Multi-channel Amp Opinions?

[phuz]

I'm shopping for a 5 or more channel amp. I've been looking at Rotel and Parasound mostly.

What are you using? What would you recommend for less than $1000? Or even better less than $700?

Thanks in advance.

[HBombToo]

How much power per channel are you looking for?

I run the Outlaw 770 which is 7 channel @ 200 W per Channel but it cost me almost 2K and there 5 channel is at 1300 clams.

[tonyv1]

Jeff's Sound Value has an Adcom GFA-7400 5x100W for $695.
One left only.
http://www.jeffssoundvalues.com/Inventory/Video.htm

[Steve@3dai]

Drool over this baby right here.

http://www.arcam.co.uk/fmj/products/P7.html

240w at 4 ohms. Each channel is turned on by itself at start up.

I will have it, oh yes, I will.

[HBombToo]

Whats the price tag on that puppy Steve?

[phuz]

Yeah I can get the adcom localy for $700. Another local place has the Parasound HCA-855A for $600 (125w x5 @ 4ohms - all channels driven) - I will probably go with the parasound as long as it sounds good. Or if I'm feeling really nutty, I can get a Rotel that does about 200w x5 @4 a.c.d. for about $900.

I just wanted to see what everyone else thought. Keep the reponses coming. :)

Steve. Yeah man, go right ahead. You do that. Are you selling a kidney to buy that thing? ;)

[Steve@3dai]

HBomb, dunno, more than likely $2000 or more. The FMJ stuff is VERY pricey.

The DiVA DV88 DVD Player (in progressive scan) goes just shy of $2000 I believe. The FMJ line is better than that DiVA line if that gives you an idea ;)

[mantis]

I'm all about Rotel.........RMB1075.......210 at 4 ohm load.......super badass amp.999.99 retail, but shop around maybe you can get a good deal.........

If you save your pennies up........you could really take it out and get the RMB1095....330 at 4 ohm load........it even got casters on the back of it due to how heavy it is.I drool over it all the time.........

The Adcom sounds like a good deal........there amps sound good...I like em.

[gidrah]

Have you considered 3 stereo amps? You'd have 6 channels and be able to upgrade via bridging or running the 6th channel in the future.

[phuz]

Originally posted by gidrah
Have you considered 3 stereo amps? You'd have 6 channels and be able to upgrade via bridging or running the 6th channel in the future.

I have. I already have a rotel 2ch amp, but finding matching amps locally would be just as costly as getting a 5ch amp. I may end up getting a Rotel 6ch amp and bridging it into 3 to power the center and rear channels. Space is also another (small) concern.

I'm just trying to cover all bases, and see what others had to say. Keep it coming. :)

Dan, you said that bridging is not a good idea. Care to explain a bit? You said that it effects the sound quality?

[mantis]

Can't speak from experience bud,only from what some of my audiophile buddies have told me.I never tried it,I don't see the need.

think about the way your 990bx runs the lsi 15's.....do you feel the need for more power?Maybe since you got Lsi,try bi amping instead......

[jmierzur]

I have three Rotel amps; RB-980BX, RMB-1075, RB-956BX. The 980 is used for the main channels and the 1075 is used for surround channels.

I auditioned the RMB-1066 (bridged) against the RMB-1075 as I (like you) was looking for three additional channels. I decided on the 1075 based on my listening tests as well I would have two extra channels for future/current formats (7.1). The 956 will be used for extra channels (10.2 if it becomes a reality) or in a seperate system.

You should be able to mate the 990 with the 1075 by adjusting the levels on your surround processor to balance the sound. Regardless, any multi-channel system requires balancing.

If I could, I would upgrade my 980 to a 1080 (or 990) for its superior sonic qualities with two-channel audio. This won't happen due to the wife factor and the fact that this would be a waste of money as the 980 is a great amp, better than I ever expected when I purchased it.

My best advice is to go to your local retailer and test the combinations for yourself. Try using a 1080 for the mains and the 1075 and 1066 for surround channels. Bring a SPL meter to set up the individual channel levels. And above everything else, have fun playing with their toys.

[phuz]

Originally posted by mantis
Can't speak from experience bud,only from what some of my audiophile buddies have told me.I never tried it,I don't see the need.

think about the way your 990bx runs the lsi 15's.....do you feel the need for more power?Maybe since you got Lsi,try bi amping instead......

I don't need any more power for my mains. :)

I just might try bi-amping. The thing is, one of the amps I'm looking at is a used Rotel - that is rated 40wpc x6 @ 8ohms. So we could estimate 80wpc @ 4ohms for the LSi. The only reason I was thinking of bridging was to add more power to the center and rear to make them closer to the 330wpc that my mains are getting. Thats logical and reasonable right? For some reason having my mains at 330wpc and my center/rear channels at 80wpc bugs me. :p

When/if I get this Rotell 6ch amp I'll try bi-amping, bridging, etc. and post some of my opinions.

[phuz]

Originally posted by jmierzur
I have three Rotel amps; RB-980BX, RMB-1075, RB-956BX. The 980 is used for the main channels and the 1075 is used for surround channels.



What are you doing with the RB-956BX? Wanna sell it? :)

Let me clear some stuff up. The reason I posted this was to help me decide on what NEW 5ch amp to get to power my whole main system. I could then use the Rotel for a seperate 2ch system or something.

I created another thread about bridging out of curiosity and because I found a decent deal on a used rotel 6ch that would mate well with my current amp.

Sorry bout the confusion, I'm still delerious from the flu and medicine. :(

The Outlaw and Arcam are way out of my price range. NEW Rotel is on the high end of my range but used Rotel is optimal, and Parasound is just about in the middle... so if I do get a NEW amp it will most likely be the Parasound - if I go used, it'll be this Rotel that I've had my eye on.

This will all be done in a week or two. I'll let you all know when it happens. ;) Thanks a bunch for the ideas and info.

[jmierzur]

Further info.

I have one dedicated audio room. This room was built for audio/HT only. I have no plans on having two rooms for different formats. My listening habits are 97% / 3% in favour of two-channel audio.

My system is primarly a two-channel system. I have optimized my listening environment for this format. Period. The RB-980BX powers my LSi9 and I also have two Def Tech subs (instead of buying the LSi15). I have a RC-980BX pre-amp to go along with this.

Multi-channel 'what ever' format is a secondary after thought. I have a Sony SDP-800E dedicated surround pre-amp/processor that only accepts multi-channel sources.

These two pre amps are not going anywhere until I can afford a very good pre-amp that is excellent in two-channel and has multi-channel capabilities. I have to switch the ICs between pre-amps for the mail speakers (RB-980BX -> LSi9) to listen to the respective sources. I can live with that for now.

The 956 is an under powered unit (nor do I think that it could drive the LSi series) that is not of the same calibre as the 980 or 990. The 1066 bridged was very good. The 1075 was even better. That is why I have a 1075. If I had the choice again, I would not buy a 956. But I will keep the 956 for the time being for previously stated uses.

Why would you want to power the LSi15's with a multi-channel amp (Rotel or Parasound) when you have the 990?? Are you planning on buying another pair of LSi15's for your 'seperate 2ch system or something' application?

I assume that the HK receiver is being used as a pre-amp for the 990 and the surround channels are being driven by the HK. After you choose your amp(s) for the system, your next upgrade could be a quality pre-amp (two and multi channel) instead of trying to build another system. With a new pre-amp, you amp(s)/speakers will really begin to show what they are capable of.

Just some thoughts for you to think about.

[mantis]

Phuz,
that would bug me as well.I bet the difference will be great when dynamic passages happen.I did this one job with Martin Logan and Proceed......the main amp for the Prodigy's was 200wattsx2......the 5 channel amp was 100watts by 5...now when I calibrated the system,the main amps/speakers overpowered the system when dynamic range kicked in.I ran the system for 3 days...it was a big job.At the end of the 3rd daythere,I just couldn't find a happy medium for the balance to work..............running different wattage amps for channels of a home theater isn't the way to go.....I'd look into a multichannel amp that match's the 990........it would be the rmb1090....it's 330 at 4ohm load.......in that room you got now.,........it would be completely overkill.You would never use the amp.Are you going 7 channel in your room dude??????If not look into the rmb1075.You will have 210 watts per channel for 5 channels..I think this is the way to go.Sell the 990 or use it in another room.......something......you could get a couple of bucks out of it....then apply that to the new amp........If you go with that used amp........maybe we could do a swap...with cash or something..I could hook you up with my RB960bx.it's 60 watts into an 8 ohm load and 110 into a 4 ohm load........it's a killer little amp.I got a rc-971 stereo preamp I will be getting rid of soon....so lets talk and maybe we can get to something here.

[RuSsMaN]

Phuz, I've seen your 8x8 (or whatever) listening area, you will be more than fine going with the 6ch amp, either bi-amped or bridged on the center/rears (6 of one, half a dozen etc etc).

I think with your HK, you can even tweek it out in a larger room (when you guys go down on a house), do NOT sweat it, just go for it. I look forward to another visit and I am MORE than happy to help you get your placement/tweek on if need be. (even though you seem like a fairly cerebral dude, that knows what he wants)......

Dynamic range? Give me an effin break. The amps in question all have plenty of headroom. You do NOT need equal power throughout the rig.

Tell ya what, if you don't dig it, I'll take it off your hands + 20%,,,,,,and pick it up in person.

Just effin do it, bottom line.

Cheers,
Rooster

[phuz]

jmierzur:

My two paths are this. My primary reason/goal for this is to power all 5 of my LSi speakers with good clean matching power amps (not my HK receiver/Rotel mix) - not necessarily exact matching wattage, just matching brand(s).

1. Buy a new 5ch amp (Rotel/Parasound/Other?) to power all 5 speakers. 1 amp, 5 channels, all done. I was only considering this at first, until I found a used Rotel 956 - which has created #2.

2. Buy a used Rotel 6ch amp. Bridge that amp into 3 channels for the center and rear channels, and keep the RB-990 on the mains (LSi 15). The 956 bridged into 3 channels will give me somewhere around 150-175wpc @ 4ohms - how can that not be enough for center/rear? 2 amps, 5+ channels, matching sound.

This option is cheaper, but takes up much more space because of the two amp factor. I can deal with that, I'm gettin a nice new a/v rack soon. ;)

I know the 956 isn't near the 980 or 990, but what makes you say it can't drive the LSi series? For some reason I really want to disagree with you. :) I could understand if you meant using only the 965 unbridged.

The difference in my choice has a huge effect on the overall outcome. Not only sound wise, but future upgrades as well as completion date. I could have my system completed (sans sub) in a week or so if I picked up the used Rotel 6ch. If I decide to go with a new amp, especially something $900+, that could mean a completion date somewhere in the first quarter next year.

This also must be what I call a '10 year system' meaning once I get this one done, thats it for a while.

Mantis: I doubt I'll ever go to a 6.1 or 7.1 system. At least not for a long long while. I don't need it, and frankly I think it's complete overkill. heh Whats this swap you are talking about? I like the stuff you have, but it's going to take a lot to get me to part with the 990, seriously. I'm really leaning towards getting the used 956 for the center and rear, and keeping the 990 on the mains for both HT and 2ch.

Russman: Once again the logic comes through. I really think you are right. I'm going to try and pick up that 956 this weekend and try bi-amping and bridging etc. to see what results I get.

Sorry for all the confusion guys. :) This seems to have gotten all FUBAR somehow. Thanks for all the input.

Back to the original question: Any other suggestions on quality 5ch amps between $500 and $1000?

[Steve@3dai]

Phuz, have you spoke with Rice over at Audio Systems? They might have something that would fit your budget like a NAD or something.

[jmierzur]

Originally posted by phuz

This also must be what I call a '10 year system' meaning once I get this one done, thats it for a while.


Sorry, my reply infers that I have 'been there and done that' as the saying goes, regarding your #2 option.

If this is a '10 year system', what is a few months wait. My 1075 sat in the box for one year before it was ever opened and used in the new audio room. That was part of my '10 year plan' and is revised as required.

You never mentioned your listening habits or the important characteristics you are looking for. Call Rotel for their comments on the 956 driving a 4 ohm load in bridged mode.

My apologies for getting your post foobared. This is an important decision (any transaction against your hard earned money is) and I was trying to relate MY experiences. I will not reply again.


Regards.

Interesting articles (http://www.sound.westhost.com/articles.htm)

[phuz]

[i]

My apologies for getting your post foobared. This is an important decision (any transaction against your hard earned money is) and I was trying to relate MY experiences. I will not reply again.

[/B]

Hey it was in no way your fault! and there is no need to apologize. I appreciate the responses very much, thank you!

[mantis]

Russ,
after you listen to 2 different amps in a home theater system....hear one over power the other.....then tell me it doesn't effin matter.....your an ass......

Phuz,
I'm not knocking what you want to do......go for it and have fun.......I have no more to say on this matter.........I do this shit every freaking day and I know exactly what it sounds like when you mix and match power amps........it sucks....even at a Proceed and Matrin Level...........your on your own on this one......I give up.....

[TroyD]

Oh please Dan, gimmie a friggin break.......

You REALLY don't believe all that do you? There is no reason on earth why you can use different rated amps on different channels. IF (and this is a big IF) that all speakers were of the same efficiency AND used the exact same amount of power, I MIGHT be able to swallow Dan's argument. However it's just not the case. Shit, using a 50 wpc receiver, how many times has anyone clipped it? The way I see it, and I've done it, as long as you aren't getting into a situation where you are clipping an amp, you can work around using different amps. Figure, that the fronts use more juice than the center or the rears and the center more than the rears....see, where I am going? Bottom line, it isn't imperative that all your amps are of equal rating.

BDT

[HBombToo]

Clipping IS most important!

[TroyD]

A more diplomatic way of putting it would be, there are more factors involve than just saying equal amps for each channel. If that were the case, why have powered towers or even subs for that matter?

BDT

[HBombToo]

i have given my PSW350 a workout. Internal Amp @ 100Watts with no available specs from Polk vrs Outlaw 770 and a rating of 200W into 8 ohms. I have convinced myself that inductance plays a mojor role regarding wire and the .1 channel. The .1 should realize an efficiecy increase using the coax sub out connection and the internal Amp to the sub.

just my 2c's


Is that smell from the Beer?

[TroyD]

You don't have to get all scientific on me, baby, we can just talk....

BDT

[HBombToo]

okaaaaa.... i apologize.

with that being said... I don't like speaker out of the receiver and into the Sub for my .1 channel.

[mantis]

Tory give you a break????whatever dude......

I have heard time and time again......different dynamic range passes from many different system when using different amps....

I have no desire to even begin to attemp to convince you otherwise......you guys want to use your systems that way????Mine will not be configured in that manner.

If you even had an idea about dynamic range and how each channel is effected by this you would talk out your butt hole.

After you setup 1/100000's of the amount of theater's I have setup,talk to me...........Nieve is a dominate factor on this post.

[HBombToo]

[i]If you even had an idea about dynamic range and how each channel is effected by this you would talk out your butt hole. [/B]:rolleyes:

i'm not sure how to respond...

trashed is the HBomb

[RuSsMaN]

Blah blah blah, was that number 100,000? Man, thats a lot of theaters.

Cheers,
Rooster

[TroyD]

Oversimplification Dan. Period. IF all channels used the EXACT same amount of juice at the same time, all the time, I MIGHT by your argument. There are just too many variables in the chain to make a blanket statement like that. PLUS, people have been bi-amping with different amps for many years (before you were an itch in your daddy's pants) with pleasant results. I see your concerns but, again, I have a little real world testing on my side to there cochese and can say that it can and will work.

BDT

[mantis]

OK,
I see what you saying......you don't really have a anal opnion on how home theater should be carefully setup.....thats cool.

So lets go to your world.....if I wanted to use monoblocks for a 2 channel stereo system.....could I use a 100 watt amp for the left channel and a 250 watt amp for the right channel?Music listening doesn't always play the same exact things at the same exact times.So then with that logic,I could pull this off and never know the difference.....it should work.Am I off base here?

Now to add to the amp thing, both amps I would use in this setup would be from the same company,so the 2 amps at least wouldn't sound completely different.

I ask this only because I'm just trying to figure out your logic.....not a pissing match as this seems to be going this way.....I say eff the pissing match and lets talk about unequal power for a moment.

As I posted before,
I have ran into the unequal power situation before....many times in fact.The one time that really sticks out,is the high end theater I did with Martin Logan and Proceed.7.1 setup.The main channel speakers where ran off a 250watt Proceed amp,and the center and rears where run off a 100watt 5channel amp.Now when running alot of different scenes from movies I know extremely well,I noticed the main channels overpowering the system when dynamic condisions occur....example.....the Pod racer scene from Star Wars EP1.......when the pods race around the room,when the come out of right or left channel main speaker,spl hit 107db....when the same exact moving sound entered the center,it fell off to 98db,then in the rears,it fell off to 99 db.So what I'm saying is ,it was noticable.At first I wasn't aware of the unequal power,It was my very first time dealing with Proceed.I didn't know much about there power rating's, then I researched it, and found what I found.
What I will leave you with is I personally heard a big difference in that system,I was real hard pressd to balance the system,The SPL meter/s I was using,I basically wanted to throw it out the window.
Now the reason the main amp was different then the 5 channel amp,as I was told was the owner wanted more power to drive the main speakers for 2 channel listening......thats fine as he owned Martin Logan Prodigy's.But in 7.1 mode for home theater,doing so made his system suffer.He should have used equal power all the way around.......figure this out, he was a tigh wad and tried to cut corners in his system where possible....shit the entire system was over 60 grand not including the room,theater chairs etc........I don't get it.
On a smaller level I noticed similar results in my system of past.I owned 2 different power amps and it sounded different when running home theater.My last receiver was a Denon avr3801....even when taking my Lsi 15's out of the picture,replaceing them with the rt1000p's in my old 7.1rt system(cs400i,rt35i's,fx/500's,psw450)using my Rotel amp on the mains messed up the experience.......for me that is........I had to run the rt1000p's off the Denon's amps and everything was seemless again.....some of the change I believe to me that the Rotel sounded completely different then the Denon's amps........now not just Dynamic differences....but Tonal as well....So....thats what I'm talking about.
Peace.....:)

O just thought of something.........the front 3 channels......what's your thoughts of at least keeping them all the same power....

[TroyD]

Ok, I hadn't really considered the monoblock thing but I can address that too. I'm assuming that the corresponding L/R channels are running on the same amp.

Now, as far as your monoblock theory, it COULD work. Let's say you have a reasonably efficient pair of speakers, 2ch, how much juice do you think they are really going to use? I would say that the 100wpc amp would be sufficient in terms of power and headroom under normal conditions. That being said, under NORMAL listening conditions (assuming the amps were voiced similarly) that you probably would never know the difference. Matter of fact, George's bridged Carver's are of different power ratings (granted it's a small amount) and I can tell you that you can't tell one from the other.

No pissing contest Dan, I just don't agree with your opinion. All of your channels don't require the same amount of power. As I said, as long as you aren't clipping the amp and are operating within it's designed capabilities, it will work.

As far as the front three channels, it's not necessary. I've used a 350wpc amp for my fronts and a 140wpc amp to biamp my center and got stellar results.

BDT

[TroyD]

Ok, I finally was able to wade through the ML / Proceed thing........I think the culprit in this case is the speakers rather than the amp. Just a guess but, In my case, when I was using the DQ's as mains in HT before I had "The Shane" up and running, I would run in to some situations sort of like you describe. I would attribute that more to the speakers not matching in terms of efficiency than I would the amps. Unless, of course the amp was clipping. That's just my opinion though.

BDT

[mantis]

Tory....I 'll give you this....you didn't say blah blah blah and add nothing to this topic.......I respect that.

The Martin system was matched all speaker where 4 ohm.Martin Logan are one of the most demanding speakers I had ever seem....they can suck the life right out of an amp....sorta like your DQ-10's can..you need alot of power to get them to go.Martin loagan speakers dip down in the 1 ohm load alot.....

[TroyD]

That being the case, then the amp wasn't up to the task. I've stipulated all along that as long as the amp isn't being overtasked. That's just a case of not having enough power.

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

Hey, I made my opinion on the matter public, then you jumped the shark with Resume quotes and some brand-name tossing.....

Cheers,
Russ

[mantis]

O yes Russ I did read your opnion on this topic.....I read blah blah blah blah blah.......

[Eddie624]

My dad can kick your dads ass!!! So there

[Frank Z]

Eddie624,
I see that you have only posted 69 times, But I like you goddammit!

[jmierzur]

Manual for Rotel RB-956AX (http://rotel.com/pdfs/manuals/rb956AX.pdf)

[jmierzur]

Didn't know the older manuals were online.

Rotel RB-956AX (http://rotel.com/pdfs/manuals/rb956AX.pdf)