Car Advice

[appadv]

Well - my dad is looking to buy a new car and basically has narrowed his choice down to the Toyota Camry Hybrid and the Nissan Altima Hybrid.

a) Which car would you guys recommend?

b) Since hybrids' forte is their city gas mileage, being that most of the driving will be done in the city, will a hybrid be a good choice?

[shawn474]

Hybrids are actually better in the start and stop style of driving that cities offer. As for which one, I would recommend the Camry as Toyota is the frontrunner in the hybrid technology (at least had been for the past few years with Honda) and very reliable. I don't think I'll ever buy a non-Toyota / Honda car again.

Shawn

[66chevyIISS]

I don't know if I would buy a hybrid. If you want to help save the environment then great, but if your sole purpose is to save $ on gas then it's not the best option depending on how long you will keep it. The base Hybrid costs $6600 more then the base regular Camry. You wouldn't break even on gas savings until about 70Kmiles. The Avg person gets a new car every 5 years. The avg miles per year is 12,000. That puts you at 60,000 miles and you haven't saved any money yet.

Also have you priced the Batteries on Hybrids? I was told they cost somewhere around $6,000 to replace.

[appadv]

Yes, I'd like to help save the environment and also promote the new technology. I see it as an investment in hybrid technology.

Also - we never keep cars for less than 10 years. So the gas savings are a big plus, especially since we live in the city.

[Bill Ayotte]

F the hybrid. The first time you have to replace the batteries you will want to kill yourself. I would look into a diesel of some kind, like a Jetta TDI. I don't know about the Toyota batteries specifically, but I do know from a good friend that a set of batteries for a Lexus is about $4000 every three-four years....The city mileage on a TDI in around 40+.....Highway is almost 50...

[John in MA]

At the present level of technology hybrids are more of a design exercise than a practical green vehicle. Just think of all the crap that goes into making one of those huge batteries and all the electronic controls. I gather a more traditional vehicle will have a lower environmental impact and longer service life over time.

[appadv]

F the hybrid. The first time you have to replace the batteries you will want to kill yourself. I would look into a diesel of some kind, like a Jetta TDI. I don't know about the Toyota batteries specifically, but I do know from a good friend that a set of batteries for a Lexus is about $4000 every three-four years....The city mileage on a TDI in around 40+.....Highway is almost 50...

I'd like to, but we don't have too many diesel stations in NYC. I am also aware that the batteries will cost a lot of money, but driving around in the stop and go traffic of the city with a gasoline engine costs a lot of money too. A hybrid would be able to turn off the gasoline engine and run off the electric motor in the city.

[Bill Ayotte]

I'd like to, but we don't have too many diesel stations in NYC. I am also aware that the batteries will cost a lot of money, but driving around in the stop and go traffic of the city with a gasoline engine costs a lot of money too. A hybrid would be able to turn off the gasoline engine and run off the electric motor in the city.

Theoretically at least....When those batteries get low, the gas starts a-flow-in....I think sitting in traffic in NYC would do it....It would most likely wear out the batteries sooner as well, causing additional ass pain. I would rather hunt for diesel than replace batteries to the tune of $4000 a shot.

[appadv]

Theoretically at least....When those batteries get low, the gas starts a-flow-in....I think sitting in traffic in NYC would do it....It would most likely wear out the batteries sooner as well, causing additional ass pain. I would rather hunt for diesel than replace batteries to the tune of $4000 a shot.

Maybe a regular Camry then? It's just so hard to find diesel around here.

[Bill Ayotte]

Maybe a regular Camry then? It's just so hard to find diesel around here.

A regular Camry, maybe something else in that price range....The new Accord looks mighty nice, and I will admit I am biased towards VW, but the Jetta/Passats aren't out of the question either...

[appadv]

A regular Camry, maybe something else in that price range....The new Accord looks mighty nice, and I will admit I am biased towards VW, but the Jetta/Passats aren't out of the question either...

The only thing is that the regular V6 Camry gets 19mpg in the city, and the Nissan Altima Hybrid gets 35mpg in the city - almost double that of the Camry. Since most of the driving will be city driving, will you still lose money with the hybrid?

[shawn474]

I have the 4 cylinder Camry and absolutely love it. Got it in August 2004 and have over 85,000 miles. Only replaced brakes, tires and performed regular oil changes. I looked at the V6, but the price increase did not justify the performance. I have a manual 4 cylinder and it has enough "pop" for me not to want the V6.

Shawn

[Bill Ayotte]

The question becomes will the money you save on gas outweigh the cost of replacing the batteries every two-four years? To be perfectly honest, who knows what kind of electrical problems this thing could have 5 or 6 years down the road? They haven't been around that long, and the technology is constantly evolving at this point....Who really knows at this point if these things could become an electrical shitstorm....

[appadv]

I have the 4 cylinder Camry and absolutely love it. Got it in August 2004 and have over 85,000 miles. Only replaced brakes, tires and performed regular oil changes. I looked at the V6, but the price increase did not justify the performance. I have a manual 4 cylinder and it has enough "pop" for me not to want the V6.

Shawn

Oh no, I didn't mean that the 4 cylinder isn't good, I was just using the V6 for comparative purposes.

[appadv]

The question becomes will the money you save on gas outweigh the cost of replacing the batteries every two-four years? To be perfectly honest, who knows what kind of electrical problems this thing could have 5 or 6 years down the road? They haven't been around that long, and the technology is constantly evolving at this point....Who really knows at this point if these things could become an electrical shitstorm....

I don't know, but it seems like you will save a lot of money on gas when you are doing mostly city driving. Now will that outweigh the cost of owning a hybrid? Not sure.

But I like the fact that hybrids are good for the environment and I like new technology.

[Bill Ayotte]

I see it this way; if you can afford it and are aware of the problems that can come, go for it. Keep in mind that a 6.0L GTO gets 25 city if you drive like an old man....

[appadv]

I see it this way; if you can afford it and are aware of the problems that can come, go for it. Keep in mind that a 6.0L GTO gets 25 city if you drive like an old man....

I'm not sure about what problems might come up, as I don't know much about hybrids and the technology. However, Consumer Reports stated that the Toyota Prius was "exceptionally reliable" last year in their annual car survey.

What should I watch out for?

[Bill Ayotte]

I really don't know, but I would think that they have the potential to become an electrical hellhole when the mileage starts to pile up...The main reason I am so weary of a hybrid is because it is so new, there aren't many hi mileage examples to really see what happens to them, and what the ongoing cost is to keep them running....I really think 5-10 years from now they will be obsolete as well, as technology progresses.

[Poee7R]

I may be wrong but i seem to remember somewhere saying something about the pollutants made by the factory that makes the batteries were as bad if not worse than the projected amount that a car would create over it's lifespan.

I may be off and i cant remember where but i believe there was a debate on this here or somewhere else.

And yes i know i probably didnt help much, but thought i should throw that out there.


Dave

[Bill Ayotte]

I may be wrong but i seem to remember somewhere saying something about the pollutants made by the factory that makes the batteries were as bad if not worse than the projected amount that a car would create over it's lifespan.

I may be off and i cant remember where but i believe there was a debate on this here or somewhere else.

And yes i know i probably didnt help much, but thought i should throw that out there.


Dave

That is actually a good point, and what happens to the batteries after they go bad and are replaced?

[appadv]

That is a good point. But I'd think they would be recycled like most sealed lead-acid batteries and rechargeable batteries.

[Bill Ayotte]

I would think so too, but it would be interesting to look into...We all know there are some lees than honest service shops out there....

[appadv]

I would think so too, but it would be interesting to look into...We all know there are some lees than honest service shops out there....

Sure, I can see that might be the case. But they should be recycled.

Anyways, I'm still thinking if the nearly 2:1 ratio of a hybrid's city gas mileage is worth the extra cost (and maybe hassles down the road).

All I know for sure is that in large, crowded cities hybrids get the BEST gas mileage.

[Poee7R]

Unless you mind rolling on two wheels. :D


Dave

[Jstas]

You want to save money on gas? Get a Suzuki Swift from the mid 90's rated 45-50 MPG. I knew peopel with actual mileage numbers closer to 60 MPG.

[Bill Ayotte]

You want to save money on gas? Get a Suzuki Swift from the mid 90's rated 45-50 MPG. I knew peopel with actual mileage numbers closer to 60 MPG.

Same with a Geo metro.....Maybe you could have a commuter and rock the nice car on the weekends....

[shadowofnight]

Maybe a regular Camry then? It's just so hard to find diesel around here.


I talked my dad out of a hybrid at this moment in time....for most of the reasons mentioned already in this thread...he got the Camry 4 banger and loves it.

Me, I came from a 4 banger ( Toyota 4x4 ) that lasted me almost 200K and still ran great when I sold it....to my new V8...hybrids better get a whole lot better for me to give up this power.

[treitz3]

Ride a bike if you are concerned about saving dough and going green.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Your Dad must need a fleet of vehicles

trucks, jeeps, cars

Yet, as you have mentioned before --

Taxi's and trains are where its at..

I'm just saying...

[treitz3]

What about the new H2o car?

[brettw22]

Someone needs to check their numbers on teh warranty of the batteries on Hybrids. I remember hearing they were warrantied up to 100k miles.

I could be wrong on this, but I think replacement of the batteries is also a tax deductible thing with as gung ho the govt is about people supporting the technology......

[Danny Tse]

Someone needs to check their numbers on teh warranty of the batteries on Hybrids. I remember hearing they were warrantied up to 100k miles.

I could be wrong on this, but I think replacement of the batteries is also a tax deductible thing with as gung ho the govt is about people supporting the technology......

Here in California, the Prius' batteries are warrantied for 10 years/150,000 miles (whichever comes first) by Toyota. I know that this warranty varies from state to state. Also, the Camry Hybrid's battery warranty may differ from that of the Prius.

Generally there's also a tax credit towards the purchase of a hybrid. Again, this varies from model to model.

[appadv]

Your Dad must need a fleet of vehicles

trucks, jeeps, cars

Yet, as you have mentioned before --

Taxi's and trains are where its at..

I'm just saying...

Do you even read the other threads? "A landscaper friend of mine is looking for a truck..."

[Fireman32]

My vote is for the Toyota Yaris. it is not a hybrid but get 36 city 40 hwy and it quite comfortable and not expensive. I have had mine for a year and a half and I love it. With my short commute i get gas once a month.

[Pablo]

I'm really not big on the hybrids myself. It's a good concept, but I think it's more of a marketing thing than anything else. They really don't get the mileage they claim, and the environmental impact of creating and disposing of the batteries is no better than (if not worse than) a little four banger.

Honda just announced that their fuel cell vehicle will be available to the public next summer. Now we're starting to get somewhere.

[appadv]

I'm really not big on the hybrids myself. It's a good concept, but I think it's more of a marketing thing than anything else. They really don't get the mileage they claim, and the environmental impact of creating and disposing of the batteries is no better than (if not worse than) a little four banger.

Honda just announced that their fuel cell vehicle will be available to the public next summer. Now we're starting to get somewhere.

I didn't know that. However, Toyota claims the Prius' city mileage to be 48 miles per gallon, and I have a friend at school who drives a Prius and gets 55 MPG!

[Kex]

Everyone should be buying the BMW Hydrogen 7: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/09/12/more-photos-of-the-bmw-hydrogen-7/

Seriously though! I think you definitely want a 4 cylinder for city driving if you don't get a hybrid. Why not even a Smart if they have them in NYC? I also love those VW turbo-diesels: so much torque they are even better to drive than the gas powered equivalent model.

[appadv]

Everyone should be buying the BMW Hydrogen 7: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/09/12/more-photos-of-the-bmw-hydrogen-7/

Seriously though! I think you definitely want a 4 cylinder for city driving if you don't get a hybrid. Why not even a Smart if they have them in NYC? I also love those VW turbo-diesels: so much torque they are even better to drive than the gas powered equivalent model.

Yes, a Smart! I was thinking about those!

My mom/dad asked me about the Smart car the other day - is it a good option?

[Kex]

... My mom/dad asked me about the Smart car the other day - is it a good option?
I've seen them here in L.A. but haven't tried one yet. I think they only have two seats, so you can't carry the kids around for example. That aspect almost doomed them as a second car option in Europe (compared to 1.4L and 1.6L fuel efficient VW Golf options for example, that we aren't even offered here).

Here's a website: http://www.smartusa.com/

I'll try and have a look, just for fun, within the next month, but it wouldn't make sense for us to change our 5 year old Golf just yet ... You'ld have to see how it measures up to the reputedly excellent Yaris and Versa.

[appadv]

I've seen them here in L.A. but haven't tried one yet. I think they only have two seats, so you can't carry the kids around for example. That aspect almost doomed them as a second car option in Europe (compared to 1.4L and 1.6L fuel efficient VW Golf options for example, that we aren't even offered here).

Here's a website: http://www.smartusa.com/

I'll try and have a look, just for fun, within the next month, but it wouldn't make sense for us to change our 5 year old Golf just yet ... You'ld have to see how it measures up to the reputedly excellent Yaris and Versa.

Thanks.

A Smart Fortwo would be very practical for a city like NYC. Or something like a Toyota Yaris which is also another option.

[jdhdiggs]

I would go for the Yaris over the smartcar. The only advantage to the smart is that it's easier to park. The Yaris is very close in mpg and is a lot more car.

[appadv]

I would go for the Yaris over the smartcar. The only advantage to the smart is that it's easier to park. The Yaris is very close in mpg and is a lot more car.

Also - would you recommend two-door or four-door Yaris? Which would have the more "bang for the buck"?

[jdhdiggs]

Depends on your needs. The 2 door looks nicer IMHO, but if you have a small family or go out with more than 2 additional people frequently, I'd go 4 door.

[Fireman32]

I have the 4 door in black. I personally did not like the 3 door but that i my opinion. The trunk space is huge on the 4 door and the rear seats fold down as well. I average right around 40 mpg with my daily driving. I have not had any problems with them. When I took it to get the oil changed on it the other day the salesman told me that they cant keep them in stock because there being bought so fast.

[ohskigod]

needs notwithstanding, test drive the 3 and 4 door. they are 2 different platforms from what I have heard (i.e. pretty much different cars from top to bottom.)

drove Fireman32's yaris for a 4 hr stint on the way to SC polkfest last year. cool little car man. I'd do it as a daily driver with no probs whatsoever.

[appadv]

needs notwithstanding, test drive the 3 and 4 door. they are 2 different platforms from what I have heard (i.e. pretty much different cars from top to bottom.)

drove Fireman32's yaris for a 4 hr stint on the way to SC polkfest last year. cool little car man. I'd do it as a daily driver with no probs whatsoever.

Thanks, I'll have my dad check out the Toyota Yaris. I'm just leaning towards the 4-door version because if you need to get in/out of the rear seat frequently the 2-door Yaris isn't as practical.