax]

I cleaned another 10 or so today with no problem. Makes me feel like I'm at the carwash. :)
madmax

[strider]

I cleaned another 10 or so today with no problem. Makes me feel like I'm at the carwash. :)
madmax

Are you still using the Shark without the nozzle attached? I tried it last night, and found the machine couldn't produce steam quick enough to keep up with the demand. Plus, my basement started to look like I had started a fog machine; I could barely see the damn record!

[treitz3]

I'm using the 45 degree attachment. I had to wrap the connection of the attachment with a towel to keep it from leaking drops of water. Strider, just look at the side of the Shark and it will tell you when it is ready for steam. I'm at between 3-4" above the album, direct stream.

[madmax]

I have been using the nozzle. Seems to work good with it. I tried once without but ran out of steam. I didn't know for sure if I left it on long enough.

What is the "45 degree attachment" anyway? Is that the thingy with the rubber wiper attached?

I'm thinking the larger model might have been a good choice. It gives a good amount of steaming time although not excessive.

Oh, BTW, in the scheme of things I think this is the best $40 I've spent on vinyl. The improvement is significant. I'm almost wondering if the steaming and vacuuming alone would be the best cleaning method. I'm feeling like I might be adding more dirt by applying the cleaner with the brush. Does anyone think steaming as the last step would cause drying out or hardening of the vinyl or anything bad?

madmax

[treitz3]

The 45 degree attachment is just a tip that points the steam down toward the LP. Yeah, I'm kinda wishing I had gotten the Ultra. Of course it may not produce steam any faster.

[madmax]

Once it gets going it keeps up. I wish it had some sort of "ready" light, a power switch and a fluid level indicator.

This looks just like the ultra shark at a reasonable cost. I ordered one as a backup. http://cgi.ebay.com/Sunshine-steamer-w-7PC-floor-kit_W0QQitemZ140193754385QQihZ004QQcategoryZ11702Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[hearingimpared]

Man you guys are making me crazy. . . I can't wait for the UPS guy!!!

[madmax]

I just sent this to HI in a pm and got to thinking I should have posted it here for all because it is relatively interesting, silly as it sounds. So here it is:

"I did an interesting clean last night with a clear red lp. I was sitting there looking through it at the tv screen. I was noticing that there was no dirty looking garbage on it, very nice looking. While looking through the ending groove where there were no grooves I could see the tv picture clearly (red of course). Through the grooves it was a pretty distorted looking picture but I could pretty easily make it out. I cleaned it in my normal fashion and it still looked about the same. Then I steam cleaned it. I could clearly see the picture now through the grooves. Don't ask why I sit around and do stuff like this, I just do. Now I'm wishing I had tried to take some pictures through it before and after."

[hearingimpared]

Wow!

[madmax]

Did you get it yet?

I'm thinking if I get time tonight I might pull out some of the LP's which had no problems, just didn't sound too great and give them a steam spin to see what happens.

I also have a bunch which although they look perfect they have a lot of noise. These came from a fellow who cleans them with his own home made solution which just doesn't seem to work properly. They actually got sudsy when I cleaned them normally the first time. Bad recipe I think.
madmax

[hearingimpared]

No I haven't! I keep looking out the door for the UPS guy.

Should distilled water alone be used in the steamer?

[madmax]

One of them, the "sunshine cleaner" says distilled water is not necessary but I remember from way back people saying to use distilled water when steaming clothes because tap water may leave stains. I went ahead and picked up a gallon of distilled to use.
madmax

[hearingimpared]

Thanks!

[madmax]

Don't worry about the mess all that steam will make of your cleaner, it looks worse than it is. Actually very little liquid left anywhere once you are done.

I've been cleaning with the normal cleaner first, then steam in both directions, then normal cleaner again. I think I may change the last cleaning to the MFSL pad (the velvet-like one) and see what that does. With the VPI applicator I'm feeling like I may be adding more dirt than removing in this last step.

Also, I've been hitting really long, hard and close with the steam at 45 degrees with no problems but of course do so at your own risk.

madmax

[hearingimpared]

Don't worry about the mess all that steam will make of your cleaner, it looks worse than it is. Actually very little liquid left anywhere once you are done.

I've been cleaning with the normal cleaner first, then steam in both directions, then normal cleaner again. I think I may change the last cleaning to the MFSL pad (the velvet-like one) and see what that does. With the VPI applicator I'm feeling like I may be adding more dirt than removing in this last step.

Also, I've been hitting really long, hard and close with the steam at 45 degrees with no problems but of course do so at your own risk.

madmax

1. For already cleaned records, I was planning on doing the MFSL Super Record wash with the VPI brush, steam it both directions, then use VPI record cleaning fluid with the MFSL brush to finish it off.

2. For used records, I was planning on spraying Vinyl-Zyme Gold and applying with a 4" foam paint brush, then applying MFSL Super Deep Cleaner with the VPI brush. Next MFSL Super Record Wash with the MFSL brush, then steam then finish as stated above.

3. For new sealed records I was planning on doing the same as step two but omitting the Vinyl-Zyme Gold stage.

EDIT: I change the 16.5 vacuum tubes before using the MFSL brush stage.

What do yo think?

[madmax]

Sounds reasonable. Good catch on the vacuum tube, I wasn't thinking about it. I do however have a second tube with no cloth on it which I modified to install upside down. I often vacuum the cloth on the used tube (and the brushes) with it. I should pick up another tube to make life easier.

[hearingimpared]

Sounds reasonable. Good catch on the vacuum tube, I wasn't thinking about it. I do however have a second tube with no cloth on it which I modified to install upside down. I often vacuum the cloth on the used tube (and the brushes) with it. I should pick up another tube to make life easier.

If you buy MFSL brush replacements you can replace the used up or just plain beat velvet on the tube. It is long enough and I believe it is the same material VPI uses on their tubes.

[madmax]

Good idea! I've looked around for a sticky backed fabric and hadn't found any.

[hearingimpared]

Good idea! I've looked around for a sticky backed fabric and hadn't found any.

Elusive Disc has the replacement pads. It comes with two replacement pads which if you are using for just the tubes would give you more replacements then you can possibly use in a lifetime.

However, each replacement fits perfectly on the brush.

[madmax]

I tried using the steamer for cleaning plastic mini blinds today. Pretty crappy performance overall. I think I will stick to vinyl in the future. :)
madmax

[treitz3]

It cleans the toilet like no other. Does a great job on caulk that has turned in color. The caulk that lines the linoleum in my bathroom looks as if were installed yesterday. Whooo-Hoo!

Did I mention it does a damn fine job on LP's? :D

[madmax]

Always good to knock out a few floaters before hitting the grooves. :D

[hearingimpared]

Will it work in lieu of toilet paper?

[schwarcw]

I can understand why the steamer may work better than room temperature water. Basically hot water cleans better as it may "soften" oil or grease based dirt. It will also increase the solubility of dirt. My question is has anyone tried using plain hot water from a pump sprayer? I haven't tried a steamer but I'm wondering if hot water will work just as well.

[SCompRacer]

Carl, I think it all depends on the gunk. I have used 158 degree water to try and loosen cheetos and pizza roll sauce out of old LP grooves. Some gunk just doesn't soften fast enough. Steam works faster to dislodge it.

There are some old threads starting in 2001 at Vinyl Asylum about steaming records. The first time I tried it was with a goodwill LP and a tea pot. LOL Big mistake. You should have seen how fast that LP warped. If flattened as it cooled down, and proves that control and moderation of the steam is important.

[schwarcw]

I have used 158 degree water to try and loosen cheetos and pizza roll sauce out of old LP grooves.

WOW! Must have been a wild party;). Your right about that Rich. But for run of the mill dust, dirt and a little grime maybe hot water or hot cleaning fluid from a spritzer might be just as effective for most uses. I know the machine probably works, it just seems so cumbersome compared to hot water. Just heat a little in the microwave and spray. No worries about being too hot or another piece of equipment to lug out. Of course if the audio enthusiast has a vinyl laundry room with lots of space for towels, machines, fluids, brushes, etc. Then maybe the steam machine is just right.:D

Carl

[SCompRacer]

Carl, correct me if I am wrong but didn't I mention some of the strange things I was doing to clean used vinyl during a landline a couple of momths back? We were discussing goodwill/garage sale finds and the sad condition they can sometimes be found in. I know I said the cheeto/pizza roll thing to you before.

As for myself, I don't wear white gloves when handling vinyl but rest assured the fingers are clean of cheetos and pizza roll sauce. I wipe them on my pants first:D

[madmax]

As for myself, I don't wear white gloves when handling vinyl but rest assured the fingers are clean of cheetos and pizza roll sauce. I wipe them on my pants first:D

I've been known to clean the chicken grease off the side of the platter because the belt was slipping. :o
madmax

[madmax]

I received the "Sunshine Steamer" I posted an ebay link on earlier. It is the same as the "Shark" other than a slightly different color scheme and a bit of a mechanical design on the base. Performs exactly the same and looks to be of the same quality as the Shark. All the parts look interchangeable. Great deal at $40 shipped!
madmax

[hearingimpared]

I'm still waiting for mine . . .

[madmax]

I'm still waiting for mine . . .

:mad::mad::mad: Seems like a long time.
madmax

[treitz3]

What's taking so long Joe? I had an amp shipped to me yesterday and it was delivered this morning. Was there a disclaimer like "please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery"?

[hearingimpared]

Well it didn't arrive today. It's from Overstock.com and is free shipping so I guess they stacked up one of their illegal employees and has him walking it here.

[hearingimpared]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, I can be so retarded!

This Shark has been sitting in my office since December 29th. My wife brought it in from outside and put it in my office. I thought it was something she ordered then I put the Timbre DAC on top of it to take more pictures of it. I just lifted the DAC and there is the Shark.

Dyeeeeee, duh, dyeeeeeeeeee, duh!:o

[madmax]

So, how does it work as a DAC support? :D
madmax

[dee1949]

......doesn't the steam release the crud......then clean with cleaner solution...then vacumn???????

[treitz3]

Softens foreign material / pre-treats LP prior to steam cleaning for a thorough cleaning.

[madmax]

The crud is suspended in the cleaning solution then vacuumed up. Therefore it would seem reasonable that the steam step may come first. However, I've been trying different orders. No real data.

[strider]

Latest process for me has been applying the cleaning solution, steaming, scrubbing, then vacuuming. Results have been positive, but not quite as good as when I had steamed again after scrubbing. I stopped doing this after I may have slightly warped a couple of albums. The albums were new to me Goodwill finds, so the warps may have been there previously. They were also a bit thinner then the other albums I've done. I'm gonna try and find something as thin as those 2, put it on the platter to see if it has warps, then clean as before. Given madmax's experiment with purposefully warping an lp, then having it return to form, I'm thinking I may have overlooked the warp at first.

[madmax]

It seems to me the awesome ticket would be if you could use the cleaner in the steamer. This could be dangerous depending on the cleaner and I would be too afraid to try it. Besides, it may just break up the mixture.
madmax

[treitz3]

I wouldn't want to smell the fumes.

Joe, have you used it yet?

[treitz3]

Gentlemen, here's what I have come up with. I clean my records prior to every use, whether or not they are brand new or not with noticeable improvements nearly every time.

What I do is put the LP's in my NG dual sided cleaning machine, pump until the NG Pure 2 completely covers the grooves and let spin for 15-20 revolutions, vacuum for 5 revolutions.

Taking the pre-heated "Shark" steam cleaner [using distilled water] with a 45 degree tip, I angle the Shark with the direction [vacuum still on] the LP is spinning at a distance of about 3-4" the top and bottom of the LP. I then repeat the same procedure, this time cleaning against the direction the LP is spinning [vacuum still on]. I then let the LP rotate a good twenty times or so until dry, removing the LP while still rotating instead of stopping the LP and giving a chance for any residual material left [on the first part of the felt that hits the LP during rotation] to imprint itself on the LP. I then vacuum the felt on the top and bottom to remove any residual foreign objects with a separate vacuum cleaner after setting the LP on the record player and closing the lid.

After 15 or so minutes, the LP is ready to go. I lift the lid, dip the needle onto a Mr. Magic pad, install the clamp and play away.

After my listening session ends for the day, I take the air compressor and completely blow off all areas on, beneath, around the LP player, close the lid and proceed to blow off the entire rig. After all of the dust settles down, I blow just the platter area once more, just to be sure, and close the lid.

This has been the best method I have come up with using what I currently know about LP cleaning. I feel I don't need a static gun because the LP's look as if they were just pressed, allowed to cool in a dust free chamber and handed to me.

[strider]

What I do is put the LP's in my NG dual sided cleaning machine, pump until the NG Pure 2 completely covers the grooves and let spin for 15-20 revolutions, vacuum for 5 revolutions.

.............


This has been the best method I have come up with using what I currently know about LP cleaning. I feel I don't need a static gun because the LP's look as if they were just pressed, allowed to cool in a dust free chamber and handed to me.

I've always tried to keep the number of revolutions on the vacuum to a minimum for fear of causing static to build up. I'll try some more revolutions next time I listen. Very impressive, and thorough, process, BTW.

[madmax]

I've always tried to keep the number of revolutions on the vacuum to a minimum for fear of causing static to build up.


That does seem like a lot. Mine appear dry after two or three.
madmax

[hearingimpared]

I've been putzing around with this since I got out of the hospital. I've tested 50 plus LPs and I've come up with a spectatcular method of getting your records treated and you only have to do it once. Once done, unless you play your record 20 times a week using ****ty inner sleeves you will find that you only need to give the record a dry spin or an occasional wet/vac on the record cleaning machine.

The first thing I did was to simply augment my record cleaning method by adding the steam cleaning phase to the mix but this did not do.

What I found to be the ultimate in absolutely getting the crude completely out of each groove was to do the following.

1. Apply 10 squirts of Vinyl-Zyme Gold and spreading in on the record by using a four inch foam paint brush. I let it set for anywhere from 30 seconds to one minute depending on the filthy condition of the record.

BTW I did this with all records, used, already treated, new, freshly opened etc.

2. With the turntable (record cleaning turntable) immobile, I sprayed the steam back and fourth aprox four times and then turned on the turntable and let it continue to steam back and forth another two rotations. Distilled water only!!!!

3. I vacuumed the moisture.

4. I applied MFSL Super Deep Record cleaning fluid and scrubbed it in using the VPI brush. After which I used a dedicated vacuum tube to vacuum the record dry.

5. I applied MFSL Super Record Wash, applied it with a an MFSL record cleaning brush and vacuumed the record clean using another vacuum tube different from the first one.

6. I applied VPI record cleaning fluid and applied it with another MFSL recording cleaning brush and vacuumed the record clean using yet another vacuum tube.

7. I flipped the record using a clean and second cork platter mat and repeated steps 1 through six.

I was flabbergasted at the results. Previously crackly and noisy records are now dead quiet, don't get me wrong if there is an imbedded pop or tick, nothing is getting rid of that but what blew me away was that all that noise, the rice krispies with a mike in the bowl was all because of deeply embedded dirt.

I must tell you that I really didn't want to do this!!!! I just want to sit and listen to my music and not have to fart around with the software; however, this only needs to be done once per record and after that vuola!!!

I am also convinced that new records when they come out of the press not only have mold release compounds but tons of other **** that covers the grooves.

You may think me a loon here but I've got to tell you, it is worth having to do this once per LP to realize the glorious sounds that is actually held in those tiny grooves.

Now you can do away with all the other fluids (as a matter of fact, I have two large bottles of Tergitol that I am waiting to use after using up all the MFSL fluid I have) however I strongly recommend that you do not skip the step where you apply the Vinyl-Zyme Gold to the record before steaming it. This loosens and the enzymes eat the crude that in is the groove before the steam actually blows it away.

The main things I noticed were; an increase in stereo separation, startling bloom and decay of vocals, cymbals, and other startling surprising instruments. The bass rumble and growl is more pronounced. The air between instruments and vocals is startling. I can add much more but you won't believe me until you hear it for yourself.

[jm1]

Glad to see you are well enough to experiment and post your thoughts. I will order a bottle of enzyme cleaner and try adding this to the process.

I also am trying the best nylon bristle paint brush I could purchase to reach down into the groves during the Tergitol clean. I have shortened the bristles and have only tried a couple of records, but it looks like it will be better than any of the other brushes. Others mention to hold it at a 45 degree angle in order to further clean the record.

I have been sorting and collecting more records these past few weeks and will post later on this.

Glad you are not hearing the record surface.

JM

[hearingimpared]

Here is my procedure for cleaning records;

First the ingredients;

1. Bugtussel Vinyl-Zyme Gold Extra Strength (VZG) (buy the concentrate that makes 4 gallons and just make one gallon using distilled water), keep the practical spray bottle and refill as necessary.
2. MFSL Super Deep Record Cleaning fluid (SDC) (or any fluid that removes mold release and other mold compounds)
3. MFSL Super Deep Record Wash (SDW) or the Tergitol mixture
4. VPI Record Cleaning fluid (VCF) (use the concentrate that makes one gallon using distilled water)

Equipment;

VPI 16.5, spare cork mat, three vacuum tubes marked 1, 2, 3 with permanent ink, three-4” foam paint brushes, one VPI scrub brush, one MFSL scrub brush, steaming machine using distilled or tripled distilled water.

Use this method for ALL used records whether you are the previous owner or not.
1. With the record mounted on the 16.5 side 1 down, spray side 2 around the record with 10 good squirts of the VZG. Turn on TT and lightly apply the fluid evenly by pressing gently and evenly with a 4” foam paint brush. This is usually accomplished in two spins.
2. Wait 30 seconds to one minute.
3. Add a thin line or small amount of SDC.
4. Using the VPI scrub brush scrub both fluids into the grooves, two to three rotations should do it.
5. Take steamer and in a left to right motion going counter clockwise on the record evenly steam the record twice. Then turn on the turntable and repeat except this time you are going to have to move a bit faster another two rotations.
6. Vacuum the record using tube 1 until completely dry.
7. Place a line or small amount of SDW and scrub into the record using the MFSL brush for three rotations.
8. Vacuum using tube 2 until dry.
9. Repeat steps 7 & 8 with the VPI fluid also using the MFSL brush, vacuum using tube 3. The VPI fluid is very clear and leaves no residue and does a great job of a final rinse.

Now remove the record from the machine, place the spare cork mat down and place side two down. Repeat steps 1 through 9 above.

If you are cleaning a new, sealed record you may skip step one.

If you are going to clean a particularly dirty or moldy LP cut a piece of wax paper the size of the cork mat and lay that down on the adhered cork mat to avoid spreading the cancerous mold onto other records.

Using this method, you will find that your stylus is touching nothing but groove when it is playing through a record.

If you don't have a VPI 16.5 cleaning machine, improvise.


Thanks,
Joe

[dorokusai]

Exactly why I don't bother with vinyl.

[hearingimpared]

Exactly why I don't bother with vinyl.

Cause it sounds so good?

[madmax]

Reel to reel is easier.
madmax

[dorokusai]

Cause it sounds so good?

If it helps you sleep at night, yes.

Max - I like R2R media much better but even the underground sources for music aren't as varied as vinyl. Oh well.

[madmax]

As proven by Ken, R2R can sound as good as the best vinyl.

[TroyD]

I picked up a Shark a few days ago, I'm still dicking with it but, so far, so good!!

BDT

[del44]

Since I don't have a ton of vinyl, I made a diy vacumn for my albums. I use the crevice tool from my vacumn cleaner. It attaches to the hose on the vac. I cut a slot in it, used some 2 sided tape to hold a piece of velvet. I made up a solution of 3 parts distilled water 1 part iso alcohol and a drop of Dawn dishwashing liquid. I put the ingredients into a spray bottle. I am using an old tt to spin the vinyl on. As I spin, I spray the solution an the record. Then I use a sponge type of brush to spead the fluid out evenly. Wait a minute then vacumn off the residue. I use another spray bottle with just distilled water in it for a rinse, and vacumn it off. After it has dried I use a brush on it. Seems to do a good job.:D Here's a pic of the tool.


http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j190/yarled2u/DSC00776.jpg

[hearingimpared]

Cool!

[madmax]

Now that is what I call innovative!
madmax

[TroyD]

Just as an update, I've been dicking with this steamer for a couple of days now.

My process is not NEARLY as involved as HI's ;)

Simply I steam, scrub, vacuum, scrub again with tergitol solution, vacuum, steam again w/ MFSL brush, vacuum....put on Table, hit with Hunt brush...play.

Results have been nothing short of fantastic. I have a few Sinatra LP's that I had written off and they are now good as new. Same with a couple Paraphone Beatles LP's I brought back from New Zealand.

BDT

[strider]

I've been doing an ammended version of Joe's routine with my best results yet.

Enough Mofi Super Deep cleaner to cover the side, spread with a foam brush. Steam after a minute or so, dependent upon condition, then scrub. Steam again then vacuum. Do this for each side, then apply the Record Wash with another foam brush, scrub, and vacuum.

Troy- would you mind describing what your tergitol soultion consists of? Thanks, Ben.


Simply I steam, scrub, vacuum, scrub again with tergitol solution, vacuum, steam again w/ MFSL brush, vacuum....put on Table, hit with Hunt brush...play.

BDT

[jm1]

Troy- would you mind describing what your tergitol soultion consists of?

I have mentioned Tergitol in this (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=589259&postcount=13) post. It is also referenced in the initial post of this thread.

[strider]

I have mentioned Tergitol in this (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=589259&postcount=13) post. It is also referenced in the initial post of this thread.

Thanks, I'd seen that you mentioned using the recipe described at the collectionscanada site at the beginning of this thread. I admit that I missed the thread you pointed out, but I believe that to be because I searched for the word "tergitol", which wasn't mentioned in the post.

My curiosity has been driven by the Library of Congress' recommended cleaning method, which uses the 15-S-7 tergitol vs both the 15-S-3 and S-9 tergitols used in the recipe linked to in the first post. I've found an art supply site that sells 200mL containers of tergitol for approx $43. If I could get away with one bottle instead of 2, I'd be very happy; I could be described as thrifty.:)

Thanks, too, for all your posts regarding vinyl care. They've been most helpful to someone in the beginning steps of his vinyl journey.

Ben

[jm1]

Yes, I knew I referenced the information in the other thread. I will add a key word to the post.

For that price, I would order one pint each of 15-s-3 and 15-s-9 and have enough Tergitol to clean records for the rest of your life.


200 ml = 0.422675284 US pints

[MillerLiteScott]

Could someone tell me the proper way to use the tergitol cleaning solutions. I have the 3 and the 9 mixed in 6.75oz batches. I have the KAB RCM, a MFSL brush and and a steam cleaner.

I tried the tergitol the other night and it work pretty well but I don't think I did it right. I did substitute a final steaming using distilled water instead of a rinse with distilled water followed by a vacuuming.

[treitz3]

I just sent this to HI in a pm and got to thinking I should have posted it here for all because it is relatively interesting, silly as it sounds. So here it is:

"I did an interesting clean last night with a clear red lp. I was sitting there looking through it at the tv screen. I was noticing that there was no dirty looking garbage on it, very nice looking. While looking through the ending groove where there were no grooves I could see the tv picture clearly (red of course). Through the grooves it was a pretty distorted looking picture but I could pretty easily make it out. I cleaned it in my normal fashion and it still looked about the same. Then I steam cleaned it. I could clearly see the picture now through the grooves. Don't ask why I sit around and do stuff like this, I just do. Now I'm wishing I had tried to take some pictures through it before and after."

Do you still have the album?

[madmax]

Do you still have the album?

I haven't thrown any away lately. :D

However I don't remember which one it was. I remember I was hitting the dixieland albums pretty hard at that time so it shouldn't be too hard to locate. Then again, right now my 3000 lps are all mixed up in storage boxes in some unknown storage location somewhere between MD and CO, hopefully. :eek:
madmax

[MillerLiteScott]

Could someone tell me the proper way to use the tergitol cleaning solutions. I have the 3 and the 9 mixed in 6.75oz batches. I have the KAB RCM, a MFSL brush and and a steam cleaner.

I tried the tergitol the other night and it work pretty well but I don't think I did it right. I did substitute a final steaming using distilled water instead of a rinse with distilled water followed by a vacuuming.

Can anyone explain how they use Tergitol in their cleaning routine?

[ben62670]

This sucks. I just got into vinyl, and now this! Well I have a pressure cooker, and some hose. Guess whats next! There is a cheap like new TT on Craig's list $20. Time to get innovative. I post pics. Damn Damn Damn!

[treitz3]

Sorry Ben. It does make a world of difference though. If I can make it down, I'll bring "the kit" as well as Joe's clamp so you can hear the difference for yourself.

[ben62670]

It sure would be nice if you could. You can crash here too. Hows the 9th looking. It seems the best.
Ben

[madmax]

This sucks. I just got into vinyl, and now this! Well I have a pressure cooker, and some hose. Guess whats next! There is a cheap like new TT on Craig's list $20. Time to get innovative. I post pics. Damn Damn Damn!

Ben, this is cheap and effective. Nothing else in the vinyl world (except buying the actual vinyl) is. Go to your local BB&B (or ebay) and pick up a good steamer. I even bought a spare given the performance to price ratio of this option.
madmax

[Fongolio]

MillerLiteScott, I use a nitty gritty with fluid injection but even without a machine the routine would be similar. I have my tergitol 3 and 9 in the same container. I have a little dry only record vacumn that I use first to get the dust off the lp. Then I soak the nitty gritty vac-sweeps manually with the tergitol and spin the record with no vacumn on. I let it spin and clean the one side probably at least 8 revolutions more if really grundgy record. Then I vac off the tergitol and repeat on the other side of the record. Then I rinse with reverse osmosis water (or distilled) and vacumn again. If super grungified I repeat this process at least once maybe twice. The most important step is rinse and dry. Tergitol leaves residue that can be heard. I've played with steam cleaning but not enough to have a routine for it yet. Hope this helps.

[MillerLiteScott]

Thanks Fongolio,

The following was my first attempt with the Tergitol.

I mixed the 3 and the 9 in different bottles. I put the LP on my RCM and started with the 3 tergitol ( Why because 3 comes before 9) I spread it with a foam brush to get even coverage. I used the scrubbing brush that came with the RCM to scrub the LP and the I put the 9 on the LP and the spread it around with the foam brush and the scrubed the LP again. I then gave the record a steaming. I flipped it over to vacuum it. I flip it back over and used my steamer to steam/rinse (again) the LP and then vacuumed it for the final time and let it air dry for a little while before I played it.

Scott

[Fongolio]

I have some thrift store finds that I'll have to try steaming on. Very few scratches but really dirty. I find some records play great after deep cleaning but still appear to have stains if held under a light a certain way. I've even had brand new ones look like this. They play fine though. Anyone else have this observation?

[ben62670]

What about damage to the labels? I have not noticed any mention of this.
Ben

[strider]

I use a pint soup container from Chinese take out to cover the label while I'm steaming. Works pretty well.

[reeltrouble1]

Can anyone explain how they use Tergitol in their cleaning routine?

You mix a couple teaspoons of each tergitol solution in a gallon of distilled/osmosis water, you can take a small bit of the water out of the gallon so you can shake it to mix it up. Put some in a squirt bottle to put the solution on the record, practice will tell you how much, then spread it out nicey nice with a brush, I use a VPI that came with my 16.5, I then use the Mofi brush to work the solution and clean the record, then I vacuum it off and rinse the record with distilled water which I then vacuum off, then I use a nice Stanton curved dry brush to remove any left over dampness this will also let you know if you missed anything as it will pull dirt from the grooves if it is there. Then I put the damm thing on the TT, clamp it and hit it one more time with a Hunt brush.

BTW you need a stout plastic bottle to store your gallon solution, the tergitol will eventually sweat through those cheap milk gallon plastic bottles and leave you with a mess, make sure you mark the container as poison.

The steam cleaning is something to do before you do the tergitol cleaning.

RT1

[MillerLiteScott]

My question is about how to use the number 3 tergitol and the number 9 Tergitol.

I have them mixed in different bottles.

I have been steaming the record, Vacuum, spread and scrub with 3 tergitol and the spreading and scrubbing number 9 Tergitol, vacuum again, steam with distilled water and vacuum again then let air dry. Clamp it on the TT and clean again with a carbon brush.

Scott

[Fongolio]

It's ok to mix the tergitols together. Saves a step in cleaning. However, many times I clean more than once on very dirty LP's.

[reeltrouble1]

well I mix them with the water, are you saying you use straight tergitol. 100 proof. I know several others here who mix with the water.

RT1

[shack]

I have them mixed in different bottles.

I have been steaming the record, Vacuum, spread and scrub with 3 tergitol and the spreading and scrubbing number 9 Tergitol, vacuum again, steam with distilled water and vacuum again then let air dry. Clamp it on the TT and clean again with a carbon brush.

Scott

I prefer to deal with the occasional pop and click than to spend that much time cleaning. :rolleyes:

A quick clean (wet scrub and vacuum) once I get the LP, back in the sleeve then a quick brush before I drop the arm.

[MillerLiteScott]

Shack,

I only do it for the first time I play a record. After that they are as clean as new.

RT1 I have my tergitol mixed separately with water to a 400:1 ratio in small 6.75 oz. batch at a time.

[shack]

Shack,

I only do it for the first time I play a record. After that they are as clean as new.

I'm not spending that much time the FIRST time. But that's just me.

[hearingimpared]

With used records I do a similar job cleaning the LPs as Scott. New records get one less step.

Steve I have records that are over 35 years old that don't or nearly don't have a click or pop because I took the time, the first time, to make sure they were in pristine condition. After that it is mostly a dry brush unless it is a particularly staticy day then I'll give it a spin on the 16.5.

But as we all know I am obsessive/compulsive!:eek:

[ben62670]

But as we all know I am obsessive/compulsive!:eek:

I don't believe it!

[shack]

I have several hundred (maybe up to 1,000) LPs...with a few actually purchased by me over 40 years ago. I hardly have the time to listen to them, much less spend the amount of time some of you guys do to clean them. Again...a quick wet cleaning, vacuum and it either goes back into the sleeve or on the table. A quick brush before the arm drops and I'm done. I enjoy the music...not the ritual (I know it has some sonic value) of meticulously cleaning LPs.

Then again I am anything but obsessive/compulsive!

Too many other hobbies contributes to this as well. I'd rather be watching a movie, playing golf, taking photographs or tinkering with my cars than cleaning vinyl. ;)

[jimbo1421]

Can anyone recommend a hand held steamer for less than $50? The ones mentioned in this old thread are no longer made. I would hope that I would be able to refill it without a cool down period and that it doesn't spit.

Jim

[hearingimpared]

Can anyone recommend a hand held steamer for less than $50? The ones mentioned in this old thread are no longer made. I would hope that I would be able to refill it without a cool down period and that it doesn't spit.

Jim

WOW, they really went up in price since I bought mine. FYI I bought mine as a refurb which was a mistake because it did spit. Good luck finding one for under $50. I looked around a bit and couldn't find any. I keep looking for you, maybe the two of us searching will find one.:)

[Keiko]

Little more, but check this Wagner out. I stumbled across this awhile back and got it on my wish list. Might be overkill just for vinyl, but I'm thinking of other uses too.

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-500-Watt-Demand-Steamer-Cleaner/dp/B000I618NY

[jimbo1421]

Little more, but check this Wagner out. I stumbled across this awhile back and got it on my wish list. Might be overkill just for vinyl, but I'm thinking of other uses too.

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-500-Watt-Demand-Steamer-Cleaner/dp/B000I618NY

If I had a wife she could use it for all that other stuff. :D

Jim

[jimbo1421]

WOW, they really went up in price since I bought mine. FYI I bought mine as a refurb which was a mistake because it did spit. Good luck finding one for under $50. I looked around a bit and couldn't find any. I keep looking for you, maybe the two of us searching will find one.:)

I found the cheapies, I just don't trust the Amazon reviewers' positive reviews. I think they are salted.

Jim

[Keiko]

If I had a wife she could use it for all that other stuff. :D

Jim

I'm thinking more manly stuff, like cleaning the rims on my truck and using it on the BBQ. ;)

[hearingimpared]

Little more, but check this Wagner out. I stumbled across this awhile back and got it on my wish list. Might be overkill just for vinyl, but I'm thinking of other uses too.

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-500-Watt-Demand-Steamer-Cleaner/dp/B000I618NY

That thing looks like it could blow a whole right through an LP!:eek:

[Keiko]

That thing looks like it could blow a whole right through an LP!:eek:

Took care of that surface noise. :D :p

[jm1]

Some time ago before trialing steam powered cleaning, I had come across another method of cleaning LPs. My intentions had always been to revisit this method to determine its effectiveness. I had not anticipated such a long wait, but now have trialed cleaning LPs by immersion in an ultrasonic bath.

While steam provided an adequate method of helping to dislodge contaminants from the LP surface, ultrasonic cleaning provides better results with only distilled water as the solvent. A vacuum based RCM was used to remove the solvent immediately followed by a rinse using ultra pure water and another RCM vacuum.

LPs plays quieter than pre-ultrasonic cleaning. There was also a slight reduction in the noise from contaminants previously embedded into the grove walls.

The next phase will be to augment the solvent to induce better results. Further trials will be conducted using an immersed brush to see if additional contaminants can be dislodged from the grove walls.

My steamer will now be retired from active use as it has served its purpose.

[madmax]

I like all the drama and excitement of using steam!

[treitz3]

What are you using as the US cleaner?

[treitz3]

Hey, I did run across this when researching on ultrasonic LP cleaning. I do not know if it is fact or not so take it with a grain of salt but I thought I'd throw it out there for the sake of discussion.

"Be very careful, the ultrasonic cleaning process is very harsh. It works by creating tiny bubbles (cavitation) which scrub any loose particles away.

The problem is that as the bubbles collapse, they deposit a lot of energy in a small area, and damage the surface. I know people who used it to prepare the surface of optics for vacuum coating. The surfaces looked very clean, both with the naked eye and under a microscope, but the films grew very poorly with many defects. Examining the surface with an electron microscope showed that the ultrasonic cleaning had produced lots of tiny damage zones, which were smaller than a wavelength of light, and so invisible in a conventional microscope, and these defects spoilt the subsequent deposition of films.

This is not directly relevant to cleaning vinyl, but is a warning that it is a harsh process that can easily damage many materials.

Experiment on easily replaceable records before risking any favorites."

[Polkersince85]

^^ I'm pretty sure a carbon fiber brush does less damage.:rolleyes:

[madmax]

Its fun to try different things but my process became stable when I found the VPI which is "good enough" for my needs. Still like spraying the steam sometimes though.
madmax

[treitz3]

The steam and the dual sided NG are both a damn fine combo but I must admit, I'm optimistically [and cautiously] curious about the ultrasonic aspect.

[jm1]

Hey, I did run across this when researching on ultrasonic LP cleaning. I do not know if it is fact or not so take it with a grain of salt but I thought I'd throw it out there for the sake of discussion.

"Be very careful, the ultrasonic cleaning process is very harsh. It works by creating tiny bubbles (cavitation) which scrub any loose particles away.

The problem is that as the bubbles collapse, they deposit a lot of energy in a small area, and damage the surface. I know people who used it to prepare the surface of optics for vacuum coating. The surfaces looked very clean, both with the naked eye and under a microscope, but the films grew very poorly with many defects. Examining the surface with an electron microscope showed that the ultrasonic cleaning had produced lots of tiny damage zones, which were smaller than a wavelength of light, and so invisible in a conventional microscope, and these defects spoilt the subsequent deposition of films.

This is not directly relevant to cleaning vinyl, but is a warning that it is a harsh process that can easily damage many materials.

Experiment on easily replaceable records before risking any favorites."

I saw this when I was researching. I wonder which applies more (destructive) energy to the LP grove: dragging a diamond stylus @ 1.8g or cavitation?

Anyways, I finally tested more LPs. Cleaning with just water as the solvent provides great results. Adding about 1oz of detergent (The Disc Doctor's Miracle Record Cleaner) was even better. A used LP (may have never been played?) had zero tick/pops with barely audible surface noise on the side I listened to.

With the initial results I am achieving, I will not willingly revert to cleaning with steam/brushes again. This is a waste of time compared to ultrasonic cleaning.

I have a 6.5 liter, 3 transducer unit with a 300mm wide opening. This just fits an LP suspended across the top. Perfect.

Next phase is to automate rotating the LP @ 1 RPM then finally open all the Led Zep reissues.

Regards.

[Keiko]

I like to use the Steam Shark on used records. New, unnecessary. I use the MoFi and VPI cleaning solutions and rinse with purified water/vac as my last step. Works great for me.

[treitz3]

I have a 6.5 liter, 3 transducer unit with a 300mm wide opening. This just fits an LP suspended across the top. Perfect.Hello and thanks for responding. I am very interested in trying this out but I am having the damnedest time trying to find something that doesn't cost into the thousands of dollars. Would you be so kind as to show me what or where you got your unit, please?

[jm1]

I like to use the Steam Shark on used records. New, unnecessary. I use the MoFi and VPI cleaning solutions and rinse with purified water/vac as my last step. Works great for me.

Previously, I steamed and used MoFi enzyme solution followed with an ultra pure water rinse.

The ultrasonic cleaning produces better results with less effort. Next batch of solvent for the ultrasonic bath will get a shot of the MoFi solution as the detergent.

[jm1]

Hello and thanks for responding. I am very interested in trying this out but I am having the damnedest time trying to find something that doesn't cost into the thousands of dollars. Would you be so kind as to show me what or where you got your unit, please?

Not sure what you are looking at, but something like this would work.

SHARPERTEK (http://www.sterlingtime.com/consonjewbat.html)

A 6 liter unit should cost between $300 - $500 depending on who you purchase it from and digital/analog time/temp controls.

As I am "experimenting", I found a unit with an analog timer/temp controls for $250 on Amazon.

[treitz3]

Thanks. Yeah, apparently I was looking in the wrong places. Could you clarify a bit? The one you linked has a built in heater, didn't see anything about a timer but that's not a big deal....I guess my question is.....do you need/are you using a separate heater/timing device or no?

[Keiko]

Hmmm, definitely a cheaper alternative to the pricier RCMs, but I'm already invested in an HW17. It's an awesome machine and pretty much does all the work.

hearingimpared turned me onto this enzyme cleaner and it produces good results. A bottle of concentrate makes a gallon of extra strength, or you can mix it to 4 gallons of regular strength.

http://www.smartdevicesinc.com/buggtussel.html

[treitz3]

Never mind, I see that it does include a timer and a heater. Thanks.

[jm1]

Hmmm, definitely a cheaper alternative to the pricier RCMs, but I'm already invested in an HW17. It's an awesome machine and pretty much does all the work.

hearingimpared turned me onto this enzyme cleaner and it produces good results. A bottle of concentrate makes a gallon of extra strength, or you can mix it to 4 gallons of regular strength.

http://www.smartdevicesinc.com/buggtussel.html

Have a bottle of that stuff as well.

Let me clarify; my HW-16.5 is still a vital part of the process as it removes the ultrasonic bath solution and the water rinse. I will NOT be omitting/removing this step from the cleaning process at any time in the future. The two cleaning machines complement each other. One does not replace the other.