4WD Advise Requested

[Sansui]

Before the first of the year I'm going to get a four wheel drive SUV type of car. The problem is that I don't know anything about them. I've just started doing my homework and realized that the Toyota Rav4 is about the size and price range I'm interested in. I'm not to "hot" on whatever Ford is selling because of the recent "tire track record".

With the snows coming in January I don't want to be in a position where my Cavalier can't get me where I might need to go. I also feel that I'll be safer driving in snow/ice type of weather. I will not be "climbing mountains" or anything like that with this car, road driving only.

I'm looking for info on makes/models and what's good or bad about those models.

Would it be better for me to just write a check for it or get a loan and make payments?

Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated!

[MillerLiteScott]

Sansui,

I drove the Ford Edge AWD about two weeks ago as a loaner car while my truck was in for service and I thought it was a nice and suprisingly sporty vehicle.

Scott

[Serendipity]

I am in the same situation. Looking for some type of 4WD car just for when it snows here.

Check out this thread:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59303&highlight=Jeeps

[BaggedLancer]

If you are looking for an AWD car.....check out the Infiniti g35x, I drove mine through last winter with no issues.....it has the sportronic transmission that allows you shift without a clutch, snow mode, and a variable control differential for situations. I never had a problem and I commute 1 hour each way to work.

You can probably pick up a nice one off a lease in the 20's range. Brand new they are about 35 out the door.

Also, if that is too pricey, look into the Ford Fusion(i think thats it) AWD.....someone I know just got one, great car for the money and it fits your need for AWD.

[ND13]

Ford fixed it's(Firestone's) "tire issue" many years ago. Their Fusion and new Taurus AWDs are excellent vehicles.

When it comes to "All-Wheel Drive" cars, it's really hard to overlook Subaru and Audi. Infiniti makes a good awd system, too.

[BaggedLancer]

When it comes to "All-Wheel Drive" cars, it's really hard to overlook Subaru and Audi. Infiniti makes a good awd system, too.

Totally forgot about those 2. Great cars. I think bobman has a Subaru Forester or Outback, not sure which. Might want to talk to him, I'm pretty sure he like it though.

As for the Audi, I had the opportunity to drive a pretty modified 2003 Audi S4 2 winters ago and all I can say is wow, that car is responsive. I would have bought one if I could afford the repairs and maintenance on it.

[ND13]

IMO, Subaru is overlooked WAAAAAY too often. They make rock solid cars and are a blast to drive. I'd just as soon own a Subaru as any other Japanese or Asian made car out there.

Audi, on the other hand, are lovely vehicles, with arguably the finest interiors ever. An S6 is one of my faves. Their awd system is "almost" flawless.

[BaggedLancer]

IMO, Subaru is overlooked WAAAAAY too often. They make rock solid cars and are a blast to drive. I'd just as soon own a Subaru as any other Japanese or Asian made car out there.

Audi, on the other hand, are lovely vehicles, with arguably the finest interiors ever. An S6 is one of my faves. Their awd system is "almost" flawless.


The reason Subaru gets overlooked is prior to the WRX hype people viewed Subaru has having a really bad reputation. Remember the ones from the early 90's? Those were brutal, all sorts of problems. Subaru really fixed up their act, used the WRC Rally's as marketing advantages and now they are with the rest of the pack.

And yes, I totally agree, Audi has the one of the nicest interiors I've ever been in.

[F1nut]

With the snows coming in January I don't want to be in a position where my Cavalier can't get me where I might need to go. I also feel that I'll be safer driving in snow/ice type of weather. I will not be "climbing mountains" or anything like that with this car, road driving only.


Just a few thoughts from someone with a lot of on road/off road 4WD experience. It doesn't snow that much in the Baltimore area and when it does, the plows get the roads cleaned off PDQ. If it's iced up out there, 4WD offers zero advantage. 4WD vehicles handle differently than 2WD cars and an inexperienced driver can get into trouble very quickly. It doesn't matter what you are driving, they all stop the same. Let me repeat that, they all stop the same.

In your case, I think an AWD car makes more sense. It'll get you out of the neighborhood before the plows come thru, handles like a regular car and has a low center of gravity making it safer, which seems to be a concern of yours. Of course, they all stop the same.

[Willow]

We currently have a Nissan Xtrail, it's great but ...the best thing for winter/snow are proper tires, of which I am going to buy this weekend.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/071122/canada/canada_weather_storm

The pic is what I see from my desk..No I didn't take it.

[ben62670]

I'm not to "hot" on whatever Ford is selling because of the recent "tire track record".


Without getting into a Ford... debate you wouldn't by a Ford because of a bad line of Firestone tires that came out like 6 years ago:confused:

[petrym]

In the 'burbs and city you really don't *need* a 4WD, it's bit better for accelerating, but I'll repeat and paraphrase what F1Nut said - it's not 4WStop.

[ben62670]

I have used 4WD a lot. It absolutely helps stop in very slippery conditions. If your front, and rear tires are tied together (4WD) it works for deceleration to. It does not mean drive like an idiot, but your fronts won't lock up before your rears, and your rears won't lock up before your front's. Try descending a steep slippery hill just once in 4WD, and then try it in 2WD you will see what I mean.

[Willow]

In the 'burbs and city you really don't *need* a 4WD, it's bit better for accelerating, but I'll repeat and paraphrase what F1Nut said - it's not 4WStop.


And that is what bother me the most, you see these people speeding along in their Escalades thinking nothing can get in their way then slam on the breaks...you have how many more tons to stop...(nothing against caddy, just first name that came to mind)

[ben62670]

Turning those big beast in 4WD can be tricky too. Just cause you can take off quicker, and stop quicker doesn't mean they can change direction quicker. Sometimes its like a jetski... a little gas can help in deeper snow. I did a lot of driving up in New England in feet of snow.

[disneyjoe7]

Of course, they all stop the same.



Jesse has to be one who drives on ice / snow with a commit like that. I myself don't miss those day's too much, but I'm always amazed on how people who never driven over ice / snow drive when it starts to rain. :rolleyes: :eek:

[Serendipity]

In the 'burbs and city you really don't *need* a 4WD, it's bit better for accelerating, but I'll repeat and paraphrase what F1Nut said - it's not 4WStop.

Sorry for the dumb post, but does this mean a 4WD vehicle's ability to stop is very similar to that of a 2WD, but the main advantage of a 4WD is to "get going" in slippery situations, such as deep snow?

In NY you see a lot of people with RWD cars stuck in deep snow. :(

[Willow]

[QUOTE=appadv;738558]Sorry for the dumb post, but does this mean a 4WD vehicle's ability to stop is very similar to that of a 2WD, but the main advantage of a 4WD is to "get going" in slippery situations, such as deep snow?QUOTE]

Yes, it doesn't help to stop, it's to get you going.

[shawn474]

I bought my wife a subaru outback and she absolutely loves it. I use it often when it snows / ices as I have a 55 mile commute and have never had a problem with it. We love driving it - as a dialy driver and as an AWD when it is needed.

Shawn

[Serendipity]

Yes, it doesn't help to stop, it's to get you going.

Thanks. That's what I'm looking for though, sometimes when you are stuck in deep snow with a 2WD vehicle, you won't get anywhere.

[F1nut]

I have used 4WD a lot. It absolutely helps stop in very slippery conditions. If your front, and rear tires are tied together (4WD) it works for deceleration to. It does not mean drive like an idiot, but your fronts won't lock up before your rears, and your rears won't lock up before your front's. Try descending a steep slippery hill just once in 4WD, and then try it in 2WD you will see what I mean.


I know what you're trying to say and agree IF you're just gearing down, but once you hit the brakes, all bets are off. The brakes can and will lock up regardless.

[Serendipity]

I know what you're trying to say and agree IF you're just gearing down, but once you hit the brakes, all bets are off. The brakes can and will lock up regardless.

Is this with a manual transmission?

Or do you just put your automatic gearbox in "2" or "L"? How much does that help on a slippery surface?

[treitz3]

Would it be better for me to just write a check for it or get a loan and make payments?
Hi Sansui, to answer this question see if you can get zero percent financing. Take the $$$ you were going to spend paying cash for the vehicle and wrap it up into a high yield CD, savings account or whatever the best option for you may be which might include keeping the dough where it is.

[F1nut]

Is this with a manual transmission?

Autos gear down all by themselves or you can manually downshift, if so inclined.


Or do you just put your automatic gearbox in "2" or "L"? How much does that help on a slippery surface?


For getting going, a lower gear ratio will provide more torque and prevent you jumping into a higher gear, thereby helping to prevent wheel spin. For stopping, by dropping into a lower gear you are limiting the rpm's and using the engine as a braking device, in effect, slowing down the vehicle without using the brakes.

[Sansui]

In your case, I think an AWD car makes more sense. It'll get you out of the neighborhood before the plows come thru, handles like a regular car and has a low center of gravity making it safer, which seems to be a concern of yours. Of course, they all stop the same.

Shows how much I know about these "new" type of cars. Just before reading this thread I tried to edit "4WD Advise" to AWD Advise" and this program only allows me to edit the message, not the title.

With my changed job responsibilities I may have to "roll" regardless of what back street conditions are. Many times it seems Balto. City forgets our residential street exists. :(

[Sansui]

Hi Sansui, to answer this question see if you can get zero percent financing. Take the $$$ you were going to spend paying cash for the vehicle and wrap it up into a high yield CD, savings account or whatever the best option for you may be which might include keeping the dough where it is.

You're talking a foreign language to me about this financial stuff. I'll run this by my tax now (now financial adviser) next week.

Wouldn't 0% financing mean a loan where the dealer makes no money other than just the sale of the car? If so I'm guessing there's not many dealers that do that.

So much to learn, so little time...

[MillerLiteScott]

Many times it seems Balto. City forgets our residential street exists. :(


Call Martin or Sheila. Problem solved.:D

[Serendipity]

Autos gear down all by themselves or you can manually downshift, if so inclined.



For getting going, a lower gear ratio will provide more torque and prevent you jumping into a higher gear, thereby helping to prevent wheel spin. For stopping, by dropping into a lower gear you are limiting the rpm's and using the engine as a braking device, in effect, slowing down the vehicle without using the brakes.

OK, I see. :)

[irishaz]

+1 for Subaru. I had an Outback for a few years and it was outstanding in the snow. F1 is right though, once you hit the ice, all bets are off. Unless you have chains, you're probably heading for the ditch.

[Serendipity]

+1 for Subaru. I had an Outback for a few years and it was outstanding in the snow. F1 is right though, once you hit the ice, all bets are off. Unless you have chains, you're probably heading for the ditch.

Would the Subaru Impreza AWD be a good choice too?

[irishaz]

The Subaru Impreza is a great choice in my opinion. They are great vehicles, last forever, and get very good gas mileage.

[Serendipity]

The Subaru Impreza is a great choice in my opinion. They are great vehicles, last forever, and get very good gas mileage.

25mpg is nice, but I wish they got even better gas mileage.

[Sansui]

+1 for Subaru. I had an Outback for a few years and it was outstanding in the snow. F1 is right though, once you hit the ice, all bets are off. Unless you have chains, you're probably heading for the ditch.

Who knows? Maybe someday "they" will make tires with studs that come out with the push of a button. :D

[Sansui]

Call Martin or Sheila. Problem solved.:D
Martin or Sheila who? :D

[jflail2]

+1 to Audi. Loving mine so far. Can't wait for a good, fresh snowy day :)

[Sansui]

The Subaru Impreza is a great choice in my opinion. They are great vehicles, last forever, and get very good gas mileage.
Looks like I'll have to check out Subaru. I would never have thought about them until I read the replies here.

I wonder why no one has mentioned Chevy, Toyota, Jeep, or Honda. What's up with that? Before asking here I'd heard that Toyota and Honda made real good ones too.

[treitz3]

Wouldn't 0% financing mean a loan where the dealer makes no money other than just the sale of the car? If so I'm guessing there's not many dealers that do that.
Yes, for the first question. Only the finance department looses the big bucks [separate department from the sales floor].

Yes for the second question. Normally the dealers get a kick back [on top of the 3% holdback] and the 0% is an option usually backed by the manufacturer. During this time of year should be a good time to find it. However, keep in mind the dealerships will try to push you into a car that has been on the lot a while, new but maybe a year old [prior year's model] or even a demonstrator model. Keep insisting you want new, or a SEVERE discount off the old inventory.

If the salesman tells you it's only good for last year's model, turn and walk away to another dealership and insist that you are looking for THIS year's model only and nothing less....saying NOTHING about financing. Once the deal for numbers on the purchase of the car you choose have been met, hit them up then and only then [NOT BEFORE] that you want the 0% financing for that car.

It may take some time and frustration, but look at it this way. If you consider it a part time job, with the $$$ you will save and not have to earn, if you will, it could put multiple thousands back into your pocket through the $$$ that you don't give to the dealership. You have them by the balls since you have cash, not the other way around. ;)

[audiobliss]

Looks like I'll have to check out Subaru. I would never have thought about them until I read the replies here.

I wonder why no one has mentioned Chevy, Toyota, Jeep, or Honda. What's up with that? Before asking here I'd heard that Toyota and Honda made real good ones too.



I can't speak to the Honda and Toyota offerings, but I'm not aware of any AWD vehicles from Chevy. They of course have 4WD equipped vehicle, but you can forget gas mileage with them. Basically the same thing with Jeep, I would say.

[Serendipity]

Looks like I'll have to check out Subaru. I would never have thought about them until I read the replies here.

I wonder why no one has mentioned Chevy, Toyota, Jeep, or Honda. What's up with that? Before asking here I'd heard that Toyota and Honda made real good ones too.

I was wondering that too, I asked about Jeep a while ago and it seems that (from what I learneed here) although Jeeps are great vehicles, they are better suited for off-road use and overkill for daily driving.

[BottomFeeder]

I drive a Honda CRV and it's been fantastic. Does great in snow, loads of room, good gas mileage and good acceleration. It's really worth considering.

[ND13]

I was out driving several of Ford's newer lineup yesterday and I was most impressed with the Fusion AWD V6 SEL. It was very quiet, had more than enough power, and handles well byond my expectations. While the new Taurus AWD SEL I drove was very nice, too, I thought the Fusion felt a tad more refined. Had all the amenities and a kick ass factory stereo. I'd seriously consider it if I were in the market for that type of auto.

With that said, I'd love an Audi S6.

[rskarvan]

I was wondering that too, I asked about Jeep a while ago and it seems that (from what I learneed here) although Jeeps are great vehicles, they are better suited for off-road use and overkill for daily driving.

Nobody does 4WD better than Jeep. And, what is wrong with overkill?

[Serendipity]

Nobody does 4WD better than Jeep. And, what is wrong with overkill?

That's what a lot of Polkies said in my "Jeeps" thread...

[Strong Bad]

Call Martin or Sheila. Problem solved.:D

Scott:

Thanks bud, best joke I've heard in a while. I needed a laugh! :D


John

[Sansui]

The Subaru Impreza is a great choice in my opinion. They are great vehicles, last forever, and get very good gas mileage.
Right now the problem I see with Subaru is that none of them have a ground clearance of 8.7". What if we get a 10" to 12" like we've had before?

[Sansui]

Yes, for the first question. Only the finance department looses the big bucks [separate department from the sales floor].
--------------------------------(etc.)-----------------------------
It may take some time and frustration, but look at it this way. If you consider it a part time job, with the $$$ you will save and not have to earn, if you will, it could put multiple thousands back into your pocket through the $$$ that you don't give to the dealership. You have them by the balls since you have cash, not the other way around. ;)
Thank you for your entire reply. It IS appreciated! I didn't even think of the points/suggestions you mentioned.

[Sansui]

I can't speak to the Honda and Toyota offerings, but I'm not aware of any AWD vehicles from Chevy. They of course have 4WD equipped vehicle, but you can forget gas mileage with them. Basically the same thing with Jeep, I would say.
In regards to Chevy, I just figured they had a AWD. Thanks for the info on 4WDs and gas mileage too.

[Sansui]

I drive a Honda CRV and it's been fantastic. Does great in snow, loads of room, good gas mileage and good acceleration. It's really worth considering.
Ground clearance is only 7.3" so how does it handle 10" to 12" snows? I'm "tending" towards a 6 cyl. engine right now.

[Sansui]

Scott:
Thanks bud, best joke I've heard in a while. I needed a laugh! :D
John
I laughed harder when I tried to call them! No answer. I guess they are trying to figure out how to tax us with the amount of snow each one of us will get when it comes. :D

[Sansui]

I give up... What does steering wheels turns (lock to lock) mean? :confused:

I was told not to consider Ford because the bodies rust out to fast. I'm not looking to start a debate or a fight here but I am curious whether it's true or not.

[audiobliss]

Lock to lock for the steering wheel is how many times you have to physically turn the steering wheel to go from turned all the way right to all the way left (or, 'lock to lock').

[Strong Bad]

I laughed harder when I tried to call them! No answer. I guess they are trying to figure out how to tax us with the amount of snow each one of us will get when it comes. :D

HA HA, Snow-Tax. I wouldn't bet against that! :D

Martin was probably too busy patting himself on the back for coming up with the Slots idea. :rolleyes:

Shelia is still trying to figure out how the hell she got elected. :p

Good luck with the vehicle purchase. I bought my Explorer in Feb '04 and have been hoping for a big snow ever since to go crunching through it in 4WD. Coming up for 4 years later and still waiting for the snow...

[rskarvan]

Wouldn't 0% financing mean a loan where the dealer makes no money other than just the sale of the car?

Actually, 0% financing is from the manufacturer (GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc). What they do is pay a flat-fee to the finance company to provide the 0% incentive to the customer. In all reality, its like an internal rebate to GMAC for servicing the loan.

GMAC wins big time. They get all the interest right up front in one big payment from GM. The GMAC's, Ford Credit, Chryseler Credit, are most profitable when financing at 0% - sort of like a big cash infusion from the OEM's.

[ND13]

Zero % interest is in lieu of the rebates. Ford will give the rebates to Ford Motor Credit. Same with GM and GMAC....Chrysler with Chrysler credit. Unless you plan on keeping the car for the full contract, it doesn't always pay to give up, what can be up to $5k or more on certain models, rebates. If you decide to trade that car off in say...2 years, you'll owe quite a bit more than if you would have taken the cash back instead of the 0%.

[Sansui]

Lock to lock for the steering wheel is how many times you have to physically turn the steering wheel to go from turned all the way right to all the way left (or, 'lock to lock').
Understood now, thanks!

[Sansui]

HA HA, Snow-Tax. I wouldn't bet against that! :D

Oh great! I hope they don't read this forum. I might have just given them a new idea! :D

Martin was probably too busy patting himself on the back for coming up with the Slots idea. :rolleyes:

Shelia is still trying to figure out how the hell she got elected. :p
LOL, especially about Shelia. Not into slots but I agree with you. He's probably dislocated his shoulder by now. :D:D


Good luck with the vehicle purchase. I bought my Explorer in Feb '04 and have been hoping for a big snow ever since to go crunching through it in 4WD. Coming up for 4 years later and still waiting for the snow...
I'm never waiting for a big snow...

[F1nut]

Nobody does 4WD better than Jeep. And, what is wrong with overkill?

Nothing's wrong with overkill, that's why my '74 Land Cruiser continued to climb hills, slop thru mud and river ride long after the Jeep boys had to quit.

[Sansui]

Nothing's wrong with overkill, that's why my '74 Land Cruiser continued to climb hills, slop thru mud and river ride long after the Jeep boys had to quit.
I won't be telling that to my sister. She's getting a Jeep to replace her old one. I will, however, keep that in mind. :)

[apphd]

San, Here ia a forum with loads of info http://rav4world.com I have an 07 that I got early spring so not much info on how it is going to handle the snow. We had one small (about 3") of snow/slush that at one point had all the warning bells and lights go off, but it was nothing that I think deserved the AWD to kick in. What I can tell you is: the V6 has lots of good fun to drive/get you out of trouble power. Not race performance but you can merge into heavy traffic with ease. Not sure of the 4 cyl. performance wise. On all highway driving with 3 adults, baby, car seat, and luggage I have done 29 mpg. My daily driving gives me 23 - 25 mpg with the V6. I can also say if you do a lot of city driving the mpg will drop drastically with the 6. The 4 is only rated a little better in the mpg but should see the best city results. As far as ground clearance, you become the plow when it's over your bumper. As long as the snow is not to0 heavy so that it packs under you enough that you plane up on top of it and get hung with your tires off the ground. I have driven 1/2 ton 4 WD PU trucks with more ground clearance and had to plow snow a few times to get home. If I was home I probably would have stayed home. BTW the 4WD, AWD sometimes gets confused on these. You can lock it into 4WD up to about 25 mph. After that it will kick out and just be AWD controlled by the computer with the front wheels the prim. drive and when needed the rear wheels. I think it's a 60% front 40% rear power distribution. I have no big complaints with the car, it actually has lots more room than it looks like from the outside. The Sub. and Honda also deserve a look. Can't say as to the GM and Fords they were not out when I was looking. Just like with audio, decide what you MUST have then do the research, there's lots of info out there. You might also want to try Kelly Blue Book and Edmounds. What's the big deal with 4WD I thought when a couple inches of snow fell down that way everything shut down and there was no place to go even if you could get there. lol and good luck with your new car.

[Sansui]

I drive a Honda CRV and it's been fantastic. Does great in snow, loads of room, good gas mileage and good acceleration. It's really worth considering.
How has it done in a 10" snow? 4 cyl or 6 cyl?

With my 4 cyl. Cavalier, if I have four people in it, it doesn't have the power I feel safe with on a freeway if I need that extra speed all of a sudden.

[Sansui]

San, Here ia a forum with loads of info http://rav4world.com
(etc.)
Just like with audio, decide what you MUST have then do the research, there's lots of info out there. You might also want to try Kelly Blue Book and Edmounds. What's the big deal with 4WD I thought when a couple inches of snow fell down that way everything shut down and there was no place to go even if you could get there. lol and good luck with your new car.

Whew! Lots of info to understand here. Thanks. I'm doing a lot of "internet homework"/research on this! Part of that is asking question here. Due to new job responsibilities, the place I need to respond to are always open.

It's ground clearance is only 7.5". What's the highest amount of fresh falling snow (wet or dry) have you been able to "safely" handle it in?

So far the 4Runner SR5 line is what I'm looking for. Thanks to our new governor our "new car tax" will go up Jan 1st. New cars will cost $700.00 to $900.00 more than they will Dec. 31st. I hope I can have the money in place by then to get whatever I'm going to end up with.

[apphd]

San, as I said in my post I got mine early spring 07 so I have not had much of a chance to test it in snow. I expect to do that some time soon but that will not help you with the $$ time line you are trying to beat. What I can say is I have needed to "plow" through deep snow with other vehicles, some 4WD some not. You will always have the advantage with 4WD. But there will always be limitations to what you can do with anything you drive. Ice, deep snow, deep water etc. I also can say I would not hesitate to try driving through 10" of snow with my RAV. Just not sure how far I would get yet. Ground clearance is more important when off roading to go over hard objects that can damage things down under. IMHO. I have had to deal with driving in crap during the winter my whole life and you develop skills with experience. Those "skills" will have much to do with any vehicles snow ability. The only problem with driving in snow significantly deeper than ground clearance, is when you start packing the snow under you to the point that you end up with your tires off the ground to a point they can no longer dig through the snow for traction. This will depend on many things weight, type of snow, tires, etc. So there is no one answer. When things get to a point that I do not think my vehicle, and my skills can get me there safely, I just stay put. Since your options there are limited, maybe you can find some type of emergency/first responder people in your area and get some info on what they drive. I was picking on you about everything shutting down in your area with a couple inches of snow, but I am not joking when I say probably your biggest concern when you have to roll under those circumstances will be the others on the road with out enough winter skills, bad tires and the lack of enough sense to drive differently than they would on a sunny summer day.

[Serendipity]

I think you would be okay with the 4Runner.

[MillerLiteScott]

I got stuck once driving down a street that had not been driven on but we had 27" of snow. I had to back up through my own tracks. Stock 4X4 F150.
A vehicle will plow through deeper snow than the clearence and your tires also ride on top of several inches of snow.

[Poee7R]

I would say keep the car you have now and look for a late 90's used jeep cherokee classic 4wd and throw some agressive knobbed tires on it.

I used to live in western NC in the smokey mountains, i had a 5 series bmw back then that was absolutely horrible in the snow (RWD). So one day after being snowed in and having to call into work i went out and bought myself a jeep cherokee classic 4wd, with the 4.0 liter 6 cylinder. Well long story short, I went to the local tire place, bought the nastiest looking knobbiest tires they had and never got stuck ever again in countless snow storms etc. When the big full size trucks (F150, 1500's etc) were spinning tires and watching the rear end slide infront of them I just drove by with the biggest shit eating grin that i could muster.

Best of all is i believe I payed around 4k for the jeep so i wasnt worried if i decided to play around and beat it up a little bit.

And keep in mind, whatever you buy probably wont have tires made for snow so that will be a cost factor also. Tall and skinny is the name of that game.


Dave

[Sansui]

San, as I said in my post I got mine early spring 07 so I have not had much of a chance to test it in snow. I expect to do that some time soon but that will not help you with the $$ time line you are trying to beat.
(etc.)
I say probably your biggest concern when you have to roll under those circumstances will be the others on the road with out enough winter skills, bad tires and the lack of enough sense to drive differently than they would on a sunny summer day.
Thank you for the info and your thoughts. They are appreciated! I've lived here for 30 years and the most snow we've gotten at one time is 12". More of the bigger ones have been 8" to 10" so that's why I asked about the 10" snows. Usually it's 3" to 6" or 7" so I'm trying to make sure that I can deal with those amounts "easily". (Idiots on the road = understood.) I've never taken my Cavalier out in a 3" or more snow due to it's ground clearance.

[Sansui]

I think you would be okay with the 4Runner.
I've tried to find a second choice and for what I'm looking for and what the SR5 or SR5 Sport has to offer, there isn't one.

I've talked to three people in parking lots that were leaving or getting into theirs and none of them can come up with a bad thing to say about theirs. I value their "reviews" as much if not more than the "professional" ones.

Most of the "internet gripes" have to do with the gas mileage. I'm not too concerned about that. My `99 Cavalier has only 36,000+ miles on it right now...

The last few days of December and the first week of January a friend of mine in Florida is coming in to visit his family. Just before I met him years ago he was a new car salesman and met me at a local dealer when I bought my Cavalier. What I didn't know until a few days ago is that he was a Toyota new car salesman. He's offered again to go to a local dealer with me to make sure I don't "get taken for a ride". So everything is in place for me to get what I want and at a good deal except for the money...

[Sansui]

I got stuck once driving down a street that had not been driven on but we had 27" of snow. I had to back up through my own tracks. Stock 4X4 F150.
Didn't realize you're only 25 min. from me (near Archbishop Curley High). Was that when we had those three 12" snows within a five day period? I remember a military Hummer got stuck in the intersection next to my house. They called another one to get it on the roll again...


A vehicle will plow through deeper snow than the clearence and your tires also ride on top of several inches of snow.
Understood. I figured it would handle plowing through an inch or two of fresh falling snow without too much trouble.

[Sansui]

I would say keep the car you have now and look for a late 90's used jeep cherokee classic 4wd and throw some agressive knobbed tires on it.
(etc.)
Best of all is i believe I payed around 4k for the jeep so i wasnt worried if i decided to play around and beat it up a little bit.

And keep in mind, whatever you buy probably wont have tires made for snow so that will be a cost factor also. Tall and skinny is the name of that game.

Dave

I'm giving my Cavalier to my son for X-mas. It's only got 36,000+ miles on it and is in perfect condition. I'm need a good all around vehicle so the more aggressive tires would be kind of out of the question for the driving I do. I appreciate your advise though!